00:05:45.700I at one point was working at the New York City Department of Education
00:05:48.760where I had a chance to really take what was instilled in me, you know,
00:05:54.080when I was younger and put it into practice.
00:05:57.360I've always been drawn to supporting the kids who have been the most marginalized.
00:06:01.220And I worked within this office in the DOE that really focused on kids who were significantly off track academically.
00:06:08.640So we're talking about kids who were not going to graduate on time.
00:06:12.100And, you know, many people had frankly written off and most of them were poor black and brown kids who looked, you know, just like me when I was their age.
00:06:21.480And, you know, I had this once in a lifetime opportunity to lead the team that was going to build a first of its kind high school focused on software engineering.
00:06:31.220But it was also this incredible moment because this school, as intended, as folks came together and believed should be built, was going to be what we call a quote unquote screen school.
00:06:42.380And they very much wanted to be the school where you would test in.
00:06:46.720And, you know, as an educator, I knew what this was going to look like.
00:06:51.400Relying on test scores would mean that for our most marginalized students, for our kids of color, black and brown kids, they were not going to have the advantage here.
00:07:00.280And we know the reasons for that poverty, disinvestment in low income neighborhoods, and certainly racial bias and testing. And, you know, as I was a senior leader at the time, but relatively new in my journey, I knew that this was going to be risky for me, but I somehow knew in my spirit that I would have to fight against screening and rally support for opening this school to any kid.
00:07:25.720And it didn't matter if this was going to disrupt the notions that our key stakeholders held, right? Venture capitalists and tech entrepreneurs who were keen on having this school look a certain way. And today, I'm just so proud that any young person in New York City interested in computer science has a chance to attend the Academy for Software Engineering.
00:07:46.660And for the kids who are there, 95% of them are graduating on time. And Bridget, you know, getting that school off the ground was absolutely one of my proudest accomplishments as an educator, even to this day, leading girls who code. But it, you know, was also a powerful lesson that you always have to exist somehow at the intersection of opportunity and bravery.
00:08:09.040And if you get a shot to disrupt the status quo, you have to take it. And, you know, I could have answered this question really succinctly and just said it was during the pandemic I took this job when our founder, Rashma Sajani, came to me and said, it's time.
00:08:24.520Um, but I wanted to give you some of the color that shaped why I said yes during a pandemic
00:08:45.740I, she could never in her wildest dreams have imagined that I would be doing what I'm doing
00:08:50.840Now, working toward lifting up all these young people and giving them opportunity, all of those experiences, as I just told you, be it the New York City Department of Education or other things when I was a teacher, all these milestones led me to this moment, you know, saying yes to being CEO.
00:09:10.000And since we launched this organization in 2012, we've reached 500,000 students with our programming, 115,000 of whom are college and workforce age, you know, young women and non-binary students.
00:09:24.740And, you know, what fuels me to do this work every day is that I know that when we address
00:09:30.220this growing gender gap in tech, which is very much our mission, we're empowering young
00:09:35.860people, this next generation, especially those who have been overlooked, to seek out the
00:09:41.580thriving and exciting careers of the future, because we know that it's going to afford
00:09:46.040them this improved quality of life and upward mobility that has been elusive to far too
00:09:52.160And we are so fond of that saying, I'm sure you've heard it, if you can see it, you can be it. But if you can't see it, you can't be it. And I know that Girls Who Code is doing so much of the work of helping young women and non-binary folks see themselves in positions and rooms and spaces that maybe they haven't really been shown before.
00:10:12.760And so when when girls who code books and programming are then not included in school curriculums or outright banned, like we know happened in some school districts, it's a problem, not just because, you know, you're you're banning this content, which you find like, quote, controversial, but also because it it creates a situation where I think it sends a message that there's something wrong with disrupting that status quo.
00:10:40.480about what rooms women and non-binary people can find themselves in.
00:10:44.760Yeah, Bridget, you've said that so well. It's frightening, right? Like, as you say it,
00:10:49.320even though we've been going through this since we learned of the book ban, I still feel like
00:10:55.840such, you know, chills and a sense of disbelief when you, you know, break it down that way.
00:11:03.160To say that I was unsettled by the news would be an understatement. And, you know, you talked about
00:11:09.080what it meant to not be represented. I might be the CEO of Girls Who Code, this incredible
00:11:16.820nonprofit, but I'm also an educator and a mother. And we know how transformative books can be for
00:11:24.940young people. I remember when my daughter, she was much younger than, she's actually applying
00:11:30.320for high school now, when our fiction series came out. And she looked at one of the covers and she
00:11:37.420said, mom, there's a brown girl on the cover. Now, granted, I don't remember exactly what year
00:11:43.820that was, but to think that my daughter in this modern era would be excited about that representation
00:11:49.680is an indication of how scarce it is for a brown girl, a black girl, you know, a girl wearing a
00:11:59.160hijab, you know, a student who's non-binary, a student who's differently able to see themselves
00:12:04.620represented in books, in media. And, you know, books can open up so many doors, right? We're
00:12:11.660talking about essential life skills, learning about yourself, the world around you, your
00:12:15.720possibilities, what you can be. And so when this banning of our books happened, you know, it was
00:12:24.020a setback for all the reasons that you just said, Bridget. We're talking about a setback in terms of
00:12:30.420our fight for an equitable, safe, and diverse world. We always say at Girls Who Code, as you
00:12:39.120said, you can't be what you can't see. We say it all the time. Because when it comes to tech in
00:12:46.300particular, our girls, our young women, our non-binary students do not see themselves0.93
00:12:52.100represented in the ways that they should. And when we silence or ignore marginalized groups,
00:12:58.880we outwardly tell them that they don't matter that their stories don't matter and you know0.98
00:13:05.580we know this to be true but if you ask a girl or if we think about how we came up in school
00:13:11.040we learned you know in school and through culture about the Bill Gates of the world Mark Zuckerberg
00:13:17.500Albert Einstein Neil Armstrong if we go back but when if you ask your girls how many of them have
00:13:23.780heard of katherine johnson or mary jackson or grace hopper or gene bartick or ada lovelace
00:13:29.220they're looking at you like what like what are you talking about these incredible pioneers who
00:13:36.260made enormous contributions to the field but yet the cultural representations that have defined
00:13:43.420tech since the 1980s you know completely diminish and ignore those incredible contributions and it
00:13:51.460was there was a certain amount of intentionality there. And so we're counteracting these powerful
00:13:56.460cultural stereotypes and images that tell our girls and young women that a programmer looks
00:14:04.640like a boy in a hoodie, right? Alone in a basement or some maniac running a company in Silicon Valley.
00:14:11.540It's important for little girls to see themselves reflected in the math, sciences,
00:14:15.740and technologies. According to research from the Gina Davis Institute on Gender and Media,0.85
00:14:21.120kids implicitly start thinking of technology as a male pursuit as early as age seven,
00:14:26.360a bias that continues well into adulthood.
00:14:29.260This is exactly the kind of bias that Girls Who Code is combating.0.59
00:14:33.240They're helping a new generation of little ones get excited about technology1.00
00:14:36.680and see themselves reflected in it through initiatives like Doja Code,
00:14:41.840a new partnership with Doja Cat that lets listeners engage with her music videos entirely through code.0.98
00:14:47.940Before girls are even double digits, before they're even 10, they've internalized these cultural touchstones.0.98
00:14:54.520And these are beliefs that end up resonating with them throughout their entire lives.0.51
00:14:59.240Elementary school, middle school, high school, college, and even into the workforce.0.99
00:15:04.240And so that's why in terms of what we do at Girls Who Code, we make sure that we're putting forward women in tech spotlights.
00:15:12.280We make sure that we're doing things like what you've seen launching the world's first
00:15:16.720codable music video with Doja Cat, helping girls to understand that it's not some crazy
00:15:21.820binary where you either want to make money or you want to lift up your community, that
00:15:26.600there's a path for you to bring your passion and creativity and the change you want to
00:15:30.700see in your community and the world by embracing tech.
00:15:33.960Because we know that these powerful binaries are still at play, that you can either be
00:15:39.440some guy going up in space in a rocket ship or using your money to do what you want to
00:15:45.760do, or, you know, as opposed to changing the world.
00:15:49.580And we're making sure that our community understands that they can have the impact that they want
00:15:55.820to have, that they belong within tech and that they can, you know, see those representations.
00:16:01.980And frankly, because we need for them to do that, they're going to be the ones who actually
00:16:07.260bring us the tech that's representative of our communities in the world. And so it's critical
00:16:12.180that we change what's happening. Absolutely. You know, when I first started this podcast,
00:16:18.200I kind of went into it with a similar kind of misconception that you just described,
00:16:23.020I'm sad to say, where I had sort of internalized this story that, you know, technology was a boys
00:16:29.660club and that women and people of color had been trying to break into this boys club and that
00:16:34.760that's kind of where we were. But in doing a little bit of research, I was like, oh, wait,
00:16:39.180actually, we were there all along. And just because our stories weren't always told,
00:16:45.840or we didn't always get the shine or whatever, doesn't mean we weren't there. And so it took
00:16:50.140this kind of recalibrating internally to be like, no, this is our rightful domain. We have a right
00:16:56.860to take up space and show up here. Absolutely. And when you think about it,
00:17:01.740tech intersects every facet of our lives, right? You have, be it voting rights, healthcare,
00:17:08.460safety and security, and there's no opting out of tech. I think what you said is so profound
00:17:14.880because we have been not only consumers and users, but certainly the creativity,
00:17:22.000all the different things. It's just that these things, these accomplishments aren't amplified,
00:17:26.500you know and often it's the same folks who are getting be it funding for the next big idea
00:17:33.500or recognition around a given gadget or its influence and part of what we do is that we
00:17:40.780maintain a steady drumbeat making sure that we actually lift up the stories because when I think
00:17:46.660about even if you want to think about our students who you know are new to technology in some cases
00:17:52.580are just starting out. I am blown away by their projects and the way they think about things.
00:17:59.560And to say nothing of our alums, that includes students who have, you know, created all kinds
00:18:06.240of things like, you know, an app to stop cyberbullying, or we have another alum who, you
00:18:13.180know, galvanized a whole group of folks to make PPE through 3D printing. And these are young
00:18:20.200people. And so I'm just so grateful that your show is another opportunity to kind of lift up these
00:19:06.980When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:19:12.240I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:19:19.240I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:19:22.940I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.
00:19:31.140Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:19:35.420I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:19:40.000I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:19:47.640They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:19:51.540But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:19:54.960They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:19:58.620Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:06.380If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:20:13.280This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:20:25.460I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:20:32.580I'm going to have to look up this story.
00:20:35.720From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:20:42.120It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:20:50.020Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:20:59.200Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:28:17.640we've already named, this is our 10 year anniversary. We intend to teach a million
00:28:22.060girls. We are not scared because we know that they're the ones who are going to change this
00:28:27.100world. And every program that we have focuses on sisterhood and, you know, values, the skills and
00:28:36.040relationships that our students are building that carry them through our program. And long after
00:28:41.380the programmatic work with us ends. And so for us, it was all about sort of reinforcing. We were
00:28:48.920able to double down on our commitment to prepare young people for the jobs of the future, and
00:28:54.040especially young women of color, because they're the ones who are going to shape industry, right?
00:29:00.080They're the ones who are going to really disrupt the status quo. And for folks who don't know about0.91
00:29:08.260Girls Who Code, you know, we are all about closing the gender gap in new entry-level tech jobs by
00:29:14.9402030. And for us, we start as early as third grade and go all the way through college and1.00
00:29:22.460even workforce programming. And, you know, there's so much that I can talk to you about,
00:29:28.660be it our, you know, summer immersion program. We even have self-paced programming during the summer
00:29:33.640or free afterschool clubs, we are getting, you know, we're reaching girls at every stage of the
00:29:39.800pipeline, driving their, you know, interest, keeping them excited and ensuring that they
00:29:45.140persist. And I'll point to a couple of things that we've done, you know, that just bring me
00:29:51.500so much hope and excitement. So during the pandemic, we had to pivot so much of our
00:29:56.600programming and I can, you know, spend forever Bridget telling you about this, but one of the
00:30:01.420things that was really striking for me, especially as CEO, is that when we surveyed our alumni
00:30:06.880community, we learned that 30% of them had had a job offer or internship rescinded, and that 40%
00:30:13.940of our seniors were still looking for work. And while we were not experts in workforce development,
00:30:20.800we had just started to see our cohorts move into that older domain of going into the workforce,
00:30:27.320we knew we couldn't sit by on the sidelines and watch all this progress that these young women1.00
00:30:34.180and non-binary students had made fall to the wayside. And so we launched programming that1.00
00:30:40.500just met these needs. We had hiring summits where we had more than a thousand students participate
00:30:46.020in each one with really strong numbers of students being hired from those experiences.
00:30:51.340We launched Girls Who Code Work Prep, you know, which is like an internship program, giving young women exposure to, you know, corporate partners and careers and women in tech.
00:31:03.020But two programs that I really want to double click on are our Leadership Academy.
00:31:08.300We just launched this. It's a four month pilot program with 100 students from 80 universities who are majoring in everything from computer science to applied mathematics.
00:31:18.66090% of the Leadership Academy students come from historically underrepresented groups.
00:31:24.020And we are giving these students a chance to experience these dynamic sessions and events
00:31:44.600They're even going to be a part of a technical interview prep boot camp.
00:31:49.640But the thing that really, you know, the icing on the cake for me is that these students are also going to work with an advisor to design and propose and execute a give back project that's going to strengthen their skills, boost their resume, you know, elevate education, career opportunities for their community as well, which I think is just so powerful.
00:32:11.420And then another program that I'll briefly mention is that we just launched our technical interview prep last month. And in this particular program, we're working with thousands of students who are interested in breaking into the tech workforce every day.
00:32:26.280And we know that for a lot of young people, especially young people of color, the technical
00:32:31.000interview is the most challenging and daunting part of the hiring process.
00:32:35.040And we've also known that the folks who succeed at the technical interview always have some
00:32:40.940quote, insider access to give them a leg up.
00:32:43.500And we know that there aren't very often affordable and accessible resources to help students
00:37:54.260how folks run for office, how people vote,
00:37:56.360how you get your groceries, whether or not you wind up being criminalized by the state or
00:38:00.960over-surveilled. There is no way to opt out of this. And yet, if people who are marginalized
00:38:07.160feel like that they are shut out of those conversations, they don't feel like they
00:38:13.920should be able to take up space there, we are just saying, okay, well, this is going to be
00:38:18.680happening to you. You will not have the tools, the know-how, the skills to even participate in
00:38:26.160this thing that we know is going to be such a big part of all of our lives.
00:38:29.640Exactly. And, you know, Bridget, I don't know how I can possibly add more that what you just said
00:38:34.320was so astute. We refuse to accept that notion, right, that our young people are going to be,
00:38:41.940you know, on the sidelines, that they're only going to be users or consumers, and that they're
00:38:46.620going to watch this tech, you know, world unfold around them. That's just not what we believe in.
00:38:52.500and everything we've done has positioned them front and center and demanded, frankly,
00:38:57.720that the tech industry give them a seat at the table. We are in 2022 and we are still talking
00:39:04.300about women holding roughly somewhere around 26% of all computer science jobs, right? And when you
00:39:11.600look at Black and Latinx women, we're talking about that roughly being about 5% for those groups.
00:39:18.460You know, more than half of the students in our Girls Who Code community come from historically underrepresented groups.
00:39:27.100These are young women who are motivated, right?
00:39:30.080They're ready to learn, but don't often have the same resources or opportunities as their peers.
00:39:36.320And everyone needs to acknowledge that circumstances are different.
00:39:42.600their circumstances might cause them to work multiple jobs while carrying a full college
00:39:47.080course load, balancing homework and caregiving responsibilities. They don't always have access
00:39:53.300to the resources they need to succeed. And the thing that I have to underscore is that
00:39:59.020these young women often embody bravery and resilience, the very qualities that companies
00:40:06.560are falling over themselves to identify in their workforce, but at the same time are not at all
00:40:13.120reflected in conventional academic credentials that these tech firms overwhelmingly rely on.
00:40:20.300And this can be so discouraging for our students. You know, computer science, as you said,
00:40:27.280it touches our lives at every intersection. You know, we're talking about the fastest growing,
00:40:34.060highest paying sector in our economy. Employment is expected to grow by 11% between 2019 and
00:40:43.0802029. And that's going to translate into a half a million new jobs. And, you know, there's no
00:40:50.520world where we can just sit here and tell our girls, our young people, our black and brown
00:40:57.140people that the best jobs out there, the highest paying, the fastest growing, the ones that are0.94
00:41:04.220actually going to shape the future of our world aren't for them. And so, you know, part of what
00:41:11.400I try to do as CEO of Girls Who Code is constantly remind any of the tech companies with whom I come
00:41:18.460in contact that they need to shift their mindset around talent, around academic credentialing,
00:41:25.400around how they think about, you know, the young people that are sitting in front of them,
00:41:30.040you know, knocking at that door and that they can't afford to leave a single ounce of tech
00:41:35.400talent on the table. And so, you know, everything we design at Girls Who Code contemplates this0.93
00:41:43.580and makes sure that they, you know, our young people are equipped with the tools they need
00:41:49.080to be able to succeed. And of course, I talk about, you know, the really punishing work cultures
00:41:56.780and, you know, difficult environments that also cause, you know, 50% of women to leave the tech
00:42:02.900field by the age of 35. And Bridget, there's just so much complexity there. But for me, you know,
00:42:10.160my work is twofold. It's teaching girls computer science, but also holding industry to account and
00:42:16.040making sure that we are constantly pushing this culture that tells our most marginalized
00:42:21.680young people that they don't belong in tech. I am so grateful that you're doing the work of
00:42:28.560pushing back against that culture and really shaking up the status quo. And honestly, part of
00:42:33.340me feels like if someone is trying to ban your books because you're shaking that table, kind of
00:42:40.340doing something right. Thank you, Bridget. I appreciate that. So let's say that someone
00:42:46.160listening, they have a young person in their life, a young woman or a young non-binary person,
00:42:50.760and they want to get involved with Girls Who Code. How can folks listening get involved?
00:42:56.600Thank you so much for that question. Anyone who's listening, you know, I always say first and
00:43:01.420foremost, go to girlswhocode.com, check out our website because we do list all of our programs.
00:43:06.540there are so many entry points, Bridget, and that's something I'm deeply proud of.
00:43:11.400You know, we started with that flagship, you know, seven-week summer immersion program with
00:43:15.82020 girls in a borrowed conference room in New York City, learning how to code from nine in
00:43:21.060the morning till four in the afternoon. And we've expanded so much since then. This past summer,
00:43:27.340I think we taught over 6,000 girls computer science during our summer programming alone.
00:43:34.060So if there are girls or non-binary students, female identifying folks who want to be a part of that kind of experience, that is fantastic. And certainly that'll come around come summer.
00:43:46.200But our free after school clubs from grades three through 12, those are absolutely available in your community. And if you're a parent thinking or a librarian or community leader or someone else thinking, I don't have this at my school or I don't have this, you can actually start one.
00:44:04.520And we always encourage folks to do that. And you can look for that information on our website. And then beyond that, I mentioned our technical interview prep. So if you're a young person thinking about entering the sector and wanting to sharpen your skills for that, you know, dreaded technical interview, we have something for you.
00:44:23.240um and you know all of this we have so many so much programming we have college loops across
00:44:29.660college campuses um you know across the country and you know there's so many entry points i'm
00:44:36.300hopeful that your listeners will think about how they can you know encourage a young person
00:44:42.660ask a girl you know a daughter a niece an intern a mentee whether she's considered
00:44:49.120a career in tech. And all of us have a role to play because we can also push back when we hear
00:44:56.660stereotypes about who belongs in the sector. And we can keep pushing a conversation that says that
00:45:03.900more folks should have a seat at the table. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech
00:45:12.100or just want to say hi? You can reach us at hello at tangody.com. You can also find transcripts for
00:45:17.080today's episode at tangody.com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me,
00:45:21.120Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. Jonathan Strickland is
00:45:25.500our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is
00:45:30.120our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review
00:45:35.160us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,
00:45:39.980Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:45:47.080I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:46:01.660what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files.
00:46:07.340Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,
00:46:13.080and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:46:18.740Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,
00:46:23.340Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:46:26.640If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,
00:46:30.840welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for
00:46:36.400anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:46:40.720Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture
00:46:44.200with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.