There Are No Girls on the Internet - Charlie Kirk Snitch App Data Leak; TikTok Rapture; David Lynch AI Reddit Revolt; Meta Exploits Parents' Photos – NEWS ROUNDUP

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00:00:34.920 If your bookshelf and your For You page

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00:00:39.100 welcome home.

00:00:40.700 Pro Society is a weekly podcast

00:00:42.560 that's part book club, part group chat

00:00:44.480 for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

00:00:46.180 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:00:48.920 Each week, we're connecting the dots

00:00:50.360 between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:00:52.460 with your favorite writers, book talk creators,

00:00:54.980 and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:00:57.080 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:01.740 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:05.020 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:01:07.980 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:11.700 what should have destroyed them.

00:01:13.700 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:01:17.400 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,

00:01:21.100 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:24.740 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:01:28.800 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:33.380 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:36.860 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:01:41.220 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:01:46.560 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors

00:01:50.580 and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:01:53.200 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:01:56.420 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:01:59.580 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app,

00:02:03.800 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:02:10.820 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:18.940 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:23.200 Welcome to There Are No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the intersection of social media, technology, and identity.

00:02:31.060 And this is another installment of our weekly news roundup, where we break down all the stories on the Internet that you might have missed so you don't have to.

00:02:38.340 This is a bit weird, but producer Mike, we are, you and I are still here, still on planet Earth.

00:02:45.300 As far as I know, we did not get raptured like an evangelical TikTok thought we might.

00:02:50.000 I have so many bills and outstanding debts that I unexpectedly need to take care of now.

00:02:55.620 Oh, I saw a few TikToks from people who were like, oh, I'm racking up credit card debt because I'm about to get raptured, baby.

00:03:01.660 I'm not going to be paying that back.

00:03:03.260 Yeah, I totally thought that I would be kicking it in heaven, you know, tossing back cocktails with St. Peter.

00:03:10.340 But I'm still here on this earthly rock.

00:03:14.900 So September 23rd or 24th, depending on who you ask, was supposed to mark the rapture,

00:03:21.520 the day that Jesus Christ would return to earth, gather up all the true believers,

00:03:26.180 and leave behind everybody else to endure seven years of God's judgment.

00:03:31.140 As far as I can tell, and also according to the cut, this prediction traces back to a South

00:03:35.800 African pastor named Joshua Michaela. In a sermon clip shared on a very official-sounding YouTube

00:03:42.340 channel, he said that he received a direct vision from JC himself, Jesus Christ, warning that the

00:03:50.800 end of the world was going to be taking place on September 23rd or possibly the 24th. If you're

00:03:56.780 listening to this, I guess it is possible the rapture did happen and that we all did not get

00:04:03.660 raptured and we have not yet faced judgment. Or maybe we're all in purgatory. So if that's the

00:04:12.340 purgatory podcast that's possible maybe zero humans made the cut maybe jesus took a look

00:04:20.020 around it was just like nah you all y'all just gotta stay here sorry i came i'm leaving good

00:04:28.200 luck honestly i was looking forward to it i was ready for this all to be over i was like i'm ready

00:04:33.560 for what's next. Bring it on. You know, I was really rooting for all the evangelicals who

00:04:41.460 thought that they were going to get raptured to get raptured like they get what they want.

00:04:46.940 I feel like we could adapt without them down here. But we're all still here together. We all still

00:04:55.660 have to make our way in this earthly plane together. Oh, well, should we get into some

00:05:01.880 of the stories that folks might have missed on the internet this week? I mean, we're still here,

00:05:06.720 so I guess we have no choice. Also, just FYI, if the rapture comes, there are no girls on the 0.99

00:05:12.900 internet. We publish Tuesdays and Fridays, come hell or high water, we will have internet takes 1.00

00:05:18.380 for you. The Tangodi team will be putting out episodes regardless. So if that day does come,

00:05:24.600 it doesn't sound like it actually happened on the 24th, but if it does come, you can rest assured

00:05:29.820 We will have internet takes for you still, even if the rapture happens.

00:05:35.220 I bet there'll be some really funny takes on Blue Sky when it happens.

00:05:38.900 Oh, God, I can't wait for the takes.

00:05:40.480 The rapture takes.

00:05:41.880 So we told you about the website and app that sprang up in the aftermath of the death of Charlie Kirk

00:05:47.320 that was really a place for Charlie Kirk fans to dox people who they deemed as not being mournful enough of Kirk's death.

00:05:55.720 Well, according to Straight Arrow News, that site is now exposing the personal data of the people making those submissions.

00:06:03.380 So initially, the site was called charliesmurderers.com and quickly rebranded to Cancel the Hate, and they launched in the wake of Kirk's assassination on September 10th.

00:06:12.540 The website says, Cancel the Hate aims to, quote, hold individuals accountable for their public words and calls on users to express concern by submitting intel on alleged offenders, including their names, locations, and employers.

00:06:28.380 For some reason, they're really interested in targeting medical professionals.

00:06:33.260 This is from Straight Arrow News. Cancel the Hate highlights a particular interest in medical professionals whose conduct could endanger patients, the website says, as well as public officials, business owners, entertainers, influencers, teachers and educational administrators.

00:06:47.620 That is pretty curious, and I think we can only speculate why, but we know that these people love to target doctors who are associated with providing abortions or reproductive care or providing gender-affirming care.

00:07:05.100 So, you know, one can only guess why they would have this special interest in medical professionals.

00:07:13.100 But, you know, one hypothesis could be that this whole enterprise is mainly interested in collecting data that they can then use to target people that they don't like.

00:07:25.700 And if so, medical professionals are pretty high on that list for them.

00:07:30.600 So that could make some sense.

00:07:32.460 Oh, well, just listen.

00:07:33.520 If you're thinking this whole thing is some sort of enterprise to collect data and maybe not be super careful with that data, just listen.

00:07:40.260 So according to Straight Arrow News, Cancel the Hate says users who submit data on others will not have their personal details made public.

00:07:48.700 However, they later then launched a social media style app that was launched alongside the website that appears to have been exposing exactly that.

00:07:58.280 According to Straight Arrow News, a flaw in the app discovered by a security researcher who goes by Bob DeHacker enabled an exposure of user information such as email addresses and phone numbers.

00:08:09.520 So it sounds like just by default, the people turning in others on this app have their email addresses publicly listed in their bio, which is pretty unusual.

00:08:18.640 And that even if they did change their privacy settings to turn that off, their email addresses were still exposed.

00:08:24.300 So Straight Arrow News set up a test account on the app.

00:08:27.860 And then this researcher, Bob DeHacker, was able to provide Straight Arrow News with a sample of data from 142 users, which included that test account that they had started.

00:08:37.780 So it does seem to prove that, yes, that data was accessible.

00:08:41.740 Bob DeHacker also demonstrated how the security flaw allowed them to remove users by deleting Straight Arrow News' test account.

00:08:49.300 So Straight Arrow News then reached out to a user who was listed in this leaked data,

00:08:54.860 and that person confirmed that they had, in fact, downloaded this Cancel the Hate Charlie Kirk app.

00:09:01.080 That user, who did ask to remain anonymous over fears of retribution,

00:09:05.040 expressed concerns that Cancel the Hate might be a, quote,

00:09:08.640 scam after receiving an influx of donation requests to their email.

00:09:13.900 It really goes back to what we talked about in our episodes about the T-app, that these sites or these apps that pop up very quickly to take advantage of a certain kind of culture war or social or political climate, they kind of have to cut corners in order to kind of go to market with the quickness to take advantage of the moment that everybody is talking about.

00:09:39.880 And because they're cutting those corners, they are putting things like, I don't know, the privacy of their users at risk just so they could take advantage of that cultural moment.

00:09:50.360 I really feel like this is so similar to exactly what we saw with the T app.

00:09:55.060 I agree. It does sound very similar.

00:09:58.120 I feel bad for this user that the news network reached out to who expressed concern and thought that maybe it could be a scam.

00:10:06.760 And it's like, honey, if you think this is a scam, just like expand your scope a little bit.

00:10:11.740 The whole thing is a scam.

00:10:14.400 Yeah, the entire thing is a scam.

00:10:16.640 And genuinely, in our episode about Charlie Kirk, I went to this website myself and I kind of can't believe anybody would put their information into it.

00:10:27.100 but I do feel like it gives a kind of a false sense of security because the whole website is

00:10:34.360 like, oh, you're the one who's reporting others. You are providing the information of others so

00:10:40.960 that they will be dot, so that they will have their security put at risk. I think that something

00:10:45.300 about that dynamic creates a false sense of security where they're certainly not going to

00:10:50.180 put my information at risk. I'm the one that's meant to be putting others' information at risk.

00:10:55.020 I hate to give these people the benefit of the doubt, but, you know, the people who are doxing others for being insufficiently mournful. But I do feel bad for them because this whole enterprise, this website has the trappings of an organizing endeavor where we're all in this together.

00:11:16.200 were on the same team guys were trying to punish these libs who are celebrating charlie kirk's

00:11:21.900 death i guess i i think that was kind of the the gist of what they were going for that's right

00:11:26.220 but you know in in like a a real organizing effort where you are you know someone is truly in good

00:11:34.600 faith trying to organize their community taking care of people in that community is a big part of

00:11:39.260 And that's just not present here at all. Like, pretty clearly, like, not only did they not have their security buttoned up to allow information to be unintentionally accessed by Bob the Hacker, but by default, people's email address was exposed.

00:12:00.740 Like that is just not even taking the first step to protect the people who you are trying to ostensibly organize and recruit into this collective effort.

00:12:12.780 And I, again, I feel bad for the users who were trying to use this thing in good faith, I guess.

00:12:21.000 But, you know, to someone like myself who views this whole enterprise as just like a right wing scam to collect data and like punish the libs and achieve power, it is completely not surprising that they would build this in a way that does not respect or protect their users at all.

00:12:43.980 Oh, no. I mean, to be super clear, in my opinion, no one is submitting the names of someone else because they deemed them as insufficiently mournful in good faith. So I don't think that anybody going to this website and submitting the name of somebody else is doing so in good faith.

00:12:59.620 However, this is just my blanket warning. These websites that spring up to take advantage of some sort of a hot button social or political or cultural moment, nobody should trust enterprises like that.

00:13:13.980 I think that we should be a lot more careful about where we put our personal information and who we trust and what organizations we trust with that information.

00:13:21.580 But a website that sprang up within 12 hours, certainly that is going to be a website that is cut in quarters because they care more about seizing on that hot cultural moment than they do about caring for the data or the privacy of their users.

00:13:38.420 Just bottom line.

00:13:39.440 And when you go to cancelthehate.com right now, the website is down. It says, changes are coming. Please check back soon for the new service provider. And I think that really says a lot that this happened. They were like, oh, we got to take this down.

00:13:53.380 I don't think that websites like this really give a shit about anybody. They give a shit about money. They give a shit about harnessing people's data and potentially exploiting that data or misusing that data. And I mean, the kind of person that is trying to submit other people's information because they deem them being insufficiently mournful of Charlie Kirk, that is not the kind of person I think is operating in good faith. 0.99

00:14:18.320 However, everybody should be aware and have just a general awareness of the fact that these kinds of organizations and these kinds of sites are not anybody's friend.

00:14:27.940 They are the only person they are looking out for is themselves.

00:14:30.760 And I don't know, maybe it sounds weird to tell, to give that kind of a warning to the kind of people who would be gleefully submitting other people to be docs to a website like this.

00:14:40.360 And maybe maybe it's it's turnabout is fair play, but I don't think it makes our Internet landscape any better when these kinds of operations are able to pop up so quickly and people are are so caught up in the moment of retribution to others that they will give their information so willy nilly to bad actors.

00:15:01.420 Yeah, I agree. I think everybody would be well served by everyone across the political spectrum being more wary and skeptical just in general.

00:15:18.140 Let's take a quick break.

00:15:31.420 for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit visit bell.ca for details and

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00:16:10.560 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:16:14.980 welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:16:20.880 part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

00:16:25.080 Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

00:16:26.620 deserve the same level of discourse.

00:16:29.020 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots

00:16:31.520 between books, the internet,

00:16:33.300 and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:16:36.060 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:16:37.960 I'm obsessed, so obsessed.

00:16:39.660 From best-selling authors

00:16:40.700 and your favorite book talk creators

00:16:42.260 to the latest pop culture moments,

00:16:44.500 nothing is off the table.

00:16:45.980 It's like if you can hide some real messages

00:16:48.860 inside compelling characters,

00:16:51.560 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:16:53.060 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:17:02.660 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:08.600 See you between the pages.

00:17:10.700 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:17:16.480 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:17:23.040 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:17:26.640 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:17:32.080 shut up, don't say anything.

00:17:34.840 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:17:39.260 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:17:43.700 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:17:48.460 and I just started screaming.

00:17:50.780 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:17:55.240 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:17:58.700 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:18:02.320 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:11.580 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:18:15.620 If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:18:22.460 So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people.

00:18:30.620 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:18:37.760 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:18:40.860 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:18:43.720 You have something in your guts.

00:18:45.740 You go with it.

00:18:47.140 And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one.

00:18:52.860 He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood.

00:18:57.280 He hadn't been on a plane before without his family.

00:19:00.780 It was so pure.

00:19:02.540 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:19:13.720 at our back. Okay, speaking of bad actors, I have to talk about this Guardian report because it made

00:19:24.120 me sick. So according to The Guardian, Meta used back-to-school pictures of schoolgirls to advertise

00:19:30.840 one of its social media platforms to at least one 37-year-old grown man. That man who ended up

00:19:37.800 reporting these posts first noticed these posts encouraging him to get threads were being dropped

00:19:42.900 them to his Instagram feed and embedding posts that included images of little girls as young as

00:19:49.260 13 years old with their faces visible, wearing school uniforms, and in a lot of cases included

00:19:54.860 their names. How did Meta get images of these schoolgirls? Well, well-meaning parents posted

00:20:01.960 them as part of those classic sort of back-to-school pictures that you probably see all over social

00:20:07.900 media during this time of year. Do you know the photos I'm talking about? Sometimes a kid will be

00:20:12.380 holding a sign that says where they go to school and their teacher's name or it's a picture of like

00:20:17.840 kids lined up on the stoop of their house ready to go to school in a school uniform you know what

00:20:22.340 i'm talking about yeah of course those are classic photos i have seen a lot of them in private group

00:20:30.360 chats that i'm part of from like family or friends where their kid is going off to like first day of

00:20:35.020 kindergarten or first day of third grade or whatever well i have seen those photos too and

00:20:39.900 when I was putting together my thoughts about this part of the episode, I was going to say,

00:20:44.620 oh, well, no parent should be posting those back to school pictures. If you want to share them

00:20:49.280 with people, they should be shared in a group chat. I will own that I myself am not a parent yet.

00:20:54.720 I do have pretty strong feelings about, you know, how parents should be posting their kids on social

00:21:00.900 media, which is not at all. I think that when you're posting those kinds of pictures, they

00:21:05.100 should be for, as you said, private group chats, private groups of friends and family.

00:21:09.900 When I was putting my thoughts together, I do feel like I just want to say, even though for safety's sake, I still think that is the case, particularly when you look at the story that we're talking about right now.

00:21:22.000 However, I do think parents should be able to post totally normal pictures of their kids on social media without worrying those pictures are going to be used by Meta in completely inappropriate ways.

00:21:36.940 I don't want to I am very wary of not wanting to sort of blame the victim because we should have an internet landscape where parents can post totally commonplace pictures of their kids.

00:21:49.640 And it's not going to be used by anybody, not creeps and certainly not corporations like Facebook.

00:21:56.920 But unfortunately, that is just not the reality that we live in, especially when you look at what's going on in this story.

00:22:03.220 Because according to The Guardian, the parents were completely unaware that meta settings when they uploaded these photos permitted meta to surface these images of their of their minor children, 13 year olds and schoolgirl outfits going to school to grown men in an attempt to entice these grown men into downloading threads.

00:22:23.940 One mother said her account was set to private, but the posts were automatically cross-posting

00:22:29.040 to threads where they were visible.

00:22:31.200 Another said she posted the picture to a public Instagram account.

00:22:34.400 The posts of their children were highlighted to the stranger as, quote, suggested threads.

00:22:39.480 Now, parents understandably felt like these images were sort of being framed by Meta in

00:22:47.480 a way that was sort of sexually provocative.

00:22:49.620 the father of a 13-year-old who'd appeared in one of these posts said it was absolutely

00:22:53.960 outrageous because there were images of schoolgirls in short skirts with bare legs or

00:22:58.840 stockings. He said, quote, when I found out an image of her had been exploited in what felt

00:23:04.180 like a sexualized way by a massive company like that to market their product, it left me feeling

00:23:09.460 quite disgusted. So here's what Meta said happened. It said that it recommended people to visit

00:23:15.540 threads by showing them publicly shared photos that comply with its community standards and

00:23:20.900 recommendation guidelines meta says that its systems do not recommend threads shared by

00:23:26.660 teenagers or minors but because the images of the minors were actually posted on their parents

00:23:32.220 instagram accounts according to meta that made them fair game to be used in this way

00:23:37.200 what a disgusting take like meta over and over they just demonstrate to us how little regard 0.99

00:23:45.400 they have for their users for decency of any kind like it's just disgusting they are a disgusting 0.97

00:23:55.360 company who will use technicalities to take parents photos of their kids and use that to 0.96

00:24:02.660 market their products towards creeps what disgusting people a spokesperson for meta told

00:24:08.900 the guardian pretty much exactly what you just described they didn't say they didn't even

00:24:12.960 acknowledged that this was inappropriate or even something like they there wasn't even an oh our

00:24:17.900 bad this was our the we we had a blind spot here they said quote the images shared do not violate

00:24:24.240 our policies and our back to school photos posted publicly by parents we have systems in place to

00:24:29.940 make sure that we don't recommend threads shared by teens or that go against our recommendation

00:24:33.940 guidelines and users can control whether meta suggests their public posts on instagram so to

00:24:39.680 To me, that statement is really blaming the parent.

00:24:41.980 It's like, well, you posted a back to school picture of your 13 year old with bare legs that said her full name and where she went to school and you posted it publicly on our platform.

00:24:52.000 So if you didn't want it to be shown to a 37 year old stranger, you shouldn't have done that.

00:24:57.040 Their statement completely blames the parents and doesn't even give a nod to the fact that, OK, yes, perhaps you have guardrails in place that are not surfacing the accounts of minors in this way.

00:25:10.780 But you know that parents post these kinds of back to school pictures, like not even a nod to the fact that maybe this is less than ideal.

00:25:18.000 That's exactly right. He's completely blaming the parents. And most perversely, implicit in this whole argument is the idea that the parents knew that this would happen. And when they posted the photos were consenting to allow this to happen.

00:25:32.220 So Meta's position here is that these parents wanted the photos of their children to be served up in this sexualized way.

00:25:41.460 It's so disingenuous and it so betrays the complete lack of even basic care and concern that Meta has for their users.

00:25:53.660 Yes, and listen to this, because one parent who is clearly not buying what Meta is selling here

00:25:58.720 really points out that when you look at how her normal content performs on her kind of modest

00:26:04.500 Instagram page, and when you look at how this content of her daughter, her minor daughter's

00:26:10.360 back-to-school picture performed, clearly, Meta, there's something going on here. So The Guardian

00:26:14.640 reports, the one parent who unwittingly posted the image of her kid said that the image performed

00:26:19.500 much better than her typical content. With 267 followers, her Instagram account usually had modest

00:26:25.400 reach, but the post of her child attracted nearly 7,000 views, 90% from non-followers,

00:26:32.340 half of whom were over the age of 44 and 90% of whom were men. So she's not in charge of

00:26:39.160 Instagram's algorithm. She is not in charge of determining who her images are shown to and

00:26:45.900 surfaced to in Instagram's algorithm. The fact that her content generally does not get 7,000

00:26:51.340 views is not shown to 90% people that she doesn't know, strangers, non-followers, and is not

00:26:58.300 generally shown to the majority men who are over 44 years of age. Clearly, Facebook is determining

00:27:06.980 this. So to your point that Facebook is saying, oh, well, the parents wanted their images of their

00:27:13.520 13-year-old daughter in a school uniform doing back to school to be shown to these, to, you know,

00:27:19.800 a bunch of 40-year-old men. Facebook is doing that. The parents aren't doing that. Facebook is doing

00:27:25.800 that. 100%. That's exactly, that's a perfect way to describe it. Facebook is doing that. The parents

00:27:33.000 aren't doing that. Facebook is doing that. They can point to whatever policies they have and say

00:27:39.360 like, oh, this doesn't violate this or that policy. But Facebook is choosing to do that.

00:27:45.920 Another mom who said that a picture of her 13-year-old was used in promotional posts said,

00:27:50.580 quote, Meta did all of this on purpose, not informing us, as they want to generate content.

00:27:55.880 It's despicable. And who is responsible for creating threads ads using children's photos

00:28:00.900 to promote the platform for older men? At every opportunity, Meta privileges profit over safety

00:28:06.800 and company growth over children's right to privacy.

00:28:10.160 It is the only reason that they could think it is appropriate

00:28:12.600 to send pictures of schoolgirls to a 37-year-old man as bait.

00:28:17.000 Meta is a willfully careless company.

00:28:19.900 Yes, I totally agree with this mom.

00:28:22.900 This story, like, really has my blood boiling. 0.91

00:28:26.580 Like, we talk about how shitty Meta is all the time,

00:28:29.020 and they are a very bad company that has done very bad things, 0.52

00:28:32.320 causing much more severe harm than this particular story.

00:28:36.800 But something about the fact that they are taking these parents photos of their children, these parents are like proud of their children who are going to back to school.

00:28:46.860 It's like a sweet thing and using it in this twisted way and then not even acknowledging that there's anything wrong with that.

00:28:54.580 This might win the award for like most disgusting thing we've covered meta doing on this show.

00:28:59.720 And there have been a lot.

00:29:01.780 Yeah. And it's interesting to me that it's happening on threads.

00:29:04.860 I am on Threads because I don't really use X anymore, and Threads is where I sort of scratch that X Twitter itch.

00:29:13.360 And I have a few times now encountered these Threads accounts where every post on this account is a video of a very young girl.

00:29:24.560 And the girls are fully clothed, but they are doing things like, oh, they're wearing a skirt and doing a cartwheel, or they're stretching in a kind of way.

00:29:33.960 and as somebody that's been in a lot of these spaces to me i'm like oh this is a child this is

00:29:39.700 a an account that is trying to skirt a line when it comes to child exploitation and so i have

00:29:45.860 whenever i i have personally reported a handful of these accounts many times and they never get

00:29:52.520 taken down and i don't know maybe i'm seeing something that's not there or i'm being approved

00:29:58.060 But you just you just know when an account is doing something that they that's not cool, that's not good.

00:30:06.020 Like you just you just can tell. And when I see these accounts, I can tell this is an account that is not on the level.

00:30:14.060 And the fact that I keep reporting it and that I keep seeing it, it's not it's not being taken down really concerns me.

00:30:21.540 And I guess I just I think I've made this point before.

00:30:24.040 But the fact that all of this is happening against the backdrop of we're all being told that as adults who are trying to navigate the Internet, the Internet needs to be restricted in X, Y, Z, very impressive ways so that children can be kept safe.

00:30:37.360 Meanwhile, the biggest social media platforms on the planet can do stuff like this and get away with it.

00:30:44.760 And even when they're they're asked about it, can blame the parents boils my blood.

00:30:49.740 So I am right there with you, Mike. 0.98

00:30:51.360 Like, it is some just really despicable stuff that I think really shows how far we have come to genuinely giving a shit about keeping kids safe online. 0.99

00:31:03.300 Well, and stay with this account that you talked about that keeps posting this material that is, like, exploitative of children, but that doesn't violate any explicit policies because the children are wearing clothes, thank fucking God. 0.95

00:31:19.840 And it's interesting to juxtapose that against COVID misinformation and electoral misinformation, where there's this debate that has been happening about whether platforms should restrict it or not.

00:31:35.280 And even setting aside the merits of that, it at least makes sense to me that there is a powerful constituency of right wing people who want that information to exist on the Internet and therefore it does.

00:31:52.000 But when we think about this information of like wink and nod, clothed, but provocative child exploitation material, who is the constituency for that?

00:32:04.460 It's not like there's some powerful representatives or like Senate committees demanding that Meta keep this on their platform.

00:32:12.480 They're doing that for them.

00:32:13.800 They're doing that to keep selling their product, to keep getting engagement, to keep selling ads.

00:32:20.440 And it's despicable.

00:32:22.880 It's despicable.

00:32:24.260 I mean, that's what these parents are calling out.

00:32:26.260 And when you look at the way that Mark Zuckerberg talks about some of their other products like AI chatbots, he has been very explicitly vocal.

00:32:33.620 We got to pump the gas a little bit if you want to have people be staying engaged on our on our platform and stay engaged in our bots.

00:32:41.840 That's why they ended up having that internal document that said that it was totally a OK if their bots had sensual role play with miners.

00:32:50.420 Yeah, one does have to wonder how far Meta can take this thing before there is some sort of accountability, because it does seem like every other week we're talking about something that Meta has done where they are using, I want to be careful with my words, but like material that is in some way exploitative of children to sell their product that I don't think anybody thinks is OK.

00:33:17.220 And, you know, they get away with it because they are so powerful. But at some point, I don't know, they are not going to be able to get away with it, I hope. I don't know what that point looks like. And I hope that they pull back way the hell ahead of that point.

00:33:33.600 Well, speaking of accountability, really quickly, did you know that YouTube, owned by Google, back in 2020, they kicked some people off of their platform for things like spreading COVID misinformation or 2020 election denialism?

00:33:48.940 Well, Variety reports that a lawyer for Alphabet, the parent company of YouTube, is essentially starting a program to welcome those creators back.

00:33:58.600 According to this report, they said that the Biden administration pressured YouTube into cracking down on content that was election or COVID misinformation.

00:34:10.100 This is according to a statement of facts from Alphabet, the parent company of YouTube and Google, which they said in response to subpoenas from the House Judiciary Committee chaired by Representative Jim Jordan from Ohio.

00:34:22.260 The letter reads, YouTube's community guidelines allow for a wider range of content regarding COVID-19 and election integrity.

00:34:30.120 Reflecting the company's commitment to free expression, YouTube will provide an opportunity for all creators to rejoin the platform if the company terminated their channels for repeated violations of COVID-19 and elections integrity policies that are no longer in effect.

00:34:45.060 YouTube values conservative voices on its platform and recognizes that these creators have extensive reach and play an important role in civic discourse.

00:34:53.600 The company recognizes that these creators are among those shaping today's online consumption, landing must-watch interviews,

00:35:00.440 giving viewers the chance to hear directly from politicians, celebrities, business leaders, and more.

00:35:05.940 So if you were kicked off of YouTube for COVID misinformation or election denialism in 2020, welcome back.

00:35:13.140 Although, guess who tried to sneak in under that?

00:35:16.880 I was like, oh, they're letting people back.

00:35:18.740 Guess who tried to sneak their way back in?

00:35:20.720 And YouTube was like, ah, ah, ah, not you.

00:35:23.380 Can you guess?

00:35:24.480 Oh, this is not in the notes.

00:35:26.300 I'm so excited.

00:35:27.300 There's two people.

00:35:28.740 I don't know.

00:35:30.900 Who are the two people who tried to sneak back in here?

00:35:35.180 Nick Fuentes and Alex Jones. 1.00

00:35:37.560 YouTube was like, listen, if you are a fucking degenerate scumbag who is profiting off of harmful, dangerous lies, walk them aboard. 1.00

00:35:47.920 Alex Jones and Nick Fuentes, not you. Not so fast. 1.00

00:35:53.080 That's good. At least they have some standards. Okay, good. Keep those assholes the hell out.

00:35:58.820 So they are welcoming back COVID misinformation spreaders and election deniers back to their platform. 1.00

00:36:06.140 But guess what is also on their platform?

00:36:10.160 You are not going to be able to guess.

00:36:11.680 Let me just tell you, hyper-realistic AI-generated videos of women being shot in the head.

00:36:17.680 Oh, my gosh.

00:36:19.440 So we talked earlier this summer about how some folks were using Google's new AI video content generation tool, VO3,

00:36:28.740 to make very racist AI-generated videos of Black women as gorillas that flooded TikTok this summer.

00:36:35.280 And now there is an entire YouTube channel of just AI-generated videos of women being shot in the head.

00:36:42.920 The channel, named, I gotta say, aptly named, Woman Shot AI, started on June 20th of this year.

00:36:51.940 It posted 27 videos and had 1,000 subscribers.

00:36:55.680 And it had more than 175,000 views, according to the channel's publicly available data.

00:37:00.940 Now, major shout out to 404 Media for not only breaking this story, but also being the ones who had this channel taken down, because when 404 reached out to YouTube, YouTube took this channel down.

00:37:13.660 A YouTube spokesperson told 404 that it terminated the channel for violating its terms of service and specifically for operating a YouTube channel following a previous termination, meaning that this was not the first time that YouTube had to remove the person operating woman shot AI from the platform.

00:37:31.900 This channel is just gruesome.

00:37:34.820 404 reports that all of the videos posted by this channel all follow the exact same formula.

00:37:40.700 It is a nearly photorealistic video that shows a woman begging for her life while a man with a gun looms over her and then shoots her.

00:37:49.380 Some of the videos, they say, have different themes, like compilations of video game characters like Lara Croft being shot,

00:37:56.800 or, quote, Japanese schoolgirls being shot in breast or a sexy housewife shot in breast,

00:38:02.960 female reporter tragic end, and Russian soldiers shooting women with Ukrainian flags on their 0.87

00:38:08.860 chests. They even have a poll where viewers can ask what kind of women they want to see be shot 0.84

00:38:15.660 next, an Asian woman or even a Black woman who they describe with the N-word. How charming! 1.00

00:38:22.740 This is truly, when people talk about AI being the linchpin of our global economy,

00:38:29.040 this is the kind of content they're talking about.

00:38:32.020 Yeah, they're like poisoning entire cities in Tennessee so that we can have this content.

00:38:38.260 My God, this is horrific.

00:38:40.680 It's horrific.

00:38:41.200 What's also wild to me is that 404 points out whoever is running this account

00:38:45.840 also goes on YouTube and complains about the costs.

00:38:50.860 This person said, quote,

00:38:52.780 the AI I use is paid per account.

00:38:55.420 I have to spend around $300 per month,

00:38:58.120 even though one account can only generate

00:39:00.580 an eight second video three times,

00:39:03.040 the channel's owner wrote on a public post on YouTube.

00:39:06.160 So imagine how many times I generate a video once I upload.

00:39:09.860 I just want to say that every time I upload a compilation

00:39:12.760 consisting of several eight second clips,

00:39:15.160 it is not enough for just one account.

00:39:17.560 I have to spend quite a lot of money

00:39:19.240 just to have fun they said oh this poor guy wow he's just trying to do this community service of

00:39:26.260 creating this art for the world to enjoy i almost sort of it's almost comical that it's like oh i

00:39:32.380 am making this despicable ai content and consider the cost to me so all of this obviously goes

00:39:40.780 against google's policies but that has not stopped their tool from being used this way 404 actually

00:39:47.040 reached out to google who said our gen ai tools are built to follow the prompts a user provides

00:39:52.900 we have clear policies around their use that we work to enforce and the tools continually get

00:39:58.060 better at reflecting these policies so that that really says nothing that doesn't say anything at

00:40:02.520 all yeah i mean it's interesting that google is on both sides of this because it sounds like

00:40:11.060 Google is kind of implicitly acknowledging that their AI tools were used to generate this video.

00:40:17.440 Well, the videos have the Google VO3 watermark. So I don't think it's in dispute that that tool

00:40:23.800 is the tool that is being used to create these. I guess if I had to choose where they were going

00:40:29.000 to put their resources to prevent this content, it would be on the platform, right? Like the fact

00:40:35.520 that their tool created this and they're saying like, oh, well, our tool just follows the prompts

00:40:40.360 that people give it okay i guess but it feels to me like the responsibility they have for their

00:40:47.460 platform youtube which then surfaces these videos to mass numbers of people around the world is much

00:40:54.380 greater right like they have a much bigger responsibility there on their platforms to

00:41:00.420 prevent this kind of content and the fact that 404 had to reach out to them for them to take it down

00:41:05.600 at least they did take it down they didn't take the path of meta and be like this is fine this is

00:41:10.020 what people wanted. Women actually, if they don't want to be shot in the head, they really shouldn't 1.00

00:41:15.560 be reporting the news out in public. More after a quick break. 1.00

00:41:40.020 connection is everything run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more

00:41:46.360 americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as

00:41:51.160 the number one podcaster iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers

00:41:56.100 listen to they'll hear your message plus only iheart can extend your message to audiences across

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00:42:06.840 podcasting let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com when i was 14 years

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00:42:27.080 are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up

00:42:34.780 Don't say anything.

00:42:36.940 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

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00:43:00.300 There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:43:04.120 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:12.880 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:43:18.800 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives,

00:43:26.380 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:43:31.300 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:43:34.980 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:43:38.400 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.

00:43:41.980 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,

00:43:46.840 nothing is off the table.

00:43:48.320 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

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00:44:05.020 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:44:10.940 See you between the pages.

00:44:13.860 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:44:18.140 If you know me, you know I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:44:24.500 So this podcast lets us uncover those things together through meaningful conversations with fascinating people.

00:44:33.040 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:44:40.320 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:44:43.080 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:44:46.160 You have something in your guts.

00:44:47.920 You go with it.

00:44:48.860 And Shawn Johnson recalled the moment she realized her now husband, Andrew, was the one.

00:44:55.060 He was just so unapologetically himself and knew nothing of Hollywood.

00:44:59.480 He hadn't been on a plane before without his family.

00:45:02.980 It was so pure.

00:45:04.760 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:45:19.660 Let's get right back into it.

00:45:22.960 Okay, so I wanted to quickly talk about this Apple TV show that was pulled.

00:45:28.820 So the actress Jessica Chastain, her new show, The Safant, about homegrown extremist terrorism in the United States, was meant to be released today, Friday.

00:45:38.420 However, Apple TV pulled the show only days before it was due to be released.

00:45:43.580 And Jessica Chastain, unsurprisingly, is not happy.

00:45:47.580 happy. Chastain is also a producer on the show, and she put out a statement saying,

00:45:52.540 we are not aligned on the decision to pause the release of The Savant.

00:45:56.500 So the Apple TV show The Savant that was pulled was inspired by a true story as reported by

00:46:02.320 Cosmopolitan, in which Chastain plays an anti-extremism operative who infiltrates

00:46:08.040 white supremacist forums online to prevent explosive acts of violence. Chastain was not

00:46:14.220 only an actor in this show, she was also a producer, and unsurprisingly, she was not happy

00:46:19.860 that this show was pulled only days before it was meant to premiere. In a statement, she said,

00:46:25.600 these incidents, though far from encompassing the full range of violence witnessed in the United

00:46:29.960 States, illustrate a broader mindset that crosses the political spectrum and must be confronted.

00:46:35.220 I've never shied away from difficult subjects, and while I wish this show wasn't relevant,

00:46:39.720 Unfortunately, it is. The savant is about the heroes who work every day to stop violence before it happens, and honoring their courage feels more urgent than ever.

00:46:50.000 So I was really, when I saw this story, I was really curious what was going on. It's pretty unusual to pull a show that is already done and like ready to go just days before it's meant to premiere.

00:47:01.300 And Vulture reported that Apple might have pulled the plug because they felt cold feet about the climate that we're in currently, just realistically, where Trump is suing CBS News successfully and tried to sue the New York Times for billions of dollars.

00:47:16.380 And his FCC is pressuring media companies about their hiring and firing decisions.

00:47:21.000 Wolter writes,

00:47:22.180 It's not a huge leap to think that Apple TV+,

00:47:24.640 about to release a show that deals with political flashpoints

00:47:27.700 and fighting white supremacism,

00:47:29.440 might be wary of releasing it,

00:47:31.040 especially if it wants to stay on Trump's good side

00:47:33.480 whenever the president opens up to social

00:47:35.820 or announces the next tariff.

00:47:37.900 Apple TV+, has not commented on the release of The Savant

00:47:41.200 beyond its confirmation that the show was postponed.

00:47:44.660 It is sad and also not hugely surprising

00:47:49.520 that Apple TV would think twice

00:47:53.960 and be concerned that just airing this show

00:47:57.060 that addresses the existence

00:48:01.620 of white supremacist violence

00:48:03.520 might attract the ire of the Trump administration,

00:48:07.540 given how aggressively the administration

00:48:10.760 has just gone after critics in all areas,

00:48:17.680 especially in media.

00:48:19.120 Yeah, it's scary, but not surprising.

00:48:23.220 I don't know.

00:48:23.540 We almost like need a word for that.

00:48:25.160 Yeah, I agree.

00:48:26.240 But Jessica Chastain is right.

00:48:28.240 I cannot imagine a show that is more prescient and of the moment than a show that is about homegrown extremism.

00:48:36.300 We talked about this in our last news roundup that according to the Department of Justice, when it comes to homegrown terror, right wing homegrown extremism is the biggest bucket.

00:48:47.200 The Department of Justice did scrub that that study from their site, but that doesn't make it any less true. And I think Jessica Chastain is right that if I were Apple, I would want to be telling stories right now that are about this moment. And whether we like it or not, this is a story that is about the moment.

00:49:04.180 yeah absolutely it is i mean i totally agree there couldn't be anything more relevant to the

00:49:11.780 moment and i hope that apple publishes this i haven't even seen the show and also i sort of

00:49:19.480 resent that like here we are being asked to weigh in about like this show that we haven't even seen

00:49:25.360 it could be a bad show we don't know it could be a good show uh but it's just like being dragged

00:49:30.300 into this, like, us-versus-them discourse

00:49:35.660 that the Trump administration is so good at promoting,

00:49:40.280 it does drive me up a wall that they just are able to,

00:49:48.580 with their threats and their lawsuits,

00:49:53.340 bully so many people, including enormous media companies

00:49:58.740 that have the resources to resist it

00:50:01.020 and really should be resisting it,

00:50:04.120 but just like bully them into promoting

00:50:08.420 this fictional worldview that aligns

00:50:12.640 with how they want the world to be

00:50:14.640 that is just a step away from where we actually are.

00:50:20.480 Yes, and you really said it.

00:50:22.540 I obviously have not seen this series,

00:50:24.760 but what's obnoxious in addition to the idea

00:50:28.500 that these platforms and big organizations

00:50:30.800 that might be caving to the Trump administration,

00:50:32.560 if that's what's going on,

00:50:34.280 it forces you to root for content and people

00:50:37.400 and stories that you have not even seen.

00:50:40.000 You're like, I feel like I have to be like,

00:50:42.960 well, we need this story now more than ever.

00:50:47.420 I haven't even seen it.

00:50:48.960 People who don't want this kind of content

00:50:52.300 to get lots of eyeballs,

00:50:55.220 if anything, they should want this content

00:50:57.960 to be seen so that people can judge it on its actual merits when you don't let people see it

00:51:04.340 and don't let people actually make up their own mind about it and judge it by their merits.

00:51:08.300 It kind of martyrs the content unfairly. We were talking about this with the Jimmy Kimmel thing.

00:51:13.560 I mean, we did a whole episode about Jimmy Kimmel. I have not, I can't, I mean, I don't think I've

00:51:17.960 ever uttered the words, we have to watch Jimmy Kimmel tonight, but Trump's FCC taking Jimmy

00:51:25.640 Kimmel off the air. I was like, and we live in D.C. They weren't playing it. Our Sinclair

00:51:32.740 local affiliate was not playing it when I went to turn on the channel where Jimmy Kimmel's show

00:51:38.060 was meant to be. It happened to be a very flattering news broadcast about Trump, which

00:51:43.780 no surprise there, Trump and I are watching the same ABC affiliate. But I don't want to watch

00:51:50.160 Jimmy Kimmel's show. The fact that they were making me defended and making me curious to see

00:51:54.600 what they have to say that's really the big travesty here yeah it's nuts yeah i felt the

00:51:59.900 same way i was like it's my patriotic duty to watch jimmy kimmel's monologue what like i'm he's

00:52:06.560 been on the air for 23 years that shocked me when i learned that i i don't think i've ever watched

00:52:12.640 this monologue ever but i was like i must this as an american it is my duty to like protect freedom

00:52:19.660 of speech by watching this monologue even though Sinclair Broadcasting is trying to prevent me

00:52:25.400 specifically because they're trying to prevent me that's exactly the thing I was like like oh

00:52:29.820 gotta go to the VPN like how like how are we gonna watch this the fact that they were the fact that

00:52:34.700 some corporate interest was making it hard for me to watch it I was like oh now I have to watch it

00:52:41.080 even though I have never voluntarily or willingly watched a Jimmy Kimmel show in my life it's just

00:52:47.520 one more way that

00:52:48.880 everything is upside down

00:52:51.520 and insane right now. It's like hard to

00:52:53.540 keep one's head

00:52:55.060 I don't know

00:52:56.820 rooted, grounded

00:52:59.500 we're all

00:53:01.740 just trying to get by

00:53:03.300 I don't even know

00:53:05.640 where I'm going with this but I guess

00:53:07.100 I'm watching Jimmy Kimmel now

00:53:08.920 Maybe the rapture did

00:53:11.560 happen and this is purgatory

00:53:13.080 I have thought that several times

00:53:14.980 maybe we all did die

00:53:17.020 something happened and we're all just that's why things feel so weird right now because this is

00:53:23.460 purgatory oh my god i think you're right and jimmy kimmel is on every night we all have to watch him

00:53:29.840 it is our duty we're required to watch jimmy kimmel because it is purgatory okay when i was

00:53:36.040 scrolling the news for not negative stories to talk about i found one story courtesy of matthew

00:53:43.440 Galt at 404 Media. Shout out to them because I feel like we would not be able to do any kind of

00:53:48.060 a podcast if not for 404. We are subscribers. Become a subscriber. We love them. But they

00:53:54.060 published a story that I feel was made in a lab for me. We have talked about stories where I feel

00:53:59.940 like they were made in a lab specifically to make me mad. This might be the first story that I feel

00:54:05.520 was made in a lab specifically to pique my interest. Will you allow me this? Oh, it's a

00:54:13.180 little unorthodox but proceed this is me doing my best snl stefan this story has everything

00:54:19.840 reddit drama yes please about a david lynch subreddit yes please but i'm sorry bridget

00:54:25.840 this is not a gay enough stefan i'm gonna need you to step it up a little bit oh this is a story

00:54:31.900 about reddit drama yes please about a david lynch subreddit yes please that is revolting because of 0.99

00:54:39.480 rules around ai content give it to me inject it right into my goddamn veins so the moderators 0.66

00:54:46.320 at the subreddit for the david lynch show that originally aired in the 90s finn peak

00:54:50.720 started allowing ai content mike did you watch twin peaks i did not watch it when it originally

00:54:57.220 aired but i have watched it three times from beginning to end uh as like a re-watch and

00:55:05.520 i love it it is a great show that second season you know halfway through when they got rid of

00:55:10.460 david lynch it kind of took a turn and like we could do without the chess playing subplot but

00:55:17.400 like it is a great show uh i i could go on and on about twin peaks love it it is great it is great

00:55:25.120 and so i will say people who like david lynch like myself we are uh we are a weird bunch i

00:55:35.000 guess i'll just put it that way like we're a particular bunch david people who like david

00:55:38.900 lynch david lynch fans we really like david lynch so when the subreddit for the david lynch show

00:55:45.600 twin peaks started allowing ai content in protest these like very very dedicated david lynch fans

00:55:53.120 started flooding the subreddit with ai generated twin peak flop we'll put some of them in the show

00:56:00.720 notes but they are i almost like them they're so they're so strange and there are such strange

00:56:09.840 pieces of ai slop content about a piece of media that was already strange in its own way

00:56:15.960 that i almost sort of and michael this is art but all kind of okay well we're going in a different

00:56:21.520 direction now but like yeah that does sound interesting now i kind of want to see them

00:56:25.160 We'll put some of them in the show notes. 0.88

00:56:27.960 But so the big question here is, did David Lynch fuck with AI? 0.58

00:56:33.540 It's a little bit in dispute. 0.95

00:56:34.820 After Lynch died this year, a few interviews and clips and things resurfaced that kind of made it sound like David Lynch liked AI.

00:56:43.680 And people really ran with this to make the late David Lynch the mascot for AI art and pro AI sentiments in art, which to me is creepy.

00:56:54.940 because David Lynch has passed away.

00:56:57.360 He is not around to weigh in or say

00:56:59.900 whether or not he actually genuinely likes this,

00:57:02.500 whether or not these comments were, you know,

00:57:04.640 aligned with how he actually feels.

00:57:06.320 Yeah, I do agree with you there.

00:57:08.840 I think it is messed up to use a dead person

00:57:11.700 in like an activist way to advocate for like a new technology.

00:57:16.120 That doesn't feel right.

00:57:17.840 That does not feel like honoring a legacy

00:57:20.180 that feels like expropriating.

00:57:22.120 Especially a new technology that so many creatives and artists have been really clear about the fact exploits their work, steals their work without credit or compensation.

00:57:32.980 I just don't feel great about this.

00:57:36.720 And one of the people who has kind of done this is Natasha Lyonne, who I love.

00:57:42.360 In a Vulture piece, they describe Natasha Lyonne, who herself was working on an AI film production company with her partner, filmmaker and entrepreneur Brian Moser.

00:57:51.720 Folks might recall that Natasha Lyonne was sort of called out for this, but then she said that this project is sort of meant to be a more ethical AI creative project because they say that all of their AI is trained on content that creatives consented to be used in this way.

00:58:08.720 So this vulture piece says that not long ago, Natasha Lyonne had an opportunity to speak with David Lynch, one of the giants of a previous generation of filmmakers and an early convert to digital cameras.

00:58:19.240 Before he died, Lynch had banned Natasha Lyonne's neighbor.

00:58:23.140 One day last year, Natasha Lyonne asked David Lynch for his thoughts on AI.

00:58:27.700 She says that Lynch picked up a pencil and said, Natasha, this is a pencil.

00:58:32.700 Everyone has access to a pencil.

00:58:35.180 And likewise, everyone with a phone will be using AI if they are not already.

00:58:40.000 It's how you use the pencil, he told her.

00:58:42.540 You see?

00:58:43.520 Yeah, we've had other guests on the show who've made a similar argument,

00:58:47.360 You know, making the analogy that AI is like drum machines or synthesizers and that it's just a tool for making art and that real artists will take it and run with it and use it to create great art.

00:59:00.400 uh i'm somewhat sympathetic to that or at least i i maybe was more so in the past but we've also

00:59:08.760 heard from people on this show who say that that that analogy is deceptive because you don't need

00:59:14.780 to rip off artists to build a drum machine or synthesizer and that actually that analogy is

00:59:20.280 like oversimplifying in a way that really biases towards ai in a way that is not great so uh some

00:59:27.720 of those people? Are you the AI is an inherently parasitic technology and that there is no ethical

00:59:33.260 way to use it for art or anything else? Yeah, it's kind of complicated. And, you know, I could see

00:59:42.060 people coming down on one side or the other of it. But again, it feels a little weird to be

00:59:48.960 invoking a dead man on one side of the argument. Yes. You know, I love Natasha Lyonne, but I'm a

00:59:57.000 cheerleader is like queer cinema canon however if you were asking for just Bridget's old opinion on 0.93

01:00:05.120 this I do think Natasha Lyonne is being a little bit self-serving here I think that when she got 0.97

01:00:11.520 some heat for this AI production company that she's doing with her partner I think that quoting

01:00:18.580 David Lynch conveniently after he was no longer alive to push back or offer any context was a way

01:00:25.080 to add a little bit of indie street cred to this project that she was otherwise being criticized

01:00:30.520 for. I do think that's a little bit of what's going on. And I think the fact that David Lynch

01:00:36.400 has become kind of this pro-AI in art mascot in death is concerning for me. 404 reports that an

01:00:45.880 image in a pro-AI art subreddit depicts Lynch wearing an open AI t-shirt and pointing at us,

01:00:53.140 the viewer saying you can't be punk and also be anti-AI, AI-phobic, or an AI denier. It's

01:01:00.980 impossible. Nothing like somebody in an open AI t-shirt telling me what isn't isn't punk.

01:01:06.820 Yeah, I don't like it. No, that's kind of gross. So in any event, the Twin Peaks subreddit moderator 0.71

01:01:16.640 posted an announcement this week that opened the doors to AI in the subreddit. So in a now-deleted

01:01:22.760 post titled AI generated content on our Twin Peaks. The moderator outlined the position that

01:01:28.240 the sub was a place for everyone to share memes, theories, and anything remotely creative as long

01:01:33.140 as it has loose strings to the show, or in this case, its themes. AI generated content is included

01:01:38.500 in all of this. We are aware of how AI art and AI generated content can hurt real artists, the post

01:01:44.120 said. Unfortunately, this is just the reality of the world we live in today. And at this point,

01:01:49.360 I don't think anything can stop the AI train from coming.

01:01:52.460 It's here.

01:01:53.060 This is only the beginning.

01:01:54.320 AI content is becoming harder and harder to identify.

01:01:57.340 They also asked folks in the sub to be cool.

01:02:00.180 They said there's going to be an honor system where if you post AI content, you've got to

01:02:05.900 label it.

01:02:06.920 So, you know, this moderator said you can't stop the AI train from coming.

01:02:13.000 Guess who could stop the AI train from coming in this David Lynch subreddit?

01:02:17.600 uh can you guess was it the subredditors themselves it was the subredditors themselves

01:02:24.960 i know that you love acts of malicious compliance i almost think this was a kind of malicious

01:02:30.120 compliance issue oh my god i love reddit so much i love the community on reddit like everybody is

01:02:35.760 so like petty and shitty and mean but in like a really creative way it's it's like perfect for

01:02:42.500 me. It is where I want to be on the internet. It is, I know Reddit has had problems in the past 0.59

01:02:48.220 couple of years, and I can certainly complain about things, but the community on Reddit is

01:02:53.400 like what the internet is when it's at its best, in my opinion. Oh, I agree. And as somebody who

01:02:59.740 has worked on platform moderation for many years, people often ask me, what are some platforms that

01:03:04.980 are doing it right? I have lots of thoughts about how Reddit is doing in this iteration when it

01:03:11.060 comes to things like ai content that notwithstanding and like five years ago i would have said reddit

01:03:16.580 for sure yeah so back to this story then so uh okay that the moderator posted this note that

01:03:23.340 was like ai is cool can't stop the freight train so how did people respond they really showed what

01:03:31.920 it looks like when no one can stop the ai train from coming by flooding the subreddit with

01:03:37.980 horrifying ai generated twin peaks and david lynch slop in protest including horrifying pictures

01:03:46.300 of the series protagonist cooper doing an end zone dance on a football field while laura palmer

01:03:52.720 screamed in the sky and many many many awful chat gpt generated scripts oh my god you use the word

01:04:00.900 horrifying so many times that i am like really excited to check this out yeah it's i can't i

01:04:05.440 can't describe it people need to see it for themselves i can i i almost sort of feel in the

01:04:10.980 lynchian way it kind it's so bad it has flipped back around to is this art for me i'll just say

01:04:19.740 that so the moderator of the twin peak subreddit actually resigned over this they explained what

01:04:26.140 happened in an interview with 404 and said that the post that they made about accepting ai content

01:04:31.320 was not run by other moderators of the team.

01:04:34.320 They said it was poorly worded,

01:04:36.220 a bad take on a bad stance,

01:04:37.940 and it blew up in their face.

01:04:39.340 It's viral because it was condescending

01:04:41.280 and basically told the community,

01:04:43.020 we don't care that it's theft,

01:04:44.460 that it's unethical.

01:04:45.460 We'll just flare it so you can filter it out.

01:04:47.740 They missed the point that AI art

01:04:49.520 steals from legit artists

01:04:50.860 and damages the environment.

01:04:53.260 Well, that's a nice statement of contrition, I guess.

01:04:58.340 like it sounds like the moderator who posted that thing realized that it was out of step

01:05:04.000 with what the community wanted and expected and like legitimately tried to acknowledge

01:05:11.740 their concerns and wrote an apology that this sounds like a nice story.

01:05:16.220 I think it kind of is.

01:05:18.240 It does sound like that they had been internally debating whether or not to ban AI content

01:05:23.480 and what to do about AI content and that this one moderator just sort of jumped the gun.

01:05:27.160 obviously the subreddit reversed course and put out a new statement saying that going forward

01:05:32.660 posts including generative AI art or chat GPT cell content were going to be disallowed but I think

01:05:39.320 it's a good example of when people say oh you can't stop the AI train I don't think that that's

01:05:45.460 really a thoughtful statement and I think the fact that this this it's pretty low stakes but

01:05:50.820 the fact that this subreddit rose up and was like let us show you what if you're saying that you that

01:05:55.360 we just have to accept that ai art is the future let me show you what that future actually looks

01:06:01.520 like and you tell me if that's a future that you actually want for this community yeah it's a nice

01:06:07.580 example of organizing in a creative way for community to democratically enforce the the

01:06:18.860 standards that it wants to exist for itself and so bravo david lynch community or whatever

01:06:26.960 whatever subreddit this was i think david lynch would be proud i mean who can say dude's dead

01:06:32.900 okay before we go i did want to just make one quick announcement which is do you know those

01:06:40.360 podcasts where they'll do mailbag episodes where it's just an episode where we answer your questions

01:06:46.020 I want to do one of those.

01:06:47.600 I don't think we've ever done on it.

01:06:49.880 We've been on the air since 2020.

01:06:52.160 That's five years.

01:06:54.120 I don't, we've gotten a slew of new listeners.

01:06:56.780 New listeners, thank you.

01:06:58.160 We love you.

01:06:59.020 And old listeners, thanks for rocking with us.

01:07:01.260 We love you too.

01:07:02.540 But people might have questions.

01:07:05.160 People might want to know who we are, why we do what we do.

01:07:09.460 I don't really talk a ton about anything involving my actual offline life.

01:07:15.820 So people might have questions about who the hell I am, why they should listen to me.

01:07:19.880 If you are listening and you have questions, whether it's about me, our team, how the show

01:07:25.280 comes together, why the show exists, or things about things that are happening online, things

01:07:30.380 that you want to know my takes on, on our big, wide internet and social media landscape

01:07:35.760 and ecosystem, let us know.

01:07:37.840 I want to do a mailbag episode, but I don't want to do it where it's just like, oh, we've

01:07:42.600 got a vacation coming up and I got to scrounge something together.

01:07:45.320 Or let me just go through random emails that we've gotten.

01:07:47.800 I want to seed actual good questions.

01:07:51.680 And if we don't get good questions, we don't have to do it.

01:07:53.440 And if people don't want to do a mailbag episode, we don't have to do that either.

01:07:56.060 What do you think, Mike?

01:07:56.880 I think it's a great idea.

01:07:57.760 We do get some great emails from, you know, some really thoughtful listeners who often they're like sharing interesting stuff with us.

01:08:07.900 And, you know, sometimes we respond.

01:08:09.780 I apologize that we aren't able to respond to all of them.

01:08:12.360 But, like, people write in with really interesting things to say, but not often questions.

01:08:18.700 So I think this is a good idea, Bridget.

01:08:21.100 I think let's invite listeners to write in with whatever questions they have.

01:08:25.880 Oh, and it doesn't have to be a question.

01:08:27.840 If you just, if you, because people will send us emails, and unless they explicitly say, I want this to be read on the podcast, I won't.

01:08:35.080 I will assume that people don't want it to be read on the podcast.

01:08:37.680 But if you do want it to be right on the podcast, even if it's not a question, it's just something you want out there.

01:08:44.020 I'll read that.

01:08:44.920 Why not?

01:08:45.820 Should we give people like a deadline?

01:08:48.180 Because I feel like that motivates me to make things happen.

01:08:50.940 If I don't have deadlines, I don't do anything.

01:08:52.700 Let me pull up the calendar.

01:08:54.800 Yeah, let's pull up the calendar.

01:08:56.360 A super producer over here.

01:08:57.560 Okay, how about, okay, today is the 25th.

01:09:00.800 We're recording on the 25th.

01:09:02.440 By the 10th of October.

01:09:05.300 if you've got an email that you specifically want engaged with on the podcast in an episode

01:09:11.780 shoot us an email if it comes late that's also fine because i am also not going to the deadline

01:09:16.740 but if you we we want to hear from you so the 10th would be a that's a soft deadline uh it's a hard

01:09:23.440 deadline i'm gonna i'm gonna pull producer rank here say it's gonna be a hard deadline uh i think

01:09:28.540 it's a reasonable one so yeah right in by october 10th it gives you almost like it's like a full

01:09:35.360 two weeks yeah right in we would love to hear from each and every one of you uh listeners are

01:09:42.900 the best uh thank you so much for listening and for allowing us to do this show you know i

01:09:49.300 for me this is the ability to do this show is like one of the the more gratifying things i've

01:09:56.020 ever done in my professional life and it's so touching that listeners want to listen to it uh

01:10:01.680 week after week so thank you very much yeah i know it's cheesy at the end of podcasts where

01:10:07.000 the host just gushes about the listeners but it truly it's the reason i do this i wouldn't like

01:10:14.080 if you all i am so lucky that people listen to this show i am so lucky i get to make this show

01:10:22.000 I'm so lucky I get to work with you Mike Joey Tari Jonathan our whole team I cannot believe I

01:10:30.520 get to do this I cannot believe anybody listens to this show listens to what we have to say

01:10:34.240 but I'm so glad that you do and we wouldn't be doing any of this without you and I don't say

01:10:39.200 that in the sort of way that people say it on podcasts but I genuinely mean it it really does

01:10:45.640 mean so much and especially when things are hard it's it's hard we're in these hard times or it's

01:10:51.740 hard to find things to latch on to that don't make you feel like flinging yourself off of a building

01:10:57.240 and for me it is the listeners and it is this podcast so yeah yeah i want to give people a

01:11:03.580 prompt because i think that might help facilitate some emails because i want to get a lot of them

01:11:08.140 what's your okay yeah this is we're doing this in real time so i kind of sprung this on you mike so

01:11:13.380 i'm i'm impressed that you had a prompt ready to go what is one thing about the internet that

01:11:19.180 like brings you joy gives you hope makes you feel good oh i love it yeah okay well hopeful

01:11:26.360 semi-hopeful mailbag episode coming soon and this one doesn't have to be hopeful we'll take

01:11:31.840 whatever we'll take whatever you got give us your emails we'll read them on the show we'll do a

01:11:36.500 mailbag episode thank you so much for listening mike thank you for being here we will see you on

01:11:42.280 the internet.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - September 26, 2025

Charlie Kirk Snitch App Data Leak; TikTok Rapture; David Lynch AI Reddit Revolt; Meta Exploits Parents' Photos – NEWS ROUNDUP

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