There Are No Girls on the Internet - April 28, 2026


Clavicular, looksmaxxing, and how extremists hijack the algorithm

Topics
MrBeast Under Fire; Hailey Bieber Dogpile; “Emily Hart” and the AI MAGA scam – NEWS ROUNDUP Taylor Swift vs AI Scams; Epstein friendship w Peter Thiel; Andrew Tate loses lawsuit - NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Stats


Length

48 minutes

Words per minute

162.29

Word count

7,831

Sentence count

441

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

4

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:50.080 I survived nine months in captivity,
00:00:53.240 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:58.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:01:02.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:01:09.920 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
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00:01:21.360 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:01:27.080 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:35.740 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
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00:01:45.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:51.700 Just a quick heads up, but today's episode mentions self-harm and disordered eating.
00:01:56.400 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:02:08.280 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:02:13.660 This is part two of a two-part episode about Brayden Peters, a.k.a. Clavicular,
00:02:20.300 the looks-maxing influencer who recently experienced an overdose on a live stream.
00:02:25.900 If you have not listened to part one, you should.
00:02:29.380 In that part one, we walk through who Peters is and how he rose to prominence online.
00:02:34.820 And in this second part, I want to talk about the role that I think the mainstream media played in that rise.
00:02:40.920 And it didn't even really start with coverage of Peters.
00:02:44.300 Let's take it back to how mainstream outlets were writing about the rise of the so-called alt-right a few years ago.
00:02:50.200 So let's talk about the role that media plays in turning niche extremists like Brayden Peters, also known as Clavicular Online, into celebrity figures.
00:03:04.540 I need to own that it's a little bit complicated because I also do feel that we spent far too much time doing that thing where media says, oh, we're going to ignore these extremist figures and just allow them to amass more and more power and influence without any kind of mainstream scrutiny.
00:03:22.720 And then by the time this figure is big and they're everywhere all over the Internet, then mainstream media is talking about them.
00:03:29.060 But by then, it's way too late.
00:03:30.320 They're very powerful.
00:03:31.400 I saw that a lot, and I think it was a big mistake. But it's also not like the only two choices are either media ignores figures like Peter's as they get bigger and bigger, or they have to cover them, but they have no choice but to do so in ways that essentially celebrate them or almost kind of sound like they're advocating for them or that they think that the audience should be sort of flattered or interested in them.
00:03:57.200 where they're essentially doing positive PR for these folks and helping them build their brands.
00:04:02.920 Like, I think there has got to be a line between writing critically about these figures
00:04:06.660 and essentially doing the work of building up their platforms on their behalf.
00:04:11.160 And this is a conversation that really predates the rise of Peters.
00:04:15.500 This is probably not the first example of this or the only example of this,
00:04:19.360 but the one that sticks with me very personally is back in 2016
00:04:23.020 when Mother Jones wrote about Richard Spencer and the rise of the so-called alt-right.
00:04:29.860 Now, to be clear, having read the whole piece, it is like critical of the alt-right and critical
00:04:34.840 of figures like Spencer. But the headline for the piece was like, check out these dapper new
00:04:40.920 Nazis strolling into town. It was actually a little bit hard to find the actual article because
00:04:46.540 they did change the title on the piece that ran online eventually, but they didn't remove it from
00:04:51.060 the Instagram and we dug and we dug and we were able to find it. And again, I would say the piece
00:04:56.840 is critical of the alt-right, but the first few sentences are like describing Richard Spencer
00:05:03.860 in this beautiful hotel room, eating fancy sushi with chopsticks. And he almost sounds like a
00:05:11.500 lifestyle influencer or a menswear influencer and not a hate monger. And so again, the piece itself
00:05:19.640 was critical, but the headline in the image of Spencer in this like dapper suit, also with a
00:05:25.640 subhead that again, calls him handsome and dapper and says that they're trying to make fascism cool
00:05:30.600 again. That's what people share on social media. It's the headline and the image. And so even if
00:05:36.740 the piece goes on to be critical, which in this case it did, the conversation that's building up 0.71
00:05:41.180 around the piece kind of sounds like, look at these cool, handsome Nazis, which yuck. And to me, 0.80
00:05:49.060 that kind of came to represent the pinnacle of the bad job media has done when it comes to how
00:05:55.240 we talk about these folks critically. In the same way that I think it was very irresponsible for the
00:06:00.260 New York Times to call Peters a handsomeness influencer in that big profile of him that
00:06:06.520 really helped build his platform, I also did not think it was appropriate to frame the alt-right
00:06:12.000 as almost like a dapper menswear club. I'm not saying that these folks should not be written
00:06:17.700 about. I think they absolutely should be written about because they deserve mainstream scrutiny
00:06:22.400 and we should know who they are. But writing about them like this is a choice. Writing about
00:06:27.840 them in this way that builds their brands for them is a choice. Right. And in some of these
00:06:32.940 cases, it almost seems like the media outlets themselves, like in that New York Times example,
00:06:38.460 want to be apolitical, right?
00:06:41.840 Like, just reporting on this guy,
00:06:45.120 doing this thing,
00:06:46.500 no deeper thought about it.
00:06:49.360 And that's, in my opinion,
00:06:51.180 a really disappointing approach
00:06:54.120 to journalism, right?
00:06:55.700 Like, with Mother Jones
00:06:56.960 writing about Richard Spencer,
00:06:58.680 I think they got it wrong
00:06:59.960 because I don't,
00:07:01.480 my understanding is that Mother Jones
00:07:03.160 is, like, pretty solidly anti-Nazi, right?
00:07:06.760 Like, it is a publication
00:07:07.500 that is solidly anti-Nazi.
00:07:09.780 And so they got that wrong.
00:07:11.320 These more recent pieces about Peters,
00:07:15.720 I don't have that same confidence
00:07:17.620 that they view this stuff as harmful.
00:07:20.380 It almost seems like they're flirting with it
00:07:23.660 as harmless or okay or worth it
00:07:27.600 or somehow acceptable.
00:07:29.820 Like it feels like some of them
00:07:31.420 are almost actively trying to whitewash it
00:07:34.660 and make it more acceptable.
00:07:35.740 Yes, because this is somebody who objectively pushes white supremacist ideology. This is somebody who is publicly engaged in self-harm and the harm of others. Choosing in the title or the subhead of your piece to describe him as just somebody who promotes handsomeness? Come on, you know?
00:07:54.840 And I think this gets back to my opinion, I guess my take, is that I think a lot of legacy media organizations, they're doing that because they understand that framing it that way gets more engagement.
00:08:07.820 If you were to frame it as a critical piece about somebody who is unwell and engages in self-harm and the harm of others, I don't think that's as edgy as describing it as, oh, this handsome guy who has kind of an unusual worldview and an unusual pastime and practice around self-improvement.
00:08:28.000 I mean, it almost kind of feels like a certain type of access journalism, but the access that they're trying to get is access to somebody who was clearly unwell.
00:08:36.680 It is definitely a tricky, fine line to walk of like how journalists should be covering people like this. But to your point, I think it seems clear that the coverage that Peters has gotten over the past week is not the way, right? Like it seems like this is not the way and we all need to learn how to cover it better.
00:09:01.820 Yes, and I'm glad that you put it that way
00:09:03.660 because I'm not pretending like I have all the answers.
00:09:06.760 I certainly don't.
00:09:08.020 Even the Louis Thoreau Manosphere documentary
00:09:10.460 that we mentioned,
00:09:11.420 I read and heard a lot of criticism saying
00:09:14.820 that documentary was a failure
00:09:16.420 because it just ended up giving these guys
00:09:18.100 exactly what they wanted,
00:09:19.240 which is a bigger platform and another stage, right?
00:09:21.640 I personally did not happen to agree with that take,
00:09:24.780 but I understand that take.
00:09:26.600 And I wanted to say that because it is complicated.
00:09:30.120 It is a fine line to walk.
00:09:32.400 It does become difficult to know when you have crossed over into giving somebody a platform
00:09:37.360 or amplifying them versus engaging in like important criticism or like critique or scrutiny
00:09:42.960 with them.
00:09:43.500 I absolutely own that that is a tough line to walk, but I know it's not calling them
00:09:48.540 a handsomeness influencer.
00:09:50.000 I know it's not obscuring the fact that this is somebody who is engaging in an act of self-harm
00:09:54.840 and harming others on camera, right?
00:09:56.760 Like, I know that it is complicated, but it's work that needs to be done and it's worth figuring out because we're going to just see more and more and more of these figures rising to prominence.
00:10:07.240 And I know that this is not the right way to do it.
00:10:10.460 Yeah. And I agree that it's going to become an even bigger problem because there's just so much reward to be had.
00:10:18.380 If you're like a mid-tier influencer and you look at this enormous run of success that Peters has had over the past week where he has shot to national attention and celebrity, emulating that probably looks like a pretty good idea, right?
00:10:36.420 And I think people in traditional media really need to think carefully about making sure that they aren't setting themselves up to be gamed by smart, savvy, young influencer types who are taking notes and behaving in ways specifically to get this kind of attention because it is so rewarding.
00:11:02.320 Exactly. So let's break that down because I want to be clear. It's not like Peters was a complete nobody. He has over a million followers across platforms. He is and was genuinely influential within the looks-maxing community. But that context that you just brought up really matters a lot.
00:11:23.240 So if we compare him to other major manosphere influencers, Andrew Tate has tens of millions of followers and clearly has mainstream political access.
00:11:33.720 Jordan Peterson, he has a book empire, major interviewers, even folks that I would categorize as sort of mid-tier figures like Fresh and Fit.
00:11:42.000 They have much larger, more established fan bases than Peters ever had.
00:11:47.720 Before December 2025, about the time when Peters was on my radar, he was very known within his subculture, but basically not really that known outside of it.
00:11:59.440 Unless you were somebody who was following online niche subcultures and that, like unless you were someone like me who was like in the trenches, you probably didn't know who this guy was.
00:12:08.980 And what happened to change that?
00:12:11.440 I would argue press coverage.
00:12:13.720 Because let's look at this timeline. 0.63
00:12:15.880 November 2025, Peters injects his underage girlfriend with peptides on stream.
00:12:21.760 Mostly that controversy stays internal.
00:12:24.760 December 24th, 2025, Peters is live streaming himself, driving a cyber truck in Miami.
00:12:30.500 He seemingly hits someone on the live stream, goes viral.
00:12:35.720 Late December through January of this year, The Atlantic, The Guardian, Rolling Stone,
00:12:41.080 and the New York Times simultaneously all begin working on major profiles of him. 0.96
00:12:46.360 By January 2026, Thomas Chatterton Williams of The Atlantic, who I fucking hate, 0.63
00:12:52.000 calls Peters the newest star and most recognizable member of the looks-maxing movement. 0.88
00:12:57.160 But recognizable to whom?
00:12:59.320 I would argue that he became recognizable because these publications said that he was recognizable,
00:13:04.740 said that he was somebody that you needed to know about.
00:13:07.260 February 2026, The New York Times publishes its major profile by Joseph Bernstein.
00:13:13.320 Peters is now earning $100,000 a month.
00:13:16.560 Also in February, Peters walks New York Fashion Week for designer Elena Velez.
00:13:21.320 This is just days after his arrest in Arizona.
00:13:23.720 By late March of 2026, The New York Times devotes a full episode of The Daily to Peters and Looksmaxing.
00:13:31.760 And then that leads us to just last week, April 14th, 2026, Peters is hospitalized for a suspected drug overdose while live streaming.
00:13:41.980 So to me, that paints a very clear timeline of the fact that, you know, this guy's increasingly extreme behavior plus mainstream media attention is what led to his celebrity really growing.
00:13:58.520 Sophia Tespe wrote a really sharp piece of media criticism for Salon on April 6,
00:14:03.420 2026, where she compared the coverage of Peters to this infamous 2017 New York Times profile
00:14:09.560 of Tony Hovater, who is a neo-Nazi welder in Ohio. The profile talked about how much this
00:14:16.000 guy loved Seinfeld and how much he liked the store Target. And the Times got into trouble
00:14:21.660 for basically normalizing white nationalism. At Salon, Tespe writes, quote,
00:14:27.480 if Charlottesville taught journalists to be wary of amplifying ideology, the current moment demands
00:14:33.180 an understanding that in an attention economy, amplification itself is the ideology. And I
00:14:39.360 completely agree with that. Again, I am not saying that these people should not be scrutinized,
00:14:45.000 should not be written about, but it is a choice to write about them in a kind of way that just
00:14:49.880 amplifies and does the work of what they're trying to do for them, that helps them launder
00:14:54.480 their ideologies for audiences and make those ideologies seem cool or handsome or sexy or
00:15:02.000 whatever. That's such a good comparison to that 2017 profile. I remember that, you know, this was
00:15:08.360 shortly after Trump had been elected to his first term. And there was like this national
00:15:15.940 movement seemingly to like normalize extremists and make people with neo-Nazi beliefs seem as if
00:15:29.380 they were mainstream. And that was about 10 years ago. And so it's interesting to think about that
00:15:35.600 example and compare it with Peter's, what's happening today, because there are so many
00:15:41.460 similarities to the underlying ideology as you've described but like the face of it has evolved
00:15:48.860 possibly because it's been struck by a hammer possibly for other reasons most likely because
00:15:54.960 people have gotten wise and that sort of stuff just doesn't play so well anymore maybe hopefully
00:16:04.360 I think you're right and I guess that's why I keep bringing it back to this gender lens because 0.90
00:16:09.980 I really do think that if you took a woman, an influencer whose claim to fame was disordered 0.72
00:16:15.500 eating and promoting disordered eating for others, I don't think we would see these outlets
00:16:20.520 covering it the same way. We have women influencers, people like Liv Schmidt, who we've talked about
00:16:25.360 on the podcast before, who their whole thing is being super thin and promoting disordered 1.00
00:16:31.220 eating to others. And you don't see the New York Times calling them, you know, beauty influencers
00:16:36.260 or influencers who promote beauty,
00:16:38.180 they're talked about in ways that I think make clear
00:16:41.660 that they are promoting self-harm and self-harm tactics.
00:16:46.220 And so just as somebody who came of internet age
00:16:49.380 in the Tumblr days, I remember so clearly
00:16:52.220 these, they used to call pro-Anna accounts,
00:16:56.200 Tumblr accounts that glorified
00:16:58.220 and promoted disordered eating.
00:17:00.660 It was a real cesspool.
00:17:03.780 It's kind of coming back in the form of skinny talk.
00:17:06.560 But we did not also have a mainstream media that was amplifying this and laundering this as a cool or sexy or reasonable thing to do like we do now.
00:17:18.820 And so I think if you looked at Peter's documented behavior from that lens and not from an entertainment lens, it becomes so clear how irresponsible it is to divorce what Peter's actually promotes and stands for from all of the harmful behaviors that it actually is.
00:17:36.360 So, you know, self-administering steroid injections starting at age 14, using methamphetamines to suppress appetites for appearance goals, bone smashing, hitting himself in the face with a hammer to change his bone structure.
00:17:49.300 Obviously, doctors have said don't do that because it causes fractures that can heal properly, can cause permanent nerve damage and disfigurement.
00:17:58.380 And on top of that, there is no scientific basis for it even working to make you look a certain way.
00:18:05.080 injecting unregulated substances into his own body
00:18:08.580 and the body of others, including minors, without medical training,
00:18:12.240 and looking at the circumstances regarding his recent overdose.
00:18:15.920 When that happened, Peters posted to X with blood on his face,
00:18:20.200 writing, quote,
00:18:20.920 The worst part of tonight was my face descending from the life support mask.
00:18:28.960 Let's take a quick break.
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00:19:36.400 If your bookshelf and your For You page
00:19:38.400 are equally important to your personality,
00:19:40.820 welcome home.
00:19:42.340 This is Prose Society,
00:19:44.580 the weekly podcast that's part book club,
00:19:46.980 part group chat for thought daughters,
00:19:48.760 pop culture obsessives,
00:19:49.960 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice
00:19:51.760 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:19:54.720 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week,
00:19:56.480 we're connecting the dots between books,
00:19:58.100 the internet, and the conversations
00:19:59.900 everyone can't stop having.
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00:20:34.440 See you between the pages.
00:20:36.500 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:20:42.320 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring
00:20:45.040 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:20:48.780 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:20:52.260 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99
00:20:57.880 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99
00:21:00.820 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:21:05.100 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:21:09.660 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:21:17.100 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:21:20.920 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:21:24.040 There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:21:28.200 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,
00:21:32.920 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:21:41.860 And we're back.
00:21:45.460 Dr. Justin Nepa, who is a board-certified psychiatrist in Florida,
00:21:49.380 wrote a clinical analysis of Luxmaxing in March, and he said,
00:21:52.600 What often begins as an innocent foray into better grooming or fitness can quickly spiral into a severe cycle of body dysmorphic disorder, depression, substance abuse, and self-harm.
00:22:03.900 He also said that he has seen young men spend three to four hours daily analyzing their facial features, measuring jawlines with calipers, and comparing themselves to digitally altered images.
00:22:15.600 This creates masculine demoralization.
00:22:17.940 And again, if you were a young woman who came of age when I did at a time when magazine covers were all making it very clear that the most important thing that you could be was like super skinny to be hot, this behavior, it doesn't seem that foreign to me.
00:22:36.880 But then you have mainstream platforms trying to make it seem like this is reasonable or even safe or healthy behavior, that it's just, you know, regular grooming or regular self-improvement when it isn't.
00:22:49.960 Body dysmorphic disorder affects about 2% of the general population.
00:22:53.920 In heavy social media users, that figure more than doubles to 4.2%.
00:22:58.300 40% of BDD sufferers are men.
00:23:02.240 Studies consistently show that individuals with untreated BDD who undergo cosmetic procedures experience no improvement or worsening of symptoms.
00:23:12.080 Peters has had multiple of these procedures.
00:23:13.980 So, again, it's not like something where you can get the procedure, get the jawline, get the thing that you've been holding out for, and then a switch flips and you're fine.
00:23:25.440 In fact, the data seems to be pretty clear that that's actually not what happens.
00:23:28.480 It's a consistent hamster wheel where the point is trying to achieve the status of perfection, but perfection does not really exist.
00:23:38.000 So it's going to continue to be increasing, increasing things with a never-ending cycle.
00:23:43.580 A 2025 peer-reviewed paper called Looks Maxing, colon, straddling the inflection between self-enhancement and self-harm,
00:23:50.400 directly associates this content with body dissatisfaction, body dysmorphia, and suicidal ideation in young men.
00:23:57.420 So when you look at all of those behaviors together, the meth, the testosterone at 14, the hammer, I think it's pretty clear that we're talking about self-harm behavior.
00:24:09.540 Yeah, those are harmful behaviors, right?
00:24:12.020 That one is doing himself by definition, self-harm.
00:24:16.340 Exactly.
00:24:17.240 And I just, again, I just really think that we would be responding differently to Peters if he were a woman.
00:24:22.700 Going back to those early 2010s, Tumblr, pro-anorexia communities, those communities were mostly teenage girls and young women.
00:24:32.520 They were thinspo photos, diet tips, tips for evading parents and doctors, mantras like skip dinner, end up thinner.
00:24:40.020 Again, if you listen to our Skinny Talk episode, you know that it's still very much a thing.
00:24:43.620 It's very similar to, I think, what Peters is pushing. A tight-knit online community with its own vocabulary, hierarchies, and in-group culture. Check. An ideology that frames dangerous self-harm behaviors as an aspirational lifestyle choice. Check. Pseudoscience justifications for those behaviors. Check. Practical tips on how to harm yourself more effectively. Check. Tips on evading medical scrutiny and parental scrutiny. Check.
00:25:11.900 Monetization through memberships and affiliate products.
00:25:14.840 Check.
00:25:15.840 Algorithmic amplification pushing vulnerable young people deeper and deeper in.
00:25:20.680 Check.
00:25:21.680 In February 2012, after pressure from the National Eating Disorder Association,
00:25:26.260 Tumblr announced that it would ban blogs that actively promote or glorify self-harm, including eating disorders.
00:25:32.300 And those communities were not celebrated as, like, a fascinating cultural provocateur, right?
00:25:38.380 For the most part, they were treated as a public health crisis. Like platforms were pressured into getting rid of the content. Research was published into it. Journalists covered it as a kind of harm, not an interesting cultural spectacle like what I think that we're seeing with Peters.
00:25:54.340 Those comparisons are so strong when you lay them out like that, that, you know, after running through that long list, it's like, how could anyone not take a gender lens to see the different way that Peters and looks maxing is being treated than it would if he were a woman?
00:26:17.020 or not even hypothetically, how the pro-anorexia movement was treated several years ago.
00:26:26.640 And I know you and I talked about this a little bit before the show.
00:26:30.180 I just think it's so interesting to think about why that different treatment exists
00:26:35.320 for looks-maxing, which seems geared at young men,
00:26:39.020 versus the pro-anorexia movement, which was primarily aimed at young women.
00:26:45.960 And we came up with a couple of hypotheses, but no, like, really clear answer.
00:26:53.780 You know, I would be interested to hear from listeners if they have any thoughts about why this difference exists.
00:27:01.100 I don't know if you want to opine a little bit on it right now.
00:27:04.080 Yeah, I mean, this is just my opinion.
00:27:05.920 This is for people who are much smarter than me to figure out.
00:27:08.960 I don't have any kind of inside knowledge into this.
00:27:11.060 I just want to own this is just my opinion.
00:27:12.680 I think that because it is associated with men and masculinity, it automatically is given a different lens or a different framing.
00:27:22.600 I think that when men do something, it is seen as like a serious thing that has serious societal consequences or impact or that we need to be looking at it and treating it in a much more serious lens.
00:27:34.580 I think it's easier to see young women and girls doing a similar, not entirely identical, but a similar thing and saying, oh, those that's unwell behavior, that self-harm behavior.
00:27:47.700 I think that when I'm when it's coming from young men and boys, when it's coming from and targeted at young men and boys, I think it's easier for some people to apply a different lens to it.
00:27:56.900 I guess I don't really know why. And I think you can really see it in how Peters was dealt with
00:28:03.720 or not dealt with, depending on how you look at it, after he filmed himself injecting peptides
00:28:08.460 into his body, into his then underage girlfriend's face. He was temporarily banned from kick and then
00:28:15.480 came back. He got that New York Times profile and then he walked in fashion week. And so I just
00:28:21.680 think that if there had been a woman who had done something analogous I don't think that she would
00:28:27.180 get all of the all of this like positive stuff out of it and I also wonder if part of it is that we
00:28:33.600 just are aware of the pressure around this kind of thing when it comes to girls but we're less aware
00:28:41.480 of it when it comes to young men and boys that we have a framework in our mind for what it looks
00:28:46.860 like when a young woman or a girl is coming into contact with this kind of content and this kind of
00:28:53.100 behavior that I almost wonder if we don't if we if we have not really identified a similar kind
00:28:57.200 of language around what it looks like and how it should be treated when it's happening to a young
00:29:01.040 man or a boy I agree I think that's a big piece of this that we just have like a background cultural
00:29:09.020 familiarity with the fact that these things are threats to young women the ideas of body dysmorphia
00:29:15.320 body image issues, disordered eating. A lot of people are very familiar with those problems in
00:29:20.720 the context of young women. And it does feel more new to be applying those same concerns to
00:29:28.120 young men. And there's surely a whole bunch of cultural reasons for that. But it does seem like
00:29:37.520 perhaps we all need to update our mental models and realize that young men are being
00:29:44.540 really affected and targeted by these harmful things.
00:29:49.220 Yeah, a UC San Francisco study by Dr. Jason Nagata found a 400 percent increase in eating
00:29:55.160 disorder hospitalizations among boys since 2002.
00:29:58.920 So boys are not immune to body image pathology and issues, but I think perhaps they are less
00:30:05.480 seen in the frameworks that we have built around addressing it.
00:30:10.100 I don't think that we are like, we have not updated our information about what and who gets impacted by eating disorders and body dysmorphia and self-harm around it.
00:30:20.140 And just another thing that I wanted to say while we're making these comparisons to the pro-Anna, pro-eating disorder, mostly content for and by women and girls, largely those communities were girls harming themselves.
00:30:34.780 Again, we do have figures like Liv Schmidt, who ran an online group where you could pay to get access to her tips and tricks for disordered eating. So it's not entirely, but mostly it is like self-harm. But Peters has demonstrably harmed other people. You know, that girlfriend that he injected with the peptides, the women that he provoked a fight with to post online to get engagement, the person he hit with that cyber truck.
00:31:00.920 He doxxed a reporter who was trying to interview him.
00:31:04.500 He openly advocates for teenage boys to inject themselves with unregulated hormones.
00:31:09.700 And he earns $100K a month in doing it.
00:31:12.780 So that financial incentive to continue this behavior and for other people to continue behavior like this is obviously enormous.
00:31:19.720 And that takes me back to my question about the role in media amplifying him.
00:31:25.840 Right. The incentives for him, but also the incentives for media who might want to cover him.
00:31:32.840 Yes. So that's a piece of this I want to really dig into, because I do think it is incentivized to write about him.
00:31:40.920 You know, in the six weeks following him reportedly hitting a guy with a cyber truck while live streaming, Peters went from this well-known subcultural figure to essentially a mainstream Internet celebrity.
00:31:55.180 And here's a rundown of all the places in the aftermath of that that wrote pieces on him.
00:31:59.500 There was a piece in Wired in September 2025.
00:32:01.980 It was his first major outlet profile that called him one of looks-maxing's most popular influencers.
00:32:07.540 That Atlantic piece, which called him the newest star of the movement.
00:32:09.900 That January 2026 Rolling Stone piece that called him a premier figure in looks-maxing.
00:32:14.920 That piece did also note that Peters' fixation on optimization is inseparable from aggressive sexism.
00:32:20.580 There was a piece in The Guardian in January calling him one of the most prominent influencers in the looks-maxing community, a full profile at GQ in February, that New York Times piece in February, which was a major, major profile, and then later devoted an entire episode of The Daily to him in March, and then walking in a looks-maxing-themed runway for designer Elena Velez just days after he was arrested.
00:32:44.760 And so I think the outlets and the institutions clearly get some sort of benefit from the association with him, not necessarily like critical association, but association that traffics in the sort of cultural cachet or perceived cultural relevance of what he is doing.
00:33:03.360 And I think each one of those is a signal that made the next one that followed more and more justified, right? Each one raised his income, raised his platform, built out this cultural cachet and legitimacy, which we know is exactly what these guys are after.
00:33:19.660 And so I do think it's like they're kind of working in tandem here where, you know, the outlet that writes about him in this particular kind of way gets a raised profile.
00:33:30.900 And so does he. So it's like, you know, one hand washes the other kind of thing, I think.
00:33:35.420 Again, I know this is a tough line to walk, but that's just that's just my take on what's happening here.
00:33:40.880 It seems fair. It seems warranted. I mean, you go through that timeline and that's so many major profiles from major publications within like a month of each other. You know, national politicians would be thrilled to have that kind of attention.
00:33:56.420 Yes.
00:33:57.040 There are tons of A-list celebrities who did not receive that much attention in January and February of this year.
00:34:04.320 Exactly. And this is somebody who does not even really have that big of a footprint. He certainly didn't have that big of a footprint to warrant this much ink at the time.
00:34:19.400 More after a quick break.
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00:37:32.980 Let's get right back into it.
00:37:36.720 Media scholar Whitney Phillips has coined this phrase, the oxygen of amplification,
00:37:41.560 and that's the idea that the coverage of extremist figures, even sometimes critical coverage,
00:37:46.160 provides them the attention that sustains them. A 2025 peer-reviewed paper found that, quote,
00:37:51.260 Despite the best intentions of journalists, news media has unwittingly played into the hands of the contemporary far right.
00:37:59.040 And so that's kind of what I think is going on here, that in some instances, perhaps they're sort of being played.
00:38:05.960 But with The New York Times, I don't know. I don't I'm not comfortable saying that The New York Times is being played at a certain point.
00:38:11.660 Like, if you want to be played, are you still played? You know?
00:38:15.840 Yeah, it's a great question.
00:38:18.340 If you're just like happy to go along with being played, is it being played?
00:38:23.020 Great question.
00:38:24.020 Tess Faye, in that Salon piece that I mentioned earlier, really put it well.
00:38:28.020 She writes, journalists covering figures like Clavicular are being pulled into a system
00:38:32.320 where their own professional criteria, novelty, conflict, and visibility are being gamed by
00:38:37.760 subjects who understand the attention economy better than most of the reporters covering
00:38:41.700 them.
00:38:42.020 She also noted that that New York Times profile, which I completely agree with, never quite grapples with the women that Peters has harmed, the teenage boys injecting steroids into themselves at his instruction, or the reporter on whom he sicked an anti-Semitic mob, and that ultimately the form of coverage these figures get really does matter.
00:39:03.320 Ezra Marcus, writing at The Intelligentsia, described Peters as, quote, something of an edgelord folk hero whose profit strategy fuses shock jock tactics with straightforward marketing.
00:39:14.420 That like shock jock folk hero profit strategy framing, I think, is exactly the heart of the problem here because it treats what I think is objectively self-destructive behavior as a kind of brand strategy, not as symptoms of a mental illness or some larger issue.
00:39:35.260 And I think it's worth kind of like saying plainly that this is not just a body image stories. Peters has also been described by the forward as a right wing extremist to watch in 2026.
00:39:47.820 Charlie Wurzel of The Atlantic writes about how Peters revels in anti-Semitism.
00:39:53.220 He's well known for using racist slurs in his live stream.
00:39:57.220 And as we already discussed, we know that looks-maxing ideology and the broader white nationalist movement it represents are not adjacent.
00:40:05.720 They are like the same. That Venn diagram is like essentially a circle.
00:40:08.740 And so the choice to cover him as a just a cultural phenomenon, I think it is a choice that has wildly dangerous, harmful impacts, not just for Peters, for all of us.
00:40:26.440 But as we talked about, it is hard to know, like, what is the line? What is the right way to cover these kinds of figures? What do you think? You know, for journalists who might be listening and asking, like, well, what is the right way to cover somebody like Peters? What do you wish would have been different in some of this coverage he's gotten over the past month?
00:40:50.700 Yeah, something that I think needs to happen is you have to give a full accounting of what it is this person has done. And I'm not even talking about, you know, I'm talking about like his own words, things that he has said.
00:41:05.360 I think that they're really making some editorial choices about what is and is not part of his story or an important part of his story.
00:41:14.120 I think a lot of the stuff that he does with like slurs and his anti-Semitism, I think somewhere along the line, they've made an editorial choice that that stuff is like just kidding or just joking and is not really important to the story of who he is.
00:41:28.980 And I'd like to know why, you know, and if you're trying to be of service to your audience or your readers, why have you made, how have you come to the conclusion that some of this stuff is not important to include for folks to understand who this person is?
00:41:43.280 And if it's not important, then why are you telling me about him?
00:41:45.940 Like, that's another question I would ask.
00:41:47.800 When he didn't have that many followers and was still a pretty niche person in this niche subculture, why was it important that I know about him?
00:41:55.460 I'm not saying that it's not important, but I think that, like, you've got to make a case for why it is that you're telling me about him. Why are the New York Times dedicating an entire episode of The Daily to him? And I think it's important to sort of end with where Peters is now, where we are in all of this.
00:42:10.860 So as I said, last week, April 14th, Peters was streaming from a bar in Miami and his friends noticed that something was wrong.
00:42:19.060 He became unresponsive. The stream cut out.
00:42:21.240 The Miami Fire Department responded to the report of a 20-year-old having a possible OD.
00:42:26.980 That was Peters. He was hospitalized in stable condition.
00:42:30.400 And then the next morning, he posted that photo of himself with blood on his face and he wrote,
00:42:35.580 Just got home. That was brutal.
00:42:37.460 All of the substances are just a cope trying to feel neurotypical while being in public.
00:42:42.340 But that obviously isn't a real solution.
00:42:44.940 And again, he goes on to talk about how the worst part of the night was his face descending from the life support mask.
00:42:51.240 And that's the thing that he, you know, chose to tell his followers about that was like weighing on him after a hospitalization for an OD that happened on a live stream.
00:43:03.140 He's worried about what it did to his face, what his face looks like.
00:43:07.320 And it reads to me like a 20-year-old who has been told by both like the community online that he came of age in, by other influencers, by mainstream outlets like the New York Times who are calling him somebody who promotes handsomeness, that his worth is his appearance.
00:43:25.420 And I just don't think that we would do that with someone who was struggling with a more, quote, feminized version of body dysmorphia and self-harm.
00:43:34.140 And so since his OD, he has indicated publicly that he might not be streaming that much anymore, not because he's taking a mental health break, but because, according to him, he can't stream sober.
00:43:48.060 He said in a video, I ain't going to be doing any more substances for a little while, hopefully for forever.
00:43:53.460 But that means I can't really IRL stream anymore.
00:43:56.620 So that's the thing.
00:43:57.500 I can't really IRL stream because, as you guys know, I'm quite brutal without that.
00:44:01.920 So I think I have to figure something else out.
00:44:04.940 And I think that's really what it comes down to, that this is obviously somebody who is not well,
00:44:11.580 who is using substances and self-harm by his own words to cope.
00:44:17.560 And I think that not just for him, I think that for all of us,
00:44:21.960 it would behoove us if media and journalists could figure out a way to cover this person
00:44:28.520 in a way that is a little more responsible and a little more ethical
00:44:31.440 and that really makes clear what it is that we're actually talking about.
00:44:36.000 Because I tell you, it ain't just like some interesting cultural online phenomenon.
00:44:40.840 at the heart of it is clearly an unwell person, and I don't think that media should be obscuring
00:44:46.980 that just to get engagement. So I know that this episode has been quite a lot about Peters,
00:44:53.140 but it's not even really about this one guy. It's really about what happens next, because
00:44:58.280 Peters is not going to be the last person to push harmful ideology or to try to package
00:45:03.620 self-destructive ideas as just self-improvement. We already know that this pattern is so much
00:45:09.640 bigger than any one individual. So the real question that I would ask is, what role do major
00:45:15.320 outlets want to play in that cycle? When institutions like the New York Times or others
00:45:20.820 choose to frame these extremist figures, do they interrupt that pipeline or do they just smooth it
00:45:26.900 out? Do they help contextualize harm and help their audience really understand what's at stake
00:45:32.480 and who these people are? Or do they repackage it into something that feels safe or even
00:45:38.280 aspirational or cool until it doesn't. To me, it's about whether or not this attention is
00:45:44.220 becoming a form of platform building. And then you have these same systems later going on to
00:45:49.500 critique these figures when it's like, wait a minute, you helped them become this big influential
00:45:54.460 figure in the first place. And I want to be clear, Peters is responsible for his own actions and his
00:46:00.180 own bad behavior. But shouldn't the institutions that decide what becomes visible, what gets
00:46:05.920 amplified and what gets turned into a story rather than a warning sign, like they also share some of
00:46:11.480 the responsibility here. So it really isn't about this one guy. It is whether or not we've built
00:46:17.180 media and digital systems that can recognize the difference between reporting on harm and just
00:46:22.540 helping to repackage it and make it palatable for more and more people at scale. So I know that was
00:46:27.560 a lot. I've clearly been holding in a lot of thoughts about this person and the phenomena
00:46:32.600 around them. Again, this is one of those episodes where this is just my opinion. I really want to
00:46:38.100 hear what folks think. Like, has this person come across your feed? What has your engagement with
00:46:43.780 them looked like? And if you have any thoughts on how folks can do a better job, myself very much
00:46:48.080 included, talking about people like this and extremist figures like this, we would love to
00:46:53.300 hear it. If you're on Spotify, you can leave us a comment in our Spotify comments or shoot us an
00:46:57.620 email. Maybe we'll do a follow-up episode about how people feel. But yeah, that's all I got.
00:47:02.600 Well, thank you, Bridget, for the rundown, and listeners can leave us Spotify comments, shoot us an email, hello at Tangody, follow Bridget or the show on social, Bridget Marie in D.C., and just the name of the show, There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:47:17.880 Thanks, Bridget, and I'll talk to you soon.
00:47:21.760 Thanks, Mike.
00:47:26.920 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
00:47:30.480 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
00:47:32.600 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
00:47:36.200 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
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