There Are No Girls on the Internet - Digital rapper FN Meka and the new era of digital Blackface

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.520 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.100 The new Red Bull Dragonberry and Tropicberry Energizers,

00:00:08.680 now at McDonald's.

00:00:10.400 Made with freeze-dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor.

00:00:14.920 The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's.

00:00:19.360 This product may not be right for you.

00:00:20.700 High in caffeine.

00:00:21.320 Details at mcdonalds.ca

00:00:22.320 and participating Canadian restaurants excluding Quebec.

00:00:24.620 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:00:26.940 Think again.

00:00:27.560 More Americans listen to podcasts,

00:00:29.020 then add supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster

00:00:33.160 iheart's twice as large as the next two combined learn how podcasting can help your business call

00:00:37.800 844-844-iheart i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people

00:00:46.160 survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files

00:00:52.040 every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable abducted stalked controlled and

00:00:58.480 nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The

00:01:04.500 Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

00:01:10.380 get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:01:15.860 welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone

00:01:21.660 who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week,

00:01:26.180 we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:01:29.220 with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:01:34.000 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:01:35.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:45.540 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:01:49.320 i'm bridget todd and this is there are no girls on the internet

00:01:56.440 do you need to be a human to be an influencer or how about a rapper what about a model

00:02:03.680 it turns out maybe not entirely digital creations are landing brand deals and record deals

00:02:10.440 and modeling contracts and it might sound super cool and futuristic but it's also raising some

00:02:16.320 very real questions. So let's get into what's going on and talk about some of the history behind

00:02:21.600 virtual talent. So last week, Capitol Records announced that they signed a record deal with

00:02:26.800 a digital rapper called FN Mecca, who became the first ever digital artist to sign with a major

00:02:31.860 recording label. But the deal also came with accusations of digital blackface, cultural

00:02:36.740 appropriation, and the digital exploitation of blackness. So just 11 short days later,

00:02:42.760 the deal was terminated and the label said it was cutting ties with the rapper because

00:02:47.200 pretty much everybody's reaction was like, wait, no, this is bad. So FN Mecca was designed to look

00:02:56.080 like a very specific type of rapper. He rocks bright green braids, half of a shaved head,

00:03:03.200 face tattoos, and a gold grill over his teeth. Kind of like the rapper 6ix9ine. He raps about

00:03:09.460 cars and cash and diamonds and expensive watches and other pretty stereotypical trappings of rap

00:03:15.380 music. He also uses the N-word in his raps and has posted content on his social media platforms

00:03:21.260 that just did not sit right with people because he's not Black. I mean, he's not anything. He's 1.00

00:03:27.680 not a human at all. So just in case it's not clear, FN Mecca is not real. He's an avatar,

00:03:34.600 A digital creation of a media company called Factory New, started by Anthony Martini and Brandon Lee, neither of whom are Black.

00:03:43.200 They describe Factory New as a first-of-its-kind next-generation music company specializing in virtual beings.

00:03:50.280 So kind of like a talent agency for digital creations and avatars.

00:03:54.740 They've also created a crypto wrapper called Lil' Bitcoin, which, side note, kind of sounds like a project designed in a lab specifically for me to hate it.

00:04:04.600 But back to FN Mecca, while he may not be real, he does still have a very real big digital

00:04:11.040 footprint with 10.3 million followers on TikTok and 222,000 followers on his verified Instagram

00:04:17.680 account.

00:04:18.620 So how did FN come to be?

00:04:21.000 Well, in a 2021 interview with Music Business Weekly, Anthony Martini, the executive at

00:04:26.100 New Factory, explained, saying, not to get all philosophical, but what is an artist today?

00:04:31.940 Think about the biggest stars in the world.

00:04:33.620 How many of them are just vessels for commercial endeavors?

00:04:37.060 So what he's basically arguing is that if we mostly engage with artists via screens,

00:04:42.380 then they don't really need to exist outside of those screens to be relevant.

00:04:47.080 He also talked about how scouting for fresh new human talent involves a lot of work,

00:04:52.540 scouring the internet for fresh talent, flying out to concerts and meetings.

00:04:56.280 And if you just create a digital avatar, you cut out all of that work.

00:05:01.080 Anthony Martini goes on to explain how their avatar talents are made using thousands of data points compiled from video games and social media.

00:05:08.080 And that Factory New has developed a proprietary AI technology that analyzes certain popular songs and generates recommendations for various elements of song construction, like lyrical content, chords, melodies, tempos, sounds, etc.

00:05:22.380 You get the idea.

00:05:24.060 FN Mecca's debut single called Florida Water

00:05:27.040 features the actual human rapper Gunna

00:05:30.200 and human gaming streamer Clix.

00:05:33.980 But the reaction to FN Mecca

00:05:35.680 has been not good, to say the very least.

00:05:39.440 In addition to his use of the N-word in his songs,

00:05:42.160 because the whole idea is to make it seem like FN Mecca 0.87

00:05:44.760 has a real life despite not being a real human,

00:05:47.840 they've really fleshed out his universe

00:05:49.560 with images and videos,

00:05:51.340 including one pretty cringy image of himself

00:05:53.940 being assaulted by a police officer while in prison,

00:05:57.240 posted on his Instagram account with the caption,

00:05:59.920 police brutality, what should I do?

00:06:02.300 Prison guards keep beating me with the baton

00:06:04.080 because I won't snitch.

00:06:05.380 I ain't no rat.

00:06:06.780 So I have to say, I just do not like this at all.

00:06:10.420 It feels like a media venture 1.00

00:06:11.840 that is not run by Black people, 1.00

00:06:14.020 capitalizing off of Black trauma, Black pain, 0.99

00:06:16.380 and harmful stereotypes about Blackness.

00:06:19.320 in this really shallow and stereotypical way.

00:06:23.040 And it also raises questions about digital blackface.

00:06:26.060 Digital blackface is a term popularized

00:06:28.080 by Lauren Michelle Jackson, 1.00

00:06:29.780 a feminist scholar and writer

00:06:31.140 in the departments of English and African-American studies

00:06:33.500 at Northwestern University

00:06:34.740 and the author of the book on cultural appropriation

00:06:37.560 called White Negroes.

00:06:39.480 She describes digital blackface

00:06:41.380 as using the relative anonymity of online identity

00:06:44.600 to embody blackness.

00:06:46.400 It can be things like using reaction gifs 0.53

00:06:48.320 of Black people on social media if you yourself are not Black, or in some cases, adopting an entire

00:06:54.540 Black online persona, like the owners of the popular vegan cooking website, formerly called 0.90

00:07:00.300 Thug Kitchen, who built an entire successful online brand off of adopting a really stereotypical 0.51

00:07:06.780 Black scent in their recipes before eventually changing the name. And I guess that's kind of

00:07:11.260 what doesn't sit right with me about this AI rapper. If FN isn't a human, why go out of your

00:07:17.680 way to depict him in such highly racialized ways if you're not trying to capitalize on a perceived

00:07:23.700 proximity to Blackness. It just feels really exploitative. Industry Blackout, a collective

00:07:29.220 of Black people in the entertainment industry committed to changing the community, also didn't

00:07:33.600 love it. You might recall that we've actually talked about Industry Blackout once before

00:07:37.840 during our episode about Blackout Day back in 2020. Industry Blackout responded to the news of

00:07:43.080 FN being signed to Capitol in an open letter, writing,

00:07:46.820 While we applaud the innovation in tech that connects listeners to music and enhances the

00:07:50.920 experience, we find fault with the lack of awareness in how offensive this caricature is.

00:07:55.680 It is a direct insult to the Black community and our culture, an amalgamation of gross stereotypes,

00:08:01.260 appropriative mannerisms that derive from Black artists, complete with slurs infused in lyrics. 0.99

00:08:07.020 This digital effigy is a careless abomination and disrespectful to real people who face real 0.98

00:08:12.640 consequences in real life. For example, Gunna, a Black artist who was featured on a song with

00:08:18.280 FN Mecca, is currently incarcerated for rapping the same type of lyrics this robot mimics.

00:08:24.420 The difference is, your artificial rapper will not be subject to federal charges for such.

00:08:30.160 For your company to approve this shows a serious lack of diversity and a resounding amount of

00:08:35.100 tone-deaf leadership. This is simply unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Which prompted Capital

00:08:40.440 to respond by cutting ties with FN

00:08:42.580 and releasing a statement saying,

00:08:44.740 we offer our deepest apologies 0.99

00:08:46.200 to the Black community

00:08:47.140 for our insensitivity

00:08:48.440 in signing this project

00:08:49.980 without asking enough questions

00:08:51.400 about equity

00:08:52.000 and the creative process behind it.

00:08:54.180 We thank those of you

00:08:55.420 who reached out to us

00:08:56.420 with constructive feedback

00:08:57.720 in the past couple of days.

00:08:59.300 Your input was invaluable

00:09:00.560 as we came to the decision

00:09:01.760 to end our association

00:09:02.980 with this project.

00:09:04.520 In response to all this,

00:09:06.160 Anthony Martini,

00:09:07.520 the new factory executive

00:09:08.840 behind FN Mecca,

00:09:10.440 did an interview with the New York Times, and it really just made me feel like he did not

00:09:14.780 get it. Initially, he told the Times that blogs latched on to a clickbait headline and created

00:09:21.080 this narrative. And in response to that cringy photo of FN Mecca being roughed up by police,

00:09:27.500 he said, quote, some of the early content. Now, if you take it out of context, it obviously looks

00:09:32.800 worse or different than it was intended. And even though in that earlier interview that he did with

00:09:38.040 Music Business Weekly, where he was really hyping up that Mecca's lyrics were generated using the

00:09:44.120 company's proprietary AI software. In the interview he did with the New York Times after the controversy,

00:09:50.080 Anthony Martini really walked that back, saying that FN Mecca was, in fact, primarily an anonymous

00:09:56.720 human rapper who was Black. It's not this malicious plan of white executives. It's literally no

00:10:02.700 different from managing a human artist, except it's digital, he added. He also said that the

00:10:08.220 team behind FN Mecca was, quote, actually one of the most diverse teams you can get. I'm the only

00:10:13.800 white person involved. So this explanation was further complicated by the fact that the

00:10:19.340 anonymous black rapper that he was talking about FN Mecca being based on has actually spoken up

00:10:27.600 and said that Martini's company basically just stole his likeness and his voice without

00:10:32.380 credit or compensation. Rapper Kyle the Hooligan said that New Factory approached him to be the

00:10:38.540 voice of FN Mecca in exchange for equity in the company and then basically ghosted him. Like,

00:10:44.600 use my voice, use my sound, use the culture, and literally this left me high and dry. I didn't get

00:10:49.780 a dime off of nothing, and they got record deals, all this stuff. I wasn't involved in no meetings

00:10:54.860 or none of that, he said. So after really defending this project to the New York Times, Martini must

00:11:00.460 have had a change of heart. Because just a few days later, he announced that he was also cutting

00:11:05.200 ties with the project, writing, it's become apparent that I should have done more diligence

00:11:09.660 before joining. In the past few days, I've learned of Kyle the Hooligan's experience with Mecca,

00:11:14.940 which is deeply at odds with my core values. I believe that artists must always be at the 0.95

00:11:19.260 center of the creative process and must be fairly compensated. Mecca is not the only

00:11:24.000 digital creation making deals despite not even being human let's take a quick break

00:11:31.320 the new red bull dragon berry and tropic berry energizers now at mcdonald's made with freeze

00:11:44.020 dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor the all-new red bull energizers now at mcdonald's

00:11:51.780 This product may not be right for you.

00:11:53.380 High in caffeine.

00:11:54.020 Details at mcdonalds.ca and participating Canadian restaurants,

00:11:56.280 excluding Quebec.

00:11:57.320 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:12:00.120 Think again.

00:12:01.140 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music

00:12:04.240 from Spotify and Pandora.

00:12:05.820 And as the number one podcaster,

00:12:07.660 iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

00:12:10.140 So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

00:12:13.220 Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

00:12:17.520 Think podcasting can help your business?

00:12:19.060 Think iHeart.

00:12:20.180 streaming radio and podcasting let us show you at iheartadvertising.com that's iheartadvertising.com

00:12:27.300 when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent

00:12:35.120 my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart

00:12:41.200 and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying

00:12:48.820 shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable

00:12:55.460 i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was 0.90

00:13:03.300 someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled

00:13:10.780 and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories

00:13:16.380 about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart

00:13:22.140 on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your

00:13:29.120 for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home this is prose society

00:13:35.540 the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture

00:13:40.640 obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same

00:13:44.700 level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:13:49.920 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this

00:13:54.460 story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to

00:13:59.860 the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real

00:14:05.580 messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for

00:14:11.560 literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a

00:14:17.120 little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:14:22.900 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

00:14:33.480 And we're back. Brazilian model and singer Little Makila was hired as the arts editor

00:14:39.820 at the ultra-hip Dazed Magazine.

00:14:42.960 She gets sponsored content deals

00:14:44.660 with some of the biggest brands in fashion, like Prada,

00:14:47.580 and has been photographed hanging out

00:14:49.100 with some of the biggest celebrities,

00:14:50.560 like Tracee Ellis Ross, Diplo, and Millie Bobby Brown.

00:14:53.740 She's been interviewed by Vogue and The Guardian

00:14:55.520 and was in a Calvin Klein spread

00:14:57.760 alongside model Bella Hadid.

00:15:00.180 In 2018, Lil Mikaela was named

00:15:02.500 one of Time Magazine's 25 Most Influential People

00:15:05.340 on the Internet.

00:15:06.560 Only, she's not real.

00:15:08.780 Little Mikayla is a fictional AI rendering of the perfect Instagram it girl.

00:15:14.180 Brud, the company behind Mikayla, is valued at $125 million.

00:15:19.040 Little Mikayla is considered the world's first virtual influencer.

00:15:23.380 She joined Instagram back in 2016.

00:15:26.140 In 2020, she became the first digital avatar to ever sign with a talent agency

00:15:30.700 when she inked a contract with CAA, becoming the company's first ever virtual client.

00:15:37.160 So Mikayla is really interesting.

00:15:38.780 Her features are designed to be non-white, 0.99

00:15:41.000 but they still exist along a pretty conventional Eurocentric beauty standard. 0.99

00:15:45.040 Like it almost seems like her creators were trying to pluck aspects

00:15:47.620 from Black, White, and Latino women that are considered traditionally desirable

00:15:51.660 and, through the power of digital rendering,

00:15:54.560 put them all together on one perfect-looking person. 1.00

00:15:57.920 She has edgy street style, a tan complexion, a curvaceous butt, 0.99

00:16:01.820 an upturned nose, and freckles. 1.00

00:16:04.200 And it really reestablishes a well-worn beauty standard

00:16:07.320 that would be difficult for any human woman to embody. 0.99

00:16:11.280 But it's easy for her because she isn't real. 0.99

00:16:15.080 Lil Mikayla's whole thing as an influencer

00:16:16.980 is being authentic and relatable. 0.91

00:16:19.140 She has dramas and breakups just like humans do.

00:16:22.380 She's also really aligned with social justice and activism.

00:16:25.640 She's advocated for LGBTQ causes and Black Lives Matter. 0.75

00:16:29.100 But in 2019, the humans who control her 1.00

00:16:32.260 took it way too far.

00:16:34.820 Mikayla released a video where she described

00:16:36.700 being assaulted by a man in a rideshare.

00:16:39.420 She said, sure enough,

00:16:40.740 I feel this guy's cold, meaty hand touch my leg

00:16:43.780 as if confirming that I'm real.

00:16:45.640 His hand literally lingers there, rubbing my skin.

00:16:49.020 And people really did not like it.

00:16:51.800 It just felt like a profitable media company

00:16:53.840 was both trivializing and capitalizing off of assault,

00:16:57.580 a situation that far too many of us

00:16:59.580 have actually experienced in real life. 1.00

00:17:02.260 Lil Mikaela isn't real, so her creators dreaming up a sexual assault for her to go through 0.58

00:17:08.040 just feels kind of gross. 0.62

00:17:11.020 Or take the Black fashion model Shudu Graham. 0.97

00:17:14.720 She has a deep, dark complexion, and her Instagram posts are always hashtagged with things like 0.85

00:17:19.180 hashtag melanin, hashtag black girl magic.

00:17:22.160 Her image was even reposted by Rihanna's Fenty Cosmetics,

00:17:25.640 a makeup line known for its inclusive shades for darker complexions.

00:17:29.980 Shudu's deep, dark skin is so flawless, it seems unreal. 0.98

00:17:35.360 And that's probably because she's not real.

00:17:38.380 Shudu is considered the first digital supermodel,

00:17:41.220 and she was made using a digital 3D modeling program

00:17:43.860 by a white male fashion photographer in London named Cameron James Wilson.

00:17:48.680 In an interview with Bazaar, Wilson said that basically, Shudu is my creation.

00:17:53.560 She's my art that I'm working on at the moment.

00:17:55.560 She's not a real model, unfortunately, but she represents a lot of real models today.

00:18:00.700 There's a big kind of movement with dark-skinned models, so she represents them and is inspired by them.

00:18:06.060 Wilson maintains that he did not have any ill intentions in creating Shudu, saying,

00:18:10.980 It's meant to be beautiful art which empowers people.

00:18:13.700 It's not trying to take away an opportunity from anyone or replace anyone.

00:18:17.580 She's trying to compliment those people.

00:18:19.900 And he may very well have great intentions.

00:18:23.440 But speaking as a real darkly-skinned Black woman who is a human,

00:18:27.940 it honestly doesn't feel great to have someone who wouldn't know anything about what that experience is like for us to be capitalizing on it.

00:18:36.160 Wilson points out that the digital creations of Black women that he makes are based on real human Black women

00:18:41.380 who might have some level of involvement in this project.

00:18:45.540 He's described them as his muses.

00:18:48.440 But being a muse does not necessarily mean having a lot of agency.

00:18:52.840 or say in how this project shows up in the world.

00:18:56.580 Like neither Shudu or Wilson as her creator

00:18:59.580 would have any idea what it's actually like

00:19:02.580 to not be able to find makeup dark enough for your skin tone.

00:19:05.440 And that's because Wilson is a white man

00:19:07.600 and Shudu doesn't actually have any skin

00:19:09.820 because she's not a real person. 0.69

00:19:11.720 We humans did not just decide to try on our blackness,

00:19:15.680 but the people who make these digital avatars

00:19:18.040 did get to decide to create them in this way

00:19:20.620 without necessarily having to understand with or grapple with

00:19:24.380 or even really engage with all of the culture

00:19:27.020 or baggage or history that comes along with it.

00:19:29.940 And I can absolutely see a world

00:19:32.620 where brands and talent agencies

00:19:34.460 would much rather work with a digital avatar 0.99

00:19:37.160 meant to mimic Blackness 0.89

00:19:39.020 rather than an actual Black human being. 0.99

00:19:41.900 Because think about it, 0.88

00:19:43.040 that avatar is never going to call them out

00:19:45.200 for saying or doing something insensitive

00:19:47.200 and will never express any agency at all

00:19:50.220 because they're not actually real.

00:19:52.420 It seems really easy to create an ecosystem 0.98

00:19:54.900 where digital imitations of Blackness 1.00

00:19:57.040 become more desirable, 0.55

00:19:59.020 not to mention more profitable

00:20:00.580 than the real human thing.

00:20:03.080 Dr. Francesca Sobande,

00:20:04.840 who researches digital media,

00:20:06.820 really summed it up nicely

00:20:08.000 in a piece for the conversation.

00:20:09.880 She writes,

00:20:10.780 many Black CGI influencers

00:20:12.500 and their origin stories

00:20:14.180 represent pervasive marketplace demand

00:20:16.680 for impersonations of Black people

00:20:18.400 that center to what may be warped ideas

00:20:21.200 about Black life, culture, and embodiment.

00:20:24.120 I appreciate the work of Black people

00:20:25.900 seeking to change the industry,

00:20:27.420 and I am interested in how the future 1.00

00:20:29.240 of Black CGI influencers may be shaped by Black people

00:20:32.640 who are both creators and muses. 1.00

00:20:36.540 And I think that there is just really something weird

00:20:39.360 about the fact that Little Mikayla, Shudu, and FN Mecca

00:20:42.600 get actual deals that involve actual human dollars.

00:20:47.460 Companies and brands get to feel like

00:20:49.060 they're collaborating with Black and brown creators

00:20:51.120 when they work with these kinds of digital talents. 1.00

00:20:53.720 But really, they're not.

00:20:55.500 They're just giving money to the companies who create them.

00:20:58.240 And it kind of just seems like another opportunity

00:21:00.220 to marginalize people

00:21:01.440 who are already marginalized in these spaces.

00:21:04.200 Like if brands wanted to work 1.00

00:21:05.640 with a queer Brazilian teenager like Lil Mikayla 1.00

00:21:08.160 or a darker skinned model like Shudu 0.81

00:21:10.460 or a rapper who's been to prison like FN Mecca,

00:21:13.140 they could actually book humans

00:21:14.880 with those actual identities

00:21:16.400 or lived experiences, not a digital rendering of one. So listen, I am fully aware that I probably

00:21:23.600 sound like a bit of a curmudgeon here, but that's not it at all. Actually, I am very excited about

00:21:30.020 this kind of technology and how it might be used in things like media and music and art.

00:21:35.060 There's an entire future of possibility where things like AI and avatars blow up boundaries

00:21:40.440 around how we think about race, gender, sexuality, ability, and more in really interesting and

00:21:46.200 innovative ways. But when you look at a project like SN Mecca, it's so clear that that same

00:21:52.380 technology could just be used to reinforce and double back down on the same harmful, tired

00:21:58.900 stereotypes and tropes that we already experience in the real world, which is just so sad. With

00:22:05.260 technology, the possibilities are so vast. So it's sad to see it be used to reinforce the same

00:22:11.760 tired, hurtful schticks. 0.89

00:22:13.520 We'll see you next time.

00:22:43.520 you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from

00:22:47.780 iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - August 31, 2022

Digital rapper FN Meka and the new era of digital Blackface

Episode Stats

Transcript