There Are No Girls on the Internet - March 05, 2021


DISINFORMED: What Vanessa Guillen can teach us about disinformation

Topics
DISINFORMED: Meet the activist using data science to fights Nazis DISINFORMED: Meghan Markle has been the target of a racist harassment campaign

Episode Stats


Length

49 minutes

Words per minute

158.41

Word count

7,892

Sentence count

413

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Toxicity

14

sentences flagged

Hate speech

21

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.180 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches,
00:00:08.020 there's a lot of suspense.
00:00:09.440 Will they finally eat the veggies?
00:00:10.940 Will the pesto survive the first bite?
00:00:12.980 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?
00:00:17.020 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?
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00:00:49.980 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:00:55.400 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:04.060 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:01:12.300 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:01:14.080 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:01:26.780 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:01:32.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,
00:01:38.200 and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:01:43.380 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:51.940 This episode talks about sexual assault, murder, and suicide.
00:01:58.520 You're listening to Disinformed, a miniseries from There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:02:03.480 I'm Bridget Todd.
00:02:08.260 We already know that dis and misinformation is targeting the Latinx community.
00:02:13.200 Now, VotoLatino, the largest Latinx voter registration organization in the U.S., and Media Matters are fighting back.
00:02:20.940 Last week, they announced the launch of the Latino Anti-Disinformation Lab,
00:02:24.920 which will work to better understand and combat misinformation at all stages, on all mediums, seeking primarily to influence Latinx individuals.
00:02:32.620 Now, a few weeks ago, we spoke to Meghna Mahadevan, chief disinformation defense strategist at United We Dream,
00:02:38.540 the country's largest immigrant youth-led organization, about how those who want to
00:02:42.780 spread confusion and chaos can prey on immigrant communities and their fears and traumas, 0.97
00:02:47.700 and also inflame existing tensions and fragments, like tensions that exist between the Black
00:02:52.660 community and the Latinx community. Here's what she had to say.
00:02:56.860 Particularly with the Latinx community, there's also a lot of work being done by white supremacists
00:03:02.860 to create a wedge racially with the Latinx community and other communities of color.
00:03:09.780 And the way that this is done is very strategically, almost creating a race hierarchy of affiliating
00:03:16.300 Latinx with more whiteness and kind of trying to create a separation from Blackness. 0.78
00:03:21.500 It also is a full erasure of the Afro-Latinx identity. 0.96
00:03:24.460 So by using race as this wedge issue to divide communities and create this superiority among some Latinx folks, there's really a way to misinform people that by accepting and siding with white supremacy, you are now offered the privilege of being white.
00:03:45.100 The case of Vanessa Guillen, a 20-year-old Mexican-American soldier who was murdered last spring, is a good example of what Meghna is talking about.
00:03:53.040 We covered this situation on There Are No Girls on the Internet this summer, and it was one of the toughest topics I've ever covered.
00:03:59.580 Even though I already knew that bad actors will often hijack sensitive topics to stoke division, it was still painful to see that there was no bottom to how low they'll stoop, including using a young woman's tragic death. 0.95
00:04:11.920 Let's listen in on what Vanessa Guillen's death can teach us about disinformation. 0.97
00:04:17.000 Vanessa Guillen was a 20-year-old soldier in the U.S. Army.
00:04:20.740 She loved sports.
00:04:22.120 She played soccer and liked to jog.
00:04:24.260 In April, she went missing from the Fort Hood military base in Texas.
00:04:29.180 On July 5th, her remains were confirmed to have been found.
00:04:34.500 Vanessa Guillen was a 20-year-old soldier in the U.S. Army.
00:04:38.160 She loved sports.
00:04:39.560 She played soccer and liked to jog.
00:04:41.240 In April, she went missing from the Fort Hood military base in Texas.
00:04:46.580 On July 5th, her remains were confirmed to have been found.
00:04:50.700 Here's her sister talking to ABC News.
00:04:53.380 She was taken away from me the most horrible way, yet they take it if it was a joke.
00:04:59.480 My sister's no joke. My sister's a human being just like me, her, all of us.
00:05:04.840 Aaron David Robinson, another soldier, killed himself as police for trying to take him into custody for her murder.
00:05:11.800 Before she died, Guillen told her mother that she was being sexually harassed.
00:05:16.660 Fort Hood has one of the highest rates of murder, sexual assault, and harassment in the Army.
00:05:22.960 Online, many other soldiers use what happened to her
00:05:25.820 to come forward to share their own stories about sexual harassment in the military,
00:05:30.740 using the call, I am Vanessa Guillen.
00:05:33.800 Her family is demanding changes in how the military handles sexual harassment complaints,
00:05:38.260 and protesters around the country
00:05:40.360 amplified her family's demands for answers and change.
00:05:44.080 Guillen's death is a terrible tragedy
00:05:45.660 and for as many people used her death
00:05:48.260 to highlight important conversations
00:05:49.820 about how our country's institutions
00:05:51.680 fail the very people who fight for our country,
00:05:55.220 others used it to fuel hate and confusion online.
00:05:59.900 Researchers and digital activists
00:06:01.500 are seeing the way her tragic story
00:06:03.260 is being used to fuel disinformation
00:06:05.100 in Latinx online spaces.
00:06:07.580 Because her killer was believed to be a Black man,
00:06:10.440 big Facebook pages began promoting stories about Vanessa's death
00:06:13.440 as a way to sow divisions between Latinx communities and Black Lives Matter advocates.
00:06:19.240 Unfortunately, when it comes to how disinformation spreads online, this isn't at all uncommon.
00:06:25.160 Bad actors pick up on sensitive or emotionally charged topics involving wedge issues like race
00:06:30.100 and use them to spread fear, confusion, and suspicion among each other.
00:06:34.340 They often exploit existing fractures between communities to pit marginalized groups against each other.
00:06:40.540 But because we don't actually spend a lot of time talking about marginalized communities in general, let alone how our identities shape the online experience, we aren't talking about the big threat this tactic presents.
00:06:51.380 And it's a problem.
00:06:52.080 So the first time that I actually became aware of how targeted our folks are was in 2016 when I saw someone on my Facebook posted a picture of an ICE agent or someone who looked like an ICE agent with sort of the ICE acronym in the back of his jacket arresting someone at what looked like was a polling location.
00:07:22.080 and it was something along the lines that someone had posted and said,
00:07:26.120 be careful, everyone, ICE is, you know, around the voting location.
00:07:32.200 And, you know, when I looked at it closely, I was like, well, this looks,
00:07:35.460 this picture looks photoshopped.
00:07:37.960 But that was sort of the first time that I saw something that I was like, huh,
00:07:42.680 they're actually,
00:07:43.820 somebody's actually thinking this through and kind of knows the nerves of the
00:07:48.580 community in terms of the fear, the fears that exist in our community.
00:07:52.080 Even though we all know that, you know, undocumented people are not going to go vote, but the message that we're trying to send is like, you know, immigration is doing raids around voting locations, you know, therefore people might just be fearful of going because, you know, some folks are living mixed status families and so on and so forth.
00:08:11.620 So that was sort of the first time that I saw something, and it just made me pause and think about the level of disinformation that was spreading, targeting the Latino community.
00:08:23.120 Vanessa Cardenas is a longtime activist and policy expert.
00:08:27.540 She's seen the way that disinformation online plays on our community's fear to create confusion.
00:08:33.680 But when she saw the way Guillen's story was being used online, she was shocked.
00:08:37.520 So that was actually really shocking because obviously the Vanessa Guillen case has touched such a nerve in the community in the sense of, you know, this soldier that, you know, had dedicated her life for her country.
00:08:54.720 So I guess I would say, you know, probably like two weeks, well, maybe like a little bit right after they identify the suspect of the case, you know, I would say days after it, I started seeing some of these pictures and memes about pretty much about the suspected killer and just driving this message of, you know, black and brown tension.
00:09:24.720 and just amplifying the sort of the message,
00:09:29.240 oh, you know, where is the Black Lives Matter movement
00:09:31.920 when it comes to a Latina that has been killed by a black person?
00:09:38.620 So that was, again, really eye-opening, 0.96
00:09:43.360 but I also feel it was, at least for me by then,
00:09:46.920 I was already just, I've been aware more of sort of the disinformation
00:09:50.140 that's been spreading, so I was not surprised.
00:09:53.300 But again, I think it just speaks to the level of this strategy that's out there about amplifying fear, distrust, and just creating wedges between these communities, which I think we're going to see more of.
00:10:09.060 And these bad actors are really using every opportunity they can to actually, you know, create these wedges.
00:10:16.640 Facebook groups with big followings and reach
00:10:18.740 made posts about Guillen's death, 0.72
00:10:21.560 asking why the Latinx community should support Black Lives Matter
00:10:24.180 when a Black man killed one of their own. 0.98
00:10:26.840 The intention is pretty clear. 0.64
00:10:28.620 Rather than amplifying her important story
00:10:30.700 and her family's calls for justice and change,
00:10:33.100 it's an attempt to use her story to sow mistrust
00:10:35.540 and animosity between marginalized communities.
00:10:38.500 Why?
00:10:39.940 Researchers say it has to do with the upcoming election.
00:10:43.580 Acoba Lacona is the disinformation research lead at Equis Labs, a group that works to build an active Latino electorate.
00:10:50.880 His team saw pretty much the same thing she did.
00:10:53.960 That Guillen's story was being used to criticize Black Lives Matter and the protests that followed the death of unarmed Black people like George Floyd by police.
00:11:01.100 we started seeing conservative latinx accounts including you know spanish language pages trying
00:11:06.120 to build racial tension between black and latinx communities after they found her body and her
00:11:12.540 death was confirmed and so we saw conservative latinx actors starting to criticize black lives
00:11:17.680 matter for not protesting her death and for staying silent and you know after they found her
00:11:22.340 body the man who was linked to her murder uh killed himself either the same day or the next
00:11:27.140 day. And so we saw conservative Latinx accounts promoting, you know, race blindness around
00:11:31.120 Guillen by amplifying the fact that the killer was a black man and that, you know, they started 0.83
00:11:37.040 promoting all lives matter narratives and things like that. So we saw, you know, different memes
00:11:41.860 comparing the black man who killed Guillen to the white police officer and essentially saying,
00:11:46.840 you know, promoting a narrative that race has nothing to do with Floyd's killing. Or we also
00:11:51.440 saw bad actors, you know, asking why Latinos weren't, were protesting for BLM, but weren't
00:11:57.000 protesting for other Latinos like Vanessa. And so, you know, there was a lot of racial tension
00:12:03.020 building early on once, you know, reports came, once reports came out and they found her body.
00:12:08.340 So do you think the people who were running these accounts actually cared about sharing
00:12:11.400 Guillen's story? No, I mean, I think they're definitely trying to make it like a wedge issue.
00:12:16.180 We often see, even just in other narratives, bad actors trying to, you know, seek to inflame pre-existing tensions within and between communities.
00:12:26.960 So, you know, part of their goal is to depress votes in more progressive communities, including the Latinx community.
00:12:34.080 And so if they can build a wedge between Black and Latinx voters, they can, you know, potentially drive some of those people to Trump in November. 0.99
00:12:40.380 but i think one big problem here is that you know within the latinx community we've kind of failed
00:12:46.000 to confront the anti-blackness that exists in our own community and i think the far right definitely
00:12:51.120 takes advantage of that to stoke racial tension so you know one thing it's important that we start
00:12:56.100 acknowledging the anti-blackness that exists in our community and show unity um and you know we
00:13:02.740 should especially be doing this because again like black and latinx are not mutually exclusive you
00:13:07.060 know, the far right. And many people in the Latinx community tend to ignore the Afro-Latinx
00:13:11.340 community. And so especially the right, you know, the right is effectively excluding them from the
00:13:15.840 from their narratives. And we should ignore and I don't think we should be ignoring that. So like
00:13:20.140 going back to Vanessa's death specifically, you know, I think with an increase in attention on
00:13:27.900 Black Lives Matter and even, you know, brands responding to, you know, current moments of
00:13:32.720 racial justice, we see a lot of bad actors looking for opportunities to create division among
00:13:38.160 communities of color. Let's take a quick break.
00:13:48.620 Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat
00:13:53.720 the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full,
00:13:58.940 or come home at all.
00:14:00.460 And will you finish episode eight
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00:14:48.420 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:14:53.700 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:15:00.700 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:15:04.400 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.
00:15:12.580 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:15:16.700 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:15:21.480 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:15:29.100 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:15:33.000 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:15:36.440 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:15:40.080 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:47.860 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:15:54.740 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:16:06.920 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:16:14.040 I'm going to have to look up this story.
00:16:15.940 I'm obsessed.
00:16:16.580 I'm obsessed.
00:16:17.080 from bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments
00:16:22.060 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling
00:16:28.620 characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart
00:16:33.900 pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much
00:16:38.640 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever
00:16:45.120 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. And we're back. Facebook is a big part of how
00:16:56.680 this all goes down. For instance, the pro-Trump Facebook group The Conservative Choice has over
00:17:01.780 100,000 followers. And many of their posts are dedicated to criticizing Black celebrities like
00:17:06.900 Colin Kaepernick, Black Lives Matter, and calls for racial justice. One post even accuses Facebook,
00:17:13.220 the company itself, of supporting racism by telling people to avoid Latino businesses
00:17:18.120 because of an initiative highlighting Black-owned business.
00:17:22.000 Similarly, online, protesters' calls for businesses to hire more Black people
00:17:26.700 get twisted into them calling for businesses not to hire Latinos. 0.50
00:17:30.920 Many of the other posts on the page are videos or images depicting violent attacks on Latinos 0.92
00:17:36.440 or Latino-owned businesses by Black people to drive home the idea that the Latinx community 0.97
00:17:41.160 shouldn't trust or support the Black community. 0.86
00:17:44.820 Like a kobo, Vanessa also sees the ways that anti-Blackness 0.88
00:17:48.600 and the erasure of Afro-Latinx identities
00:17:51.000 have presented fractures and tensions in communities of color
00:17:55.480 that bad actors can exploit online.
00:18:00.220 So Vanessa, what kind of content have you seen online
00:18:02.660 being used to sow division within communities of color?
00:18:05.540 Yeah, so we're seeing a lot of stories, for example,
00:18:09.680 of Black men 0.97
00:18:12.020 violently attacking Latino 0.99
00:18:13.880 men, you know, very graphic, 0.99
00:18:16.020 very violent post pictures.
00:18:18.980 That's one thing.
00:18:20.000 And I should say something
00:18:21.440 also, Bridget, that is that
00:18:23.580 we know that there are Black people in the
00:18:25.760 Latino community. Like, we have a rich
00:18:27.800 history of Afro,
00:18:30.040 you know, of African descent in the
00:18:32.000 community, whether it's the Caribbean or Peru.
00:18:34.160 And I'm from Bolivia, and even in
00:18:35.960 Bolivia, we have Bolivians
00:18:37.900 who are of African descent.
00:18:39.680 So, you know, but the way this information efforts, you know, what they're trying to do is just, you know, make us look like the other, right?
00:18:49.800 Like separate us. 0.94
00:18:51.240 So you do have sort of, like I was saying, this really graphic post just amplifying violence that is in how they describe it or in how they post it, you know, by black men. 0.93
00:19:04.540 there's also a lot of content out there about painting the black lives movement about you know 0.91
00:19:10.980 that is violent um they have a lot of content that's showing for example that the black lives
00:19:17.500 movement protesters are destroying churches or burning bibles so really going at sort of you
00:19:24.280 know some of the the themes of you know the latino community it's it's very you know faith
00:19:29.180 center. And so they're trying to sort of, again, go at this pressure point and hit those nerves
00:19:36.200 where the community, on things that the community cares about. We are, on the Vanessa Gillian case,
00:19:42.120 there's been a lot of content out there amplifying that her, that the alleged killer was
00:19:48.240 Black and promoting the All Lives Matter narrative and questioning how come the Black Lives
00:19:53.700 movement doesn't show up for Latinos when Latinos are being killed and so on and so forth. 0.57
00:19:59.180 So that's the type of content we're seeing now. And again, we know that every time there's a flashpoint or every time there's something that's happening just, you know, at a national level or even at a local level.
00:20:14.180 I mean, there was a there were some posts. I think it was, I want to say in Luciana about just about the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:20:26.500 I think that there was a demand that, you know, all businesses should hire people of color.
00:20:31.960 and but they how they were how the the bots or the sort of the disinformation but actors were
00:20:37.780 trying to frame it was that the black lives movement were forcing latino business owners
00:20:43.400 to hire not to hire you know non-latinos so things like that right so they're trying to again
00:20:50.280 press this um this this really um specific issues in the community where they know that it hits a
00:20:57.760 nerve and just amplify those. And we know we're going to be getting more of those as
00:21:02.820 things get just more heated as we come closer to the election.
00:21:07.740 All truly blessed at the same time to have a leader like President Trump, who is a builder.
00:21:14.820 Bad actors online seize on conversations that require sensitivity or nuance to talk about,
00:21:20.260 just like they had no problem seizing on Guillen's death to push harmful narratives online.
00:21:25.820 After Goya's CEO faced backlash for praising Trump earlier this year,
00:21:29.960 some accounts purporting to belong to Latino social media users
00:21:32.980 used it to spread accusations of a mob of PC bullies
00:21:36.860 attacking a hard-working community of color.
00:21:40.100 But Win Black, Palante, a group that trains voters to identify disinformation,
00:21:45.400 found that some of the accounts pushing this narrative were actually bots.
00:21:50.200 Online, the Goya controversy appeared to boil down to Black Lives Matter
00:21:54.240 versus the Latinx community.
00:21:57.420 Ashley Bryant works with Wynn Black-Pallante,
00:21:59.840 and she says social media platforms
00:22:02.040 aren't doing enough to curb the spread
00:22:03.680 of this kind of disinformation.
00:22:05.540 We just experienced a couple weeks ago
00:22:08.400 when the Goya CEO, you know,
00:22:11.680 decided to share his support for Trump.
00:22:15.340 And that became a controversy in itself,
00:22:17.900 but also unleashed a right-wing operation
00:22:22.400 around, you know, trying to really disparage the true message.
00:22:27.780 You know, Julian Castro and AOC, you know, really stepped up and shared, you know, if
00:22:34.320 you share the values of Trump, you are not supporting our community.
00:22:38.420 And, you know, we saw a bot be unleashed on Facebook within, you know, a couple of hours.
00:22:46.560 And it took a couple of days before Facebook was able to actually remove these, you know, fake comments, fake agents.
00:22:56.400 And our operations saw it within a day. Right.
00:22:59.160 And so it's just, you know, there's hundreds of people in their organization that are allegedly focused on this.
00:23:05.700 But yet we were able to identify that these were bots in just under a couple of hours.
00:23:10.780 And so, you know, it really is disheartening to see that these companies aren't really ready to step up into this moment.
00:23:20.120 This isn't a partisan issue, right?
00:23:22.340 Misinformation and disinformation is not a political issue.
00:23:26.940 It is literally to suppress entire communities that need to exercise their right to vote.
00:23:32.760 And if these tech companies don't see it that way, you really have to question what their purposes are.
00:23:38.040 Vanessa also saw the way that conversations around Goya oversimplified the narrative online.
00:23:43.740 But she says the narrative's pushing division, even when Trump himself picks up on it, probably won't resonate much with most folks in the Latinx community.
00:23:53.460 I mean, I think they're trying really hard to sort of make the connection.
00:23:56.680 Obviously, even the Trump administration picked up on it, getting Ivanka to post that ridiculous tweet with her holding a can of Goya beans.
00:24:07.980 Again, I think they're just sort of trying to amplify these wedges and just really, in the case of Goya, you know, I think that the average Latino who's, you know, again, losing their jobs because of COVID and just trying to figure out how they're going to survive this pandemic.
00:24:24.480 this is not something that resonates with them. But I do think, again, there's online, there's
00:24:31.300 just this effort to say, you know, Democrats are against business owners, Democrats are trying to
00:24:36.300 shut this down, when we know that that's, you know, that that was not the case. I mean, people
00:24:41.280 have, the thing that people had issue with were the comments of the Goya president, who, again,
00:24:46.460 is supporting Trump. And Trump, we know, is driving a very divisive and just really anti-Latino
00:24:53.660 agenda. So that's the point. And I think part of this, again, this disinformation effort is just 0.95
00:24:58.340 to confuse the truth, right? It's just to take attention from the real issues and just focus
00:25:04.100 it on sort of these specific narratives that benefits them. And it goes along to sort of
00:25:09.480 their overall frame, that Democrats are socialists, that Democrats, you know, don't believe in God,
00:25:16.800 that Democrats, you know, are just driving a socialist agenda, and they don't want anyone
00:25:22.480 to be successful. So again, it just goes off the broader narratives that they're trying to push.
00:25:29.560 Once an official Trump Facebook page, or even Trump himself,
00:25:33.620 signal boosts these narratives, they can spread far and wide.
00:25:37.580 Sometimes it's not even helpful to know where it's coming from, because anything that's getting
00:25:40.980 a lot of engagement, it's going to circulate pretty far. You know, like Trump, for example,
00:25:45.560 is the biggest amplifier of this info. And it allows other bad actors to follow him,
00:25:51.000 which can, you know, really increase conversations around certain topics.
00:25:54.560 But, you know, when it comes to Latinx spaces,
00:25:57.080 there's a network of conservative Latinx Facebook groups
00:26:00.280 that are part of this movement called Lexit.
00:26:03.120 And they tend to work together and, you know,
00:26:04.760 coordinate attacks across their network of pages.
00:26:07.820 So the Lexit movement itself, it gained prominence in 2018
00:26:11.300 as, you know, an effort to help Latinos exit the Democratic Party
00:26:14.200 or the left and kind of embrace more conservative values.
00:26:18.480 There's actually another one called Lexit,
00:26:20.080 which is a little more popular. And it's kind of like equivalent for the black community 0.97
00:26:22.860 and trying to push more black people to embrace conservative values. But the network of Lexit 0.75
00:26:29.600 Facebook pages, they have a wide range in their audiences. So like, depending on certain Facebook
00:26:33.440 pages, some have hundreds of thousands of followers, others have tens of thousands of
00:26:37.880 followers, but they frequently share, you know, misleading and factually incorrect narratives.
00:26:44.260 And they tend to coordinate within each other, but also with the Latinos for Trump network,
00:26:48.700 which is an official Latinx page for the Trump campaign.
00:26:53.660 So when they're able to coordinate with each other,
00:26:55.240 they're able to push narratives to more feeds
00:26:57.200 and allow more people to see it.
00:27:00.060 You might expect to see messages about people on the left
00:27:02.520 being godless socialists who hate hardworking business owners
00:27:05.720 from a Facebook page that is explicitly advocating for Trump.
00:27:09.740 But Acobo says that pages that appear to be nonpartisan
00:27:12.540 can sometimes present an even bigger threat
00:27:15.080 when it comes to the spread of harmful narratives online.
00:27:17.420 Yeah, so I think the reality is that we often see less partisan Latinx pages help spread disinformation, especially around conversations that either resonate with the Latinx community or conversations in the mainstream media.
00:27:34.080 And the real problem is that these nonpartisan spaces, they often become more dangerous in the far right spaces because they appear to be more trustworthy messengers and people tend to believe or trust what these pages are promoting.
00:27:49.440 So, I mean, even around narratives around Guillen, it reached less partisan Latinx spaces.
00:27:55.780 And for example, I saw one Facebook page that was intended to bring, you know, Mexicans together and it has hundreds of thousands of followers.
00:28:02.060 And they're typically posting, you know, more cultural type things.
00:28:06.020 But they started posting narratives around Guillen that appear to try to build tension within the Latinx community.
00:28:10.620 and again so like when they do that these the people who are following these pages they start
00:28:18.080 you know believing some of these messages because you know they're not in those pages for partisan
00:28:22.580 reasons so these less partisan online spaces that are created where people feel like they are
00:28:28.360 a part of a community but then disinformation comes in it's like the stuff around like the
00:28:33.440 stuff around Guillen they're more likely to believe this these narratives. One of our concerns as we
00:28:39.820 look at how this information is spreading is the fact that we're seeing some of this content
00:28:45.740 migrate from very partisan pages to non-partisan pages, especially around the Vanessa Guillen
00:28:53.340 case and her murder and all of that. We saw, for example, a lot of Mexican organizing pages,
00:29:02.680 you know, the hometown associations and people who really were following the case super closely
00:29:08.540 to start picking up some of these right and and they have you know thousands of retweets and
00:29:15.140 and that's the concern right and and again it's because it is i think that also the message for
00:29:22.500 us for progressives is that it is so important to magnify our message our message of solidarity
00:29:30.600 our message of supporting each other's movements our message of you know that we're all in this
00:29:37.580 together. And I think that is the real, that's the real challenge for us because we're not going
00:29:44.100 to be able to, you know, what was happening on the right or in the circles or among these bad
00:29:49.260 actors, we're not really going to be able to minimize that. What we can do is inoculate
00:29:57.180 ourselves and our community against it. And that is by building trust affirmatively and intentionally
00:30:06.640 and elevating trusted voices so that when somebody sees this, you know, this post, they
00:30:13.860 are like, wait, but, you know, I saw another post from someone in my community that I respect
00:30:18.940 and I know, and they are posting positive content that speaks about unity.
00:30:24.180 So I think for us, that's the challenge.
00:30:26.420 How are we magnifying the positive vision and the positive content to actually inoculate
00:30:33.640 ourselves and inoculate our communities from this content?
00:30:36.520 And it's not easy. I'm not saying, you know, and I think progressives right now we have our hands full, but I think that's the challenge that we need to create content, amplify content, not go down the rabbit hole.
00:30:49.820 You know, one of the actually the hardest things about this information that we often share with progressives is don't amplify it because and that is actually harder than it sounds because sometimes people in the effort not to amplify it, they actually retweet it, you know,
00:31:05.560 because there's or they repost it because they're trying to debunk the claim.
00:31:10.240 But just by, you know, retweeting about it or reposting, you're actually, even if you're saying this is not true,
00:31:17.220 you are, in fact, getting more eyes on that post.
00:31:21.100 And that's, you know, that's the problem.
00:31:24.060 More after this quick break.
00:31:25.340 We'll be right back.
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00:32:26.880 Call 844-844-IHEART to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART. If your bookshelf and your
00:32:33.800 for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society,
00:32:40.500 the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture
00:32:45.300 obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level
00:32:49.600 of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,
00:32:54.560 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this
00:32:59.120 story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to
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00:33:27.540 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.
00:33:32.620 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived,
00:33:39.280 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:33:44.960 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:33:48.560 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96
00:33:54.000 shut up, don't say anything.
00:33:56.760 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98
00:34:01.180 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:34:05.620 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,
00:34:10.380 and I just started screaming.
00:34:12.700 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:34:17.160 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:34:20.600 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:34:24.240 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:34:37.080 Let's get right back to it.
00:34:39.000 Talking about disinformation online is difficult.
00:34:42.420 And because of the nature of algorithms,
00:34:44.620 when you try to respond to correct the record,
00:34:46.620 you could actually be accidentally amplifying it
00:34:49.340 because you're giving it more engagement.
00:34:51.280 It's also important to keep in mind
00:34:52.700 that this isn't just stuff happening online.
00:34:55.800 Disinformation has real consequences
00:34:57.740 because it translates to real-world behavior. 1.00
00:35:00.400 And right now, with the Latinx community
00:35:02.640 representing a growing and important voting bloc,
00:35:05.220 it has big implications for the upcoming election.
00:35:07.840 Okobo says this kind of disinformation is meant to push Latinx voters
00:35:12.540 to either vote for Trump or to not vote at all
00:35:15.620 like that phony picture of immigration arrests
00:35:18.380 outside of polling places that Vanessa mentioned earlier
00:35:20.700 This is kind of personal for me
00:35:22.960 I've seen the way dangerous disinformation has impacted my own community
00:35:26.920 Communities of color have good reason to be skeptical
00:35:31.060 of our political and medical institutions 1.00
00:35:32.960 Institutions that historically we can't always trust
00:35:38.220 But COVID has just made everything worse.
00:35:41.360 I see memes spreading false information about COVID and the election,
00:35:45.540 being shared by people that I love, and it just makes me feel so frustrated.
00:35:50.560 Yeah, you talked earlier about the importance of inoculating your community against disinformation,
00:35:55.580 and I really felt that.
00:35:58.860 You know, my people are Black, we're from the South.
00:36:01.780 When it comes to things like voting, it is not always as easy as just going to vote.
00:36:05.800 You know, in these states, there are voter ID laws and other kinds of barriers to just going and casting your ballot.
00:36:14.460 So I really see a lot of disinformation being spread around voting.
00:36:18.120 And particularly now with COVID, I've seen a lot of elders in my own community posting things that I know are rooted in this very real fear around COVID.
00:36:29.760 And I understand where it comes from.
00:36:31.940 You know, COVID has ravaged black and brown communities.
00:36:34.200 So these folks are like, their concerns are very valid. It's been a frustrating challenge to acknowledge and validate these very real fears in my own community, while also not letting people that I care about give over to fear and spread harmful, incorrect information because they're fearful. It's been a challenge.
00:37:00.160 No, and I so connect with you on that point, and I can totally relate.
00:37:07.160 You know, I am first generation.
00:37:09.160 Most of my family or, like, my aunts and uncles, they came here when they're adults.
00:37:13.840 So they are just, you know, this is a, I think it's really important for us to realize that this is a very difficult moment.
00:37:20.380 It is a very confusing moment, you know, and I think especially the older generation, they're just like, they just don't know what's happening, you know,
00:37:28.480 And they're fearful for the future.
00:37:31.140 And they are, you know, they see what's happening, you know, in our country with Trump.
00:37:35.580 They see COVID.
00:37:36.500 They see their employment gains being erased.
00:37:39.440 They see their incomes being erased.
00:37:41.580 And then our health, you know, we are the communities that are feeling the brunt of the impact of the pandemic.
00:37:47.980 Now, on top of that, you add this whole, you know, the new process of vote by mail, right?
00:37:53.800 It's a new process for a lot of folks.
00:37:55.500 They're not familiar how to, you know, request a ballot. They have never voted by mail, many of them. And then the other piece of this is even for young people, like, oh, yeah, they don't carry around a book of stamps like some of us did, right?
00:38:10.580 So when you think about it, you know, it really presents a lot of challenges. And that's why, you know, I think that, again, part of our challenge as progressives is, you know, how are we, what voter education efforts are we implementing, even in this era of COVID, when everything has to be done virtually.
00:38:30.000 I think that's going to force us to innovate, but also to have those conversations that we've been putting off.
00:38:37.660 Because I do believe that the best way to inoculate people is to just have an honest conversation.
00:38:44.360 And you're not going to be able to convince your aunt or uncle the first time.
00:38:49.880 But I think just starting to have those conversations about what's happening in our country, you know, why their voice is so important.
00:38:57.560 and how this process is changing.
00:39:01.760 And just repeating that message over and over again,
00:39:04.640 I think it's one of the most effective strategies.
00:39:08.260 And again, like I said earlier,
00:39:10.580 the best way to inoculate yourselves
00:39:12.440 is like when you have a trusted messenger,
00:39:15.340 when you have someone who's in the community,
00:39:17.820 who people go to for information,
00:39:20.120 those are, I think,
00:39:22.440 those are the people that are going to help us
00:39:25.960 face this really onslaught of disinformation because they are the ones that the community
00:39:34.060 listens to. And that's why we need to empower those folks with the tools that they need and
00:39:38.660 information that they need and just help drive that message and that positive message that I
00:39:45.700 was speaking about earlier. So what can everyday people do to help curb the spread of disinformation
00:39:53.360 and misinformation, particularly in marginalized communities?
00:39:56.540 Yeah.
00:39:57.020 Well, the first thing I would say is just really be careful about what you are amplifying
00:40:01.460 online.
00:40:02.480 What might seem harmless to you is probably not harmless, right?
00:40:07.840 So just really always be mindful of your sources and the messages that you are posting.
00:40:14.300 So that would be the very first thing.
00:40:16.760 The second thing is, you know, it's informing yourselves, especially when we talk about
00:40:21.520 voting and because we know that's actually going to be a big um target of the attacks and the
00:40:26.800 disinformation moving forward especially as we get closer to election and especially because this new
00:40:32.160 process is around vote by mail so really informing yourself of yourselves about the the deadlines
00:40:38.080 and the requirements on voting absentee or voting by mail so that you can share that information
00:40:44.480 um with your community and your loved ones and and then the the third thing is again you know just
00:40:51.120 trying to amplify a positive message, a message of unity and solidarity.
00:40:55.540 I think if we do that, it will go a long way because right now, bad actors are trying to amplify fear.
00:41:04.800 Therefore, we need to amplify a positive message, a positive vision for our movement and for our country moving forward.
00:41:12.320 Ashley's team at Win Black Palante is taking this message to heart.
00:41:15.480 Rather than waiting for tech leaders like Mark Zuckerberg to do the right thing and curb the spread of harmful disinformation on their platforms, her team has established a disinformation war room to train Black and Latinx voters and other grassroots advocacy organizations to spot disinformation themselves and provides messaging tools to counter it with accurate information without amplifying it.
00:41:39.000 our strategy is really teaching people that we don't want to amplify the misinformation, right?
00:41:45.500 That is counterproductive. But what we do want to do is put in the space counter narratives
00:41:50.920 while also educating folks. And so we have a daily war room where we bring our team together
00:41:58.520 to go over analysis, go over our research briefs. And so it really adds another level of authenticity
00:42:05.720 because it's not just, you know, our campaign that's trying to come in and talk to folks,
00:42:10.480 but we're working with these organizations that have created a sense of community with
00:42:14.540 their, not just their online audiences, but, you know, the citizens within their regions.
00:42:20.960 And we're able to really spread this message of like, look, this is how you identify.
00:42:25.700 These people are trolls.
00:42:27.000 They are bots.
00:42:27.960 They are not trying to appeal to you in any way beyond trying to mislead you.
00:42:34.020 And you should know this.
00:42:35.180 And the only way to fight back is to register and vote.
00:42:38.680 Loosely translated, the slang term Palante means to go forward.
00:42:44.180 And Ashley's team at Win Black Palante are working to help communities of color go forward stronger in solidarity.
00:42:52.440 You know, I can't help but notice that your organization has two names, Win Black and Palante.
00:42:57.360 You know, we see these narratives being pushed by bad actors that the Latinx community and the Black community, we can't work together. 0.66
00:43:05.560 We have to be living in fear of each other. We have to be suspicious of each other. 0.86
00:43:09.500 Not only does this framework obviously erase the fact that there are plenty of Afro-Latinas out there, but it's also just not true. 0.99
00:43:16.960 And I guess my question is, how do we get to a place where we can present the truth that our communities are stronger together?
00:43:24.320 Absolutely. And I mean, you took half my answer in the last in your last sentence, because simply that's the truth.
00:43:31.280 We are stronger together and they know that. And so they want to do anything to divide these two communities.
00:43:38.340 And, you know, it's simply just disgusting, quite honestly.
00:43:41.400 I mean, we most recently were seeing this misinformation around, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement did put out a letter that was that was kind of describing some of their demands.
00:43:54.080 And we're seeing a lot of right wing operatives that are boiling it down, taking out a lot of the context within the letter and sharing that the Black Lives Matter movement are against immigrants or they are, you know, doing mafia tactics, if you will, which is simply just not the truth.
00:44:15.200 And they're spreading these untruths in a very broad manner. And so, you know, it's really important for us. And I'm glad that you underscored the palante, because we do have a Latinx focus. And because we want to bring our two communities together in this fight, there's so many critical issues that both communities share. Right.
00:44:36.500 But also neither of these communities are monolithic. And it's really almost embarrassing to see that a lot of these operatives think of our communities as such. And so they're doing these tactics to really, you know, it's almost like this distributed racism to really pit these two communities against each other.
00:44:58.940 And so we're really building a sense of let's educate Black voters, Latinx voters, let's educate folks on what are the issues that really matter to us, who are the leaders in this space that are supporting our issues, are supporting our values, and then also recognizing that, again, we're not monolithic.
00:45:19.540 We need to speak to voters as individuals. And we're not just pitting everyone against each other. We're working under an administration right now that is trying to divide this country at every turn.
00:45:32.980 And so it's really important that as we are mobilizing and reaching voters, that at every step of the way, we are trying to unite folks under one goal, which is to make sure that we have a democracy that represents our communities, that represents our issues, and that is going to fight to actually move our communities forward.
00:45:53.040 Vanessa Guillen deserved better.
00:45:55.220 And today, she deserves better than having her story fuel mistrust and hate in our communities.
00:46:00.840 And we, too, deserve better than being fed the myth
00:46:03.780 that our communities can only exist in conflict with one another.
00:46:07.420 Our oppression, like our freedom, is all linked.
00:46:11.040 And until we're all free, none of us is free.
00:46:14.040 To make sure that you and your community have the right information you need to vote,
00:46:17.860 go to vote.org.
00:46:24.640 If you enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing.
00:46:30.300 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech
00:46:34.220 or just want to say hi?
00:46:35.460 We'd love to hear from you at hello at tangody.com.
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00:46:44.220 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:46:46.360 Tari Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer.
00:46:49.340 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
00:46:51.620 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
00:46:53.140 For more great podcasts, check out the iHeartRadio app,
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00:47:00.300 I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:47:14.600 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files.
00:47:20.260 Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,
00:47:26.020 and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:47:31.660 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,
00:47:36.260 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:47:39.580 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,
00:47:43.780 welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for
00:47:49.320 anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:47:53.660 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture
00:47:57.140 with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:48:01.920 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:48:03.680 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:48:09.920 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.
00:48:13.800 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.
00:48:19.400 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.
00:48:26.580 You're not hired just to fill time and space.
00:48:29.400 You're hired to fill the space with you.
00:48:32.560 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:48:40.660 Our hometown is not a test tube.
00:48:43.320 90 miles northeast of Nashville, a battle for the future of America plays out in one small town.
00:48:49.400 Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land.
00:48:53.040 We need cities on a shining hill.
00:48:55.000 This is Our Town, a podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment and fights back. 0.97
00:49:03.280 Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you?
00:49:06.000 Listen to Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 0.98
00:49:14.580 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:49:17.460 Guaranteed human.
00:49:19.200 Thank you.