00:01:13.700I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:01:17.400Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:01:21.100abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:01:24.740These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:01:28.800Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:40.480There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:48.580I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:51.320welcome to their no girls on the internet where we explore the intersection of technology social
00:01:57.940media and identity and this is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we dig into all
00:02:02.900the stories from the internet that you might have missed so you don't have to and i am so excited
00:02:08.160to be joined once again by their no girls on the internet super producer joey pat joey thank you
00:02:14.640for being here on Yom Kippur no less yes thank you Bridget thanks for having me um yes the Yom
00:02:23.080Kippur special starring Joey Pat let's go uh I did not um partake in the Yom Kippur traditions
00:02:30.360this year nor do I any year because um I didn't want to uh so uh which is usually great clear0.63
00:02:38.240reason because um I didn't feel like it like okay it's like okay like quick change on Judaism
00:02:45.340really quick something with Yom Kippur that some people I guess people don't know it's like if
00:02:48.820you're like if you're you you're somebody who shouldn't fast like you're somebody who has like
00:02:53.940a health condition or you're elderly or younger you're not supposed to like it's it's it's like
00:02:58.340genuinely and I think Ramanan has like a similar rule like I think that is pretty common in most
00:03:02.240religions but like so I on the one hand I'm like I've you know had some issues with um
00:03:08.140remembering to eat uh in the past so I technically should not be fasting so I'm like I have the
00:03:14.960medical excuse however on the other hand it is like I am more of a cultural Jew and honestly
00:03:20.780if I'm going to give up one holiday tradition this is kind of the easiest one to like go of
00:03:26.260But yeah, respect and solidarity to all of my Jewish friends and family out there that are fasting. Proud of you guys. It is now past sunset, so you can eat again. Congrats. You are braver than I am.
00:03:40.940Okay. Well, in that vein, I have a story that I've put on here just frankly because I want your take on it. Do you remember when we were talking about how the Anti-Defamation League or the ADL, which is the self-described anti-Semitism watchdog and, quote, the leading anti-hate organization in the world?
00:03:58.820Do you remember back when we talked about how Elon Musk did a full on Nazi salute at the inauguration and the ADL was like, y'all, it's a joke.
00:04:12.100Yes, I do. And yes, that is that is basically what happened.
00:04:17.340Like, I was not even paraphrasing. They were like, guys, calm down.
00:04:20.100What? Okay, well, today, the FBI director, Kash Patel, announced that the FBI is cutting ties with the ADL and ending the FBI's longstanding partnership where the ADL would work with law enforcement to train them and share information about anti-Semitism, extremism, and all of that.
00:04:38.760Patel called the ADL a, quote, extreme group functioning like a terrorist organization.
00:04:44.920Patel also signaled out the relationship that the ADL has with former FBI director James Comey saying, oh, James Comey wrote love letters to the ADL and embedded FBI agents with them.
00:04:56.100A group that ran disgraceful ops spying on Americans.
00:05:00.060That era is over. This FBI won't partner with political fronts masquerading as watchdogs.
00:05:06.580And this is clearly because the FBI has gone woke and they understand that the ADL oftentimes uses very vague definitions of what anti-Semitism is to, you know, curb people that are protesting the state of Israel and some of their acts right now. That's obviously why, right? It's because they care. The FBI cares so much about like Palestinian human rights, obviously.
00:05:27.920I mean, I wish I could say it was that. I wish I could say that the FBI is calling out the ADL for this. Basically, what's going on is that the ADL published what they called a glossary of hate and extremism on its site. And it included things like Christian identity, which is an ideology rooted in the idea that God only meant for white folks to live in the Garden of Eden and that Jewish folks are actually descended from the biblical serpent.
00:05:53.280The ADL also listed Charlie Kirk's organization, Turning Points USA, in its glossary, saying
00:05:58.820that Turning Points USA, quote, has a history of bigoted statements about the Black community,
00:06:03.120the LGBTQ community, and specifically transgender people.
00:06:08.540He branded the ADL a hate group and accused them of encouraging murder, saying, using
00:06:14.400such false and defamatory labels about people and organizations encourages murder.
00:06:19.300So the ADL was like, we're sorry. And then just deleted this glossary of hate and extremism from their site. And they put out a statement saying, at the same time, an increasing number of entries in the glossary were outdated. We also saw the number of entries being intentionally misrepresented and misused. So something that I kind of can't stop thinking about is who is the ADL for at this point?
00:06:42.200I know exactly who they're for and for the same people that like Liz Cheney endorsing Kamala Harris was for. It's for like this. I think I'm not going to say imaginary because they do exist. I just think they are much smaller of a group and like they have way much less power than I think certain politicians kind of ascribe them to have.
00:07:06.580but it's for this like small group of primarily white upper middle class liberals um some of whom
00:07:14.640may be jewish a lot of whom probably aren't but probably like think that they're more or less
00:07:20.180progressive but still are holding a lot of i would say racist beliefs toward certain groups
00:07:30.700or communities. I think these are like the types of people that are like, well, I think deportations
00:07:37.300are good. I just don't like what ICE is doing right now. People that were willing to turn a
00:07:42.720blind eye when the Biden administration was doing things, you know, that were hurting immigrant
00:07:47.680communities and queer people and trans people and any other marginalized group. But now we're up in
00:07:54.040arms about it. I think like that is who this is for. This is one of those stories where I there
00:08:00.280was a story like last week that i think you said was like you were like this is setting off all of
00:08:04.220my like this was made perfectly in a lab like this is this kind of thing because on the one hand
00:08:10.500i am one of the adl's biggest haters i will be upfront about that they are a terribly run
00:08:16.060organization the idea great idea great concept the way it's run horrible the way that they define
00:08:22.960what anti-semitism is not accurate and deeply harmful they like this is a group that labels
00:08:30.140like prominent jewish activists and activist organizations as anti-semitic right but also
00:08:36.980cash patel uh not really somebody i want to be putting my faith and trust in to you know
00:08:46.560protect us from white christian evangelical xenophobic whatever um yeah again it's like
00:08:58.120i think like they did list they did on one hand like list groups like turning point and like
00:09:03.180this idea of like white christian nationalism like it highlighted a lot of these things
00:09:07.640it also was an organization that went after a lot of like black lives matter protesters a lot of
00:09:13.460people that were sort of aligned with um palestinian human rights not even like the liberation of a
00:09:20.640palestinian state like just straight up like acknowledging that these are people that have
00:09:24.300rights so yeah it's like i'm not really gonna this is how i think for me this is my jimmy kimmel
00:09:30.180like i'm i'm kind of like i don't want to be defending this group but in this one situation
00:09:37.260i guess i kind of have to be um i don't know that maybe that was not a the apt comparison but no i
00:09:45.360know what you mean where you don't it's like you find yourself defending organizations and people
00:09:50.820that you're like, I never thought I'd see myself defending.
00:09:53.180But I do, I want to ask you because I feel like this is an example of what happens
00:09:58.140when you kind of try to play ball and play nice with like a fascist organization or a fascist regime.
00:10:04.200I really think, like the statement that ADL put out, I found so sad.
00:10:10.260So after Kash Patel called them essentially a terrorist organization
00:10:14.460and Elon Musk said they were essentially like helping people murder by making their claims online.
00:10:20.820Their statement just said. ADL has deep respect for the FBI and law enforcement officers at all levels across the country who work tirelessly every single day to protect all Americans, regardless of their ancestry, religion, ethnicity, faith, political affiliation or any other point of difference.
00:10:36.180Their statement didn't even push back against these pretty big claims like they called you all terrorists.
00:10:42.160They said you were murderers. And it's just like, oh, well, we respect the FBI.
00:10:45.680I think that that's that toothless statement.
00:10:47.400It's like this is what happened. Like this is what happens when you play ball with fascists.
00:10:52.120No, for real. I mean, going back to like them getting called out or doing their job,
00:10:58.480But just having this encyclopedia of hate groups and symbols and stuff like that ideology, which, again, I didn't always agree with stuff they designated as hate groups.
00:11:11.500That being said, the fact that they were like, oh, we received a little bit of criticism from this about this from the Christian right.
00:11:19.760We're just going to take it down and be like, oh, we're so sorry. We love you, Elon Musk.
00:11:23.560I mean, like, before, like, Elon Musk kind of made his, you know, little hand gesture on TV and sort of, like, full Nazi turn all of a sudden, there was a point where Jonathan Greenblatt, who is the CEO of the ADL, was, like, on mic, like, praising Elon Musk and being like, yes, he's such an ally to the Jewish community.
00:11:47.460Like, I don't know, it is kind of like watching the ADL function for the past, like, like, since, you know, I think since I've become politically conscious, but also especially within the past year has been like, yeah, it is like watching a train wreck, but like watching a train wreck where there's like, like somebody waving with a sign that says I have a bomb and they were like able to stop or change course.
00:12:12.060And instead of doing that, they were like, well, why would he have a bomb?
00:15:49.020It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:15:56.940Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:16:06.100Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:31:52.600Okay, so after the horrible assassination of the Minnesota lawmaker, Melissa Hortman, her husband, Mark, and even her dog,
00:32:00.320we talked about how the attacker was able to get her home address and the home addresses of other Democratic lawmakers that he targeted through data brokers.
00:32:08.940So data brokers, it is an issue that I've talked about on this show.
00:32:13.500Data brokers endanger everybody, but especially anybody who is from a marginalized background.
00:32:18.260If you're a woman, if you're a trans person, if you're a queer person who's in the public eye or running for public office or holding elected office, you are going to be more likely to be disproportionately targeted by the fact that all of our personal information, including our addresses, are just available to the highest bidder online.
00:32:35.420So after that horrible attack, MSNBC published the items that the attacker had on him during
00:32:40.620the murders, and it included photos of a notepad they found in his car that had a long list
00:32:46.380of people search sites where anybody can basically find the home addresses of anybody in the
00:35:14.960That's hardly even an exaggeration because Ted Cruz decided that even though he gets this enhanced protection, the rest of us, we don't deserve it at all.
00:35:23.280And he blocked an effort to pass legislation that would have extended these data privacy protections that federal lawmakers like him enjoy to all of us.
00:35:32.860His reasoning behind this is truly wild to me, and it's wild to the point where I'm like, well, what's really going on?
00:35:38.320Because what you're saying doesn't even make sense.
00:35:40.100So the reason that he cited for why he doesn't think the rest of us deserve the same protections that him and his family get is because if all of our data wasn't just up for grabs, it might potentially interfere with law enforcement in some way, question mark? I don't know.
00:35:57.800So completely living up to his reputation as like a lonely pariah who everyone hates, Cruz was the sole objecting senator to this bill, claiming without evidence the bill could disrupt law enforcement, quote, such as knowing where sexual predators are living.
00:36:14.220But think about that for a second, because we already have a sex offender registry list that gives the addresses of where convicted sex offenders live.
00:36:24.780And TechCrunch spoke to Daniel Schumann, the executive director at the nonprofit, the American Governance Institute, who pointed that out, saying that that was completely wrong and that, yeah, federal law already requires a publicly available registry of sex offenders.
00:36:39.220He said that registry lists offenders' names and addresses online so parents and communities know where they live, adding that Wyden's bill leaves that system fully intact, explicitly permits law enforcement to share information with at-risk individuals, and exempts the press so news outlets can continue reporting freely on offenders.
00:36:57.600Nothing in the bill would prevent parents from being notified or limit public access to this critical information, Schumann said.
00:37:04.300So, yeah, Ted Cruz's explanation for why all of us don't deserve the same protections that he and his family get doesn't really make sense or hold water.
00:37:15.380And I think it's really just a money thing.
00:37:18.840But y'all might remember that Cruz also introduced legislation that would have allowed the White House to unilaterally exempt AI companies from nearly all federal regulation.
00:37:27.660And he was also behind that 10 year moratorium on any state level AI legislation.
00:37:33.380So I think he's just in the pocket of big tech. And I think for all of his posturing about protecting freedom, he consistently demonstrates a clear and flagrant lack of regard for a citizen's privacy.
00:37:47.140And I genuinely, this is like a genuine question. I wonder if he thinks that this level of privacy protections that he enjoys is not good in some way or that we all shouldn't have it. Would he give up those protections for himself and his family if he thinks that apparently nobody should have these? Like, is he special in some way? I genuinely do not understand what he is doing here other than just being completely in the pocket of big tech.
00:38:13.180yes he is special he's Ted Cruz of course he shouldn't give up those uh rights that only
00:38:19.220exist for him and his besties uh he's Ted Cruz that's different um yeah no but like I I think
00:38:27.560you're totally right like it's at this point it's like they're not even like pretending like this
00:38:35.200isn't the case it's like you're just you're yeah you're supporting nonsense ideas you're you're
00:38:41.700shutting down these things that are pretty universally like supported because you're like
00:38:48.080but but the people that pay me don't want that so i'm gonna yeah and it is the thing where it's
00:38:54.100like yeah no obviously like yeah like there there is a like registry of like sex offenders like
00:38:59.700there's all these things that exist through the police already through the government um but that
00:39:05.480doesn't matter because you can just throw out you can just say like oh but i'm worried about sex
00:39:10.400offenders as they've been doing for every issues lately that means nothing anymore because they say
00:39:17.220that again this is like this is the same argument they use for um why trans people shouldn't be
00:39:23.480allowed to do literally anything is they're like ah but what about sex offenders like at this point
00:39:31.620it's like i feel like we could have legislation on like if we went back in time and we were just
00:39:38.580now in 2025 introducing legislation about seatbelts like there would be some way that
00:39:43.900the republicans would be like but what about the sex offenders yeah it would be like but what if
00:39:49.200there was a bad guy who used a seatbelt and and he got into a crash and he was protected0.93
00:39:54.340but what if a transgender um antifa tried seatbelt and i don't like it's it's just nonsense anymore0.81
00:40:05.140they just throw out worries and people eat it up or they just know that they're not going to face0.51
00:40:09.980consequences. So it's so true. Like I, I guess I'm just in a silly goofy mood because it's been a
00:40:15.860week. I'm just going all over the place. Y'all stay with me. I mean, I saw, I saw the interview
00:40:23.100that like Donald Trump getting on a plane and I forget what he's asked about something and he
00:40:28.080just says, well, well, you know, the Democrats just, they just want transgender for everybody.
00:40:32.080and I just wish somebody would ask a follow-up like what does what does that mean what do you
00:40:37.620what are you what does that mean I wish okay that makes so much sense because I feel like I keep
00:40:42.040seeing like tweets and like memes and stuff that are using the like everything is computer
00:40:46.780transgender for everybody and I'm like I thought the transgender and I will say everything is0.59
00:40:51.440computer that is a banger that's a banger I do say that a lot everything is computer and you know
00:40:57.480transgender for everybody that is the platform that i'm running on i would put that on a shirt
00:41:03.580i also say everything is computer you ever listen to a sophie song you ever listen to a sophie song
00:41:09.740everything is computer and transgender for everybody let's go brad summer part three
00:41:18.760because truly it's so funny because truly he'll say things where you it's so wrong it kind of
00:41:24.320loops around to being right you know what i mean like really funny lines oh my god do you know the
00:41:31.300guy who does like trump as a gay man but arnold palmer was all man and i say that in all due
00:41:38.500respect to women and i love women but this guy this guy this is a guy that was all man it starts
00:41:49.400as a joke but it's like trump really was born to be a gay man like he would have been so good on
00:41:54.700drag race and that is the biggest tragedy of this whole situation is like this is why i'm like kind
00:42:02.060of like in my heart i there is something like i i do like george santos like i do sort of i'm like0.94
00:42:08.020you know what like you're all right like i i don't know i like this is probably the best case scenario
00:42:13.700oh my gosh wait where he's behind bars no or living his entire living is true like i was like
00:42:20.460have you ever seen the video where a reporter is like sir sir what do you think about drag
00:42:27.560race this season and he stops in his tracks that is the happiest i've ever seen that man
00:42:32.680that is the happiest i've ever seen that man that i again another like i look at george
00:42:39.060santos i'm like this is what trump was supposed to be like if he had kept in where like i was
00:42:44.140like the the clip of him on z-way like he's so like the z-way interview is so funny all the cameos i
00:42:50.620like this should have been what trump was and it should have stopped there this should have been
00:42:56.980what ted cruz was ted cruz doesn't have the charisma actually i take that back i take that
00:43:02.080back ted cruz there was no hope but trump this is what no there's an image of santos when he was
00:43:07.440being i think arraigned or sentenced where it's just a black and white image of him wearing
00:43:13.300sunglasses and it's just cameras all around him and i'm like girl that's an album cover
00:43:17.840i think that is a hot cover i think like that is like the most like group chat used image that i've
00:43:25.020had like on like like whenever somebody's like got my hair cut like uh on the image like i don't
00:43:31.460know it is that is like how i feel when i leave the house i'm like that's i don't know that yeah
00:43:37.680if these people weren't spreading so much misery and fascism and torment they would be in another
00:43:45.280yeah in another universe we're watching them all scheme on housewives or drag race or something if
00:43:50.120they weren't responsible for so much pain and misery we could sort of be like low-key rooting
00:43:55.200for them in another in another capacity or arena you know trump would have killed it on housewives
00:44:00.520like yeah yeah um we did an episode with um ashley ray of the podcast tv i say all about how
00:44:09.160trump if you are a scholar of reality tv you sort of get trump because he definitely he came from
00:44:15.380the reality tv world and he knows how to be a reality tv show villain and watching a lot of
00:44:19.820reality tv helps us understand how he moves right now exactly exactly and i know this is something
00:44:27.100we disagree on i'm a reality tv hater but i'm sorry i'm sorry but well i still like you no no
00:44:35.800no i know i just i listen i have many friends that are um very into reality tv it's just nothing i
00:44:43.300don't i don't get it i like drag race i want i did watch i did watch the secret wives the secret
00:44:48.720lives of more of the lives that was fun but like i i feel like i like the i watched the first season
00:44:53.940then I got sick of it. I don't know. It's not for me. And to me, I'm like, and that demonstrates
00:44:57.340everything that's wrong with American culture and how we count where we are today. Oh, it absolutely
00:45:01.460does. But also it is like how you understand what the fuck is happening today, because this is0.97
00:45:06.580unfortunately the reality we are living in. So it is the reality we are living in. Well, speaking of0.97
00:45:13.500occupying different realities, I found this fascinating study from Emily Van Dunn, a professor
00:45:20.440of communications at the university of illinois urbana champaign who did this in oh you're from
00:45:26.300out there right i am i did not go to ui but i am from illinois my dad's a ui alum half of my high
00:45:34.700school went to uiuc so shout out shout out shout out to uiuc my dad loves to bring up that they
00:45:41.840invented the internet i don't know how accurate that is but he loves to say that uiuc invented
00:45:47.220the internet uh yes well thank you uiuc i probably wouldn't have this podcast if not if not for their
00:45:53.520invention actually sorry my bad it was the first internet browser that was created at uh uiuc but
00:46:02.980um it's i i guess the internet as a whole it was a bit more complicated but um but yeah i i still
00:46:10.200still, same applies. We would not have this show without UIUC. So thank you.
00:46:17.400Emily Van Dunn from UIUC did this fascinating research that says that misinformation is not
00:46:24.220just ruining our democracy, ruining our information ecosystem. It's also ending marriages. So she did
00:46:30.220these in-depth interviews with 28 people who had recently ended a relationship with a partner
00:46:35.100whose political ideology did not match their own. So there are people who, when they got into
00:46:39.300relationships. It's like, oh, well, I'm a Democrat. My partner is much more left leaning or I'm a
00:46:45.260moderate Republican. My partner is much more conservative. So like people who already from
00:46:49.540the beginning did not share the same political ideology. A lot of the couples involved in these
00:46:54.320interviews said that their media choices were directly responsible for the political differences
00:46:59.060that ultimately caused the relationships to end. Their stories offer fresh insight at the corrosive
00:47:05.580effects of the tendinaciousness being fueled by disinformation, misinformation, and partisan
00:47:10.140online communities in the public sphere can be just as divisive in private. Van Dunn said, quote,
00:47:16.900it is important to note that these relationships were not deemed for failure because of differing
00:47:20.740political beliefs. They failed, at least in part, because those differing beliefs were associated
00:47:25.840with different realities that disrupted a shared identity and shared reality with their partner,
00:47:31.220which I find so fascinating. And so something I have definitely felt when dealing with people
00:47:37.140who have been deeply, deeply taken in by just incorrect information and that there's nothing
00:47:42.520you can do to convince them otherwise, they create their own little world around them that
00:47:47.440is just very difficult to penetrate. And so how could you then share a world with somebody that
00:47:54.160you're intending to be in a romantic relationship with as a romantic partner if they are already in
00:47:59.240their own little isolated world that you cannot penetrate. So it completely kind of makes sense
00:48:04.540to me. This really bore out in a lot of the conversations. Van Dunn said that the study
00:48:09.520participants' experiences went beyond differing interpretations of political facts because
00:48:14.860false information created an alternative fictional reality that isolated their partners from each
00:48:20.560other ideologically and relationally, straining their bonds until the relationships failed.
00:48:26.040She said that her findings, published in the Journal of New Media and Society, draw on the theory of shared reality, shedding light on the potential implications for intimate relationships when online mis- and disinformation and radicalization disrupt individuals' expectations that their partners will recognize and validate their respective understandings of the world.
00:48:44.720So that really, I think, is the key, that we kind of expect our romantic partners to live in a shared reality with us.
00:48:53.320And it seems to become an issue from her research when a partner is confronted with whether or not they want to validate what they understand to be truth and reality versus validating with their partner.
00:49:05.080And yeah, it just is really interesting to think that people's online rabbit holes can and have torn relationships apart.
00:49:13.840Yeah, I really do not find that surprising. I've dated people before with different political beliefs than me. I think most people have. But even in that, there's like, maybe this isn't the best term to use, but there's like a margin of error almost of like what you're willing to like tolerate that like somebody you don't agree on.
00:49:37.760you know like it could be like okay we we don't agree on like these things but there's only like
00:49:42.440so much that you can put up with until it's like you're just like too far apart and maybe this is
00:49:49.100just a sign of how polarized we are right now that that like gap between what people yeah like
00:49:57.040the realities kind of are like we're living in completely different realities so there's more
00:50:01.380things that we disagree about um I mean this also makes me think of like back a year ago now I mean
00:50:08.340that's crazy that this was a year ago but a year ago and there were these campaign ads that were
00:50:14.680like encouraging women to vote for Kamala Harris uh even if like their partners were voting for
00:50:19.840Trump yeah it was mainly yeah it was mainly aimed at women uh and I mean I think the fact that this
00:50:26.840was something this was a reality that like the harris campaign understood to an extent and was
00:50:32.120like trying to campaign on shows how polarized like in terms of gender we are especially
00:50:42.120i mean this also like makes me think if there was this article i read a while ago about how like
00:50:46.660gen z women were dating older men a lot more and like it wasn't oh because of the usual reasons
00:50:54.440you know people would be in age gap relationships but it was literally because a lot of gen z men
00:51:00.940have become and like this is generalizing obviously but like a lot of them have gone
00:51:05.260so far right and have gotten like red pilled or whatever like gone to the whole like android hate
00:51:12.200spiral and so it's like there's literally no good options of people at our age so sure yeah
00:51:19.760we'll look to the like older generation that maybe has like a little bit more progressive beliefs
00:51:23.600um I thought that was really interesting I mean I don't this isn't really like something I have
00:51:27.760to deal with in my dating life but like like honestly I talk to like my straight girlfriends
00:51:31.820and I'm like the dating scene seems really bleak like I totally get that like there clearly is a
00:51:38.160gender gap right now and I mean mainly among heterosexual people but not always and yeah
00:51:44.840I can't imagine what it's like right now like being a straight woman trying to date yeah many
00:51:52.260years ago i i like casually dated someone and this was someone who i thought i was like i have met
00:52:00.400the person i'm going to marry like this is this person is going like i'm but our first date i'm
00:52:05.440like i'm planning my wedding uh and we i had to break it off when i found out that he deeply
00:52:11.620believed a very specific and incorrect conspiracy theory and it was something that i was like i
00:52:17.480don't think i'm going to be able to like drop this basically this guy was gorgeous probably the
00:52:24.800most attractive person i've ever seen in my life in real life you need to know that just just yeah
00:52:29.020just put it out there whatever you're imagining gorgeous so he'd been living in new york city but
00:52:34.340had just moved to dc because he was a restaurateur he was opening a new restaurant in dc that he was
00:52:39.980going to be the owner and head chef of he was french he had a great accent he was hilarious
00:52:45.820You know, the cliche in movies of a girl who goes on one or two good dates and that is going home and essentially planning her wedding.
00:58:40.420Okay, so lastly, Joey, I know we are of different age eras, but if you will allow me a little bit of nostalgia.
00:58:48.940If you are listening to this and you are my age or older, this sound you probably associate with the internet, specifically booting up America Online back in the day.
00:59:08.420Even hearing a little taste of it, I feel like I get chills because it reminds me of being up in the computer room getting online.
00:59:16.580Did you have this? Does this mean anything to you?
00:59:20.280I did. I did. For the record, I do remember AOL.
00:59:26.360I was born in 99, so I had a little bit of the early internet era.
00:59:32.240I did my first, you know, introduction to computers was my family's desktop.
00:59:37.700I didn't have an iPhone until I was 15.
00:59:40.960uh so i did get in trouble in elementary school for using our family printer to print out a bunch
00:59:48.300of like pictures from like star wars movies that i wanted to put on my wall and they were my parents
00:59:52.420were like you used up like all of our ink what the hell and i was like one thing in color would
00:59:56.780be like well that's the whole canister yeah i was like i need this giant picture of patome
01:00:02.300from star wars and then somehow it took me until i was like 15 to realize that i was gay but it's
01:00:10.240whatever and that's another story um but yes I I I do remember although I feel I do definitely I
01:00:18.420will say like it was a shorter period of my life than I think for a lot of our listeners and you
01:00:24.460and um I say that with no disrespect again I love the millennials I love the millennials y'all did0.97
01:00:31.080so much for us thank you none taken we don't get down with any of the like millennial gen z right
01:00:38.560we're not about the divide and exactly we're all love on this podcast i was 14 years old reading
01:00:44.320buttest feed being like so true i also can't afford a house we're the same uh that's the thing0.93
01:00:51.320it's like why are we pitted none of us can afford shit why are we pitting each other against each0.63
01:00:55.920other none of us yeah we're all broke we're all trading around the same 20 dollars literally0.98
01:01:01.120why should we be at odds with each other we shouldn't be the world is on fire we love lady
01:01:07.080gaga what else is there i don't know what else is there to talk about everything is computer0.77
01:01:13.900what else is there to talk about everything is computer everybody's transgender let's go0.55
01:01:19.180everything is computer transgender for everybody everybody but aol yes yes okay so i talked about
01:01:28.600this on the podcast and i just gotta give it up to aol that noise when i was growing up it was
01:01:35.200possibility. It was like the portal to the new world. You know, Joey, but for people who were
01:01:40.560younger, it was like how you got online, like getting online meant that it tied up your family's
01:01:47.800phone line. I have very clear, I can hear my mom, God rest her soul. I can hear the pitch,
01:01:54.180the specific pitch of her voice being like, get off the damn phone. Get off the damn computer.1.00
01:01:59.840I'm trying to make a call. Like this was, this was before, this was before everything was computer.1.00
01:02:04.160so yeah but everything everything was not yet computer and it could either be on the computer
01:02:09.840or your mom could be making phone calls for her literal life or death job as a medical doctor
01:02:16.080it was one of the others exactly i was like why is my dad mad at me because he needs to use the
01:02:21.020printer for um his like work and i'm like but again i need to pick this picture of yeah an
01:02:28.400anakin from star wars i'm finding out that the truth is out there at an x files chat room i don't
01:02:35.100care that you have like actual adult work to do and then i'm tying up the phone lines preventing
01:02:39.760you from doing it but so yeah it just really was something special and believe it or not i was
01:02:45.680shocked to hear this a handful of households in the united states were still using that exact same
01:02:51.020technology dial-up as recently as last week census data from 2023 showed that about 163 000
01:02:57.940households were still relying on dial-up for their internet. That's just over a tenth of a percent of
01:03:03.780all internet subscribers nationwide. However, this week, America Online, AOL, confirmed it was
01:03:10.920officially pulling the plug on its dial-up service for good. So like, if you did not live through it,
01:03:17.960I cannot express to you how much AOL was synonymous with the internet back in the day,
01:03:23.820And it was very much was what the internet was for an entire generation and has shaped what the internet has become for all of us ever since.
01:03:31.980If you've seen that movie, You've Got Mail, it's called that because when you would get on America Online, the little guy would say, you've got mail.
01:03:39.640That was literally what AOL told you when you would sign in.
01:03:50.820when you would go to blockbuster where they would give you your change they would give you an aol
01:03:54.680cd you would order a pizza and it would be like like glued to the top of the box sorry what's
01:03:59.200blockbuster okay joey i know so also i know i know even if you didn't live through some of this i
01:04:09.960know that you're like i'm a nostalgia uh i was about to say i watched stranger things of course
01:04:14.660i know but they actually in stranger things they worked at family video and there was there was a
01:04:19.860family video like a couple blocks from me growing up that actually one of my best friends from uh
01:04:24.400high school worked out for a little bit because it was it was still open into the 2010s uh for us
01:04:30.660but yes i i am family video is the one closest to me but i i miss that that was a we were a family
01:04:38.140video family and there was also a hollywood video sometimes yeah i think i want to say we had an
01:04:43.760issue like we like we didn't rewind the videos or something we had some sort of problem with them
01:04:48.320but yeah those were the days those are the days i netflix just isn't the same as um there's like
01:04:56.260like you you're you don't have like the smell you can't buy like shitty junior mints or like
01:05:02.780like like a movie theater candy when you're checking out it's not the same you know i
01:05:07.960honestly so i we're both movie people i honestly associate why that is for me with going to video
01:05:15.960stores because you would just get the title and then a printed up like paragraph synopsis.
01:05:21.560Yeah. And you would have to decide whether or not you wanted to watch a movie based on that. And
01:05:25.620you had to I took a chance on a lot of movies I probably would never have seen at a very young
01:05:30.200age because I was like, oh, this paragraph makes it seem interesting. So, yeah, I just I wanted to
01:05:35.200sort of pour one out for AOL. I don't think I'd be making this podcast if not for spending
01:05:40.700hours and hours and hours in the computer room using AOL. I read that at one point,
01:05:47.040half of all of the CDs manufactured worldwide were AOL signup discs. Like that is massive.
01:05:54.480And, you know, for me, and I think for probably a lot of us, it was not just technology. It was
01:05:59.300a lifeline. AOL chat rooms were genuinely how I figured out so much about myself. I saw
01:06:06.220reflections of myself. I saw worlds that I had never seen before, lifestyles I had never seen
01:06:12.060before. It's how I figured out I was queer, like living in a small Southern town. That glowing0.94
01:06:18.680screen was like possibility to me. And I say this to say that we were alluding to this earlier,
01:06:25.360but it is so important that the generation behind us gets to have those same experiences. I'm not
01:06:30.480going to say those, I'm not going to say that those experiences were all good because I was
01:06:33.300certainly in some online spaces I certainly had no business in,
01:06:37.740asking ASL in some rooms that I probably should not have been in.
01:06:42.080However, it truly was a lifeline to the life that I have now,
01:06:47.280which is fucking awesome and would not exist without the internet.
01:06:50.440And it is so important that all youth, trans youth, queer youth,0.92
01:06:54.620cis youth, straight youth, that they all have places like this
01:06:58.500where they can figure out who they are.0.54
01:06:59.780If we allow for the powers that be to regulate the internet in such a way that it erases queerness and transness, I don't think that we're going to be creating an internet landscape that allows for people to just figure out who they are. And we should. And it was a beautiful thing for me.
01:07:16.760I don't want to sound too sentimental but with AOL fun setting its dial-up connection it just
01:07:23.680was a moment where I really remembered that magic I want to make sure that that magic is available
01:07:29.160for those that are coming up now and behind us totally yeah totally agree I think like
01:07:36.900and I mean again I'm coming up with somebody who I was at the tail end of AOL kind of being
01:07:44.840a big thing so that wasn't really like the internet when I was experiencing the internet
01:07:50.840but at the same time like I totally resonate with what you're saying I think like I was kind of at
01:07:56.360the tail end of the like the internet being like the wild west and just kind of being like yeah
01:08:01.700I look back and there's a lot of things where I'm like cool I probably should not have been
01:08:06.140exposed to that at a young age I probably should have whatever there was I was a tumblr kid I was
01:08:11.020you know online being like no don't kill yourself to people that were probably like 10 years older0.82
01:08:19.340than me yeah that wasn't great that being said a lot of shit about my life now like it gave me
01:08:27.960space to like find out who I was and it gave me space to like explore and like see that there was
01:08:33.580like another world out there and I think that is really important and I think like like you Bridget
01:08:39.380that is kind of why i like i i think the internet was like a huge part of my life growing up i think
01:08:45.100it like it continues to be a huge part of my life i think that is something that on the one hand i
01:08:49.900agree like yeah i want it to be safer and healthier for the next generation but i want them to have
01:08:56.200access to that i want them to have access to being able to like explore new ideas new possibilities
01:09:02.520and unfortunately it's kind of like there's no real solution or like easy option to be like and
01:09:08.380we need to do that because it's like no we shouldn't also be like the state of the internet
01:09:12.580right now is is so depressing and so it makes me so sad for the next generation to be like this is
01:09:19.980what it's gonna be so yeah no i i agree this is it is sad to see that and also it's like one of
01:09:25.760those things where it's like the way like looking at how fast technology moves not to be too
01:09:31.180nostalgic about this like honestly yes there were still problems and it's kind of like it feels like
01:09:35.860it's like the end of the internet feeling hopeful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's exact. You really
01:09:41.340articulated that well. And yeah, I really, you know, we've talked to Anil Dash, an OG internet
01:09:48.840entrepreneur who was like, oh, let's not get caught up in false nostalgia. But so I don't
01:09:53.060want to do that. But it does feel like we're at the end of that era where the internet felt like
01:10:00.300promise and not just a slog that was being hijacked and weaponized and sold and codified.
01:10:10.100And I just, we can't let them take the internet. I think that we deserve an internet landscape and
01:10:15.040a tech landscape that feels like connection and community. And it feels like hope, you know,
01:10:19.920community, the show, and also community, small C community that feels like hope. And I guess I
01:10:26.100always just feel heartened by the fact that there are more people that want that and and are will
01:10:32.440there are more smart nerds who want to do the work of recapturing that and rebuilding that
01:10:38.100then there are people who just want to sell it back to us and commodify it like i was going to
01:10:43.120talk about this on the news roundup but you you live in new york there was a whole thing where
01:10:47.560an ai companion service had taken out oh my god massive ads on the subway i walk by these all the
01:10:55.240time it is so weird it is so weird it's the friend ones they're all called like friend too
01:11:01.000it is so like I I will I'd say too like on just like my most people I follow obviously are in
01:11:07.320people I know in New York and like I've seen so many people sharing photos of like the graffitied
01:11:11.840over signs too and that that does again like that gives me hope the fact that people are pushing
01:11:17.520back I think like I think again just like with the AI stuff something that on the one hand yes
01:11:24.440i am somebody who going back to the story like i grew up in the internet i think the internet is
01:11:28.800great and it's helpful i think specifically seeing like the pushback with ai has given me
01:11:33.360hope i think specifically like i've had a lot of moments with the um especially stuff with people
01:11:39.000like having like ai like boyfriends and girlfriends or yeah like the ai friend thing where i was like
01:11:44.500am i like do i have to try and look at this in a different perspective or like no me and i'm like
01:12:15.960writing things like stop exploiting our loneliness.
01:12:19.380And I think, you know, I think there's a wisdom there. And I think it really does show that people want humanity. People want connection. People want community. People want to be in community with each other.
01:12:32.760these tech, this handful of white tech oligarchs trying to exploit that and sell it back to us
01:12:42.240in the form of AI, people are saying no. The backlash to that AI actor that recently popped
01:12:49.280up, people don't, people, I don't know how much louder people need to be saying no until the
01:12:54.660powers that be get it. But people are saying no very loudly. You don't stand Tilly Norwood?
01:12:59.880what do you mean um also way to know her name off the top of your head i will be so real the only
01:13:07.660reason i do know her name is because i've seen so many like actors that i follow like making0.50
01:13:11.700parodies being like i okay first of all i love meg soldier so fucking funny she's hilarious she
01:13:17.540made like a really funny run recently where she was like pretending to be like another ai thing1.00
01:13:21.420and she was like actually like it was like um this is why selena was a fucking bitch she's0.99
01:13:24.860terrible i don't know she always fucking kills it there was one the actress who plays i'm blanking1.00
01:13:28.980her name but she's the actors who plays Nessa and Wicked in the Wicked movie oh yeah yeah she1.00
01:13:33.060made one where she was like guys like I need to be honest and she like she was like she like pushed
01:13:36.640me out of my wheelchair like she's just like horrible like I just I do think it's really
01:13:41.440funny seeing all these actors now like being like you know what sure if you're gonna hit us with
01:13:45.580this ridiculousness then I heard uh Tilly Norwood saying the n-word actually yeah like you should
01:13:53.620hear her views on palestine she was actually uh she was actually you know the like army hammer0.98
01:14:02.860cannibalism scandal she was like also involved with that like she was like sitting right next
01:14:07.680to him like truly i don't know this is what i'm saying ai couldn't do this ai couldn't come up
01:14:13.860with that level of like intertextual response you know we we got to protect humanity and i think
01:14:21.960i think that's really i i think there are genuinely there are more people who are interested
01:14:28.660in that than there are people who are interested in making a quick buck off of it you know the
01:14:33.000sora thing watching all these tech bros convince themselves that videos that sora came up with were
01:14:39.440visionary and it's like if this is the kind of content you want you are in the minority i am
01:14:45.240sorry people want good people want good stories people want humanity people want connection
01:14:51.260people want real human experience and if you're someone who is satisfied with slop that says more
01:14:56.880about you than it does about our society i feel for real i think that the friend thing specifically
01:15:02.180and like that and the like people that are have ai partners that that it always does bring me back
01:15:10.760to the social network where like they're i like the whole kind of point of that movie at the end0.97
01:15:15.960it's like it's this one like asshole loser who was unable to connect with people and he made it0.99
01:15:22.600the rest of our fucking problem um like that's always what I look to where I'm like it's people1.00
01:15:26.700like fucking Mark Zuckerberg which we've talked on the show before I fucking love Jesse Eisenberg0.99
01:15:33.220love him he's amazing he plays that role so fucking good oh he did a big one with that0.99
01:15:38.420yeah like i like he does such a good job just like like embodying the type of person that is0.60
01:15:46.600like and this is the future and we're gonna end like put it on the rest of y'all and it's like0.89
01:15:51.880it's up to us to say fuck no that is a you problem sorry i don't need an ai friend to0.97
01:15:59.040if i want to do something stupid i text one of my roommates and i'm like hey should i do this1.00
01:16:04.540And they're like, you go, bestie, live your life.0.97