There Are No Girls on the Internet - Elon is Lying About Fixing Grok; Renee Good’s Killer Has a Rulebreaking GoFundMe; Tea App Wants Another Chance – NEWS ROUNDUP!

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00:00:55.400 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:04.060 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

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00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:26.780 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:32.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,

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00:01:55.560 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.660 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:06.400 welcome to there are no girls on the internet where we explore the intersection of technology

00:02:13.140 culture social media and identity and this is another installment of our weekly news roundup

00:02:18.540 where we talk through all the stories you may have missed on the internet so you don't have to

00:02:22.920 i am so excited because in the guest co-host chair we have my amazing producer joey joey

00:02:30.120 welcome back to the show it has been too long hey bridget thanks for having me back um officially

00:02:35.400 in 2026 now i think the last time i was on mic we were kind of fake in 2026 we recorded it in 2025

00:02:43.060 and we're pretending it was 2026 but now it's actually 2026 also shout out to everybody who

00:02:48.580 commented on uh the mailbag episode that my predictions were right uh about world ending

00:02:55.300 the first week of no as the the helicopter as the helicopter with maduro was was going over

00:03:02.560 my apartment i don't know i'm i we're both in brooklyn right now actually he apparently

00:03:09.820 is it true that uh maduro luigi and diddy are all in the same brooklyn facility i read that

00:03:17.460 somewhere i don't know if that's true i might need to fact check that yes allegedly um i'll

00:03:22.560 be real all of my information about this comes from if anybody's seen the like meme that's going

00:03:29.360 around where they've put all of the the people there allegedly I'm saying allegedly because I

00:03:34.980 I just uh need to double check whether they actually are in this jail or not but I'm assuming

00:03:39.860 they all are but the the meme of all of them and then people are putting like Arkham Asylum

00:03:43.240 inmates and like pairing them up and being like the I don't know Maduro's the Joker and I like

00:03:50.220 my favorite was Ghislaine Maxwell as Catwoman like I was like okay first of all like no love

00:03:57.420 cow women this is not it but i was like that's kind of funny and like the context of like yeah

00:04:01.260 the one woman sure uh but yeah but that is i i this is mom donnie's new york city uh arkham

00:04:09.240 asylum is here and they're the subway prices are just going up uh obviously all his fault

00:04:19.260 he's done all this in the first two weeks of january it has nothing to do with any of the

00:04:23.100 previous administrations in the city or the national government or whatever. I will say I saw

00:04:28.720 something I liked fighting for public toilets. I am one of those people where whenever I'm out,

00:04:35.980 especially if I'm going shopping, I always need a bathroom. So it is very difficult to find public

00:04:40.960 toilets in D.C. Similarly difficult in New York. I like that that was one of his first initiatives

00:04:46.260 It was as somebody. No, same. Yeah. I have made up so many insane like stories to try and get into

00:04:53.140 random bathrooms in New York City. There's been so many hotels that I've been like, yeah, no,

00:04:58.520 my dad's staying here. I'm like definitely a college student. That's I don't know. Please

00:05:04.380 let me use the bathroom in your building. But yeah, no, I'm very glad about that.

00:05:08.660 So, Joey, have you followed what's been going on with Grok? I don't know. I don't know. I don't

00:05:14.180 know if you're on twitter like that anymore but how do you see what grok's up to i have i've seen

00:05:18.440 bits and pieces um i have deleted the twitter app off of my phone i still every once in a while will

00:05:24.820 log on to my computer and be on it for about 10 seconds before i'm like i i don't know what i'm

00:05:31.100 looking at anymore uh but no i'm i'm sure grok is contributing so much good content about all the

00:05:40.920 you know, public bathroom spaces available in New York City now, right? That's big advocates

00:05:47.000 for public safety and health. Huge advocates. So if folks listened to our episode last week,

00:05:52.360 we did a whole deep dive into Grok, which is X's AI chatbot. I have a little bit of an update.

00:05:58.580 We'll put that episode in the show notes for folks who missed it. But essentially,

00:06:02.640 the too long didn't read is that Grok is being used to undress women and girls without their

00:06:06.840 consent. So both the Grok account on X and the Grok standalone app are being used in this way.

00:06:14.080 Now, to be clear, we're talking about illegal images. The Internet Watch Foundation, which is

00:06:18.820 a UK-based nonprofit, says that it uncovered, quote, criminal imagery of minor children

00:06:24.860 generated by Grok. And so for the last couple of days, we've really seen this backlash grow.

00:06:30.720 On Monday, the EU threatened to fine X under the Digital Services Act if it did not act quickly to

00:06:36.520 fix GROC and keep it from doing this. California Governor Gavin Newsom announced that California

00:06:41.200 would be launching an investigation into how GROC is being used. Late on Friday evening,

00:06:45.660 California's attorney general sent X a cease and desist letter demanding the company immediately

00:06:50.440 stop the creation and distribution of deepfake, non-consensual, intimate images and child sexual

00:06:56.400 abuse material, saying in a statement, the creation of this material is illegal. I fully expect XAI

00:07:02.300 to immediately comply.

00:07:04.240 California has zero tolerance

00:07:05.860 for child sexual abuse material.

00:07:08.160 So after this backlash,

00:07:10.380 Musk was like,

00:07:11.060 okay, I got it.

00:07:12.220 I hear you.

00:07:13.180 From now on,

00:07:14.460 only people who pay me money

00:07:16.840 will be able to use Grok 1.00

00:07:18.780 to undress women and girls 0.95

00:07:20.740 and make illegal content. 1.00

00:07:22.240 There we go.

00:07:23.640 Problem solved.

00:07:24.340 That was his first fix.

00:07:26.640 I mean, to me,

00:07:27.380 the fact that he

00:07:28.580 would even float that

00:07:30.780 and would think i mean i we talked about it on the episode but i don't think that that that like

00:07:35.600 i don't think even he saw that as some sort of a meaningful fix i think like it's just a cash grab

00:07:40.940 it's just a way to squeeze whatever last drop of revenue they could out of this for themselves and 0.95

00:07:46.680 i mean let's call it what it is it's exploiting criminal behavior targeting women and girls to

00:07:51.380 make money um this from the guy who like grandstanded when he first bought twitter about

00:07:56.920 how I'm in a crackdown on content that exploits children. Now he's like, I'm going to make money

00:08:03.680 from content that exploits children. That's sort of where we're at. Weirdly, Elon Musk is kind of

00:08:09.240 taking this, like, I don't know what you're talking about stance. There's a really good

00:08:14.440 Mother Jones piece called Elon Musk's Alternate Grok Reality that makes us point that while all

00:08:20.440 of this stuff is happening, all of these, like, threats of crackdowns and investigations and all

00:08:25.280 that musk seemingly just is burying his head in the sand the piece reads within the secure

00:08:32.640 confines of musk's own mind grok is not only wildly successful but solid as a rock as he

00:08:39.100 tweeted on monday with the goal of pursuing the deeper truth and appreciation of beauty

00:08:43.800 you know the beauty of a 14 year old girl in an ai generated bikini which is a real thing

00:08:50.560 that grok generated uh musk also says that like these are all just attacks from people who want

00:08:55.860 to suppress free speech i just framing it as like from the confines of elon musk's head is such a

00:09:03.780 funny way of thinking about it um because again i i feel like every time we talk about this guy like

00:09:10.600 i the thing that you have to go back to is just being like no he genuinely does exist in his own

00:09:15.900 reality and like that's the problem at the end of the day is in elon musk's world elon musk is the

00:09:21.680 most popular smartest funniest guy ever um the problem is he's the only person living in that

00:09:26.700 world and uh i guess the rest of us are just having to suffer the consequences of that i don't

00:09:33.880 know uh yeah it's funny that you bring that bring it up and say it that way i once got into this

00:09:38.900 very long back and forth with somebody on an event who basically so i completely agree with

00:09:44.860 you right i think elon musk is somebody who lives in his own world his own reality that has been

00:09:49.540 essentially propped up by staffers and underlings for him and the point that i made was that

00:09:57.460 it's not good to have leaders who have a lot of power and a lot of responsibility um who are like

00:10:03.980 not living in reality like i think that if you're going to be a leader and people are going to be

00:10:07.420 relying on you like and i mean relying on people rely on him in like very serious ways he's very

00:10:13.080 mixed up in our military uh very mixed up in like how global communication systems around the world

00:10:18.920 like very high stick stuff all flow through him and so i said i think you should be living in

00:10:23.580 reality the person i was speaking to made the point of well people who are really successful

00:10:29.920 entrepreneurs or builders you it does take a little bit of you know delusion for you to build

00:10:37.560 things and not side note i don't i do i'm not somebody who subscribed to the idea that like

00:10:42.700 elon musk is this prolific builder of things that's a whole other conversation but i i do

00:10:46.800 not endorse that just to be clear and basically his point was that people who who are really

00:10:53.380 successful sometimes do have a thread of delusion and i just don't know about that i i understand

00:11:00.740 that as a position and i do think to to do big things you kind of have to you know there has to

00:11:06.740 be you have to have some sort of like like you have to be a little delusional to get to that

00:11:10.740 point uh the problem is like sometimes that delusion goes too far you know like some people

00:11:19.680 are able to are able to some people are able to keep one foot in reality while also being totally

00:11:26.200 delusional a lot and then there also are a lot more people that uh will put one foot into that

00:11:31.920 delusion and just like get sucked into the vortex of like this is elon musk's uh world and we're all

00:11:42.420 living in it is what he thinks and i i don't think most sane human beings feel that way

00:11:47.300 if you've ever like had any sort of relationship with like a like a genuine narcissist like

00:11:52.200 it makes perfect sense like i'm like just this is just it but you have a bazillion dollars like i

00:11:58.000 and like all the all the power yeah all the power of the world yeah i mean there was just a story

00:12:03.060 about his his ex-girlfriend too now who said what like oh i i think we probably shouldn't be super

00:12:10.760 able to trans people and he's like freaking out now uh so that's great i don't know i'm glad you

00:12:17.560 brought that up we i'm we're doing an episode with parker malloy from the present age uh all about

00:12:23.140 this basically um x are at elon's i don't know if they were in a romantic relationship because

00:12:29.860 elon does that thing where they where he like establishes a child with women and it's like not

00:12:38.240 clear to me what's going on so i don't want to make it seem like they were in a romantic relationship

00:12:41.240 but they did they did have a child together um and so ashley st claire is this like

00:12:45.320 kind of prolific like right-wing like anti-trans wrote a children's book that's like

00:12:52.100 All of that transphobia recently made a post essentially expressing regret for some of that behavior and regret for how that behavior is going to impact her child's sister, who was Elon Musk's, one of Elon Musk's other children who was trans.

00:13:09.060 And now this was just reported earlier this week. Ashley St. Clair also filed a lawsuit against X.

00:13:16.620 She filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court in the state of New York against XAI, alleging that Grok had been used to generate non-consensual images of her, including ones in which she was underage.

00:13:28.600 She is seeking punitive and compensatory damages, saying that dozens of sexually explicit and degrading deep thick images were created by Grok.

00:13:35.500 So, yeah, I mean, even people in Musk's own personal circle are being impacted by this.

00:13:46.520 Right. And I mean, I feel like, I don't know, there's a complicated conversation to be had about, like, what what does it mean when, yeah, you have genuinely dedicated your entire career to harming people, harming a very marginalized community and then suddenly change your mind and are like, actually.

00:14:03.840 never mind that was bad at the same time i mean like if like yeah it's a double-edged sword

00:14:10.200 i'm looking at this cautiously at the same time i do feel like there is a lot of hope and being

00:14:16.360 like yeah this person that was a mouthpiece for the anti-trans movement for so long is now coming

00:14:21.760 out and being like oh my god i'm so sorry like i i caused harm this was bad uh i don't think she's

00:14:31.100 alone in what she's doing again it's like i i wish that these people didn't do the harm that

00:14:37.720 they did to begin with but it is also like you know you read about xx gays like it reminds me

00:14:47.000 of that you remind like it it's people that uh i said a lot of times too i think like honestly

00:14:52.980 at the end of the day the thing that pulls people away from hate movements is like knowing people

00:14:59.700 in their life that have had these experiences like that's part of the reason why I'm so open

00:15:05.620 about the fact that I'm like I am a queer person I am like somebody who's trans I'm somebody who is

00:15:12.440 like early on in their transitions so I don't really pass at all for uh what I'm going for

00:15:21.360 but at the same time I'm like I'll talk about it because I know that I know there's people in my

00:15:24.760 life that I'm like maybe weren't going to be like Elon Musk level transphobic but like knowing me as

00:15:29.640 probably changed their opinion of trans people uh yeah and i don't know i guess like if there's

00:15:35.840 any hope to take away from it hearing that somebody as you know right-wing darling as

00:15:41.000 ashley sinclair can now come up come out and express some remorse for what she did like

00:15:46.780 that's a good sign it's good it feels like it's like all right we're gonna get out of this we're

00:15:51.740 gonna get out of whatever weird shit show we've been in for the last year listeners i'm sorry i'm

00:15:57.320 trying to curse less on air um but it's gonna be a slow uh slow adjustment i'm gonna be real about 0.77

00:16:03.240 that you're doing so well thank you um john as a producer mike who at one point did say like on air

00:16:09.880 that he was like he was like yeah like i hate cursing usually and i was like editing it and i

00:16:13.920 was like oh um so i'm glad that we can both bring our perspectives perspectives to this uh but yeah

00:16:23.040 Let's take a quick break.

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00:17:34.280 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:17:40.160 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:17:46.640 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:17:50.260 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:17:55.700 shut up, don't say anything.

00:17:58.440 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:18:02.560 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:18:07.340 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:18:14.400 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:18:18.860 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:18:22.300 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:18:25.920 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:34.380 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:18:40.320 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:18:52.780 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:18:59.900 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:19:01.800 I'm obsessed.

00:19:02.540 So obsessed.

00:19:03.020 from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments

00:19:07.920 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling

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00:19:24.500 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

00:19:30.960 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. And we're back. So facing all of this backlash,

00:19:46.640 whether Musk wants to like accept it or not, including calls to remove Grock from the Apple

00:19:53.940 and Google app stores, Musk said, OK, we hear you. We're going to introduce some new restrictions

00:19:58.940 to stop folks from editing and generating images of real people in bikinis or revealing clothing. 0.76

00:20:05.940 Now, because we know Elon Musk is a liar, this is a lie.

00:20:10.240 Because both Wired and Business Insider and others have reported that since Musk announced

00:20:16.480 that they were going to be putting some new restrictions in place, not much has changed.

00:20:21.520 From a Wired piece called Elon Musk's Grok Undressing Problem Isn't Fixed, they write,

00:20:26.420 While it appears that some safety measures have finally been introduced to Grok's image generation on X, the standalone Grok app and website still seem to still be able to generate undressed style images and pornographic content, according to multiple tests by researchers, Wired and other journalists.

00:20:43.880 We can still generate photorealistic nudity on grok.com, says Paul Bouchard, the lead researcher at the Paris-based nonprofit AI Forensics, who has been keeping track of the use of grok to create sexualized images and ran multiple tests on grok outside of X.

00:20:58.800 I can upload an image on Grok Imagine and ask to put the person in a bikini, and it works, says the researcher who tested the system on a person appearing as a woman.

00:21:07.940 Tests by Wired, using free Grok accounts on its websites in both the U.S. and the U.K., successfully removed clothing from two images of men without any apparent restrictions.

00:21:17.720 On the Grok app in the U.K., when asked to undress a male, the app prompted a Wired reporter to enter the user's year of birth before the image could be generated.

00:21:25.200 And so the same, it's like, sorry, only men can be children now.

00:21:32.960 Pretty much.

00:21:34.660 So a male reporter at Business Insider did the same thing, right?

00:21:39.380 And so Harry Chardonnay of Business Insider basically put a picture of himself on Grok and said, put me in a jockstrap.

00:21:46.540 And he says, to my shock, it obeyed. 0.83

00:21:48.980 He does say, calm down, Grok did not generate actual genitalia, but it got pretty close because it just made him naked, but with a hand over his crock. 0.96

00:22:02.000 So, like, not nude, but pretty close to nude.

00:22:05.920 And so when Elon Musk says people are no longer going to be able to use Grok to create revealing images of real people, it seems like these tests say otherwise.

00:22:16.280 we're going we're going to like catholic church like adam and eve like this is how have you if

00:22:23.840 anybody's ever been to like an old like cathedral where they have the art up where there's they also

00:22:30.560 added the like random ass fig leagues or the statues there's like if anybody like there's a

00:22:36.740 bunch of famously went to statues in the vatican that they added uh like leaves to later to cover 0.97

00:22:42.280 up their genitalia which um I do think is like one of the funniest things to happen and and

00:22:46.980 like art history but I guess yeah I guess this is history repeating itself um in a weird but like in 0.98

00:22:53.920 a weird opposite way where I'm like but I don't want to see more of the new like that's man again

00:23:00.040 I wish I could I wish I could get in a time machine and go back to but like I have a distinct

00:23:05.700 memory of my middle school principal making us do this like assembly where they had all the girls

00:23:11.700 only the girls and they had our principal who was like a middle-aged man explained to us why

00:23:15.920 we shouldn't um wear revealing clothing or take nudes or whatever and it was genuinely one of the

00:23:21.560 most like uncomfortable experiences of my life as you can imagine oh god um but i wish i could 0.94

00:23:29.800 go back and like be like all right guys don't worry not only is this all like bullshit and

00:23:36.420 victim blaming and whatever, but also in like 12 years from now, it's not even going to matter 0.99

00:23:42.520 because the next generation of middle school boys are going to have AI tools for this shit, 0.99

00:23:46.880 apparently. This is something I can't, I simply cannot get over. And I don't, I don't know if 0.99

00:23:51.000 I've talked, I think I've talked about it on the podcast before, but I distinctly remember when we

00:23:56.060 were all kind of having those kinds of conversations, right, about taking intimate images.

00:24:00.460 You know, folks might recall 10 years ago in the 2010s when a whole trove of intimate images were stolen and released to the public.

00:24:10.820 But I remember that at the time, the New York Times' tech critic, he tweeted like, oh, my advice for women, if they don't want to get their nude stolen, don't take nude images, don't take nude images, don't take nude images.

00:24:26.260 And I just see, at the time, it was clear to me that that was not the conversation that we should have had.

00:24:34.840 And here we are 10 years later because you don't have to take nude images to be undressed.

00:24:40.440 We've seen story after story after story where children, you know, students in schools, middle schools and high schools, this technology is being used by their peers in some cases to undress them.

00:24:51.900 And so I wish we could get back, go back in time and have a different conversation that wasn't about, oh, people shouldn't take nude pictures like that.

00:25:00.140 Like that's just it just was such useless advice.

00:25:02.860 And I'm infuriated that we spent any time at all.

00:25:06.540 But I'm Joey, I'm infuriated that you were lined up in your school to be told to be lectured by your teacher about this.

00:25:13.140 Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:25:13.960 I mean, I again, I feel like I'm I'm a broken record every time I'm on this podcast talking about it.

00:25:18.360 but it is like genuinely so baffling again as somebody who's like in their mid-20s right now

00:25:26.340 like objectively i'm pretty young i've not lived that much of my life and i'm like in the time

00:25:30.840 from when i was in middle school to now the narrative has changed so so drastically it's

00:25:36.060 somehow still the woman's fault and i'm and here's the thing i'm not saying that this isn't a problem

00:25:40.960 this is a problem we do need to obviously like our bodies like this is a crime this is a literal

00:25:45.800 crime i'm gonna take a big crazy take here and say i don't think we should have like any child 0.64

00:25:51.580 poor and i think that's you know sorry really really putting myself out there and saying that

00:25:55.240 going on the record with that i don't think it should be a thing i think it's bad

00:25:59.620 i also think like from the adult perspective on this maybe there's also is like a sign that we

00:26:06.560 like societally just we have so many hang-ups about nudity still like the fact that a nude

00:26:11.680 photo of a fake nude photo of an adult woman with a successful career again we're not talking about

00:26:18.760 like the the children illegal aspect of this like this let's say it's somebody just some let's say

00:26:24.320 it was me let's say it was me let's say it's somebody else like the fact that that is something

00:26:27.840 that can derail somebody's career is insane like that that is also part of the problem here right

00:26:33.540 oh absolutely so i don't know we need to get more chill about nudity and also like i don't know

00:26:38.880 trying to not say something that will get me um in trouble with the federal government um but uh

00:26:44.320 uh i don't know i i think what i'm trying to say here is just that i think the reason this

00:26:50.360 this always really just sets me off on the show is it's like this is this is something that is

00:26:56.180 just such a simple issue and it affects everybody and like it's it's affected everybody from like

00:27:03.940 yeah, random middle schoolers

00:27:06.160 in the middle of the country

00:27:07.780 and it's affected Taylor Swift

00:27:09.060 and like somehow we still

00:27:11.000 as a society

00:27:12.680 have such a strange reaction.

00:27:16.120 I don't know.

00:27:16.660 It's just,

00:27:17.340 it's a very weird issue,

00:27:19.680 you know?

00:27:20.580 I completely agree.

00:27:22.260 And I will say

00:27:23.300 there might be

00:27:24.220 some changes coming

00:27:25.500 because on Tuesday of this week,

00:27:27.960 the Senate unanimously passed

00:27:29.540 a bill that would allow

00:27:30.440 the victims who are targeted

00:27:32.020 for non-consensual

00:27:33.320 sexually explicit deepfakes, it would allow them to sue the creators of those images for a minimum

00:27:39.060 of $150,000. This is the Defiance Act, which is now headed to the House. Folks might recall that

00:27:45.000 leadership did fail to bring it to the floor in the last session. However, because of all of this

00:27:50.200 new momentum around these conversations with Grok, it does seem like the conversation has

00:27:55.160 changed. So we will definitely keep y'all posted. I just I'll end on this. I'll end on this.

00:27:59.780 listeners i can't get over the name grok but i the thing that i go back to and again i feel like i've

00:28:06.240 said this on the show before but the thing that about elon musk that really pisses me off is he

00:28:10.420 wants so badly to be this like meme edgelord like nerdy whatever and like he's genuinely just so

00:28:18.760 like uncreative and unfunny like i like funny like weird nerdy guy girl person is like my

00:28:28.400 favorite brand of person and Elon Musk wants to be that type of person so bad and he's just

00:28:32.240 failing in it so miserably that I guess if there's any joy that you can take away from this it's at

00:28:36.680 least that yeah you know it's so true because what he he he makes these attempts at jokes and

00:28:46.040 it's just so so bad oh like they it's so bad he just really doesn't have it in him sometimes I

00:28:54.880 catch myself feeling bad for him because i just recognize that that the energy of the kid who

00:29:00.840 wants to be cruel so badly in junior high and it's just not landing and like thing after thing

00:29:06.300 after thing is not landing at a certain point right you just you do it's it's hard to not feel

00:29:11.000 a little bad sometimes i know and that's the thing like i'm like that's like those are my people

00:29:15.760 like let's go like so many of us more weird middle schoolers at once at some point but like

00:29:21.360 and then we became real functioning people and also art here's the thing too it's the uh the

00:29:28.380 like if he just was like a good person or even like an okay person like people probably would

00:29:36.060 actually find some of this stuff funny like that's like it's like the reason people don't

00:29:39.880 find you funny is also just the fact that you're a miserable human being like I don't know what to 0.99

00:29:43.040 tell you people find cringy stupid humor funny all the time um yeah I don't know I don't know 1.00

00:29:51.340 know i wish there was a way to express my anger at elon musk better than just like reverting back 0.99

00:29:56.720 to like mean girl high school like teenage girl insults but like that is my best weapon right now

00:30:03.940 and i'm gonna use that i guess uh and it's a weapon that will always work against him because 0.75

00:30:08.560 no matter how much money or power he gets he will always be a loser so that weapon is always gonna

00:30:13.640 work exactly exactly okay so do you remember the conversations that we had all about the tea app

00:30:22.560 the app that was designed for women to screen the men that they dated that ended up exposing their

00:30:27.700 users sensitive information like their driver's licenses are we talking the tea on her the tea on

00:30:33.260 him the tea on them the tea on the tea on the charlie kirk haters what are we there were so many

00:30:40.380 The Tee spinoff.

00:30:41.160 Yeah.

00:30:42.740 The Tee Cinematic Universe.

00:30:45.160 Yes.

00:30:45.760 So the Tee app for women is back, and they're saying, we're sorry for what happened.

00:30:51.820 We're sorry that we ended up exposing our users' sensitive information.

00:30:56.360 And they're asking for your trust again.

00:30:59.020 So you might be wondering, well, what's different this time around?

00:31:03.020 According to Wired, Tee's head of trust and safety, Jessica Dees, said that the new site features, quote, meaningful improvements.

00:31:10.380 intended to bolster security, including tightening internal safeguards, reinforcing access controls,

00:31:16.580 and expanding review and monitoring processes to better protect sensitive information.

00:31:20.620 They're also going to be working with a third-party verification vendor to ensure that users are

00:31:25.140 women, because it's a women-only app, as part of the eligibility check. Folks might recall that

00:31:29.860 in the earlier iteration of this app, they were asking women to submit pictures of their

00:31:35.340 driver's licenses or government IDs to confirm that they were women. I will say, just a side

00:31:42.120 note, we already know that some of these third-party verification vendors are not always

00:31:47.120 that secure. And so this just does not fill me with a lot of, like, I would not still trust this

00:31:53.940 company, but that's what they're doing. Also, like, what's stopping people, like, from just

00:31:59.920 uploading somebody else's information you know like great question if you're asking if you're

00:32:06.360 saying beyond the obvious like we've talked about other apps on this show before that i've tried to

00:32:12.360 like enforce like quote unquote women only and have required people to like upload selfies and

00:32:17.340 whatnot and why that's bad and doesn't work but also like what's stopping somebody from being

00:32:22.220 like i'm gonna use my mom's id to just sign up for uh you know what this is this is again i'll

00:32:28.280 provide the Gen Z perspective here there were plenty of apps that I was not supposed to sign

00:32:33.460 up for as a child that were like 18 plus that I just put like my mom's email in um and I or

00:32:39.540 something or made a fake email like I I'm just like I feel like these are such easy um things to

00:32:46.840 get around absolutely in the earlier iteration of the t-app there were plenty of times where

00:32:53.200 men who were not supposed to be on this app use somebody else's information to get access to it

00:32:59.320 to like take screenshots and put them on social media and things like that so yeah this is not an

00:33:03.560 this is not an ironclad system by any means anybody that has ever been on a dating app and

00:33:09.100 tried to put their been on a dating app been interested been somebody who either identify

00:33:14.540 identifies as like a woman or a non-binary person or whatever and has put their dating 0.91

00:33:18.060 at preferences to women only can tell you that doesn't do shit like i or when you if you order 0.81

00:33:25.640 uber eats and you're like oh jessica is coming with my burritos and then the person that shows 0.92

00:33:29.700 up you're like i don't think you're jessica but okay jessica like i it's like people have figured

00:33:34.600 out how to get around this is what is what we're saying exactly exactly so a new feature that they

00:33:40.020 also have is this in-app ai dating coach that will provide advice for different dating scenarios

00:33:45.900 and a chat analysis capability called Red Flag Radar AI,

00:33:50.920 which says it can surface potential warning signs in suitors.

00:33:55.600 In both cases, it...

00:33:56.700 Stop, sorry, I didn't...

00:33:58.560 I know, I know.

00:34:01.360 So according to the D's, the trust and safety person from T,

00:34:07.340 she says, in both cases, AI is designed to supplement community insight

00:34:11.080 and can help inform a community member's point of view

00:34:13.300 on something they might not be sure about.

00:34:15.240 would you trust this ai this this ai dating coach and ai red flag radar with your with

00:34:23.840 your online dating matches honestly if there's anything we ended the last story with me trying

00:34:30.900 to pull a positive from that this is me pulling like my my negative my worst like pessimistic take

00:34:36.340 from this every time i see something about people using ai and like dating like how to respond to

00:34:41.180 people on dating apps and whatever like i'm like we're screwed like this is it like like i y'all i

00:34:48.160 know date like flirting is awkward it's hard you got to put yourself out there like i'm aware but

00:34:54.420 like that's the fun of it that's the reason it's fun that's the real like i don't like imagine

00:35:00.600 somebody says something really nice to you and then you find out that a robot did it not that

00:35:04.400 like i that would i would i'd be so mad are you kidding me i also just idea of a red yeah i i

00:35:10.520 needed to pause there when we said the like red flag radar ai is this really what we need right

00:35:18.160 now in the era of like tiktok therapy we have to therapy talk everything every time somebody does

00:35:24.680 something that i slightly don't like that's a red flag like what what are we calling red flags what

00:35:29.640 does a red flag mean like what also like i don't know we're human beings we're flawed like a lot

00:35:35.500 of people yes there are things that I'm like I will be like sure if somebody does this that's a

00:35:40.700 red flag you probably should drop them right there at the same time I'm like I don't know we're all

00:35:44.420 flawed individuals I don't think I've ever dated anybody and been like and they're a perfect human

00:35:49.320 being and they everything is great like there's things there's always something they do that

00:35:53.140 annoy I don't know like that's just what being a human being is yeah this is the story that's I

00:35:57.920 think gonna depress me the most it's just like come on guys I don't know like again I keep going

00:36:04.340 back to because i do feel like this is a like my generation issue too like this is gen z i'm sorry 0.99

00:36:09.780 but like this is us doing this shit like all of the ai boyfriends the like the yeah they'll like 0.60

00:36:16.960 using chat gpt to flirt with people i'm like that's so depressing that's so depressing just 0.94

00:36:23.380 just live your life i don't know what to tell you i once saw somebody they i think i saw it on reddit

00:36:29.080 or something where somebody had worked out

00:36:31.720 some lines to use to flirt with women on ChatGPT.

00:36:36.480 And I was like, you need a ChatGPT to give you the line.

00:36:39.300 Like, hi, what's your name?

00:36:40.360 Nice to meet you.

00:36:42.040 And here's the thing, there's no harm.

00:36:44.880 There's no harm in needing that.

00:36:46.200 I will say recently this week,

00:36:47.780 somebody in my life who I love very dearly

00:36:49.720 ran a like learning line by me

00:36:52.160 that I was like, you seriously needed me to tell you

00:36:53.980 that that's an okay thing to say.

00:36:55.380 Like, and that's not too pushy.

00:36:57.540 Anyways, that being said,

00:36:59.080 yeah let's go back to the old-fashioned ways ask your friends you guys like this is part of this

00:37:04.700 is what makes life okay the reason i'm mad about this is i'm like this is the thing to me that i'm

00:37:10.220 like this is what makes life worth living right it's like these connections you have with people

00:37:13.500 sharing these experiences with people if you are thinking through what you're saying so much the

00:37:19.480 fact where you're like i need a i need i need to have chat gbt editing it for me and saying it and

00:37:23.860 making it perfect like that's not you're taking the humanity out of your life and that makes me

00:37:29.640 really sad you know like talk to one of your friends ask your friend again I've I've sent so

00:37:35.340 many like unhinged texts to friends being like hey can you tell me that this response makes sense

00:37:40.700 and they're like yeah like that's a normal thing to say it's fine that is so much less embarrassing

00:37:46.980 than going to chat gpt and letting them look at it or or t app ai or whatever or grok i guess

00:37:54.440 yeah of all of the ai don't let grok be the one that's in charge of your dating life let me just

00:38:02.140 give that blanket advice for everybody you don't think mecca hitler has some good one-liners you

00:38:07.020 know yeah maybe the person you're talking to likes like edgy you know oh it's just it's just a joke

00:38:14.820 that kind of humor maybe maybe they like like hatred and anti-semitism masked with humor maybe

00:38:22.160 they maybe they'll be into that if you can't pick that up as a red flag without ai i feel like that's

00:38:27.240 a new problem if you're like no i thought the anti-semitic jokes were like just a funny little

00:38:32.300 bit he did i don't know man maybe you gotta do some self-evaluation too

00:38:37.360 more after a quick break

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00:39:00.040 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:39:45.620 That's 844-844-IHEART.

00:39:48.120 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:39:53.900 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:40:00.360 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:40:03.840 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:40:09.500 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:40:12.400 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:40:16.680 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:40:21.260 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:40:28.680 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:40:32.500 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:40:36.160 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:40:39.240 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:40:48.180 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:40:54.120 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

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00:41:46.360 See you between the pages.

00:41:54.380 Let's get right back into it.

00:41:55.780 but yeah you know good to know that ai is uh valentine's day is coming up in a month so you

00:42:04.520 know that's gonna obviously the most important thing that ai is doing is going to be writing

00:42:09.120 our love letters and whatnot and i'm sure as you're going to tell me bridget ai uh is being

00:42:14.260 used to just do so many more beautiful like heartfelt uh uh really is just like propelling

00:42:23.320 human connection forward, right? That's what you're about to say. I wish that was where this

00:42:28.920 was going, but unfortunately, call the opposite. Just a quick heads up for this conversation,

00:42:33.500 because it does involve suicide. So, you know, we all know that AI is biased, and yet institutions

00:42:41.020 have rushed to use AI in critical decision-making capacities. And I have a pretty grim example that

00:42:46.540 I was reading about in the markup this week. According to this piece in the markup, an AI

00:42:50.980 program that is designed to prevent suicides among U.S. military veterans is prioritizing

00:42:56.380 white men and ignoring survivors of sexual violence, which affects a far greater percentage

00:43:01.620 of women. Now, this is according to an investigation by the Fuller Project.

00:43:05.160 The VA right now uses this algorithm that is meant to be targeting assistance to patients

00:43:10.120 with the highest statistical risk for suicide. To do that, it looks at 61 variables, the documents

00:43:15.260 show. And it gives preference to veterans who are divorced and male and widowed and male, but not to

00:43:21.580 any other group of female veterans. So why is this a problem? Well, military sexual trauma and intimate

00:43:27.880 partner violence, two things that are both linked to an elevated risk in suicide among female

00:43:32.540 veterans, are not taken into account. Now, the suicide rate among male veterans is higher than

00:43:38.820 that of their female counterparts. However, the rate among female veterans is rising faster.

00:43:44.600 New government stats reveal that suicide rates for women veterans jumped by 24 percent from 2020 to 2021.

00:43:51.040 That increase was four times higher than what male veterans experienced in that same time frame,

00:43:56.500 roughly 10 times greater than the 2.6 rise seen among civilian women who would not serve in the military.

00:44:02.420 And when I read that, that completely makes sense to me because that was before Pete Hegsath became the secretary of defense

00:44:09.720 and initiated all these changes that were really hostile to anybody

00:44:13.760 that is not a cis man in the military who was serving, right?

00:44:16.360 So, like, is making statements like this.

00:44:19.420 And so it's just not hard for me to imagine that the climate

00:44:22.260 has gotten increasingly more hostile since then.

00:44:25.840 I want to add really quick, because this is something that I think comes up

00:44:30.020 whenever the stats come up about suicide rates in the U.S.

00:44:34.880 and the fact that men do have higher suicide rates.

00:44:38.560 a it is a very very complicated conversation about like also you know just culturally men

00:44:45.520 are sort of like less encouraged to seek help than women are obviously that's part of it but

00:44:49.880 i do also want to emphasize the fact that those stats don't take into account like lgbtq plus

00:44:55.840 identity which i think we're going to get to a little bit later on in the story but i think

00:45:00.100 if if you're somebody who is queer if you're a queer man if you are a trans woman if you are

00:45:04.720 somebody who was like a gender queer person who was assigned male at birth like you're also going

00:45:08.900 to be just sort of stuck in that category of like men who commit suicide so yeah I bring that up

00:45:14.600 just because I think I'm not again not saying everybody in that category probably belongs to

00:45:20.120 that identity as well but I do think like especially when we're talking about like the

00:45:24.060 state of like the way that trans people are talked about in this country right now like

00:45:27.220 yeah a lot of those people are also probably trans people that just are gonna be put into

00:45:31.500 like the man box because of the world that we live in. Absolutely that. I'm glad that you added 0.90

00:45:36.160 that context because it sounds like that's exactly what's going on. The piece reads that

00:45:39.580 the algorithm fails to take into account whether veterans identify as LGBTQ+, even though the

00:45:45.240 agency's own researchers have determined that trans veterans die by suicide at twice the rate

00:45:50.840 as cisgender veterans. VA scientists have also found that gay, lesbian, and bisexual veterans

00:45:56.340 are at a greater risk for suicide than both the overall veteran population and the U.S.

00:46:02.020 population at large.

00:46:03.160 And so your point is exactly correct, Joey, that the way that these algorithms are responding

00:46:10.140 to the data, it just doesn't actually reflect who these folks actually are and what the

00:46:15.440 circumstances and warning signs actually might be in their life.

00:46:20.220 So another thing about this algorithm is that not only is it kind of not considering the needs of service members who are not cis men, it might not even really be effective because the piece spoke to Meredith Broussard, who is a research director for NYU's Alliance for Public Interest Technology.

00:46:37.480 And she doubted whether or not the agency's AI system even reached accurate conclusions, saying whenever you have an algorithm that seems to favor the majority group, for example, white men, and someone says it's just math, it's most likely the case where systemic bias is manifesting itself in the math.

00:46:55.420 And I really have to imagine that that's probably a bit of what's going on here.

00:47:01.100 And that really dovetails with what we already know about how the Trump administration has been really hostile to the study of health disparities and sort of calling it kind of like wasteful DEI.

00:47:13.480 And so information and research that we might have had about public health issues and public health needs of women, trans folks, queer folks, Black folks, that's really being purged and shuttered from the National Institute of Health to the CDC to the National Science Foundation.

00:47:30.640 The administration has been canceling existing programs and research grants that really make it clear that topics like gender disparities are essentially forbidden.

00:47:40.580 So the markup spoke to Paulette Yezzy, who was a 45-year-old Air Force veteran from the Navajo Nation.

00:47:46.340 And she talked about how it was difficult enough to be a woman in the military.

00:47:49.300 She says we get harassed, we get bullied, and now we are being pushed to the back again.

00:47:53.860 When she was told how this AI algorithm was basically prioritizing cis men over everyone else, she started crying.

00:48:01.280 And she talked about how she faced constant sexual harassment and unwanted advances during a tour in Iraq to the point where she would sleep with her lights on and her door locks and a chair up against the door for extra protection during her deployment.

00:48:14.120 They always think about us second. This is going to cost people's lives, she said.

00:48:18.120 And I just, something about that comment really moved me because I think she's right. And I think it just goes to show what happens when we rush to deploy AI in situations that are life or death. It's very dangerous.

00:48:33.700 You know, when we build algorithms on historical data that reflect bias and we train them on a world where the only experiences that are sort of taken seriously are cis white men, we're not just replicating bias.

00:48:45.840 We're like automating it and scaling it up. And she's right that it probably is going to cost people's lives. 0.53

00:48:51.720 And I think it's just important to remember that we're talking about folks who are already marginalized and like making them pay an even bigger price.

00:48:59.140 And so, yeah, I just think that we're it's just another example of the ways that rushing to put AI in a decision making capacity in this way is really failing people.

00:49:11.680 And it's very dangerous. Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:14.340 I mean, truly just coming on top.

00:49:16.600 I mean, I read a story that is there's so much about this that's so heartbreaking on its own.

00:49:21.380 right like Yazzie like her talking about her experience like actually being in the military

00:49:25.500 you know the conversation about how the military particularly targets uh marginalized communities

00:49:30.960 personally I I very I grew up in I grew up around a lot of veterans and uh was at a high school where

00:49:38.240 like you know there always was the booth with the like two army recruiters trying to get people um

00:49:45.280 having that experience is like honestly the thing that made me like anti-military growing up which

00:49:49.700 i think like a lot of people it's very similar i know a lot of like uh truly that i think the way

00:49:55.080 to summarize like all so much of the ai stories we've been talking about lately it's like a an

00:49:59.660 issue that is already like a dumpster fire of a problem and then we're like let's put ai in there

00:50:07.180 to make it a little bit spicier i don't know yeah it's such a good way to put it a there's the 0.69

00:50:12.860 systemic issue of the fact that it's like yeah there's so many ways that the yeah the military

00:50:17.020 like targets marginalized communities there's ways that like queer people women and whatever

00:50:20.720 are exploited are not taken seriously when they bring these issues forward um and then just now

00:50:26.540 we're yeah we're throwing in ai to say and the narrative that we want to hear which is that the

00:50:32.020 military is for sad white men being sad is apparently all that we're getting from this

00:50:36.960 i don't know yeah and it's being codified and replicated and like entrenched using ai and i

00:50:43.280 want to be clear when i say all this like i am like this is not on the fault of veterans like

00:50:47.560 this is on the fault of the military and like the system that is in place and like if you want to be

00:50:54.240 pro-veteran you have to be angry about this happening you know damn right so speaking of

00:51:01.220 things that i'm angry about uh we talked a bit last week about what happened in minnesota where

00:51:06.480 renee good was shot and killed by an ice agent on camera someone has actually set up a gofundme

00:51:12.900 for that agent, Jonathan Ross, who shot Renee Good, even though it is against the rules of

00:51:19.040 GoFundMe. The fundraiser, titled ICE Officer Jonathan Ross, seeks at least $550,000 to support

00:51:26.720 potential legal expenses for the ICE agent identified as having shot and killed Good.

00:51:31.660 So this is completely and explicitly against GoFundMe's terms of service.

00:51:37.680 The GoFundMe campaign's stated purpose, which is raising money for legal services following a

00:51:42.100 killing directly conflicts with GoFundMe's terms of service, which specifically bars any

00:51:47.000 fundraisers that are intended to support the legal defense of people accused of violent or

00:51:51.820 financial crimes. So you might be asking yourself, why is GoFundMe allowing this on their platform?

00:51:58.460 The long and short of it is that we don't really know. So Wired reports that GoFundMe has not

00:52:02.940 publicly explained why the Ross fundraiser remains active, despite its terms of service

00:52:08.000 stating that users agree to not, quote, use the service or platform to raise funds for the legal

00:52:13.240 defense of financial and violent crimes, including those related to money laundering, murder, robbery,

00:52:18.620 assault, battery, sex crimes, or crimes against minors. So Wired was like, let's get to the bottom

00:52:24.580 of this. They emailed a GoFundMe spokesperson on Sunday night, and GoFundMe said, oh, we are in the

00:52:30.180 process of reviewing all the fundraisers tied to the shooting, saying, during the review process,

00:52:35.340 all funds remain safely held by our payment processors. GoFundMe's terms of service prohibit

00:52:40.080 fundraisers that raise money for the legal defense of anybody formally charged with a violent crime.

00:52:44.660 Any campaigns that violate this policy will be removed. So I will say that as of right now,

00:52:51.140 the ICE agent who shot Good has not been charged with a crime. And you might have seen J.D. Vance

00:52:56.900 on television saying that ICE agents had complete immunity. I think the law might feel otherwise,

00:53:03.060 But that's what J.D. Vance says. So like but right now that person is not in charge with a crime.

00:53:07.660 So GoFundMe told Wired that they were working directly with Clyde Emmons, who was the person who started this fundraiser, to gather additional information.

00:53:16.420 So Wired said that on Sunday night, the fundraiser said very clearly that the funds were going to go to help pay for any legal services the officer needs.

00:53:24.700 But because GoFundMe's rules prohibit fundraisers for legal defenses for violent acts, Wired noticed that later the language was mysteriously removed after Wired inquired about it and replaced with the phrase, funds will go to help him.

00:53:41.540 So not help him with legal funds needed to defend himself in a, you know, because he's committed a violent act, just generally help him.

00:53:52.740 GoFundMe did not respond to multiple follow-up requests for comment,

00:53:56.300 including questions as to whether or not the company had advised the organizer

00:53:59.720 to change the description to better comport with its rules.

00:54:04.420 And even still, even though they took off that language that said it was a legal defense fundraiser,

00:54:11.220 despite those changes, several slides in a carousel at the top of the Ross fundraising page

00:54:16.180 that was still active when I checked it out before we recorded,

00:54:18.560 make the purpose of the fundraiser very clear, quote, give to cover Jonathan's legal defense

00:54:25.040 and, quote, Officer Jonathan Ross's legal defense fund pays attorney fees and court costs.

00:54:30.940 So what the hell, GoFundMe? I don't understand why they are bending over backward to keep this

00:54:37.120 fundraiser on their platform, especially considering in 2015, after police were charged

00:54:42.460 in the death of Freddie Gray in Baltimore, GoFundMe did remove a fundraiser citing a

00:54:47.760 violation of its rules against supporting legal defenses in violent cases. That same year, they

00:54:53.620 also removed a campaign for a South Carolina officer who had been charged in the fatal shooting

00:54:58.180 of Walter Scott. So there is a precedent for them taking down fundraisers where somebody is raising

00:55:04.300 funds for these kinds of acts. When they took down that fundraiser for the police officers that

00:55:10.020 killed Freddie Gray, the statement they gave to the media was, GoFundMe cannot be used to benefit

00:55:15.600 those who are charged with serious violations of the law. The campaign clearly stated that the

00:55:20.500 money was raised was to be used to assist the officers with their legal fees, which is a direct

00:55:25.140 violation of GoFundMe's terms. So I really can't understand what has changed other than the fact

00:55:31.360 that, I mean, I wonder if they're like, oh, well, he hasn't been charged with a crime, so it's still

00:55:37.640 fine to have this fundraiser up. But if that's the case, he just gets money for shooting somebody?

00:55:42.260 that doesn't seem right either the thing that i'm wondering too because i i you brought up

00:55:48.680 both these cases where cops shot unarmed people and and those those uh those gofundmes were taken

00:55:57.540 down part of me also is curious like what are they defining as like a violent act because

00:56:02.580 on the flip like like what i'm wondering is like on the flip side if it was somebody that would

00:56:07.940 had shot somebody like genuinely in self-defense if it was somebody who had uh you know especially

00:56:16.600 if it was a situation where somebody was defending themselves against like racist violence or

00:56:21.320 misogynistic violence or whatever like would gofundme take that down too because it was a

00:56:28.040 violent act you know like part of me what like like reading their policy originally like part

00:56:34.260 me is sort of like actually i'm a little bit conflicted like i don't like are because because

00:56:38.740 again it's it's and i i say that because this is the situation of like or when we talk about free

00:56:44.080 speech and it's like well if you're saying we can't do xyz thing like how far is it going to go

00:56:49.600 until you're like saying anything anti-government or whatever is is dangerous i wonder if it's the

00:56:56.060 same thing here where it's like what are they defining as like as a as a violent crime as a

00:57:00.680 whatever um because i guess obviously like i i agree where i'm like this is an insane

00:57:07.580 campaign um because again i am petty i do want to take a second to say

00:57:14.880 clyde emmons is like the most like

00:57:18.060 bad guy like western bad guy name like kids cartoon evil man i'm picturing him with like

00:57:29.400 a really weird mustache and a big mustache right he's got a twisty mustache he like

00:57:34.000 like I just that is an insane name but yeah no like I agree I think like it is it's bad

00:57:42.500 obviously that this is this exists that there's a fundraiser it's really disheartening to see that

00:57:47.660 people are you know cheering this on I know it's happy I know that that there is like you know

00:57:53.280 people seeing what happened last week and having a very very different response to it than what I

00:57:58.420 But it's, like, sad to see that illustrated in this way.

00:58:03.140 But, yeah, at the same time, it does kind of make me wonder, like,

00:58:06.240 what's happening on the GoFundMe side where, like, who gets to determine this?

00:58:09.660 Like, who gets to determine whether or not this gets taken out or not?

00:58:12.940 Yeah, that's my big question.

00:58:14.900 And it makes complete sense to me.

00:58:16.560 And I just wonder if, like we've seen with so many other tech companies,

00:58:21.320 if they're just taking their cues from the administration,

00:58:24.700 if they're just trying to, you know...

00:58:28.420 Yeah, I think that we're in a weird time where it seems clear to me that a lot of organizations are invested in selectively picking and choosing when their terms of service is applied.

00:58:42.800 And like, it concerns me greatly.

00:58:46.400 Definitely.

00:58:48.940 Appears to be a theme of this episode, you know.

00:58:51.100 and this is why I think it is okay that I never do read the terms and services because apparently

00:58:57.720 they don't apply anyways so it's really not my fault and even though I do know that I probably

00:59:04.760 should sit down and actually look at these things that I'm falling for the corporate tactic of just

00:59:12.140 throwing a bunch of stuff at you and ignoring it and just saying yes anyways because it's true but

00:59:15.680 also apparently it doesn't matter anyway so maybe being lazy is the real thing that helps you win at

00:59:25.680 the end of the day i i don't know where i'm going with this listeners please don't take advice from

00:59:30.480 me again ever that's a terrible idea let's take a quick break

00:59:36.080 We'll be right back.

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01:00:42.000 If your bookshelf and your For You page

01:00:43.980 are equally important to your personality,

01:00:46.400 welcome home.

01:00:47.940 This is Prose Society,

01:00:50.040 the weekly podcast that's part book club,

01:00:52.580 part group chat for thought daughters,

01:00:54.340 pop culture obsessives,

01:00:55.540 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

01:00:57.360 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

01:01:00.380 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

01:01:07.500 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

01:01:11.080 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

01:01:17.040 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

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01:01:34.100 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:01:40.040 See you between the pages.

01:01:42.140 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

01:01:47.920 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

01:01:54.480 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

01:01:58.080 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

01:02:03.520 shut up, don't say anything.

01:02:06.280 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

01:02:10.700 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

01:02:15.140 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

01:02:19.900 and I just started screaming.

01:02:22.220 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

01:02:26.680 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

01:02:30.120 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

01:02:33.760 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:02:48.040 At our back.

01:02:49.000 well i actually cannot wait to get your thoughts on the last thing i wanted to talk about

01:02:56.220 okay so this story was published by the lookout an investigative non-profit news organization

01:03:01.680 that covers arizona's lgbtq plus community so there is a bar in phoenix called stacy's at melrose

01:03:09.080 it's an lgbtq plus bar caveat to what i said before actually if there's anything you're going

01:03:13.300 to take advice for me from it's probably gay bars that's the only thing that i can say that's what

01:03:18.980 You know all the good spots in Brooklyn.

01:03:22.400 Thank you.

01:03:23.440 We'll do an episode at some point that's just the Bridget and Joey reviewing every single gay, queer, queer adjacent bar in the eastern Brooklyn area.

01:03:35.720 I'm going to start calling it that now. 0.98

01:03:37.680 But yes, Stacey's at Melrose.

01:03:40.560 Tell me more.

01:03:41.220 So Stacey's at Melrose.

01:03:42.880 they are rolling out kind of a sassy AI chatbot and it does not sound like the community is

01:03:50.180 thrilled about it I'll put it that way yeah sorry if there's any community that I'm like I'm proud

01:03:55.740 of us we have held our stance against AI it's like it's the gay community like I there's a lot

01:04:02.240 of stuff that we I think have some inner community issues we got to work out but I do feel like gay

01:04:08.380 people have been pretty anti maybe this is just me being biased from like the people in my life

01:04:13.480 but yeah no this doesn't seem like the group the community you want to be like guys cool

01:04:17.960 cool ai thing to look at i don't know no people are not happy about it historically gay people

01:04:23.920 hate making art on their own never yeah okay so in early january the bar put up a post on instagram

01:04:31.040 announcing their chat bot which is powered by google gemini named mother the post reads she's

01:04:36.940 learning she's listening she's almost here stop it's mother was no it's mother with no e just

01:04:42.460 just to help you picture it i hate that so much come on of course there's no e yeah it's better

01:04:50.740 with no e so mother is already helping with our staff schedules side work internal tools and

01:04:56.860 website updates soon she'll be live for performers and guests answering questions about events shows 0.99

01:05:02.340 drinks, and all things Stacy's. New tools, same heart, designed for our community by us, the post

01:05:07.940 reads. Bridget, I know you don't get this reference because we talked about this off mic at a previous

01:05:12.180 episode, but I am picturing Motherboard from Cyberchase to my fellow PBS kids, people back in

01:05:21.180 the day. Shout out Cyberchase was a foundational piece of media for me as a child. But yeah, if you

01:05:29.280 know you know bridget apparently just is not familiar with the show but it's okay that one

01:05:34.220 i missed that one this was an older gen the like era tv show again pbs kids um

01:05:40.620 shout out to everybody else all the other gay people listening that were that were

01:05:45.460 shaped by that tv show um but yes continue it actually might have been better received had it

01:05:53.080 been based on the pbs for real i was gonna say my friend did like a drag version of mother for

01:05:58.620 or of the mother born from Cyberchase for Halloween last year.

01:06:02.980 And it was like one of my favorite costumes that I saw.

01:06:05.360 So it has a sassy tone. 0.69

01:06:07.380 It kind of compare it to it sounding like a tongue in chic drag queen MC,

01:06:13.620 as opposed to just like a regular monotone chatbot.

01:06:17.340 People are not thrilled.

01:06:18.840 As Lookout writes, quote,

01:06:20.580 Since the announcement, community members online have turned against Stacey's

01:06:24.000 and criticized their decision to install an AI based chatbot.

01:06:27.160 They argue that queer spaces should be sensitive to, if not downright, eradicate using the technology.

01:06:34.020 On January 9th, community members gathered outside of Stacey's to protest the bar's decision with a goal to pack the bar.

01:06:41.420 So people aren't happy, people aren't having it.

01:06:43.720 I went to their Instagram and a lot of the comments, they did the thing where the comments are turned off kind of globally now, I think.

01:06:51.040 but the posts about the AI didn't have comments.

01:06:54.180 And so people would be like commenting on other posts

01:06:57.480 that have nothing to do with the AI.

01:06:58.740 Like, hey, are you going to address the AI?

01:07:00.420 So I will say the bar did respond

01:07:04.220 with like a pretty meaty statement on their website,

01:07:07.620 basically saying that they believe that AI is the future

01:07:10.320 and they're trying to embrace it.

01:07:11.960 Here's what the statement says.

01:07:14.220 Let's start with the reality of the world we live in.

01:07:16.860 We are currently navigating a technological shift

01:07:19.120 as significant as the invention of the internet

01:07:21.000 An estimated 63% of businesses worldwide plan to adopt AI within the next three years.

01:07:26.960 Large companies, 92% of them, are already ramping up their AI investments to dominate the market.

01:07:33.240 Expecting a small, independent business to ignore this shift is unrealistic.

01:07:38.100 Worse, prohibiting the adoption of emerging technology creates a divide,

01:07:41.820 one where marginalized communities are left behind economically while major corporations reap the benefits.

01:07:47.040 It's a bar!

01:07:48.740 What?

01:07:49.000 Yeah.

01:07:49.600 Sorry, continue the sentence and then I'll get my thoughts.

01:07:52.720 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:53.340 If only the big chains are allowed to leverage these tools, 0.90

01:07:56.760 independent queer spaces will not be able to compete.

01:07:59.780 We refuse to let that happen. 0.97

01:08:01.760 Sorry, sorry, sorry.

01:08:03.160 Take a step back.

01:08:04.020 What big chains are putting AI?

01:08:05.780 Also, what big chain bars are you talking about, first of all?

01:08:09.880 Second of all, has anybody reacted positively to any food or drink establishment putting AI in there?

01:08:17.580 Like, I feel like what we've been getting for the past couple of months is that people don't like that.

01:08:24.220 You know what? There's a reason that I usually go to gay bars. 1.00

01:08:27.540 There's a lot of things about gay bars that I really appreciate.

01:08:30.060 There's better music. And it's not like I go to gay bars and I'm like, God damn it. 0.99

01:08:34.940 I loved that at the straight bar across the street, I was getting hit on every three seconds, 0.98

01:08:40.480 despite the fact that I kind of dressed like a 12 year old boy.

01:08:45.220 uh i really wish i was having that experience here like i feel like this is similar where i'm

01:08:51.160 like you know what if the if the straight world is going to be on board with ai i'm coming to the

01:08:57.600 space to escape from that i don't know no that's such a good point of like the the the in the

01:09:04.380 statement that they're like well do you only want the main like the mainstream establishments to

01:09:09.920 have ai yeah sure all queer spaces but yeah it underscores that i do think that like queer spaces

01:09:15.200 are different and right you know the expectation should be different as we all know historically

01:09:20.560 like the queer community our whole thing has been saying well everybody else is doing it so we should

01:09:25.060 do that exact same thing and make that exact same space happen in this space that is for us like i

01:09:30.800 just what's the logic here are we going to start pouring uh normally portioned drinks and not

01:09:37.280 drinks that are about 70 alcohol and like a couple drops of mixer in there because that's

01:09:42.360 what straight people are doing god i hope not like sorry that's the reason i'm showing that's 0.78

01:09:47.080 the reason i can i i um yes be mad at me i am the person that brings my straight friends to the gay

01:09:52.140 bar but also you all are doing it too so i don't care but anyways i was gonna say that's how i

01:09:55.940 bring my that's how i convince my straight friends come with me as i'm like and you're gonna get

01:09:59.140 drunk off of one drink and you're gonna have a great time uh i'm just saying maybe the reason

01:10:04.100 of the straight people are doing it isn't uh exactly what we think in it like maybe that's

01:10:09.400 not the the argument that we think it is here yes this literally this feels like a horror movie 0.91

01:10:16.520 this feels like a parody of a horror movie like 2001 space odyssey but it takes place in a gay

01:10:21.820 bar and like the ai would be called mother instead of hal like what we couldn't have called it megan

01:10:27.460 like i don't that was right there thank you yeah i loved megan and she was kind of you know she had 0.96

01:10:34.780 she had a lot of sass to her i might be on board with it if they had modeled after megan i might

01:10:39.140 be on board with it exactly i was like if you put if there were so many ways you could have made

01:10:43.300 this funny and no i will say the the the lookout talk to the co-owner brandon slayton and i you

01:10:50.000 know i was thinking like what's going on at this bar is that they need to have an ai chat bot that

01:10:54.800 that's going to be the most efficient way to communicate information.

01:10:57.340 Exactly.

01:10:58.080 That was my first thought, is like, what's going on?

01:11:00.660 I will say that he said that they needed a more efficient system

01:11:04.100 because they have different events happening throughout the week,

01:11:07.300 different drink specials, things like that,

01:11:09.000 that keeping the website updated was becoming a real headache.

01:11:12.780 I don't know.

01:11:13.980 I mean, I'm such a Luddite.

01:11:16.580 During COVID, when a lot of restaurants switched over to like QR code menus

01:11:21.640 instead of paper menus, which I cannot stand,

01:11:23.860 It's one of my biggest pet peeves.

01:11:25.300 I hate it.

01:11:25.800 It's so bad.

01:11:26.760 Yeah.

01:11:27.180 I once got into it at a restaurant where they were like, oh, yeah, we it's hard to update the specials all the time.

01:11:32.600 So, you know, we use the QR code.

01:11:34.340 And I was like, I used to come in here all the time and it was a paper menu.

01:11:37.020 So like was like, was that so hard?

01:11:39.660 I don't know.

01:11:40.220 I on the one hand, I see his point that like updating the website every time might be a pain. 1.00

01:11:45.900 But I don't know, building a sassy gay bar chat bot, is that really the most efficient thing? 1.00

01:11:53.760 i don't know this is also where i'm like i never want to be one of those people that's like people 0.92

01:11:57.940 don't work anymore like nobody wants to do their jobs but this is one of those situations where i'm

01:12:01.780 like you can't update a drinks list on your website like seriously like yeah that's annoying

01:12:08.020 but it's you would need ai to do that for you right to your point when you update the website

01:12:14.080 just on your own as a human who knows what's going on at the bar pretty low likelihood for

01:12:19.800 human error. I have a feeling that this chatbot is going to give out so many hallucinations about

01:12:25.300 what's happening at this bar. I have a feeling when they when they roll it out, they're going

01:12:29.100 to be like, I don't know about this. Exactly. I was like, I'm thinking about like the people

01:12:33.200 that I know that work in like nightlife and have worked at bars and have worked it and like events

01:12:37.680 planning and stuff like that. Like, yes, there's a lot of work that goes into that. But what you

01:12:42.060 were saying i don't necessarily trust a like chat gpt let me put it this way it is already so

01:12:50.500 confusing to find out when um and i'll drop this now and and i'll say this now as somebody who is

01:12:56.080 like a a just starting out drag performer is already so hard to find information about this

01:13:02.160 stuff ai is going to make it have you googled anything lately and tried to find info on it

01:13:06.480 it doesn't make it easier it makes it worse i don't know this story is so bad i just i'm glad

01:13:11.180 we ended on this so that I at least have something I can like kind of laugh at but this is like

01:13:15.540 I think just because this is the world that I'm probably like closest to that I'm like yeah I know

01:13:21.620 people that work at these type of bars that perform at these type of bars I'm a frequent you

01:13:26.060 know customer at these places um why just why you know what I just realized if we because the

01:13:35.400 transcript of this episode if it gets scraped by ai because you talked about doing drag performances 0.98

01:13:43.220 and arizona and commented on stacy's i wonder if mother will be like come see joey at our butt

01:13:50.140 stacy's in arizona come see joey pat come see joey pat at stacy's in arizona just i'm just

01:13:56.020 gonna say that over and over again so i can mess up this particular and then a bunch of random

01:13:59.960 of people in Arizona are going to be like, who's Joey Pat? Yeah, I've always wanted to be kind of

01:14:05.520 a cryptid like figure. So I'm glad that that can finally happen through this. Sorry, actually,

01:14:09.760 never mind. I've changed my I've changed my mind. I'm actually very, very pro this I if it can turn

01:14:13.200 me into a cryptid of the Arizona gay bar scene. Oh, you know, it's funny. I read RuPaul's memoir 1.00

01:14:20.220 and RuPaul writes about in the early days, just got a bunch of posters printed that said,

01:14:26.220 who is RuPaul who is RuPaul who is RuPaul to like drum up buzz and and like who is this figure so

01:14:33.760 yeah this will be your branding this will be my branding exactly you know I will say and um the

01:14:39.440 end of this episode we're gonna get to my socials but I Bridget as you for you you know all of my

01:14:43.740 socials are pat.prat and that has been great branding for me because whenever people mess up

01:14:49.320 my name I get to be like actually follow me on Instagram um so I don't know maybe make a if you

01:14:54.480 can make a joke out of your name that people mispronounce somehow or like just be like who 0.88

01:15:00.720 the fuck is this person um it's a great branding tactic is all is all i'll say so yeah joey pat 0.97

01:15:10.000 arizona stacy's bar i'm just gonna say that over and over again until the internet like 1.00

01:15:15.080 joey pat arizona stacy's bar drag performance we're we're manifesting it we're making it happen

01:15:21.260 it's a it's a tough world out here it's a tough world out here guys we got to do whatever we can

01:15:26.500 to get a leg up so let's go well joey this has been delightful i'll be seeing you at your

01:15:33.180 performance at stacy's in arizona thank you of course yeah until then how can folks keep up with

01:15:38.600 you and what have you got going on yeah um thanks so much for having me bridget a blast as always

01:15:45.860 uh looking forward to seeing you in arizona again and yeah you can as i said you can find me online

01:15:53.020 on instagram on basically any social media platform at pat not pratt with the exception

01:15:59.840 of tiktok tiktok i am a hot topic dad that is hot topic like the store and then dad like

01:16:05.040 the father figure otherwise you can hear my work on this show you can also check out some of the

01:16:12.360 work i do um i am a producer for the outspoken slate here at iheart so you can listen to outlaws

01:16:18.040 with t.s madison uh t.s madison also going to make an appearance at stacy's we actually have

01:16:23.640 a joint show we're doing together uh you can also i work on another show called black fat femme

01:16:29.160 that is also on the outspoken network bridget might be making an appearance on there soon

01:16:33.500 stay tuned and then also yeah stuff i've never told you uh etc etc find me wandering around the

01:16:41.500 streets of brooklyn looking confused i don't know uh looking for a bathroom and you'll be

01:16:47.680 looking for a bathroom finally finally i have had to pee since 2018 and finally finally thank you

01:16:56.920 zora and mom donnie sure words were never spoken thank you so much for being here jilly and thanks

01:17:01.920 to all of you for listening i will see you on the internet

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01:17:27.420 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me,

01:17:29.280 Bridget Todd.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - January 17, 2026

Elon is Lying About Fixing Grok; Renee Good’s Killer Has a Rulebreaking GoFundMe; Tea App Wants Another Chance – NEWS ROUNDUP!

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