00:00:49.980If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:00:55.400Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:04.060Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:10:18.980then how do you think he feels about himself on this show,
00:10:23.900performatively, talking about how much he loves it,
00:10:27.720Right. Like if he thinks the whole reason he did rivalry is successful is because it's pandering and it's checking inclusivity boxes and and he thinks that's bad.
00:10:38.660And then he himself is duplicitously saying how great it is.
00:10:44.560That's getting a little like twisted there.
00:10:48.300Let him know, Dr. Amato. Exactly right.
00:10:51.300Like, if heated rivalry is pandering to the, like, queer, progressive, to just check inclusivity boxes, then what the hell are you doing on your podcast?
00:11:10.060In fact, in the early days of the public reaction to heated rivalry, he was so incensed by the positive response to the show that he bemoaned the gushing response was, quote, making blue haired Twitter happy.
00:11:23.100So these are the same people that he is essentially cashing in from by attracting to his hockey podcast by talking about how much he likes this show.
00:11:32.900So it really is. I mean, if this is how if you if you have such disdain for these people, why would you want them? Why would you be trying to be in community with them in this way? You know what I mean?
00:11:43.640yeah it's like pretty puzzling i mean maybe they feel like they stumbled backwards into
00:11:51.260a way to get a bunch of downloads and make a bunch of money i guess like is this the equivalent of
00:11:59.660how you are always threatening to sell out and like go maga and i'm sure you would make a fortune
00:12:09.080you know if you got up on the stage of cpac and like denounced everyone that you've ever cared
00:12:15.780about uh they would eat that up right you can go on tucker carlson or maybe an actual show that
00:12:22.020like has advertisers is this the the right wing equivalent of that oh i don't know about that
00:12:30.980i think that he doesn't like this show but wants money and acclaim so we'll say whatever
00:12:39.220okay that's probably right but i but i see what i see your point though that like isn't it the
00:12:44.760same thing you know i've always said candace owens is the reason why i'm i'm obsessed with
00:12:49.560her is that she is my shadow self i i look at her and i see a sort of what if inverse funhouse0.91
00:12:55.600mirror of like things that could have been yeah but i guess you're right like these backwards hat
00:13:02.720wearing hockey players like no shade to backwards hat wearing hockey players but you know they're
00:13:07.040maybe i'm overthinking it here maybe they're just trying to get some engagements make some money
00:13:13.500i don't know you and i had a very long talk about this before we started recording i have i have
00:13:18.420so many thoughts my first question is just how did out because at the out sports article they go out
00:13:24.780other way to explicitly say several times including in the title we have the texts how did
00:13:29.840they get and they say this this person was sending texts to multiple recipients how did they get these
00:13:36.160texts i am so curious and this is a little bit of a nightmare scenario of mine what i think i mean
00:13:43.260i love it when it happens to somebody else but it's also the my nightmare of it happening to me
00:13:47.520when you're reading texts or communications from someone who clearly never thought they would be
00:13:54.520read by the public it's my favorite thing in the world but it's also the idea of the text that i
00:14:01.800send just to my friends when i don't think anybody else is going to read them it happened to taylor
00:14:07.360swift and blake lively this week too like i like it is my nightmare how do you think outsports got
00:14:13.860these texts i mean i have no clue but i have to assume that somebody who was receiving them
00:14:24.520didn't think what was happening was cool and forwarded them on to a reporter or it could be
00:14:29.760like a pete hagseth signal gate situation and they just inadvertently added the editor from their fat
00:14:36.840thumbs right like didn't mean to but that seems unlikely i feel like this was a deliberate
00:14:42.940communication to journalists i agree i will say kind of back to the point we were making earlier
00:15:20.320activism it all just kind of made me roll my eyes i was always sort of looking at that with a little
00:15:26.940bit of side eye and skepticism because it's a good show it's not for everybody if you watch like i was
00:15:34.140listening to um watch what crappens you know i love my boys on watch what crappens and one of0.83
00:15:39.260them and they're gay men and one of them was like that's not really for me you know i i i just hate
00:15:46.600this idea that straight men are saving the world by watching this very popular piece of
00:15:52.860entertainment media that everybody else is just watching. They're clocking in and taking one for
00:15:57.920the team and helping society. Everybody else is just voluntarily pleasure watching it. I just
00:16:01.900never liked that dynamic, I guess I'll say. There's been a lot of discourse about the show.
00:16:07.800I feel like so many people in my life are talking about it. I admit I haven't seen it.
00:16:14.000I feel a little culturally negligent that I haven't but it's it's interesting to see like such strong feelings that people have about a TV show that I haven't seen but everyone who tells me about it the main thing that they emphasize is that it's like horny and gay.
00:16:33.480yeah i mean but also it's like a it's like a good show yeah i mean i've only seen one episode so
00:16:39.800don't come for me but like yeah it's it's a good show we talked on the podcast about how
00:16:44.600it's a show that really rewards careful viewing that you can't really watch it and while you're
00:16:50.180on your phone and get the full the full scope of the thing which i think shows that it's a show
00:16:54.440that is a bit challenging and also trusts the viewer which i feel like in this day and age
00:16:59.660there's not a lot of media that trusts their audience so it is it is a good show i guess
00:17:04.720that's what i'm saying i don't think that straight men should be getting credit for like being agents
00:17:11.240of social change or something by watching a good show like watching good tv is is like its own
00:17:18.560reward i i just i don't like the precedent that sets up in and not just with this show in general
00:17:24.160Anytime that I feel like there's a whiff of something that is like, it is your cultural duty to watch this movie. I could tell you movies where I felt like the marketing campaign was a little bit like that. I reject that. I think that people should watch what they like. People should be culturally, you know, expanding their diets. But consuming media is not activism.
00:17:49.180I just like patently don't like the idea that we're conflating the two.
00:17:54.480Well, it's not activism, but commenting on media, it can you can get paid for that.
00:19:38.560Okay. We talked about this off mic. So there's some listeners who are like getting, who are like about to leave you mean comments. I've, so I don't know if they live in LA or New York. I've been to Soho House New York and I, I, fuck this guy for that comment, but I, I know what he's trying to say because I've been to Soho House New York and it is like, I mean, I'm not a member of Soho House, but I was a guest to somebody who was a member.
00:22:00.120They have, you know, events that if you remember, this is really outing me as a millennial, a recovering millennial girl boss.
00:22:08.660But I got a comped membership to the women's only social club, The Wing.
00:22:16.020And that was like, I don't know how you would describe it.
00:22:20.140It was like a co-working place where they had events at a bar, at a restaurant and showers and lockers.
00:22:28.960So basically, if you were a busy gal on the go, a girl boss, you could go there and blow out your hair with a good blow dryer and take a shower.
00:22:38.520If you went to the gym and had a meeting after, basically, they had one in D.C.0.98
00:22:44.220I quickly was like, I don't have the kind of life.
00:22:47.600The lifestyle that I have as a podcaster who very rarely leaves my apartment, I don't have the kind of life that warrants a membership to any kind of social club.
00:30:45.440for details and to check availability bell connection is everything run a business and
00:30:50.620not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts than ad supported
00:30:55.840streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster iheart's twice as large
00:31:01.080as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear your message
00:31:05.300plus only iheart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio think podcasting
00:31:10.620can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at
00:31:15.940iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held
00:31:23.900captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:31:30.140what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:31:35.780I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.
00:31:44.380Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:31:48.640I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:31:53.200I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:32:00.620They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:32:04.440But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:32:08.100They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:32:11.680Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:32:20.140If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:32:26.020This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,
00:32:32.240pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the
00:32:36.820same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,
00:32:42.240the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:32:45.660I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed.
00:32:49.240From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,
00:32:54.100nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling
00:33:00.240characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart
00:33:05.500pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much
00:33:10.260you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app
00:33:14.880apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages
00:33:19.640let's get right back into it okay so switching gears we have talked about this in the podcast
00:33:31.460before but the white house their social media is such a cluster of the worst most gruesome
00:33:39.100content that you've ever seen in your life it is truly ghoulish stuff i sort of stopped paying
00:33:44.760attention to it which i think is exactly what they want and i think it's the kind of thing that i
00:33:49.640In my opinion, even among their supporters, like even if you were a Trump supporter or like a Trump voter, the kinds of content they put out is I think you would have to be a real ghoul to want to see.
00:34:02.020Right. I remember they were putting out videos of like stacks of migrant men, all like it's just like stuff where it's like you would have to be a sicko to want to see this.0.87
00:34:11.820Yes, they are actively engaged in a campaign to desensitize Americans and make us all more cruel and indifferent to the suffering of others. They want to celebrate the suffering of others with a capital O.0.98
00:34:27.620Exactly. Exactly. And so that's why so much of this administration has been about creating content, you know, but and they create the content that plays with the worst and also the most stupid people on the Internet.
00:34:43.060I remember you and I talking about the video of I think it was Pete Hegseth and Sean Duffy doing chin ups at an airport. And it's like, what kind of what kind of person is like, yeah, this is what I want to see.0.92
00:34:55.500I mean, at least that was stupidest person.1.00
00:34:58.080At least that one was just stupid, right?1.00
00:35:00.020Like no one was having their life destroyed or their body injured.1.00
00:35:17.340And it's, you know, one of the reasons is now the White House is asking ICE to make their own content.
00:35:23.780And it's why when Renee Good was killed in Minneapolis, the officer that stopped her was also filming on his personal cell phone, right?
00:35:31.720And so, side note, do you remember in Chicago when ICE and federal agents used helicopters to break into an apartment building in the middle of the night?
00:35:39.140Were they zip-tied residents, including kids and elders?
00:35:45.560And it's a real testament to these insane times that we live in that that is an event that like came and went and it's not like a continuing national embarrassment.
00:36:02.140Yes. And based on reporting from ProPublica and PBS, none, zero, not a single of the 37 individuals arrested during that raid were charged with a federal crime, despite that operation initially being framed as this like big, high profile anti-terror action where they were going to like, you know, take down these high level big deal criminals.
00:36:28.360The detainees, who were primarily Venezuelan nationals, faced administrative immigration violations rather than any kind of criminal charges.
00:36:37.840What they ended up doing in that was just getting super cool footage of helicopters breaking into people's homes and windows at night that they put on official White House social media channels.
00:36:50.940So they basically just terrorized the entire community for a video shoot.
00:36:54.540They didn't get any high-profile, you know, big-deal terrorists or bad guys at all.
00:37:23.600So you might have heard that this woman, Nakima Levy Armstrong, who is an attorney and an organizer and the former president of the NAACP's Minneapolis branch, she was arrested during an action that disrupted church services in Minnesota.
00:37:37.880So she and protesters entered the city's church in St. Paul, and at this church, an ICE enforcement official serves as the pastor of this church. So to be clear, there was zero violence and zero property damage of any kind during this action. Literally, they just came into the church, said an anti-ICE slogan, and that was it.
00:38:15.000This is from the Minnesota Public Radio News.
00:38:17.560It was not immediately clear what charge she would face.
00:38:21.300Justice Department officials have said in recent days
00:38:23.100they were considering charging the protesters
00:38:25.020under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act.
00:38:28.660If you're wondering what that is or if it sounds familiar,
00:38:31.560That's the FAITH Act, and it prohibits physically obstructing or using the threat of force to intimidate or interfere with a person seeking reproductive health services or seeking to participate in a service at a house of worship.
00:38:44.420So basically, it's a policy that is really intended to allow folks to get to reproductive health services.
00:38:52.300And the administration is trying to be like, oh, maybe we can charge them under this act to say that they physically block people who were trying to participate in a church service.
00:39:00.840The people were already seated and participating in a church service, so I don't know.
00:39:05.180Again, I'm no lawyer, but that's what they're saying.0.99
00:39:07.940It's like the creativity of morons who think that they're really thinking outside of the box, and they're not.1.00
00:39:16.540They're just having stupid thoughts that don't make sense.1.00
00:39:20.760Initially, they tried to charge journalist Don Lemon, who was covering this protest, but ultimately those charges didn't stick.0.99
00:39:27.200a magistrate judge rejected federal prosecutor's bid to charge Don Lemon related to the church
00:39:32.780protest. So Lemon said that he was there as a journalist, not a protester. Like, I saw the
00:39:37.600footage that he took, and it's just like, very obviously, he was there as a journalist. He said,
00:39:43.060once the protest started in the church, we did an act of journalism, which was to report on it and
00:39:47.140talk to the people involved, including the pastor, members of the church, and members of the
00:39:51.240organization. That's it. That's called journalism, he said. So they arrested Nakima Levy-Armstrong
00:39:57.580and the White House published an AI-altered image of her on social media. According to The Guardian,
00:40:05.480the White House used AI to darken her skin and make it look like she was hysterically sobbing
00:40:12.260with like tears streaming down her face. We'll put the image in the show notes. In reality,
00:40:17.980during her arrest, she looks completely composed.
00:40:22.320The altering of the image on the official White House channel
00:40:25.320also just made her look worse than she actually looked.
00:41:37.340And I think that they had to know that the image of this Black woman composed and defiant while being arrested by federal agents for this very low-scale protest in a church, they had to know that the image of her looking defiant and composed was not going to play.
00:41:58.180So they were like, we have to we have to use A.I. to create this reality where, in fact, she looks terrified and disheveled and was sobbing because that's what's going to play with our base, especially because it's a black woman.0.52
00:42:10.140totally that's what they do they have no regard for truth or reality they think that they can just0.98
00:42:20.020create reality and push it on the rest of us and alter images say lies and especially if it's about0.86
00:42:30.060a black woman absolutely right it's so despicable it like boils my blood everything going on in
00:42:38.480minneapolis is so offensive to human dignity uh and like the sense of what it is to to be0.99
00:42:49.040an american it's really like pushing people's boundaries i think they're trying to they're
00:42:55.940trying to like push the limits of what they can get away with it's despicable i don't i don't
00:43:01.320even have a deeper point yeah and you know i'm really reminded i in my home i have so many like
00:43:09.100images around my home of all of the powerful and arresting images that we have from you know the
00:43:16.020civil rights movement the black arts movement all of that i had there's this one iconic image and
00:43:20.480i'll put it in the show notes of this woman gloria richardson who was the leader of the cambridge
00:43:25.380non-violent action committee and she's it's this image that folks have might have seen where
00:43:30.100she is really giving a heavy side eye to a national guardsman who was holding a rifle in
00:43:38.260her face and she's taking her hand and she's like physically pushing the rifle out of like out of
00:43:44.120her face and she looks so defiant right and the look that she's giving i can't really explain it0.82
00:43:53.100but if you're a black woman or you are around black women or you if you had a black mom or you
00:43:57.520It is a particular look that she is giving this National Guard member and that rifle that I've seen from my own mom a million times.
00:44:08.440I can't even really put it into words, but I know exactly what she is communicating via her look.
00:44:13.960And my question is, that image is arresting because she's using the gifts and the tools that we as Black women have as a tool of, in the face of being threatened with a gun, right?0.99
00:44:31.060It's like, you may have a gun in my face, but I'm a Black woman and I have a withering fucking stare and that's enough.0.99
00:44:37.760No one's going to remember the name of that National Guard member putting a gun on her face.0.99
00:44:41.180this image when you see it you'll be like oh iconic right so what i guess the point that i'm
00:44:46.120making is that i think this is the administration using the tools at their disposal which are of1.00
00:44:52.240course ai because they're lazy stupid morons who don't care about anything original and don't have1.00
00:44:56.640anything original to offer anybody they're using these tools to try to take away our like god-given1.00
00:45:04.420abilities to resist right we as black women one of the gifts that we have is the ability to
00:45:12.580you know keep it cute have composure look defiant look iconic even if we're being arrested like0.99
00:45:19.560this sister was being arrested right and so the fact that they are using such a lazy fucking0.99
00:45:24.580moron trick of make her look bad and disheveled and crying and scared when in fact the sister was0.98
00:45:31.180composed in the face of this arrest this federal arrest i think really says a lot i'm like what0.83
00:45:37.980what if like what if all of the iconic images of people throughout the years resisting
00:45:44.220somebody went in and and used ai to try to make them less defiant and less iconic and again i like
00:45:52.780i did something about this image they have nothing real to offer so they have to use0.97
00:46:31.400They were like, we can't have this be the official image of this woman, you know, eating us up, serving a face while she's getting arrested.0.99
00:46:40.280We need to use AI to make this image fit what our base is going to like.
00:46:45.880And it really, it just really says a lot to me.
00:47:50.240they know that most americans find what they're doing repugnant and so they have to use ai and
00:48:01.660fakery to create this illusion that people are actually afraid because people people are afraid
00:48:09.160but also like nakima armstrong people are standing up against this tyranny despite their fear right
00:48:18.340Like some things are more important than being afraid.
00:48:20.720Some things are more important than our own physical safety of the moment.
00:48:25.360A lot of things are more important than like getting arrested for a protest, you know, like it's not great, but whatever.
00:48:33.160I don't know her whole backstory, but like what I do know about her, I'm sure she's been through far worse than spending an evening or even overnight in a holding cell.
00:49:08.580When The Guardian asked the White House whether or not that image had been digitally altered, the White House responded by sending a post from X from Kaylin Doerr, the deputy communications director, that said,
00:49:20.400Yet again, to the people who feel the need to reflexively defend perpetrators of heinous crimes in our country, I share with you this message. Enforcement of the law will continue. The memes will continue. Thank you for your attention on this matter.
00:49:33.600So, you know, you're a serious administration when you say the memes will continue. But also, that doesn't answer their question at all. So they obviously did that shit.
00:49:42.120The memes will continue. That should be the tagline to this second Trump administration.1.00
00:49:48.000Yes, it absolutely should be. And I'll just leave y'all with this. If they will use AI to manipulate images, especially when the images exist in the original and that they put them out, so the public has seen them, on official White House communication channels, they will do absolutely anything, right?
00:50:07.100Like, like there is no I mean, not that I needed to tell anybody this, but there is no reason to believe anything coming out of this White House. And I don't think that they understand that when you use AI to to manipulate reality in this way, what you are admitting is that we are liars. You cannot trust anything that we say. Not that anybody needs that. That's a newsflash to anybody listening. But like, I don't know that they're aware that they're just making it clear that no one should ever take them at face value about anything ever. If they'll do this, they'll do anything.
00:50:37.100you make a good point that like this is so hard to talk about because you're right that's not a
00:50:43.380new point everybody knows that they lie constantly they will say anything they will make things up
00:50:48.300their relationship to the truth is non-existent like new phone who dis like they don't even know
00:50:56.820and like what do you do with that it's but it's clear that anybody who does take anything they
00:51:07.540say as a fact or something that might be true is playing along is carrying water for
00:51:15.940these authoritarians um and just like those podcast hockey bros you know we have to ask like
00:51:25.000what how how important is authenticity you know how much are we going to let people get away
00:51:31.580with saying things that they don't believe that they know are not true i don't know what the
00:51:38.080answer is there but i you know it seems like a big question that we need to sort out as a society
00:51:43.160couldn't have put it better myself more after a quick break
00:55:18.440A hedge fund that he used to work for successfully sued Fishback for more than $200,000, which he told the court that he's not able to pay. So great start for somebody who is throwing their hat in the ring to manage a state's budget, right?
00:55:33.460Then there is the political company that he keeps.
00:56:38.200After the fact, the club put out a statement
00:56:40.820that they had fired three people from their staff
00:56:44.140who were involved, which I guess is good.
00:56:48.060Like, on the one hand, I feel even more angry
00:56:52.200at these dudes for getting a bunch of workers fired.
00:56:55.280But then again, if those workers were cool with this song and thought that it was going to be like a fun joke to play it or maybe not even a fun joke, maybe like a fun affirmation of their values, they can get bent.
00:57:09.200And my solidarity for almost all workers does not extend to straight-up Nazis.
00:57:18.660So, sorry for that diversion, but I just had to share more about that story because I cannot believe that that happened in Miami of all places.
00:57:29.000We talked about this in the episode that we did this week with Parker Malloy briefly.
01:15:04.300But it is true that they don't often get the support, the representation, you know, the placement that they deserve.
01:15:12.560Well, that makes Autumn Gerard Arquipa's nomination even more impressive then.
01:15:18.820Exactly. So the best film nominees this year are Sinners, One Battle After Another, Begonia, Marty Supreme, F1, Frankenstein, Hamnet, The Secret Agent, Sentimental Value, and Train Dreams.
01:15:31.200I have seen a lot of these films already, but not all of them.
01:16:00.140And I said, oh, it's a Softie Brothers movie. Do you remember when I watched the movie that was also directed by the Softie Brothers, Good Time, and I told you that I had to watch it while taking long breaks because it was such a stressful, stress-inducing movie experience that I genuinely thought I might have been having a panic attack and that I've never had a more physically uncomfortable movie-watching experience in my whole life.
01:16:24.700and then you were like well how was the movie and i said great i loved it
01:16:28.280it's like that basically i was not selling it didn't none of this was selling you on going
01:16:34.380to see marty supreme with me no and multiple people have tried to talk to me about this movie
01:16:39.720which i have not seen and they all do an equally terrible job of communicating to me why i should
01:16:48.140watch it like i am sort of intrigued at this point just because it's like i clearly don't
01:16:54.980understand what it's about like i was talking to a different friend the other day and she asked me
01:17:00.640if i'd seen it i said no she was like oh i'd never seen a movie that i appreciated so much and enjoyed
01:17:07.820so little i was like what does that mean like why why does every take on this movie inscrutable
01:17:16.340i don't know i guess it does make me a little bit curious to see it i've since gleaned that
01:17:23.120i guess part of the appeal is that it provokes a lot of anxiety in the viewer and i guess that's
01:17:33.360supposed to be fun because it's cool to feel something for a change like is that part of it
01:17:38.360uh that is a softy brothers vibe of making of making movies and shows that are so anxiety
01:17:48.500provoking that the viewer the point is that the viewer becomes physically uncomfortable and
01:17:55.180perhaps distraught that's that's how i would describe it and then afterward you're like what
01:17:59.780a great experience that was i sure felt physically distraught yeah i mean i generally try to not
01:18:06.080feel physically distraught. I did really enjoy Uncut Gems and Boa's Afraid, both of which are
01:18:11.740movies that made me feel very, like, edgy. Boa's Afraid, I feel, was, like, kind of ridiculous and
01:18:19.220silly in a way that allowed me to keep a little bit of emotional distance from the anxiety.0.79
01:18:25.160I guess I'm gonna have to watch Marty Supreme. Yeah, I think I would like to see it. I remember0.84
01:18:32.220inviting my friend Nico over to watch Showa,
01:18:36.140which is the 10, if you haven't seen Showa,
01:18:37.880it's like a 10-hour documentary about the Holocaust.
01:18:41.320And after it was over, we watched all 10 hours.
01:18:44.280When it was over, Nico turned to me and said,
01:18:46.380they really did a great job of really making the viewer
01:19:49.240Perfect Neighbor is a bit of a controversial documentary. I was listening to The Ringer's
01:19:55.960movie podcast, The Big Picture, where they were breaking down the Oscar noms, and one of the hosts
01:20:00.940was talking about how he liked the documentary when he first saw it on Netflix, but then the
01:20:06.760more he thought about it, the kind of queasier it made him. And Soledad O'Brien and I, in our
01:20:12.940interview, that was one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to her, because the documentary,
01:20:16.660If folks haven't seen it, it's about a horrible murder that happened in Florida where a woman killed her neighbor and tried to claim that she did so because she feared for her life to get protection under the state's stand-your-ground laws.
01:20:32.220And so we the entire film is shot entirely through surveillance footage. So police footage and, you know, ring camera footage. And it's a pretty rough watch. There's like one scene in particular that is that is particularly hard to watch and controversial.
01:20:48.720and so I understand the feeling of this is queasy you know should this have been air
01:20:55.440what are the ethics of this and that's exactly the conversation that Soledad O'Brien and I had
01:21:00.120in that interview we'll put the conversation in the show notes but it's a conversation that I'm
01:21:04.740very proud of and Soledad O'Brien is just a very cool person and she's one of my my personal heroes
01:21:10.540and so it was cool to talk to her about it on the podcast yeah I I did see that one and I also
01:21:17.160really enjoyed listening to that interview
01:22:10.940You know, I also felt very uncomfortable with what we see in that documentary.
01:22:14.820And if you haven't seen it, it's something specific. If you have seen it, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I understand, I experienced the same discomfort, the same queasiness, the same sort of going through the ethics of it. But, and especially after that conversation that I had with Soledad O'Brien about it, it is clear to me why the movie is the way it is.
01:22:35.580It is clear to me why the team made the choices that they did ethically, editorially, visually, all of it, all of it, all of it is very clear to me. And I think folks should see the documentary if they haven't already. It's on Netflix. And they should listen to the conversation that Soledad O'Brien and I have about it, because to me, they pair very nicely. And I guess I'll just leave it there because I feel like we're talking about a movie that people are probably like, what are you talking about? But it is definitely a good documentary. And I think folks should check it out.
01:23:04.360I also wanted to shout out another movie nominated for Best Documentary, Come See Me in the Good Light, which is a documentary produced by the comedian Tig Notaro about the life of the late Colorado Poet Laureate, Andrea Gibson, who was one of my favorite poets who died of ovarian cancer over the summer.
01:23:22.280Mike, one of your favorite musicians, Brandi Carlile, who I know that you really like, wrote an original song for that film.
01:25:19.340okay so some of those are some of the high points for film in 2025 2026 are we going to go through
01:25:42.100the low points well i just have to shout out you know our favorite so that if the oscars are out0.99
01:25:47.960That means the Razzies are out. The Razzies celebrate the opposite end of the spectrum. The worst movies. Guess what? Guess what movie snagged a nomination for worst movie of the year?0.95
01:25:58.900Oh, man. If they had an award for worst movie of the decade, I think it would be a strong contender.
01:26:05.240war of the worlds which folks might remember we talked about it on the podcast i told producer
01:26:12.740mike if i think it was at least five people wrote in and left comments saying that we that we should
01:26:19.280do a rewatch episode of it we would do it five of y'all i don't know what was going on with you0.63
01:26:26.620all but five of you knuckleheads actually wrote in so we did it this is like a cursed monkey paw
01:27:02.240Oh, my God. What a masterpiece. Well, I mean, we'll put it in the show notes. That episode was actually, we've done a few movie rewatch episodes of the podcast that I force on you and all the listeners. That one was difficult because the movie just patently makes no sense.
01:27:21.840And so usually when you're talking about a movie on a podcast, the plot follows a certain structure.
01:27:26.780You can break it down for people, even if they haven't seen it.
01:27:29.620Maybe it's maybe it's interesting to listen to.0.99
01:27:32.800War of the Worlds is like off the fucking charts.0.95
01:27:35.100Like I remember being like like the notes that we took looked like the Pepe, Sylvia, Always Sunny diagram.0.99