00:03:42.200So I'm in D.C. now. I moved out here to go to Howard. Like most Howard grads, that's probably the longest I've gone without saying the words I went to Howard. And I just stayed ever since.
00:03:53.840And what would you say is your relationship to the city?
00:03:56.440Oh, my gosh. I really do feel like it raised me. I was talking with someone recently and I asked, how long do you have to live in a place to no longer be considered a transplant? Because I've lived in D.C. for 15 years now. And my friend was like, you're good.
00:04:11.420Yeah, you're in. I've been on and off in D.C. for 20 years. I'm not there now, but I'm only ever away for like a couple years at a time. But I count myself and I keep leaving. So you're in. You've been there the whole time, steady? No.
00:04:22.900I essentially bleed mambo sauce now, as far as I'm concerned.0.99
00:04:25.800now what kind of a black are you oh okay i've been thinking about this um0.98
00:04:42.420and i feel like original recipe like i am just a regular a very regular black person like0.99
00:04:52.420not a new black just old-fashioned black lady well okay i'm not an old-fashioned black lady
00:04:59.000let me not say that but what is the old-fashioned what's the original recipe i don't know i don't
00:05:04.300have all the bells and whistles like i'm not like oh post-racial society even the conversations like
00:05:10.720the diaspora wars i think i'm a little original recipe in that because i'm like y'all we are all
00:05:15.880black what are you and like people will argue about the one drop rule and i'm like you're black
00:05:21.160Like, I also, I think I have a very good black dar.0.97
00:05:23.760Like, there are people who are black and I clock it.0.99
00:05:26.020And I have friends who are like, that's a black person.1.00
00:05:27.660I'm like, I know when a Negro is in my presence.1.00
00:05:33.500Okay, so this might be, this is awkward.0.99
00:05:36.380This is the third rail, but we're going to, this story is about class.
00:06:18.600So everyone tends to get blinded by their own experience and there's a defensiveness, like an inherent defensiveness. I'm going to give it a two. I'm going to give the conversations a two, especially if they're happening online. Oh my gosh, don't even try.
00:06:34.800Oh, my God. I know. Then it's like zero. It's yeah. Why do you think that is? Why do you think class is such a like it makes people defensive?
00:06:42.780OK, I think no matter who you are, class gets sticky. It's that whole thing. It's like, don't talk about politics and money. And it's both those things together. But I think for so long, class and race has been married in this country. And for good reason, like understandably so.
00:07:01.020There have been systemic things that, you know, make a lot of black people part of the same class and make it very hard to have upward mobility.1.00
00:07:09.960But when that upward mobility does exist, it can get a little sticky because it's this thing of, well, you're still experiencing racism.
00:07:17.100And it's like, yeah, but also like there are privileges that come with having money.
00:07:22.880And then there's all this, like, class anxiety that's harder to move up in the world.
00:07:46.760This story is about class and is actually in D.C.
00:07:50.140Ooh, back when it was really Chocolate City?
00:07:53.240Back when it was becoming Chocolate City.
00:07:58.920We are in the Gilded Age, a.k.a. the Victorian era, a.k.a. the 1880s.
00:08:04.580In society news, President Grover Cleveland has become the first and only president to get married in the White House.
00:08:12.180His bride is 27 years his junior, and she told their reverend, Dr. Byron Sutherland, that they would be changing her vows from honor, love, and obey to honor, love, and keep.
00:12:36.480Richard has made the three out of four.
00:12:38.300So that means him, his wife, their son, and two daughters are officially members of the first family.
00:12:44.460And so that brings us to the star of today's story.
00:12:46.560This is one of Richard's daughters, Miss Louise Marla Francis, whom everybody calls Lulu.
00:12:55.540Lulu is likely a fashionista, a little spunky and opinionated, likely educated.
00:13:01.360She would have been doing things like attending organizing meetings for women's suffrage at the city's first black Presbyterian church, the 15th Street Presbyterian Church.
00:13:10.580She's a woman described by the Washington Post at the time as the Belle of Colored D.C.
00:13:15.180So basically, she is our ideal rom-com heroine.
00:13:18.800I wish I had a picture of her, but I do not.
00:13:41.860So once Lulu hits marrying age, inquiring minds would want to know who is it going to be? Who is she going to pick? Much like Lori Harvey. At this time, she could have ended up with a young W.B. Du Bois. They're in the same class. Or maybe his mortal enemy, Booker T. Washington.
00:18:30.440So they think like, okay, how are we going to change this?
00:18:32.280How are we going to make things better for ourselves?
00:18:34.460And W.E.B. Du Bois and a lot of people come up with this idea of the talented tent.
00:18:38.440And they're like, all right, we need y'all to go in there,
00:18:41.340be as respectable and as elegant and educated as possible to put these white people at ease
00:18:48.120and show them that like, see, I'm a human just like you. See my hands? You can't really reason.
00:18:53.980You have to be like, it's okay. It's okay. Or you have to just fight, but they're outnumbered.
00:18:58.160It gives something that I would have thought to do when I was like in my 20s and felt like I had
00:19:03.260something to prove. And this is like, they're the first generation of people. A lot of them
00:19:07.880were slaves and now they're free white people are not okay with this it's not like everybody's
00:19:12.800like oh yeah you earned it good for you like they're under duress at all times so yes you're0.87
00:19:18.480having to like overcompensate overprove overdo all these things and the idea is if we send y'all0.54
00:19:24.920in there to do that then white people will be put at ease and then go around to the back of the club
00:19:31.300open the door and then you're gonna let all the rest of us in here's what the strategy didn't
00:19:36.340account for. It's hard to be in something but not of it. What did Audre Lorde say? Master's house,
00:19:43.940master's tools, et cetera. Yes. So the talented tent start to adopt the traditions and the
00:19:50.880customs of the elites they're meant to be imitating, and then they come back to the1.00
00:19:54.700Black community and are these enforcers of the politics of respectability and brutal critics0.94
00:20:00.200of anybody that doesn't comply. Ooh, I wonder if that had any long-term consequences.1.00
00:20:04.800You know what I keep thinking? I'm like, you create a strategy that'll really work for you. But then, uh-oh, we just kept the same exact strategy for like hundreds of years. We didn't update it, you know, as like modern people. I think we're trying to update it now. But it's so hard for me to judge them ever because I'm like, it did work. I am here.
00:20:28.140Yeah. It's also this thing of like, if you're barely one generation out of being enslaved, you know, I'm going to I'm going to have sympathy.
00:22:29.920Thirty years before Lulu's forbidden love, the DMV had another it girl, and her name was Lucinda Seton.
00:22:36.660When a famous German-American painter came to D.C. looking to paint the portrait of the quintessential African-American lady to be displayed across Europe, do you know who he chose?
00:23:40.280So we're talking about a horrible, like, mass rape from white enslavers of Black women.1.00
00:23:45.660And then Black women are giving birth to these hundreds of thousands of people.0.99
00:23:48.920These are just the people that they counted.
00:23:50.660So the white men who fathered these children, at that time, there was, like, a culture among some of them of claiming these children and either giving them better jobs on the plantation, like in the house.0.60
00:24:02.500We know what this does to our community, but they're bringing their children inside.0.58
00:24:06.660All right. Time for colorism to start.
00:24:10.280But they're like, you know, you are my son, you are my daughter, you work inside.0.51
00:24:15.600It's disgusting and weird, but this is what they're doing.
00:24:17.880Or they're freeing them after a certain age or sending them off to Europe to be educated
00:24:22.920or even sometimes leaving them inheritances.
00:24:26.300Some of the elite families got their start this way or they claimed to have gotten their
00:24:31.240start this way because it was seen as a respectable thing.
00:24:34.240It was like you were special to your dad.
00:24:37.260And obviously we know this is how we came by being light skin, which is among the most important qualities a member of the Black elite could ever possess.1.00
00:33:01.620And because at this time, to, like, put on a uniform and work in a hotel and, like, work for dignitaries and all these things, this is really, really important to them.
00:39:28.300You think you're so much better than us?
00:39:30.060You think I don't know what's going on behind closed doors?
00:39:32.260A lot of his readers, who the B refers to as the household, that's what they call Black D.C.
00:39:41.860Hey, roomies, like, okay, I know you're not the shade room, but it's giving the shade room at times.0.80
00:39:46.900Exactly. It's good branding. It's good branding. You got to brand your audience.
00:39:50.820The household feels looked down upon by the Black elites because they're working class or they're poor or they're dark-skinned or they couldn't go to college.
00:39:58.540And so behind their back, the household calls the first families the Fust families.
00:40:43.980OK, and this is what, OK, this makes me think.
00:40:47.460It's that thing of, hey, we're all black people, et cetera, et cetera.
00:40:52.360But and I admit sometimes when I see tweets about this where people complaining about, quote unquote, black elite or like black college educated people, there's something in you that inherently gets defensive, even though you'll have these conversations about men, about white supremacy.
00:41:09.100And you say, hey, you got to take a hard look at X, Y, Z.
00:41:12.960But when the finger points to you, it admittedly does not feel good.
00:41:16.720And I do feel like people start bringing out their, like, no, no, no, no, their cards, where it's like, well, my dad, my parents, I'm a first-generation college graduate.
00:41:24.060Like, I don't, don't put me with them.
00:41:25.800Like, my family grew up with no money.
00:41:27.280You just want to start, you do these things.
00:41:29.460And it takes a lot of work to check that and say, okay, only hit dogs holler.
00:42:14.520And the first families hate this column.
00:42:17.240Their complaints about it reach such a fever pitch that William, who is normally like, don't care, don't care, don't care, has to release a statement being like, sorry, I don't know who Clara and Luis are.
00:48:37.240If that man left once, he'll leave again.0.94
00:48:39.680and when he does it again you're gonna feel so stupid i just uh like oh i'm gonna get you back0.95
00:48:46.800baby like i guess but she let that man spin the block and here we are what a scandal i think it0.98
00:48:52.260would have been better if she had said you know i'm not feeling it call it off maybe wait some
00:48:57.580time lay low a little bit but to run off and get married also her sister was in cahoots we can't
00:49:06.620forget this. It's not all on Lulu. Her sister was in cahoots. Also, who was, wasn't her mom who was
00:49:11.640all like, don't marry that girl? No, they said it was a friend. So that's why I feel like Dion,
00:49:15.760okay, so this is my conspiracy theory that I had cooked up in my head based on no evidence.
00:49:21.480I feel like Richard, Lulu's dad, went to Dion, Lulu's best friend, and he was like, Dion,
00:49:29.360my daughter cannot marry that broke barber. I need you to go to him and tell him that if he
00:49:35.080really cares for Lulu, the best thing he can do for her is to leave her. And so then Dion like
00:49:40.220went to him. She said that. Lulu is like, oh my God, he left me. I want to be with him. And maybe
00:49:45.060Richard gave him some money because you know that's how rich people do it. That is true.
00:49:48.960So then Mr. Craigwell leaves town. Lulu is like, oh my God, like I can't live without him. Dion's
00:49:54.420like, you'll be fine. Lulu's like, should I invite him to my wedding? Dion is like, girl, no. Then
00:50:00.460boom, boom, boom. He's back in her life. They're married. Also, it's this thing of, and this is
00:50:04.660something my mom always said and of course there are exceptions to this rule but it's a thing of
00:50:08.960if your child is dating someone you don't like don't make a fuss because that will only drive
00:50:14.360them into their arms oh yeah and that's exactly what they did you came for the mess now stay for
00:50:23.880the rest when our ancestors were messy continues
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00:51:12.500That's 844-844-iHeart. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your
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00:51:25.260part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and
00:51:29.900Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're
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00:52:07.080Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:58:33.800pioneer resident of Seattle and veteran barber,
00:58:36.660died Monday morning from a heart ailment.
00:58:39.220Mr. Craigwell was born in Virginia in 1862.
00:58:42.880After graduation from high school, young Craigwell moved to Pennsylvania,
00:58:46.280but later returned to Washington where he engaged in the barber business.
00:58:50.240In 1885, Mr. Craigwell was married to Miss Louise Francis by the same minister that married Grover Cleveland.
00:58:56.580They moved to Seattle in 1890, where the young barber again started his business.
00:59:00.940His shop was a gathering place for business leaders during and after the days of the Alaska Gold Rush.
00:59:06.800During his 56 years as a barber, he shaved many notables, including Presidents Theodore Roosevelt and William McKinley,
00:59:13.440John Jacob Astor, Alexander Graham Bell, and many others.
00:59:17.640Besides his business, Mr. Craigwell was interested in several civic affairs.
00:59:21.560He used to take an active part in politics, and at the time of his death, he held one of the highest offices in the Presbyterian Church.
00:59:28.860Surviving are his widow, Mrs. Louise Craigwell, two daughters, three grandchildren, and one great-grandchild.
00:59:36.160On November 24th, 1935, Mr. and Mrs. Craigwell celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary, which hundreds of Seattle citizens attended.
00:59:44.920Oh, they got a happy ending. Good for you, girl. Okay. You can spin the block this one time, but never do it again.
00:59:52.000Craigwell passes away in 1937 and Lulu passes away in 1942. And as much as I would love to tell you that that's the end, I want you to have this happy ending. There is one last part.
01:00:03.260Oh, no. Oh, why are they like this? See, don't spin the block. I told you. I told you, don't do it. Do not text that man.
01:00:12.040Yes. Lulu and Cragwell were among Seattle's earliest Black citizens and members of Seattle's Black elite.
01:00:21.300And yeah, Cragwell does go on to become a barber and the city's most successful Black entrepreneur.
01:00:27.900He has a staff of 11 tonsillary artists in fashionable downtown barbershops, but about those shops.0.78
01:00:36.320So white people really like to be waited on by Black people immediately following the end of slavery, but they didn't want other Black people around also being served.
01:00:47.220So some barbers would guarantee their all-white clientele that the staff would be all Black, but that they wouldn't serve any Black people.
01:00:56.480And members of Seattle's Black press accused Cragwell of this practice, and they call him a segregationist barber.
01:01:02.940it's very hard to be in it but not of it of course there's so much more that happened but
01:01:11.940for now that is the story of the scandalous cross-class romance of miss lulu francis
01:01:19.320wow uh gilded age laurie harvey you took me through a lot just now a lot
01:01:26.860do you think it's possible to be in it but not of it to be operating in these spaces of power
01:01:43.720but not adopting their practices and their ways of of thinking and treating people oh this is a
01:01:49.340question that i think about a lot just living my own life and living in dc i i would like to think
01:01:55.060that you can be around and not be dragged down by the grips and allure of power but i know that
01:02:03.140as humans we don't do that it's almost like the ring and lord of the rings like you're around it
01:02:09.160and the pull becomes so strong that you can't say no and then like what do you become you know
01:02:14.880i would like to think that someone is strong enough to do it but i don't know if that person
01:02:19.960exists yeah that's real how are you feeling about the tactic of lift as we climb as a strategy for
01:02:29.1201886 what did we gain what did we lose okay huh honestly there are things about there are things
01:02:37.800about it that worked at the time so i can't begrudge them that and i guess like the other0.88
01:02:43.260option would have led to even more death and destruction for black people so i get the route0.53
01:02:50.720that they took and you know talk about monday morning quarterbacking but you know what if we
01:02:56.440say okay we're just going to do this for two years and then like we have to be real people after this
01:03:01.460you know we can't be doing this uh in 2024 like they devise a plan where this strategy is sunsetted
01:03:10.440by 2024. What would you what would you have us do? Probably disengage completely. Just stop
01:03:17.520caring. Like just being like nothing is going to work. If people want to be racist, they're just
01:03:22.340going to do it and they will find any and every reason to do it. At this point, who cares about
01:03:27.140the white gays? What are we up to? That is the strategy I would deploy now. What do you think0.99
01:03:32.300about looking at black history starting from the messy beginnings? Because Craigwell is like in1.00
01:03:37.820Seattle. That name is a big deal. He's like seen as a big pioneer and as a person who's done this
01:03:42.740incredible thing. And you start the story from the time that he got to Seattle. And then, you know,
01:03:48.200you kind of talk about all the hard work he did, everything he overcame, his incredible resilience
01:03:52.960and business acumen. And he's, you know, an amazing black capitalist. But we don't talk,
01:03:57.960you know, about this other part. Yeah. I don't know. I kind of like the mess because it's also
01:04:02.240a reminder that something my mom would say to me over and over again is there's nothing new under
01:04:08.180the sun. And I would think, I don't think that's true. But this makes me realize, no, there really
01:04:13.740is nothing new under the sun. And I think we would all give ourselves a lot more grace if we looked
01:04:20.240at our ancestors as people and knew that they could get messy, too. Sometimes even messier.
01:04:25.720Because this is wild. I'm like, five days before your wedding?
01:04:28.680Like, that is wild. Like, she loved that man down.
01:04:32.240I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
01:04:39.780what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. Every
01:04:45.800week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,
01:04:51.200and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
01:04:56.380Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:05:04.760If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
01:05:10.540Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
01:05:18.840Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture
01:05:22.320with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.