Jimmy Kimmel Fired by Disney; Karen Attiah Fired from the Post; DOJ Hides Far Right Extremism; Ads On Your Fridge! – NEWS ROUNDUP w⧸ L. Joy Williams
00:03:08.360Like, generally, when I do these episodes, I'm having a cocktail.
00:03:11.640It's the end of a long Thursday. I'm sort of looking back on the week and this, I just, it doesn't, things don't feel good. Things don't feel right. Like, I'll give it to y'all straight. It really feels like things have escalated quite quickly in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder. I will say I have personally, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this. What have, what have, what have you been sensing around this?
00:03:34.960Well, I would say the same thing. While I was prepared for it, like you knew things were coming, but you don't know how things are going to be executed, how people are going to take advantage of different moments of different things. And really, it is opportunistic in a lot of spaces.
00:03:52.800And so on the one hand, I feel like people are acting as if things are normal and I just want to go around and shake everyone.
00:04:04.680I was at a dinner where I was being honored and like the whole room. There's one of those dinners where like nobody pays attention to your phone.
00:04:13.560Everybody's just talking and networking and dealing. And like they had Cheryl Swoops up there getting an award and like nobody was paying attention.
00:04:20.540I was like, what is happening? When I got up there, I was like, for the four or five people who are listening to me, this is indicative of what's happening out in the world where there is a set of people who are just like, oh, this is just, you know, normal.
00:04:35.300And I'm going to continue my deals and my networking and things of that nature. And there's only a handful of people paying attention.
00:04:41.440and you have to capture those who those few who are paying attention we have to get rid of the
00:04:49.980moniker that we need to get the masses and need to get everybody's just like nope just speak to
00:04:54.000the people that's paying attention build and organize with them and then eventually that'll
00:04:58.400get larger and larger so that's what it feels like it feels like you're trying to have some
00:05:06.980sense of normalcy, particularly for me, I have kids and right. So I don't I can't walk around
00:05:11.680the house like the sky is falling. But at the same time, being able to clearly see what's
00:05:19.260happening around you and develop plans to respond accordingly. Spoken like a true organizer. This is
00:05:25.000why I'm glad I have you on the show this week. I want to ask you something that I hope is not
00:05:28.520too personal sure I don't have kids I my sense is people that do have kids it kind of forces you
00:05:38.360to stay tethered to some sense of hope to some sense that something better is on the horizon
00:05:44.220I feel you know not having children myself I have a lot of young people in my life and nieces and
00:05:49.660nephews and people that I young people that I care about but there's something I think there's
00:05:54.780something about being a parent in this time where you kind of have to force yourself no matter how
00:06:00.120dark things seem to think there's something better on the horizon for my kid do you ever get that
00:06:05.240sense absolutely there are all these obviously memes on tiktok and stuff like that where there's
00:06:10.960like the mom having the nervous breakdown and the kid comes and like um gives them the juice box to
00:06:16.160open for them and there's just like oh i open the juice box and then continue to slide down the wall
00:06:20.580um so we experience that on a regular basis right whether it's your own I mean imagine coming home
00:06:28.240from a hard day or like I said this you know past week has been you know slammed me I have four kids
00:06:35.260the youngest one being one years old and so when I'm laying on the couch and they come home
00:06:39.760they're jumping on top of me doing whatever I can't be like don't be happy you see what Trump
00:06:44.600was doing to D.C. You know what I mean? And so it's how do you have the conversations, the older
00:06:51.960ones who are 10 and 16, having conversations with them? Because I don't want them to be
00:06:57.720completely disconnected from what's happening in the world. And so talking to them about the
00:07:03.780things that are happening in an appropriate manner so that they're not walking around scared,
00:07:08.480but that also they're aware. And then for me, as someone who's a civics enthusiast,
00:07:13.960I always like to, whether it's, you know, the adults who listen to the show I do, Sunday Civics,
00:07:20.160or even the young people I engage with, I give them the hope that they have the power and the
00:07:25.660ability to change things, that they don't, you know, this is not just stuff that's happening to
00:07:30.660you, but you have an opportunity. And what tools do you have in your toolbox to respond to what
00:07:37.140is happening around you. That's so important. And I think especially right now when we're having
00:07:41.380conversations about young people and this feeling of nihilism and feeling, which I understand,
00:07:48.200but I think the antidote to that is offering what you're offering, that you actually do have
00:07:52.240agency. You can make change. Yeah. Being raised by an organizer, I think you're probably raising
00:07:57.560young folks who feel quite engaged and quite empowered to make change in their communities.
00:08:28.900Absolutely. Let's talk more about this, because even though we I feel like I've done I've done quite a bit of research and I still don't feel confident saying, you know, in terms of what happened with Charlie Kirk, that we know exactly a clear motive.
00:08:42.900Like, I don't I don't think we're there yet, but that has not stopped the Trump administration and their allies from really using this to crack down on a lot of free expression and speech.
00:08:53.200We talked about this in our recent episode that I recorded the day that Charlie Kirk was killed, but we've really seen it ramp up since then.
00:09:01.820The Washington Post opinion columnist Karen Atia was fired for essentially quoting Kirk on social media.
00:09:08.860We'll actually hear from Karen Atia in her own words in an upcoming episode, so stay tuned for that.
00:09:13.300It does sound to me like they were kind of angling to get her out of the post ever since Amazon's Jeff Bezos bought the paper and really announced it as a much more kind of conservative, Trump-friendly slant.
00:09:26.160But it sounds like since that change, they have been sort of angling to get her out of the post.
00:09:31.780But since she was fired, there are no Black columnists at the post.
00:10:08.060curb deaths, I expressed sadness and fear for America. My journalistic and moral values for
00:10:12.920balance compelled me to condemn violence and murder without engaging in an excessive false
00:10:17.440mourning for a man who routinely attacked Black women as a group, put academics in danger by
00:10:22.120putting them on watch lists, claimed falsely that Black people were better off in the era of Jim
00:10:26.020Crow, and said that the Civil Rights Act was a mistake, and favorably reviewed a book that
00:10:30.420called liberals unhumans. In a since-deleted post, a user accused me of supporting violence and
00:10:35.320fascism. I made clear that not performing over the top grief for white men who espouse violence
00:10:40.640was not the same as endorsing violence against them. My only direct reference to Kirk was one
00:10:46.560post, his own words on the record. So that first of all, her her words, I think I think she's a
00:10:52.640hell of a writer. But I think that that bit is the substance of why the post says that they fired
00:10:58.020her. So essentially, she posted on Blue Sky a quote that she attributed to Kirk, quote,
00:11:04.080Black women do not have the brain to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's1.00
00:11:09.580slut. Now, there is a small quibble here in that bit when we actually played an audio from Kirk's1.00
00:11:16.880show in our episode about Charlie Kirk. But the quibble is that they're saying, oh, well, he was
00:11:21.940talking about a handful of specific Black women, Michelle Obama, Joy Reid, then Congresswoman
00:11:27.500Sheila Jackson Lee, Supreme Court Justice Katanji Brown Jackson. Like he was like naming specific
00:11:32.580women. So my sense is that in order to justify her firing, they're saying, oh, well, she misquoted0.88
00:11:39.800Kirk because she's making it sound like he was talking about Black women writ large, but really
00:11:45.720he was talking about these specific Black women, which in my opinion, I just don't. I think it's
00:11:52.140pulling over a small, like small language, right? Because it's not as if this one individual
00:11:57.700statement was taken out of context, there is a pattern and practice of this person stating
00:12:03.640inflammatory things that are geared towards a particular people, ethnic group, organizations,
00:12:11.760and things of that nature. So it's not as if a journalist is sort of mischaracterizing this
00:12:16.720person, but that it is part of the pattern and practice of the rhetoric that they were
00:12:22.500doing on a daily basis. And, you know, I think for a large part, as you mentioned, for a lot of
00:12:29.460things that are happening, again, I believe people are just taking the moments and the
00:12:34.260opportunities, right, using it as an excuse. The reason why I want to fire Lisa Cook is also
00:12:39.680because I want control over the Federal Reserve Board. The reason why, you know, I want to fire
00:12:45.860all of these people in particular agencies is because I want to take over the money that is in
00:12:50.980there and also your contracts, private contracts, to the people that I owe money to for private
00:12:57.880prisons. So I think for a lot of it, it is taking the opportunity and riling people up, right, to
00:13:05.960again, which we do very well in American history. We do very well, particularly wealthy people.
00:13:13.240And I'm talking about uber wealthy. I'm not talking about y'all with like a million dollars,
00:13:17.300Right. I'm talking to uber wealthy where they point the finger at other people. Right. They say, oh, you can't afford bread. You know why that is is because of the people coming across the border. Oh, you can't get a job. That's because, you know, you have all of these people with visas coming over from South Korea. Right.
00:13:35.660So it continues to point the finger that the issue that you are most pressed about, i.e. the pocketbook issues that people keep saying, that they point back to the people as opposed to the folks who are in power and making the decisions and continuing to make the money.
00:13:54.100We've done that time and time again when blacks and whites after Reconstruction are rebuilding cities and towns and you have poor white folks and poor black folks coming together, building industry, fighting back for workers' rights, voting rights and things of that nature.
00:14:12.500There is a split. They're telling the poor white people, well, we'll give you an extra two dollars. We'll give you an extra five dollars. You'll be in charge.
00:14:19.140You'll be management over these people, right? You can't view yourself as the same, you know, as these Black people who were formerly enslaved. Goodness, no, right? Then fast forward when people are organizing in the union movement and they're again telling white people who now we consider white, but telling Irish people and Italians and others who were organizing again with Black people, with Asian people, with Mexican people for workers' rights and things of that nature and saying, you don't want to be like them.0.91
00:14:48.800You want to be white over here. Right. So we have a pattern in practice in this country when I say we right of counting to the wealthy people and believing their argument on who's responsible for our present condition.0.63
00:15:04.560And it's a distraction from the people who continue to make money. Absolutely fucking correct.0.93
00:15:09.800incorrect. And it's so effective. Sometimes I can't believe how effective it is. I can't believe0.99
00:15:16.620that this that this old I mean, I guess that's why it's an old tried and true tactic. I can't
00:15:21.920believe that here we are in 2025. That same thing that was being used to divide us decades ago is
00:15:27.820still effective. I cannot believe that it's still something that we have to contend with. But I
00:15:32.620guess that's why it's an old chestnut is because it works. Right. It is because of an unhealed
00:15:38.360wound of race and slavery and not really, you know, just think about here in the state of New York
00:15:44.960where we're dealing with, you know, a mayor's race and a governor in New York state who seemingly
00:15:52.640are in the same tent. You'll have to bring me back and have a whole nother, you know,
00:15:58.100listen to my tirade on why there shouldn't be just two parties because there is no possible
00:16:03.980way that AOC and Hillary Clinton should be in the same political party, but I digress. But having
00:16:10.320the conversation even in New York about raising taxes on people that are making 600, 700 million
00:16:18.620dollars, right? And people are like, no, I can't raise taxes. All the wealthy people will leave.
00:16:22.920So my first reaction is like, okay, bye. They have the wherewithal to go wherever they need
00:16:28.040to go to continue to make money and, you know, feed their families and things of that nature.
00:16:33.360But those of us, right, who are working class, barely making it, a lot of people didn't leave because they have no resources and things to leave to go to a different to go to a different place.
00:16:45.260So my first reaction is bad. The second thing is a lot of them probably already take advantage of shelling their money around and things like that.
00:16:54.320so they pay less taxes to begin with. And so instead of cutting the programs that are going
00:16:59.500to be much needed, particularly in this time where the federal government is cutting all different
00:17:04.420departments from health care, which is a huge concern for us here in the state of New York,
00:17:08.620education, even SNAP benefits and all of those things, to then say to the people that are hanging
00:17:14.980on who need the affordability to begin with, who need the relief to begin with to say,
00:17:20.360oh well we're getting less money so you're gonna have to do more with less0.98
00:17:23.920when these motherfuckers over here with like millions of dollars and they're just like oh0.97
00:17:29.720sorry for you must be hard be hard right i'm going to cabo like it doesn't make any sense0.98
00:17:39.500and particularly while it's a small percentage and majority of people um that are in because
00:17:44.860i don't want to castigate all wealthy people like this because some of your a lot of people
00:17:49.000was just like, yeah, I'll pay more so that I can have a functioning infrastructure in this state
00:17:54.120and in this city to continue to make the money that I need to make. Because they have understood
00:17:58.380that it's not about, you know, putting money in a system that doesn't get back. It's putting money
00:18:04.460in the system so that we can all benefit, right? I put money and I pay taxes so that I can have the
00:18:10.100infrastructure of roads. I put money and I put taxes in so that I can have the infrastructure
00:18:14.840of public schools. I put money in and I pay my taxes so that I can have health care. And then
00:18:20.400in the instance where, okay, I have health care and I can afford it, you can take care of other
00:18:25.020people who may need it, which benefits us all. And so people thinking that if we do something
00:18:32.040over here, that it literally takes something out of your pocket, again, is a story and a narrative
00:18:38.860that we have been led to believe. And it's a lie. It's absolutely a lie. And what you just described
00:18:45.900is community, is a society. It's how we all live together. But there are people that hear that hear
00:18:51.160what you just described and think it's awful. And then it's just so funny to me how I mean,
00:18:55.760this is such a tangent, but, you know, hearing about how the Trump administration is thinking
00:19:19.920We believe in socialism for private prisons, right?
00:19:25.140Like, we believe in socialism when it's making money for other people.
00:19:28.760So, you know, the other thing I would say is this nature of this question.
00:19:33.640If you're talking to people who, although you don't see them much anymore, the people that have the Don't Tread on Me t-shirts, I wonder where they went.
00:22:20.040It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:22:27.940Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:22:37.120Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:25:28.540And it's done nefariously and it's done from an organizing perspective as well. Just think about how we as organizers use moments. Right. You know, there was during the George Floyd eruption, people took the moment to, you know, address legislation that had been pending for some time.
00:25:49.840you know movements that you know we're dying and now you got new people you know who are aware and
00:25:57.440energized and educated and so you're going to fill them in on that and so I think what is difficult
00:26:03.880though what I call the nefarious thing is taking advantage of someone losing their life now I don't
00:26:09.840believe like I'm personally you know because I know that they're seeking the death penalty for
00:26:14.700this person or whatever, you know, my faith doesn't allow me, you know, my faith tells me that we are
00:26:20.320not embodied to take anybody's life. Right. And so, you know, there are ways we can't be the most
00:26:28.580advanced creatures in society and still not figure out a way to, quote, punish people for these
00:26:35.140things. And to take advantage of this moment when someone lost their life, no matter how, you know,
00:26:42.780vile his rhetoric and everything may be, I don't wish people to die. You know what I mean? I don't,
00:26:49.600and particularly not in the manner in which we are. And so instead of taking that moment,
00:26:54.340instead of taking that moment to address the pervasive violence and particularly
00:26:58.460gun violence in our country, right, that we use that as an opportunity for government,
00:27:05.800because here's what's happening. Government is actually limiting speech, which is the very thing
00:27:11.220that the Constitution says. Me telling you, Bridget, you can't say that, you know, or something
00:27:16.960like that, like, that's not what the Constitution says. It's saying the government cannot abridge
00:27:24.460your free speech, right? And so the government, federal agencies, federal staff, and appointed,
00:27:32.580you know, agency directors and things of that nature, telling people that you can't say that,
00:27:37.760or things of that nature, is the very definition of the federal government limiting the speech.
00:27:44.780Now, we also say what? You can sing the thing. It doesn't prevent the repercussions, you know,
00:27:50.880that you may experience. So sure, you can call me the N-word, might get punched in the face.0.94
00:27:56.300Like, that's the reconnection you got, right? Like, from that standpoint, you know what I mean?0.90
00:28:02.340So I think, you know, again, I think the taking of opportunity and not addressing the root cause.
00:28:10.920Right. Because, again, people are taking advantage or taking the opportunity to further their old narratives rather than using the opportunity to address what is really the culprit, which is the pervasive gun violence in our communities.
00:28:25.640I want to talk about that because when I saw that Karen was getting fired from the Post, I was like, oh, well, black women, we are so often the sort of canaries in a coal mine.
00:28:35.380You know, we've seen black woman after black woman being targeted and fired by the Trump administration.0.89
00:28:40.580Black women like Joy Reid and Jamel Hill being fired from media jobs or pushed out.0.79
00:28:45.240You know, a black woman is fired or silenced or or censored off the Internet.0.97
00:28:49.440And then it's like crickets. And then it's like, OK, no one's going to do anything.
00:28:52.600Oh, and Jimmy Kimmel was fired and then people got statements and like things or whatever.
00:28:58.200So I've seen a lot of reporting suggesting that Kimmel was taken off the air because of his comments about Kirk.
00:29:04.800But to me, that's not even totally correct.
00:29:08.180I will play you the actual thing that he said about Kirk.
00:29:12.160We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them.
00:29:48.320multiple ABC executives felt that Kimmel
00:29:50.700had not even actually said anything that was over the line, according to two sources, but that the
00:29:55.040threat of Trump administration retaliation really loomed large. And this is like mobster
00:30:00.600government shit, right? Like the FCC chair, Brendan Carr, suggested that ABC's broadcast0.99
00:30:05.880license would be at risk because of these comments. And just like we talked about it in an earlier
00:30:10.020episode about CBS, it really seems like this is more about ABC's upcoming merger, which they will
00:30:15.740need FCC approval to do. So just before ABC's announcement about Jimmy Kimmel, Nextstar Media
00:30:21.060Group said that its stations affiliated with ABC were going to be preempting Kimmel's show for the
00:30:25.680foreseeable future because of his statements around Kirk and MAGA. So just a little bit of context,
00:30:31.440Nextstar is seeking FCC approval for its planned $6.2 billion merger with Tanga. If you've not
00:30:37.820heard of those companies before, I also had not heard of them before, but they basically are these
00:30:42.940hugely influential media companies that own hundreds of local TV stations and news outlets
00:30:48.240across the country. And they basically decide what is on television for hundreds of millions
00:30:52.440of Americans. And they're clearly willing to make those decisions based on what Trump wants
00:30:56.980Americans to watch. And so Trump signaled that targeting ABC and Kimmel is far from the end.
00:31:03.280Like Trump said that he wants the federal government to revoke the licenses of any other
00:31:07.520broadcast television networks that are, quote, against him. And so I think it's exactly what
00:31:13.180you said, that I don't even think this is about Kirk. I think this is about mobster tactics.
00:31:19.280I'm talking mobster tactics in the sense that you have FCC Chairman Carr going on a podcast before
00:31:25.160Kimmel was fired and saying, well, ABC can either remove Kimmel the hard way or the easy way to
00:31:31.380exert control and pressure over these companies. And these companies are more than happy to roll
00:31:36.920over and bend the knee and kiss the ring to Trump so that it does not mess up their, you know,
00:31:42.380their merger plans to sort of consolidate our media system. Well, this is also the reason
00:31:49.200that we originally pushed forth the movement. And you just gave me an idea to talk about this
00:31:58.900for a future show on antitrust laws, because if you have these major, you know, companies that
00:32:08.120are coming together, they're merging and all that stuff, and they control basically the whole
00:32:14.040industry, there is very limited competition. There is limited diversity in voices. And it's
00:32:21.940bad for our economy and for our society and you know to a lot of these companies you know this
00:32:32.280person the president is not even asking them or telling them to do stuff for a lot of people
00:32:37.820because we saw this even with the decision that was very narrow on diversity equity inclusion
00:32:42.620at colleges we begin to see colleges instead of like well I don't want to be out of favor with
00:32:48.320the current administration. I'm going to do this. Right. So for a lot of the things that are
00:32:52.440happening, it's not as if somebody is asking, directly asking them to doing. They're willingly
00:32:58.260doing it to be in favor. Right. Because they see how sort of the mob sort of comes together
00:33:06.500and decide, you know, this is the evil entity. This is who is preventing America from being
00:33:14.720great meanwhile your bread is still your the fruit is still the groceries are still you know
00:33:22.780yeah I mean this is my and I as an organizer I'm I'm very curious for your thoughts so
00:33:29.780it has not stopped with Kimmel and again I just want to make it clear like I am no bit like I'm
00:33:35.600I Jimmy Kimmel will be fine this is like not about his show this is not about him he will be fine but
00:33:40.140I think that the fact that we've spent so much time talking about free speech, free speech, free speech, and when we talked about it in the in the context of like social media platforms as well, a private social media platform kicking somebody off is not really a free speech issue because they're not the government.
00:33:55.520But now we have the government, as you said, not really asking or demanding, but making it clear that, oh, we would like this to happen.
00:34:05.580And great television merger deal you have here.
00:34:09.100Wouldn't it be a shame if something were to happen to it?
00:34:15.140And again, I don't think it's about Kirk because now they are going after shows that have nothing.
00:34:20.020They had nothing remotely even negative to say about Kirk.
00:34:23.220Not that Kimmel did either, but you know what I mean.
00:34:25.520Seth Meyers on his show did a whole special segment in the wake of Kirk where he talked about how horrible political violence is, like exactly the kind of like respectful, you know, tone that you would expect.
00:34:37.860And that didn't keep Trump from today saying, oh, I want Seth Meyers and Jimmy Fallon taken off the air, too, because he just doesn't like these people.
00:34:45.400He just doesn't he doesn't want these shows on the air.
00:34:47.940And so the idea that this is about Kirk is just you can see that that's not true.
00:34:52.760They're talking about taking the view off of the air.
00:34:55.500You know, a little bit of backstory here in broadcasting.
00:34:58.220They have that rule, the equal opportunity rule, where broadcasters who feature a political candidate on their show have to give equal time to their rivals upon request.
00:35:07.160But certain types of shows are exempt.
00:35:09.520Newscasts, interview programs, certain documentaries, things like that.
00:35:15.060So just today, FCC chairman Brendan Carr went on a podcast and said,
00:35:19.800I'm not so sure that The View is a bona fide news program, and I think we should investigate and maybe shut that show down.
00:35:26.560So, one, we can see that this is not about Charlie Kirk, but exactly what you said.
00:35:31.600I'm, I'm, I, this might sound Pollyanna-ish, but I think that only, this, this kind of stuff, I think, is only popular with the, like, most loyal of the loyal MAGA types.
00:35:44.340We've already seen people like Bari Weiss and Tucker Carlson kind of say like, hey, these are attacks on free speech.
00:35:50.420I personally wonder if the Trump administration is sort of overplaying their hand here, because most people that I know are worried about exactly what you said.
00:35:59.600Grocery prices. Everything is like people who say, oh, I voted for the price of eggs.
00:36:04.140I voted for the price of groceries. Well, your groceries are twice as expensive right now.
00:36:07.340Are you really worried about what they're saying on The View?0.97
00:36:09.400Are you really worried about what they're saying on what Jimmy fucking Fallon has to say?0.92
00:36:13.520Like I maybe this is being too optimistic. I genuinely think this is going to backfire because I don't think that anybody but the most loyal MAGA types are seeing this and thinking, oh, this is great. This is what I really care about right now.0.96
00:36:27.640Well, I share your optimism that I hope so. But here's something that I know I've shared previously. You know, you may have heard people talk about this in terms of population, in terms of people who believe in democracy, believe in a prosperous future.
00:36:44.780There are more people that believe in that than that believe in the retrenchment to an America of a bygone era.
00:36:52.580And if you have that diminishing population, there are two things you have to do.
00:36:57.740One, you have to engage with young people in high schools and colleges to build another generation or two that will come behind the people that are already shrinking, i.e. something like a Talking Points USA.
00:37:11.680The second thing is the base that you do have. You have to keep them riled up and engaged so that they are always doing something, engaged, talking, turning out, voting, doing whatever. Right.
00:37:23.480Meanwhile, suppressing in a very deliberate way, making people feel as your vote is not going to matter. And even if you do vote, I'm going to create barriers like gerrymandering. I'm going to change on the state level ID laws and who's eligible to vote, making it difficult.
00:37:41.800So it's a very structured piece. And so I always argue, at least for my strategy, I don't spend a lot of time, you know, particularly online or in other places, trying to convince people who have already made a decision and who have already told people to kiss their ass.0.99
00:38:00.120Right. There's I'm not organizing with you. Right. And so even though I vote Democrat now and all, you know, every four years, the larger party wants to, you know, woo back a certain voter of a certain persuasion.0.98
00:38:15.300And I'm like, I'm not organizing there. There's a limit. There's a ceiling, right? Whereas if we go to the places that we're not talking to, that we're not engaging, that we're not keeping up to date and hearing from them and making sure that they are involved in what's happening, you know, there is no ceiling there because there's a greater population there.
00:38:36.960And so what I always try to tell organizers is don't spend so much of your time combating what the other side is doing.
00:38:46.780And I don't mean like not litigating, agitating and all that stuff.
00:38:50.260I mean, you, you know, playing whack-a-mole on social media when you can be talking and engaging in your community, when you can be building generations on college campuses and high schools and things of that nature helps build the movement that we need.
00:39:08.920And right now, I feel like a lot of people, because we're stuck, right? And it's easy because you see all of this incoming and you want to defend, right? And there is a defense strategy. On the show right now, I'm doing what I call this porch light series.
00:39:28.380and just imagine you're leaving the porch light on for democracy
00:39:32.420and imagining what we want the next iteration of democracy to be.
00:40:20.660and particularly defend what's coming behind us
00:40:23.040so that they have a clear path to strike
00:40:26.500and to you know rebuild again but at the same time we need to gain ground because it wasn't we
00:40:32.980weren't satisfied with where we were you know what I mean so we need to push and gain greater ground
00:40:39.340as we're doing that as well so I try to encourage people in that and I know it's only a few of us
00:40:45.140right because everybody wants to be angry and mad and you know like this or whatever and calling
00:40:50.220you know calling people names and you know all that kind of stuff and there's space for that
00:40:54.360right? There is space for that. But at the same time, we have to be ready to strike when we need
00:40:59.720to rebuild this democracy. And it doesn't start with just one election of changing who
00:41:05.420will be in Congress or who will be in the White House next. It's going to take a generation or
00:41:10.300two to rebuild this democracy into something that actually works.
00:41:14.180Oof, you really said it. I have a, this is not even, was not even on the agenda that I wanted
00:41:19.460to ask you about, but you have such an encouraging worldview. My producer, Mike, and I got into a
00:41:25.660long, kind of dark discussion about this, and I want to see where you stand. I completely agree
00:41:31.420with you. It's not about any one election. It's not about who's in the White House. It's a longer
00:41:36.660game than that. However, I have this deep, deep foreboding feeling. The way that the administration
00:41:45.220is moving right now, in my opinion, they are not moving like people who expect that they will
00:41:52.000not be in the White House come four years from now. So I'm not like, well, I feel like when I
00:41:58.640say that people are like, they say, I understand it sounds paranoid and crazy. I guess I'm, I guess
00:42:04.400that's what I'm saying. I understand. But when it comes to like, what are you thinking for midterms?
00:42:08.520What do you, where do you think we will be at? Well, the thing is, is because I don't think of
00:42:12.680the elections as, I know we use the language, the most important election of our lifetime,
00:42:17.780but I don't think of them as these, you know, oh, we have this one chance here. And then if not,
00:42:24.560okay, well, we ain't got no, we got 18 months, we got to wait for 18 months so we can like make
00:42:30.080the change again, right? Those are certainly markers that we use along the way. But even in
00:42:36.900me taking helm of the NAACP New York State Conference. My plan goes through 2032, the next
00:42:43.540level of redistricting. Right. And so you're thinking about, like, how are you charting a
00:42:48.820path forward? So I would not be surprised if everything that they're doing, getting people
00:42:55.060comfortable and used to having a militarized presence in cities and in places so that they're
00:43:01.660also in place for election time. And so that sort of discourages people from turning out
00:43:08.380or something else nefarious happened. We've had multiple instances in this country where this
00:43:14.460has happened before. Again, I know people like to tease me about being a nerd, but like there's a
00:43:19.360reason like we just keep repeating the same things over and over again. So there's stuff for us to
00:43:23.920learn from that standpoint. But what I think about is as each new opportunity comes, how can I push
00:43:32.300forward? How do I push democracy forward? How do I ensure? Because for me, my history tells me that
00:43:39.860every fight and every organizing piece that we have done has pushed this country to be more of
00:43:46.640the democracy it said it wants to be. And so if you have that legacy as a collective people, as
00:43:52.420collective organizer, as collective Americans, right? So what is stopping me from saying,
00:43:58.000all right, so he's in the White House now, so Congress is now or whatever, right? What ground
00:44:02.460can we gain after the midterms? All right, what ground are we gaining, you know, when we go to
00:44:07.520municipal elections again? What ground are we gaining, you know, when we go to state elections
00:44:11.900again? What ground are we gaining, you know, when the presidential election process comes over again?
00:44:17.280And so if we think about it that way, rather than thinking about these elections as sort of these one-off opportunities to steer the car in a different direction and think about how can I specifically, you know, just turn the wheel a little bit, you know, further to that direction.
00:44:37.200Each opportunity we get, we can get to the destination.
00:49:44.400Jason Palladino from 404 reported the takedown, who picked it up after a grad student who
00:49:49.440researchers online extremism spotted it missing. So now if you go to that page, there's a bland
00:49:54.440little message that says, oh, the DOJ is reviewing its websites and materials in accordance with
00:49:59.840Trump's recent executive orders. I'm sure you'll remember that right after Trump took office,
00:50:03.820he signed in that order banning government agencies from using words like gender or DEI
00:50:08.400or diversity. And it was this like very big censorship campaign that tied up every federal
00:50:15.020agency, including NASA, in hours of like scrubbing perfectly normal language off of their websites.
00:50:22.020And so it's not shocking to me that a study like this would be targeted. One of the study's authors
00:50:26.520told 404 that he was not surprised, but he did point out that the research is still out there.
00:50:31.880If you want to read it, we will put it on in the show notes. But I do think the timing around us
00:50:38.140having this sort of national conversation about political violence, I find the timing very curious
00:50:44.280when Trump is going on TV and talking about how so-called radical leftist rhetoric is responsible
00:50:51.300for all political violence in this country. You know, you have J.D. Vance saying that he's going
00:50:55.380to use Kirk's death to crack down on leftist organizations and, you know, all of that. You
00:51:01.060have Elon Musk jumping in on X saying that he's going to fix Grock, Twitter's AI assistant,
00:51:06.360because it cited research showing that right-wing violence is more common. You know, it's this
00:51:10.560this real sort of getting in line behind this reality that the research could not be clearer
00:51:17.500is reality. And it's also that new because there was previous reports about the rise of white
00:51:25.100supremacy in the military, in police departments. I remember this because I remember it came out
00:51:33.480at around a time when we were at a Netroots conference talking to folks about it because
00:51:39.680I think it was also around the time when Black Lives Matter that was sort of really hot and, you know, people were engaged and no one was paying attention from that standpoint as well.
00:51:53.280It's never really died down. And I think you and I around the same age, you remember when there was like, you know, the skinheads and the chat rooms and stuff like that.
00:52:02.780I remember in college, you know, where people were organizing under, you know, around that in
00:52:08.000the early 1900s, as my daughter was. Did you ever see that tweet? It's like, I like, I told somebody
00:52:19.320I was working with a child and I told them I was I was born in the 1990s. And she said,
00:52:23.340were you a slave? Yes. You know, my my daughter does do that to my husband and I like will tell
00:52:30.460something about history or whatever um like we were watching a documentary about um voting rights
00:52:35.980and stuff and they show the march on the bridge and she was like mom are you there not the march
00:52:41.580across the bridge it's like black and white pictures of like malcolm x and also there's mom
00:52:48.240who's like mom well she was like will you go to marches and i'm just like oh it's your own kids
00:52:55.220But yeah, so it's never really, you know, died down and people find it. Obviously, we have the proliferation of the Internet, which allows people to find each other across the interwebs and sort of continue to, you know, go further down the rabbit hole and find, you know, things that sort of the confirmation bias, I think we talk about where it's like, I'm going to look for the things.
00:53:20.180And I have cousins who do the same thing, you know, and they're just only looking for the knowledge and information that further their point.
00:53:28.280And I'm like, dude, that's not research.
00:53:30.340You got to take in all of the context and all of the information and then form, you know, an argument.
00:53:36.580And you can't obviously be suffer from a lack of media literacy as well.
00:53:41.400And you can't just take at face value.
00:53:43.820I mean, Bridget, you can tell me something.
00:53:45.460I can listen to your podcast more often than not.
00:53:47.460i have my phone i'm like she made that up let me look at so you talk about the report i'm like
00:53:54.180she need to send me this report let me see what she's telling me yeah this is why i love podcasts
00:53:58.920because you can always just pause it and like google it i don't know you and i don't like you
00:54:02.460it's just like you just be saying randomness let me read it myself why don't you have that curious
00:54:07.480nature right like why do you listen to someone and it's just like oh well they said it on the
00:54:12.220internet they said it on the news and i'll be like who is they and what evidence and information you
00:54:16.460don't remember doing that as a child you know in class where it's just like you know tell me the
00:54:21.780facts before you tell me the you know your opinion on the thing tell me what happened first um are
00:54:27.340there multiple sources who are confirming this and you could see that as something not only from
00:54:31.880news and politics and medical and science information yay dame dash on the breakfast
00:54:37.600club talking about oh my god like something ain't nobody did no due diligence they just running
00:54:43.540headlines? That was, I watched that interview. That was, that's a whole other thing. I mean,
00:54:49.720I have many questions about what's up with him. I just was left with many, many questions about
00:54:55.040what is going on with him. But it's indicative of where we are, right? People will just say
00:54:59.260something. All of the stuff I say now, you may clip it and put it on and people are going to be
00:55:02.840like, yep, that's true. And I'm like, no, go read it and verify it. And if it's wrong, tell me it's
00:55:07.920wrong like so that i can fix it and sort of great like provide the greater context and information
00:55:13.900like that is the type of atmosphere we should be able to live in without being like let me tell
00:55:19.660you the 52 reasons why l joy williams was wrong in this video it's just like okay you're making
00:55:24.880this argument but you use this fact you use this thing whatever actually you know go read when i0.98
00:55:30.560just say stuff don't take my word for granted look it up read what's the read a book my fucking0.99
00:55:37.140read them. I remember that. Yeah, we're in, I mean, I talk about this all the time, but0.99
00:55:41.960it's a real media literacy crisis. And I, this is going to sound random, but I genuinely feel
00:55:48.460you could convince people of anything. If you put it, if you make an image on Canva in that bold,
00:55:55.360black and white text, that shade room text, you could say anything and people will be like, well,
00:55:59.640I saw it on an image that had bold, black and white text on the internet. They said it on the
00:56:04.120internet my teenager comes and she was like do you know she'll come in the kitchen do you know
00:56:09.100that so and so and so and then my husband and I would be like who said it and she was like it was
00:56:13.260on tiktok and I'm like okay but who said it she was like on tiktok I'm like but who on tiktok said
00:56:19.880it what is it like trying to get her in the habit of like thinking and trusting information did you
00:56:26.720look it up did you verify it or is it just tiktok said you know right it is we are we are in I mean0.97
00:56:34.600it's it's something I really do worry about like the generation coming the younger generation
00:56:39.740are they learning media literacy are they learning how to be media critical the way that
00:56:44.560you know I I was like a burnout in school when I still remember how to do some of this stuff and I
00:56:48.960worry that that's not being passed down the same way they are learning um to be critical what
00:56:54.920their learning is oh this is a right ring rag oh this is a left ring red this is you know so I can't
00:57:01.000trust anything that this says because George Soros pays for it or I can't trust this because
00:57:06.940you know ABC is part of the Sinclair you know what I mean so like it becomes that um and that
00:57:13.580is the extent of the general membership if Fox News didn't say it if you know MSNBC didn't say
00:57:20.140I had to take myself off of watching MSNBC on a regular basis because I'm just like, dang, ain't there some other news besides these same eight stories all day?
00:57:30.660Like, let me pull myself back, you know, and I went back to reading news.
00:57:36.440So I read news in the morning and even then listen to NPR through, you know, at two different points of the day.
00:57:41.800So, you know, don't miss like breaking news, something or whatever like that.
00:57:45.660But going back to reading is sort of using a different part of my brain.
00:57:49.200And I do that even as someone who consumes books and articles and magazines on a hyperactive rate.
00:57:57.500Yeah. So I did have a little bit of good news that I wanted to share in what has otherwise been sort of a dark stretch,
00:58:04.480which is Senators Tammy Baldwin and Lisa Murkowski just came together on a bipartisan bill to bring back the suicide prevention services for LGBTQ plus youth that the Trump administration had cut earlier this summer.
00:58:15.980So a little bit of backstory. In July, the administration pulled the plug on the LGBTQ plus line with the 988 crisis hotline.
00:58:24.200So that was part of the hotline that connected queer and trans youth in crisis with counselors that were specifically trained on how to understand and talk about their experiences.
00:58:32.340That loss was really devastating because we know that those youth are already at a much higher rate for things like suicide.
00:58:38.740And groups like the Trevor Project estimates that nearly two million young people seriously consider suicide every year.
00:58:44.320So this new bill would reestablish those services and then also make sure that they can't just be stripped away again.
00:58:51.200It's being backed by the Trevor Project and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, and it's moving to committee right now.
00:58:57.240And so I think this is very important, and I wanted to share it just as like a little bit of good news.
00:59:02.960You know, when Trump won the election in 2024, calls to the Trevor Project hotline spiked 700 percent, which I think really shows how much stress and fear and anxiety youth are carrying right now and how much they need support.
00:59:16.940And so it really it may be a small thing in the scheme of things, but having to be a bipartisan effort to bring this back, I think, is at least something right that like we're doing something to sort of support these youth.
00:59:29.280Yeah. And I think it was going to take not only legislators, you know, whether they be in Congress or the state and local level, trying to make sure that there is infrastructure in place, but also in communities. Right. And we have a track record of building the institutions and the infrastructure we need during times of crisis.
00:59:52.940And so, again, I want to empower people, you know, to create the spaces that they need and that are needed in our communities.
01:02:56.460And as I mentioned right now, I'm in a series between, you know, I started the first Sunday in September through to December, what I call the Porchlight Series, where we're leaving the line on democracy.
01:03:09.020And I'm asking you to imagine what democracy do you want to fight for and that we want in our future and giving you the agency and the tools to believe that we have the power to actually create that.
01:03:25.040So join us on Sunday mornings in Sunday Civics Classroom, because right now we're outside on the porch.
01:03:31.940Oh, they're going to leave a light on for you.
01:03:34.420Eljoy, thank you so much for being here.