Kanye West's new song; Elizabeth Holmes’ husband wants your blood; Elon's AI is undressing women; Alondra Nelson will not be complicit — NEWS ROUNDUP w Cristen Conger
00:10:20.480Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.0.98
00:10:24.920I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:10:29.380I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:10:36.920They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:10:40.880But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:10:44.340They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:10:47.980Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:10:55.760If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:11:02.640This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:11:14.820I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:11:21.940I'm going to have to look up this story.
00:11:25.120From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:11:31.860It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:11:39.020Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:11:48.560Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:12:17.560One of the project's stated goals was to permanently criminalize all pornography.
00:12:21.700And now Mike Lee, a Republican senator from Utah, has introduced a bill that would do exactly that.
00:12:27.380Lee recently introduced the Interstate Obscenity Definition Act, or IODA, which would effectively criminalize all pornography nationwide by legally redefining what it means to be obscene in a way that virtually includes all visual representations of sex.
00:12:43.460According to the bill, quote, a picture, image, graphic image file, film, videotape or other visual depiction of any media that, quote, appeals to the prurient interest of in nudity, sex or excretion would be considered criminal.
00:12:57.600So, like, people are pointing out that, like, that could mean Game of Thrones episodes, right?
00:13:02.420Yeah. I mean, also, it's been a long time since I took my mass comm law class.
00:13:08.280But I feel like we've kind of like constitutionally, Supreme Court wise, we've been around the block.
00:13:16.940He says obscenity is not protected by the First Amendment, but hazy and unenforceable legal definitions have allowed extreme pornography to saturate American society and reach countless children.
00:13:27.520Our bill updates the legal definition of obscenity for the Internet age.
00:13:30.940So this content can be taken down and its peddlers prosecuted.
00:13:34.100so one of the things that we talk about on the show a lot is like if when you hear someone using
00:13:41.120language that is like we need to do xyz to the internet to protect children your spidey senses
00:13:46.240should sort of tingle because that is exactly the language that people who want to restrict the
00:13:50.480internet use before taking some like draconian action because what happens when the powers that
00:13:55.460be decide that content related to the existence of trans folks or queer folks or any other kind
00:14:00.120of LGBTQ person is pornographic and thus needs to be like legislated off the internet. And it's
00:14:05.640peddlers put behind bars. You know, like most rational people, I also want to keep explicit
00:14:11.660content away from kids. But research is super clear that when you restrict the internet through
00:14:17.340things like verification laws that verify your age, or like laws where you have to show your
00:14:23.040government ID to access certain content, that is not effective. That does not effectively keep kids
00:14:28.280away from explicit content. So all you are really doing then is like setting the stage for extremists
00:14:34.320to have the power to legislate anything they don't like off of the internet. Exactly. And it's
00:14:39.580fascinating that it's the same group of people who are now pushing for an extreme kind of anti-porn
00:14:45.720ban while also celebrating social platforms, removing censorship. Exactly. It makes no sense.
00:14:56.100And it's one of those things that, like, if you follow the thread, their argument completely falls apart.
00:15:01.600So speaking of platform moderation and what is and is not allowed on platforms, I am so sorry, everybody.
00:15:09.520Folks who have been listening to the show for a while know that I had kind of a, like, Kanye West, like, me paying attention to him funeral where I was like, I'm leaving him in the past.
00:21:56.560OK, so speaking of things that are gross and horrifying.
00:22:02.060Let's check in with what's going on on X slash Twitter.
00:22:05.620If you're anything like me, you're probably like not spending a lot of time there.
00:22:08.580I do not blame you, but a little update as to what's going on on that platform.
00:22:12.360According to Kalina Kultai, a researcher at Bellingcat, users have been using Grok, which is X's, like, AI chatbot, to undress women in the comments of their posts.
00:22:26.280According to PCMag, while the chatbot rejects prompts for completely nude images, it does fulfill remove-her-clothes requests with AI-generated images of women in bikinis or lingerie.
00:22:37.440Grok's responses are public and appear as replies to the original prompts.
00:22:41.080uh pretty gross so like if i were to post something on x or twitter somebody could say
00:22:47.060remove her clothes and grok would serve up an image an ai generated image of whoever in a0.98
00:22:55.020bikini or lingerie it's just like it's just really fucked like there's no other way to put it and0.98
00:23:00.780it's like other ai chatbots don't do this right like other ai chatbots have guardrails against0.99
00:23:06.760this that grok does not yeah it seems like um grok is uh is he like he why am i gendering grok oh god0.63
00:23:15.160but you know grok's a guy he's a nasty little boy
00:23:20.060but it's especially unhinged though right because i was also seeing i've seen headlines as well0.92
00:23:28.760about like just wild kind of um like south african like wild racist kind of stuff being
00:23:39.760baked into grok yeah so we were talking about this um producer mike and i were talking about
00:23:44.600this before we got online i was like oh i was just reading about grok and he was like oh the
00:23:47.980south africa thing so basically elon musk who is south african was annoyed that grok was not serving
00:23:55.540up like enough racially inflammatory content about how they're bringing South African like
00:24:03.280white South Africans to the United States so I guess they over corrected because now when you
00:24:08.240ask rock anything it's like oh it's just like the oppression of the white South Africans like you0.74
00:24:12.420could be asking for a recipe and it's like oh are you also interested in the plight of white South
00:24:18.780africans like it's they they really the pendulum has swung in a in the other direction mike do i
00:24:25.140have i summarized that correctly yeah i think that's right i think they just like turned up
00:24:30.380the white africaners dial and it's like any question i saw somebody submit a haiku that was
00:24:37.400like had nothing to do with anything and it was like oh yes this is like the blood of the white0.90
00:24:43.060africaners like my god grok like settle down settle down grok oh so yeah honestly like i have1.00
00:24:55.300never heard anybody say a positive thing about grok uh yeah i don't think it's going well over0.99
00:25:00.940there so about the non-consensual like undressing of women you know when pointed to a post about this
00:25:10.440and asked about the guardrails that Grok has against non-consensual AI-generated explicit
00:25:16.220content, Grok responded with an apology and said, this incident highlights a gap in our safeguards
00:25:21.480which failed to block a harmful prompt, violating our ethical standards on consent and privacy.
00:25:26.720We recognize the need for stronger protections and are actively working to enhance our safety
00:25:30.580mechanisms, including better prompt filtering and reinforcement learning. We are also reviewing
00:25:35.340our policies to ensure clearer consent protocols. So like at least Grok knows what he's doing is
00:25:39.980wrong at least i really i should not be anthropomorphizing ai but i do it constantly in my
00:25:47.140head even though i shouldn't well in 2025 we are all at this point programmed to make a public
00:25:52.940apology make a make a formal apology a note tap yeah grok knows when called out like what the
00:26:00.020proper thing to do is just apologize very quickly via of you know a apology that sounds like very
00:26:05.260wordsmith. Something about this story gets me because I feel like it is exactly the kind of
00:26:11.240climate that makes social media and technology more generally a hostile space for women. And I
00:26:17.180think in 2025, most of us are using social media. It is just part of showing up in civic and public
00:26:24.280life is being online. And if anybody can use AI to undress you, to sexualize you when you do show
00:26:31.320up online we simply do not have an online landscape that would that that allows for women to like
00:26:36.660fully and safely participate in civic life and so i mean i am not showing up on x or twitter as a
00:26:42.240platform anymore but if i were and if other women are i think that like i can see why that would
00:26:47.760drive women off of these platforms and so these people who say so much they care about free speech1.00
00:26:52.380they care about like you know having a marketplace of ideas this is anti-free speech women are going0.59
00:26:57.640to not show up to these platforms and not, you know, make their make their voices heard on them1.00
00:27:03.040if the threat is them being like sexualized and undressed and violated in this way. So it's not
00:27:08.680only like a gross violation. It's also in my book, like very anti-democratic. Absolutely. Well, and
00:27:13.980the unsettling layer of it as well, that yes, Grok is a problem, but it is also such a problem
00:27:23.820that there are enough people wanting to train Grok to essentially like assault people yeah
00:27:31.900and I guess like that's my point like that's like why I don't like to anthropomorphize
00:27:36.340technology like this is because like it's learning from us so like it's built by people it's trained
00:27:41.380by people that learns from people uh all of the biases and gross things that that we know that
00:27:47.580people have like it is it is just reflecting that back and like turbo charging it and so
00:27:53.740yeah it really does reflect the fact that like this technology is being trained on the worst
00:28:01.300human impulses and that is a problem and and not only is that like a tech problem it's like a like
00:28:06.400an us problem like a people problem if we can't figure out how to you know how to have a more
00:28:12.740equitable landscape how to not use technology to just reinforce and reinforce these like
00:28:19.280patriarchal attitudes about women and and violate women we're never going to get anywhere so it's
00:28:24.160like it's like both a tech problem and a like human problem i guess we got to buy grok a copy
00:28:29.520of your book come on grok get on ladylike grok it's a it's a gender neutral term yeah
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00:29:32.840when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent
00:29:40.700my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart
00:29:46.740and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying
00:29:54.380shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:30:01.860I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.0.89
00:30:06.320I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:30:13.940They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:30:17.840But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:30:21.300They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:30:24.420Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:30:33.360If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:30:39.300This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:30:51.780I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:30:58.880I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:31:02.320From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:31:08.420It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:31:15.940Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:31:25.500Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:31:39.500all right so speaking of things that are infuriating me i and also sort of inspiring me
00:31:46.760i guess i need to talk about alondra nelson alondra nelson for folks who don't know she is
00:31:51.460incredible i have been lucky enough to like hear her speak and she is really phenomenal she has a
00:31:56.400very long and storied career in public service she was the first black person and the first ever
00:32:01.500woman of color to lead the white house office on science and technology policy she's a very
00:32:06.900accomplished scientist and professor. In 2023, she was nominated by the Biden administration
00:32:11.040to the UN high-level advisory body on AI. Her list of contributions to public interest and science
00:32:17.360could go on and on and on. I could talk about her all day. She's phenomenal. Shout out to her.
00:32:21.960Well, this week, she resigned from the National Science Board and the Library of Congress0.84
00:32:26.840Scholars Council, citing creeping authoritarianism. And I want to talk a bit about what she said
00:32:33.080drove her to these resignations. One, because I think coming out publicly the way that she has
00:32:38.840is really brave, and it comes with tons of risk, especially right now. I haven't really seen this
00:32:44.260story talked about in the way that I wish it was being talked about, because I think absolutely
00:32:48.900everybody should read what she has to say. I'll put the link to the full piece in the show notes.
00:32:54.240But I also think it highlights what we all lose when voices like Nelson's are pushed out of public
00:33:00.260service. We all benefit from having voices who are critical, who ask tough questions. When those
00:33:07.200voices are included in the conversation, all of our lives can improve. And when those voices are
00:33:12.840pushed out and silenced, we all lose out. And so, yeah, I think that her coming out publicly with
00:33:22.000what she saw and why she's leaving is really important. So do you know anything about her
00:33:27.980work? Or had you heard this story? I was not familiar with her. But it's, it's tragic to
00:33:35.480lose someone like that, who also I mean, just the amount of knowledge, like institutional
00:33:42.120knowledge that she possesses, like when that one person just walks out the door like that. It's,
00:33:47.740I mean, yeah, it's gross how many people are being forced to, yeah, just walk away.
00:33:55.480yeah and i mean i live in washington dc where a lot of federal workers live not all but a lot
00:34:01.380of federal workers live in this area and i have been covering it for another podcast i work on
00:34:06.500called citycast dc it's just we all lose out like it it really is we all lose out for no reason
00:34:16.740it's not saving any money we could we could do a whole episode on this but like for all of the like
00:34:22.240puffery that Elon Musk talked about like fraud and waste it we have we the deficit is up and
00:34:28.740when you fire somebody illegally and you have to pay them severance that you didn't think you're
00:34:32.580gonna have to pay or you have to like fund a lawsuit or something we have not saved any money
00:34:36.220right so like it's like we're shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason so first what is the
00:34:40.740national science board uh the entity that she was one of the entities she was resigning from
00:34:44.980so the national science board of the united states establishes policies of the national
00:34:48.680Science Foundation, which is one of the biggest and most important funders of scientific research
00:34:52.940in our country. The National Science Board also serves as an independent policy advisory body to
00:34:58.000the president and Congress on science and engineering research and education issues.
00:35:01.800Basically, it supports all non-medical science research in the United States. So kind of like
00:35:07.260NIH, the National Institute of Health, that is the health and medical counterpart of the National
00:35:12.480science foundation. And basically, it is why I am talking to you about technology and the internet
00:35:20.800on a podcast, because if it was not for this board, we would not have the internet. It is
00:35:25.900important. So her piece in time explaining her decision to resign isn't just maddening because
00:35:32.300this accomplished person is being pushed out of government, although, yes, that. It's also
00:35:36.660maddening because it shows how much the Trump administration is attacking and gutting these
00:35:41.700organizations that technology and scientific advancement really rely on i was watching this
00:35:47.520uh it's like a side frustration i was watching this podcast with pete budajeg and he was he's
00:35:53.340been on these like podcast bro pod type podcast recently and there was one where he was basically
00:36:00.640explaining to the world's stupidest podcast bro that the internet would not exist and like the
00:36:06.660iPhone would not exist without the government, because it was essentially a project of the0.97
00:36:11.660government in collaboration with researchers and universities, why we have the internet at all.
00:36:17.340And it really, him having to explain that really revealed that like, some people just don't know
00:36:24.620or don't think about or have not been taught about where research and scientific and technological
00:36:30.140advances come from in this country. And that if we didn't have research, like funded research,
00:36:35.820if we didn't have universities, if we didn't have government, these things that we take for
00:36:40.100granted, like the internet, would not exist. We would not be, like, we would be a completely
00:36:44.540different country. And I would argue a worse country if not for these things. For so long,
00:36:49.680the US has led the world in scientific discovery and technological innovation and, like, improved
00:36:54.720our lives and drove economic prosperity. And it is just depressing as hell to watch Trump
00:36:59.640throw all of this away because it's woke or whatever, and then watch people who do not
00:37:04.860really get it, cheer it on, and not realize that you are cheering on something that is going to
00:37:09.020make all of our lives so much worse. So I think everybody should read her piece in time explaining
00:37:15.860her decision to resign, but I want to share a couple of pieces of it because it really,
00:37:19.420I thought, was so perfectly put. So she says that initially she planned to stay in government,
00:37:24.680but at a certain point that kind of just became impossible. She writes,
00:37:28.480perseverance has its limits, the erosion of these institutions' integrity, and the growing
00:37:32.640realization that it is impossible to fulfill their missions in good faith has made the cost of
00:37:37.220continuing untenable. That is why I must step away from my work with two federal institutions that I
00:37:42.080care deeply about. In both of these roles, over the past few years, I've been asked to serve on
00:37:46.740diverse bodies that offer guidance about how the executive and legislative branches can be stewards
00:37:51.060of knowledge and create structure to enable discovery, innovation, and ingenuity. In the case
00:37:55.600of the National Science Board, this ideal has dissolved so gradually, yet so completely, that I
00:38:00.960barely noticed its absence until confronted with its hollow simulacrum. And yeah, that really,
00:38:07.860I feel like that really just packs a punch of how difficult it would be. Because when all of
00:38:16.480this started happening, I was someone who was like, federal workers should just stick it out.
00:38:20.300We need their voices, like make them fire you, blah, blah, blah. And I still sort of feel that
00:38:25.300way but I never really thought about what it would be like to continue to have your name
00:38:31.320as the overseer of a board that its mission had been so hollow that it was just like fake like
00:38:38.700how difficult that would be yeah yeah once your job becomes like enacting the kinds of draconian
00:38:47.100policies as well like yeah it's it's enraging it is and she calls out like just the general0.98
00:38:57.560attacks on knowledge that this administration has pushed forth writing this hollowing out is
00:39:03.160not just about governance in the abstract it has material consequences for which research questions
00:39:07.960get asked which data sets get produced which knowledge gets produced and which perspectives
00:39:12.620shape our understanding of pressing societal challenges. It has consequences for the integrity
00:39:17.360of knowledge itself. And I think that is so true that, you know, again, I feel like it's easy to
00:39:23.520take for granted that there are smart people asking the questions that are going to lead to
00:39:27.700scientific advancements, right? Like there are people who are solving problems and challenges
00:39:33.020that somebody like me might not, that have not even been revealed to somebody like me. And thank
00:39:37.440god somebody's working on it like what do we get when those people are attacked and pushed out of
00:39:42.840the important work they've been doing right and all of their research funding drained like it
00:39:48.680also seems like part of this an extension of the whole like trumpian mentality and like conservative
00:39:56.860mentality of running the business running the government like it's a business like it's a
00:40:02.580corporation so if something is not immediately turning you a profit then it's out the door like
00:40:08.840it's just like no things don't doesn't work that way and that's just i mean like that's just not
00:40:15.340how we get innovation like like so many innovations take a long time to reveal themselves or like
00:40:20.300take some collaboration or like yeah they're slow burns and like thank god somebody stuck it out
00:40:25.920to see them to the end because it's like then it then there was this great thing or this great
00:40:30.060development that helped everybody like it just it's it's just not how it's just not how any of
00:40:35.340this works so in addition to resigning from her position at the national science board she's also
00:40:40.120resigning from her position on the library of congress scholars council which is like a body
00:40:44.500of distinguished individuals convened by the librarian of congress to advise on matters
00:40:48.740related to scholarship at the library of congress so y'all might have seen recently that the librarian
00:40:54.160of Congress, Dr. Carla Hayden, was recently fired, really for no good reason.
00:41:01.480That's, okay, I had missed that news. And I, I mean, I'm not shocked because she is a Black1.00
00:41:08.960woman. And it seems like every Black woman in the federal government, you know, has a target on her0.89
00:41:13.720back. So exactly that. Nelson points out that in the email dismissing her, she was so this is0.98
00:41:20.840someone with a PhD, right? She's Dr. Carla Hayden. The email dismissing her was addressed to
00:41:25.480Carla, just her first name, not Dr. Hayden, which is like insult to injury. And importantly,
00:41:32.600it sounds like Trump just like fired this woman on his own. He was not acting on behalf of the
00:41:38.220lawmakers who oversee the Library of Congress. And the White House press secretary said that
00:41:42.560she was being fired, quote, for things she had done at the Library of Congress in the pursuit
00:41:47.320of DEI and putting inappropriate books in the library for children. So I want to play just a
00:41:51.960quick bit of audio of that press conference. Question, the president fired the Librarian
00:41:57.620of Congress. Why did he choose to do that? We felt she did not fit the needs of the American
00:42:02.040people. There were quite concerning things that she had done at the Library of Congress in the
00:42:06.260pursuit of DEI and putting inappropriate books in the library for children. And we don't believe
00:42:11.960that she was serving the interests of the American taxpayer well. So she has been removed from her
00:42:16.240position and the president is well within his rights to do that. Has she visited the Library
00:42:20.600of Congress? That's what I'm saying. Like, think about this for one second. Does she think that
00:42:25.880the Library of Congress lends out books to kids? Like, like, genuinely, does she think that? It
00:42:32.400doesn't lend out books to anyone. Like, its job is to house all the published books in the United
00:42:37.500States. So like, first of all, the way that I could never, obviously, this would never happen.
00:42:41.720But like, I just cannot imagine sitting in a press conference and hearing somebody say that and not being like a bullshit or even just asking a follow up.
00:42:50.280But I guess like who would be asking the follow up at this point?0.68
00:42:59.820And I think you're exactly right that like and Nelson clocks this in her piece.
00:43:05.880She says that, like, the reason why they pushed her out is because they are just, like, pushing out Black women in public service under whatever pretense they invent, and that's that.
00:43:15.980Like, they don't even have to have a real answer that makes any sense in reality whatsoever.0.98
00:43:19.880Nelson writes, the ouster of Hayden is part of a broader pattern of political targeting of women and Black public servants across the federal government.
00:43:29.040And I wonder, too, if part of Trump taking it, like firing her himself and the way it sounds like it went down, it seems like there's also like a special, like a real distaste for anyone who was the first in their position, too, which I believe Carla Harden was.