00:00:49.980If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:00:55.400Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:04.060Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:02:04.320I believe Black women are the future of the Internet.
00:02:08.080Much of the work to create that future, a safer, more inclusive one, has been built by Black women.
00:02:14.120But we need to acknowledge the sad reality that that work doesn't always come easy.
00:02:19.100For the Black women trying to build better platforms and push for changes in systems and institutions,0.98
00:02:24.320that work comes at a huge personal cost.0.99
00:02:27.400This is something that tech policy expert Ifoma Uzoma knows all too well.
00:02:32.180My full name is Ifoma Ozoma, and I'm the founder and principal of the consulting firm that's called Earthseed, which is actually named after the community that Octavia Butler created in Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talent.
00:02:49.360In Octavia Butler's novel, Parable of the Sower, Earthseed is a community based around the idea that God has changed.
00:02:56.920It's all about the future and the possibilities of what can be.
00:03:01.320And knowing Ifoma, this name is no accident.
00:03:58.980My first week on the job, I pushed our GC and our trust and safety team and the content policy team to make the decision that we ended up making on Alex Jones and removing him entirely from the platform at a time.
00:04:17.640This was in 2018 at a time when he was not really being addressed by any platform.
00:04:22.580And the argument I made at that point was first that he already violated a lot of the policies that we had, his content. And two important things. One, that if you're acting on misinformation, at that point, no other platform had a misinformation policy other than like Medium.
00:04:40.780And my point was, well, if we're making decisions because we know content is misinforming, we have a misinformation policy, we need to just write it and be clear and stand in our convictions and post it on the site.
00:04:56.000A few researchers will pick it up, others may pick it up.
00:04:58.960Most people won't, but I do think when you're making decisions, you need to be transparent about what those decisions are and why.
00:05:05.600And so from there and the policy that came out of that, then I was able to push for a lot of the health misinformation work that I did, which started with getting a landscape analysis.
00:05:18.580That's something that I feel has been missing from a lot of platforms.
00:05:22.340If you don't know what's on your platform and others don't know, how do you address it properly?
00:05:28.100If you don't know who it's impacting, because misinformation is not an equal opportunity harm.
00:05:35.320It's mostly targeted at people of color and at women.
00:05:39.060And when you're looking at health misinformation, it's especially stark.
00:05:43.620And so having that information, I was then able to push for things that I was retaliated against because of.
00:05:50.720But that's a whole other set of stories.
00:05:53.920Moderation on a platform like Pinterest is no easy thing.
00:05:56.560But IFOMA championed moderation policies that targeted how savvy disinformers actually can be.0.54
00:06:03.080For instance, there's huge amounts of inaccurate content about abortion targeting the Black community.
00:06:08.480They use rhetoric like Black genocide and accuse Planned Parenthood of wanting to abort Black babies,0.68
00:06:13.460using imagery of Black moms and babies to target Black folks.0.94
00:06:17.020But there's also huge overlap in the anti-choice movement and the white supremacist movement.
00:06:21.920So some of this content is actually produced by white supremacist groups trying to target the Black community.
00:06:27.740Ifoma's ability to build out thoughtful moderation policies around this kind of complex content
00:06:32.120was bolstering Pinterest's public reputation as a company who stood apart as an early model of what it looked like
00:06:37.800to build safer and more ethical platforms.
00:07:10.700With a lot of peace that karma is real and it will come back to get them.
00:07:17.320But also, that was one of the reasons why I had to go public about the retaliation that I faced when I raised pay discrimination concerns about the doxing that I experienced from a white male supremacist who happened to also work at Pinterest after I pushed for decisions to be made around white supremacist content that had existed on the platform.
00:07:42.940There are a lot of intersections, as you know, with misinformation. And so even though Pinterest was most well known because of the health misinformation work that I did, we took a lot of steps to address other types of misinformation.
00:07:57.420And where those two, I guess, circles and a Venn diagram met was on an anti-choice site that had been posting misinformation around birth control and access to abortion services being targeted specifically at Black communities to push a eugenics agenda from the pro-choice movement.
00:08:25.560And the ways in which the misinformation aligned, I pushed internally that this is why we have to look at misinformation in general.
00:08:38.400We have to look at the specific ways in which it harms people.
00:08:42.240But if you just take a, well, this is an opinion point of view, then you're missing that this is both health misinformation and it's also political.
00:08:50.760because it's targeted at a group using language and using imagery
00:08:56.300because they're very good at using images of Black mothers
00:08:59.800and Black children on these websites0.97
00:09:02.240that are run entirely by white supremacists0.95
00:09:04.920that you may miss some of the context0.97
00:09:19.220you're not necessarily primed to be hit with content that could be racially charged or
00:09:24.320politically charged or be delivering health misinformation. You know, your guard is down.
00:09:29.440And that's why it was particularly harmful. And that was my, even though the platform had
00:09:34.660never really done anything public in the policy space, was certainly not known by any of the
00:09:41.360reporters I ended up working with about policy decisions. One of the reasons why I felt so
00:09:48.260strongly about this, is it's a platform that was going towards IPO at the time that I'd started.
00:09:55.740So I started pre-IPO. And part of the messaging around that is we're a platform with eight and
00:10:01.46010 moms in the US on here. Lots of women use the platform around the world and women are often1.00
00:10:08.400decision makers when it comes to financial choices for their households. So it's a great platform for
00:10:14.100advertisers. But at the same time, that's what made it a prime target for misinformation purveyors,
00:10:20.100because you have a captive audience, folks who are not attuned to looking for mis- and
00:10:27.740disinformation, because they're not on Facebook, they're not on Twitter, they're in a place that
00:10:32.000feels safe to them. And so they're the perfect opportunity to then hawk whatever goods you're
00:10:40.220selling, a point that I made often, because I'd get invited by the WHO, CDC, and others to talk
00:10:47.560about this health misinformation work, that they had not thought about as much as the financial
00:10:54.340incentives that are tied to a lot of misinformation. Whether it's Alex Jones selling his
00:11:00.100nonsense t-shirts and supplements and whatever else, these people are scam artists. That's their0.98
00:11:05.180number their number one job is scamming folks they use the values that people have they use
00:11:11.500the fears that people have to then sell their products but at the end of the day these are
00:11:17.200spammers and scammers and so you need to also be looking at what it is that they're trying to push
00:11:24.080on your platform for almost every single health misinformation site they were selling supplements
00:11:29.900So if you would address dangerous supplements on the platform as spam, why would you not consider this at the same level of harm to the platform and ultimately harm to legitimate advertisers?
00:11:44.540I think that we're so used to thinking about scammers as people, you know, selling fake Gucci on the street. And like, no, people can scam online and they're misleading you in order to get you to buy whatever bullshit product they're hawking.0.93
00:12:00.080I would actually argue that the person selling the Gucci handbag that's fake, that's not harmful. You get a cheaper bag. If it's made well, it looks pretty good. Like you get a deal, they get a deal. Gucci doesn't get a deal, but what do they need one for?0.95
00:12:16.000Um, but that's not harmful in the same way that telling parents, and especially at the
00:12:23.020point at which most parents make decisions about vaccines, uh, in the last trimester
00:12:27.500before they have the kid that they, instead of getting a vaccine for their child, which
00:12:34.880will save their child's life, they should instead go buy your vitamin K supplement.
00:12:39.180That is so harmful and dangerous in a way that we need to take it more seriously.
00:13:13.140And I think, yeah, the person scamming fake Gucci belts on the street, other than not giving Gucci more money, which, frankly, I'm not really that mad at, you know, we have to look at the kind of harm that these platforms can really be responsible for pushing on communities who are oftentimes already marginalized or underrepresented.
00:13:33.220The day of the insurrection, as pro-Trump mobs swarmed the Capitol, one of whom was wearing a shirt reading Camp Auschwitz, Microsoft-owned tech firm GitHub fired a Jewish employee for posting, stay safe, homies, there's Nazis about, in a company Slack channel.
00:13:50.900The company eventually reversed their decision and apologized to the employee after an investigation.
00:13:56.900But even still, it establishes a pretty concerning dynamic, one where marginalized employees are punished for correctly identifying white supremacists.
00:14:08.260You were actually punished for speaking up about white supremacists.
00:14:11.440Yeah, and not only punished, I was personally targeted.
00:14:13.800So the story I was referring to earlier, the white supremacist colleague who wasn't someone I worked with closely, but worked on the engineering side of trust and safety, saw a message that I posted in exactly the right place for me to post it.
00:14:31.560It wasn't a general conversation area, but I posted that a pretty popular white supremacist
00:18:32.360when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent
00:18:40.220my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart
00:18:46.260and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying
00:18:53.900shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:19:01.380I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.0.89
00:19:05.840I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:19:13.460They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:19:17.360But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:19:20.820They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:19:23.940Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:19:32.880If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:19:38.820This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:19:51.300I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:19:58.400I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:20:01.840From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:20:07.940It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:20:15.460Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:20:25.020Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:39.800In an earlier episode of There Are No Girls on the Internet, we explored how the racial justice group Color of Change advocated for Pinterest to change their policies around slave plantations that were being advertised as romantic wedding venues on the platform.
00:20:53.380The company was widely celebrated for this change, which was led by eFOMA, but that didn't keep them from retaliating against her for it.
00:21:00.100Later on that same year, Color of Change had come to me because I was the liaison with outside groups, academics, and civil society on content safety issues.
00:21:11.480They had come to me sharing that they were still seeing slave plantations pop up as wedding venues and suggestions for weddings.
00:21:20.040If you know Pinterest or you know someone who uses it, the number one use of the platform might be planning a wedding or preparing for some sort of celebration.0.98
00:21:28.820And I agreed with them. It's completely inappropriate that the platform would be pushing concentration camps, which is what they were, and torture sites as a celebration venue.0.74
00:21:41.980And so I brought it to our content safety team with my recommendation, shared exactly what Color of Change had shared with me.
00:21:50.300And then I got pushback from the head of that team, particularly the head of content policy, who happens to still be there and still speaking on behalf of the company.
00:22:02.520What I later found out was that she was married on a plantation.
00:22:07.040that she never shared that in all of the pushback that I got, but she ended up working with my
00:22:13.600manager who had already been retaliating against me to ding me on my performance review. So even
00:22:21.400though Pinterest ended up doing exactly what I recommended, ended up getting praised in 40 plus0.94
00:22:28.040headlines because of the decision to stop promoting slave plantations and the decisions that I had
00:22:34.500pushed to be made, I was dinged on my performance review, which affected my pay.
00:22:40.640Wow. First of all, the reveal that this woman had her own, I mean, yikes.
00:24:49.760But I would like to just do my job, get paid fairly and not be put in danger for for doing the right thing for a company.
00:24:58.980I mean, something like half, more than half of the articles that were written about Pinterest in the month before the public offering, which happened in April of 2019, referenced my work.
00:25:14.660So not only did my work have value to the actual users of the platform, end up pushing Facebook and others to have to respond about why they weren't addressing health misinformation, particularly around vaccines.
00:25:28.060And remember, that was during a different health issue, a measles outbreak, measles outbreaks on the East and West Coast.
00:25:35.020Uh, so not only did it have that sort of impact, which is a slam dunk if you're in a policy space,
00:25:41.800but it also had material benefit to the company in the form of the IPO. And I still was not
00:25:50.320treated fairly. Yeah. And the company still hasn't actually acknowledged that anything they did in
00:25:57.440my case was wrong. You seem like someone who has a lot of peace for how horribly you were treated.
00:26:32.420And then also, I'm a student of history and political science. None of this is new. What I'm dealing with is not new. It's not unique to my situation. Does it suck? Yes. Has it been miserable? Yes. I've paid physical consequences for it because my actual health was impaired for the two plus years I was in a legal fight with them.
00:26:58.340But, like, I'm good at the end of the day.
00:27:01.880I'm at peace with every single decision I've made.
00:27:04.380I've never lied about what I experienced there.
00:27:07.480And so when they're out here lying about what they did to me and getting called out on lies, that is enough for me.
00:27:16.940Ifoma publicly resigned from Pinterest.
00:27:19.440This past summer, when racial justice protests were happening all over the globe and brands were rushing to put out statements in support for Black Lives Matter,
00:27:27.020she tweeted, I'm an alum of Yale, Google, Facebook, Washington Post Tech, etc., and recently decided
00:27:34.140to leave Pinterest, which just declared solidarity with Black Lives Matter. What a joke. As a Black
00:27:39.660woman, seeing Pinterest's middle-of-the-night Black Employees Matter statement made me scratch
00:27:44.420my head after I'd just fought for a full year to be paid and leveled fairly. A year in which I was
00:27:50.100doxed by a white male colleague, he shared my cell phone number, my photo, and my name with a violently
00:27:55.100racist, misogynistic part of the internet, followed by a dangerously inadequate response
00:27:59.600from Pinterest. I continued to serve as the leader and spokesperson for Pinterest's biggest public
00:28:04.260policy wins, kept all of the above quiet for, quote, professionalism in the hope that Pinterest
00:28:10.020would do the right thing. Instead, they doubled down on retaliation. After IFOMA left, Pinterest's
00:28:17.220former COO, Francois Brouwer, who was white, accused Pinterest of gender discrimination.
00:28:23.820In December, Pinterest paid Brouwer $22.5 million to settle her lawsuit.
00:28:29.360She says she was encouraged to speak out against the discrimination she faced at Pinterest
00:28:33.000after IFOMA and Erica Shimizu Banks, another Black former Pinterest employee, spoke out first.
00:28:42.960If I remember correctly, you didn't even get a year of severance from Pinterest.
00:28:46.600That's correct, and laid the groundwork.
00:28:49.720She was not going to speak up publicly.
00:28:51.480And actually in the Medium post where she didn't reference us when she first went public, but she herself said that women had come to her over the course of her career and she actually had not been a helpful ally to other women.
00:29:07.180So I think she said everything. But yeah, no, I what was crazy about that situation is people got to see in real time what it means to lead a movement and then be left out of whatever progress comes.
00:29:22.360I mean, when you think about Me Too, who has Me Too actually benefited, if not white women? Maybe in a sense, all women, but it is most benefited white women, and yet it was started by Tarana Burke, a black woman.
00:29:38.480so this is not it's not new it's not I didn't speak up because I expected them to do the right
00:29:46.120thing I from the jump expected them not I expected them to denigrate my name my experience which
00:29:54.120they've done all of that and then not to pay me what they owe me but seeing it all happen
00:30:01.380in front of everyone I think was a lesson not only for the folks who were watching it and just
00:30:09.000expecting that the right thing would happen but then also some of the reporters who worked on
00:30:13.360the story and were the very first ones to reach out and be like how is it possible that you like
00:30:19.960I literally remember talking to you and then talking to her several months later you are the
00:30:26.420reason why she came forward you are the reason why she had a strong case and then this happens1.00
00:30:32.340yeah for better or for worse it always seems that black women we are the ones build like
00:30:39.840we are the ones building and then other people are the ones who are benefiting and I think I
00:30:43.880see that in politics I see that in tech I see that in so many different it just seems to be
00:30:50.040you know i i at this point it almost you know it is what it is but like it that seems to be
00:30:57.240our lot on this on this earth like building things that we then don't get to to use ourselves right
00:31:04.720like i think it was um this writer clarissa brooks who once wrote like i as a black woman
00:31:09.880i don't want my back to be used as a bridge to a world i'll never see right i feel like i feel like
00:31:15.600that is our lot. And I see it particularly in tech, but in so many different avenues.
00:31:21.660Yep. And that's why even though this was painful, personally painful, of course, to have been the
00:31:28.100one who experienced all of this and then have someone else benefit from it, it was instructive
00:31:34.160for everyone to see it and to see the timeline and how quickly and the different way in which
00:31:39.620they responded to her. And then also, I think it was a helpful lesson for people who considered
00:31:46.140themselves allies to see as well. Because there were a lot of people who think of themselves as
00:31:53.500allies who saw it and were like, wait, what? How is it possible that this is happening? This happens
00:31:59.600all of the time. You just don't usually see the dollar amount that's attached to the progress
00:32:05.380that certain people get and others do not.
00:33:42.220Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.0.98
00:33:46.340I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:33:51.120I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:33:58.180They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:34:02.640But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:34:06.100They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:34:09.700Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:34:18.160If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:34:24.100This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:34:36.560I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:34:43.680I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.
00:34:46.800from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments
00:34:51.700nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling
00:34:58.240characters and that is the trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart
00:35:03.520pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much
00:35:08.280you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever
00:35:14.740you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Let's get right back into it. I do have this
00:35:26.640feeling that there is this underlying assumption that Black women, like tech and the internet and0.97
00:35:33.900all of these domains, it's like not our rightful domain. So we are not able to expect experiences0.99
00:38:16.960And the choice is not on the side of safety.
00:38:19.060I would argue that if it's legal, consenting, adult pornography, that is way less harmful to
00:38:26.680randomly encounter on a platform than health misinformation or Nazi content.
00:38:32.020You have to ask them questions about priorities. You really do.
00:38:35.060Yep. And the priorities are clear in all of our experiences on these platforms.
00:38:40.040I think a lot of Black women on the internet have just come to internalize this idea that
00:38:43.800when it comes to experiences online or on technology or on the internet,
00:38:47.380we just cannot expect to have experiences that feel safe. And I want to get us to a place where
00:38:53.520we can rethink the kinds of experiences that we actually can expect from the internet and from
00:38:57.920tech spaces. I agree. And that's the basis of all the work that I have done, the work that I'm doing
00:39:03.600now through my consulting firm on tech accountability, whether it's in the health
00:39:09.320misinformation space, or whether it's on the organizing side and providing protections for
00:39:14.580whistleblowers. And I think it's a conversation that it's unfortunate that we have to bear the
00:39:20.600burden of since we're the people who are harmed by it. But even just a few days ago, I was part
00:39:27.660of a conversation on Clubhouse around content moderation and around the decisions that
00:39:34.860platforms made to deplatform Donald Trump. And before we went into that conversation,
00:39:39.500I sent a note to everyone on the panel saying clubhouse is a place that I am not
00:39:45.200frequenting by choice because black women are often targeted and people use very loud dog
00:39:53.460whistles, basically just short of using the N word and using straight up misogynistic language.
00:39:59.060But there's a ton of that going on. And I put the onus on everyone on the panel to if that
00:40:07.020happened in the course of our conversation from anyone from the audience to not make it be my
00:40:13.380responsibility to be the only one to say something and every single one was was great and said
00:40:18.980absolutely of course but that should be the way that we're setting up conversations it shouldn't
00:40:25.360be the responsibility of the person who is most likely to be harmed to say like hey i hate to be
00:40:32.580the one to bring the mood down, but this could happen. So can we please watch out for it?
00:40:37.920God, I have been that person a thousand times. And it's kind of like what you were saying.
00:40:44.280It just sucks. Like you, you want to, you want to do your job and be paid what you're owed for0.98
00:40:49.460doing that work. I feel that black women are just not often afforded the ability to just do your1.00
00:40:55.740work and keep your head down. It's like, you have to take on all this often unpaid, might I add,1.00
00:41:00.000extra labor, extra energy, extra everything just to exist and do your job and put your message
00:41:07.360out there. Really, it is exhausting. I know exactly that feeling of like, oh God, I'm going
00:41:12.640to have to be the person that raises this again. And like, everyone's going to groan.
00:41:17.700I just know that feeling and it sucks. Yeah, it does.0.88
00:41:22.380what do you think platforms or policy policy folks or anybody who has power decision makers
00:41:32.080what should folks be doing to keep this and misinformation off of platforms i think it's
00:41:38.820great that the incoming administration is uh passing the bar that was on the ground from the
00:41:45.820Trump administration for diversity. And so at least they've cleared that low bar and standard,
00:41:53.380but I am not seeing enough, um, black women in positions of leadership when it comes to1.00
00:42:01.600misinformation and tech policy specifically. Um, I was encouraged by the science. I think
00:42:10.400some sort of science-focused department within the administration that was announced recently
00:42:19.040that Alondra Nelson will be on. That's incredible. But on the tech side, it cannot just be pulling
00:42:26.800the expertise of people like Eric Schmidt and other white tech executives to then reform the0.56
00:42:34.160same industry that they've made billions off of. That's just not how it works. That's not how it
00:42:40.040should work. And I think it's important to pull academics, but you also need practitioners
00:42:45.400who have experienced things on the inside of these platforms to be informing the decisions
00:42:52.180and any regulation or reform that comes as a result. So much of the infrastructure of what
00:42:59.280we rely on to make the internet safer and better, so people who are fighting disinformation and
00:43:04.880misinformation have been for a long time, so much of that infrastructure is Black women.
00:43:08.920What is it like to know that we have such a big role in doing a lot of the work that
00:43:16.840is making the internet safer and better for everybody?
00:43:20.820I mean, I, it's tough because on the one hand, when we, when progress is made that we push
00:43:30.820for everyone benefits and often we benefit the least.0.51
00:43:35.560And so it is it's just a role that many black women have taken on to protect themselves and our communities.0.85
00:43:45.420On the other hand, I don't blame any black women who are like, you know what?
00:43:49.740This is not my fight. This is not my battle. I'm tired.1.00
00:43:53.320I'm just trying to live during a pandemic. I'm trying to feed my kids.
00:43:57.240I'm trying to feed myself. I'm trying to take a damn nap.1.00
00:44:00.160Like I ascribe wholeheartedly to the NAP ministry and the work that the NAP ministry has been doing, because I think sometimes we have to say, you know what, I told you so, now I'm going to rest. That's it. I'm done. I'm done. I'm bowing out.0.99
00:44:16.260And so I allow the space for that at any point, while also hoping that when Black women say, you know what, this is work that I want to do, that we're uplifted and we're empowered.
00:44:28.560The flip side of that is making sure that allies or supposed allies are not them saying, oh, my gosh, you're so good at this, you need to be the one leading it.
00:44:37.240no no uh after uh the fifth and the results in georgia when everyone is posting about and not
00:44:45.620black women because black women were not doing this but when everyone else was posting about1.00
00:44:49.780what stacy abrams needs to be doing no if she wants to go to a spa for the next month for the0.94
00:44:55.720next decade that is her decision and that's what she should be empowered to do and those same people0.99
00:45:01.800trying to demand labor of her should donate0.70
00:45:04.500so that she can have her spa time for as long as she wants.1.00
00:45:08.100Like, that is the kind of allyship that I want to see,
00:45:11.380not just finding new work for us to do
00:45:13.860when we're the only ones paying the price for the work.