There Are No Girls on the Internet - Should EVERYTHING be “content？” What happens when parents overshare their kids online？ (with Mom Uncharted)

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00:00:50.080 I survived nine months in captivity,

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00:00:58.780 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

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00:01:09.920 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:42.460 It all just became normal, like mom's pee on a stick

00:01:46.240 and a child's digital footprint begins.

00:01:55.900 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.720 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:09.180 We talk a lot about the ways the internet can be a not-so-safe place.

00:02:13.540 It's true for adults, and it's also true for kids.

00:02:16.700 And when well-meaning parents post content of their children to social media

00:02:21.340 or make entire online platforms solely around their kid,

00:02:25.900 It raises a lot of questions.

00:02:28.020 Is it safe?

00:02:29.520 What about privacy?

00:02:30.940 Or what about consent?

00:02:32.860 Technology moves so quickly, and pretty much before we knew it,

00:02:36.080 it kind of became normal for parents to share everything online.

00:02:41.140 Even things that were once reserved for family and close friends.

00:02:44.360 The most intimate moments.

00:02:46.260 Or even content about times where kids are sick or injured.

00:02:50.060 So in our increasingly digital world,

00:02:52.540 shouldn't we pause to ask if this is safe or healthy for our children?

00:02:55.900 My name is Sarah Adam, and I go by mom.uncharted on my social media accounts, mainly TikTok, and you can just call me Sarah.

00:03:05.920 Sarah uses her growing platform on TikTok to explore what she calls Generation Shared, and she was inspired to start in part by the experiences of parenting during the pandemic.

00:03:17.540 I became a mom in late 2017, and I naturally followed a lot of mommy bloggers and mommy

00:03:25.120 influencers, mainly over on Instagram. And as the years went on, specifically kind of during the

00:03:33.200 pandemic, when we all moved towards like this online world, I just noticed the amount that

00:03:39.460 parents were sharing was getting more frequent, was getting more detailed. And I started to feel

00:03:47.360 uncomfortable with the amount I was seeing other people's children displayed on social media and

00:03:54.900 the stories they were sharing and the intimate details they were sharing. And I just couldn't

00:04:01.720 help but think, does anyone else feel this is getting a little out of hand? Does anyone else

00:04:06.740 feel that like maybe we're oversharing details about our kids? And so I eventually just

00:04:15.900 downloaded TikTok and thought, you know what, maybe I'll ask, maybe I'll start talking about

00:04:22.200 these things. See if, see if there's a community out there of like-minded people who feel like,

00:04:27.520 yeah, you know, this is getting a little weird. This is getting a little strange.

00:04:33.000 And did you find that community? Is there a community of like-minded

00:04:36.020 folks who are interested in having those conversations?

00:04:39.260 Yes, I did. So when I first downloaded TikTok, I did kind of like the mom stuff,

00:04:44.460 the trend stuff. I had a pandemic baby. I talked about that. I talked about things going on in my

00:04:50.100 area and was just trying to like learn the app and figure out who I was. And I noticed that

00:04:57.720 whenever I integrated the concept or the topic of sharenting or child exploitation on social media,

00:05:05.840 that people were pretty engaged and like that stuff and wanted to talk about it.

00:05:11.660 And so, yes, I did find a group of like-minded, mainly parents, but generally adults who feel that like we need to think longer and harder about the way we are sharing and utilizing our kids on social media.

00:05:28.840 Yeah, I know that you talk a lot about some of the harms and the dangers of sharing kids on social media that I definitely want to get into.

00:05:35.440 But something that you said that really struck me was, yes, that it can be super harmful, but also I think the question of like, is it okay for strangers to see certain moments?

00:05:50.180 Something that comes to mind is like a video I saw where it was like an influencer and she made a video and it was like, the moment you've been waiting for, my newborn's first bath.

00:06:00.180 and it is sort of like that's an intimate thing like i don't i'm not a parent myself but i just

00:06:06.520 became a niece and i my my brother and his partner they had their first like skin to skin and it was

00:06:14.140 this incredible like intimate experience isn't it not great that strangers would feel entitled to be

00:06:20.700 a fly on the wall for the intimate most deep special moments between a mother or a parent

00:06:29.180 and a child that they don't even know yeah it um it feels like social media has made things less

00:06:38.380 sacred almost like these moments that you used to really be present for for your children you know

00:06:46.500 the first bath the first skin to skin there's like a camera there and it's being filmed and

00:06:53.900 it just makes me think like, is anything just private anymore? Are there anything that parents

00:07:01.460 just want to keep to themselves and hold near and dear and close and, you know, put the phone down

00:07:09.060 for, right? Yeah, it, it, to me, I think it's strange. I think it's strange that parents would

00:07:19.300 want strangers who they have not vetted to be privy to these intimate moments with their

00:07:28.160 children, right? That these strangers can save the videos and develop potentially like

00:07:34.760 parasocial relationships with children. It just feels strange to me.

00:07:41.580 Yeah, a real new normal where I think you're right. I wonder if anyone has thought to pump

00:07:48.100 the brakes and say, hey, is this really the future that we want to have? Is social media

00:07:54.260 getting us to a future that we want or to a future that doesn't feel great in some ways?

00:07:58.320 I'm happy that someone is out there forcing the question because with technology, things move so

00:08:04.380 quickly and you can get to a new place without ever really thinking, how did we get here? And

00:08:09.820 did we want to be here in the first place? Well, honestly, Bridget, I think that's kind of how we

00:08:14.080 got here with the sharing right with the oversharing of our like children in our lives

00:08:18.680 is that technology moves so fast and it all just became normal like mom's pee on a stick

00:08:26.000 and a child's digital footprint begins right and we weren't talking about it so we weren't

00:08:37.100 reflecting on it as parents or really critically thinking about it because it's what we were

00:08:41.980 continuing to see and what I want to do and what I try to do is just bring a different opinion a

00:08:50.680 different perspective I want to engage in these conversations right I'm not trying to like attack

00:08:57.860 I'm not trying to shame I'm just trying to say like whoa guys have we like reached a point where

00:09:04.120 we need to just pause and reflect on this and think critically think about their future not just

00:09:10.480 the present. It's really about just having parents pause before posting, thinking about

00:09:19.080 their own sharing practices, as well as the content they are consuming online.

00:09:24.640 Yeah. What are some of the dangers that you've seen in terms of like maintaining

00:09:28.360 an account that is solely based, like a parent maintaining an account or a social media presence

00:09:33.900 that is solely based around a child? Yeah, I've seen like some of the strange

00:09:39.740 like parasocial relationships that people are like waiting for these kids videos to pop up in 0.99

00:09:45.320 their feed that like you know they make their day and things like that a lot of predatory people

00:09:53.400 also depending on the type of account like specifically mothers who are exploiting their

00:10:00.620 young daughters I have noticed there's a lot of predatory people following those accounts and

00:10:08.440 And like, sadly, we live in a world where images can be saved and altered and digitally

00:10:13.840 manipulated and put in scary places of the internet.

00:10:18.040 And it's just so much to think about and consider, right?

00:10:25.240 Yeah, your content, I mean, take this whatever way you're going to take it.

00:10:32.280 I maybe was a little bit naive about, like, I know the internet is a scary place.

00:10:37.540 And I know there's weirdos and creeps out there. Of course. Your account really made me realize what an organized network of creeps exist on the Internet specifically to target content regarding children in ways that I never would have thought.

00:10:59.560 Like, like, like, it's, it's almost like, so dark, it's tough to talk about. But there's like a market, a marketplace for people who don't have great intentions with materials around surrounding children. It's like, very, it's like very upsetting. And I understand that people might not want to, like, I don't want to talk about it or think about it, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

00:11:22.460 Well, honestly, sadly, it's a massive marketplace. Like the things I have come across, it's terrifying and it's scary and it's dark and it's dangerous. But the safety element wasn't even really on my radar when I first started thinking about these things.

00:11:40.780 I was coming more from a like, don't our kids deserve privacy? Like we're choosing to put

00:11:46.800 ourselves out there. We, you know, consented to be public in public figures, whatever you want

00:11:52.580 to call it. And they didn't. So I was always coming from that kind of place. And it wasn't

00:11:57.540 until I dove into it that the real safety concerns kind of came out. And as I was learning more about

00:12:08.520 these dark corners of the internet and the people on these apps and things like that I just felt

00:12:13.960 like well I gotta share I gotta tell other parents that this is happening and these are like you know

00:12:19.960 the tags they use and what they're looking for I felt if I was accumulating all this knowledge I

00:12:25.880 had to share it with other parents right and you're right it is hard to think about but as I always

00:12:32.800 say, we have to remember that when we post images publicly, we lose the ability to control them.

00:12:41.340 And sadly, some of the worst people in society are on these social media platforms and their

00:12:49.720 intentions are not good. And the FBI has stated that there's over 500,000 active predators online

00:12:56.760 each day. And I don't know if that's like an American stat or like a worldwide stat, but like

00:13:02.340 that's enough as a mom to be like, whoa, whoa. That's a lot of predatory people. 1.00

00:13:09.500 Are there red flags that might indicate that creeps are interested in a certain kind of

00:13:15.780 material that you're posting online? Yeah, like, you know, there's such an

00:13:21.280 anonymity with the internet that creeps can be very blazing and bold, right? They can just hide

00:13:26.820 behind these troll accounts they can say terrible comments they can private their account so you

00:13:34.000 can't see their followers list and what else they're doing out there but I've noticed a lot

00:13:39.840 of them aren't as sly as others and if oftentimes you click on a user's name who maybe made an

00:13:48.180 inappropriate comment on a video of a child and they are public you can see their followers list

00:13:54.400 And usually that gives you an insight into the type of individual that might be.

00:14:00.620 I feel like most parents, most good parents would never knowingly put their kid in danger,

00:14:08.580 right?

00:14:08.820 Do you think that there's something about the internet that blurs the actual like legitimate

00:14:14.360 danger, not just the privacy invasion, all of that, like all of that is important as

00:14:19.620 well. But the legitimate danger that some of these parents maybe unwittingly are putting their kids

00:14:25.680 in, do you think the internet makes it difficult to see it as dangerous because it's happening on

00:14:32.380 the internet? Yeah, 100%. I feel like there's an element that it feels like not real, like

00:14:40.200 less scary because they aren't physically able to like touch you or get to you that it give

00:14:53.660 yeah but then I think about like stories like Ava Majuri who had a stalker show up

00:15:00.760 with a shotgun at their family home let's take a quick break

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00:16:13.940 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:16:19.900 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,

00:16:26.300 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:16:32.340 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

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00:17:12.000 See you between the pages.

00:17:14.100 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:17:19.860 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:17:26.420 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:17:30.040 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:17:35.480 shut up, don't say anything.

00:17:38.240 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:17:42.640 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:17:47.100 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:17:51.860 and I just started screaming.

00:17:54.180 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:17:58.640 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:18:02.080 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:18:05.720 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:19.440 And we're back.

00:18:21.380 Ava Majuri started using TikTok two years ago when she was 13 to stave off pandemic

00:18:26.100 boredom.

00:18:27.100 Since then, her platform has grown to over a million followers.

00:18:30.920 Last year, after months of harassing Ava online, 18-year-old Eric Rohan Justin traveled to

00:18:37.620 her home and shot a hole through her bedroom door before Ava's dad shot and killed him.

00:18:43.220 When he was killed, he brought two cell phones with him that were filled with thousands of

00:18:48.080 pictures and videos of Ava.

00:18:50.120 And just this spring, Ava was being stalked by a classmate.

00:18:53.600 Ava's parents talked to her about leaving social media after the incident with Eric.

00:18:58.040 But Ava said that she liked the platform that she had built,

00:19:01.160 and she thought it could help her get into a good college.

00:19:03.620 So she continues making content.

00:19:06.080 Now, young people like Ava should be able to make the decision for themselves

00:19:10.100 about how they show up online,

00:19:12.020 not be forced into it by their parents before they're really even old enough to understand it.

00:19:16.580 Because the dangers that can come with showing up online

00:19:19.080 are real the people online can and do turn up in real life right so we're seeing more stories where

00:19:28.440 like they're um intersectional right you know the online world and the real world are starting

00:19:35.480 to come together but I definitely agree and I think maybe because parents are posting

00:19:42.280 the images and videos like the parent feels like in control right and that they would not put their

00:19:51.040 child in danger and it's just thinking deeper into it right yeah that's something that we talk

00:19:59.280 about on this podcast it seems like endlessly getting people to wake most people are a lot of

00:20:05.880 people are there but to wake up to the reality that the like online harms don't often stay online

00:20:12.740 right and so you know we had this attitude a while ago where it was like oh it's just the internet

00:20:17.480 who cares but the internet and the real world there's there's much more overlap to the two

00:20:23.360 than you think and there are so many instances where whether it's harassment or violent behavior

00:20:29.340 It might start online, but it does not end online.

00:20:33.320 100%, right?

00:20:35.580 And that goes back to, you know, another element I discussed in regard to like posting photos

00:20:41.080 and stuff is, you know, embarrassing content of your children, low moments of your children

00:20:44.900 and the potential that it could be used as like bullying fodder down the line, right?

00:20:50.300 To your point, and then these bullies have access to all of this content and it doesn't

00:20:59.340 end in the schoolyard like it used to for these kids right and for the teens online and things

00:21:05.340 like that it's all with you 24 7 right um another thing that we have to think about

00:21:14.640 yeah some sometimes on your page you'll have this like oh that just breaks my heart there's this

00:21:21.360 content where it'll be I am fostering these kids with disabilities and it'll go into these like

00:21:28.300 very specific detailed retellings of the issues that these kids have and the circumstances that

00:21:36.500 they came from and I just and I understand that the content is supposed to make you feel like

00:21:43.120 oh how nice or like oh heartwarming blah blah but it's just so clear to me that the kid the child

00:21:50.820 the person that that you should be really focused on that no one is really thinking about like well

00:21:56.920 how is this going? If they're in school and you're showing their face and using their name and

00:22:01.020 talking about their history and their background, is this going to be good for them? Yeah. I'm not

00:22:07.320 an adoptive mom or foster mom, and I'm not adoptive or foster child. So like, I can't speak

00:22:14.500 from that experience, but I have talked to a lot of people in those communities. And my thought on

00:22:22.800 it is that that's their story, right? We have to remember that these are individual humans. They

00:22:30.520 may be little, we may be in charge of them, but they still have their own stories and their own

00:22:36.400 experiences, especially when we're thinking about like foster and adoptive children who could come

00:22:41.800 from a lot of trauma, right? And to have their trauma publicly shared without their knowledge

00:22:50.340 and consent feels like they can't be the author of their own story and they don't get that back

00:23:00.100 right they're not going to be able to reclaim that story as theirs like what if they didn't

00:23:09.100 want that information public and now forever it is public right it almost I worry about like

00:23:16.000 them being re-traumatized by having their stories and their experiences

00:23:23.320 shared publicly online. Oof I have a I mean you might agree with me I have I have what might be a

00:23:31.400 controversial opinion we don't care we don't see as a society we don't see kids as human like we

00:23:38.740 have I think that sometimes it can be adults can be so removed from the experience of being a child

00:23:45.980 that it almost we almost dehumanize them and we don't give them we treat them as if they don't

00:23:50.920 have any right to privacy or the right to be authors or to give voice to their own experience

00:23:56.480 and we kind of have this the situation where it's like the adults know better and are allowed to

00:24:02.720 you know make whatever choices that they want for the child and I think I think that we really

00:24:08.420 don't always treat children as if they are little humans we we treat them in this way that I find

00:24:15.520 really dehumanizing. I think a lot of people would agree with you. A lot of people feel that

00:24:21.060 kids right now, especially on social media, are kind of being treated like property of their

00:24:26.600 parents. So like their parents have the right to do whatever they want. Or I often refer to

00:24:32.660 things I'm seeing like treating your child like a prop or an accessory to your content rather than

00:24:39.400 a little human. And that's really hard. And we don't know the consequences and ramifications

00:24:47.240 of all of this down the line. But to your point, this is a real human lived experience. They're

00:24:54.760 not actors playing a role here, right? This is their life. And we are putting it all out there

00:25:04.020 without their knowledge and their consent and being the authors of their story and not giving

00:25:10.780 them the digital autonomy that we have been given, right? Like I'm a later millennial. I didn't have

00:25:20.440 Facebook until I was 21 years old, an adult, right? And let me tell you, at 21, I felt like an adult.

00:25:27.760 Let me tell you, I was not an adult, right?

00:25:32.060 Not an adult, right?

00:25:33.260 But I signed up, I consented and I said,

00:25:36.240 whatever I do, like this is on me, right?

00:25:38.980 And they're not getting that choice.

00:25:41.400 They're going to sign on when they're, you know, 13 or whatnot

00:25:44.660 and have a very lengthy, detailed digital footprint

00:25:49.760 already created for them that explains who they are,

00:25:55.680 that maybe that's not who they are or want to be perceived as.

00:26:01.940 Do you ever hear from children who have now gotten a bit older,

00:26:06.880 I guess they're like, you know, young adults,

00:26:08.520 who were the subject of a mommy blog or a, you know,

00:26:12.400 mom run account about what that experience was like for them?

00:26:17.040 There is an individual, Cam Soft Scorpio on TikTok.

00:26:21.820 She, I don't think she was used as like in a mommy vlogger form.

00:26:25.680 but she grew up with a chronic oversharer and she shares her details on the public platform about how

00:26:32.720 she deals with all of the trauma that her mom put her through by sharing her life publicly online

00:26:40.880 and there is another recently a video has gone viral from Caroline Eastman a comedian out of

00:26:48.760 Chicago where a child vlogger got in contact with her anonymously and let her share a letter

00:26:56.700 about her experience being a child in this you know family vlogging world and it's heartbreaking

00:27:05.100 it's heartbreaking so I haven't like no one's directly reached out to me but again all these

00:27:11.240 vlogger children are kind of just coming of age now many of them maybe are like in their later

00:27:16.800 teens. And I think sometimes it takes a little longer to reflect on things, right? I wouldn't

00:27:26.880 be surprised if it takes until 25, 30 for these children to really reflect back on their childhood

00:27:34.620 and see things differently. Because right now, if you're 17, 18 years old, you might think it's

00:27:40.440 really cool, right? You're still very much in this world, right? But as you age and look back

00:27:48.640 on your childhood, as we all do, you might see things very differently. Yeah. And I also think

00:27:54.120 if you are, if you grew up in a household with a chronic online overshare or a mom or a parent who

00:28:01.080 was like, you were their content, you might not realize how harmful that was until you're out of

00:28:09.140 like that might just be your you might not have a concept of the fact that like that's that's not

00:28:13.500 everybody's normal circumstances until you're like out of it several years removed because it

00:28:18.360 was your lived experience right you learn what you live if these children are living in a world

00:28:25.120 where they are constantly being filmed and everything is content then that's what they

00:28:30.920 learn and that's what they feel comfortable with and that's just their existence maybe they're not

00:28:36.380 aware that that's not how the majority of kids grow up, right? So I think it's going to take a

00:28:44.760 little time, but I think they're going to come, right? Like you, there's often the comparison

00:28:50.700 between like child stars and influencer kids, and there's a lot of differences, but I feel like

00:28:58.000 we can take a little bit from the child star experience and think that maybe some of these

00:29:07.980 kids have the potential to have similar traumas. Definitely. So I just finished, um, Jeanette

00:29:14.520 McGurdy's book. Uh, I'm glad my mom died, which like, geez, what a gut punch of a read that was

00:29:20.680 My God. But, you know, when it comes to child actors, I mean, I have no idea about the business, but I do know that there's laws like there's like there's like certain laws about how long they can work, what their schooling looks like, all of that, where the money goes.

00:29:39.620 Influencing and content creating is such a new field that we don't really even have a body of laws that I'm aware of that speaks to that because it's such a new field.

00:29:52.260 Do you think this is a place where our technology has progressed quicker than our societal and legal understanding?

00:30:01.820 Do you think that there should be laws in place or at least norms in place for how children can show up online if a parent is monetizing a content page dedicated solely to them?

00:30:13.340 Yeah, I definitely think that there needs to be rules and regulations put forth to protect the kids and like their labor and the money that they are essentially making. I don't know when that will come. You know, there's a lot going on in the world.

00:30:32.000 And I think a lot of one aspect is the people usually in charge of, you know, government and making regulations are quite older than the people who are like in the depths of this fast moving technology.

00:30:49.680 So I'm not even sure if lawmakers really understand the problem that is happening online, right?

00:30:57.640 Completely.

00:30:58.100 More after a quick break.

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00:32:08.800 If your bookshelf and your For You page

00:32:10.800 are equally important to your personality,

00:32:13.220 welcome home.

00:32:14.780 This is Prose Society,

00:32:16.860 the weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:32:19.400 part group chat for thought daughters,

00:32:21.160 pop culture obsessives,

00:32:22.360 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

00:32:24.180 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:32:27.200 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:32:30.900 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:32:34.320 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:32:36.200 I'm obsessed.

00:32:36.980 So obsessed.

00:32:37.900 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators

00:32:40.520 to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:32:43.840 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

00:32:49.840 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:32:51.720 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

00:32:55.340 or a community of readers who love to think a little too much,

00:32:59.260 you're in the right place.

00:33:00.920 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:33:03.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:06.860 See you between the pages.

00:33:08.960 When I was 14 years old,

00:33:11.220 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:33:14.740 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring

00:33:17.440 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:33:21.060 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. 0.70

00:33:24.660 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:33:33.300 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:33:37.520 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:33:42.080 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:33:49.500 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:33:53.320 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:33:57.000 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:34:00.600 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:34:14.920 Let's get right back into it.

00:34:16.420 my nine to five job is around like platform accountability and sort of trying to

00:34:21.800 nudge platforms to do the right thing. And some of that work involves lawmakers. And

00:34:28.780 I'll just say sometimes I'm like, oh, the people making the laws for our platforms. I don't know

00:34:34.820 how innately familiar they are with them, but yet they are in charge of them. Exactly. And then also

00:34:40.740 I would say I have this theory that you know you know when I look at like influencers for so long

00:34:46.780 influencing was something that was mostly like like dominated by women and so I think that it

00:34:54.000 gave it this idea that it wasn't serious and didn't need scrutiny and I think that when it

00:34:58.520 comes to children showing up online via their parents I think a lot of that is also dominated 0.61

00:35:03.940 by women and thus it is avoided the same kind of scrutiny I just think that when something is like

00:35:09.220 has the impression of like, 0.87

00:35:10.800 oh, it's just something 1.00

00:35:11.420 that women are doing on the internet. 1.00

00:35:13.400 It gives an, it has an air of, 1.00

00:35:18.300 it's not worthy of scrutiny

00:35:19.920 or a real meaningful attention.

00:35:22.200 And I think nothing could be further from the truth.

00:35:25.020 I think you nailed it on that one, Bridget.

00:35:27.880 I completely agree.

00:35:29.620 When you make your content,

00:35:30.740 do you ever get accusations of like,

00:35:33.300 that your mom's shaming?

00:35:34.840 Like, oh, why don't you leave her alone?

00:35:36.220 It's not your kid. 0.75

00:35:37.500 If she wants to put her,

00:35:38.200 if she wants to put her kid on her TikTok or social media like this, who are you to say

00:35:44.100 anything? Do people ever accuse you of shaming moms? Occasionally, it's definitely died down

00:35:49.760 recently. Like I get a lot of like, mind your own business or not, not your kid, not your problem.

00:35:56.500 But I feel that the mom shaming has died down a little, but I've also grown with my platform.

00:36:03.400 So I try really hard to, you know, inform and educate and offer a difference of opinion and use examples that aren't, you know, stitched and duetted and usernames are hidden and identities are hidden.

00:36:19.480 You know, some of these people have millions of followers.

00:36:21.600 So like, you know who I'm talking about, but I want it to be around the conversation versus trying to attack somebody.

00:36:32.100 So I think as I've grown with my platform, it's died down because I'm really trying to, I don't want to mum shame. I don't want, I don't think any, if a mother's making a different choice than me, I don't think they should be attacked for it and ridiculed for it because I don't think it's a black and white issue.

00:36:54.960 I think there is a lot of gray when it comes to online sharing.

00:37:00.760 I've said multiple times that I'm not against all sharing, but I am against parents making

00:37:07.000 their content their kids.

00:37:09.780 And, you know, 90% of their content is their kid or their whole account is solely their

00:37:15.580 kid is very different than an influencer who sometimes does a dance with their kid or shows

00:37:22.160 them at the park occasionally, right?

00:37:24.260 like there's gray there's a spectrum yeah i i agree because i mean and i'm gonna be honest like i

00:37:31.200 when i'm scrolling tiktok i love children when i when a cute kid doing a dance or a cute kid

00:37:37.900 doing something like you know making food and they're like pretend kitchen i love that i love

00:37:45.080 that stuff but honestly it's made me take a more critical look at my own role in the content that

00:37:52.380 I am consuming and thus incentivizing you know we all love cute kids yes if I'm seeing a content

00:37:59.500 where it's like this kid doesn't look happy or this kid looks like they they've they've they

00:38:04.340 understand that they have to perform in a certain way to get validation and maybe they don't want

00:38:09.960 to and they're doing it anyway it's made me take a much more critical eye to the content that I am

00:38:16.780 consuming and thus incentivizing and, you know, incentivizing them to keep making it.

00:38:22.740 Yeah, totally.

00:38:23.340 I, and that's one of the things I've always hoped is that parents and adults will reflect

00:38:28.840 on the content they are consuming.

00:38:31.440 And if they were consuming these like kid centric accounts that they don't look at it

00:38:37.020 as a place of entertainment.

00:38:38.560 They look at it from a place of personal lived human experience of that child, right?

00:38:46.780 Like that child is not a knowing or willing participant, right?

00:38:54.520 Because they can't consent.

00:38:56.300 They don't know what social media is.

00:38:57.840 They don't know they're being blasted to a billion people on TikTok.

00:39:01.600 So just to be able to think more critically of how we are seeing kids and interacting

00:39:07.780 with them online is a big part of what I talk about too.

00:39:11.520 I've noticed there are content creators who are talking about how they are no longer going

00:39:16.340 to be featuring their child on their social media content. Do you feel that the tides are sort of

00:39:21.000 turning? I feel like the tides are like, I feel like there's like a little ripple, right? And

00:39:27.560 you never know, the ripple might turn into the wave, or it might just not go anywhere. But I've

00:39:33.300 seen like really big creators recently, some who are, you know, pregnant or trying to conceive

00:39:39.000 announced that like they won't be sharing their child on social media that like you know maybe

00:39:46.220 from the back or something like that but they firmly believe they can't give informed consent

00:39:52.000 and when they have platforms of millions of people and stuff like that I guess you would know how

00:39:57.540 dark and scary and weird it can get right so you maybe wouldn't want your kid involved in that and

00:40:07.220 every day I have parents reaching out to me just saying that I've changed the way they thought in

00:40:12.620 their own um within their own family and the way they share online and the content they consume

00:40:18.600 so I do see a little tide um a little ripple in the water of change because again like my goal

00:40:27.300 isn't to like get rid of kids on the internet or anything like that it's to really think about

00:40:33.060 like to treat them as humans. And we wouldn't want pictures and videos of ourselves circulating

00:40:40.320 online without our knowledge and consent. Yet we're doing this every day to our kids, right?

00:40:44.940 It's just these things we have to think about. It's important to think about these things.

00:40:51.400 Yeah. Oof. My mom has this picture of me framed in our house from when I was a toddler. And it's

00:40:57.860 it's an unflattering picture I'm I'm I'm doing something very unflattering and I always think

00:41:04.080 thank god that we didn't have social media it's like that it's like as an adult that was the

00:41:09.800 image that people associated with me still like yeah you know if that image went viral oh it will

00:41:15.400 be a nightmare well we say like all so as a millennial one of our biggest things is well I'm

00:41:22.520 so glad that my teenage years weren't blasted on the internet or my childhood wasn't blasted on

00:41:28.100 the internet. Yeah, we are some of the worst for doing it to our own children. So it's just really

00:41:34.580 interesting sometimes how people aren't connecting that, right? Like you wouldn't want it done to you.

00:41:42.620 You're glad it wasn't done to you, yet you're actively doing it to your children. You just

00:41:49.680 need to self-reflect on that. That's so interesting. I hadn't thought about that, but you're so right

00:41:54.320 that we are the ones doing it. And we didn't, we are always talking about how we're happy it didn't

00:42:00.740 happen to us and we're turning it around and doing it to the next generation. Exactly. Right. And I

00:42:06.280 think I, I worry because some people are like, well, you know, your kids aren't here. Why do

00:42:11.660 you care? Well, I care because I care about kids. I care about the generation of humans. My children

00:42:16.420 are growing up with and around and amongst, right? And right now, what we know to be true

00:42:25.760 is that the teens are really suffering. They're becoming increasingly addicted to their smartphones

00:42:32.740 and their screens. Rates of anxiety, depression, suicide, mental health in general have skyrocketed

00:42:42.680 since the advent of social media over the past two decades. And my gut as a parent says that if

00:42:50.760 this is where our teens are at now, why would we think it's going to be better for the next

00:42:56.660 generation? Why do we think having our kids online and plastered on the internet at such a young age

00:43:03.720 is going to benefit them down the line, right? Yeah, I'm right there with you. And I

00:43:12.440 I firmly believe that it's time to take meaningful, intentional steps to make sure that technology and the Internet is not creating a generation that is worse off than the one before it.

00:43:24.900 I think that we're just moving very quickly. You know, I think it's partly because it's our experiences are making wealthy tech bros lots of money.

00:43:36.120 And so those, those experiences are like lining somebody's pockets and thus we are not stopping to be like, well, are we create, are we enabling the internet to provide healthy experiences for the next generation or more fucked up experiences? And I deep, I deeply believe that young people deserve an internet that makes them feel safe and not exploited.

00:43:57.020 Yep. And I, yeah, it's just, there's so, there's so much, there's so much to talk about.

00:44:06.120 yeah it's like one of those topics it's like wow that's a real ball yarn yeah I just I just want

00:44:13.960 parents to think right that's why I call myself mom uncharted because I don't have the answers

00:44:22.300 no one does this is uncharted territory but it is a massive element of parenting today

00:44:28.220 so we need to talk about it and let's just have these open conversations and you can 0.97

00:44:34.120 agree or disagree you can use your parental discretion and do whatever the fuck you want 0.93

00:44:38.960 but you need to just listen and reflect because you can't go to the library and get out a book 0.91

00:44:46.460 and learn about how this is all going to turn out right we don't know the consequences and

00:44:51.540 ramifications to all of this and we're navigating it together and so at least we can talk about it

00:44:59.320 At least we can, you know, talk and have people just, you know, have a few light bulb moments, change a few things.

00:45:07.180 It's just about opening a dialogue and having a discussion about something that is literally like a massive aspect of parenting these days.

00:45:20.700 Yeah.

00:45:21.180 One of my last questions, do you have tips for maybe somebody is listening and they're like, I want to be more intentional about how my kids show up on my social media feed. Do you have any tips for that person listening?

00:45:32.500 so for me what works for my family and what I believe is the safest option to protect your

00:45:40.480 kids online as well as respect their privacy as an individual is to just not post um that's my

00:45:47.380 go-to however if you feel like you want to share with trusted family and friends

00:45:55.600 The best option is to do so in private mode

00:45:59.100 and really curate your followers list.

00:46:02.720 Really know and trust those individuals

00:46:05.500 who are following along with your children

00:46:07.320 and your family experience.

00:46:09.500 Those are always my go-to tips.

00:46:12.600 So I want to know what you think.

00:46:14.540 If you're a parent or a caregiver to a little one,

00:46:17.080 what is your philosophy

00:46:18.080 about how those kids show up on social media?

00:46:21.040 And how did you come to that decision?

00:46:23.060 Shoot me an email at hello at tangody.com

00:46:25.660 because like Sarah says,

00:46:27.520 we're navigating pretty uncharted territory here

00:46:30.260 when it comes to parenting, children, and the internet.

00:46:32.860 And I think that we'll only really be able to figure it out

00:46:35.620 by talking about it together.

00:46:41.560 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech

00:46:43.640 or just want to say hi?

00:46:44.940 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.

00:46:47.340 You can also find transcripts for today's episode

00:46:49.200 at tangody.com. 1.00

00:46:50.440 There Are No Girls on the Internet

00:46:51.720 That was created by me, Bridget Todd.

00:46:53.520 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:46:56.280 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

00:46:58.340 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

00:47:00.940 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

00:47:02.940 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

00:47:04.760 If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

00:47:08.340 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:47:21.720 if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

00:47:30.300 welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone

00:47:36.520 who thinks pride and prejudice and love island to serve the same level of discourse each week

00:47:41.040 we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite

00:47:45.060 writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm

00:47:50.040 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:20.040 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:28.500 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:48:32.820 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:48:38.160 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:48:44.820 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:48:47.840 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:48:51.180 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:58.700 I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 3 podcast.

00:49:03.180 This is a story about a horrendous situation that destroyed two families.

00:49:08.200 It's a scorched earth war that shows just how far someone will go to get what they want.

00:49:13.920 Cindy said, I had to choose between the truth and my family, and I had to choose the truth.

00:49:19.480 Listen to Season 3 of Burden of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:49:28.360 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:49:31.220 Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - October 18, 2022

Should EVERYTHING be “content？” What happens when parents overshare their kids online？ (with Mom Uncharted)

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