There Are No Girls on the Internet - The art of “Anti-influencing” - City CastDC

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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00:00:08.680 now at McDonald's.

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00:00:19.360 This product may not be right for you.

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00:00:24.620 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:00:26.940 Think again.

00:00:27.560 More Americans listen to podcasts,

00:00:29.020 then add supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster

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00:00:37.800 844-844-iheart if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

00:00:43.740 welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone

00:00:49.960 who thinks pride and prejudice and love island to serve the same level of discourse each week

00:00:54.500 we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite

00:00:58.520 writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions listen to pro society

00:01:05.240 on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts i survived nine months in

00:01:12.540 captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed

00:01:17.900 them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files every week i'm with survivors

00:01:24.200 who lived through the unthinkable,

00:01:26.160 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:30.000 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:01:33.840 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:01:36.600 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:01:39.620 or wherever you get your podcasts. 1.00

00:01:45.680 There are no girls on the internet 0.90

00:01:47.140 as a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:01:54.200 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:01:59.340 So some of y'all might know that I live in Washington, D.C., the capital city of the United States.

00:02:04.700 And when I'm not making podcasts about technology and the Internet and what it all means here on There Are No Girls on the Internet,

00:02:10.920 I'm also a co-host for a podcast called CityCast D.C., alongside my friend Mike Schaefer, a columnist for Politico,

00:02:18.180 where we dig into the everyday life of living in Washington DC to help folks feel even more

00:02:23.880 connected to this city that we love so much. And if you don't live in DC, but you're thinking,

00:02:29.000 wow, that sounds very cool. I wish they had a podcast like that in my city. They might because

00:02:33.720 there are CityCast podcasts all over the country. And I wanted to share this episode with you

00:02:38.340 because even though it's about Washington DC, it hits a lot of the conversations that we have here

00:02:43.620 on There Are No Girls on the internet. Questions about what it means to be a visible woman of

00:02:47.680 color on the internet. The good, and the bad, and the everything that comes with it. In this episode, 0.99

00:02:53.620 we talk to Jade, the human behind the super popular DC Instagram account, ClockOutDC,

00:02:59.860 where Jade gives real, no BS, never bought takes about what kind of events, restaurants, and bars

00:03:05.620 are worth your time or not worth your time in the DC area. Working entirely by herself,

00:03:11.880 Jade has built up a huge following and influence in DC, but along with it comes challenges that,

00:03:19.280 as a fellow woman of color creator trying to bootstrap my way in media, I know far too well.

00:03:25.560 So I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with Jade for CityCast DC, and be sure to subscribe.

00:03:31.620 You can go to citycast.fm to find a CityCast podcast for your city. And as always, thanks for listening.

00:03:42.800 Today on CityCast DC.

00:03:44.620 I'm not really an influencer or cool celebrity.

00:03:46.940 I am Jade, your neighbor.

00:03:48.580 Jade Womack never expected her clock out DC page to grow as quickly as it did.

00:03:53.000 But here we are.

00:03:54.260 She's got 70,000 followers and her Instagram stories get thousands of views per day.

00:03:59.200 Sounds pretty great, right?

00:04:00.760 Well, as it often is on the internet, with that success came Backlash.

00:04:05.340 And Jade's here to tell us about how she navigates all of it.

00:04:11.880 it's wednesday october 5th 2022 i'm britchett todd and this is citycast dc

00:04:21.080 when we were talking about doing this interview was like boy do i know a little something about

00:04:37.900 the things that Jade is experiencing. So really excited to be connecting. Yeah. What does it feel

00:04:44.920 like to be just one single person who runs this project that you just started out to be like a fun

00:04:52.200 thing that is now blown up in D.C. and kind of taken over your life? What does that experience

00:04:57.720 feel like for you? Well, the word cloud of this entire experience would probably be like wild,

00:05:02.820 grateful surprising and scared like all the time scared I guess and yeah it's been really fun though

00:05:13.760 I would say you always are learning stuff you meet so many people but yeah who knew who knew

00:05:19.680 that this would be my pandemic hobby that just somehow like blew up and I started it before the

00:05:24.660 pandemic and it just kind of just gained this momentum and steam and here we are now 70,000

00:05:30.920 followers later. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it's gotta be, does it ever feel like a double-edged sword

00:05:37.440 where it's something that you're so grateful to have built and something so happy to have in your

00:05:42.480 life, but also comes with this baggage that can be a real particular experience to unpack?

00:05:50.300 Oh, for sure. I think it's kind of like the snake that eats itself because, you know, it's fun that

00:05:55.600 you have to share this stuff to people about things to do and events, but that means that

00:05:59.860 as you grow more people see the stuff that you share that means that if somebody doesn't like it

00:06:04.780 the more chances of they will let you know and the more chances of you getting bullied or quote

00:06:10.540 canceled or whatever that is so the stakes get higher as things build I guess that being said

00:06:17.120 the impact you can have also gets greater too so it's hard I've had some really great instances

00:06:23.060 where there is this woman she was a recent Afghan evacuee and she messaged me and she was like I

00:06:28.940 never saw my culture until i moved to dc and i saw you shared an afghan film festival thank you for

00:06:34.520 letting me find like a home in dc powerful amazing the armed forces retirement home uh emailed me

00:06:41.540 frantically because they had this volunteer group pull out and i posted something asking you know

00:06:47.060 my community like hey like we send christmas cards to this like group does anybody want to help like

00:06:52.460 volunteer at this retirement home and 20 people from instagram spontaneously helped this retirement

00:06:58.980 home and they sent me a photo so the impact is like wild that like people are willing to like

00:07:03.320 show up do stuff find their own community and things but that being said if you share the wrong

00:07:08.520 thing or people just have bad days you can get cyber bullied and attacked very quickly and it

00:07:14.580 can go very south i am just sort of in my mind internally vigorously nodding and something i

00:07:21.980 notice about Clock Out DC, you have been so successful at effectively building this platform

00:07:29.800 and growing this audience that one might get the impression that you're working with a team,

00:07:35.700 that you got, you know, an assistant, a social media person, a PR person, but really it's mostly

00:07:41.240 just a one-woman show yourself, right? It is solely a one-woman show. For example, I sold

00:07:47.540 these t-shirts called views not in my employer because it's kind of like a joke because I have

00:07:52.960 a full-time job right and I have to ship them and like two nights ago I was like okay great so how

00:07:57.640 exactly do we print shipping labels and how exactly do I put them in bubblers and how am I

00:08:02.700 going to drop 50 envelopes to the mailbox and I have to get a new supplier because my first supplier

00:08:08.360 won't be able to make all 100 shirts and cool right so I'm not only a content creator now I'm

00:08:13.700 also like a little like amazon warehouse employee great and so it's like one in the morning and my

00:08:18.760 dog's looking at me and i'm playing celine dion like with packaging tape so yeah it's a one-woman

00:08:23.680 show completely and so being a one-woman show i i think it creates this attitude where people feel

00:08:30.580 more entitled to message because you're so good at what you do it gives the impression that oh

00:08:38.020 she has a team like they should be on this and so they don't realize that in fact that they're

00:08:42.580 messaging one person with a full-time job you know and so they might be like oh you didn't talk about

00:08:48.400 this or you talked about that in the wrong way and it's like well I'm one person so I often feel

00:08:53.700 like when you're a woman particularly a woman of color who creates something online people feel a

00:08:59.820 lot more comfortable kind of calling you out and they don't realize that like you are one person

00:09:05.840 who's a human right you're gonna make mistakes you're gonna miss things I think it goes both

00:09:10.080 ways right that as a person of color as a sole entrepreneur people harp on because you're an

00:09:14.560 oppressed person you should know better about how this affects us and we would expect better of you

00:09:21.100 to be able to learn quicker and to do better i think that is the onus like white girl jessica

00:09:27.100 or whatever we can just call this person right she should learn better because she should have

00:09:31.640 read like some anti-racist book but you know like you should know better because inherently like

00:09:36.720 you've been oppressed before and we expect this from you I think that's where the burden is more

00:09:40.220 on I agree yeah and I also think there's just something about being a solo woman of color

00:09:51.020 creative entrepreneur based in DC that I definitely feel because like I rep DC my

00:09:56.360 Instagram handles etc etc all like in DC DC DC yeah I think that DC is such a particular kind

00:10:02.680 the city because we are really plugged in for the most part to like political and social

00:10:07.920 conversations. And so even if you just started this project to be fun things to do around the

00:10:13.640 city, there is an expectation that you will be so plugged into what's going on in so many different

00:10:19.660 socio-political communities. I almost feel like it creates an impossible expectation because no

00:10:25.660 one person can be plugged into, you know, every cultural and political and social community and

00:10:31.700 happening city-wide yeah no completely I 100% agree I think you hit the nail on the head like

00:10:37.480 there are so many causes to support and everything is also so nuanced too and so many events and

00:10:46.540 things to do also share different purposes as well and spaces for them too I personally won't

00:10:52.640 share spaces where I wouldn't feel comfortable going to that event or I don't like those people

00:10:56.320 I'm not going to share that event that's different than me being like I don't believe in this cause

00:11:02.340 or whatever or something like that I think that's a little bit different and I personally am not

00:11:05.640 at the comfortable with certain things and making that judgment call and I hope people aren't

00:11:10.420 looking towards me to make that call for them yeah I think that's an important line to keep

00:11:17.440 of like I am not your conscious like I'm telling you fun things to do in the city don't look to me

00:11:22.840 to be your like moral arbiter of what causes you should or should not support or champion

00:11:27.940 that's not what I'm doing here I'm doing something different I think maybe it's partially because of

00:11:33.800 like the algorithm and I know everyone says this word in the sky like the algorithm but because

00:11:38.580 we're so used to seeing things that we like all the time if we see something we don't like they

00:11:43.000 just go full-fledged into like attack mode on the internet that's I think this is a common thing

00:11:48.120 and then the second thing too is that like on the internet there's a lot of like black and white and

00:11:52.120 people don't really have a lot of patience for nuance on the internet.

00:11:56.520 Yeah, that is definitely, I mean, this is something I know far too much about,

00:12:00.220 but that's definitely a true thing that algorithms and platforms are biased toward polarized ways of seeing things

00:12:08.820 and compartmentalized ways of seeing things.

00:12:10.760 And so social media platforms are not set up to honor nuance or humor or, you know, context and things like that.

00:12:19.720 it's better at flattening those things out and taking those conversations out of context I guess

00:12:24.680 I'll say yeah for sure I will say just going back the more generally speaking I was kind of

00:12:31.880 surprised at how far I've grown for somebody who decided not to do ads why what what drove this

00:12:38.360 decision what drove this decision so I actually started the entire page because I was I don't

00:12:43.580 know how much you know about my backstory about this entire page it was never like I'm gonna one

00:12:48.040 day wake up and be the anti-influencer i was bartending fridays and saturdays and sundays

00:12:53.620 and i found that like the tuesday night section of the washington post or the washingtonian stuff

00:12:58.140 it didn't really have a lot that i was interested in so i would start looking for my own events

00:13:02.600 list so i would just kind of start coming up with lists of things to do and then i would send out

00:13:06.760 this email to my friends which then i eventually made into an instagram and that's what started

00:13:12.180 this entire endeavor but because I came from this as like I'm looking for things to do now I want

00:13:18.400 to give people like an authentic review because they probably only have limited time and money

00:13:22.200 like I do and they should have a real a real expectation going in. I'm so grateful that's

00:13:28.800 where you landed because I have been burned on exactly what you were just talking about the sort

00:13:34.200 of cottage industry of influencer marketing where I have been burned on sponsored social media ads

00:13:41.660 that make certain immersive artistic experiences in the city look dope.

00:13:47.180 And I'm like, oh, my God, like, this looks amazing.

00:13:48.860 I got to go.

00:13:49.980 And so then you buy the ticket and you're like, well, it's a little pricey, but all right.

00:13:52.860 Then you get there and you're like, oh, it's just an Instagram photo opportunity.

00:13:56.680 It wasn't really a really good event.

00:13:58.760 And so your page is just so different because it allows for a little honesty to be injected into the conversation.

00:14:05.880 No, exactly.

00:14:06.880 And like, I think at this point, all the PR people and all the restaurant owners, we have a good repertoire.

00:14:11.400 where they know that if they invite me to an event sometimes before there used to be kind of

00:14:17.280 this disclaimer like if we give you free tickets there is an expectation that you'll have an

00:14:21.740 Instagram post and three videos or something in exchange for these comp tickets and I will always

00:14:27.740 reply back sorry I don't do exchanges like this I will go as a media preview and I'll give my

00:14:32.600 fair honest opinion but I will not do some exchange for tickets or I would rather just go and pay the

00:14:37.980 full price with my friends at a later date. So I think and but I kind of just started the page in

00:14:43.660 that premise. So I didn't realize, though, that people would really support that kind of a model

00:14:48.060 and that it would grow so big under that premise. And it has. So that's I think that's really nice

00:14:53.720 to know that that's what people want in D.C. Yeah, because as you said, in D.C., we work a lot.

00:15:00.480 We might be working a side job or a side hustle or a passion. We don't really have a lot of time

00:15:06.040 for WAC events, we don't really have a lot of time to show up and be like, oh, I kind of got

00:15:10.660 snookered into this event that wasn't good because somebody online got free tickets somewhere and

00:15:15.680 convinced me to spend my money, which is limited to show up and go. That's always been kind of the

00:15:21.600 biggest premise is the pay to play, no pay to play and no sponsor content.

00:15:29.640 Let's take a quick break.

00:15:36.040 The new Red Bull Dragonberry and Tropicberry Energizers, now at McDonald's.

00:15:42.180 Made with freeze-dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor.

00:15:46.700 The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's.

00:15:51.120 This product may not be right for you.

00:15:52.480 High in caffeine.

00:15:53.120 Details at mcdonalds.ca and participating Canadian restaurants, excluding Quebec.

00:15:56.420 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

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00:16:00.200 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

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00:16:24.400 That's iHeartAdvertising.com.

00:16:26.840 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:16:32.080 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:16:39.080 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:16:42.780 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:16:50.980 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:16:55.260 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:16:59.860 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:17:07.480 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:17:11.360 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:17:14.820 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:17:18.460 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:26.240 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:17:33.120 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:17:45.300 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:17:52.420 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:17:54.320 I'm obsessed.

00:17:54.940 I'm obsessed.

00:17:55.440 from bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments

00:18:00.440 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling

00:18:06.980 characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart

00:18:12.260 pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much

00:18:17.020 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

00:18:23.500 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. And we're back. Yeah. So I know that

00:18:36.000 you took a break from the project this summer. What prompted that break? I was just getting

00:18:40.980 very burnt out. I don't think people realize for a period of time, I was probably, I was

00:18:45.720 responding to about, I want to say between 200 to 300 DMs a day, because I don't know,

00:18:51.860 I was like people fangirl like you're famous I'm like no like I'm your neighbor and like we go

00:18:55.660 grocery shopping at the same store so I just sort of started just DMing a lot of people back and

00:19:00.120 then I just realized the point was like you know what as this page grows like when it was

00:19:03.220 a page of a thousand people and I had 50 DMs that's a lot different now when you're a page

00:19:08.160 of 70,000 people and you have 300 DMs I think one day when I COVID in December I responded to about

00:19:13.620 800 DMs in a day that was the most DMs I responded so if you think about one DM takes about one

00:19:19.040 one minute to respond to you can imagine the amount of screen time i would have and it just

00:19:24.440 started to become very unsustainable both to dm all these people back to both go to events to

00:19:30.080 reply to find stuff to write the newsletter to work a washingtonian on top of robie wade was

00:19:35.580 happening ukraine was happening you know there's just so many things right and so every time there's

00:19:40.120 an event every time there's something terrible that happens you share something people get mad

00:19:44.740 you don't share something else they get mad at you they emotionally dump on you they yell at you

00:19:48.800 so it was just reaching a point where I was just getting very burnt out and I also just get awful 1.00

00:19:53.180 DMs sometimes in the middle of the night you know you're terrible you're ugly you should go die like 0.97

00:19:57.920 you know it was just like I want to delete my Instagram and then I just took the time to like 0.99

00:20:03.620 really refocus on my friends and like my family and like my work life and all these other aspects

00:20:09.560 and in June I think I also gained like 20,000 followers and so I think that was also part of it

00:20:14.640 where you go everybody dreams about going viral but it's actually awful it's just like literally

00:20:19.440 it's just being like a tidal wave like ah like all these people like and like crazy chaos like

00:20:25.320 too much too much yeah i always say we're not meant to have access to strangers opinions about

00:20:32.460 us in that way like a wave of tens of thousands of people at one time sharing their opinion about

00:20:39.540 you humans are not our brains are not designed to absorb that experience in a healthy way

00:20:44.280 yeah I so Nats Park has 41,000 people that's the capacity and I remember I was there for like Lady

00:20:55.580 Gaga and Bad Bunny and I looked around I was like there are more people that follow my Instagram

00:20:59.380 than are currently at this concert and like the conceptualize that is wild and like I remember

00:21:09.220 one day there were like 15,000 people that looked at my Instagram story. And one week when I talked

00:21:17.740 about the hip hop party that the African American Museum was hosting, my reach was 1 million.

00:21:23.740 Wow.

00:21:24.380 On my Instagram analytics.

00:21:26.300 That is wild. I mean, it really goes to show the sort of what you were saying, that double-edged

00:21:34.040 sword of this platform, how it's the impact of that and the fact that you were able to curate

00:21:38.080 that yourself and build that yourself is amazing but also that's a lot of people that's a lot of

00:21:43.700 people who are all have their expectations and their versions of you in their head that they

00:21:48.340 feel that you need to be accountable to you yeah so now that you're back in action after your break

00:21:54.040 what are you doing differently this time around to make sure that you feel like that you can

00:21:59.300 approach this work from a good place yeah so I kind of made this large statement about I'm not

00:22:06.040 your enemy like I don't want to be your enemy if you have a problem email me and we will get coffee

00:22:11.620 that's kind of this has always been my house rules like with anyone the second thing is emailing me

00:22:18.060 I think that email allows for more breathing room I think DMs have more of this like automatically

00:22:24.380 you need to respond to and also I think that kind of creates kind of like what things are

00:22:29.460 DM worthy versus email worthy, less people have been DMing me. I think only like 10 people have

00:22:36.460 DMed me in a week. So just trying to limit some of those, those ways of public facing interacting

00:22:43.140 and also doing more events. So if people really want to hang out, like there are places we can

00:22:49.980 go and do that in real life. Yeah. Here's to creating the conditions for savoring your real

00:22:56.640 life while also being intentional about your online life yeah for sure jade where can folks

00:23:03.760 i mean at this point who's not following clock out dc but just in case you're the one person

00:23:07.460 listening who's not following how can folks follow clock out dc it's at clock out dc on

00:23:12.720 instagram five in 100 people in washington dc follow clock out dc these stats every time you

00:23:21.220 say one of these stats i'm like oh my god that's so many people wow well it's a testament to what

00:23:26.240 you've been able to build. Thank you so much for being here, Jade. It has been an absolute pleasure.

00:23:31.480 Thank you for having me.

00:23:41.320 That's all for today here on CityCast DC. Be sure to subscribe to ClockOutDC on Instagram.

00:23:46.380 And while you're there, check out our page too. We're at CityCast underscore DC. And that's also

00:23:51.900 our handle on twitter we'd love to hear from you we'll be back tomorrow morning with even

00:23:56.240 more news from around the city talk to you then but yeah being on the internet man i never knew

00:24:07.320 what reddit was until like two years ago and i'm like oh has it improved my life i don't know

00:24:12.680 i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:24:21.420 what should have destroyed them.

00:24:23.500 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:24:27.100 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,

00:24:30.820 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:24:34.640 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:24:38.480 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:24:41.260 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:24:44.260 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:24:46.100 If your bookshelf and your For You page

00:24:48.400 are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:24:51.840 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:25:00.480 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:25:08.740 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:25:10.480 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:16.780 I'm Hoda Kotb, host of the podcast Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb.

00:25:20.640 You know, I'm always searching for inspiration and useful tools to maximize joy.

00:25:26.380 Like when my friend Henry Winkler offered advice to aspiring actors and really anybody hoping to stand out.

00:25:33.400 You're not hired just to fill time and space.

00:25:36.220 You're hired to fill the space with you.

00:25:39.400 Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:25:46.900 I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 3 podcast.

00:25:51.380 This is a story about a horrendous situation that destroyed two families.

00:25:56.400 It's a scorched earth war that shows just how far someone will go to get what they want.

00:26:02.120 Cindy said, I had to choose between the truth and my family, and I had to choose the truth.

00:26:07.620 Listen to Season 3 of Burden of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:16.280 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:26:19.180 Guaranteed human.

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