There Are No Girls on the Internet - The Drama with Zendaya; BAFTAs Slur Fallout; Sheryl Sandberg Leans AI; Sex Pest Take-It-Down Conviction; Sex Toys Meta Ban; ANTIFA Terrorism Trial – NEWS ROUNDUP!

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00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

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00:01:55.540 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.660 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:09.360 Can we dip into the drama around the drama a little bit?

00:02:13.380 The drama, of course, being Zendaya's new A24 movie that is in theaters now, which you and I both saw over the weekend on opening night, mind you, which is always a little bit exciting for me.

00:02:24.240 Yeah, absolutely. The drama is worth talking about. The movie was pretty fun.

00:02:29.600 I really enjoyed it. The reviews are very polarizing, so it's not the kind of movie that's going to be for everybody.

00:02:36.440 The theater was full of what I kind of clocked as young Gen Z types, which was very exciting.

00:02:43.380 I actually saw a new poll that said that young people are going to the movies more.

00:02:48.460 This makes me happy as somebody who loves going to the movies.

00:02:52.160 The idea of people not going to the movies concerns me.

00:02:55.820 And it's all that I do, frankly.

00:02:57.240 It's like my one big pastime.

00:02:58.760 So I feel kind of cool that I'm like, oh, yeah, me and Gen Z have the same pastime here.

00:03:05.480 So youthful, so in touch with the kids.

00:03:07.400 According to Fandango's annual movie-going trends and insights study, they surveyed 7,000 adults, and they found that 87% of Gen Zers and 82% of millennials saw at least one movie in theaters in the past 12 months, compared with 70% of Gen Xers and only 58% of baby boomers.

00:03:27.480 huh so the gen zers are going to movies more than everybody else although it sounds like

00:03:33.060 everybody's going to movies that's like the majority of american adults went to at least

00:03:37.220 one movie which is uh surprising i thought the movies were dying what are they talking about

00:03:42.500 well that brings me to a little bit of my own personal drama regarding the drama which was

00:03:49.160 that i don't know i just want to have a little bit of a reset conversation about theater etiquette

00:03:56.680 Because we were at the movies together. And if I stop me, if I'm lying, this is this was my this was what I remember of that experience. We saw it at a small art house theater. Everybody talked at full volume through the trailers, not the commercials that come on before the movies.

00:04:16.000 I'm talking about the coming attraction, the trailers for new movies coming out.

00:04:22.540 Everyone in that theater was talking at full volume, not just one or two groups of people.

00:04:27.740 You and I were the only people who were not speaking, and they were speaking at full volume.

00:04:31.500 Is that a correct assessment of what the situation was?

00:04:34.320 I think you might be overblowing it a little bit.

00:04:37.980 There were a lot of people talking.

00:04:39.420 There was one group in particular that was sort of down front that clearly were there on some kind of like large group, triple date, quadruple date thing.

00:04:52.200 And I think there were a couple of them that were really talking at full volume and then just sort of giving license to many others in the theater to just be talking through the commercials, which like, you know, who cares?

00:05:06.540 but then through the trailers it was pretty distracting i mean you were taking it pretty

00:05:12.380 hard i was a guest i i i truly was like am i missing something i guess that's i guess it's

00:05:19.140 a question that i will pose has theater etiquette shifted where there is no longer an expectation

00:05:24.860 that you will be quiet through the coming attract i i come early because i want to see the trailers

00:05:31.300 I was so surprised.

00:05:34.440 Also, I have to push back on your characterization a little bit because it was a very small theater.

00:05:39.380 So there were only but like a few big groups in the theater.

00:05:42.660 I remember that all of them were speaking loudly.

00:05:45.040 And I don't mean, again, I won't begrudge somebody speaking in hushed tones.

00:05:49.660 Sure, do what you got to do.

00:05:50.780 I don't love it, but do what you got to do.

00:05:52.540 This was full volume conversation.

00:05:54.200 And because it's a theater, you can sort of hear what people are saying.

00:05:57.720 and it's not like they're saying things like oh that looks good or oh i'm gonna see that movie

00:06:01.340 it's they're talking about sheila from work or something yeah they're talking about dumb stuff

00:06:06.780 so anyway back to the part about you being in touch with the young people but also super mad

00:06:13.200 about them talking during the trailers well i guess that's my question young people do y'all

00:06:20.420 talk through trailers is that is that is that the vibe like like this is like the simpsons meme

00:06:26.160 no it's the children who are out of touch is it me am is is my I mean I've told I don't know if

00:06:32.640 I've told this story on the podcast but going to see a screening of the menu girl sitting next to

00:06:37.720 me blasting through full volume tiktoks and when I asked her to stop it like I have not had a lot

00:06:45.120 of experiences in my life where things almost got physical but I was like we might get into a

00:06:48.580 physical fight like I was I was like ready I was if that's what happens that's what happens

00:06:53.460 in at at the screening of the drama i remember when the movie started it it did take a they

00:07:00.640 did quiet down but it wasn't an instant quieting so like the movie was like playing for a little

00:07:05.540 bit until they stopped talking i mean you shushed them about like half a second into the film you

00:07:14.620 had that shush on the tip of your tongue ready to go and you let it rip i had it in the chamber

00:07:21.700 at that point we have paid to see the program you know i i was i'm not somebody who is too afraid to

00:07:28.160 you know those how people will be like they'll show they'll take a picture and they'll put it

00:07:31.520 on social media and be like this woman did xyz rude behavior i'm the one in the comments is like

00:07:37.140 did you tell her that you tell her to stop you tell her to like put her feet down you tell her

00:07:40.020 to stop kicking your chair whatever it is i have no problem shushing youth in a theater maybe i am

00:07:45.480 out of touch maybe i'm not as cool as i thought i was i mean the funny thing is that you only bring

00:07:50.300 this energy to the theater like i really can't think of any other aspect of your life that you

00:07:57.340 are so gung-ho to police the actions of strangers oh is there any oh now you i i think that's well

00:08:06.780 it's movie theater etiquette and it's how people get off of a plane oh yeah we've traveled together

00:08:14.440 and you've you've seen how i get oh we don't need to get into it now but you've seen how i get

00:08:19.660 when somebody is like not following the rules of being in a society being in a polite society

00:08:27.560 when we're deplaning you know bridget you really keep me guessing about like where are the areas

00:08:33.860 where you're just cool go with the flow and other areas where there are rules and they must be

00:08:40.240 followed and enforced mike says this nobody is a bigger enforcer of society's rules than mike

00:08:46.340 well yeah right i know coming off sounding like i like i'm the one that's like

00:08:51.420 little miss rules nobody is more of an enforcer of rules in public than mike i mean that's not

00:08:57.260 entirely fair but i do generally get annoyed when people do dumb things uh like the other day i was

00:09:05.520 driving and some guy who was just standing in the middle of the street not doing anything uh decided

00:09:14.200 he was gonna let me go so he like waved and he was like okay you can come through and i and i said

00:09:18.960 like gee thanks because i was pretty annoyed that he was just standing in the street and you were

00:09:23.280 like aghast but to me that is so much more egregious the guy's like blocking the street

00:09:28.600 we we could go tit for tat of who is more insane between the two of us i think i mask it better

00:09:34.600 i think that's probably true so the point is i wanted to pose that question

00:09:39.600 has the etiquette changed are we talking through trailers what is the latest let me know

00:09:44.440 okay so let's get into it Mike what do you remember about Sheryl Sandberg oh man I remember

00:09:52.600 lean in uh I remember she was sort of unceremoniously pushed out and then I remember I 0.83

00:10:02.800 think there was like a little bit of a delay but then it came out that there was a lot of

00:10:08.480 younger staffers were like cuddling in bed with her in like like a story that just didn't make

00:10:20.220 a lot of sense like kind of made a lot of sense but also i don't really recall exactly how that

00:10:25.500 particular thread ended how did i do oh i'm so impressed by how much you remember about

00:10:31.020 cheryl sandberg because she's not a figure that people talk about a ton you're exactly right that

00:10:37.100 you know, she was Facebook's first ever COO. She left Facebook in 2022 for how much fanfare

00:10:47.160 there was of her time at Facebook. And when she got hired, she left with like very little fanfare

00:10:54.340 in 2022. She wrote the book Lean In that I think represented a certain kind of empowerment for a

00:11:01.740 certain kind of woman when we were having conversations about working women and girl

00:11:06.140 bosses and all of that. So after Sheryl Sandberg left Facebook in 2022, there was a kind of little

00:11:13.100 micro PR kerfuffle a few years after that that I thought was pretty telling. Last summer,

00:11:18.720 Stephen Miller was meeting with Mark Zuckerberg at Mar-a-Lago. And according to the Times,

00:11:23.380 Zuckerberg blamed Sheryl Sandberg for an inclusivity initiative that Facebook had been 0.90

00:11:28.880 encouraging employees' self-expression in the workplace. So basically, he just threw her under

00:11:35.400 the bus, was like, oh, all that self-expression and diversity stuff, that was all Sheryl Sandberg.

00:11:39.940 I didn't want anything to do with that. This was, of course, right before Zuckerberg announced that

00:11:45.700 Meta was going to stop fact-checking and they were going to get rid of their corporate diversity

00:11:50.520 programs. When a reporter, Carissa Bell, wrote about this and wrote kind of like, oh, it seems

00:11:56.400 like Mark Zuckerberg is throwing Sheryl Sandberg under the bus, Zuckerberg commented on that

00:12:02.060 journalist's post, quote, Cheryl did amazing work at Meta and will forever be a legend in the

00:12:07.200 industry. She built one of the greatest businesses of all time and taught me much of what I know.

00:12:13.620 And then very quickly, Sheryl Sandberg replies to his comment and says,

00:12:17.760 thank you, Zuck. I will always be grateful for the many years we spent building a great business

00:12:22.120 together and for your friendship that got me through some of the hardest times in my life

00:12:26.180 and continues to this day. And then Zuckerberg hearted that comment. The whole thing read like

00:12:31.160 a pr cleanup that like her pr talked to his pr and they agreed we are going to publicly

00:12:36.460 affirm that that we are friends and that you didn't throw me under the bus right that's that

00:12:43.480 whole thing read like that to me those comments are like the most touchy feely heartfelt sentiments

00:12:50.620 that are just like hilarious to imagine them coming from zuckerberg or cheryl sandberg like

00:12:59.440 regardless of what you think of those two neither one of them is known for being like

00:13:04.800 touchy feely really into berg well we'll get to that that's fair uh you know emotionally touchy

00:13:17.320 feely uh sensitive into friendship these aren't things that they're into no and notably mark

00:13:24.140 zuckerberg did not walk back his comment it wasn't as if he said oh i didn't mean that he he he stood

00:13:31.520 by what he said to steven miller that these things were her idea and that he didn't want to do them

00:13:36.200 and that after she left he continued to go on and on about how the problem with tech companies is

00:13:41.500 they don't have enough masculine energy you know so he it's to me it seems like he's standing by

00:13:47.020 those comments yeah mark zuckerberg and steven miller two of the most masculine guys you could

00:13:53.700 imagine. Can you imagine what the conversation must have been like between those two?

00:13:58.300 Oh, I don't want to imagine it.

00:14:00.060 I can only imagine it was forced. So what is Sheryl Sandberg up to now?

00:14:05.640 Well, Sheryl Sandberg is trying to get women to lean out from wanting to be trad wives and lean 1.00

00:14:11.340 in to using AI. Lean In, her organization, just put out some new research that digs into how

00:14:18.620 women use AI in the workplace relative to their male counterparts, which basically says that

00:14:23.580 women are adopting AI less in workplaces. Lean In found that 78% of men had used AI in the

00:14:30.340 workplace when compared to 73% of women. Men also reported using AI more regularly. About

00:14:36.060 a third of men use AI daily, while only 27% of women did the same. We actually discussed a lot

00:14:42.200 of similar findings in an episode of the podcast that we'll put in the show notes. In reading about

00:14:47.140 Lean In's position on this, I think Sandberg is clearly adopting a kind of framing that says that,

00:14:52.740 oh, women aren't using AI, and that means that women are going to be left behind professionally

00:14:57.220 and economically. This framing is very, very common, but it's not framing that I personally

00:15:02.680 subscribe to, which we get into in that episode that I'll put in the show notes. But that's like

00:15:07.460 her framing, that we got to get more women using AI so that women don't get left behind economically 0.98

00:15:12.880 and in workplaces. She also hired a brand new CEO for Lean In named Bridget, spelled correctly, 0.81

00:15:20.280 by the way, as it should be spelled, Bridget Griswold, who is a former meta product manager 0.97

00:15:25.860 who just entered the workforce three years ago. So she's newly hired from her last position 0.52

00:15:33.680 as AI and product director to the chief executive from that position to now being the CEO of this 0.51

00:15:41.620 massive women's empowerment nonprofit lean in, despite having zero traditional nonprofit

00:15:48.940 leadership experience according to the wall street journal when i read that in your notes for this

00:15:54.940 episode i was like oh bridget must have made a typo here or something let me look this woman up

00:16:00.080 and so i i looked at her linkedin which is just right there and you it's not a typo like 0.81

00:16:06.200 in 2022 her position was intern and then from that she catapulted to a product manager

00:16:13.720 position at Meta and is now CEO of Sheryl Sandberg's organization, which is just a meteoric rise for

00:16:22.660 anybody. That is definitely one way to put it. This is kind of interesting for a lot of reasons.

00:16:31.140 A bunch of longtime staffers at Lean In quit after this Bridget was promoted. More than a dozen

00:16:37.200 employees, roughly a quarter of the foundation staff departed over the last year through layoffs

00:16:43.400 and resignations, with Griswold's rapid promotion and lack of non-profit experience being cited by

00:16:48.800 insiders as a key factor driving the exodus, according to the journal. And I do have to

00:16:55.280 just mention this. You kind of obliquely alluded to it earlier, but if you have read the memoir

00:17:02.740 Careless People, which you should read because it's really a phenomenal piece of writing,

00:17:06.900 That book makes allegations about how Sheryl Sandberg always wanted to have young, attractive female staffers around her.

00:17:18.080 There's an allegation made that Sheryl Sandberg expected or invited these young, attractive female staffers to cuddle with her in bed during overnight trips on private planes and such.

00:17:29.780 Sheryl Sandberg would reportedly buy them lingerie.

00:17:32.680 according to careless people if these were not things that you were down with if you were invited

00:17:38.580 to do these things and you didn't want to do them it could harm your career so I feel like I need to

00:17:43.700 say that just because if I had read allegations of this kind of workplace behavior about a man

00:17:52.380 I would definitely have something to say about it I would have some raised eyebrows and then 0.99

00:17:57.440 seeing a very young woman be you know i guess i don't want to i don't want to say the wrong thing

00:18:05.140 i just think it's i think i think it's worth noting that this was a allegation made by someone

00:18:11.940 who was working under cheryl sandberg i think that i think that's important context for people

00:18:17.560 to understand this leadership change it feels like potentially very relevant context yeah i mean

00:18:24.140 And promoting somebody to be CEO who has no nonprofit experience, who only entered the

00:18:31.760 workforce as an intern a handful of years ago, it's a curious move, you know?

00:18:38.960 Curious.

00:18:40.120 And I'll say people, I've worked at a lot of nonprofits.

00:18:44.240 People might think, oh, a nonprofit, it's not really a big, serious organization.

00:18:49.340 The nonprofit world is cutthroat.

00:18:50.680 And people have a lot of experience. And yeah, this is not really the kind of meteoric rise that I've heard of a lot. Someone going from, you know, intern to CEO of a big nonprofit in this a couple of years. That's not something that I have heard of a lot.

00:19:14.440 So Sheryl Sandberg wants Lean In to focus more on combating tradwife sensibilities.

00:19:21.560 In a LinkedIn post, Sandberg criticized the tradwife online movement, calling it a recycled 1.00

00:19:26.300 idea that could push women to give up their careers and revert back to old-fashioned gender 1.00

00:19:30.400 roles, which I absolutely agree with and think that she's right on the money there. 1.00

00:19:34.660 She also raised alarm about the timing, citing data suggesting that younger men are growing

00:19:40.180 more supportive of super traditional gender dynamics and marriage dynamics and encouraged

00:19:45.700 women to push back against what she sees as these outdated assumptions about where women belong,

00:19:51.680 both at home and in the workplace. So I don't disagree with any of that. I think that she's

00:19:56.880 right on the money there. But I don't really see how telling women to embrace AI is going to be

00:20:03.700 the thing that makes women want to turn away from trad white lifestyles. And I guess I just don't

00:20:09.660 actually trust that someone like Sheryl Sandberg is going to know what will actually support women

00:20:16.120 in this moment. Leaning in and girlbossing did not save women. I don't think that meaningfully 1.00

00:20:22.840 got women a lot. I would actually argue that a mindset that tells women to just lean in and 1.00

00:20:28.700 kick butt through things like systemic failures and systemic lack of support systems that you 1.00

00:20:35.040 did not create caused a lot of us to burn out. And frankly, it's probably one of the reasons why

00:20:40.920 people are able to repackage tradwipery into something that looks kind of appealing online

00:20:47.200 when it just actually isn't. So I would argue that leaning in, Sheryl Sandberg's big answer

00:20:54.740 to all of these problems didn't actually work for women. So now it's AI. We already know that 0.54

00:21:01.240 emerging evidence suggests that women's labor may be disproportionately vulnerable to ai labor

00:21:07.260 displacement so i don't know i'm not sure how telling people to embrace like full-throatedly

00:21:13.840 embrace ai is going to be the thing that then combats women wanting to check out of the workforce

00:21:21.100 you know what i'm saying i do it does feel like these are two pretty different things like

00:21:29.680 confronting trad wifery which uh is a phrase that i had not heard before but i i do kind of like

00:21:37.180 the phrase trad wifery uh not the concept just the the phrase itself but pushing back against

00:21:46.360 that certainly seems like a good thing to do but like you said and therefore we need to

00:21:56.420 encourage all women to embrace ai feels like not it doesn't feel like a solution to the problem

00:22:06.860 of women being exposed to trad wife messaging like these these seem like two different things

00:22:16.800 that don't really have a whole lot to do with each other so if anything i would argue that

00:22:22.860 telling more people to just full-throatedly embrace AI, because we know there is such a risk

00:22:28.060 for human labor displacement. I would actually argue that if you, if your whole thing is you want

00:22:33.740 women robustly showing up in a workforce and being paid what they're actually worth and being able to

00:22:39.660 make economic and professional and educational moves for themselves, I actually don't know that 0.98

00:22:44.000 full-throated embrace of AI will lead to that. If anything, I think it will lead to the opposite.

00:22:49.960 Like, we'll all we'll all be able to be trad wives and stay home making bread because we're not having a fucking job. 0.98

00:22:55.420 Like, that's I feel I feel like she's not like thinking it through. 0.97

00:22:58.080 Yeah, that's the big gamble that we're all making right now.

00:23:01.440 And I guess my larger point is maybe we should stop listening to Sheryl Sandberg.

00:23:09.540 Let's take a quick break.

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00:24:17.200 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:24:22.680 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:24:29.040 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:24:32.760 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:24:38.180 shut up, don't say anything.

00:24:40.840 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:24:45.380 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

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00:25:16.860 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:25:22.800 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

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00:26:22.560 And we're back.

00:26:26.460 Okay, so we talked about what happened at the BAFTAs earlier this year. The BAFTAs are kind

00:26:32.600 of like the British Oscars. So just to give you a bit of a recap, John Davidson, who has the

00:26:38.040 neurological condition Tourette's, was at the Baptist ceremony back in February to celebrate

00:26:43.200 this film about his life. He has a particular kind of Tourette's that involves tics, where he

00:26:50.520 sometimes uncontrollably shouts out things. And it's when that happens, it's like the worst thing

00:26:57.160 that you could imagine saying. So the most contextually awful, offensive thing that one

00:27:02.920 can say. And so at the BAFTAs, he yelled out the N-word at the first award of the night being

00:27:09.460 presented by the Sinners team, Michael D. Jordan and Delroy Lindo, who were Black. There were other

00:27:15.100 things that he yelled out, like yelling out pedophile while the BAFTAs award ceremony host,

00:27:20.500 Alan Cumming, was speaking. But those did not make it into the broadcast. They were edited out.

00:27:25.900 Also edited out was a speech where Ekinola Davies Jr. said, free Palestine during his winning speech. That was also edited out. However, the N-word was kept in the broadcast, even as Sony executives asked the Baptists not to include it in the broadcast. But they did.

00:27:45.840 But after this happened, Davidson gave an interview where it sounded like to me he had been kind of set up by the Baptist.

00:27:54.060 He said that the Baptist told him that he would be seated very far from the stage and that no one would hear anything if you were to experience a tick.

00:28:02.240 But then somehow there was a live microphone in front of him for some reason.

00:28:08.440 And, like, when he was experiencing tics, he did not realize initially that people could even hear them because he was told you'll be sitting in a place where people won't hear them.

00:28:17.740 I remember talking about this story and looking into it, and that was my conclusion, too.

00:28:23.200 Like, it did sound like he had been set up.

00:28:25.200 Like there was just to believe that it was an unintentional accident, one would need to believe a whole series of really weird, almost unexplainable events transpired.

00:28:41.700 That is exactly how I would describe the results of the investigation, which we now have.

00:28:47.680 So the BAFTAs said they were going to look into this. This week, we have the results of the investigation from the BBC's Executive Complaints Unit, or ECU, about what went wrong. What you just said, that you would have to believe so many random things all happened at once, just happened to happen, that's essentially what they're saying happened.

00:29:07.580 So this is from Sky News. In its report, the ECU said members of the production team monitoring the ceremony in an outside broadcast vehicle said they did not hear or recognize the N-word.

00:29:19.120 Investigators accepted their account, agreeing the word, quote, was extremely indistinct to the point where it might well have not been recognized.

00:29:28.100 So they didn't they didn't realize it was the N-word.

00:29:31.740 okay sure so they also say about 10 minutes later there was another recurrence of the n-word which

00:29:39.120 was recognized and quote immediately edited out in accordance with the protocols of offensive

00:29:44.660 language there is no reason to conclude that they would have applied the protocols in one case

00:29:49.960 while deliberately ignoring them in the other the ecu report said um i mean that's a pretty

00:29:57.600 generous assumption that they're making i'm so curious how they came to this conclusion but

00:30:05.380 okay okay but remember one of the big issues was that the word was not edited out of the

00:30:11.980 recorded version of the broadcast later because certainly by then all parties knew it contained

00:30:18.980 the slur there was no confusion about what the word was by that point so what happened there

00:30:24.440 Well, investigators said there was a, quote, lack of clarity among the team as to whether the word was audible, which resulted in a delay of several hours.

00:30:35.160 This was a, quote, serious mistake because there could be no certainty that the word would be inaudible to all viewers, they said, adding that the unedited recording remained available, quote, for so long, aggravated the offense caused by the inadvertent inclusion of the word during the initial broadcast.

00:30:53.280 So this part makes no sense to me, right? Like this part, if I'm understanding it correctly, they were saying that for several hours, which we know that almost immediately after it occurred, Warner Brothers went to the BBC, who is producing the show, and explicitly asked them to edit it out and make sure that it was edited out.

00:31:14.740 So that happened right away. So according to this investigation, we're meant to believe that for several hours, the BBC production team was like debating with itself whether or not the word was actually audible.

00:31:31.080 and so like my question is like why not edit it out just to be safe like even if it's like so

00:31:38.800 quiet that nobody can hear it just edit it out and if it truly is so quiet nobody will hear it

00:31:44.920 nobody will ever know the difference why not do that that part makes no sense also

00:31:50.700 if you're doing if you're if you've got a tape delayed broadcast and you can make

00:31:57.300 And they clearly, as we'll get to in a minute, they clearly had a lot of editorial decisions to make about what to cut and what to leave in. So you've got to broadcast. Let's say I believe them, which I fucking don't, but let's say that I do.

00:32:11.880 why is it okay to have it be like well something was screamed out but don't worry it's not audible 0.94

00:32:18.900 people people aren't gonna be it's not it's not clearly recognizable as a slur it'll just be like

00:32:25.620 an unrecognizable thing that is yelled out why is that better just like just you know what i mean

00:32:32.680 like as you said just cut it out like why in why include that why include it i mean

00:32:40.400 yeah it's a great question i i struggle to think of any answer why they wouldn't just cut it out

00:32:50.340 and i just don't believe it i guess that's what i guess that's what it comes down to

00:32:53.140 the whole thing of them saying we didn't know that was going to be audible or not

00:32:58.860 what do you mean i i i feel like i need more information about what they mean about that

00:33:03.600 because like yeah like they could hear it yeah but was it audible i don't sure you can hear it

00:33:11.540 but is it audible but is it audible it's not even a good lie okay so what about the fact that free

00:33:18.500 palestine was cut out of out of a speech for the broadcast while the n-word was left in well per

00:33:25.620 sky news the investigation found that the production team's decision quote did not hinge

00:33:30.580 on considerations of impartiality, but rather the main consideration was cutting out an hour

00:33:36.480 of the three-hour show to fit the two-hour broadcast. Quote, as is usual in coverage

00:33:42.400 of events of this kind, cuts were made in some of the longer acceptance speeches, including that of

00:33:47.240 Mr. Davies, the report said. The ECU found the editing of the speech did not raise an issue of

00:33:52.860 editorial standards. So just totally random that they cut Free Palestine. Yeah, just random. Just

00:33:59.920 random that they cut Free Palestine. It could have been anything, you know, it could have been

00:34:03.640 anything that they cut. I'm glad that they threw that part in there as well, just to make it clear

00:34:10.120 that their conclusions are bullshit. Yes, yes. I will say this was nice to hear that the ECU 1.00

00:34:16.300 report noted that the complaints about the broadcast all showed a high level of awareness

00:34:20.920 that Mr. Davidson's interjection was an involuntary result of his condition and that no blame was

00:34:26.760 attached to him because he has a condition so he is not to blame for this the bath says and the bbc

00:34:34.380 are to blame for this so i mean i guess i'm happy that most people are keeping the smoke on the bbc

00:34:41.700 and the bath does where it belongs but i am disheartened to see that they're like and also

00:34:46.240 it kind of wasn't our fault either you know no we were doing our best we were just locked in an

00:34:52.860 internal debate for several hours about whether or not this thing that we all heard was actually

00:34:59.940 audible and should be cut from the broadcast and that we were told to cut from the broadcast and

00:35:04.620 we said that we would cut from the broadcast and we just didn't cut it from the broadcast

00:35:07.480 the report didn't say anything that i saw about why davidson was sat next to a mic or why it took

00:35:14.540 so long for the baptists or the bbc to meaningfully reach out to the sinners cast about what happened

00:35:20.080 or what was being done to make any kind of amends

00:35:23.140 for this catastrophic failure.

00:35:25.540 I think, honestly, they could have written anything

00:35:28.040 in this investigation report, and I would still be mad.

00:35:32.320 I think I personally will probably die mad about it,

00:35:34.700 and that just has to be it.

00:35:35.900 There's a lot of stuff like that these days.

00:35:38.540 So quick trigger warning on this next story,

00:35:41.580 because it's a little bit rough.

00:35:43.400 We have talked a lot about non-consensual AI-generated images

00:35:47.560 of women and girls this year,

00:35:49.120 And now an Ohio man who pled guilty to cyber crimes involving both real and AI-generated sexually explicit images has become what the Department of Justice says is the first person to be convicted under the Take It Down Act, that new federal AI statute.

00:36:07.140 So according to prosecutors, James Straller II targeted at least six adult women between December 2024 and June of 2025, sending them harassing messages along with both real and AI-generated explicit images of these women.

00:36:23.960 So he would obtain or make these images of the women and then send them to the women he was harassing.

00:36:28.720 He used AI to create pornographic videos depicting at least one of the victims in sex acts with her father and then shared those videos with her co-workers as part of a larger harassment campaign.

00:36:41.420 Sounds like a real cool guy.

00:36:43.940 Yeah, a real winner.

00:36:45.940 He also reportedly contacted the mom of his victims, threatening to distribute the explicit material that he had created of their daughters unless the mothers sent him nude photos of themselves.

00:36:57.080 So he was basically like trying to extort the mothers of the victims that he was harassing in descending nude images.

00:37:06.040 Prosecutors further allege that he repeatedly called the victims leaving voicemails of himself either masturbating or threatening sexual violence.

00:37:13.540 So The Guardian reports that he admitted to cyber stalking, producing obscene visual representations of child sexual abuse and publication of digital forgeries.

00:37:22.120 So that last charge, the digital forgeries charge, relates to the Take It Down Act, which

00:37:28.360 prohibits non-consensual online publication of intimate visual depictions and AI forgeries.

00:37:33.980 So this legislation prohibits anyone from knowingly publishing or threatened to publish

00:37:39.220 intimate images, including AI-generated deepfake images, without consent.

00:37:45.040 Social media companies and websites must remove the violating content within 48 hours following

00:37:51.300 a victim's request. The U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Ohio said,

00:37:56.220 We believe Stroller is the first person in the U.S. to be convicted under the Take It Down Act.

00:38:01.520 We will not tolerate the abhorrent practice of posting and publicizing AI-generated intimate

00:38:06.820 images of real individuals without consent. And boy, oh boy, do I wish that were true.

00:38:13.260 Because Grok is still being used to generate non-consensual images of women and girls,

00:38:19.860 Even while high school girls are taking Elon Musk to court over it, a group of high school girls just sued Elon Musk over Grok being used to create AI-generated images of them, and they are minors.

00:38:33.880 Yet, Musk is still doing business. Payment processors are still supporting payment transactions for people to purchase Grok and X subscriptions, even as the EU says that Grok is being used to create illegal content of minors.

00:38:49.440 so yeah i wish it were true that we won't tolerate this happening but i don't think

00:38:55.460 that actually is the truth that's so disappointing because it's so true you know it's like you

00:39:02.600 it almost feels like a little bit of a win like a creep is prosecuted and women who have been

00:39:12.940 targeted by what seemed like pretty disturbing crimes uh get some justice and you almost feel

00:39:20.800 good about that but then you just look at the uneven inconsistent way that the administration

00:39:30.320 and the justice department apply things like this and it clearly is like two sets of rules right

00:39:40.100 Like one for people that they want to target, which in this case, it seems like they targeted a legitimate creep, but then a totally different set of rules for their allies like Musk, who, like you said, is just continuing to sell subscriptions to software that does exactly the same thing that this guy was just convicted for.

00:40:03.820 exactly it's so clearly two set of rules and unequal enforcement so yeah i wish i wish that

00:40:10.580 we did live in a world where this stuff was taken seriously and that we wouldn't tolerate it but

00:40:14.380 we don't because of exactly what you just said that the powers that be are invested in letting

00:40:19.700 people that they like and their allies get away with it profit from it laugh about it diminish it

00:40:26.420 continue to do it find new ways to do it build an empire on it and i hate it and so yeah i i think

00:40:32.660 until that institutional wrong is righted, I just, I wish I could agree that we take it seriously,

00:40:40.100 as this district attorney said, but I don't. All the evidence is pointing to the fact that we don't.

00:40:45.220 The Take It Down Act only works if somebody complains. And so somebody has to know, like,

00:40:50.820 if I'm not on X, I have no idea that this image of me is on there. And so like, nobody has to,

00:40:56.900 no platform, I don't, I'm not a big fan of this legislation, because I think it puts a big burden

00:41:02.080 on the survivor to, first of all, be on the platform where this is happening, make the

00:41:07.460 request, and then follow through with it to make sure that that 48 hours window abides

00:41:15.120 by.

00:41:15.340 There's lots of different ways to do legislation.

00:41:17.300 I think this legislation puts way too much of the burden on the victim.

00:41:24.340 More after a quick break.

00:41:25.440 my suv's worth more than ever time to upgrade there's never been a better time at plaza auto

00:41:37.720 group locations get top value for your trade and shop hundreds of new and pre-owned vehicles

00:41:42.660 across 11 locations and if you can't come to us we'll come to you with best in class pricing

00:41:48.540 unbeatable trade values and 70 years of trust it's easy to see why families choose the plaza

00:41:54.340 Auto Group. Plaza Auto Group. Celebrating 70 years family-owned and operated. Visit

00:41:59.540 plazaautogroup.com. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More

00:42:05.440 Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as

00:42:10.240 the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your

00:42:14.880 customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to

00:42:19.560 audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming,

00:42:25.280 radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com.

00:42:31.820 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived,

00:42:38.720 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:42:44.220 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:42:47.840 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:42:53.260 shut up, don't say anything.

00:42:55.920 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:43:00.120 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:43:04.900 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:43:11.980 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:43:16.440 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:43:19.900 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:43:23.500 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:43:31.960 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:43:36.940 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:43:50.360 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:43:57.340 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:44:00.500 from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments

00:44:05.500 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling

00:44:12.040 characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart

00:44:17.320 pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much

00:44:22.060 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

00:44:28.540 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Let's get right back into it.

00:44:43.900 So this is a quick story that I'm glad we're talking about because I think it has some

00:44:49.140 very practical implications. 404 Media published an article today about what they said is the first

00:44:57.160 trial in which people were charged as terrorists for antifa activities uh antifa stands for

00:45:03.420 anti-fascist being opposed to fascists has been criminalized by the trump administration

00:45:08.440 so uh despite the fact that antifa is really just more of like a general idea than any sort

00:45:15.360 of organization uh trump declared it a terrorist organization in september and so in this particular

00:45:23.620 trial, a group of people who allegedly set off fireworks and vandalized an ICE facility in Texas

00:45:30.340 were arrested. And because of that declaration, they are being charged as terrorists.

00:45:38.260 So one detail that's emerged from the trial is that a big part of the evidence that was presented

00:45:45.020 against them is from the defendant's signal messages, which the FBI was able to recover

00:45:50.540 from the phone of one of the defendants

00:45:53.680 who was charged with setting off the fireworks.

00:45:56.980 As listeners know, we are huge fans of Signal here at Tangody.

00:46:02.400 It's the primary messaging app that we use

00:46:04.520 for talking about show production stuff

00:46:06.380 as well as just personal conversations.

00:46:09.040 It's free, it's secure, and in my opinion,

00:46:13.060 everyone should be using it all the time

00:46:14.700 as our default messaging app.

00:46:17.420 Both Bridget and I give monthly donations

00:46:19.820 but not because we want to unlock some special features or anything because everybody gets all

00:46:26.060 the special features uh for free uh it's just because we really like it and want to support it

00:46:32.400 um it's run by a non-profit i think it's a great model for what valuable software can be

00:46:38.440 they don't sponsor the show in any way um i'm just talking like this because i genuinely

00:46:43.460 really like what they have built and put into the world as you said i'm a big fan of signal but

00:46:49.660 I have to ask, if Signal is so secure, how did the FBI gain access to these defendants' messages?

00:46:56.340 That is a great question, Bridget. And that is a big part of why I wanted to cover this

00:47:00.940 segment here, almost as like a public service announcement for listeners. So like pretty much

00:47:06.900 all messaging apps, when you receive an incoming text on your phone via Signal, you get a notification

00:47:12.720 on your phone that tells you that you have a new message. By default, that notification includes

00:47:18.680 a preview of the actual message contents, the first 100 characters or so of what it says.

00:47:25.940 And this is the problem. And this is how the FBI was able to access the defendant's messages,

00:47:31.780 even though they had been deleted from Signal. They were no longer accessible from the Signal

00:47:36.920 app itself, but they were still able to be found in the phone's notification history.

00:47:43.520 So even though the message had been deleted within the app, a copy still existed within that notification history in the phone's operating system.

00:47:53.760 And so that's what the prosecutors presented in court.

00:47:57.200 And it's a good reminder that despite all of the apps, like sophisticated encryption and very careful design features in so many ways, that one user setting and the way it was configured undermined all of that and left those messages exposed.

00:48:15.260 Wow. So if anybody listening wants to fix this, what should they be doing?

00:48:20.180 Yes, they should change that setting.

00:48:22.200 And I would urge everybody to do this, uh, like right now while you're listening, why

00:48:28.060 not?

00:48:28.380 What else have you got to do?

00:48:29.460 Dry your hands from doing the dishes or whatever you're doing while you listen to this, um,

00:48:33.420 go to the signal app, go to settings notifications, and then click on show.

00:48:39.140 And that will give you some options about what information gets shown in notifications.

00:48:43.440 You have three options.

00:48:44.640 You can choose name and message, which is the least secure.

00:48:47.940 That's what these people who are now being charged as terrorists had.

00:48:51.900 So you probably don't want that.

00:48:53.760 You could also choose name only.

00:48:56.700 So it just shows you the name of the person who messaged you, but none of the content of the message itself.

00:49:01.760 Or you could choose no name or message, which would be the most secure.

00:49:06.600 You should, in my opinion, you should choose one of those latter two options, depending on how secure you want to be.

00:49:15.260 And that will keep the contents of your messages out of your phone's notification history.

00:49:19.720 um i actually think it's really unfortunate that one of those more secure options even the name

00:49:27.660 only option isn't the default on signal we know that defaults really matter a lot for how people

00:49:34.140 engage with apps like the reality is that most people install an app and probably never change

00:49:41.140 the defaults and so for an app that markets itself so strongly on security it feels a little

00:49:48.280 bit like a miss to leave something so important to the responsibility of the end user and

00:49:55.280 I hope they change that honestly but in the meantime until they do I would really urge

00:50:04.920 everybody who values their privacy to make that change and I know some of you were thinking I

00:50:11.580 don't go to protests I'm not an activist I'm not a journalist this is not the kind of thing that I

00:50:15.980 need to think about that is actually not true because good personal digital security is important

00:50:21.480 for everyone i always tell my friends who say that to me i'm like well i am a journalist and

00:50:25.920 an activist and you know me and i'm in your phone so have good digital security to protect your

00:50:30.320 friend b who is these things even if you're not yes that is such a great point right like it's

00:50:35.780 not just about everybody protecting themselves it's about all of us protecting everybody in

00:50:41.900 our networks our our families our friends uh our acquaintances right like uh good digital security

00:50:52.040 i think is just a good practice for all of them especially like just look at the world right like

00:51:00.260 look outside look at any headlines in any newspaper listen to the stories that we cover on this show

00:51:07.740 like how many people have we covered where just some normal non-celebrity everyday person going

00:51:15.760 about their life who all of a sudden for reasons outside their control is thrust into an internet

00:51:21.620 maelstrom where they have to contend with being doxed and harassed and coordinated attacks from

00:51:28.480 people who just want to harm them uh it's it's unfortunate but it happens and i you know i don't

00:51:38.280 think we need to live our lives in fear or like unreasonable paranoia but i think just in case it

00:51:46.480 is it's important to take steps to protect our privacy uh and the the privacy of the people

00:51:55.620 that we care about um because once it's the sort of thing that like once you need it it's too late

00:52:03.140 well put

00:52:04.220 more after a quick break

00:52:09.180 my suv is worth more than ever time to upgrade there's never been a better time at plaza auto

00:52:21.500 Group locations get top value for your trade and shop hundreds of new and pre-owned vehicles

00:52:26.440 across 11 locations. And if you can't come to us, we'll come to you. With best-in-class pricing,

00:52:32.600 unbeatable trade values, and 70 years of trust, it's easy to see why families choose the Plaza

00:52:38.100 Auto Group. Plaza Auto Group, celebrating 70 years family-owned and operated. Visit

00:52:43.320 plazaautogroup.com. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More

00:52:49.220 americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as

00:52:53.880 the number one podcaster iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers

00:52:58.680 listen to they'll hear your message plus only iheart can extend your message to audiences

00:53:03.320 across broadcast radio think podcasting can help your business think iheart streaming radio and

00:53:09.180 podcasting call 844-844-iheart to get started that's 844-844-iheart if your bookshelf and

00:53:16.780 your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home this is prose society

00:53:23.400 the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture

00:53:28.500 obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level

00:53:32.800 of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books the internet

00:53:38.140 and the conversations everyone can't stop having i'm gonna have to look up this story i'm obsessed

00:53:43.700 so obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop

00:53:48.400 culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside

00:53:54.860 compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep

00:54:00.060 dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little

00:54:05.080 too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:54:11.840 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:13.720 See you between the pages.

00:54:15.800 When I was 14 years old,

00:54:18.080 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:54:21.600 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring

00:54:24.300 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:54:27.880 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:54:31.520 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:54:37.180 shut up, don't say anything.

00:54:39.840 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:54:44.380 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:54:48.940 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:54:56.380 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:55:00.340 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:55:03.780 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:55:06.920 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:21.640 Let's get right back into it.

00:55:26.340 Okay, so the courts have found time and time again that the state cannot force somebody to undergo medical treatment,

00:55:33.120 even if that medical treatment might save someone else's life.

00:55:37.360 But there is a pretty big glaring exception, and that is people who are giving birth.

00:55:43.580 ProPublica has this horrifying investigation that we'll put in the show notes

00:55:47.600 about Black women who are being forced by the courts to undergo C-sections

00:55:52.620 when they don't want to have C-sections. 0.96

00:55:55.140 In the one ProPublica piece, she talks about a Black woman named Sharice,

00:55:59.480 who herself is a doula so she has some experience around childbirth and birthing. Her water breaks, 0.74

00:56:07.160 she goes to the hospital in Florida. This is how ProPublica reports on what happened next.

00:56:12.320 Doctors told her they were concerned about the risk of uterine rupture, a potentially deadly

00:56:17.300 complication for her and her baby. Sharice understood the risk to be less than 2% and

00:56:22.060 repeatedly told doctors she would not consent to a cesarean without trying to have a vaginal

00:56:27.320 delivery first. The doctors appeared to relent, leaving her to labor for several more hours.

00:56:33.260 Then a nursing supervisor wheeled a tablet up to her bed and informed her that she was in court.

00:56:39.940 The reason? Failing to agree to a C-section. So ProPublica has the video of her Zoom court hearing,

00:56:48.780 and it is exactly what you're thinking. She is very much in a hospital bed. She is undressed.

00:56:55.380 She's got that like hair cap thingy on that they make you wear when you're in the hospital.

00:56:59.780 She's hooked up to IVs.

00:57:01.900 She is very much somebody who was in the middle of attempting labor while also being forced

00:57:07.560 to do a Zoom court hearing with seven strangers, judges and court administrators.

00:57:14.180 I looked at that video and it is horrifying.

00:57:18.100 It's like something out of a parody because there's so many people in that Zoom call.

00:57:23.280 And not only is she the only black person on that Zoom call, but she's like in a hospital bed, hooked up to IVs, in labor, in active labor.

00:57:38.680 It it's it seems like a parody if it weren't so like horrifying and upsetting.

00:57:45.480 Yes, ProPublica obtained that video of her Zoom court hearing and got her consent to share the story. In that Zoom call, you can basically hear her arguing her case for wanting to do this vaginal birth and not wanting a C-section. 0.95

00:58:02.000 And exactly as you said, it's, it's just horrifying. Like it's, it's like the, the image of a black woman who was like this hooked up to all the machines and very much in a hospital while having to kind of plead her case about what she wants to do with her own body to a bunch of white guys is, it's just horrifying.

00:58:23.420 I don't want to be a statistic. And I came here out of precaution. However, I still have rights as an American citizen and as a patient that I am allowed to decide what goes on with me and my body and my baby.

00:58:42.500 Well, let me ask you about that. What about the risks of the child? The doctors testified about some risks and help me understand that.

00:58:50.000 in regards to what because she's saying that the uterine rupture can cause the placenta to

00:58:58.580 to abrupt and it's a lot of what ifs and maybes anytime you go into childbirth whether you do a

00:59:05.700 vaginal or a c-section there is inherent risk to the mother and the baby so

00:59:11.240 if it's between them choosing whether i have to live or the baby has to live i did tell

00:59:19.880 them that I want to live I have other children out here in the world that need me and that is

00:59:26.240 my right because at the end of the day if I die from a c-section nobody on this call is going to

00:59:31.400 take care of my children and that's just being frank okay so I am concerned about the well-being

00:59:38.160 of my child but at the end of the day with my background I can read a trace just like they can

00:59:44.560 And there's nothing that is saying that this is an emergency situation that I have to be rushed into a C-section within an hour.

00:59:52.780 At one point on the Zoom hearing, she asked for an attorney or at least to have a patient advocate present for the conversation.

01:00:00.720 But Florida courts do not require lawyers for pregnant women in hearings about their medical decisions.

01:00:05.700 And the hospital, I guess, just didn't provide her a patient advocate. 0.94

01:00:09.140 So she has to advocate for herself. 0.95

01:00:11.140 I will say, though, I can tell that she's doing that thing where you're absolutely fucking furious, but you know you've got to hold it together because if you give them ammo for them to be like, oh, you're like a crazy, angry black woman right now, even though she is legitimately going through a situation that is genuinely enraging, I can tell that she is really trying to keep her composure and speak in a certain kind of way and advocate for herself. 0.96

01:00:39.620 And she's a doula, so she knows what she's talking about. And she's really drawing on her experience as a doula to advocate for herself. So I guess I say that to say, like, kudos to her for advocating for herself so well, under such duress, but she absolutely should not have to. 0.97

01:00:58.960 So she explains her reasons for not wanting a C-section, and they're very reasonable. They're things like infection and not wanting to have a long recovery along with the risk of death. She talks about how she is very worried that she will not be able to care for her other children if she is struggling with recovery from a C-section, which is pretty major surgery, and whatever potential complications might come from it.

01:01:24.040 She also says to the Zoom court judges and administrators, if something happens to her and she were to die in that C-section, her children would go into foster care.

01:01:35.520 And she says, nobody on this Zoom court hearing is going to take care of my kids if something happens to me while I'm getting this major surgery.

01:01:43.880 So I don't feel like any of you all can tell me what I should do with my body in childbirth.

01:01:49.740 So that hearing lasted for two hours. At one point, she asked if she could transfer to a different hospital. And they were like, oh, that's probably not likely because that new hospital would have to admit you was a patient.

01:02:02.180 She also then asks if she can have a Black doctor or at least a Black nurse work with her.

01:02:08.120 The judge, again, who was a white man, he almost sort of laughs at her and says, well, I don't see how race has anything to do with this.

01:02:15.940 And he wouldn't be saying that if he knew the statistics around Black maternal mortality in this country.

01:02:21.400 And she actually checks him on this. 0.87

01:02:22.900 She says, well, as a doula, I can tell you the medical outcomes are better when Black people have doctors that look like them. 0.51

01:02:32.760 Their health outcomes are better, which is just like a fact.

01:02:35.580 Like, again, I can I can my heart breaks for her because I can see her having to draw from like very specific expertise and very specific experiences to communicate this in a way that might have a chance of getting through.

01:02:48.400 So she doesn't just sound like some, you know, difficult Black woman.

01:02:52.220 And she makes another good point where she says, I don't want anybody who is in involved in me having to do this, this like Zoom court hearing while I'm trying to give birth.

01:03:00.880 I don't want any of these people involved in operating me on this when I'm under for a C-section, which I completely understand because these people already clearly, clearly see her as difficult and like argumentative and problematic.

01:03:14.220 I can understand why she's like, now I don't trust any of these people to be operating on me while I'm under for a C-section.

01:03:20.000 Yeah, they really talked down to her a lot in that hearing, too, in ways that are just, like, pretty surprising. Maybe shouldn't be surprising.

01:03:29.920 Yeah, it just is a really bad, horrifying situation. So the judge did not order an

01:03:37.360 immediate C-section, but he did say the hospital could perform one in an emergency without her

01:03:42.020 consent. In the end, her baby was born via C-section. And after the baby was born,

01:03:48.500 immediately after, they made her do another session of Zoom court, even before she was

01:03:53.580 taken to the neonatal unit to see her baby. At that point, she was like, you all can do this

01:03:57.900 meeting on your own. I want to see my baby. Like, I don't give a fuck what you all have to say.

01:04:02.660 I'm done. So the ProPublica journalist who wrote this piece, Amy Urkarian, covers reproductive 0.99

01:04:08.360 health and is based in Alabama. And she writes, throughout my career, I focused on women facing

01:04:13.160 the consequences of the state's fetal personhood policy. That's the idea that fetuses should have 1.00

01:04:18.540 the same legal status as children. My investigation shows how a similar theory played into the cases

01:04:23.960 of two women, Cherie Stoyle and Brianna Bennett, who was another Black woman who was also forced

01:04:28.920 to have a court-ordered C-section. These women experienced eerily similar situations in Florida.

01:04:34.560 In both cases, they found themselves fighting for their rights to make medical decisions

01:04:38.720 because they were pregnant. And so her piece also goes on to sort of contend with the fact that

01:04:44.080 OBGYNs do have a unique challenge in that they're simultaneously caring for two patients,

01:04:49.740 the mother and the baby. And the needs of those two patients do not always align.

01:04:56.120 And so when conflicts arise, which can happen, the American College of Obstetricians and

01:05:01.720 Gynecologists, their own ethical guidelines say that doctors should put the mother's well-being

01:05:07.340 first. But in practice, that does not always happen. And so they talked to this professor

01:05:13.760 of law at Drexel University, Elizabeth Kukura, who says that basically these cases reveal this

01:05:20.360 pattern of doctors prioritizing the fetus over the mother, which is a dynamic that is sort of

01:05:26.540 rooted in this tendency to view women primarily through the lens of our reproductive function,

01:05:33.000 that we're not kind of humans with agency and responsibility, let alone the need to like care

01:05:38.780 for other children that we may have or live life or not want to be dead. We are meant to just be

01:05:45.780 vessels for carrying children rather than patients with agency in our own right. And we also see

01:05:54.660 Sharice talking to the doctors and arguing with them saying, you know, I've made it clear that

01:05:59.080 if it came down to my life or the baby's life that I would rather live because I've got other

01:06:04.760 kids I need to care for and I don't want those kids going into the system I think there is a

01:06:09.060 little bit of a thing that if you are not willing to sacrifice your life for your child in childbirth

01:06:15.140 then you're like a bad mom and it's just frustrating to hear her have to argue this

01:06:20.300 case of like no I actually it's very important for me to be alive and healthy because I've got

01:06:25.440 children to care for at home and just yeah it's just very heartbreaking yeah the judge explicitly

01:06:32.040 called her a bad mom and said that a good mom would let herself be cut open yeah so

01:06:38.380 just really horrifying okay so i have a less enraging story also about sexual and reproductive

01:06:48.280 health though less horrifying the popular sexual health and wellness company bellessa boutique 0.51

01:06:56.340 said that Instagram permanently deleted their account for using the word clitoris. 0.65

01:07:02.720 Belsa makes sex toys for all genders, and they also have a sister site that is like a porn site 0.98

01:07:07.580 for women. On Instagram, they had over 700,000 followers and a decade's worth of content. I was 0.65

01:07:13.640 actually looking into them, and it sounds like they started on Instagram in earnest. That's

01:07:17.660 where the company started. The company confirmed to Mashable that Meta said that their account was

01:07:23.400 disabled for violating Meta's community standards due to sexually explicit language in organic

01:07:28.180 content. There is no opportunity to appeal, and they also say they got no warning about this

01:07:33.880 specific outcome. However, a Meta spokesperson told Mashable, quote, this account repeatedly

01:07:39.940 posted explicit descriptions of sexual acts and over the last few months was alerted each time

01:07:44.700 it violated our sexually explicit language policy. The CEO of the company told Mashable,

01:07:49.920 For over a decade, hundreds of thousands of people came to the Balesko community to learn about and celebrate their own bodies, a safe, shame-free space to discuss sexual wellness and pleasure.

01:08:00.120 Instagram deleted it for sexually explicit language, meaning discussing women's bodies in a health context is treated as inherently unacceptable.

01:08:08.140 So they showed Mashable the email that Meta had sent them about this.

01:08:11.880 the email said that examples of content that would not be allowed include sexually explicit

01:08:16.900 language that uses explicit or graphic detail about the genitals, states of sexual arousal,

01:08:22.260 or sexual encounters. But we actually know the truth about this. That truth is that that standard

01:08:28.900 really only applies to the genitals of people who are not cisgender men, because meta totally

01:08:35.600 allows ads for things like erectile dysfunction medication or other kinds of content or products

01:08:41.820 that are geared toward men's sexual health and wellness.

01:08:45.900 Back in 2023, a sex toy company called Unbound,

01:08:48.980 which actually used to sponsor our show,

01:08:50.820 but I don't think it does anymore,

01:08:52.280 tested whether or not Meta would approve its product ads

01:08:55.680 if those ads were targeted at men instead of women,

01:08:59.320 and it did. 0.77

01:09:00.920 They built a whole fake brand called Thunder Thrusts

01:09:04.380 geared toward men to see if it would stop their ads

01:09:07.220 about sex products from being taken down

01:09:09.180 if those ads were geared toward men and not women, and guess what? It worked. And that is because

01:09:15.280 Meta absolutely does not equally enforce this standard. And by doing so, they basically decide

01:09:21.960 whose sexual wellness and health is acceptable and whose isn't. A 2025 study by the Center for

01:09:29.380 Intimacy Justice examining how platforms like Meta handle sexual and reproductive health content

01:09:34.540 found widespread suppression. It is like not, it is like very, very documented. Among the groups

01:09:40.660 surveyed, nearly two-thirds had organic content taken down from Meta's platforms, while the vast

01:09:46.280 majority of both businesses and non-profits, 84% and 76% respectively, had their advertisements

01:09:54.540 rejected. This sex toy company, Belsa, is not taking this lying down. They say that they want

01:10:01.080 to pursue legal action against meta over this. And so now they are asking folks to help them

01:10:06.600 build the case that Instagram is using a sexist double standard by sending them evidence of

01:10:13.460 content that you see on Instagram that violates the same standard that was used to ban them.

01:10:19.480 They put a post on threads that said, we need your help. If you come across content on Instagram

01:10:24.080 that violates the same standards they use to ban us, screenshot it and send it to evidence

01:10:28.880 at bellset.co. Help us prove the double standard. Okay, Bridget, thanks for taking me through all

01:10:36.660 those news stories. Before we wrap up here, do you have any updates to share about the audiobook

01:10:43.340 Love at First Prompt that's coming out in July? A little behind-the-scenes update on the audiobook

01:10:50.140 front, which is that we finally finished recording the audiobook audio. I thought that because I am

01:10:59.500 a professional talker as a podcaster for a living, this would be no sweat. Y'all, it actually is quite

01:11:04.720 a lot of work to record an audiobook. And I wanted to give a quick shout out to Sarah Ginsberg,

01:11:11.120 who listens to the show. Hey, Sarah, if you're listening, who is our audiobook director. Who

01:11:17.740 knew that audiobooks have directors they do but sarah is ours and she is fantastic and i don't

01:11:24.560 know if i would have gotten through it without her help um yeah yeah sarah was fantastic really

01:11:32.060 uh just like kind but also clearly very dedicated to her craft of producing high quality audio and

01:11:43.800 it was really exciting to get it all recorded and to have that step in the process wrapped up and

01:11:52.060 i believe that the audio engineers at simon and schuster are editing it putting it together now

01:11:58.260 and so we should have a draft to listen to pretty shortly um and then it's not going to be that long

01:12:07.820 before it's available for listeners to listen to which i'm so excited to hear what people think

01:12:12.040 about it yes uh sarah knows that while we were recording in my home audio booth at different

01:12:19.020 times i lost my voice burst into tears and watched my cat get sick in the booth and sarah was a pro

01:12:28.700 through all of it if you want to hear an audiobook that was recorded through tears lost voice and

01:12:35.120 cat sick please pre-order our audiobook love at first prompt you can do that at love at first

01:12:41.040 prompt.ai if you send us a screenshot of your pre-order you can email us or tag us on social

01:12:46.620 whatever you want to do we will send you a handwritten thank you card and a sticker thank

01:12:50.540 you so much to everybody who's done it so far thank you again sarah no thank you to my cat who

01:12:56.320 chose the least opportune moment to get sick in an audio booth but we still love you sammy

01:13:03.880 yeah and listeners will be happy to know that we did edit that part out so you would never know

01:13:10.540 if you didn't listen to this behind the scenes segment.

01:13:13.420 You're getting this like special BTS content.

01:13:17.380 This is like the author's cut.

01:13:19.400 Yeah.

01:13:19.700 All the cat sick details.

01:13:23.380 All right.

01:13:23.980 Well, thanks for having me here, Bridget.

01:13:25.740 Listeners can let us know what they thought about these stories

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01:13:39.360 Follow the show on YouTube.

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01:13:46.120 We're also on Blue Sky with the same handle.

01:13:49.680 And I think that is everything.

01:13:51.920 So thanks for having me here, Bridget.

01:13:53.640 Great talking with you.

01:13:54.920 Great talking to you too.

01:13:56.100 Thanks for being here.

01:13:56.900 And I will see you on the internet.

01:14:09.360 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.

01:14:13.240 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - April 11, 2026

The Drama with Zendaya; BAFTAs Slur Fallout; Sheryl Sandberg Leans AI; Sex Pest Take-It-Down Conviction; Sex Toys Meta Ban; ANTIFA Terrorism Trial – NEWS ROUNDUP!

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