00:06:29.960Oh, well, this is kind of an unfortunate segue, but it is true that every time Halloween comes around, there's kind of a strange tension for me because usually there's both an election coming up.
00:06:44.520uh but also uh you know when you talk about like what you're really afraid of there's sort of the
00:06:54.640horror movie answer which is very scary and then there's like the real world answer that we're
00:07:00.560living in uh which is also scary uh so it's sort of every time i'm always like i love this more
00:07:09.480halloween seasonal horror movie thing but there's also this real world horrific thing that's
00:07:16.520happening oh yes yeah what is scarier than things like misinformation i mean if there could be an
00:07:27.420evil cackle right now there should be that's my keeper laugh there it is oh wow i love it so
00:07:35.540that was amazing we're gonna we're gonna mark that i won't do that again everybody no we're
00:07:40.120gonna mark that we're gonna save that we're gonna use that as like a meme or something i don't know
00:07:44.760how do i do with this someone put it as a sound cover that was amazing thank you so much so good
00:07:51.500yes we are talking about a lot of misinformation today uh and specifically around a certain topic
00:08:00.260right Bridget? That is right because if y'all have spent any time at all on TikTok lately I
00:08:06.000probably don't need to tell you that social media platforms are awash in misinformation about
00:08:12.820hormonal birth control and I actually find it interesting but also kind of very telling that
00:08:20.700I'm not talking about content that is warning about some specific side effect really about
00:08:26.600birth control. What I'm talking about is sort of this content that has a fit looking young woman
00:08:33.700influencer type promising that you will kind of get a vague feeling of feeling more like you
00:08:39.920if you go off birth control. And so the question they sort of ask is, who am I without birth
00:08:45.520control? Will I feel some sort of a positive difference if I stop using it? Yeah. And you
00:08:51.080know this is not new but it's definitely been amplified by social media and these influencers
00:08:57.880spreading the message oh yes and i guess like that like the thing that social media is specifically
00:09:03.760flooded with is this sort of vibe-based reasoning for coming off birth control right it's not
00:09:08.700i'm having this specific side effect or this specific issue or use case it's no the the vibes
00:09:15.040are all are terrible for birth control and there was a really great piece in the new york times
00:09:19.220called Who Am I Without Birth Control that I looked at that really examines how misinformation
00:09:25.340around birth control is impacting real women. They chronicled a young woman named Ashley,
00:09:30.720who was 26. They write, she had started taking birth control pills a decade earlier when she
00:09:35.600was 15. Now, as she browsed her social media feeds, she kept stumbling on videos of women
00:09:40.740saying how much better they felt when they stopped taking the pill. Content she was not seeking out.
00:09:47.240The post typically went like this, a glowing blonde in a workout top, the picture of health
00:09:52.140saying that she stopped taking birth control pills and immediately felt more clarity of
00:09:56.900mind, like an emotional fog had lifted, like she was a brand new, much happier person.
00:10:03.020So Ashley, seeing all of this, decides to go off birth control pills, cold turkey, which
00:10:08.460is not recommended by doctors, even though she is in a newish relationship with someone
00:10:14.200And they both agreed it is too early to even be thinking about kids.
00:10:18.760So who is Ashley without birth control?
00:10:21.620Well, it turns out she's a mom because just one year after she stopped taking her pill,
00:14:58.600there's so much to this conversation because i think we've already kind of hinted towards
00:15:09.980things like this in our talk about trad wives and then also the um yoga pipeline the uh
00:15:18.620the influencers in that in that wellness circle where we talk about this level of misinformation
00:15:25.100And being like, if you do all these things naturally, you're going to be so blessed with just being a stay-at-home mom and being able to take care of your family and yourself.
00:15:34.740You're going to feel healthy and light and young and feel complete.
00:15:38.540But all this is in a rhetoric to a very, very dangerous conversation about the loss of rights for those who are marginalized and specifically those who have uteruses in this moment.0.57
00:15:50.820but they are really doing a great job in changing that feminism is being able to be a mom and stay0.99
00:15:57.820at home. Wouldn't you rather do that than have to struggle by yourself in a world that doesn't0.99
00:16:02.360appreciate you type of conversation? So it seems like this is one more narrative for the wellness
00:16:08.140chain, which is an odd and very tricky, tricky conversation. Oh, yeah, you put that so well. And
00:16:16.200you know, there is nothing wrong with wanting to become a parent. There's nothing wrong with
00:16:20.060staying at home and not doing wage earning work, if that is your choice and you can swing it.
00:16:24.840All of those things are great. And the point of feminism is that people should be able to have1.00
00:16:28.700the choices that work for them. However, having an entire media ecosystem that essentially1.00
00:16:35.700rebrands having less control and less autonomy into good things is not a dynamic where people
00:16:43.760get to make their own decisions, really. When you are being algorithmically fed and surfaced,
00:16:48.660Because remember, Ashley said that she was not even seeking out content about the dangers of birth control that content found her.
00:16:54.720When you are awash in that kind of rhetoric and that kind of misinformation, I would argue that you are not really in a dynamic where you're able to make real choices for yourself.
00:17:05.560And yeah, social media content and podcasts, they are an entire media ecosystem spreading and amplifying misinformation about birth control.
00:17:15.900And interestingly, they're not explicitly warning against birth control for religious or political reasons, right?
00:17:22.780The same way, Sam, that you were saying, oh, it's so easy these days to just have it be, oh, I'm just into yoga and wellness three swipes later and you're looking at Nazi content, right?0.82
00:17:35.340Like it's it's so easy. And a lot of that stuff, they're able to use things that feel not nonpolitical and they're not being talked about explicitly as political, but they are political.0.57
00:17:47.160And so with this kind of birth control misinformation that we're seeing increasingly on social media, it doesn't come out and say, hey, we're anti birth control for political or religious reasons.
00:17:56.360it's because birth control is bad for you. And so I think that that is a pretty insidious approach
00:18:04.740because just like wellness, other kinds of wellness, it doesn't just appeal to people who
00:18:10.500are political or religious. It also just appeals to people who are concerned about their overall
00:18:14.980health or wellness. And so increasingly this message says that being on birth control is at
00:18:21.280odds with being healthy well and quote pure like that is the underlying message being presented
00:18:27.640here that makes me want to throw my computer because i swear to god it took us so long to
00:18:32.200get to the point that women can say this is a hormonal imbalance issue for me and i have been
00:18:38.320struggling all of my life as a teen have having pains where it took me out for two or three days
00:18:42.720or having um these mood disorders that did not make sense and feeling like i'm in hell every
00:18:48.480period or three weeks out of the month like I remember growing up being told these are the
00:18:54.520things that you just that's just being a woman and it took us so long to finally get to a point
00:18:59.180and be like oh maybe we should there should be research and there should be medical um actions
00:19:06.260that can happen that could help us and I felt like we were there for like just a split second
00:19:12.640like we were actually accepting that as an okay that might be okay for us to have
00:19:17.520yeah and i'm glad that you said that because i want to be like very clear hormonal birth control
00:19:23.900is not for everyone it can have side effects case in point it was not a good option for me because
00:19:29.520it gave me headaches so this is not me saying everybody should go out there and get on the
00:19:34.040hormonal birth control people should talk to their doctor and figure out what kind of birth control
00:19:39.320is right for them if birth control is right for them there are all kinds of non-hormonal birth
00:19:43.360control options to consider again people should be talking to their medical professionals they
00:19:48.400should not be trusting random influencers on social media or random podcasters but right now
00:19:55.380those are the people who are really speaking the loudest and frankly kind of owning the
00:20:00.460conversation about birth control and people are listening they really have an audience
00:20:06.160and it's coming back they're coming back to that old school thought of you just need to deal with
00:20:12.240it it's uh putting more things in your body doesn't help you all these things and really
00:20:17.280being like you need to let your body work itself out and really telling people to suffer because
00:20:22.500it's a wellness thing it's like literally yeah you want to be pure you know it's just birth
00:20:27.360control is just bad for you and honestly the kinds of stuff that people say about birth control is
00:20:32.100crap just a little bit of a summary so alex clark who hosts culture apothecary which is sort of a0.77
00:20:38.580conservative wellness podcast on the late charlie kirk's network turning points usa0.89
00:20:43.220she has suggested that the way that women are prescribed birth control is linked to fertility
00:20:49.960issues which it isn't she's also even said that birth control pills can falsely make women feel
00:20:57.720like they might be bisexual which i don't think i need to tell anybody but just in case that's not
00:21:04.560true birth control pills cannot turn you queer or gay. I'm sorry that was such that was a genuine0.99
00:21:11.440reaction. I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready. On an episode of Joe Rogan's podcast Callie Means who
00:21:21.000now is an advisor to health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. basically said that the medical
00:21:27.440industry views birth control as recurring revenue and that the reason that they're trying to get
00:21:33.440people to take the pill is because it's recurring revenue and that, oh, if you can get somebody to
00:21:39.240be on the pill, they're going to be taking it for most of their lives. And it's this implied
00:21:44.280conspiracy that, no, no, this is not medication that might genuinely help somebody or might
00:21:50.380genuinely give somebody more autonomy or more choice. No, no, no, no, no. It's a way to just
00:21:56.020make big pharma is making money off of you to harm you. They are so good about taking this type of
00:22:02.900rhetoric and i say they as being like anti-abortion slash anti-uterus anti-marginal people group
00:22:09.660community and taking things and making sure to do a conspiracy to really freak everybody out be
00:22:16.020like no no but this is what's really happening it's not because i'm i'm being uh anti-abortion
00:22:20.460i don't know what you're talking about yeah and so like it's what's it's so true because when you
00:22:25.540look up birth control on tiktok you'll find women talking about how birth control like rubbed their
00:22:31.480bodies, quote unquote, by making them gain weight or tanking their libidos. And these are things
00:22:35.920that actually can be symptoms of hormonal birth control. So they're not wrong. But the thing is,
00:22:40.700if I were to make a TikTok about how my doctor took me off birth control because it was giving
00:22:45.060me headaches, this is not going to be advice for everybody, right? It's very specific to me and my
00:22:50.200body. And importantly, the dominant messages on social media frame birth control as a conversation
00:22:56.940that is not like, oh, talk to your doctor
00:22:58.940if birth control is giving you this specific side effect.
00:38:56.280social media has done so much for good and bad like there's so many things that we are able to
00:39:01.940access so much more and seeing around the world and and get a little more information and data
00:39:06.900and truth but also a lot of the misinformation and disinformation that we have continually have
00:39:11.440to talk about because it's only getting worse but like it reminds me again of like people talking0.58
00:39:17.040trying to use the ejaculation or the minute that sperm comes that's killing a baby if you0.93
00:39:24.700Mm hmm. I'm sorry. I'm laughing at myself in this context. And for so long, I've heard my own people, like my age group of people, very intellectual, like even like pro choice before.0.97
00:39:37.160Tell me after they had a baby. No, yeah, I can't use hormonal birth control because it kills, you know, it has spermicide and that means it's killing babies.
00:39:46.640And I cannot do that as a part of my religion. But now it's flipped that because it it may have worked on a few, but it's starting to work less and less.
00:39:54.240And so now that I feel like this is a way of me talking and be like, no, no, no, we're not going to talk about that as the actual problem.
00:40:02.440Oh, yeah. I mean, we had that. That's a very common piece of misinformation about contraceptives is that they are the same as abortives or abortions.
00:40:11.900The Trump administration just this year was trying to falsely claim that certain forms of birth control are essentially the same thing as abortions in an effort to restrict access to contraceptives.
00:40:22.960And so there's nothing wrong with abortion, but abortion and birth control, as hopefully we all learned in health class, are two different things.
00:40:31.160And so if contraceptives are trying to prevent in like a like an egg being fertilized, if you have no fertilized egg, it's not the same thing as an abortion.
00:40:41.940But the Trump administration was trying to use this sort of tricky, false logic to essentially further restrict birth control and reproductive health more generally.
00:40:50.840Like, that's really what it was. But so, like, that is an incredibly common piece of misinformation.
00:40:56.420And yeah, it just sucks that we're in a place where it's not just being traded around the back of the bus or, you know, on TikTok.
00:47:16.440Yeah. And who knows what her life is really like? Who knows why she is telling you this? Right. And
00:47:21.500I just think that we should really be concerned about what happens when rejecting birth control
00:47:26.340becomes this trendy identity aesthetic on TikTok. More and more women are going to be losing0.99
00:47:31.980control and autonomy over their bodies, their plans, their futures, their finances and their1.00
00:47:37.220lives without even necessarily realizing that that's what's happening. Right. That the woman
00:47:42.720that the New York Times spoke to, Ashley, who was like, I wonder who I am if I'm not on birth
00:47:46.440control, a parent who had a child before her and her partner were ready to have that per her own
00:47:51.920description of the situation. And by the way, after having her child, the New York Times checked
00:47:56.780back in with her and she was like, oh, I'm on birth control now. I said, I can't have another
00:47:59.700kid you know yeah that was that was that was the follow-up i really wanted to know honestly
00:48:04.800now are you back on are you good now yeah i mean like i i it's tough because i really don't want
00:48:11.400to make it seem like i'm saying everybody should be on birth control but the same thing that we
00:48:15.300talked about with the trad wives thing we should not be pushing young people into giving up
00:48:22.100autonomy and giving up the things that give us choices and even if you're not somebody who wants
00:48:28.420to or needs to be on birth control, we should not be creating a climate where it's stigmatized,
00:48:33.060where somebody who does need it is going to look twice at it or think that's that's unsafe for me.
00:48:36.800That's dangerous for me. If I put this in my body, I am I might turn bisexual or I might be making
00:48:42.260myself infertile or any other kind of junk that is being amplified on social media platforms.0.98
00:48:46.600So irresponsibly right now when it comes to birth control. Right. And again, this comes back into0.99
00:48:51.940this bigger layer. Like we probably need to do a playlist of all of these episodes with you,
00:48:56.980Because to connect these dots, once again, there is a connection to the Chad Wives conversation that we've had, the misinformation about abortion from the jump, the misinformation from things like WhatsApp, who tell you it's private, but it's not using things like this, as well as this conversation.
00:49:14.980This is a bigger chain. This is a bigger picture in a small detail that they don't actually don't tell you that. But when you start looking at who's behind that and why this information is coming, it is a bigger picture and it's propaganda.
00:49:28.380Yeah. I mean, these bad actors aren't wrong. We are being lied to, just not by the people they they necessarily want us to be fearful of.
00:49:37.560And I think that's exactly my point, that all of these things are related.
00:49:42.180Tech companies are tech companies and bad actors are materially benefiting from all of us being fearful and less informed about these choices that are so important for the way that we live our lives.
00:49:53.540And, you know, birth control, I'm at the stage in my life where it's not a huge concern for me in general, but that's just the thing.
00:50:03.220Birth control, it's not just about side effects or hormones or the ability to have sex.
00:50:08.360It is about those things, but it's also about autonomy, the ability to make informed decisions about our own bodies based on facts and not fear.
00:50:17.280You know, that is something that generations of women fought for.
00:50:21.240My own mother, my own late mother, God rest her soul. She fought for that. And I just don't think we should just give that up because an influencer told us to. And I think that as these algorithms get louder than actual medical experts, it is really worth asking who is benefiting when we stop trusting our doctors and start putting our trust in influencers and podcasters instead.
00:50:43.000And so if the question is, who are you without birth control, hopefully not just content for somebody else's wellness grift, right?
00:50:52.480The better question is, who could we become when we start demanding care and content that is honest, evidence based and actually centered on us and our bodies and what we truly actually need?