There Are No Girls on the Internet - August 11, 2020


What Vanessa Guillén Can Tell Us About Disinformation

Topics
How The Matrix Explains a Trans Experience BONUS: Why TANGOTI?

Episode Stats


Length

41 minutes

Words per minute

161.08

Word count

6,692

Sentence count

288

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:01:41.960 This episode talks about sexual assault, murder, and suicide. 1.00
00:01:50.060 There Are No Girls on the Internet
00:01:51.520 is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:54.200 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:02:03.660 Vanessa Guillen was a 20-year-old soldier in the U.S. Army. 0.96
00:02:07.520 She loved sports.
00:02:08.900 She played soccer and liked to jog.
00:02:11.040 In April, she went missing from the Fort Hood military base in Texas.
00:02:16.000 On July 5th, her remains were confirmed to have been found.
00:02:20.060 Here's her sister talking to ABC News.
00:02:22.720 She was taken away from me the most horrible way, yet they take it if it was a joke. 0.99
00:02:28.840 My sister's no choke. My sister's a human being just like me, her, all of us.
00:02:34.000 Aaron David Robinson, another soldier, killed himself as police were trying to take him into custody for her murder.
00:02:41.140 Before she died, Guillen told her mother that she was being sexually harassed.
00:02:46.020 Fort Hood has one of the highest rates of murder, sexual assault, and harassment in the Army.
00:02:52.100 Online, many other soldiers use what happened to her to come forward to share their own stories about sexual harassment in the military, using the call, I am Vanessa Guillen.
00:03:03.140 Her family is demanding changes in how the military handles sexual harassment complaints, and protesters around the country amplified her family's demands for answers and change.
00:03:13.220 Guillen's death is a terrible tragedy, and for as many people used her death to highlight important conversations
00:03:19.180 about how our country's institutions fail the very people who fight for our country.
00:03:24.620 Others used it to fuel hate and confusion online.
00:03:29.280 Researchers and digital activists are seeing the way her tragic story
00:03:32.600 is being used to fuel disinformation in Latinx online spaces.
00:03:36.940 Because her killer was believed to be a Black man,
00:03:39.800 big Facebook pages began promoting stories about Vanessa's death
00:03:42.800 as a way to sow divisions between Latinx communities and Black Lives Matter advocates.
00:03:47.140 unfortunately when it comes to how disinformation spreads online this isn't at all uncommon bad
00:03:54.780 actors pick up on sensitive or emotionally charged topics involving wedge issues like race and use
00:04:00.180 them to spread fear confusion and suspicion among each other they often exploit existing fractures
00:04:06.540 between communities to pit marginalized groups against each other but because we don't actually
00:04:11.100 spend a lot of time talking about marginalized communities in general let alone how our identities
00:04:15.720 shape the online experience, we aren't talking about the big threat this tactic presents.
00:04:20.740 And it's a problem.
00:04:22.260 So the first time that I actually became aware of how targeted our folks are was in 2016
00:04:30.240 when I saw someone on my Facebook posted a picture of an ICE agent or someone who looked
00:04:39.460 like an ICE agent with sort of the ICE acronym in the back of his jacket.
00:04:45.720 arresting someone at what looked like was a polling location and it was something along the
00:04:53.860 lines someone had posted and said be careful everyone eyes is you know around the the voting
00:05:00.220 location and you know when I looked at it closely I was like well this looks this picture looks
00:05:05.880 photoshopped but that was sort of the first time that I saw something that I was like huh they're
00:05:12.300 actually somebody's actually thinking this through and kind of knows the nerves in the
00:05:17.620 of the community in terms of the fear the fears that exist in our communities even though we all
00:05:22.660 know that you know undocumented people are not going to go vote but the message that we're trying 0.84
00:05:28.020 to send is like you know immigration is doing raids around voting locations you know therefore 0.98
00:05:33.220 people might just be fearful of going because you know some folks are living mixed status families
00:05:39.900 and so on and so forth.
00:05:41.460 So that was sort of the first time that I saw something
00:05:43.620 and it just made me pause
00:05:45.400 and think about the level of disinformation
00:05:48.120 that was spreading, targeting the Latino community. 0.99
00:05:52.480 Vanessa Cardenas is a longtime activist and policy expert. 0.94
00:05:56.880 She's seen the way that disinformation online
00:05:58.780 plays on our community's fear to create confusion.
00:06:03.080 But when she saw the way Guillen's story
00:06:05.040 was being used online, she was shocked.
00:06:06.860 So that was actually really shocking because obviously the Vanessa Guillen case has touched such a nerve in the community in the sense of, you know, this soldier that, you know, had dedicated her life for a country.
00:06:24.080 So I guess I would say, you know, probably like two weeks, well, maybe like a little bit right after they identify the suspect of the case, you know, I would say days after it, I started seeing some of these pictures and memes about, pretty much about the suspected killer.
00:06:48.600 And just driving this message of, you know, black and brown tensions and just amplifying the sort of the message.
00:06:58.580 Oh, you know, where where's the Black Lives Matter movement when it comes to a Latina that has been killed by a black person? 0.59
00:07:06.680 so that was again really eye-opening but I also feel it was at least for me by then I was already
00:07:16.860 just I've been aware more of sort of the disinformation that's been spreading so I was
00:07:21.680 not surprised but again I think it just speaks to the level of this strategy that's out there
00:07:28.620 about amplifying fear, distrust, and just creating wedges
00:07:34.000 between these communities, which I think we're going to see more of.
00:07:38.400 And these bad actors are really using every opportunity they can
00:07:42.340 to actually, you know, create these wedges.
00:07:45.980 Facebook groups with big followings and reach
00:07:48.100 made posts about Guillen's death, 0.72
00:07:50.920 asking why the Latinx community should support Black Lives Matter
00:07:53.540 when a Black man killed one of their own. 0.98
00:07:56.200 The intention is pretty clear. 0.52
00:07:57.920 rather than amplifying her important story
00:08:00.060 and her family's calls for justice and change,
00:08:02.380 it's an attempt to use her story to sow mistrust and animosity
00:08:05.600 between marginalized communities.
00:08:07.880 Why?
00:08:09.300 Researchers say it has to do with the upcoming election.
00:08:13.120 Acoba Lacona is the disinformation research lead at Equis Labs,
00:08:17.240 a group that works to build an active Latino electorate.
00:08:20.220 His team saw pretty much the same thing she did,
00:08:23.300 that Guillen's story was being used to criticize Black Lives Matter
00:08:25.900 and the protests that followed the death of unarmed Black people like George Floyd by police.
00:08:30.760 We started seeing conservative Latinx accounts, including, you know, Spanish language pages,
00:08:35.280 trying to build racial tension between Black and Latinx communities after they found her body and her death was confirmed.
00:08:42.880 And so we saw conservative Latinx actors starting to criticize Black Lives Matter for not protesting her death and for staying silent.
00:08:49.760 and you know after they found her body the man who was linked to her murder uh killed himself
00:08:54.820 either the same day or the next day and so we saw conservative latinx accounts promoting you know
00:08:59.600 race blindness around gain by amplifying the fact that uh the killer was a black man and that you
00:09:06.040 know they started promoting all lives matter narratives and things like that so we saw you
00:09:10.360 know different memes comparing the black man who killed gian to the white police officer and
00:09:15.160 essentially saying you know promoting a narrative that race has nothing to do with floyd's killing
00:09:19.740 or we also saw bad actors, you know, asking why Latinos weren't, were protesting for BLM,
00:09:26.020 but weren't protesting for other Latinos like Vanessa. And so, you know, there was a lot of
00:09:31.780 racial tension building early on once, you know, reports came, once reports came out and they
00:09:36.680 found her body. So do you think the people who were running these accounts actually cared about
00:09:40.400 sharing Guillen's story? No, I mean, I think they're definitely trying to make it like a wedge
00:09:45.240 issue. And we often see, even in just in other narratives, bad actors trying to, you know,
00:09:51.020 seek to inflame pre-existing tensions within and between communities. So, you know, part of their
00:09:57.420 goal is to depress votes in more progressive communities, including the Latinx community. 0.92
00:10:03.460 And so if they can build a wedge between Black and Latinx voters, they can, you know, 0.67
00:10:07.700 potentially drive some of those people to Trump in November. But I think one big problem here is
00:10:11.940 that you know within the latinx community we've kind of failed to confront the anti-blackness
00:10:17.020 that exists in our own community and i think the far right definitely takes advantage of that to
00:10:21.660 stoke racial tension so you know one thing it's important that we start acknowledging the anti-blackness
00:10:27.060 that exists in our community and show unity um and you know we should especially be doing this
00:10:32.940 because again like black and latinx are not mutually exclusive you know the far right
00:10:37.080 and many people in the Latinx community
00:10:38.680 tend to ignore the Afro-Latinx community. 0.56
00:10:41.780 And so, especially the right,
00:10:43.140 the right is effectively excluding them
00:10:44.900 from their narratives
00:10:46.240 and I don't think we should be ignoring that.
00:10:49.280 So going back to Vanessa's death specifically,
00:10:54.080 I think with an increase in attention
00:10:57.040 on Black Lives Matter
00:10:57.920 and even brands responding
00:11:00.440 to current moments of racial justice,
00:11:02.820 we see a lot of bad actors
00:11:04.500 looking for opportunities
00:11:06.240 to create division among communities of color. 0.50
00:11:09.880 Let's take a quick break.
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00:14:16.300 And we're back.
00:14:21.740 Facebook is a big part of how this all goes down.
00:14:24.760 For instance, the pro-Trump Facebook group The Conservative Choice has over 100,000 followers.
00:14:30.380 And many of their posts are dedicated to criticizing Black celebrities like Colin Kaepernick, Black Lives Matter, and calls for racial justice.
00:14:38.020 One post even accuses Facebook, the company itself, of supporting racism
00:14:42.400 by telling people to avoid Latino businesses
00:14:44.800 because of an initiative highlighting Black-owned business.
00:14:48.700 Similarly, online, protesters' calls for businesses to hire more Black people
00:14:53.380 get twisted into them calling for businesses not to hire Latinos.
00:14:57.620 Many of the other posts on the page are videos or images 0.97
00:15:01.340 depicting violent attacks on Latinos or Latino-owned businesses by Black people 0.84
00:15:05.320 to drive home the idea that the Latinx community 0.99
00:15:07.860 shouldn't trust or support the Black community. 0.87
00:15:11.180 Like a Kobo, Vanessa also sees the ways that anti-Blackness 0.81
00:15:15.300 and the erasure of Afro-Latinx identities
00:15:17.680 have presented fractures and tensions in communities of color
00:15:22.160 that bad actors can exploit online.
00:15:26.880 So Vanessa, what kind of content have you seen online
00:15:29.340 being used to sow division within communities of color?
00:15:31.620 Yeah, so we're seeing a lot of stories, for example, of black men violently attacking Latino men. 0.61
00:15:41.360 You know, very graphic, very violent post pictures. 0.79
00:15:45.700 That's one thing. 1.00
00:15:46.680 And I should say something also, Bridget, and that is that we know that there are black people in the Latino community.
00:15:53.500 Like we have a rich history of Afro, of African descent in the community, whether it's the Caribbean or Peru.
00:16:00.700 and I'm from Bolivia and even in Bolivia we are we have Bolivians who are of African descent
00:16:06.540 so you know but I but the way this um um this current this information efforts you know what
00:16:13.180 they're trying to do is just you know make us look like the other right like separate us so
00:16:18.300 you do have sort of like I was saying this really graphic posts um just amplifying violence that is 0.98
00:16:26.780 that is in how they describe it or in how they post it, you know, by black men. 0.93
00:16:32.120 There's also a lot of content out there about painting the Black Lives Movement about, you know, that is violent.
00:16:39.640 They have a lot of content that's showing, for example, that the Black Lives Movement protesters are destroying churches or burning Bibles.
00:16:49.040 So really going at sort of, you know, some of the themes of, you know, Latino communities, it's very, you know, faith centered.
00:16:56.780 And so they're trying to sort of, again, go at this pressure point and hit those nerves where the community, on things that the community cares about.
00:17:06.260 We are, on the Vanessa Guillen case, there's been a lot of content out there amplifying that the alleged killer was black and promoting the All Lives Matter narrative and questioning how come the Black Lives Movement doesn't show up for Latinos when Latinos are being killed and so on and so forth.
00:17:25.220 so that's the type of content we're seeing now and and again we know that every time there's a
00:17:32.420 flashpoint or every time there's something that's happening just you know at a national level or
00:17:39.960 even at the local level I mean there was a there were some posts I think it was I want to say in
00:17:46.600 Luciana about just about the Black Lives Matter movement. I think that there was a demand that,
00:17:55.480 you know, all businesses should hire people of color. But how the bots or the sort of the
00:18:02.940 disinformation about actors were trying to frame it was that the Black Lives Movement were forcing
00:18:08.240 Latino business owners to hire, you know, non-Latinos. So things like that, right? So
00:18:15.880 they're trying to, again, press this really specific issues in the community where they
00:18:23.240 know that it hits a nerve and just amplify those. And we know we're going to be getting
00:18:28.260 more of those as things get just more heated, as we come closer to the election.
00:18:34.420 All truly blessed at the same time to have a leader like President Trump, who is a builder.
00:18:41.480 Bad actors online seize on conversations that require sensitivity or nuance to talk about,
00:18:47.220 just like they had no problem seizing on Guillen's death to push harmful narratives online.
00:18:52.440 After Goya's CEO faced backlash for praising Trump earlier this year,
00:18:56.560 some accounts purporting to belong to Latino social media users
00:18:59.660 used it to spread accusations of a mob of PC bullies attacking a hardworking community of color.
00:19:06.460 But Win Black Palante, a group that trains voters to identify disinformation,
00:19:12.080 found that some of the accounts pushing this narrative were actually bots.
00:19:16.960 Online, the Goya controversy appeared to boil down to Black Lives Matter versus the Lutzen X community.
00:19:24.120 Ashley Bryant works with Win Black Palante,
00:19:26.540 and she says social media platforms aren't doing enough to curb the spread of this kind of disinformation.
00:19:31.420 We just experienced a couple of weeks ago when the Goya CEO, you know, decided to share his support for Trump and that became a controversy in itself, but also unleashed a right wing operation around, you know, trying to really disparage the true message.
00:19:54.240 You know, Julian Castro and AOC, you know, really stepped up and shared, you know, if you share the values of Trump, you are not supporting our community.
00:20:05.100 And, you know, we saw a bot be unleashed on Facebook within, you know, a couple of hours.
00:20:13.240 And it took a couple of days before Facebook was able to actually remove these, you know, fake comments, fake agents.
00:20:22.640 And our operations saw it within a day, right? And so it's just, you know, there's hundreds of people in their organization that are allegedly focused on this, but yet we were able to identify that these were bots in just under a couple of hours.
00:20:37.460 And so, you know, it really is disheartening to see that these companies aren't really ready to step up into this moment.
00:20:46.800 This isn't a partisan issue, right?
00:20:49.020 Misinformation and disinformation is not a political issue.
00:20:53.620 It is literally to suppress entire communities that need to exercise their right to vote.
00:20:59.440 And if these tech companies don't see it that way, you really have to question what their purposes are.
00:21:04.720 Vanessa also saw the way that conversations around Goya oversimplified the narrative online.
00:21:10.420 But she says the narrative's pushing division, even when Trump himself picks up on it, probably won't resonate much with most folks in the Latinx community.
00:21:20.140 I mean, I think they're trying really hard to sort of make the connection.
00:21:23.360 Obviously, even the Trump administration picked up on it, getting Ivanka to post that ridiculous tweet with her holding a can of Goya beans.
00:21:34.660 Again, I think they're just sort of trying to amplify these wedges and just really, in the case of Goya, you know, I think that the average Latino who's, you know, again, losing their jobs because of COVID and just trying to figure out how they're going to survive this pandemic.
00:21:51.160 This is not something that resonates with them.
00:21:54.880 But I do think, again, there's online, there's just this effort to say, you know, Democrats are against business owners.
00:22:02.000 Democrats are trying to shut this down when we know that that's, you know, that that was not the case.
00:22:07.460 I mean, people have the thing that people had issue with were the comments of the Goya president, who, again, is supporting Trump.
00:22:14.400 And Trump, we know, is driving a very divisive and just really anti-Latino agenda.
00:22:20.740 So that's the point. And I think part of this, again, this disinformation effort is just to confuse the truth, right? It's just to take attention from the real issues and just focus it on sort of these specific narratives that benefits them.
00:22:34.400 And it goes along to sort of their overall frame that Democrats are socialists, that Democrats, you know, don't believe in God, that Democrats, you know, are just driving a socialist agenda and they don't want anyone to be successful.
00:22:49.920 So, again, it just goes off the broader narratives that they're trying to push.
00:22:56.240 Once an official Trump Facebook page, or even Trump himself,
00:23:00.280 signal boosts these narratives, they can spread far and wide.
00:23:04.260 Sometimes it's not even helpful to know where it's coming from
00:23:06.480 because anything that's getting a lot of engagement,
00:23:08.580 it's going to circulate pretty far.
00:23:10.920 You know, Trump, for example, is the biggest amplifier of this info.
00:23:14.180 And it allows other bad actors to follow him,
00:23:17.680 which can, you know, really increase conversations.
00:23:19.920 around certain topics but you know when it comes to latinx spaces there's a network of
00:23:25.000 conservative latinx facebook groups that are part of uh this movement called lexit and they tend to
00:23:30.520 work together and you know coordinated attacks across their network of pages so the lexit
00:23:35.400 movement itself it gained prominence in 2018 as you know an effort to help latinos exit the
00:23:40.240 democratic party or the left and kind of embrace more conservative values uh there's actually
00:23:45.760 another one called lexit which is a little more popular and it's kind of like equivalent for the
00:23:49.000 black community and trying to push more uh black people to embrace conservative values but the
00:23:55.120 network of lexit facebook pages they have a wide range in their audiences so like depending on
00:23:59.660 certain facebook pages some have hundreds of thousands of followers others have tens of
00:24:04.180 thousands of followers but they frequently share you know misleading and factually incorrect
00:24:09.820 narratives and they tend to coordinate within each other but also with the latinos for trump
00:24:14.960 Network, which is an official Latinx page for the Trump campaign. So when they're able to
00:24:21.180 coordinate with each other, they're able to push narratives to more feeds and allow
00:24:24.300 more people to see it. You might expect to see messages about people on the left being
00:24:29.460 godless socialists who hate hardworking business owners from a Facebook page that is explicitly
00:24:34.480 advocating for Trump. But Acobo says that pages that appear to be nonpartisan can sometimes
00:24:40.160 present an even bigger threat when it comes to the spread of harmful narratives online.
00:24:44.960 Yeah, so I think the reality is that we often see less partisan Latinx pages help spread
00:24:51.720 disinformation, especially around conversations that either resonate with the Latinx community
00:24:57.780 or conversations in the mainstream media.
00:25:00.760 And the real problem is that these nonpartisan spaces, they often become more dangerous in
00:25:06.900 the far right spaces because they appear to be more trustworthy messengers and people
00:25:11.580 tend to believe or trust what these pages are promoting. So, I mean, even around narratives
00:25:18.680 around Guillen, it reached less partisan Latinx spaces. And for example, I saw one Facebook page
00:25:24.080 that was intended to bring, you know, Mexicans together, and it has hundreds of thousands of
00:25:27.960 followers. And they're typically posting, you know, more cultural type things. But they started
00:25:33.320 posting narratives around Guillen that appear to try to build tension within the Latinx community.
00:25:37.300 and again so like when they do that these the people who are following these pages they start
00:25:44.760 you know believing some of these messages because you know they're not in those pages for partisan
00:25:49.260 reasons so these less partisan online spaces that are created where people feel like they are
00:25:55.040 a part of a community but then disinformation comes in it's like the stuff around like the
00:26:00.120 stuff around Guillen they're more likely to believe this these narratives. One of our concerns as we
00:26:06.500 look at how this information is spreading is the fact that we're seeing some of this content
00:26:12.420 migrate from very partisan pages to non-partisan pages, especially around the Vanessa Guillen
00:26:20.020 case and her murder and all of that. We saw, for example, a lot of Mexican organizing pages,
00:26:29.360 you know, the hometown associations and people who really were following the case super closely
00:26:35.220 to start picking up some of these right and and they have you know thousands of retweets and
00:26:41.820 and that's the concern right and and again it's because it is i think that also the message for
00:26:49.180 us for progressives is that it is so important to magnify our message our message of solidarity
00:26:57.280 our message of supporting each other's movements our message of you know that we're all in this
00:27:04.260 together. And I think that is the real, that's the real challenge for us because we're not going
00:27:10.780 to be able to, you know, what was happening on the right or in the circles or among these bad
00:27:15.940 actors, we're not really going to be able to minimize that. What we can do is inoculate
00:27:23.860 ourselves and our community against it. And that is by building trust affirmatively and intentionally
00:27:33.320 and elevating trusted voices so that when somebody sees this, you know, this post, they
00:27:40.540 are like, wait, but, you know, I saw another post from someone in my community that I respect
00:27:45.620 and I know, and they are posting positive content that speaks about unity.
00:27:50.860 So I think for us, that's the challenge.
00:27:53.100 How are we magnifying the positive vision and the positive content to actually inoculate
00:28:00.320 ourselves and inoculate our communities from this content?
00:28:03.200 and it's not easy i'm not saying you know and i think progressives right now we have our hands
00:28:06.880 full but i think that's the challenge that we need to create content amplify content not go
00:28:15.380 down the rabbit hole you know one of the actually the hardest things about this information that we
00:28:20.400 often share with progressives is don't amplify it because and that is actually harder than it
00:28:26.640 sounds because sometimes people in the effort not to amplify it they actually retweet it you know
00:28:32.240 because there's, or they reposted
00:28:34.320 because they're trying to debunk the claim.
00:28:36.920 But just by retweeting about it or reposting,
00:28:41.140 you're actually, even if you're saying this is not true,
00:28:43.920 you are in fact getting more eyes on that post.
00:28:47.760 And that's, you know, that's the problem.
00:28:50.780 More after this quick break.
00:29:00.020 Let's get right back to it.
00:29:01.860 Talking about disinformation online is difficult.
00:29:05.340 And because of the nature of algorithms, when you try to respond to correct the record,
00:29:09.520 you could actually be accidentally amplifying it because you're giving it more engagement.
00:29:14.100 It's also important to keep in mind that this isn't just stuff happening online.
00:29:18.600 Disinformation has real consequences because it translates to real-world behavior.
00:29:23.180 And right now, with the Latinx community representing a growing and important voting bloc,
00:29:28.000 it has big implications for the upcoming election.
00:29:32.060 Okobo says this kind of disinformation is meant to push Latinx voters
00:29:35.400 to either vote for Trump or to not vote at all,
00:29:38.940 like that phony picture of immigration arrests
00:29:41.180 outside of polling places that Vanessa mentioned earlier.
00:29:44.420 This is kind of personal for me.
00:29:46.420 I've seen the way dangerous disinformation has impacted my own community.
00:29:51.400 Communities of color have good reason to be skeptical 1.00
00:29:53.860 of our political and medical institutions. 1.00
00:29:57.340 Institutions that historically we can't always trust.
00:30:00.680 But COVID has just made everything worse.
00:30:04.160 I see memes spreading false information about COVID and the election, being shared by people that I love, and it just makes me feel so frustrated.
00:30:13.360 Yeah, you talked earlier about the importance of inoculating your community against disinformation, and I really felt that.
00:30:21.640 You know, my people are Black, we're from the South.
00:30:24.580 When it comes to things like voting, it is not always as easy as just going to vote.
00:30:28.600 You know, in these states, there are voter ID laws and other kinds of barriers to just going and casting your ballot.
00:30:37.260 So I really see a lot of disinformation being spread around voting.
00:30:40.940 And particularly now with COVID, I've seen a lot of elders in my own community posting things that I know are rooted in this very real fear around COVID.
00:30:52.580 And I understand where it comes from.
00:30:54.740 You know, COVID has ravaged black and brown communities.
00:30:57.000 So these folks are like their concerns are very valid. It's been a frustrating challenge to acknowledge and validate these very real fears in my own community, while also not letting people that I care about give over to fear and spread harmful, incorrect information because they're fearful. It's been a challenge. 1.00
00:31:22.960 No, and I so connect with you on that point, and I can totally relate.
00:31:29.980 You know, I am first generation.
00:31:31.980 Most of my family or, like, my aunts and uncles, they came here when they're adults.
00:31:36.640 So they are just, you know, this is a, I think it's really important for us to realize that this is a very difficult moment.
00:31:43.180 It is a very confusing moment, you know, and I think especially the older generation, they're just like, they just don't know what's happening, you know,
00:31:51.280 and they're fearful for the future and they are, you know,
00:31:55.320 they see what's happening, you know, in our country with Trump.
00:31:58.400 They see COVID, they see their employment gains being erased.
00:32:02.240 They see their incomes being erased and then our health, you know,
00:32:06.360 we are the communities that are feeling the brunt of the impact of the
00:32:09.940 pandemic. Now, on top of that, you add this whole, you know,
00:32:14.240 the new process of vote by mail, right?
00:32:16.620 It's a new process for a lot of folks.
00:32:18.300 They're not familiar how to, you know, request a ballot. They have never voted by mail, many of them. And then the other piece of this is even for young people, like, oh, yeah, they don't carry around a book of stamps like some of us did, right?
00:32:33.400 So when you think about it, you know, it really presents a lot of challenges. And that's why, you know, I think that, again, part of our challenge as progressives is, you know, how are we, what voter education efforts are we implementing, even in this era of COVID, when everything has to be done virtually.
00:32:52.800 I think that's going to force us to innovate, but also to have those conversations that
00:32:58.780 we've been putting off, because I do believe that the best way to inoculate people is to
00:33:04.840 just have an honest conversation.
00:33:07.160 And you're not going to be able to convince your aunt or uncle the first time.
00:33:12.680 But I think just starting to have those conversations about what's happening in our country, you
00:33:17.560 know, why their voice is so important and how this process is changing and just repeating
00:33:25.560 that message over and over again, I think it's one of the most effective strategies.
00:33:31.060 And again, like I said earlier, the best way to inoculate yourselves is like when you have
00:33:36.200 a trusted messenger, when you have someone who's in the community, who people go to for
00:33:41.740 information. Those are, I think, those are the people that are going to help us face this really
00:33:51.700 onslaught of this information because they are the ones that the community listens to. And that's
00:33:58.020 why we need to empower those folks with the tools that they need and the information that they need
00:34:02.880 and, you know, just help drive that message and that positive message that I was speaking about
00:34:09.160 earlier. So what can everyday people do to help curb the spread of disinformation and
00:34:16.400 misinformation, particularly in marginalized communities? Yeah. Well, the first thing I
00:34:20.780 would say is just really be careful about what you are amplifying online. What might seem harmless
00:34:26.320 to you is probably not harmless, right? So just really always be mindful of your sources and the
00:34:34.640 message that the messages that you are posting. So that would be the very first thing. The second
00:34:40.020 thing is, you know, it's informing yourselves, especially when we talk about voting and because
00:34:45.340 we know that's actually going to be a big target of the attacks and the disinformation moving
00:34:50.820 forward, especially as we get closer to election and especially because this new process is around
00:34:55.920 vote by mail. So really informing yourself about the deadlines and the requirements on voting
00:35:02.620 absentee or voting by mail so that you can share that information with your community and your
00:35:09.500 loved ones and and then the the third thing is again you know just trying to amplify a positive
00:35:15.800 message a message of unity and solidarity I think if we all we we do that we will go it will go a
00:35:23.180 long way because right now bad actors are trying to amplify fear therefore we need to amplify a
00:35:29.180 positive message, a positive vision for our movement and for our country moving forward.
00:35:35.100 Ashley's team at Win Black Palante is taking this message to heart. Rather than waiting for tech
00:35:40.140 leaders like Mark Zuckerberg to do the right thing and curb the spread of harmful disinformation on 1.00
00:35:45.620 their platforms, her team has established a disinformation war room to train Black and Latinx
00:35:51.780 voters and other grassroots advocacy organizations to spot disinformation themselves and provides
00:35:57.880 messaging tools to counter it with accurate information without amplifying it.
00:36:02.080 Our strategy is really teaching people that we don't want to amplify the misinformation,
00:36:08.100 right?
00:36:08.600 That is counterproductive.
00:36:10.400 But what we do want to do is put in the space counter narratives while also educating folks.
00:36:15.860 And so we have a daily war room where we bring our team together to go over analysis, go
00:36:24.020 over our research briefs.
00:36:25.400 And so it really adds another level of authenticity because it's not just, you know, our campaign that's trying to come in and talk to folks.
00:36:33.280 But we're working with these organizations that have created a sense of community with with their not just their online audiences, but, you know, the citizens within their regions.
00:36:43.540 And we're able to really spread this message of like, look, this is how you identify.
00:36:48.420 These people are trolls. They are bots.
00:36:50.440 They are not trying to appeal to you in any way beyond trying to mislead you.
00:36:56.900 And you should know this.
00:36:58.040 And the only way to fight back is to register and vote.
00:37:01.500 Loosely translated, the slang term Palante means to go forward.
00:37:07.000 And Ashley's team at Win Black Palante are working to help communities of color go forward stronger in solidarity.
00:37:14.800 You know, I can't help but notice that your organization has two names, Win Black and Palante.
00:37:20.440 you know, we see these narratives being pushed by bad actors that the Latinx community and the
00:37:26.300 Black community, we can't work together. We have to be living in fear of each other. We have to
00:37:30.740 be suspicious of each other. Not only does this framework obviously erase the fact that there are
00:37:34.980 plenty of Afro-Latinas out there, but it's also just not true. And I guess my question is, how do
00:37:41.360 we get to a place where we can present the truth that our communities are stronger together?
00:37:46.320 Absolutely. And I mean, you took half my answer in the last in your last sentence, because simply that's the truth.
00:37:54.200 We are stronger together and they know that. And so they want to do anything to divide these two communities.
00:38:01.120 And, you know, it's simply just disgusting, quite honestly.
00:38:04.200 I mean, we most recently were seeing this misinformation around, you know, the Black Lives Matter movement did put out a letter that was that was kind of describing some of their demands.
00:38:16.880 And we're seeing a lot of right wing operatives that are boiling it down, taking out a lot of the context within the letter and sharing that the Black Lives Matter movement are against immigrants or they are, you know, doing mafia tactics, if you will, which is simply just not the truth.
00:38:38.020 And they're spreading these untruths in a very broad manner.
00:38:42.340 And so, you know, it's really important for us.
00:38:45.100 And I'm glad that you underscored the Palante because we do have a Latinx focus.
00:38:50.500 And because we want to bring our two communities together in this fight, there's so many critical
00:38:55.860 issues that both communities share.
00:38:59.040 Right.
00:38:59.400 But also, neither of these communities are monolithic.
00:39:02.420 And it's really almost embarrassing to see that a lot of these operatives think of our communities as such. And so they're doing these tactics to really, you know, it's almost like this distributed racism to really pit these two communities against each other.
00:39:21.740 And so we're really building a sense of let's educate Black voters, Latinx voters.
00:39:29.500 Let's educate folks on what are the issues that really matter to us?
00:39:33.420 Who are the leaders in this space that are supporting our issues, are supporting our values?
00:39:38.800 And then also recognizing that, again, we're not monolithic.
00:39:42.540 We need to speak to voters as individuals.
00:39:45.000 And we're not just pitting everyone against each other.
00:39:49.280 We're working under an administration right now that is trying to divide this country at every turn.
00:39:56.220 And so it's really important that as we are mobilizing and reaching voters, that at every step of the way, we are trying to unite folks under one goal,
00:40:05.540 which is to make sure that we have a democracy that represents our communities, that represents our issues, and that is going to fight to actually move our communities forward.
00:40:15.840 Vanessa Guillen deserved better.
00:40:18.000 And today, she deserves better than having her story 0.85
00:40:20.880 fuel mistrust and hate in our communities.
00:40:23.700 And we, too, deserve better than being fed the myth
00:40:26.580 that our communities can only exist in conflict with one another.
00:40:30.220 Our oppression, like our freedom, is all linked.
00:40:33.760 And until we're all free, none of us is free.
00:40:36.800 To make sure that you and your community
00:40:38.620 have the right information you need to vote,
00:40:40.380 go to vote.org.
00:40:44.400 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech?
00:40:46.480 or just want to say hi you can reach us at hello at tangody.com you can also find transcripts for
00:40:51.480 today's episode at tangody.com there are no girls on the internet was created by me Bridget Todd
00:40:55.920 it's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative Jonathan Strickland is our executive
00:41:00.260 producer Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer Michael Amato is our contributing
00:41:04.960 producer I'm your host Bridget Todd if you want to help us grow rate and review us on Apple
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