00:00:00.000how many of you remember the katie sorenson story maybe you don't remember the name but you might
00:00:13.580remember the episode we did a couple of years ago about the mom influencer in the michaels craft
00:00:20.360store parking lot who accused a couple of trying to kidnap her kids to get more viral attention
00:00:27.460for her Instagram account. Yeah, this was a crazy, crazy-ass story back in the day. And now
00:00:36.440it is being revisited in a new podcast by LAist called People vs. Karen. It's part of a series
00:00:45.780called Imperfect Paradise, and the reporter Emily Guerin is diving back into the Katie Sorensen
00:00:52.480story, to interview all of the people in it, and to shift the lens onto the couple that Katie
00:00:58.820accused, Sadie and Eddie Martinez. Emily Guerin has been at Katie Sorensen's trial, which only0.74
00:01:06.160took place this year, and she's done extensive interviews with the people involved. Today's
00:01:11.540podcast is a very special episode. It is an update on the mom who falsely accused a couple
00:01:16.500of trying to kidnap her kids in a Michaels parking lot.
00:01:22.480Well, for our listeners who don't remember Katie's story, can you give us the quick and dirty recap of who Katie Sorensen is and why is she even interesting?
00:01:45.440But Katie is now she's in her early 30s.0.87
00:01:49.980she is at the time when this happened in 2020, she was living in Sonoma, California, just north
00:01:55.720of San Francisco. She was in Petaluma, right? Or she lived in Sonoma, but she was shopping in
00:02:00.720Petaluma. And it was like deep COVID, as you recall, like it was like the surge, like that's
00:02:06.320when tons of people were dying in California of COVID. And it was just before Christmas. And she
00:02:11.280went to the Michael's craft store in Petaluma to go shopping. And I have to stop you because,
00:02:16.440you know this is my favorite part of this story that it happened at michael's that it takes place
00:02:21.000in the michael's craft store parking lot yeah yeah yeah so so according to katie and this is
00:02:27.500what she later said at trial um she was extremely nervous that day because of just having like
00:02:34.380heightened covid anxiety and she hadn't really been out shopping alone she hadn't really been
00:02:39.140out alone with her kids she said during covid but there she was in michael's with her two kids in a
00:02:44.320stroller. And she goes in the store and she just starts to feel like there are these people
00:02:49.380following her around this couple. And she feels them behind her in the spray paint aisle. And
00:02:55.480then she notices they're behind her in the checkout line. And I should say, I saw a surveillance
00:02:59.800video of most of this. And it's true, the couple, Sadie and Eddie Martinez, were right behind her
00:03:04.820in line. But it was also like the time of social distancing. So they were like six feet apart.
00:03:09.180And Katie felt like they had followed her out into the parking lot.
00:03:14.720She was loading her kids into her car and says that she said that the couple sort of doing sort of doing this strange dance where they kind of took a few steps towards her, a few steps away, a few steps, steps towards her.
00:03:30.400And later on, she told the story a couple of different times.
00:03:33.600She first told it to the police, but then she told it on Instagram.
00:03:36.140And when she told that on Instagram, she said that the man had tried to grab her stroller and that she had yelled for help and this couple ran away.
00:03:44.640So that's Katie's version of what she says happened.
00:03:48.740I can tell you what the Martinez's version is of what happened.
00:03:54.800And I mean, I think that what made this so interesting in the beginning is that, yeah, she she decides to broadcast this to Instagram immediately.
00:04:15.440So I guess I'll stick with Katie's story first and then we'll get to Sadie and Eddie.
00:04:18.280But so Katie says after. So she actually says while she's walking out of Michael's, she's on the phone with her husband and she's telling it they have a code word for when they're in danger, but they don't want other people to know.
00:04:30.800And she said she said ever reveal it. I don't know what her code word is, unfortunately, but she did say she watches a lot of true crime podcasts.
00:04:38.360She told the police that. And that's where she'd gotten the idea. So she's on the phone with her husband telling him that she thinks these people are following her, saying her code word, getting increasingly scared as she sees them near her car while she's loading her kids into the car. Anyway, right. So she says she calls for help. And this older man and his caregiver like come over and see what happened. And they're like, you did the right thing. But the couple is gone.
00:05:00.940So Katie later calls the police from her car and she says she that she was just at the Michael's parking lot and a couple tried to kidnap her kids. And she tells them the story. I guess the notable thing to me about this first call is that she the dispatcher asked her to describe them.
00:05:18.220And she describes the man as maybe Hispanic wearing a Black Lives Matter hoodie.0.71
00:05:23.580They're both wearing face masks because it's COVID.0.73
00:05:25.980And then she describes a woman in this kind of funny way where she's like she had red hair, but it wasn't natural.
00:05:39.540Yeah. And then she describes the woman as white.
00:05:42.220And so Katie is told to go to the police station.0.56
00:05:45.160And she gets there and she has another interview in person with a police officer, like through her car window in the parking lot, because, again, this is COVID.
00:05:52.780And at that point, she adds another detail.
00:05:55.180She says, like, you know, they just seemed rough looking.
00:05:59.440And the police officer is very baffled.
00:06:13.120Yeah. These are these are all details I did not know about this case.
00:06:15.840Well, this was all. Yeah, this was only because I went to the trial and they played all the body cam video and the the audio of her phone calls to the police.
00:06:24.620And then I got the transcript. So, yeah, none of that. None of what she told the police was out there.
00:06:28.900It was just her Instagram video was out there before this.
00:06:34.340Yeah. So and the police officer is like, well, this is, you know, bizarre, but it doesn't really sound like an attempted kidnapping.
00:06:41.600But, you know, nonetheless, we're going to search the parking lot and we'll tell you if we find anything. And they don't. They don't find anything. And so the police drop it, essentially. And and then a week later is when Katie uploads her Instagram video, which you have seen, in which she tells the story again, but adds a few new details.
00:07:01.080And in her Instagram telling of the story, she says that the man tried that he reached for her stroller. She also says that she overheard the couple talking about like in detail about her kids appearance and how she must not care about her kids because they're not wearing masks and that would therefore make them easier to kidnap.
00:07:21.980um and so she says this new stuff and her video goes viral as you know like four and a half
00:07:29.020million people watch it and some of those people are police officers with the petaluma police
00:07:33.560department and they um they're the man who watches it is the same officer who she spoke to a week ago
00:07:40.400and he's like i don't remember some of these details like why would why would she be telling
00:07:44.000instagram the guy tried to grab her stroller but she wouldn't tell me the police like that's a key
00:07:48.960element of attempted kidnapping. This is strange. So they go to her house in Sonoma and they
00:07:54.340question her about it. And she kind of goes back and forth between like really doubling down on
00:08:00.000what happened. She's like, a hundred percent, I'm a hundred percent certain they reached for my
00:08:03.980stroller. You know, I'm a hundred percent certain they said things they shouldn't have been saying
00:08:07.600about my kids. But then she's also like, I don't know, I might be misremembering other parts of
00:08:13.800the story. And the police are at that point are like, you know, we looked at surveillance video
00:08:18.780and a lot of what you say on Instagram doesn't add up. And you can see her sort of start to like,
00:08:24.740oh, well, that's really interesting. Thank you for telling me. Like, I'm so glad you're here
00:08:30.120because, you know, yeah, of course I want to be sure. And so it's this whole like back and forth
00:08:35.280where the police are like trying to figure out what exactly happened. And she's doubling down
00:08:40.420on certain parts, but doubting her story in other places. Right, right. And so and I guess and I
00:08:48.420would just say and then after that is when the police release this photo of this couple from
00:08:53.620the surveillance video, because they're now trying to identify the couple because they think, well,
00:08:57.760these people could be attempted kidnappers. And so that's when Sadie and Eddie Martinez enter the
00:09:01.720story. And talk to me a little bit about Sadie and Eddie Martinez. You focus a lot on them
00:09:08.760in the podcast, what do we need to know about them?
00:09:13.740They are early 50s. They're born and bred in San Francisco. They met as teenagers.
00:09:20.220They're just like really lovely, decent, hardworking people. They moved out of San
00:09:25.120Francisco up to Petaluma because they wanted to give their kids a better life, even though0.99
00:09:29.340they always felt kind of out of place there because Petaluma is a mostly white town
00:09:33.220and they're both Latino. But they were like, you know what, we don't want our kids to grow up where1.00
00:09:37.740we grew up, we want like something safer, something better. They have five kids. Eddie is a UPS driver.
00:09:44.180He's been driving for UPS for almost 20 years. Sadie is a bookkeeper. And then she also is she's
00:09:49.840a very crafty person. She does a lot of like balloon displays on the sides. And so that's why1.00
00:09:55.040they were in Michael's that day is that it was before Christmas and they weren't going to Sadie's
00:10:00.020mom's house like normal because of COVID. So they needed to make their own nativity set at home and
00:10:05.080they didn't have a little baby Jesus. So they went to Michael's to buy a little baby Jesus,
00:10:09.400among other things. And while they were there, it was like a totally unmemorable trip. Like
00:10:14.540Eddie wandered around. Oh, because Eddie had the day off from UPS for his birthday. So that's why
00:10:19.900he went with her to the store. So it's Eddie's birthday. Yeah, it's like the day after his
00:10:25.220birthday. But yeah. OK. And they're also buying a baby Jesus. Correct. You can't make this shit up.
00:10:29.800I know. So they're wandering around. Eddie's wandering around because he doesn't go to1.00
00:10:34.640stores that much. So he's like, oh, what's in Michael's? And Sadie's like, I'm gonna go get the
00:10:38.160Jesus and we're gonna check out. And they pay, they leave. It's like 1030 in the morning. They
00:10:44.380really like trying new restaurants, like they're sort of self-described foodies. And there's this
00:10:48.220Chinese place in the plaza they've never been to before. And Eddie's like, let's go try this
00:10:52.940Chinese place. So they walk towards it. They realize it's closed. It's too early. Eddie's a1.00
00:10:58.820very emotional, like he's very emotive. He talks with his hands. And so he goes, ah, man. And he
00:11:04.260makes this like big hand motion when he finds out the restaurant's closed. I will later learn that
00:11:09.520coincidentally, he made this hand motion behind Katie Sorensen's car. Oh, OK. Yeah, because they
00:11:16.780were walking past her car to get towards the Chinese restaurant. They find out it's closed.
00:11:20.840Eddie's bummed. He goes, ah, man. And then they turn around and they go back to their car and
00:11:25.380they like turn around again one more time. But really, they're just walking back to their car
00:11:29.280and they leave and that is their day at michael's so they don't think anything of it until
00:11:37.000a week later when um sadie's daughter who's 17 at the time shows her this surveillance photo that
00:11:46.220the petaluma police department have sent out because everybody they got like a text alert
00:11:49.460about it and her daughter's like mom i think this is you in the photo and sadie's like nah i don't
00:11:54.940think so like that's ridiculous and she's like no no no really i think it's you so they go show
00:11:59.240her dad eddie and eddie's like no i'm not that short you know like they have this whole thing
00:12:04.080we don't look like those people those people are frumpy like that's not us um and uh but not long
00:12:10.420after that sadie gets a facebook message from a petaluma police officer being like you have been
00:12:15.000identified as persons of interest and this attempted kidnapping like please come talk to us0.97
00:12:19.700and they're all like oh shit and that's when it becomes very real that they've been accused of0.75
00:12:24.480this thing that they clearly have not done can you imagine can you imagine getting that phone call0.99
00:12:30.180like or yeah totally out of the blue right and that to for the police to say hey we think you
00:12:37.940might be potential kidnappers we need to talk to you yeah and i think because like probably at that
00:12:43.380point they did not even remember what they had done at michael's you know it was just such a like
00:12:47.320normal thing to be like wait what even happened like what do we like i can't even remember what
00:12:52.760I did that day. Like, can you remember what you did a week ago? Like, I can't. So anyway, yes,
00:12:57.780I think it was very shocking. But at that point, they there's a one of one of Eddie's siblings is
00:13:03.520a lawyer. And so they had her come or I guess his sister. They had her come to the meeting with the
00:13:08.560police very smartly and basically told the police like this didn't happen. We don't even remember
00:13:13.920seeing this woman. You know, we did not follow her around. We definitely didn't try to grab her
00:13:19.480stroller. And fortunately for them, there was a lot of surveillance video that corroborated their
00:13:25.620story and they were very quickly cleared of any wrongdoing. But that didn't mean that people out
00:13:31.640in the world knew they were innocent. Do you know what I mean? Because here Katie is on Instagram,
00:13:36.060like going off about this rough looking, not clean cut couple who tried to kidnap her kids. So
00:13:42.100to the rest of the world, no one really knows that they didn't do it except, you know, them
00:13:46.680and the police. Right, right. So talk to me a little bit. That's all the background, right?
00:13:52.400Yes. Do you need to know any other background going into the podcast?
00:13:56.280I guess just that, you know, Sadie, like she is the kind of person who really does something
00:14:02.820about things that bother her. And this like really pissed her off. Like she just was like,
00:14:07.540this was so obviously racial profiling. Like, I think it just like enraged her and it enraged
00:14:15.080her to think about what would have happened if Katie had accused a different couple, like a couple
00:14:19.320that didn't speak English or a couple who was undocumented or, you know, a couple with fewer1.00
00:14:23.540resources. And so she was like, I have to stand up and fight this on behalf of everyone else
00:14:29.780who has ever been falsely accused, you know, every other person of color that's been falsely
00:14:33.500accused. And so she held a press conference. And yeah, she just kind of was on a mission to have
00:14:39.420Katie be actually prosecuted and held accountable.
00:14:44.880How did the trial go? Because again, these things don't usually go to trial. So how did this end0.97
00:14:51.480up coming about? So no one ever told me this on the record. And by no one, I mean like the judge
00:14:57.720and the district attorney wouldn't confirm this. But I always felt just by the kinds of the ways
00:15:03.340that the various agencies were talking, that they felt a lot of pressure to prove they could be fair
00:15:08.040to people of color. And this was also like six months after George Floyd was murdered. And so
00:15:12.180I think the justice system was under a lot of scrutiny, like even more so than it normally is.
00:15:17.340And here was a case where they could show they're taking a tough stand against racism,
00:15:22.440basically against a white woman who had profiled this Latino couple. And so the police from the
00:15:29.620beginning, you know, they were investigating Katie. The DA charged her with a crime. And then
00:15:36.120the judge wouldn't let Katie's lawyer get the case dismissed. Like she wrote, you know, if this case0.98
00:15:42.800gets dismissed, people will lose faith in the justice system. And this case says a lot about,
00:15:47.560you know, online, the real world effects of online bullying and, you know, the ramifications of false
00:15:53.960accusations on people of color in our community. So she seemed to be thinking really big picture
00:15:57.780about it and really wanted the case to go to trial. So I think that's all part of why it actually
00:16:02.920made it to trial. Time for a quick break. Be right back.
00:16:19.000Then for the podcast, you did you end up sitting in on the trial?
00:16:23.640Yeah. Yeah, I went to every day of the trial. It was five days.
00:16:27.420And so talk to me about what it was like in that courtroom and what you end up learning
00:16:31.720that our listeners might not know? I think that the thing that I found most interesting was
00:16:37.360the prosecutor did not bring up race really at all. He argued that Katie was an influencer who,
00:16:46.280a wannabe influencer, who created this sensational story to go viral so she could,
00:16:50.740you know, monetize her posts. And like, she had this online business called Motherhood Essentials,0.76
00:16:56.420Where she sold cosmetics and like supplements and essential oils and stuff. So he was like, you know, she wanted to direct more people to her business. And she also wanted to, I mean, Joe, you know more about this than me, but like be able to like make more money off of her sponsored content and ads and stuff.
00:17:11.780um and that was his argument and so he did this like deep dive into her social media account he
00:17:17.800pulled all these posts of her saying things like i just want some more money for my kids homeschooling
00:17:24.000like i'm trying to be an eek influencer for clean living and mindful mothering and
00:17:29.420i didn't see katie cry during the trial except during this deep dive into her social media
00:17:35.420because it's so humiliating do you know what i mean like yeah yeah he's just showing these posts
00:17:40.180of her like blowing flower petals at the camera and she's like sitting 10 feet away like being
00:17:46.500charged with a crime it was it was very cringy um but that was his argument was she was an
00:17:51.940influencer gone wrong and he would influencer gone wrong that could have been that could have been
00:17:56.920the alternate title for this podcast that's true influencer gone wrong as an aside we decided to
00:18:03.920title it People Versus Karen because the whole idea that Katie was a Karen was really the way
00:18:10.240this incident was talked about online. Yeah, I remember that. You know, every time I see it,
00:18:16.120I just, you know, I've got a lot of good Karens in my life. Got a lot of good Karens. And I feel
00:18:21.720so bad for those good Karens because they... Oh, like women named Karen?0.81
00:18:26.080Women named, no, not like Karen in the quote unquote Karen way, but like just women named
00:18:30.440Karen. Right. Well, some of whom are not white, but I feel bad for those. I feel bad for the0.58
00:18:37.940Karens. We actually got a lot of emails from people named Karen who were upset we called
00:18:42.720the podcast that. So I feel that. I feel them. I feel them. Also feel bad for the Kyles. Feel
00:18:49.400bad for the Kyles and the Karens in the world. Okay, that's fair. Just putting it out there.1.00
00:18:54.360Sorry, Karen. Sorry this happened to you. Yeah. So yeah, that was the prosecutor's argument,
00:18:59.240And the defense's argument was that Katie now knew that no attempted kidnapping had ever occurred.
00:19:25.880It was an odd series of coincidental events that she misinterpreted.
00:19:30.780And she convinced herself that she was at risk and that people were trying to grab her kids, but in reality, they weren't.
00:19:36.960And she now knows that she was wrong, but that at the time she really felt afraid.
00:19:41.060And it was important for him to establish that because the whole trial came down to her feelings because the prosecutor had to prove that she did not truly feel afraid.
00:19:52.200And then, in fact, she was lying to the police.
00:19:57.300No, super hard. And the defense had to prove that she did, in fact, truly feel afraid. So it was all like in her head, which was also fascinating, like a white woman's feelings were on trial.
00:20:07.740So that part of it was really interesting.
00:20:10.040And the fact that she could so, you know, wildly misinterpret Eddie Martinez's hand gesture when he's like bummed the Chinese restaurant is closed and she interprets that as him reaching for her stroller.
00:20:24.060That was like one of the core arguments was that that was what she thought had happened.0.90
00:20:28.040this trial just seems gonzo bananas to me because first off yes a white will a white woman's
00:20:36.060feelings on trial um and also you know it just seems like a war of how things are interpreted
00:20:43.340which is so subjective now i have covered a lot of trials um i've actually covered i've covered a
00:20:52.140lot of celebrity divorce trials. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I famously did the Christy Brinkley
00:20:58.600divorce from Peter Cook, which is a big scandal out on Long Island. I also did former New Jersey
00:21:05.980Governor James McGreevy's divorce. Yeah. And so I have been in a lot of courtrooms where there is
00:21:13.960a lot of he said, she said, and speculation. But in those cases, it felt just more tangible,
00:21:23.320almost, whereas all of these things either seem to be happening in people's heads or on social
00:21:29.940media. These seem like things that are not in the real world. I think the other thing that was
00:21:36.980interesting, in addition to what you were just saying, is all the evidence was there. The charges
00:21:43.700were based on Katie's three conversations with the police, all of which were recorded. And so
00:21:49.380it wasn't like, you know, there was a robbery and there's no video of the person going into
00:21:54.720the store or not. Like the charge was she lied to the police and you have the entire conversation
00:21:59.780in which she allegedly lied to the police for the jury to listen to and decide. So that was
00:22:05.300also an interesting thing, just as I don't know, just as like more and more of our lives are
00:22:09.500documented. Like there weren't really any blind, you know, there weren't any parts of this trial
00:22:13.940that where you had to guess, like, I don't really know what happened. Like you could tell what
00:22:17.860happened and it was just about how you interpreted it. So what is the latest? You know what? I
00:22:24.760haven't been following this story. I mean, it's actually shocking to me that it happened so long
00:22:29.240ago and I haven't been following it in the past couple of years. What is the latest here?
00:22:35.660So the trial was this past April. So it was about two and a half years after Katie's initial accusation. And she was found guilty of one count of false reporting of a crime, which is a misdemeanor. Basically, the jury did not convict her on her first two calls to the police, which were like the day of the incident.
00:22:56.640They did convict her on the conversation she had with the police after her Instagram video came out, which is interesting. She was sentenced to 30 days in jail. She only served half of that because that's how California's sentencing guidelines work. And then she was on probation for nine months. And during that time, she also had some work release.
00:23:15.580But during probation, she couldn't use social media. She had she had to do like social media ethics training, racial bias training, things like that. And her family has since moved to Montana that they have, which I should note, there's like a very long history of conservative white Californians moving to the northern Rockies when they feel like California is like, you know, not safe for them anymore.
00:23:38.300So she moved to Montana. And the last I heard was she was before the trial. She was a preschool teacher. Although when I contacted the school where she worked, they took her bio and picture off the teacher page.
00:23:53.180Oh, wow. Yeah. She really didn't want to be found.
00:23:56.180Mm-hmm. Well, I understand that. I also, you know, there's many sides to every story, too. Do I think that what Katie Sorensen did was wrong? Yes.
00:24:11.640Do I think it is terrible what the Martinez's had to go through? Yes. Do I think that someone deserves to be canceled and never have a happier, productive life for the rest of their life for making a series of mistakes like that? I don't know.
00:24:30.540I mean, if Katie does want to work and be a productive member of society as a preschool teacher, which is a job that we desperately need more of, should she should she be able to do that?
00:24:49.260Yeah, I think that to me, this case felt different than your sort of like run of the mill being canceled case where someone says something that, you know, some people interpret as offensive.
00:24:59.120Other people are like, whatever. But like there's this huge Internet backlash to them. This felt to me like she pretty clearly made up a lot of things that didn't happen and accused a completely innocent couple of this thing that like upended their lives.
00:25:13.180And I was like, yeah, you know that it made sense to me that she would be charged with a crime. I like it made sense to me she would be found guilty.
00:25:19.340Like those are things that I think are like are punishable offenses. So to me, this wasn't really about being canceled. I think that the reaction online to Katie, like I talked to her mom briefly at the courthouse and her mom said that, you know, they got death threats and just like horrible emails and letters and phone calls. And I believe all that. I mean, we know how the Internet is. And so, yes, I think I don't have a terrible cesspool.
00:25:48.020And like, I don't actually wish that on anyone. Like, I really don't. But to separate the online mob stuff from the justice stuff, like the justice stuff in this case seemed like right. I was like, yes, this is what should happen. Like being attacked online. I mean, I really don't wish that on anyone.
00:26:03.140No, no, no. The justice stuff makes sense for me. It does. But in my mind, I also think, you know, people need to continue to be able to live in the world. And so, yeah, being attacked online is gross.
00:26:17.240And I'm also curious, would there have been, and I ask this all the time when this happens with an influencer, would there have been this much interest in Katie if she weren't, you know, a, quote, traditionally attractive kind of sitcom looking white blonde woman, white blonde influencer?0.62
00:26:36.660Like this case got so much more interest than I think it would have gotten if that weren't who she is.0.98
00:26:44.960And I think, yes, her appearance for sure. And also just the way people would use the term mom influencer. I mean, even the prosecutor used it as this like dirty word in this way that felt kind of unfair, honestly. I mean, I'm not defending Katie. She was trying to make a living. She has three kids. She was trying to like build a business from home and like, whatever. Good for her. Like, I think everything she did after that is messed up.0.97
00:27:09.180But like it did feel like there was some amount of judgment of her for just being an influencer that felt sort of gross.
00:27:17.300Yeah. No, I've thought that about this case.
00:27:19.160And I think it about a lot of news stories that that impact influencers or that are about influencers, that the word influencer and especially mom influencer and especially mommy blogger.
00:27:38.620I mean, these are these are women trying to build a business. It's not easy to be a woman building a business. Again, what Katie did was terrible. But the media coverage of things like this, you know, we often see it when an influencer, you know, is harmed or an influencer passes away.1.00
00:27:57.920that the the term influencer is always used condescendingly. Yeah. Media and no other job
00:28:06.360or or a man who happens to have a large Instagram following. No, the men are never condescended to
00:28:12.400in that way. So, yeah, I do think that there was a lot of language and kind of a media circus
00:28:18.600around Katie's story that would not have happened if, say, she were an accountant.
00:28:23.860Yeah, I agree with that. I think the one thing I wanted to add is we were just talking about the like online mob vitriol that Katie received. Sadie and Annie Martinez also received that.
00:28:36.680Well, I mean, they for them, it was kind of on many levels. Like they got messages on Facebook and Instagram. So did their kids. It was a lot of like subtle things that would happen in person. Like they would see a van parked outside their house and be like, what is that van? And before they never would have worried about it. You know, but now they're like, what is that? Someone following us? Or they would be shopping and people would be staring at them. And at one point, Sadie overheard some women be like, oh, those are the kidnappers.
00:29:06.200And so they felt like it followed them around and it definitely it changed them in some pretty concrete ways.
00:29:12.640Like Eddie, just he's always been kind of a homebody, but now he really prefers to just like go to work, come home.
00:29:20.220He kind of looks down. He doesn't try to make eye contact with people.
00:29:23.100He doesn't want to give anyone fuel for any kind of accusation like that ever again.
00:29:27.740He's kind of afraid to be around kids who aren't his kids or his grandkids.0.99
00:29:33.160Yeah. And with Sadie, she was laid off during the pandemic, like so many of us. And it took her a really long time to find a new job. And she was convinced it was because people were Googling her and they were like seeing all the baggage, you know, even though she did nothing wrong. It's like, do we really want an employee who's been associated with this thing? And so it just took a long time. And they had trouble finding housing. They had to find a new place to live during all of this. And that took a long time, too.0.99
00:29:58.920So it just affected all of them in pretty tangible ways.
00:30:06.040Time for a quick break. Be right back.
00:30:20.180How much did you talk to the Martinez's for this podcast?
00:30:25.180Um, I interviewed both of them, Sadie and Eddie, like before the trial, I saw them, you know, at the courthouse. They were both witnesses, which meant they couldn't be in court for the rest of the time. Right. But they had a good friend who was there every day. And I would often debrief with them or with their friend after court every day.
00:30:47.160I mean, I talked to them right after the verdict, right after the sentencing.
00:30:51.620And yeah, we have I mean, we've we've stayed in touch.
00:31:14.360Yeah. And also and also bribery bribery works. And I just give them a I actually just I this podcast always goes in a direction that we do not expect. I let them be naked and sit on the potty and give them a screen for a long time and then give them an M&M when they poop.0.60
00:31:30.560Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely been using M&Ms. So but yeah, I mean, I think I I mean, personally, like as a reporter, like I like stories where it's not really clear, like who's the victim and who's the perpetrator.0.95
00:31:46.500And so this story was interesting because it actually was quite clear cut. Like there wasn't a lot of gray about what happens. But even within that, I thought I just thought Sadie was really interesting how she wanted to fight back and how she didn't take it standing sitting down and was like, no, like I'm going to go public and I'm going to go big.
00:32:04.880And I want everyone to know what happened to us because our story needs to go viral, too.
00:32:09.040Otherwise, no one will know we're innocent.
00:32:11.300And she just seemed really Internet savvy in that way.
00:32:14.160Like she kind of got it, you know, and I thought that was really interesting.
00:32:19.460Do you think that she got the vindication that she wanted?
00:32:21.820Do you think that her story has gone viral in a way that they have been vindicated?
00:37:12.980I'm also here for for this ridiculousness. OK, yeah. The conspiracy was called Save the Children, which is the name of this like very old established nonprofit that does work with children around the world.0.85
00:37:24.160Yes. And QAnon followers sort of appropriated the name to insinuate that like this cabal of global elites, you know, mostly Jewish, are like trafficking children because they're pedophiles and they want to like, you know, harvest this strain, this hormone in their blood that gives them strength.0.75
00:37:44.840and they're trafficking them through Wayfair0.79
00:37:46.880and through snatching them in Ikea and Target.0.68
00:37:50.480And, you know, it's white kids that are the victims.0.62
00:37:54.640And so a lot of the imagery that ended up in these memes
00:37:58.240that were affiliated with Save the Children
00:37:59.600were like a white girl with like a brown hand over her mouth.
00:38:03.080Or there's like a white kid with like a, you know,
00:38:06.380there's like shadowy figures in the background
00:41:49.080And I think that goes to the Instagram account, which is portraying Katie as a victim of this kind of rigged system that is, you know, California is out to get white conservatives. So that's a whole other wormhole there. But yeah, that's kind of their point of view.
00:42:07.900California's got a lot of got a lot of shit wrong with it.0.97
00:42:55.240Yeah, I also covered, you know, a lot of Naomi Campbell after she'd thrown the phone at her assistant and when she was throwing, like, the temper tantrums.0.93
00:43:04.000And her fashion choices during that time period were fucking impeccable.
00:43:09.380I think it is important as a woman.0.99
00:43:11.460I mean, and so Katie would wear, like I said, a lot of beiges.0.68
00:43:13.900She frequently had her tortoiseshell glasses on.
00:43:17.380The day that she testified, the first thing she did was look at the jury, smile, and introduce herself as a mother, which was a really interesting strategic move.