00:00:23.600Bombshell, the Supreme Court poised to strike down Roe versus Wade.
00:00:28.120After I saw the news leak on Politico, I knew...
00:00:30.420By the time this episode airs, we may see a complete erosion of women's autonomy over their own bodies by the Supreme Court of the United States of America.0.84
00:00:42.060But we do begin with New York City declaring a state of emergency over the nationwide baby formula shortage.0.63
00:00:48.000And of course, just when the government is forcing women to quite possibly have children
00:00:53.040they cannot afford, we are also seeing a massive shortage of formula that is mainly caused
00:01:01.300by the draconian laws governing how formula is manufactured and distributed in this country.0.99
00:04:27.740Tell me, are we recording now, like, for the thing?
00:04:29.660Oh, we are. We are. Yeah. Lozenge away. Eliza Reid, first lady of Iceland, is the kind of woman who will just tell you she's chomping away on a cough drop, which made me love her from the very start of this conversation.
00:04:44.220I just scarfed down a whole bowl of macaroni and cheese in three minutes. So yes.
00:04:50.260Right. It's possible on this book tour that I had Cheetos for breakfast one day. I'm just no judgment.
00:04:55.880I swear to God, we eventually did talk about gender and power and women's history and agency and very important things.
00:05:04.680So I picked up your book, Secrets of the Spracker, on a whim because we've been talking about Iceland this season so much and Iceland's wonderful gender equity.
00:05:15.820And this is a book literally entitled Iceland's Extraordinary Women and How They Are Changing the World.
00:05:22.260And you are the first lady of Iceland.
00:05:26.360So you have a great perspective on this, but also not a native Icelander.
00:05:48.480So what are the things that Iceland does to support women that you think makes it possible for women to thrive in this country?
00:05:57.000I think one of the biggest things actually is that really as a society, we've kind of passed the tipping point of debating whether trying to achieve gender equality is something important and move to how we're going to achieve it.
00:06:09.640So we've kind of realized that working to achieve greater equitability like that isn't a zero-sum game that is benefiting one group at the expense of another group.
00:06:19.460It's something that is elevating everyone.
00:06:22.360It's something that is giving us a higher quality of life for people of all genders.
00:06:27.060And so that's really helpful to us that we can kind of focus most of our energies on how to improve what we're already doing.
00:06:33.320So some of the things that the Icelandic government is doing, for example, are these systems of state-provided parental leave.
00:06:40.460So it's a use-it or lose-it system, which means that each parent is allocated a number of months of parental leave that's paid for by the state.
00:06:47.220So if you're self-employed, you know, you still get the benefits, which obviously encourages fathers to be very involved with their children's upbringing.
00:06:53.200And then there's heavily subsidized child care of an excellent quality with even further subsidies if you have many children in the system or if you're a single parent or something like that.
00:07:01.860And really that kind of infrastructure for families has been created that is really, really beneficial. But with the book, I'm also trying to just inspire people in their everyday lives so that even if you happen to live somewhere that doesn't have some of these, this more structured support, hopefully there are some ideas or inspiration there for how we can really live more equitable lives and use our voices and elevate other people's voices too.
00:07:27.780Yeah, and that's one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about. One of the things we keep talking about this season is how much power I think women have on the internet and content creation on the internet and in technology in general, and how we don't always realize that we have that power, we don't see it.
00:07:46.940I think that that's a great point that you make about this power of all types that we have. And I think a lot of it is about using our voices and not being afraid to use our voices. I think so often women have been socialized as we've grown up to, to minimize ourselves to make ourselves smaller, not to disturb other people, not to bother other people, not to take up space. And I think what we need to do is take up space.
00:08:10.500We aren't using the space that we deserve in all kinds of areas of society, whether that is in public life, whether that is in corporate life or in the media.
00:08:21.800And I hope that this book kind of serves to inspire people a little bit to kind of see life with the gender equality glasses, but also speaking up for each other and making sure that we have a diversity of voices represented in various situations, I think is really important.
00:08:49.640Or a woman who runs this volunteer search and rescue organization.0.83
00:08:52.940And these are things that people do, even though they're in the minority, but just because
00:08:56.960that's something that they want to pursue.
00:08:58.360And I think that as women, we have to really do what we want to do and not let others tell
00:09:03.860us, is it the right time? Are you sure you want to do this? What about your kids? What are your
00:09:08.220kids going to say when you choose to do this? And I think we really kind of, I guess, to put it
00:09:13.120rather crudely, in a sense, need to be a little bit more selfish, you know, need to also think
00:09:18.380of ourselves. 100%. I really couldn't agree more. I am about to have a surprise third baby,
00:09:26.580which is very exciting, which also happened in Fargo. I found your book in Fargo, and I made
00:09:32.000a baby there. So really good things come out of Fargo, North Dakota, I have to say. And the first
00:09:37.960thing my even my husband, my very feminist, wonderful husband asked is, you know, I want to
00:09:44.160start start teaching at university next year. And he said, Well, you won't be able to do it,
00:09:50.120you're gonna have a have a baby in December. And I'm like, No, we're gonna figure out how to do it.
00:09:54.260This is what I want to do. And I don't think that I'm going to continue to write two books that I'm
00:10:00.660writing and making these podcasts and teach at a goddamn university. Because I think that mothers0.97
00:10:06.040have the power to do these things. We just need the support. And I just looked at him. I looked1.00
00:10:10.300at him very, very squarely. I'm like, I need the support. And that is you. That is you supporting
00:10:15.040me accomplishing these goals. I wonder how many people are asking your husband that question now
00:10:19.380that he is having another child. Nobody. Absolutely nobody. He like goes out and
00:10:23.740announces his, you know, virility. And yeah, people are slapping a guy, what a dude, what a
00:10:31.020you're almost 50, slapping him on the back and still got it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No question.
00:10:37.480No question about whether or not. And you got to say, like, this baby making now he's kind of done
00:10:42.820the crucial part for him. Yeah. And there's a whole lot more work involved for you still.
00:10:47.700Exactly. Exactly. So much more work. So much. So you had four kids in about six years, right?
00:10:53.400which is making me feel amazing reading your story is making me feel amazing
00:10:58.580but your husband took the paternity leave that was offered in your country tell me a little bit
00:11:04.640about that yes when our children were born he was working at the university I was working freelance
00:11:08.980I took five months off when our son was born and then he took four months off when I went back to
00:11:15.680work and and then we kind of puzzled it together somehow in between and then our son started in
00:11:22.100full time childcare when he was a year old. And and so that meant that, of course, my husband also
00:11:27.660knew his schedules and his nap times and his favorite food and, you know, the washing all the
00:11:33.620cloth diapers and, and all of this sort of thing. He was he was really involved with that. And it
00:11:39.140also means because you know, I went back to work, as do most mothers in Iceland, there wasn't this
00:11:44.400feeling like, are you ready to go back to work? Do you feel guilty about going back to work when
00:11:48.400your son is this age, there's a lot less of the sense of it's an either or sort of binary that you
00:11:53.960either have to, you know, focus on your career and be successful in your career, or you can be a
00:11:58.720really focused and good mother. And I'm not saying that the, you know, it works all the time. You
00:12:04.940know, there's many weekends when I don't win mom of the year by any stretch of the imagination,
00:12:09.840or there's certainly lots of projects and trips and events that I've said no to because I want
00:12:14.480to spend more time with my kids. But at least I feel like I get to choose that balance myself
00:12:20.140without feeling judgment from society. Do you feel like there's less judgment of mothers in
00:12:25.820Iceland? Well, I've never lived in the US. So I don't maybe have a real bad here sense of it.
00:12:32.420That's what people tell me, I should say. So from what I'm told, yes. But that's really also up to
00:12:38.160us. I mean, do we need to then look at ourselves? Are we making these unconscious judgments or
00:12:43.620decisions or offhand remarks without thinking about the impact that it can have, you know,
00:12:48.560even if even if it's well intentioned. So when people are saying to you now, how are you going
00:12:53.360to do it all? How do you manage it all? I'm sure that that adds extra stress for you. But but I
00:12:58.920think, you know, we all have a duty to sort of help each other out in a sense. But maybe then
00:13:03.160you have an opportunity if you wish to, to be a role model for other people so that, you know,
00:13:08.600probably you're in the privileged position that some of these projects you can bring the new1.00
00:13:13.600baby with you or you can you can choose your own working hours which a lot of women of course1.00
00:13:18.320don't have the opportunity to do and therefore if you're able to do that in the job that might1.00
00:13:24.300inspire some other women to say look in my job where I have less flexibility maybe I should1.00
00:13:28.620start asking for that because it should be something that we're entitled to do because1.00
00:13:33.220we need these women's voices in the workplace.1.00
00:13:43.600I was just at a mom influencing conference and I was in a room with women who collectively1.00
00:13:53.080probably had half a billion followers. They know they're entrepreneurs. They know they're the next1.00
00:14:00.020wave of content creators. They have a huge audience, but I think they were still often
00:14:05.860discounting the power of their voices. And one of the things we talked about is I said,
00:14:11.620you can show your audience that you left to come to this conference in Los Angeles. You left your
00:14:17.500children and it's okay. Yeah. And they're on devices and they're eating pizza or my kids
00:14:22.700would be for sure. Exactly. And that's okay. And that mine are right now, while I am talking to
00:14:28.080you, the first lady of Iceland, my kid is watching Encanto for the 57th time. Awesome. Totally. And
00:14:34.480I think that's okay. Good for you because mom has to work too and has things to do. And I think
00:14:39.640that's, you know, there's the key word influencer. And I would not call myself an influencer. But
00:14:44.200it's absolutely something I think of in the sense that I'm a public figure in Iceland. And I have
00:14:48.840this immense privilege and joy of serving as First Lady, which of course, has the sort of
00:14:53.980expectations. And of course, I need to serve and I want to serve with the dignity that the office
00:14:59.280deserves. But I also have to be me. And I'm a very grounded, laid back, pretty informal person.
00:15:06.340And so I really try, you know, just even beyond gender equality, thinking, okay, I'm in this public role, I think it's okay, for example, that, you know, I'm seen wearing the same outfit multiple times on different occasions, because guess what, that's what people do.
00:15:21.140And I think especially while women are still judged so much on what they're wearing or what they look like, while I think we work to change that, we work to focusing on what women are saying and what they have to say, we can also still send particular messages with that by saying that it's fine to re-wear your clothes and do all of this.
00:15:39.000And that's why we talk a lot about authenticity and how I think that women who have influence, who have an audience, it's really time to show the messy parts of our lives. And not the messy parts, just the real parts of our lives.
00:15:54.580that we are re-wearing an outfit that half the time I'm still wearing my pajama pants when I do
00:16:01.280my interviews on television, on CNN. I'm like, I'm office on the top and party on the bottom.
00:16:07.760I'm in the mullet of clothing. I have done that too. And I'm a first lady. It's okay.
00:16:12.900Right? Yes, exactly. Or that we let our kids eat all the crap frozen pizza and watch the screens
00:16:18.520and leave them to go do our jobs. And maybe we don't even feel guilty about it.0.98
00:16:24.580maybe I don't feel guilty about it. No, I don't feel guilty about it. But sometimes every time
00:16:29.080I leave my kids, because and this is such an American thing. I don't know how many Americans
00:16:33.640you follow on the social medias. But I all I just see so much about mom guilt. And I know that it is1.00
00:16:39.600a real thing. But I feel like we feel like we have to say it. And when I leave them, I don't feel
00:16:44.720guilty there with their other parent who is a full is a parent, who is fully responsible for making
00:16:49.940them. No, absolutely. I completely agree with you. And I think there's two things there I want0.64
00:16:54.160to say one is exactly this idea about that, you know, the emotional energy that we spend
00:16:59.600feeling guilty, or that we're not enough, or that we haven't managed to do this or that or the other
00:17:04.660thing. But we can't, we can't all do it all. You know, I feel I'm so incredibly privileged,
00:17:09.840and I can't do it all by any stretch of the imagination. And the second thing that I want
00:17:14.400to point out, which again, links to your idea there of influencer and social media and, and how
00:17:19.180we curate lives for ourselves. Because when we're looking at Instagram photos, and all these videos,
00:17:25.160those are curated images, of course, you know, and we're presenting a view. And I know for me,
00:17:30.840I'm active, say on Instagram, and I try to showcase a lot that sort of non traditional
00:17:36.360first lady things that I do. First of all, I show that my work, which is writing books and
00:17:40.900running a writers festival, in addition to my first lady work. And when I talk about the first
00:17:45.440lady work, I try to, you know, quote from my speeches and show me talking and, and, you know,
00:17:50.440actually using my voice. But I also know that people really engage with a cute selfie in the
00:17:56.600morning. And so you really have to show a balance with that. But one of the one rules that I have
00:18:01.680with say, if I post a selfie or I'm doing this is I take one photo pretty much, and that's it.
00:18:06.180And I certainly never, you know, put a filter on it or change it or something like that. Like
00:18:11.280if this is the photo, this is how I look. And I'm a 46 year old woman. And I have gray hairs
00:18:16.940and blotchy skin. And that's just life. Yes, I have many chins now. And that is okay. It is okay
00:18:24.980to show my neck on the Instagrams. It's it's healthy, because it's very normal. And you know,
00:18:29.840it may be on this book tour that I had Cheetos for breakfast one morning. But that's what happens.
00:18:36.480And if I was going to do it, I really enjoyed having those Cheetos for breakfast, because it
00:18:39.580isn't something you do all the time. Yes, no guilt. I want to go back a little bit to the
00:18:43.320because I love teaching our listeners something where the concept of the Sprakkar came from,
00:18:48.960because it's pretty ancient. It's pretty old, right? Yeah, it's not only old, but it's also
00:18:53.380obscure. And I think that listeners everywhere want to hear a bit about Icelandic grammar all
00:18:58.340the time. Am I right? Oh, my gosh. Yes. Wait, wait, before you tell me what you're gonna say.
00:19:02.200I have to tell you my favorite word that I learned in the book, my favorite Icelandic word,1.00
00:19:07.260you're gonna have to say it for me but it's the word for stomach stomach sisters the women that
00:19:12.500have the women that have slept with the same man yeah clear sisters it's you know it's sort of a1.00
00:19:18.760female adaptation of a like a more common word about two people who've slept with the same people
00:19:23.000but yeah there's there's great words in the Icelandic language and sprakar is a plural word
00:19:28.040the singular is spraki it's really old it means outstanding woman or extraordinary woman and I
00:19:35.000love the word because it you know if you think in English of all the words that we have to describe
00:19:40.940women in an exclusively positive way you wouldn't have a very long podcast I mean if you can you
00:19:48.020think of any any words no a single word no so I love that for that reason and also this is an old
00:19:56.140it's really obscure as I said even Icelanders didn't know this word because here's your
00:19:59.960grammar lesson, it kind of evolved into a word for Spraki, which means leader, but can be applied
00:20:06.680to men or women. So it wasn't I was so nervous about using it, because we know we're women,
00:20:11.200and we get nervous about with this be okay, or am I allowed to do this? I called this institute in
00:20:17.160Iceland that is almost a caretaker of the Icelandic language. And the woman who runs that institute
00:20:21.580hadn't heard of the word. And I was like, can I use it? Is it a legitimate word? And she said,
00:20:25.360yes, and people I spoke to. So I'm really trying to bring the word back in the even to modern
00:20:29.320in circulation in Iceland. Well, let's bring it into circulation in the US. Let's let's yeah,
00:20:35.360let's let's let's make sure that people are hashtag Sprakar. Please, I would love that.
00:20:41.340And I would share that. And I think it happened actually did a couple of interviews, national
00:20:45.320interviews when the book came out. And then as an insecure first time writer would do,
00:20:49.180I would like Google my name or Google Sprakar. And then I saw a few people I just posted about
00:20:53.900this word Sprakar, which I thought was really exciting. And I think we should just, you know,0.98
00:20:58.460elevate and talk about the SPRACA in our lives and the friends of the SPRACA in our lives. I think
00:21:03.680working towards gender equality isn't a women's issue. It's a societal issue and a human rights
00:21:08.000issue. And it's not something that's just for women to benefit from. So shout out to all of1.00
00:21:12.820the men who get that too, of which there are a lot. You know, I really am an optimist.
00:21:17.500There are fantastic men. There's a lot of good men. And I think that we should show the men
00:21:21.880doing the work more often on social media in in media media in television shows in movies and
00:21:29.680when we we still in american movies and culture when we see a father caretaking it's the punch
00:21:36.460line it's he doesn't know he's fumbling he doesn't know how to do anything yeah he's never ever the
00:21:42.440competent caretaker of his children no you're right and we set the bar so low for men and i
00:21:48.860think that does them a disservice. I think we set this bar so low that just that they given them one1.00
00:21:54.960meal. It's amazing. There was like a Canadian story on Mother's Day on a sort of satirical
00:22:00.500website, like the onion kind of thing. And the headline was something like dad celebrates Mother's
00:22:05.880Day by preheating the oven for his wife. And it is kind of true that we have this low standard and
00:22:11.200that does men a disservice. And so if we women also don't expect that they can do it, if we think,
00:22:16.980well, I have to manage this because they can never remember a birthday, or they have no idea1.00
00:22:20.560how to cook a healthy meal, then we're not going to achieve it either. And it just does everyone a
00:22:25.060disservice. Yeah, absolutely. We're calling for a women's day off the internet modeled off of your
00:22:31.600wonderful countries, women's day off, where content creators and tech workers, average citizens just0.51
00:22:39.540don't do things on the internet for space of a working day, eight hours, that's it, to show just1.00
00:22:45.360how much women are creating both content, but also fueling all of the commerce on the internet.0.99
00:22:50.940But what I think is allowable on that day is you can have your husband post pictures of him doing
00:22:57.720the work of caretaking and caregiving to your audience, because that's exactly what we need
00:23:04.200to see more of. We also need to see women more in these traditional male spaces on the internet,0.76
00:23:09.800you know, in the business section and the finance section, all those areas where it tends to be
00:23:14.680guys who are doing something and we're just not noticing the women I think what else do you want
00:23:19.460people to know about this book before they pick it up and read it and I'm telling everyone to
00:23:24.440read it by the way well thank you so much that's fantastic um what do I want to know people know
00:23:29.600about the book well I guess I hope that people know or realize that it is kind of it's a sort
00:23:36.240of it's a love story to Iceland you know and it's a portrait of a country with gender equality as
00:23:41.300the theme. So I want people to know that the tone of the book, if you've liked listening to this
00:23:46.160podcast, and you think, oh, that Eliza, she can be funny sometimes, or she's someone that I would
00:23:51.020want to have a drink with. That's the tone of the book. I hope it's very sort of anecdotal and
00:23:55.360friendly, but still full of interesting information, and hopefully inspiring and optimistic, but
00:24:00.400realistic. It's not a sort of dry treatise on feminism. It's not an academic work, although0.94
00:24:07.100there's further reading and footnotes for people who want it. It's not a complaining, angry book.
00:24:13.000It's like you went out for a glass of wine with me. So I hope that people who want kind of a smart
00:24:18.500and interesting read, but it's not super heavy and want to learn about a new country and kind
00:24:23.620of feel hopeful and inspired. That's true. It's true. That was a great description because that's
00:24:29.000exactly how I felt about it. Well, and I also have to say, I really, I really did love your
00:24:33.280chapter on the strength in sisterhood, and women supporting other women, and just how important
00:24:41.800that is to have strong networks of support. I think too often, women have been pitted against
00:24:47.620each other, particularly in American society. And we think that we're constantly competing.0.97
00:24:52.940And that's not true. The tides rise all boats. And you really get into that in that chapter.
00:24:58.520I think that's important to talk about, because you're right. Sometimes I think if I'm being
00:25:02.420grub I say it's just a construct of the patriarchy to like pull people to use wedge issues and say
00:25:06.800that women are fighting against each other when they shouldn't obviously it happens sometimes you
00:25:10.660know we're a place like everywhere else but the two groups of people that I speak to in that
00:25:15.140chapter I liked because one of these older women who volunteered you know for decades with these
00:25:20.500women's associations which are kind of I guess you'd see like church groups in the states or
00:25:24.140something although these are not you know religiously affiliated and just the amount of
00:25:28.440work that they devote to the community, but also the benefits that they get for themselves, you
00:25:33.560know, in these kind of remote areas of friendship. But the second group are these women around the
00:25:39.000age of 50, who decided to swim across the English Channel to raise money for charity. And they went,
00:25:44.280you know, every week, and they were training, and they were swimming in the sea in the North
00:25:47.360Atlantic. And it takes a lot of effort, you really have to kind of carve out time for yourselves.
00:25:53.040And they said as well, when they spoke to people, they would say, like, what does your husband
00:25:57.060think of this? Or what do your children think? Even though they said, of course, the guys,
00:26:01.260they go off for a golf weekend, and it's just the guys, they've got to get together and have
00:26:04.560their time alone. But for somehow for women, it was this sense of, are you allowed to do this?
00:26:10.040But they said, absolutely, we're allowed to do this. And it's really important. And it's important
00:26:14.460for our children to see that we are taking the time to do this.
00:26:17.780Absolutely. I think it is so important for our children to see us taking time to do things that
00:26:21.980we love, that we're passionate about. And my favorite thing about these women is that they0.95
00:26:27.120were called the jellyfish. Yes, they're called the jellyfish. In Iceland, it's very, you often1.00
00:26:32.140have these names for organizations. Like I think I mentioned at the beginning, two of them knew
00:26:36.360each other because they were in a walking group and the walking group was called Shut Up Magnus.
00:26:40.780I have no idea why, but I love it. It's one of those, yeah, strange things. And that same group
00:26:45.200and many of that same group of women walked up Iceland's highest peak last year as well. So
00:26:51.180they're still doing all these really amazing physical challenges. Wonderful. Well, go enjoy
00:26:56.100your Cheetos and everything. I love her. I just love her. I love anyone that I can talk to about1.00
00:27:02.520Cheetos and wine and women first thing in the morning, right when I open my eyes. And I also
00:27:09.160love you guys. I'm very excited for us to keep talking about the many ways that women are
00:27:14.600influencing the world on and off social media and don't forget the women's day off is coming1.00
00:27:21.360it's going to be on my birthday because i like to make things all about me and maybe just maybe
00:27:27.780i'll be going to iceland for it do you guys also like that very soft very quiet third baby
00:27:33.880pregnancy announcement that i made in this podcast still haven't put it on instagram
00:27:38.120even though i'd probably get like a million followers if i did because instagram loves
00:27:42.740pregnant bellies. Until next time, my friends, I'm Joe Piazza, and you're Under the Influence.0.75
00:27:52.780Under the Influence is hosted by me, Joe Piazza. Emily Marinoff is our senior producer,
00:27:59.180and Erin Peterson produced this episode. As always, our theme and additional music
00:28:04.180was composed by Jackie Huntington and Jessica Kreinchich. We're executive produced by me
00:28:09.740and Nikki Tor. And please, please, please go out and buy Eliza Reed's wonderful new book,