00:00:22.340Welcome to the Under the Influence podcast.
00:00:25.220I am so crazy pants excited to be here with you today.
00:00:28.920I know that we have a lot of new listeners, and I'm just so honored that you chose this podcast among the many, many shows that you could be listening to.
00:00:38.200As longtime listeners know, I am on a mission to peel back the curtain on how social media impacts our lives for better and often for worse.
00:00:47.960And to help us all figure out how to live just a little bit more mindfully and happily with these devices that are glued to our hands.
00:00:56.100And I'm figuring it all out right along with you. I'm your guinea pig, friends. Sexy guinea pig,
00:01:03.580but I'm your guinea pig. Now today, I want to talk about one of my favorite subjects,
00:01:08.980travel. I love traveling. Traveling is my passion. It's what I want to do if I ever retire.
00:01:16.880And for a long time, traveling was also my job. My novel, The Sicilian Inheritance,
00:01:22.480was partially born out of my love of travel. And I also know that it has already inspired many of
00:01:29.480you to book a trip to Sicily. And I'm helping a lot of you plan those trips, which I love. I love
00:01:35.420that for you so much. I also really quick want to let you know that we're extending our lifetime
00:01:41.100newsletter subscription to everyone who purchases a new copy of the Sicilian inheritance before the
00:01:47.580end of the month. That is a free $80 a year subscription to our exclusive over the influence
00:01:54.280newsletter for you, a friend, your mom, Harrison Butker. So grab a copy today. Starting June 2,
00:02:00.960there's a big sale on the Amazons. So we're going to stop this for a little while. So if you've been
00:02:06.840on the fence about buying your hot Sicilian, grab a copy. We were just written up in Katie
00:02:11.480Cork's newsletter as a best beach read. I love me some Katie. I've got to get her on the show.
00:02:16.540In fact, I'm going to text her right now, and I know that you will love it. I do.
00:02:26.840Traveling is what inspired me to be a novelist.
00:02:29.560I met my husband, the sweet, sweet Nick Astor, while traveling on a boat in the Galapagos Islands.
00:02:35.040Traveling helped me treat my anxiety in many, many different ways,
00:02:39.180and I truly believe that traveling makes me a better parent.
00:02:43.060Now, social media can be a wonderful tool for travel.
00:02:47.680It can help you discover things you never would have known.
00:02:50.440It can connect you with locals when you travel.
00:02:53.920But it also has an enormous power to ruin travel if you aren't careful with it.
00:03:00.420Instagram travel posts can cause us so much anxiety when our own trips don't live up to the completely filtered and photoshopped photos that we see in our scroll.
00:03:11.180and influencer posting can completely destroy the beauty of a destination as everyone clamors to go
00:03:19.080there to get the same exact photos. Here to talk to me about how we can all be happier and more
00:03:25.880productive travelers while using and limiting our social media is my dear friend Jordi Lippey.
00:03:32.660Jordi is an award-winning travel journalist and entrepreneur and we met 15 years ago when I was
00:03:38.760running the news department of one of your favorite trashy supermarket celebrity magazines.
00:03:44.260Jordi, at the time, was a reporter, and she was my go-to girl to crash the bachelor and
00:03:49.420bachelorette engagement ceremonies on far-flung tropical islands. Yes, that was a job, and it was
00:03:56.200a very good job, and Jordi was the best at it. Today, Jordi is traveling all over the world with
00:04:02.740her husband and young son, writing incredible travel pieces while also launching her own travel
00:04:08.080brand called Pack Rev. I'm very excited to dig into all of the different ways that Jordi limits
00:04:14.880her own social media use when she travels for work and how both of us navigate the confusing
00:04:20.500world of travel influencers. Hi, Jordi. I am so glad to have you here today. My voice is extra
00:04:33.240sexy because of a chest infection that I have. This morning, Nick was like, oh, your voice sounds
00:04:39.340sexy. And I'm like, you shut the fuck up, sir. You shut the fuck up. Maybe you should go into1.00
00:04:44.120a whole different realm of that. Just for the week. Just for the week. I mean, look, if I thought
00:04:48.840I would make money, I would 100% do it. OK, I've got no boundaries at this point. I am completely
00:04:56.080and totally here for that. You have become an incredibly accomplished travel writer. Your
00:05:02.560writing is beautiful. Your reporting all over the globe is so, so good. And I'm just I'm so
00:05:08.860impressed by the trajectory of your career. And now you're an entrepreneur, which we're going to
00:05:13.840get into. And today I want to talk a little bit about social media and travel and how social
00:05:20.200media has changed travel. I've written about it over the years. I wrote a piece eight years ago
00:05:25.740about does social media ruin travel? And I just reread it. And I'm like, you're cute.
00:05:32.140I'm going to ask the big question, and then we'll get into the littler questions.
00:05:36.140Do you think social media has ruined travel?
00:13:55.680okay we're back now i want to talk about all of the ways that social media can cause anxiety when
00:14:09.040we travel and there's many many ways you mentioned feeling a pressure as a travel journalist an
00:14:15.560award-winning travel journalist by the way uh to to capture those perfect photos because people are
00:14:23.060coming to you as an authority. And that's stressful, right? And I think that that stress
00:14:29.620often leads us to sometimes alter photos and then to perpetuate the perfectionism that exists on
00:14:39.920Instagram. Talk to me a little bit about that. I mean, yeah, because I don't have as large of
00:14:47.720a following, it's not how I make my money or anything like that. I don't feel the pressure
00:14:52.440that i've been on trips before with like you know travel influencers with the big eye you know what
00:14:58.780i mean where the how they're making their money and it's a very different experience they're
00:15:03.360having versus me so i feel like there's a whole nother level of pressure that i'm not experiencing
00:15:07.600but yes because i do have this you know authority in the travel space i feel some of that pressure
00:15:14.980And what I've tried to do is. Any photo that I want to be kind of like the perfect photo in a way, I save it for one chunk of time while I'm traveling and just be like, OK, this is the time I'm going to get whatever I need for my social media.
00:15:33.820And then the rest of the time, I'm just going to snap my normal photos, be on my normal vacation and try to be in the moment.
00:15:39.040Because especially as a travel writer, you need to be experiencing it.
00:15:42.540You cannot be worrying about the photo or else you're going to completely miss the experience versus maybe a travel influencer who's just worried about getting the photo.
00:15:50.340So I try to kind of put it all into one hour and get all the pretty shots that I need.
00:15:59.280I don't like tune or do anything like that, but maybe I'll throw a filter on.
00:16:03.820But that's how I've right now tried to find that balance.
00:16:09.000So I don't feel the need to get a perfect shot when I'm getting this incredible opportunity to travel with my husband and son or even by myself.
00:16:18.220Yeah. Yeah. Well, because it is time consuming. Right.
00:16:20.840And I think that's another thing. It takes you out of the experience.
00:16:24.040And that's what I had written when I when I wrote my piece years ago for Yahoo Travel.
00:16:29.480I was in Zion National Park and Moab. And I remember when I had the phone, it's like my gaze was through the phone, not through actual enjoyment of experience. And that is one of my bigger concerns, that if we're constantly thinking about how something will be perceived, we're not actually enjoying the thing that we're doing.
00:16:52.060Yeah. And I think that's that's the worst part of it, because the whole reason that you had people posting on social media and sharing these hidden gems is so you could go and experience them, not just to go and take the photo and check it off a list.
00:17:06.020So, yeah, you have to make a conscious effort, I think, to be in the moment.
00:17:11.780And something else that I also do is I'll share on my stories when I'm traveling and that's completely unfiltered.
00:17:19.160that's just showing the ups and downs especially I mean you know you have three kids I have one
00:17:23.920like traveling with kids is not it can look glamorous if you post that one beautiful photo
00:17:28.960on the beach and everyone's smiling but there's tantrums there's meltdowns there's sicknesses all
00:17:35.320this kind of stuff so I actually also try to share that aspect of it at least through my stories so
00:17:40.280you're getting a full picture as much as possible of what travel entails yes it's filled with these
00:17:45.760beautiful moment but solana yeah on the security line you know total total um but like yeah and
00:17:56.280and meltdowns i actually i had a wonderful revelation the other day because we travel
00:18:00.860a lot with the kids uh i mean as much as we can and for a while i was like they don't i don't think
00:18:07.240they're into it i don't like again and it doesn't matter i don't care if they're into it you wrote
00:18:11.120this great story for the wall street journal why travel with kids and i'm like that's the point
00:18:15.420isn't them remembering it the point is like collective family memories um and very recently
00:18:20.600like charlie at bedtime has been asking me to tell him travel stories like he's very hungry for them
00:18:26.460um and b is asking to like plan our next trip which i think is great like that's exactly what
00:18:32.200i wanted to do i don't they're not going to remember these specific trips but i want to
00:18:36.160instill in them a love of travel um and i think so much so much about travel and my love of travel
00:18:43.640is the letting go yeah the you know letting go of like all of the other trappings of what's
00:18:51.180happening in your life and it's hard to let go when you're constantly tied to a device so I am
00:18:57.800look I am very imperfect but I am consciously trying to put away the devices and then to take
00:19:05.520them out at very specific times like prescribed times almost it's like and if I think that that
00:19:11.920is how we're going to have to live with devices is that we have to be mindful about it um and
00:19:17.300mindful about putting them away i know some people too who will take the photos obviously in the
00:19:22.240moment but not post until they actually get back from the trip so yes they're getting they're
00:19:26.780taking some photos but they're not worried about like okay i gotta take this photo now i have to
00:19:30.900upload it live while i'm on this safari or whatever so they they take those photos take the time to
00:19:36.540enjoy the experience, and then later we'll go back and upload them, which I think is something
00:19:42.100that's an interesting way to go about it as well. Totally, totally. My other concern, and I think
00:19:51.580that this one is valid, and I've been talking to people about this recently because I'm working on
00:19:55.920a new nonfiction project about the way that social media makes us feel. And when we're looking at so
00:20:04.600many Instagram and perfect images when we get to a place and it doesn't look like that I do think
00:20:12.220there's an inevitable disappointment um and sense of anxiety almost it's like that expectation gap
00:20:19.960of like but I thought it was going to look like this and that's very different than looking in a
00:20:24.880guidebook or a magazine because we know that guidebooks and magazines are often cropped
00:20:28.980and airbrushed, and they're put together by travel professionals. Instagram, we still sort
00:20:34.220of believe that these are just normal people like us. And so if, if normal people just like us got
00:20:41.200these gorgeous pictures and had this gorgeous experience, why do I get to Rome and the Trevi
00:20:46.220Fountain is wall to wall heaving with, you know, the worst of the worst tourists all elbowing their
00:20:53.520way through like ankle high piles of trash to like sit on the ledge of this fountain whose water is
00:21:01.120not perfectly aquamarine but kind of dirty because some dude peed in it last night yeah not exactly
00:21:08.420the experience you're hoping for and yeah i think that goes back to maybe going back to the guide
00:21:15.280books and reading the articles which is why i hope that uh people find my work your work uh beneficial
00:21:22.520because you can paint a picture and then it's in your mind and maybe it's not an experience if
00:21:30.980you're going in and thinking it's going to look one way and then it doesn't um and yeah i've had
00:21:37.980those moments before where i've been to places and think it's going to look one way and i'm like
00:21:42.700wait a minute this this this is just awful it's really it's not it's not good um and i've really
00:21:50.960tried to actually just wrote a piece for the wall street journal about how uh forces like a concierge
00:21:57.200in a hotel is really underutilized because they're really going to know the spot to go not for the
00:22:03.520instagram shot but the beautiful spots that are still left undiscovered and those are the people
00:22:09.660i think that we should be leaning on those are the types of sources articles again i think going back
00:22:15.020Yeah. Like you were recommending before, they're going to, I feel like that should be the best
00:22:20.920source. Of course, it's not going to change. Everyone's going to still go to Instagram. But
00:22:24.240I think, yeah, you got to be kind of prepared for that level of disappointment often.
00:22:29.500Often. Often. Yeah. And you know, there is really a flip side because I will tell you,
00:22:34.620when I get to a place and I'm like, this exceeded all expectations, that level of joy,
00:22:39.100there should be a special German word for that level of like surprise, unexpected joy.
00:22:45.020I knew that I was going to like Lisbon. Everyone seems to like Lisbon, but I didn't know that much about it. And I got there and I was like, this is fucking amazing. Like, this is a fairy tale, lovely city filled with lovely people. And to be honest, I didn't do any research because Nick planned that as my surprise trip.
00:23:05.840So, like, I didn't have, like, the advanced, like, Instagram searching for Lisbon. And that level of just, like, joy at finding something completely better than all expectations, that was really, really special.
00:23:20.800and then i was talking to my friend jenny the other day when i was doing her podcast and i was
00:23:28.260telling her you know about this idea for a podcast we were doing and she's like oh my god when you
00:23:33.940write this book you have to include my picture of the cherry blossoms she's like all i've been doing0.72
00:23:38.800is like instagram stalking these fucking cherry blossoms in japan and we get there and there's0.78
00:23:45.280no cherry blossoms and she's like but I found one tree one tree with cherry blossoms and I made my0.98
00:23:50.820husband take a picture of me with this one blossom this one blossom and I cropped out everything else
00:23:55.920and I'm like Jenny you're part of the problem and she's like I know but I felt so compelled she's
00:24:01.320like first off I was so disappointed I thought like oh my god we just paid to fly to Japan
00:24:05.380all I want for because she'd seen so many cherry blossoms all she wanted was cherry blossoms0.99
00:24:09.600and then there's no fucking cherry blossoms but then she perpetuates the problem by pretending0.93
00:24:15.400there's cherry blossoms i know part of me feels part of the problem sometimes too and i feel like0.98
00:24:20.200it goes kind of back to the gossip phase uh yeah you have to do what you feel like is in your
00:24:26.040ethical boundary yeah yeah i had to figure out like i don't facetune i would never alter my body
00:24:31.860i don't i don't think i've ever removed a person from the photo but have i had to take 10 million
00:24:38.060photos to get the one shot where there's no one in it with the beautiful ocean behind me absolutely
00:24:43.000totally and i thought these shots i'm like if you looked at my phone there would be
00:24:48.140100 versions of this just to get that one look well i i am certainly perpetuating it too but
00:24:56.660up to that like expectations like there's that famous quote like if you don't expect anything
00:25:01.660you don't get disappointed. And I wish that more people would take the approach of getting to a
00:25:09.840destination like you did in Lisbon. And just, again, that like kind of old school travel way
00:25:15.780of like, I'm going to wander down this street and be what I see. And really being open to that kind
00:25:22.500of exploration, which is something my husband, Ross, is really good at doing. You know, you have
00:25:27.320a couple of things planned in the day. And then you just follow where the day takes you and you
00:25:33.800wander down a street that looks cute. And I found some of my best moments and the most beautiful
00:25:38.940places have been from just being open to that rather than going and searching for that perfect
00:25:44.440spot. Same. And we did the same thing in Puerto Rico recently when I took Nick for his 50th
00:25:51.980birthday. I didn't know much about Puerto Rico. There was one hotel that I was dying to stay at
00:25:56.800that I've wanted to stay at forever. El Convento. And I learned about it when I was writing my nun
00:26:01.320book. But that's it. That's the only big thing that I had. And then we just wandered. And we
00:26:08.160had a lonely planet, but I wasn't checking Instagram. And yeah, I mean, wandering, I think
00:26:14.140wandering is the best part of travel, like the unexpected. And sometimes it's bad and sometimes
00:26:20.520it's great. But I think taking the good with the bad is also just like good for our soul.
00:26:26.800Because not everything is, the world is not perfect.
00:26:29.260And I think that's also a really big problem with Instagram.0.76
00:26:32.980It's that it puts this gloss of perfection on everything and then makes you feel like shit about your life when it's not perfect.0.97
00:26:42.060And yeah, it's that expectation of having this perfect moment, this perfect.
00:26:47.080I mean, that's really what's coming from these shots, right?
00:26:49.060is not only is it a beautiful shot, but you're supposed to feel this certain way when you get
00:26:55.060there and you're going to maybe have this life all dream experience and it's going to be the
00:26:58.400most beautiful thing you've ever seen. And, um, it sort of reminded me of when I, when I gave birth
00:27:04.360to my son and everyone was like, the moment you hold your child, you're going to feel this
00:27:08.800incredible thing that you've never felt before. And your whole life will make sense. And I held
00:27:13.320him and I was like, I don't feel this way. And I turned over and I vomited, you know, and I'm like,
00:27:19.060am I a bad person for not having this same experience, not having these same feelings?
00:27:24.160And that's on it, you know, obviously a different part of my life. But when it comes to travel,
00:27:27.240it's similar, right? Like you, these photos are supposed to evoke an experience and that's sort
00:27:34.600of the undertone of it. So when you don't have that, it can, yeah, make you feel less than
00:27:38.600perfect and give that anxiety for sure. Yeah. And the anxiety is real. It is indeed. All right.
00:27:45.720We're going to take one more quick break.
00:27:47.200And when we get back, I want to talk a little bit about you've traveled with travel influencers with a capital I.
00:27:53.840I'm curious how you see them kind of changing the industry.
00:27:57.660And then I want to talk about your amazing new project, product, all of the things and what that's been like, launching that into a social media world.
00:28:09.740okay and now and now we're back you have taken trips with
00:28:39.340influencers with a capital i back in back in the yahoo travel days which now is about a decade ago
00:28:46.400we were one of the early sites that was trying to harness the power of influencers
00:28:52.960so we had a dedicated editor who collected all of the names of the travel bloggers because it
00:29:00.140was mostly bloggers at the time instagram was like just picking up um and we worked with them
00:29:06.180Like we found out where they were going. We like picked up their pieces. We drove them traffic. They brought their audience over to Yahoo Travel. It was very, very early days. And they were at that point, they were lucky if they got free trips, to be honest. But now I talk to travel publicists who are like, I pretty much mostly deal with influencers and not travel journalists. The line is completely blurred. What is your experience been traveling with influencers?
00:29:31.360So I feel like there's two very different camps, right? I think a lot of people kind of combine travel journalists and travel influencers as like, oh, you guys are kind of doing the same thing. But I think over time, it's a very different path.
00:29:44.860And the times that I've been on trips with travel influencers, it I think I mentioned this before, but it's very they're having a very different experience.
00:29:55.700It is setting up shot, tweaking the food on your plate with the lighting and having lights and doing all of these things just to get that one shot.
00:30:05.620And I've been to like a beautiful island before.
00:30:09.120and there was a couple that was a travel influencer there and travel influencers and they were having
00:30:16.320this like horrible fight in this beautiful location to try to get the perfect shot the
00:30:20.420guy wasn't doing it right you know let's do the you have to ride the bike on the boardwalk again
00:30:24.500and i'm like oh this seems so awful they're in this incredibly beautiful destination and i think
00:30:31.680as a travel journalist I get the opportunity to take it in and then craft my story later
00:30:39.360and not have to worry about the photo aspect of it whereas travel influencers I think it seems
00:30:45.260much more glamorous and I'm not saying that it's not in at the fact that they get to travel for
00:30:49.400free and go to these incredible destinations but I don't think you realize probably how miserable
00:30:55.480the experience is for them because they are there to like get the shots and if they don't get the
00:31:01.280shot, then the trip's ruined. And they're not able to actually have that genuine experience.
00:31:06.700When I was working as a travel reporter to people would be like, oh, my gosh, this is the most
00:31:11.640glamorous job in the world. And I was like, oh, yeah, I mean, it's of course, of course, of course
00:31:18.380it is. And I was so appreciative and I remain appreciative of it. That said, when I was in
00:31:23.220the thick of it, it was work. You know, I was constantly running around, constantly trying to
00:31:29.760make sure that I got like the best interview the best story like the like hidden gem like I really
00:31:35.240it is work and it's exhausting um and so yeah I see influencers hustling but I don't think they
00:31:43.860show the work in it and that's the problem like social media flattens all of the labor that goes
00:31:50.120into it and so it just it makes it all seem easy the same as social media flattens all the labor
00:31:56.780of motherhood and when you do that I think you're just doing everyone a disservice yeah but yeah and
00:32:04.240it's interesting also to see the value you know you work with different hotels or PR agencies
00:32:11.180etc and some really really value the influencers like they're king you know they're king when it
00:32:17.180comes to the kind of story that they want crafted out into the world and the travel journalists are
00:32:23.100sort of secondary like i've definitely been on trips where the influencers are treated way better
00:32:27.360than you know near not near times aren't allowed to take trips but you know these awards being a
00:32:31.980travel journalist and they're getting the best rooms and they're getting i'm just i would i don't
00:32:36.940know the answer to this but and maybe you do but i'm curious to know like is it are these influencers
00:32:43.000truly bringing more traffic to these hotels or these destinations versus an article that appears
00:32:50.480and is read by tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people.
00:32:54.620I don't know the answer to it, but it's interesting.
00:33:14.020But yeah, there are absolutely some places that I know have blown up from influencer content.
00:33:19.820I'm friends with a lot of hotel owners in the Catskills and they will tell you, oh, yeah, I'm booked.
00:33:26.760I'm fully booked or I was fully booked like for like two like whole summers because of a handful of influencers kept posting their leaf peeping pictures from here or their like hipster creek lounging pictures from here.
00:33:41.260It worked. It worked in a way that you can also never expect.
00:33:44.460And it's the same with books. I'm like, I have no idea what influencer content is going to blow up the Sicilian inheritance. In fact, I mean, for me, it's just like a blanketing the field. It's like you have to see it everywhere. So I think that can get exhausting, too. Whereas we used to know with travel. All right. If you can get in New York Times 36 hours, you're pretty golden. Like that's that's really good press. Right.
00:34:09.320but now it's like yeah you have to you have to be everywhere doing all of the things all at once
00:34:14.700all of the work all of the work all right so talk to me talk to me about how you chose
00:34:22.500it's not a pivot because you're still still a travel journalist but you decided you were going
00:34:27.860to start your own company create a travel product how did all of this come to fruition because i do
00:34:33.700think that that is kind of you know as journalism changes we all have to pivot a little bit and
00:34:39.020you've been doing it really beautifully but I also know it's really hard right yeah exactly I was
00:34:43.700also looking for other ways to utilize my skills figure out what else inspires me what I'm passionate
00:34:50.220about to see if I could again like you mentioned pivot or at least have kind of an alternative
00:34:55.480career in my life and I have a five-year-old son and I've been fortunate enough to travel the world
00:35:02.920with him since the time he was six weeks old whenever he got his first shot and he's been to
00:35:08.180five continents before he turned five. And I realized on these trips that I was sort of like
00:35:16.420piecing together a travel bag that made sense as a mom. Like I didn't want that cutesy
00:35:21.840vegan leather, which is basically plastic diaper bag. I wanted something chic. I wanted something
00:35:28.940cute, something that spoke to me as a woman and not just as a mom. But I needed the functionality
00:35:36.500of a diaper bag built into it. And I couldn't find anything on the market and I was piecing
00:35:41.380together stuff. So I thought, oh, why don't I just make my home? And so I was lucky enough
00:35:49.420to partner with a former designer at Coach who is a dad of two. And I told him my vision because
00:35:55.600I don't know how to sketch and do tech packs and know how many millimeters of nylon you need and
00:36:00.480things like that. And he helped me make this vision come to life. And I was able he was able
00:36:06.540to put me in touch with the same factory as Rebecca Minkoff. And, you know, I got a lot of
00:36:10.600great opportunities and connections because of him. And so now, yeah, my brand is called PacRev.
00:36:16.340And the stands for P-A-K is the inspiration with parents and kids. And then Rev means dream in
00:36:24.580French. So the idea is to have a product that is going to make traveling with your children,
00:36:29.260And whether it's just on a playground run or going all the way to Paris, a little bit
00:36:33.220dreamier, a little bit easier, but also create a product that really speaks to all aspects
00:36:38.940of being a woman who happens to be a mom, right?
00:36:43.360Like, I feel like once you become a mom, so much of you is asked to be put aside.
00:37:09.520And then we're going to be coming out with a tote version soon and a family passport case.
00:37:14.560Yeah, I'm obsessed with the idea of the family passport case, by the way.
00:37:19.720When you mentioned this to me, I was like, this is actually exactly what I need.
00:37:23.760Because I'm also in the phase where with three of them, yeah, no, I mean, and those passports going missing is like one of my greatest fears, just generally, because I am a person who has lost passports, who has had to get a last minute passport before.
00:37:41.200So like, you know, like that is it is one of my greatest, greatest fears.
00:37:46.060How how has it been marketing this bag?
00:37:49.380Because you've gotten so much press, like traditional press, but I'm not sure if traditional
00:38:09.940So I was like, great. I just need to get my product in some, you know, top level outlets and I'll sell a million bags. And it's not the case. It's not like a one to one thing. And I've never run a business before. I've never launched a product before. So it's definitely been a learning experience.
00:38:27.120I feel very, you know, incredibly grateful that I've gotten the press that I have and influencers have posted, which does move the needle, I will say.
00:38:37.200So that has been, again, eye-opening and coming from the other side of it.
00:38:41.520And right now, it's just me doing everything.
00:38:44.340So I'm still, and I still have my full-time freelance job.
00:38:48.200So I am still in the learning phase where it's been steady.
00:38:52.360But I think, you know, trying to figure out what is that messaging that's going to land? What is that Instagram ad maybe that will make the difference? And it's just being patient and not looking at anything as a failure, but just as a learning experience and just constantly talking about pivoting.
00:39:13.380you're pivoting all the time try this new email try that you know update this messaging on the
00:39:18.280website try this new product see what sticks reach out to this influencer try this outlet and it's0.99
00:39:23.240just uh the experimentation phase i don't think as at least as of now unless you've got a crap
00:39:29.560load of funding which i do not yes we make anything a success overnight i think again that's something
00:39:36.420that goes back to social media or even journalism in a lot of senses when you talk to these founders
00:39:41.280who have successful businesses they always seem like the overnight death when it's very rare to
00:39:48.120talk about all of the failures that came before it and that for me as a as an entrepreneur
00:39:55.980has been has been hard because I look at these other outlets these other brands rather and
00:40:01.560I'm like god how are they doing it how are they so successful and I just don't think you have the
00:40:05.820full picture the same way you don't have the full picture when you see a post on Instagram
00:40:09.360Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's another place where the expectation gap comes in and it's harmful because we do. It does seem like everyone is an instant success. Also, because no one talks about their failure.
00:40:23.180exactly no I I only recently looked at book sales for you are always mine which was the book right
00:40:31.300after uh we're not like them and it sold like 3,000 copies and it's because you know there
00:40:38.680wasn't a ton of marketing for it um and it came out in a different time like I mean there's a
00:40:44.660thousand thousand factors right but that is something that we had never talked about literally
00:40:49.700only when like people only talk about a book when it's wildly successful right now Sicilian is
00:40:56.620successful it's not wildly successful I have to fight every day to keep that going because no one
00:41:03.340else is out there doing marketing after the first two weeks yeah of a book coming out right and so
00:41:09.360I'm constantly pivoting I'm like what do people want am I doing more in-person events and I'm
00:41:14.580trying to share the journey again because i don't want people just to see the successes i want you
00:41:20.240to see like there's actual again more than anything social media flattens the labor that is behind
00:41:25.620everything and like what you are doing right now so much labor goes into launching a brand and
00:41:31.360none of it is easy so let's tell everyone where they can find you where they can find these
00:41:36.380wonderful bags so excited for these passport holders so fucking excited they should be coming
00:41:42.400out soon, but I will let you know. But yeah, you can find, speaking of Instagram, you can find me0.71
00:41:48.720on Instagram at Jordi Lippe, J-O-R-D-I-L-I-P-P-E. And my bag, my brand is Pakrev, P-A-K-R-E-V-E,
00:41:58.580which you can also find on Instagram and you can go on the website as well, pakrev.com.
00:42:04.480Yeah. And Jordi and I are going to work up some kind of giveaway. We haven't figured out what
00:42:08.800it's going to look like yet because i want to make sure that it gets people excited about pack
00:42:12.800rev and maybe we should fill it with books right like instead of diapers like i could fill
00:42:17.460a bag with a bunch of signed books um we're going to figure out something awesome an awesome giveaway
00:42:23.900so that people start following everyone and buying buying these great bags because it's
00:42:31.140it takes a village it takes a village to get anything off of the ground these days0.91
00:42:34.760absolutely and uh rising tides right the more women i think can help and support each other
00:42:40.040there's plenty of room for all of us to succeed and uh i'm always happy to help there's so much1.00
00:42:45.900room there's so much room like there's not there's not a finite amount of women that are allowed to
00:42:49.640succeed right yeah exactly exactly all right we are gonna go have a great day everyone go do
00:42:56.660something nice for yourself plan a trip plan a trip but don't look at instagram order order a
00:43:00.920nice old blue lonely planet love those guys i do thank you thank you and that is all we have for
00:43:10.880today travel well my friend travel well travel often travel wisely maybe travel without your
00:43:17.640phone for a little bit i loved being here with you today if this is one of your favorite podcasts
00:43:24.040tell a friend share it review it in all of the places because you know what sometimes we get
00:43:29.760crazy people giving us one-star reviews. Mostly men. Mostly men. Check out Jordi's brand, PacRev,
00:43:36.360and also buy yourself one or nine Sicilian inheritances. Yeah. Can't stop, won't stop.
00:43:43.140Nope. Still going. Still a marketing monster. It never ends over here. It really never ends.
00:43:49.080Go have a great day. Do something nice for yourself. You fucking deserve it.