Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - June 12, 2025


Father’s Day Shouldn’t Be a Hallmark Holiday—It Should Be a Reckoning

Topics
How to Get Published: A Literary Agent Tells All Sunday Nice Things: That Aged Well

Episode Stats


Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

169.59

Word count

7,817

Sentence count

432

Harmful content

Misogyny

20

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

17

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Hey y'all, Joe here, and you are listening to Under the Influence.
00:00:10.880 You know what I think is an awesome Father's Day gift?
00:00:14.340 A pre-order of Everyone is Lying to You.
00:00:18.460 I just feel like it's the book that he wants to read while ignoring his children on the
00:00:22.620 beach or at the community pool this summer.
00:00:25.360 And by him, I mean you.
00:00:27.740 So order it for him today, and you take it to the beach with you tomorrow.
00:00:32.360 You deserve it. You deserve all of the nice things.
00:00:35.900 Today's episode is actually for the dads. It is.
00:00:38.980 It's also for anyone who is tired of hearing the phrase said about men,
00:00:43.340 oh, he's just helping out, or he really helps me around the house,
00:00:48.800 anytime a man watches his own children or picks up his own socks.
00:00:54.200 Today I am joined by one of my favorite humans on the internet, Tyler Moore, better known as
00:01:01.220 AtTidyDad, for a conversation that starts with Father's Day and ends with dismantling the
00:01:08.080 patriarchy, one chore, and perhaps one skincare routine at a time. Tyler is a dad of three
00:01:17.420 daughters. He's also a teacher, a substacker, and an influencer who is making it his mission to
00:01:24.460 model a new kind of masculinity. A masculinity that includes emotional labor, vulnerability,
00:01:33.360 and also an eye cream routine. Today we are talking about all of the scripts that have to
00:01:38.840 get flipped when it comes to gender and labor in our lives. This right here is the conversation
00:01:45.680 that I wish more of us were having on Father's Day.
00:01:54.260 Tyler Moore, it is always so good to see your face.
00:01:57.620 You too.
00:01:58.280 No, thanks for having me back.
00:01:59.740 Thanks for being here.
00:02:01.160 We are talking about something
00:02:02.220 that is very near and dear to my heart today.
00:02:05.080 And it is tidy dad adjacent, but not necessarily tidy.
00:02:09.860 We are going to talk about what it will take
00:02:12.700 to flip the script on the patriarchy
00:02:14.260 and how so much of that actually is going to have to be in men's hands.
00:02:19.260 You wrote an amazing post about this on your sub stack.
00:02:22.320 And I just want to dig into it.
00:02:23.900 I mean, especially we're going to run this around Father's Day.
00:02:27.560 And I think this is something we should all be talking about this Father's Day.
00:02:31.760 I agree.
00:02:32.720 And it's funny what you just said about flipping the script
00:02:35.220 because I actually went to this summit yesterday,
00:02:38.820 which was called the Future of Fatherhood Summit
00:02:41.160 that was put on by this mom's organization.
00:02:45.960 And they were talking about how
00:02:47.480 when it comes to flipping the patriarchy
00:02:50.100 and just, I don't know, 1.00
00:02:52.060 just elevating women's issues, 0.88
00:02:54.120 the founder who founded Girls Can Code 0.93
00:02:58.200 or Girls Who Code,
00:02:59.580 I don't have it.
00:03:00.860 I've sat there all day yesterday,
00:03:02.860 so I should have it.
00:03:03.980 But she was talking about how for so long,
00:03:06.720 she was like, what do we do?
00:03:07.800 I'm fighting for moms.
00:03:08.760 I'm fighting for moms.
00:03:09.480 I'm fighting for moms.
00:03:10.180 but then she looked at her two boys and she was like oh my gosh what about the boys and then she
00:03:16.500 was like has any issue really been solved by only working on one side of the coin she was like the
00:03:24.640 entire coin is actually broken and so like when we are just focused on one side it actually doesn't
00:03:32.040 help the other side and vice versa and i thought that that was such an interesting analogy that
00:03:36.380 idea of the coin that it's like obviously women's issues paid family leave all of these things that
00:03:43.600 go into family are so important but what does it actually look like to tackle it from both sides
00:03:50.120 and there was a collective like hush across the room and then she was like let's dig into this
00:03:57.960 it was fascinating well that is fascinating and i mean frankly yes these could be so-called women's
00:04:04.840 issues, but they're also family issues. And a dad is a part of a family unit. So a lot of these
00:04:12.320 problems should also be men's to solve because they are part of the family unit, but also 0.74
00:04:17.840 women can't solve these on their own. We just can't. And we are exhausted and we shouldn't be 0.96
00:04:22.300 meant to. Exactly. And it makes me think about when I first took paid family leave in New York
00:04:28.940 State, I was not eligible with my first daughter because the law hadn't been passed. I was eligible
00:04:33.260 with my second daughter. And I was one of the first men in New York state. And this was like
00:04:39.120 pre tidy dad. So I didn't have any sort of persona. Um, but I had posted something randomly
00:04:48.220 on Facebook and this woman in our neighborhood was like, I actually work for governor Cuomo's
00:04:52.580 office. I just ran the numbers. You're one of the first men in New York state to take this because
00:04:57.820 the law went into effect January 1st and my paternity leave start or my family leave started
00:05:03.500 like January 3rd. And she was like, would you film a video for us? And I was like, great. So
00:05:11.500 they sent this whole like film crew in. I had to talk about paid family leave. They posted it on
00:05:17.940 social media. And that was my first introduction to trolls. Like before I even was deserving of
00:05:25.500 them as people think I'm not deserving. Um, but it was fascinating. The number of men who were like
00:05:32.740 women, why would you marry a man like this who wants to take leave? He should be out working 1.00
00:05:41.180 full time, regardless of the benefit that he gets, like be a man, go to work, leave your wife at home
00:05:48.220 with the children. And I was like, I just didn't, naively, I was like, I wasn't thinking about this
00:05:55.760 as a men's issue or a women's issue. I was like, isn't paid family leave something that is good
00:06:02.020 for everyone, including the child and the mother who is like at home recovering? I don't know. It
00:06:09.800 was wild. That is wild to me. And also just the reaction of these men, it floors me, okay?
00:06:18.220 And the fact that they see paid work outside the home as such the end-all be-all of achievement also makes me sad, okay?
00:06:29.920 Like that they think that that is somehow more worthy or more valuable than any work promoting a family or any work being with your children, raising children. 0.98
00:06:42.340 When we also know that most people fucking hate their jobs, okay? 0.99
00:06:44.980 Like most people, there have been numerous movies about people sitting in their goddamn cubicles and like being miserable at their corporate jobs. 0.99
00:06:54.260 And yet that is still somehow something that these men think is the end all be all of being a man. 0.99
00:07:01.480 I agree. And, you know, when I was on paid family leave, it was it's no walk in the park.
00:07:09.080 I mean, it's exhausting, but also I feel like my wife and I learned so much about one another,
00:07:16.440 how we parent, how we can trade off that then paid dividends. Like we're still on the receiving
00:07:23.060 of the dividends of that time that I was home. And it helped us negotiate like, how does one of
00:07:30.200 us work full-time? How does one of us work part-time? What does it look like to hand the
00:07:33.700 kids off to one another in the evenings. I mean, we just had an issue last week where our car broke
00:07:40.740 down. We were at our cottage in Pennsylvania and on Memorial Day weekend, we were supposed to drive
00:07:45.120 back. And that Monday, our car, the antifreeze kept completely emptying and you can't drive a car
00:07:51.500 if you don't have coolant in your car. And we had a decision to make, like who goes back with the
00:07:56.600 children? It was like the Titanic lifeboat situation that it's like, who goes with the
00:08:00.920 children, who stays behind. And so I'm a teacher. My children go to the same school where I go.
00:08:07.280 One daughter had a field trip the next day. I was expected to be at school at eight o'clock
00:08:11.640 the next morning to get my children. So last minute, I booked a bus. I took the three girls
00:08:17.660 back to New York City. My wife stayed behind with the car. And the number of people I shared about
00:08:24.380 on Instagram and the number of people who thought that I was so radical that I would possibly leave
00:08:31.760 my wife in Pennsylvania to deal with the car or the people who were like, must be nice for your
00:08:39.560 wife. Now she can have that vacation. When she was like, I'm actually dealing with a really 1.00
00:08:44.760 stressful situation here of figuring out, can I get it to a dealership? Will they fix it? How am
00:08:49.520 I going to negotiate with these men? Because men in the auto shops are notorious for upping the 0.99
00:08:55.000 prices for the women, you know, who are trying to get there. It just, there were so many layers
00:09:03.300 to this. And even the, you're a man, how dare you leave your wife to fend for herself alone.
00:09:11.080 But I sent my wife a text. I was on the bus with the three girls. And I was like,
00:09:16.360 I'm just so glad that we're both capable. Like this was before any of the online noise. I was
00:09:22.680 like, can we just both take a moment and say that we are both capable of caring for our children,
00:09:29.640 dealing with emergencies that come up, figuring out what's the best problem, what's the best way
00:09:35.460 to solve the problem for our family. And just moving on without thinking of, well, what would
00:09:42.840 the man do in this situation versus what would the female do? And what are we going to do with
00:09:48.200 the children? Can a dad really take his children on a bus across state lines back to New York City?
00:09:55.240 And it ended up, my wife was alone for like four days because in Pennsylvania, in the Poconos,
00:10:01.040 things move at a snail's pace. So there's no urgency to get the car part. But I was perfectly
00:10:07.540 fine with my children for four days and got them to school and got them home from school,
00:10:13.280 cooked them dinner, got them to bed, got the homework done. Because sometimes it goes back to
00:10:19.400 that paid family leave time. We figured out how do we make this work together? And so I think that
00:10:27.040 that's when that policy, it has such a huge impact on families that it lasts far beyond
00:10:32.580 your children growing out of diapers. Far beyond. And I love what you said, too. It's
00:10:37.740 this somehow human need that we have to ascribe everything to a gender. It's like, oh,
00:10:46.400 men deal with car. Women deal with children. It's just so prehistoric to me and crazy. 1.00
00:10:54.540 The other day when I was talking about what dads do and what moms do with a friend,
00:11:01.420 And one of my friends who was in a same sex marriage just starts laughing. And she's like,
00:11:09.140 we just do all the things. There's no thought to like, oh, this is yours because of this. It's just
00:11:17.940 that we're all doing all of the stuff. And like you said to your wife, thank God we're just
00:11:22.260 both capable human beings, right? Exactly. And growing up when I was in
00:11:28.640 early high school, my parents divorced. And so in some ways, similar to what you were talking
00:11:33.500 about with the same sex couple, my parents were now both single parents dealing with house and
00:11:40.360 home and outside work and, you know, co-parenting and dealing with me, my sisters. You know, I saw
00:11:51.160 them take on all of the work and there was no question of, oh, dad's house is run one way because
00:11:57.960 he's a man. So of course, it's going to be messy. We're never going to have healthy meals. He's
00:12:04.380 never going to get us to school on time. He's never going to wash our clothes. But oh, when we go to
00:12:09.200 mom's house, everything is going to be perfectly put together. And the cookies are waiting for us
00:12:13.400 and our clothes are always going to be clean. And we don't have to lift a finger. Like, that was not
00:12:17.940 reality. My parents had to figure it out. And so I think that that's where some of my,
00:12:22.960 I don't know my philosophy on what is assigned to one gender or not I'm just like I don't
00:12:32.160 understand how these arbitrary definitions of what's masculine what's feminine how it actually
00:12:37.360 helps I don't think anyone I don't think I mean I think it served a very highly specific subset of
00:12:45.640 men in the past, say, 100 years who did have this corporate job and could not have done
00:12:52.920 their big job and could not have gone and had their country club and golf outings and 0.71
00:12:56.960 their three martini lunches unless they had a woman at home managing the household and 0.98
00:13:03.020 raising their children. 0.99
00:13:05.180 And those are the only people that it served.
00:13:07.860 Exactly.
00:13:08.280 And then I just think that whether they recognize it or not, it's like, what was the actual cost? What were those men actually giving up? Because I can't, you know, it's relationships with their children, their relationship to self.
00:13:26.300 Um, I mean, we just had the study come out that was about women's mental health and the
00:13:33.500 impact of motherhood, but there are also all of those studies on masculinity, boys, what's
00:13:39.840 happening with this anxious generation.
00:13:42.760 And I do think that, you know, I can't help, but think of these like 1950s, 1960s men,
00:13:49.260 even thinking about my grandpa, like the relationship that he had with my mom and with
00:13:55.000 her siblings, even thinking about my dad. My dad was a teacher growing up and his dad,
00:14:00.780 when he decided to become a teacher, told him, basically said, why in the world would you choose
00:14:06.000 a woman's profession? Like, why are you doing a woman's job? So my dad was like, fine, I'm going 0.88
00:14:12.120 to quit. He quit college for a day, went and got a factory job, worked in the factory for about two
00:14:18.200 hours and was like, I'm not doing this. And then he re-enrolled in school, became a teacher,
00:14:25.280 went on to become a principal. He won in the state of Kentucky, this principal of the year award.
00:14:32.700 And I was running a couple of weeks ago. And I know that Will Smith is very controversial.
00:14:39.500 I don't know if he's still controversial, but- I don't know. I have no idea who's controversial
00:14:42.820 anymore. I don't know. No clue. But it really goes to Viola Davis and Viola Davis is not
00:14:46.660 controversial, but she was talking about how she was at a party with Will Smith. Yes. And
00:14:51.320 Will Smith came up to her and was basically like, you know, which part of your childhood are you
00:14:57.520 fighting for? That basically, you know, there's some aspect of our childhood that in adulthood,
00:15:03.840 we are like still fighting for that, be it that little six-year-old kid, that eight-year-old
00:15:10.280 feeling of insecurity, whatever it may be. And I had to stop myself because, and I wrote in a note
00:15:15.720 in my phone. And I was like, am I actually still fighting for my dad? Because back in the eighties,
00:15:25.260 when he became a teacher, he was always what we would call an involved dad. He was everywhere.
00:15:30.580 I saw my dad cry. My dad would talk to me about things. He still is that relational,
00:15:36.660 emotional support, but he's always been called feminine, that there are aspects of him that are
00:15:42.360 And I'm like, am I still in 2025, am I somehow fighting for this little boy, myself I'm talking
00:15:50.980 about here, that was so proud of his dad. I loved my dad being a teacher when I was a kid. I loved
00:15:55.900 that he made me breakfast every morning. I loved that he was off in the summers. I loved when he
00:16:00.080 was a principal and he would let my sisters and I run around the school and we would get into all
00:16:04.160 sorts of mischief and trouble. But I loved who he was as a dad and still is. And I'm like, am I
00:16:09.940 somehow now 2025 Tyler fighting for these causes to somehow honor my dad and say the struggles
00:16:19.720 that you went through even with your own dad making fun of you that it was somehow worth it
00:16:25.860 because he did change the narrative for what I saw as dads and it has informed who I am and how
00:16:33.160 I relate to my daughters so that was that's a lot of therapy work for you on that run
00:16:38.580 a lot going on through through viola davis viola davis and will smith and i think the answer the
00:16:46.700 short answer is yes um absolutely you i think you are still doing that work and you're doing it
00:16:52.340 really well because you have a platform you have a big platform on social media you have a big
00:16:56.120 platform on substack and you're you're putting these things out there for people to think about
00:17:02.160 for people to ruminate about i want to take a quick break and when we get back i want to talk
00:17:07.100 I want to talk a little bit about what you put out on your Substack about how we can change this
00:17:12.160 narrative. Okay, we are back. First off, tell the audience where they can find you on Substack so
00:17:24.920 they can follow all of your great stuff. Yeah. So on Substack, I'm also Tidy Dad,
00:17:29.520 but I have this publication called The Tidy Times. And what I'm trying to do is obviously
00:17:35.820 still give the tidying, organizing, sort of cleaning tips, but it's also, what is this
00:17:41.780 deeper message beneath this idea of tidying? Because tidying is this idea of bringing order
00:17:48.040 to things, but I still have this mental clutter that I feel like just envelops me from time to
00:17:56.060 time. And it's like, how do I actually make sense of this idea of self and how I relate to others?
00:18:03.080 and especially what is my role as a dad to three little girls who are watching everything that I do.
00:18:10.500 Oh my God, they watch everything. They watch everything and they take it all in.
00:18:14.340 And so how do I somehow change things for them? Because I know that in a few short years,
00:18:19.840 they're going to be out in the world and there are things that they're going to see as normal
00:18:24.240 because they saw it at home. There are other things that people are going to start to question
00:18:28.600 or question, why was your family that way? Why did your dad
00:18:33.080 do those things. But I'm trying to let them know that all families look different, that
00:18:40.920 there shouldn't be expectations placed on them just because they are girls. There's nothing
00:18:46.840 that drives me nuts more than just the work that is placed on people simply because 0.98
00:18:54.240 of their gender, just because they're a woman. And this idea that they need to be the ones who 0.99
00:19:00.240 are scrubbing the toilets because women scrub the toilets. I do not scrub the toilets in my house. 1.00
00:19:08.540 My wife doesn't either. She's capable. Totally. Good. Good. Don't do it. No. No. But could. Yes, 1.00
00:19:17.380 exactly. Yeah. So yes, talk to me about some of these things, some of these things on this list
00:19:23.120 that you wrote down. Yeah. So I wrote this subsec about 10 things that I'm normalizing for the sake
00:19:29.200 of myself and my daughters. And there are things that I was just sort of doing on social media and
00:19:35.800 in my life that I didn't really recognize. I don't know that it's resonated with people or just
00:19:41.980 triggered conversation. So one is like skincare. So when I wake up in the morning, I always put
00:19:49.940 on these like gold under eye patches or one with snail serum. And the number of women who just 1.00
00:19:56.560 started saying either, Hey, it's actually nice to see you wearing those. Or would you recommend 0.99
00:20:02.560 those for my husband? Or would you recommend those for me? I had this little like eye stick
00:20:07.820 that I was putting underneath my eyes because everyone of a certain age, we like now wake up
00:20:13.440 with wrinkle creases on our face. Oh my God, we so do. Also, can I tell you,
00:20:17.940 cause I'm looking at you right now, you look great. And I want to know, will you send me
00:20:21.600 a link to the ones that you're using because I could use them too. I will. But it's like,
00:20:26.880 I didn't know that skincare was something that caused sort of this ruckus and storm. 0.72
00:20:34.720 You know, trad wives are always on the mind lately. I wore pink gloves to clean because 0.99
00:20:40.740 newsflash, most stores only sell pink gloves. And I had this big campaign that the brand needed to
00:20:47.860 send me gloves. They sent me medium, which did not fit my hands. And I was like, I really need
00:20:53.140 an extra large. They struggled to find them. They then found some that would fit my hands,
00:20:58.140 but that sort of set off this firestorm. But then it related to this idea of cleaning that I'm like,
00:21:04.900 how it's so wild that in 2025, you know, it still comes across as controversial to see a man
00:21:12.600 scrubbing the house and still this conversation around, because I get this comment all the time.
00:21:19.800 It's so nice that you're helping your wife. It's so nice that you're helping out around the house.
00:21:26.900 And I'm like, even those phrases, it is time to move beyond this because even implying that I am
00:21:33.280 helping somehow means that it is like not my responsibility or I shouldn't shoulder any of
00:21:39.780 the burdens that come with it. And so this idea of helping, I'm like, no, like, it's my
00:21:46.940 responsibility. And there are things that my wife does the things that I do, there are things that
00:21:50.780 my children do. But that it just pushes this like larger narrative, which is fascinating.
00:21:59.640 It is, I've tried to stop using the word help, especially in front of the kids where I'm like,
00:22:04.100 oh, can you help me clean up this thing? Or can you help me do this? Because it's also
00:22:10.020 my husband's responsibility. It's his house as well.
00:22:14.980 And even the question of, can you help me? It invites a yes or no. That I feel like with our
00:22:21.520 children, it's like, I need you too. Or bring this over. Or in our house, we're working on
00:22:29.580 clearing the table until it's completely clear because what we're currently battling is this
00:22:36.560 well it's not mine like same you know and I'm like you know I was also in a room yesterday
00:22:44.680 with Dr. Becky you know who's like our new like parenting whisperer and I don't sometimes I'm like
00:22:50.220 I don't care I don't care that it's not yours like it's not all mine either oh that's what I
00:22:56.660 say all the time like we work together until it's done and it can either take a long time
00:23:01.660 or it can take a little bit of time like you choose whether you want to fight or not like
00:23:05.300 i'm still gonna win um my response is always it's your house too and also do you see me clean up
00:23:13.960 your thing sometimes if you see something do something correct because there is this like
00:23:21.880 with-it-ness that I do think there's this stereotype that's placed on men and dads of
00:23:28.580 lacking this with-it-ness. But as a teacher of both boys and girls, you know, with-it-ness is
00:23:36.900 not something that comes naturally to many people. I always have that like one helpful favorite
00:23:42.740 student who is just naturally like, what else do you want, Mr. Moore? But it is something that we
00:23:49.160 have to instill. And I try to, even in the classroom, be very, I don't ask the girls to 0.94
00:23:54.980 just sweep up that it's like, boys have to pick up too. I expect boys and girls to have a neat
00:24:00.740 and tidy desk to care for their things. Like there are little lessons that are taught, but again,
00:24:06.200 this is still sort of pushing back on that narrative that we're still fed in 2025.
00:24:12.960 five yeah it's i mean it really is amazing uh what did dr becky have to say about all of this
00:24:24.040 my i think you know i i can i can leave a lot of the things dr becky says because it's a little
00:24:28.140 too gentle parenting for me and i like to say i'm like i would gentle parent if i had gentle kids
00:24:32.180 but i don't i've got yeah i've got some feral kids who like if i if i'm like oh my gosh like
00:24:37.340 tell me how you feel about that they'll like laugh in my face what was cool was you know I've read
00:24:43.560 her book but I'd never seen her speak in person and she's actually very like quietly dynamic
00:24:50.380 in person but I feel like the biggest thing to me my takeaway from yesterday was her idea of
00:24:58.120 repair and this idea that no one gets it right all of the time and even when we were talking
00:25:03.400 about just this, like, you can either do it now and it can be a fight or it won't be a fight.
00:25:08.400 There are times when I lose it on my children, you know, the end of last week, it's like my wife
00:25:15.500 had come back in. We were about to host her sister. I had been at school all week. It has been busy
00:25:20.760 with like field trips and, and I was exhausted. And I had this moment where no one was picking
00:25:26.500 up in the house and it was the classic, like, fine, I will do it all myself. I started throwing
00:25:31.740 stuff to the different corners. It's like, everybody just go to bed. I just had this
00:25:35.820 explosion of being exhausted. But then going back to Dr. Becky, her power of repair,
00:25:45.720 like I felt really bad at the end of the night. And I was like, what model did I just show to my
00:25:49.940 girls? I just showed them once again, that men just have this feeling of being angry. Like that's
00:25:56.020 what it's like, that is the feeling that dads have and men have. It's like, we know that they're
00:26:00.260 angry or they're just like completely passive and sort of go with the flow and don't care
00:26:04.360 and the next morning I was like girls we got to have a family meeting it was like over breakfast
00:26:10.260 and I was like raise your hand if you've ever like acted really bad like not even bad you really
00:26:18.300 acted out of character you were like yelling and screaming or you threw a little temper tantrum or
00:26:21.900 a little hissy fit and the girls were like yeah and I was like yeah that's what happened to me
00:26:28.280 yesterday. And I'm really sorry. Like, I was exhausted. And hearing her yesterday, I was like,
00:26:35.800 that's actually how we start to change the narrative of dads and men and masculinity is
00:26:43.660 when we can just take accountability and be a little bit vulnerable and admit that we do not
00:26:50.080 have our stuff together, because no one has it together. But I don't think that men,
00:26:56.000 I think that men sort of hold it all together and act as if they aren't multifaceted and
00:27:03.060 nuanced and layered in their emotions. But look at where that's gotten us. Like we have
00:27:09.620 right now Trump and Elon Musk having little hissy fits at one another, but yet women are too
00:27:19.640 emotional to lead we're too emotional to lead we really are oh my god all right let's take a quick
00:27:28.440 break let's take a quick break and then we're and then we're gonna we're gonna then we're gonna fix
00:27:32.020 this situation once and for all we're gonna fix the narrative around gender in this country
00:27:38.280 okay we are back i can't even think about this elon musk trump thing without just cracking up
00:27:54.420 because the fact that it is even playing out in the public sphere the way that it is
00:28:00.760 A woman would, a female leader would never, because we have been trained to know that we're being watched and judged about every single thing we do, and we are careful as hell.
00:28:15.440 Mm hmm. And, you know, with what we're seeing, it's like, what are the actual consequences for this behavior? Because I don't think that men often hold other men accountable for actions in the same way that women hold women accountable or even men try to hold women accountable. 0.94
00:28:34.560 Like it is, it's very strange. And I obviously can't get into Trump's mind at all. But I can't
00:28:44.520 help it. It's like, is there this little boy inside of Trump who's like, but Elon, I thought
00:28:50.860 that we were like pals. I thought that you like liked hanging out with me and liked my ideas.
00:28:55.720 But then you like turned on me. And now you're taking the secrets that I told you on the
00:28:59.820 playground. And like, you're using them against me on the little social media platform that you
00:29:04.900 own. But like, I have a social media platform that I own too. And it's just like, this is classic,
00:29:11.240 like, in some ways, little kid playground stuff. But yet, I don't know, it's playing out on this
00:29:20.920 national stage, and it is just wild. Just wild to me. Okay, just like absolutely crazy bananas to me.
00:29:32.120 But alas, I mean, by the time this episode airs, it all may have changed. They may be besties again.
00:29:37.500 It's also mercurial. We have no idea what is going to happen next. I want to keep going through a
00:29:44.300 little bit more of your list about how we change this narrative. What are some other things that
00:29:49.020 men should be focusing on. So one thing that I, I mean, I've been open with my daughters right now
00:29:55.860 about this idea of like body and image and self, you know, how I talk about my body, my physical
00:30:04.600 appearance, even my like diet, you know, after, and it's one of the things that I've loved reading
00:30:10.900 about your own sub stack is that it's interesting because I feel like there are parallels to our
00:30:16.460 journeys, that I came out of a super intense book launch season, and you're ramping up for a really
00:30:24.700 intense book launch season, which is going to take the summer by storm. It's going to be wonderful.
00:30:31.240 Thank you. We should tell everyone our news. We should tell everyone the big news right here,
00:30:35.160 right now. I'm so excited. Yes, because on July 15th, it's the ultimate Trad Wives takedown that
00:30:41.100 you it's the ultimate person to take down trad wives as a little tidy dad but we're going to be 0.90
00:30:46.480 doing a book event together at the strand which is going to be it's going to be magical so great
00:30:50.600 yeah thank you so much for for being my conversation partner and yes we're going to
00:30:55.360 be judging the trad with the trad wife costume contest and oh my gosh it will be bring your own
00:31:00.900 pie everyone is going to eat a lot of pie and it's just going to be a bananas fun night and
00:31:05.580 because i do think that in some ways you are public enemy number one to trad wives because 1.00
00:31:10.380 you are breaking down all of these stereotypes that their livelihood depends on. 1.00
00:31:15.880 And it is a livelihood that, as you and I both know, it's carefully curated and cultivated.
00:31:23.980 And there's so much work that goes behind putting together this picture-perfect life.
00:31:31.780 I mean, I tried to keep a sourdough starter alive pre-children, and there was no way that
00:31:38.740 I could keep it alive.
00:31:40.020 I made like two loaves, not to mention, you know, having seven children plus raising chickens, plus just pressing these like beautiful dresses, not to mention you have to hand sew the dress, you know, and make your own fabric like it's all just too much.
00:31:56.940 It's just not realistic. And so, yes, I'm so excited to dive into it together because there's nothing like a man who just threatens all of these narratives that even, you know, I was talking just a minute ago about body and self, because I'm like, I want my daughters to see me exercising at the playground.
00:32:20.120 And it was a little thing. Like I've been taking my like exercise bands and doing my core workouts
00:32:25.140 because I hired this personal trainer because I just felt so bad about myself. And especially
00:32:32.120 after the book launch, like I was just sitting all of the time. There's so much sitting involved
00:32:37.120 in writing. There's so much sitting involved in writing. I mean, just so much. I just needed
00:32:42.620 help. And so I had this trainer that I've been working with virtually, but I remember my daughters,
00:32:47.680 they came up and they were like, Daddy, no other parents are working out at the playground.
00:32:53.020 And I was like, well, that kind of stinks for them. I'm like, you're playing and moving your
00:32:57.200 body. Why can't I play and move my body? We had all these ice creams in the freezer because I
00:33:04.760 used to have all of my secret stashes of snacks at night. And they were like, Daddy, do you not
00:33:11.540 like sweets anymore? And I was like, no, actually, I really do love sweets. I was like, but the more
00:33:17.180 I thought about it, it just didn't make me feel that great, like after I would eat them. So now
00:33:21.440 I really like my like, Greek yogurt and protein. And it's pretty yummy. And I'm going to put it
00:33:25.960 into like Ninja Creamy over the summertime. And it'll sort of taste like ice cream.
00:33:31.920 You know, talking about clothes, there are just so many messages that I feel like little girls
00:33:36.780 and women are fed. And as I put in the piece, dad bods are celebrated. They are totally acceptable.
00:33:45.700 but yet as we've talked about there are you know it looks like men are expecting
00:33:52.920 baby that it's like seven months nine months how many how many dad bods like the old school dad
00:34:00.220 bods right like they they physically look pregnant at like and not just pregnant but like but they
00:34:05.560 are gonna pop this baby out any second like their water is about to break any minute meanwhile i had
00:34:10.400 the tiniest little tummy like pooch after having my kids and people are constantly like are you
00:34:16.060 pregnant are you pregnant are you pregnant so there are it's what is socially acceptable for 0.99
00:34:21.080 men versus women and even the you know that you can have this very overweight man but the wife
00:34:28.040 has to be like skinny and put together i didn't put this in the piece but i was thinking about
00:34:32.300 george clooney right now there's all in the news about him dying his hair for that broadway play
00:34:38.280 that he's in all the headlines about how old he looks, how it ages him. And I'm like, but yet
00:34:44.680 women at the first sign of gray, there's immediately the question of, Oh, you're going to let it go 0.79
00:34:51.420 natural. You're not going to start. You're not going to start dying that you're, you're not 1.00
00:34:56.160 going to get the touch up. You're not going to put chemicals in your hair for the next like 40
00:35:00.320 years until you decide, you know, to completely cut it off and go natural gray. I just think that
00:35:06.440 it is wild. Um, and it's little subtle things that I'm like, wow, can I start to push this
00:35:16.560 narrative for my daughters and how I talk about myself and my body because they're fed so many
00:35:23.060 things, but can I step in and like, talk about this in a healthy way? So it's been interesting.
00:35:30.520 It's interesting. And also, you know, taking care of yourself. I mean, I think just showing,
00:35:34.320 taking care of yourself respecting your body and both parents doing that equally and nick and i
00:35:42.700 try to work out together uh we do like a workout class a couple times a week at noon and today my
00:35:49.780 son was off school so he came to meet us for lunch afterwards i think i like that he sees us do these
00:35:54.600 things together i like that he sees us getting healthy together and you know both of us just
00:35:59.760 respecting our bodies um you know in a really great way and i don't think any of that has to
00:36:05.840 be gender-based and it doesn't and also caring about your appearance is not gender-based i just
00:36:11.360 did a whole episode that'll probably come out after this one talking about being on the weight
00:36:17.320 loss drugs with another friend who was on them and we're just really honest about it and for so long
00:36:22.440 people were calling women that were doing it vain. And I'm like, I just want to feel and look
00:36:29.560 my best self. Okay. Like this is not about being a size, whatever. I'm like, I don't care. I want
00:36:35.200 to fit into my old clothes and I want to feel confident. And like no man has ever been judged
00:36:39.560 for that. No. And it's funny because I'm writing a piece next week that it's called, I put an
00:36:47.880 ozempic knockoff in my cart because I did, I was, I was getting fed all of these targeted ads from
00:36:54.700 hymns. Oh yeah. My husband's been targeted those things from hymns right now too. He's like,
00:36:58.780 should I go on this? And I'm like, yeah, sure. If you want. So I was like, you know, I put it all
00:37:03.840 in my cart. I had done it sort of secretly for weeks. And then my wife was like, what are you
00:37:10.160 doing? Um, and then my dad called me and he was, he told me that he had just been diagnosed with
00:37:16.840 Parkinson's. And that's actually what prompted my whole health journey that immediately I shifted
00:37:24.580 from, do I take weight loss drugs to, oh my goodness, my dad now has this degenerative
00:37:31.880 condition that is completely going to wreck his body. But yet I heard from my dad that he was
00:37:40.920 like, and he was like, yeah, the doctor's like, I don't need to get on medication right now.
00:37:45.860 there are all of these other things that I can do. I'm going to try boxing. I'm going to go to
00:37:49.640 a PT. I'm going to see what are some of these other remedies that I can sort of take. He was
00:37:55.160 like, because I think that if I can get stronger, that that will help with the Parkinson's. And
00:38:01.540 I was like, oh my goodness, what a, it's when I just came back to health is such a precious
00:38:09.120 gift that we have that is so fleeting. But yet I was like, if my dad can get out there and take
00:38:15.840 the boxing classes and bravely confront Parkinson's, I can also take on some of these
00:38:23.940 other issues that I'm battling because I realized that for me, it was just routines off. I was
00:38:30.040 making really bad choices. I've realized that I was emotionally binge eating. I sort of wrestled
00:38:38.920 with that. And it's not to say that weight loss drugs are good or bad. I think it's such an
00:38:44.900 individual sort of battle. But what I don't hear is a lot of men talking about the battle,
00:38:52.480 talking about how do they feel when they look in the mirror? How do they feel when they're
00:38:56.880 out playing with their kids? What does it feel like to know consciously that you're about to
00:39:02.360 go in for your physical and your doctor is going to say again, you've gained 10 pounds since last
00:39:07.860 summer or since the last visit. You're now, you know, borderline at risk for your heart pressure,
00:39:14.700 for your blood pressure, heart disease, whatever it may be. I just think men often avoid going to
00:39:20.300 the doctor because they don't want anyone to tell them anything. And I don't know, I just resolved
00:39:25.960 not to, I couldn't do this. I hear you. And I'm so proud of you for doing this and for talking
00:39:33.060 about it in an open way, because I just, I also think so many men just don't have the outlet to
00:39:37.720 talk about it. They don't hear other men talk about it. And so they're not socialized for it.
00:39:41.720 Okay. No. And even, you know, it was funny because there's this whole, like, what do I do
00:39:48.300 with the before and after photos that I didn't send them to my family. I only sent them to them
00:39:54.060 like three weeks ago. And they were like, I was like, I started with, this is really embarrassing,
00:40:00.200 but I'm about to show you my before and after pictures. And I sent them. And then my sweet mom
00:40:07.120 was like I don't think you should be embarrassed I think you should be proud like look at what
00:40:12.040 you've done and I was like oh thanks mom and I was I was like proud of myself but it's a journey
00:40:19.380 that I did not take followers on on social media because I don't know I I didn't for one I didn't
00:40:28.880 know if I could do it two it felt like especially after writing the book everything had been so
00:40:34.740 personal. I think, you know, that it's like you put everything into this book and it's this one
00:40:39.200 way relationship. Like you are, you can identify with so many of the, your characters and just the
00:40:46.800 struggle to get all of those ideas out. It's so much vulnerability, but you never get vulnerability
00:40:52.640 back from the reader. And so it feels like you have completely depleted something. It's almost
00:40:58.360 like giving birth to a
00:41:00.420 child, but the child like never
00:41:02.280 comes to visit you. Like it's just
00:41:03.860 out there and you don't know
00:41:06.460 do people like it? Are they going to
00:41:08.380 receive it? So this
00:41:10.460 I was like I need to
00:41:12.400 keep to myself, but then now I'm emboldened
00:41:14.780 to share 1.00
00:41:16.020 because so many women share their struggles
00:41:18.320 but so many men
00:41:19.980 do not.
00:41:24.600 We have so much
00:41:26.420 work to do, Tyler, but we're doing it.
00:41:28.360 We're just doing the work and we're going to do the work at the strand on July 15th where we host the book event for the book that the internet cannot stop talking about.
00:41:40.020 They really can't.
00:41:40.980 I mean, I'm not just like inflating your balloon or whatever.
00:41:46.380 I love a balloon.
00:41:47.220 Inflate my balloon.
00:41:47.920 But I just feel like it's the perfect book that's coming out because there are so many, like when you started it, it was a completely different sort of, I don't know, just social, it's just the perfect time for it to come out because everyone is starting to fight one another.
00:42:07.280 Everyone is questioning all of these big, larger issues.
00:42:11.900 But as I've shared with anyone that I will talk to about your book, you somehow single-handedly poke a little fun, address some of the stereotypes around trad wives influencing while also validating the business women that these people are,
00:42:34.780 and men, because there is a dead influencer in the mix, you know, while you just can't help but
00:42:41.340 get to the end and root for all of these characters, even though someone does die, but
00:42:47.740 someone does die. Look, there's also a body. Okay. And that's fine. We need a body. Everyone
00:42:51.980 wants a body in a summer read. Okay. But it is, but it's so good. And I think that,
00:42:56.580 I don't know. I think it's going to be so interesting to people and it's going to open
00:43:02.120 the door someday for i mean i don't want to have a dad influencer murder someone because we have
00:43:09.660 enough bad we have enough bad bad men out there no but there are so many spinoffs and then when
00:43:15.800 it gets adopted when it gets put into this like multi-part series there are so many you're having
00:43:22.860 a cameo you're gonna be right i i have to be you have to be you don't have a choice yes and then
00:43:29.240 i'm like oh my gosh like we could cast i mean there's so many great people but even now because
00:43:34.980 i just got my tickets for bravo con which that would be a whole other episode oh my god when is
00:43:39.580 that should i come to that with you well it's the tickets are gone oh really they sold out in an
00:43:46.940 hour oh my gosh it's been years so it's in las vegas it's in november but i set my i set my phone
00:43:53.500 and they texted why Andy Cohen did this two minutes before 12 yesterday they were like
00:44:00.180 tickets are going to go on sale today a day early and so I snagged my tickets and I went but there's
00:44:04.980 so many you know all right you're gonna be my correspondent on the ground there then
00:44:09.560 yes but you know even that I'm like you know a dad who yes I enjoy a little bit of the bravo verse
00:44:17.980 All this to say, as we've discussed, there are so many subtle ways that we can push back against the patriarchy. And it just takes a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of willingness to say that you don't have it all together.
00:44:35.560 a willingness to show how you're doing work inside of the house, how you're doing work
00:44:42.220 outside of the house, being vulnerable with your kids, with your colleagues, even just saying to
00:44:47.000 your boss at work, it's been really hard right now, balancing work and family and this feeling
00:44:52.920 of self. I feel like the more that we talk about these things, that's when we actually break
00:44:58.200 through some of the noise. You're amazing. Tell everyone where they can find you on the internet.
00:45:03.640 Yes. So on Instagram, I'm Tidy Dad. On Substack, I'm at Tidy Dad and the Tidy Times. I also have
00:45:11.080 a website, thetidydad.com. And then my book, Tidy Up Your Life. So just Google Tidy and you'll see
00:45:18.740 Marie Kondo and then me. And you're better. You're better. I could just say it. Thank you for being
00:45:24.580 on today, Tyler. You're the best. Thanks for having me. Thanks.
00:45:33.640 Thank you.
00:46:03.640 You