00:07:32.280I mean, look, I do not think that you are wrong per se.
00:07:39.740But she also, she did not choose to make this the biggest talking point from the book.
00:07:47.040It was the Wall Street Journal that decided this was the headline from their interview, from their profile of her.
00:07:54.900They are the ones that truly put this out there.
00:07:58.380Their headline was the Kardashian whisperer who says three hours with her kids is enough.
00:08:03.080She gave an entire interview to them that this was not the focus, and that's what they chose to focus on.
00:08:10.380I do not think they would have focused on that for a male executive.
00:08:13.480It's that she did not release this in like a press release.
00:08:18.080Cool. You may be right about that, but I'm sure she's got a lot of angles and there may have been a lot of things she was going for.
00:08:24.220And this is the one that they took the bait on, knowing maybe it was a combination of the writer or the editor at the journal, knowing this would go viral.
00:08:34.320Maybe it was a subconscious thing that they thought this actually mattered.
00:08:37.200but regardless she's obviously milking it now and that's all this is about i think i don't i
00:08:46.260disagree with you so i'm throwing out there that i well i don't completely disagree with you i think
00:08:50.500she's milking it and again we all milk all the things we are all trying to sell books however
00:08:55.560we can it is not easy out there i mean i'm trying to think of what viral things i can do about joe
00:09:02.880van gogh i'm considering actually making joe van gogh plaques with information about joe and putting
00:09:08.880it under van gogh paintings in museums do you think i'd get arrested you know it's a tough one
00:09:14.340to pull off you gotta have you gotta create a distraction you know it's not a terrible idea
00:09:19.620okay i'm just i'm i'm throwing that one out there anyway i don't blame her for for milking this but
00:09:26.680she's not really she had to defend herself like she's been attacked for this like this has not
00:09:30.180been a good time for her. So I really I do want to say that. And I think you're right. This is
00:09:35.460publicity for the book. And she is also definitely being attacked for this thing. And that's what I0.90
00:09:41.040want to focus on her being attacked for for this thing. My number one comment here is that she's1.00
00:09:47.980very, very rich. OK, so she gets to choose to do this with her kids. The majority of people,1.00
00:09:53.480the vast majority of people do not have childcare on weekends. And we are 48-hour parents on
00:10:01.080weekends because there's not affordable childcare available to us on weekends. That is the first
00:10:06.140big point here. She has so much money that she has so many options and agency of how she wants1.00
00:10:13.000to spend her weekend days. Totally. I think I want to talk about how much time we spend with1.00
00:10:19.480our kids on weekends. And I'm curious, I got a lot of comments on the newsletter that I posted
00:10:25.380about this, where a lot of moms were like, well, three hours of intentional time. So three hours
00:10:31.840of like one-on-one time with the kids feels more productive than three hours of, you know,
00:10:39.340kind of ignoring your kids and being on the phone or, you know, driving them around to 19 different
00:10:44.720sports activities on a weekend. We spend with our kids on weekends. Again, we're like pretty
00:10:51.260much 48 hour parents on most weekends, unless we can get my mom in for a couple of hours or
00:10:56.960arrange a play date. Like we're pretty much with them constantly on weekends, right? Or at least
00:11:01.180one of us is. Yeah, it's true. I mean, for that matter, we're spending pretty much most of the
00:11:07.500afternoon with them after three o'clock as well. I mean, there's a little bit of downtime, you know,
00:11:13.300here and there but uh well it's certainly not more than three hours i think that's more realistic
00:11:18.300for pretty much everybody else out there who doesn't have live-in child yeah no agreed and
00:11:22.740well i will say because we did have live-in child care for a while we worked with an au pair for a
00:11:27.860really long time we we had au pairs living in our house uh for how long six years i mean until
00:11:35.400until until the fall on and off yeah yeah six years uh which meant we could schedule child
00:11:41.280care on weekends if we cut cut corners with child care with them because they can only work 45 hours
00:11:47.280a week um if we cut um corners midweek then we could have like a whole weekend day off so i've
00:11:56.280got to say look it's a privilege right it's a it's a massive privilege to be able to do that again
00:12:02.640i think that like three hours of concentrated really like focused time that's pretty great
00:12:10.860pretty helpful. But also most parents don't have the army of people like chefs and housekeepers
00:12:16.660cleaning up their houses. So on weekends, we're doing mountains and mountains and piles of
00:12:21.500laundry. I mean, we've got laundry up here that has literal mountains, literal. Like,
00:12:26.640how do we have so much laundry in this house for five people? I don't know, but I got to do it
00:12:30.520again today. You do actually have to do it again today. It's like it's there is a pile of laundry
00:12:35.500actually behind me. And so, I mean, that is that's our division of labor is that Nick does
00:12:40.160the laundry he takes it up and down the stairs and puts it in the in the machine and then i put
00:12:45.620the laundry away yep it's true um so anyway i mean that's how it gets that's how it is around
00:12:54.200here and it's not and it's not so bad i mean it can be a grind from time to time and thankfully
00:12:59.080we do have some help particularly from your mother um who can come and give us a little bit
00:13:03.620of a break from time to time the kids are terrific to spend heaps of time with but uh as everybody
00:13:08.760knows uh it does get there's a certain fatigue that can set in at a certain point you do need
00:13:13.820you need your personal time totally totally uh well let's take a quick break and when we get
00:13:19.460back i do want to talk about that burnout like parent burnout because i think that that is very
00:13:24.500very real okay we are back i'm gonna say something and this is very true for me i don't know if it's
00:13:38.340true for Nick, but I'm a better parent when I have breaks. Like I, if I spend like a solid two
00:13:45.380hours with the kids, if then I get a break, then I come back better, but I get burnt out very
00:13:51.420quickly. I would not be an amazing, you know, full time, always, always on mother. I'm also
00:13:59.540not a play with my kids, mom. I've said this before. Like they're like, get down on the floor
00:14:03.780and play imaginary cafe with me i hate doing that okay and maybe that's controversial but i do i do
00:14:09.980not like playing cafe and i think it's only gotten worse because in the bluey episodes bandit is
00:14:16.020constantly playing these games with the kids and so they they want me to be bandit from bluey is
00:14:21.420what they want all right nick you're a little bit you're a little bit better at it but when it comes
00:14:26.640to those imaginary games i'd rather they do it with each other well you know uh sometimes they do
00:14:32.680which is which is always fun when they do uh i i bluey it's amazing sometimes i wonder if uh
00:14:38.920they emulate bluey or if bluey really is just an incredibly accurate depiction of
00:14:43.560as good as it gets bluey is as good as it gets when it comes to kids tv i truly i truly believe
00:14:52.700that i think they just emulate how kids actually are and how parents actually are but they i mean
00:14:58.000they do take they're like let's play cafe and i'm like that's definitely a bluey thing
00:15:02.200Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of it's been inspired in that direction. But yeah, you know, I mean,0.99
00:15:08.060you know, I guess at the end of the day is, you know, not to dwell on the initial part of the
00:15:15.080conversation, but you do as good as you can. And most people simply don't have heaps of resources.
00:15:21.780You know, you spend as much time as you can without going crazy. And at the end of the day,
00:15:25.860that's the more honest answer it's true it's true we're all kind of piecing it together we don't see
00:15:33.560that from influencers and celebrities but we also with influencers and celebrities unlike greed they
00:15:39.760do not admit how much help they have like i do appreciate her being like i've got a ton of nannies
00:15:44.440and housekeepers and people that make this work most celebrities are like i do it all myself and
00:15:49.880most influencers, you never see the staff behind what, behind, like, what makes these picture
00:15:55.860perfect images possible. So I appreciate her saying, yes, I do this. And also, I have a really
00:16:02.620big job. And again, like, male executives would never, ever get criticized for saying how much
00:16:10.820time they spend with their kids. I mean, I'm sure that there are so many male executives out there
00:16:14.560who, like, don't see their kids at all during the week because they're working from, like,
00:16:18.180seven to eight at night right so alas i think that this is an attacking woman problem i do think that0.99
00:16:26.100this was just really good book book publicity uh and i think it's an issue of privilege
00:16:33.820you know we we we live in a country where child care is very very expensive and sparse and i mean
00:16:42.960that is that is a hill that i will constantly die on despite the fact that we are almost out
00:16:47.480almost out of the period of our life where we have to pay excessive amounts for daytime child
00:16:55.460care. All three of our kids will be in public school very soon. We'll see what's going to
00:17:00.340happen for high school. But hopefully, hopefully we are about to enter a time period that is less
00:17:06.660of a financial crunch, right? I'm looking forward to it. We've only got a year to go.
00:17:11.840um yeah no i think yeah i think you're totally right it is peculiar um you know i i do
00:17:19.460this is not a criticism to suggest that most of this is just a big publicity hound thing but the
00:17:25.540you are correct and it is peculiar that a man saying the same thing would probably be ignored
00:17:33.300at best maybe even congratulated at worst for being so such a hard worker and being so efficient
00:17:39.220with their three hours that they spend with their children.
00:18:06.660Yeah. I mean, I think it's because women are constantly put off balance by by all all media and culture. Right. So we often feel less than when it comes to how we mother or how we work or how productive we are.0.98
00:18:20.460And and so lashing out at other women often makes makes you feel better, you know, like that's true, but in a terrible way.
00:18:31.280And so, yeah, again, like most men like you read this.
00:18:35.340That's why I thought it was interesting to have you on.
00:18:36.740You read this and you're like, whatever.0.95
00:18:38.080And then women read this and they're like, oh, my God, they have these very strong reactions to it.
00:18:42.860um and i'm look this was also this was one of my most popular newsletters in the past six months
00:18:51.060which i thought was really really interesting um and that's why i just wanted to unpack it a little
00:18:57.000bit uh you know i also we've been talking a lot about one on one time because when you have three
00:19:04.120kids they just want your singular attention so bad so i took charlie on a solo trip with me to
00:19:09.720the LA Festival of Books and he loved it. And we're planning one with Bea, but it's actually
00:19:15.000really cute because I'm like, oh, we'll take you to New York and we'll go to the American Girl
00:19:18.040Law Store and we'll go see Aunt Juliet. And then she's like, great, but Charlie will come.
00:19:23.000And I don't really know what to do with the baby, who's not a baby anymore, who's three years old,
00:19:26.760solo on her own. I mean, she mostly, she wants to watch Bluey. She wants to watch Bluey and Frozen
00:19:33.000on repeat we are still we are still in in the endless endless loop of frozen right now which
00:19:41.720i thought that we'd never do again but then you have another baby and that's what happens
00:19:45.080oh yeah well the baby's too little to to worry about in in this respect b on the other hand yes
00:19:52.320i mean i hope you do take her to new york soon uh i think she'll absolutely love it she'll talk
00:19:56.860about it and remember it for a long time um same same with charlie which by the way i mean this is
00:20:03.760it's a little bit of a tangent but the um you know that that one-on-one time i think is far more
00:20:10.680valuable to spend easier to spend the extra time on with the kids um and thankfully we're able to
00:20:16.440split them up and uh you know it just becomes much more um you get you get the kids get a lot
00:20:22.800more out of it than us trying to just play play dodgeball coach with three of them at the same
00:20:29.260time well yeah because they're also they're different ages right so they want to do different
00:20:33.800things and i think that the more interesting conversation here is how do families manage it
00:20:40.020in in all this conversation about emma greed or in a lot of the conversation
00:20:44.920she rarely they rarely talk about what her husband is doing like they're they're rarely like okay
00:20:50.100this is how we trade them off or this is how much time he spends with them like the bigger
00:20:54.360conversation is how do you protect your sanity and trade the kids off with your spouse uh so that
00:21:01.940you can do the things for yourself and i i'd like to see more more more with her more with her
00:21:09.080partner more with her husband than than it being piled all on her now here's a funny thing i the
00:21:14.880reason i was distracted a second ago was because i was trying to look through this article to see
00:21:18.520if there was even a mention of her husband which i haven't found yet so maybe it's in there
00:21:22.080somewhere um maybe it doesn't matter maybe the point you know is you know is this all is this
00:21:29.260all about her anyway but like i think that would uh make a make for a much more well-rounded
00:21:34.820story uh presumably he's involved does he exist i don't even know of course he exists and he gets
00:21:41.300mentioned in the story he's like it's just like in passing of he is he is an executive doing blah
00:21:46.120blah blah uh but but there's no so if she leaves for three hours is three hours he's just yeah
00:21:52.760how much time how much time is he putting in right yeah again this lays it all on a mother's
00:21:59.580shoulders which is exhausting because so much is laid on mother's shoulders you and i have worked
00:22:06.100really hard to try to divide all of this up equally and but the world is not is not set up
00:22:16.940for that like you've been volunteering for the school auction you're one of the few dads doing
00:22:21.800this volunteering this kind of this unpaid labor of raising money for the school and keeping keeping
00:22:28.560all of of the like parent school stuff running but you you often find yourself as one of the
00:22:35.000only dads there, right? That is usually the case. Yeah. The issue that you're raising there isn't
00:22:39.960so much a gendered issue. It's simply the fact that there is a great deal of unsigned, unpaid
00:22:46.860labor that goes on with regards to kids that has never been pulled into the economic calculation.0.99
00:22:52.760Traditionally, that has fallen almost exclusively on women. Everything from the literal child1.00
00:22:57.940raising to going to the grocery store to all of those school volunteer things that you just
00:23:03.680mentioned, it so happens that some men have gotten more involved with that kind of thing,
00:23:08.400and perhaps that's increasing over time. But at the end of the day, the conversation still goes
00:23:13.160back to the fact that there's a huge amount of labor that goes on that's just never pulled into
00:23:18.940the economic calculation or valued by economists, government, so on. Yeah, no, so much of it is
00:23:26.860just uncalculated. As an economics major, it's actually very interesting. We've had
00:23:33.660the economist Corinne Lowe on here, who is at the Wharton School at Penn, where I went to college.
00:23:40.200And she is one of the few economists who is actually working on this, who is actually
00:23:44.860calculating the value of women's labor in the workforce at large, in the family units.
00:23:52.300I love Corinne's story because she decided that having a husband was actually a deficit for her.
00:24:00.820And so she got, she was like, this is not working for some people, for some, not for all, I'm not, I'm not divorcing you, but she did divorce her husband and then married a woman, which, uh, look, I think that that may be the answer for, for some women out there.
00:24:16.260Lindsay and I were to, my friend Lindsay was here last night with her baby and we were, we were just talking about this and, you know, so many younger women that we see now are like, why would I have a husband when I could have a wife?
00:24:29.480Hey, you know, it could be some efficiencies there.0.56