Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Here's What No One Tells You About Freezing Your Eggs With Danielle Robay

00:00:00.000 What if asking the right question was actually more powerful than having the right answer?

00:00:13.920 That seems really counterintuitive for a lot of us. I know that it does. But just bear with me here,

00:00:20.980 because that is the premise behind this week's conversation with journalist, author, and I'm

00:00:26.520 just gonna call her a professional question asker, Danielle Robay. You might know her as the creator

00:00:33.660 of the podcast Question Everything, or you might have seen her co-hosting Bookmarked with Reese's

00:00:39.680 Book Club. Danielle has interviewed everyone from Taylor Swift and Viola Davis to Tom Hanks and

00:00:46.680 Serena Williams. But today, we're turning the interview on her. Danielle posted about this

00:00:55.620 on her social media and talked about it on her own podcast. And I just immediately messaged her

00:01:00.380 and was like, okay, girl, I need you to come on under the influence and we've got to unpack

00:01:04.920 all of this. Today, she's opening up about one of the most personal choices she's ever made.

00:01:10.640 One of the most personal choices a woman can make. It's about freezing her eggs. And what I love 0.98

00:01:16.540 about this is that Danielle shares the parts that no one talks about. The needles, the hormones, 0.95

00:01:22.160 the guilt and shame around the numbers of it all, and in fact, just the guilt and shame generally

00:01:26.880 of being a woman in the world who is thinking about their fertility and making choices about

00:01:33.800 their fertility because everyone judges us for everything. Today's chat is an honest and

00:01:40.420 vulnerable conversation about fertility, ambition, choice, and frankly, just the power,

00:01:46.740 the real power of asking better questions and then truly listening to the answers.

00:02:00.160 Hello, Danielle. Hi, Jill. I really missed you. I haven't seen you in a whole year.

00:02:05.660 I know. It's been a whole year. It's been too long. And we can't let this much time go by

00:02:09.400 again. I know, but I listen to your voice, so I feel like. And I listen to your voice, too.

00:02:14.580 So I feel this is what happens when two podcasters get together.

00:02:18.500 It's like, oh, but I've heard you, but I haven't seen you.

00:02:23.000 So I know.

00:02:24.040 Yeah.

00:02:24.320 And what a year it's been.

00:02:25.380 It's been I mean, so much so much has happened this year.

00:02:28.660 And I'm just I'm real.

00:02:30.320 I'm excited to be in the interviewer chair with you today because you are you are such

00:02:37.200 a delightful interviewer and you're so good at asking questions and asking.

00:02:42.060 And I'm not going to say the right questions, but the questions that get you to go deeper, which is a real, real skill.

00:02:50.560 And I hope that I I hope I get to do that for you today.

00:02:54.000 I so appreciate that. Thank you.

00:02:55.700 It's such a huge compliment coming from you because I always feel like you do the same.

00:02:59.580 So thank you. And one of the things I love about questions is that I actually feel like they're a love language.

00:03:05.820 you're telling me that you would rather be here than with anybody else and that you care about

00:03:11.200 what I have to say. And so I just, I'm so grateful. Thank you. Yeah, no, I mean, but it, and it is so

00:03:17.640 true. I mean, when you're asking a question of a person, you're saying, I want, I want to listen

00:03:23.520 to you. I want to hear this answer. And I've never, I've never heard it described as, as a love

00:03:29.400 language before. And I love that, actually. You know, it's so funny. I always think of it

00:03:35.520 actually as an invitation because have you ever heard the psychology of the Gottmans,

00:03:43.180 the married couple? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They're so brilliant. They're so brilliant. When I was

00:03:48.920 writing How to Be Married more than 10 years ago now, because I have my 10-year wedding anniversary

00:03:55.980 in two weeks i know it's crazy it's so crazy but i i i read all of their stuff like they were

00:04:03.240 they were my bible essentially they are a bible like so many people look to them um and if for

00:04:11.520 anybody listening who's not familiar you may have seen on instagram um everybody regurgitates their

00:04:17.360 study about marriage and that um dr john gotman was able to sort of predict divorce by i think

00:04:24.280 like 93.6% or something. But anyways, in their research, they talk about a bid for connection.

00:04:32.020 And they always say that you have to accept the bid in partnership. So for instance, if I say,

00:04:38.880 hey, look at that bird outside the window. And my partner is busy reading or watching TV,

00:04:44.180 it would be really easy to sort of just be like, okay, I'll look later, like I'm doing something.

00:04:49.020 but you're turning away the bid and so to accept the bid is to go out of your way to say wow that

00:04:55.040 is a beautiful bird even if you're like you know you're just doing it to placate somebody

00:04:59.660 and I know this sounds funny but I always think of questions as the same thing and I think that's

00:05:06.000 why they feel vulnerable because we're all nervous like will somebody answer my question

00:05:10.380 will they think it's silly will they turn me down and what it is is a bid for connection it's an

00:05:15.700 invitation and so yeah I do think it's a love language it is it is and I think it's it's

00:05:21.300 actually really easy to forget that too when you're in the stage of life that I'm in right now

00:05:27.720 where my kids are asking I mean I probably get asked I got a hundred questions in a day

00:05:35.700 sometimes even more than that right so so yeah it it it gets hard to put it in that perspective so

00:05:44.040 I'm just I'm really happy that you that you did that for me that you put the idea of a bid right

00:05:49.060 it's like okay you could take this bid right now or you can say I'm too busy um but you could also

00:05:54.280 take a moment to be like I'm gonna look at that bird with you yes and I mean it's tough when

00:05:59.140 you're a parent because I remember asking my dad like why is the sky boob why is the sky boob like

00:06:03.240 30 times sometimes you're like the bid is over but I I am glad that it sort of reframes it

00:06:10.360 sometimes the bid is just over though it is just done you also have a lot of kids there's so many

00:06:19.180 of them there's so yeah although sometimes i say that and people are like how many and i'm like

00:06:23.280 three and they're like that that's not that many and i'm like okay for me it is it is a lot for me

00:06:27.500 yeah i think because it is um i remember that you know 10 years ago before i was even married and

00:06:34.380 before i had any kids i was like one seems like a lot of kids like that seemed that seems bananas

00:06:38.640 to me so if that person could see me now they'd be like holy shit yeah after kids outnumber parents

00:06:45.060 it's a lot of kids totally right it is it is well but you know what conversations with kids

00:06:53.600 are are fascinating we we try to do conversation cards at dinner which are kind of the kid version

00:07:02.040 of your cards you have you have a deck of cards called question everything and each one of them

00:07:08.400 is kind of a cue for conversation.

00:07:10.840 Do you have a favorite one of those?

00:07:13.540 Ooh, I have a, so some are light and fun

00:07:16.340 and some are deeper and more reflective.

00:07:17.800 And I think I have one of each.

00:07:20.140 For light and fun, I love do plants thrive or die in your care

00:07:23.680 because I actually think it says so much.

00:07:25.920 It really opens up a conversation.

00:07:29.120 And for deeper and more reflective,

00:07:32.480 one of my favorite questions,

00:07:34.080 and this is a very, 0.66

00:07:35.080 Barbara Walters was always obsessed with misunderstood people.

00:07:38.400 and i think this gets to the heart of that idea which is what is something about you that you

00:07:44.860 wish people could see at first glance oh and i think it's sort of is a is a easy way to get at

00:07:53.740 the next layer oh my gosh i don't know how i would answer that right now

00:08:00.640 huh all right i'm gonna think about it i'm gonna think about it throughout this episode

00:08:06.780 do you have an answer to that one you must I do I always wish that people could see that I was

00:08:14.180 like actually love to laugh and was really fun I think because I always get the feedback on my

00:08:20.600 Instagram that I'm sort of serious and because I love these deep questions they're like you know

00:08:25.860 you're like you're Capricorn intense and um maybe but I actually like really love to laugh but I

00:08:33.080 don't think everybody gets to see that oh that's a good one that's a good one all right i'm gonna

00:08:37.740 i'm gonna i'm gonna ruminate on mine i'm gonna i'm gonna keep it going and also plants do not do well

00:08:44.240 under my care they don't i i wish that they did better though i because you're very nurturing

00:08:52.640 so there's another reason i think so i think one of the reasons is also the same reason

00:08:58.280 that I no longer have a pet right now. I think I've reached my maximum amount of caregiving

00:09:04.900 that I have for the moment with not just my kids, but with my husband, because, you know,

00:09:11.740 husband taking care of is also a lot, sometimes more than your kids. And so I just think that I

00:09:18.320 don't have any energy left for the plants, but I want to. So I'm constantly trying and then

00:09:24.080 constantly just not, not doing great, not doing great at it, but I, but I strive.

00:09:30.560 I'm always joking.

00:09:31.580 Have you, have you tried the succulents yet? Because those also die in my care.

00:09:36.500 Oh, wow. Okay. No, I have not, I have not tried succulents, but that is,

00:09:40.940 that is intense that, that, because it takes a lot to kill a succulent, right?

00:09:45.320 I know. Everyone thinks succulents are like the foolproof three in thumb.

00:09:48.780 And you're like, apparently not. Apparently not.

00:09:51.240 Not for a gal on the go.

00:09:52.580 not forget well not so and that is the thing like I am constantly all over the place I mean we just

00:09:58.000 got home from a summer away pretty much all summer I've been on book tour we've been on the road

00:10:03.440 together as a family and all the tomato plants died and it makes my husband so sad like he is

00:10:08.800 I think this is one of the the sweetest things about him when plants die he just it breaks his

00:10:14.100 heart he's like this is why we can't have them he's like we failed them and I'm like oh my gosh

00:10:19.800 you sweet sweet man but i'm like but we tried and we got some we got a couple cherry tomatoes

00:10:26.280 and isn't that better than no cherry tomatoes and he's like i'd rather have no cherry tomatoes

00:10:30.320 were they delicious i feel like fresh tomatoes are so delicious fresh tomatoes are so much better

00:10:36.300 than any other tomatoes like even when they're on your sad dried uh tomato vine on my deck i'm

00:10:44.700 looking at them right now and i'm just like oh tomato fail but those three tomatoes were so good

00:10:50.200 so good yeah i'm so glad you had those three and see then i mean that that could start another

00:10:56.400 conversation too right it's like do you see the glass half full do you see the three tomatoes as

00:11:00.760 worthy of having grown the plant right great point i never even thought of that i know i know um yeah

00:11:07.900 we could talk about tomatoes all day long we could talk about we could talk about the questions we

00:11:11.680 could just go through the deck uh but we could but we we have we have so much more to talk about

00:11:16.000 i want to take a quick break and then i want to dive into your own recent journey which i'm

00:11:21.480 fascinated about and i love that you've been so open about it because this is something that i

00:11:26.100 think young women need to be talking about more yeah with each other and asking the hard questions

00:11:32.460 and saying what it's really like you have been going through freezing your eggs and i want to

00:11:38.160 hear all about it I can't wait to talk about it okay we are back let's talk about egg freezing

00:11:52.340 this is egg freezing is something that I considered for so long because did you oh my gosh yeah so I

00:12:00.040 mean i was in my early 30s i was single i had had no prospects for for getting married on the horizon

00:12:08.880 or or making babies and but i knew that i wanted kids and i kept going back and forth should i

00:12:16.400 freeze my eggs is it too late to freeze my eggs and just as i was about to go do it i met my

00:12:24.000 husband we got engaged and got married wow so you were you had made the choice that you were going

00:12:28.540 to do it. I had made the choice that I was going to do it. And I think, and I feel like 10 years

00:12:33.060 ago was kind of right around this zeitgeist shift when a lot of women my age were like just getting

00:12:40.420 interested in this. So like, when did you decide that you were going to do it?

00:12:45.900 I just, before I jump in, I want to touch on what you just said, because I do feel very grateful

00:12:51.060 for some public figures who were open about their journey. Erin Andrews was somebody that I heard

00:12:57.420 talking about it when not a lot of people were it was it was it sort of had this like veil or

00:13:03.120 layer of taboo that is so silly there's no reason for that but um I'm always grateful I think like

00:13:11.400 there's some brave women that that unveiled it that I'm grateful to um I decided to do it when

00:13:18.740 I was 31. I was dating. My last serious relationship had ended when I was 28. And when I turned 30,

00:13:29.500 I knew I wanted to have a family. Kids were important to me. And I had no prospects. And I

00:13:36.980 also felt like if I was being honest, I had this little intuition that was like, you might have to

00:13:42.880 do this later in life because of the career that you want and what you're trying to build.

00:13:46.880 and they call it sort of an insurance policy, which we'll talk about. I'm not sure that's

00:13:53.060 actually fair or true, but at the time I did feel like I wanted that insurance policy. And so

00:13:59.800 I went to go do it when I was 31 and I actually had a medicine mishap on day four.

00:14:08.840 And so I waited another year and did it at 32. Okay. Okay. And so talk to me about the whole

00:14:15.840 process of like getting ready to do this and like what are the what are the steps you even have to

00:14:21.880 take because like you said for a long time I don't think enough people were talking about it I still 1.00

00:14:26.880 don't think enough people are talking about it because as with everything with women's bodies

00:14:31.920 it's all taboo like it's like we're not supposed to talk about it's like oh I want a family so I'm

00:14:37.380 doing the thing that is going to help me get there one of these days and yet there's still like shame

00:14:45.680 and guilt heaped upon that choice like there's there's just there everything having to do with

00:14:51.260 women's bodies has so much baggage with it you're so right and we're not one size fits all um i know

00:15:00.460 it's sort of a funny comparison but like men having sex it's like sort of the same stuff works for

00:15:06.220 them women having sex every woman is so different and i think that that also is is is like how our

00:15:14.400 body's work too. And so I didn't do a lot to get ready. In hindsight, I did a podcast episode with

00:15:21.780 the doctors and the clinic that I did, that I used. And once I aired it, a lot of women

00:15:30.240 actually came back to me with thoughts and that I added to the show notes because it was really 1.00

00:15:36.820 helpful. I wish I would have done, I love an East West medicine mix. I wish I would have done some

00:15:42.840 acupuncture months leading up to it. I wish I would have actually thought about my nutrition

00:15:48.640 more. Sticking to a whole foods diet, including like fatty fish, like salmon or sea bass,

00:15:55.580 beef, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, leafy greens, bone broth. I didn't think about any of that.

00:16:01.960 And I do think that if you're really trying to engineer your best results,

00:16:05.720 it's important to think about food and stress. Yes. Yes. I mean, your best results for anything

00:16:12.480 having to do with your body right yeah yeah exactly yeah and you also don't want to make

00:16:17.500 yourself nuts like it has to fit into your life and and work within your life i still drink coffee

00:16:22.160 some people don't want to do that but i had to work throughout doing it and i i needed coffee

00:16:27.940 to survive um so you have to make it work within your life i think yeah i mean the same as you have

00:16:35.100 to make anything work within your life or you're not going to stick with it you're not going to

00:16:38.940 And you're not going to be happy with the results.

00:16:42.100 So what is the process like to get there?

00:16:46.560 It's interesting.

00:16:47.580 It gets increased for me.

00:16:48.960 It got increasingly tough.

00:16:51.140 The beginning was actually pretty easy and simple.

00:16:54.440 You go into the clinic and you get your blood drawn and you do an ultrasound and they let

00:17:00.200 you know how many follicles you have.

00:17:03.100 Follicles turn into eggs.

00:17:04.660 and I think I had like 18 follicles.

00:17:09.220 Not all of those end up turning into eggs.

00:17:13.220 And then the blood test determines

00:17:16.280 what medicine they put you on

00:17:18.520 and like the ratio of medicine.

00:17:20.820 The craziest part to me

00:17:22.580 was they send you home with this bag of medicine

00:17:24.780 and the clinic I went to was awesome

00:17:27.300 and they were like,

00:17:28.120 watch our YouTube videos on the website.

00:17:30.080 It'll show you how to mix everything.

00:17:32.100 but i was i got like a c in biology and chemistry i am not a science person and i don't think anyone

00:17:39.360 should have me mixing medicine like no the first day is really confusing but you do watch the

00:17:46.340 youtube videos and after that you sort of get the hang of it but you're mixing your medicine every

00:17:50.240 night and then you're sticking yourself with a needle in the stomach um it's it's a it stings a

00:17:57.500 little bit it's not so bad actually the first night is um sort of shocking because i'd never

00:18:02.680 put a needle into my body before by myself which is weird it's a weird thing right i had never

00:18:08.880 i had never done it until i started taking a glp1 um yes about a year ago and and all of a sudden

00:18:16.160 i'm sticking myself with a needle in my stomach and i'm like oh oh that's this is such a strange

00:18:20.920 thing to be doing did you get over the shock of it i got oh yeah no i mean i could stick pretty

00:18:26.040 much anything in my body at this point but like but it was shocking the first time i did it was

00:18:30.160 very shocking okay so you know exactly what i mean like you're just like whoa how's this gonna feel

00:18:35.220 and it's actually not so bad um and then every few days you go in for ultrasounds and blood tests

00:18:41.940 just to monitor your progress and um it takes anywhere from like 10 to 17 days for people

00:18:50.220 I think mine was like 13 or 14 days. And at one point you do an ultrasound and they're like,

00:18:56.620 okay, your follicles, your eggs are ready. So that night you take something called the trigger shot.

00:19:01.700 And that was the weirdest night for me because up until then I was maybe a little bloated, but

00:19:07.940 the only symptom I really had was some exhaustion. I wasn't that emotional. But when you take the

00:19:15.640 trigger shot, your stomach distends and you wake up. And the next day when you walk, you can like

00:19:21.240 feel your insides jiggling. Like I was like, Oh, are these my organs? It's like, what? Oh,

00:19:26.520 what's happening? Uh, and then you go in for the retrieval at the hospital. Um, I tell everybody

00:19:34.260 to bring socks cause you get cold for like when you're under anesthesia and nobody tells you that

00:19:39.280 and uh some snacks in case you get nauseous from the anesthesia and then they tell you how many

00:19:46.400 eggs you got and the frustrating part is they have to do genetic testing on those eggs so

00:19:53.480 i got 15 eggs retrieved but only 12 were viable okay and okay what was that like what was like

00:20:01.420 what how emotional was that first to find out the number right because i feel like they make a big

00:20:07.140 deal about the number that you get i do and then and then you know also then to go through the

00:20:12.960 viability of it right yeah um they say the goal is really to get um about 20 eggs in order to have

00:20:23.300 um good security on one baby one live baby which is a lot of eggs that's a lot of eggs considering

00:20:32.640 as women we drop an egg every month when we're when we're you know just normal perioding it's

00:20:40.420 the end of the day so I'm going to use I'm going to use a word like perioding menstruating that's

00:20:44.340 the word that I was looking for uh and so that's more eggs than we drop in a year it's a lot of

00:20:50.080 eggs yeah it's a lot of eggs and um it's not enough really you know like 12 isn't enough I

00:20:56.960 I should have done another round. I chose not to at that point. It was it it wreaked havoc on my

00:21:04.520 body. To be honest, the two weeks of doing doing it was not as bad. The six months after were hard

00:21:13.160 for me. And I had friends who were older than me who did it. And they were like, oh, yeah,

00:21:18.980 that happened to me, too. I just didn't like I forgot to tell you about that part. And I tell

00:21:24.960 everybody about that part because the six months after your hormones, I mean, it's, it's not like

00:21:30.940 giving birth, but your hormones are really activated. And I was really emotional for six

00:21:38.320 months. Um, a little sad, like more sad than I, I'm usually a happy person. Um, and I didn't fit

00:21:46.840 into my jeans properly for like six months. Um, no matter how hard or how, how hard I worked out

00:21:52.720 or anything, which is sort of what my friends who give birth tell me. And so nobody talks about that

00:21:58.560 part. But to your question about eggs, you feel really proud of your body because you feel like

00:22:05.980 it worked for you unless the opposite happens. And then you feel really sad. And my friends who

00:22:15.600 have gone through it and are a little bit older and got like one egg or three eggs just feel

00:22:20.320 really discouraged it's there's a lot of stress on that number yeah yeah no and i'll bet i mean i

00:22:27.260 just having gone through three pregnancies and and knowing the emotional roller coaster that is

00:22:35.940 yeah i mean i imagine that this has to be similar in so many ways did the doctors did you ask them

00:22:44.600 about like why you felt you know a little bit sadder afterwards like does it have to do with

00:22:50.500 the hormones being primed in your body kind of to just start to start breeding in a way and then

00:22:56.540 is your body reacting to that because you didn't move forward part of what's difficult with egg

00:23:02.960 freezing and ivf and so egg freezing is the first half of ivf but for both of those what's really

00:23:10.080 hard is you ask doctors and you ask really great doctors, very plain questions, simple questions

00:23:17.240 that you think could have direct answers. And nobody is really able to tell you anything because

00:23:23.560 they don't want to give you a definitive answer. So when I went to them and said,

00:23:29.140 you know, could this be possible? They were like, we've had patients report that,

00:23:35.440 but we're really not sure. I remember when I got my UTI, which I did not have, or excuse me,

00:23:42.760 my, what is it called? What's the thing that prevents pregnancy? Oh, IUD. IUD, thank you.

00:23:51.060 Different, different, different, different, different acronym. Yep. When I got my IUD,

00:23:57.160 which you do not have to take out to freeze your eggs, which is good. You don't. That's so,

00:24:01.460 I've never, I wouldn't have thought of that, but I would think you would have to keep your IUD in.

00:24:05.440 You do. You keep it in. You don't have to take it out.

00:24:07.300 Oh, no. Oh, no. I mean, I would think you would have to take it out.

00:24:09.780 I did, too. But you don't, which is so lovely because it hurts to in and out.

00:24:13.900 But it hurts so much to take in and out. Yes.

00:24:17.020 Really. And after I got my IUD, my gynecologist, I felt really anxious.

00:24:23.880 And I'd never had anxiety before. And my gynecologist was like, no, that's definitely not from the IUD.

00:24:29.880 And I was like, but what has changed? Like nothing in my life has changed.

00:24:33.460 And I had it. I had that for like six months. And so I think they're not they're not my long

00:24:38.820 answers. They don't really give you any answers. Yeah. Yeah. To be fair, the best information

00:24:46.960 came from other women who had been through it. And I shared my whole journey on social media

00:24:51.960 because I'm a journalist by trade. And so I felt like everything I had seen on YouTube of people

00:24:58.300 freezing their eggs was helpful to see the process but like youtubers aren't sort of trained to like

00:25:05.500 string a story together and i was like i want to do this in a way that that feels like almost like

00:25:11.140 a documentary for people to really understand what it's like and yeah and i think you did i mean i

00:25:19.400 think i you certainly stopped me in my scroll i messaged you right away and was like we have to

00:25:23.920 talk about this on the podcast yeah um because it was it was the first time I think I had seen

00:25:31.840 egg freezing presented in this way where I was watching watching a real human being

00:25:39.400 go through it and and talk about what it was actually like yeah I I kind of shared especially

00:25:46.140 on the podcast I shared the good the bad and the ugly um and you know in hindsight I'm now 34 so

00:25:55.280 I'm like two years out of egg freezing and I have some mixed feelings about it um I did some

00:26:04.880 research um there's a New York Times article that shares that women who freeze their eggs only about

00:26:11.020 3% of them actually go and use the eggs. And then there is no statistic on how successful those 3%

00:26:20.560 are. That's amazing to me that there's no statistic on that. Well, IVF has a little bit

00:26:29.820 longer runway. Egg freezing is still relatively new technology. So they just don't have the

00:26:35.640 information yet and i have some friends and this is all anecdotal obviously just in my circle but

00:26:42.220 i have some friends who froze eggs at 31 32 34 and at 39 met a partner they really loved they all

00:26:49.380 like you know started businesses and were were really focused on career and then when they went

00:26:53.760 to unfreeze or de-thaw their eggs none of them were viable um and they had the 20 eggs and so

00:27:03.060 it's i'm still happy i did it um and i i recommend the clinic i went to to so many women because i

00:27:12.340 really felt so taken care of by them but um it's it's not a foolproof insurance policy the way

00:27:19.040 people think it is and i think that's really important to share yeah yeah and i think that's

00:27:24.800 really interesting is that how you looked at it where did you do it because you thought

00:27:29.740 And you touched on this a little bit earlier. But you're like, to do what I want to do in the world, I'm going to need time. And this gives me the time. I hear from other women, like, this bought me some time to be able to build my professional life and still hopefully build a family later on.

00:27:49.360 yeah absolutely that is why i did it it's hard because um we've made so many strides as women

00:27:56.660 and i think this is the part that we're still contending with because the rise of our career

00:28:01.860 and our peak fertility meet there's this intersection where they meet and it's there

00:28:08.560 is literally yes a ven intersection right there where you're like i'm the most successful

00:28:14.780 I'm ever going to be. And I'm also the most fertile that I'm ever going to be.

00:28:20.680 And I mean, I'm curious to hear your experience because I've had a lot of friends and people

00:28:25.580 I've interviewed say, you can do it both, like at the same time, you can have kids and you make it

00:28:32.000 work. And so I don't think it seems like it's one or the other. I just, it hasn't happened for me

00:28:37.120 yet. Well, exactly. And I am a firm believer that you can absolutely make it work. I mean,

00:28:43.140 And I think that I hit peak publishing success so far with Sicilian Inheritance last summer.

00:28:51.480 And now the launch of Everyone is Lying to You has been great.

00:28:55.540 It's only been out for a month at this point.

00:28:58.440 And I now have three books coming out in the next three years.

00:29:01.900 I am probably at the height of where my career has been so far.

00:29:07.160 I'm 44 and I have three kids under eight.

00:29:10.660 So I've been doing all of that.

00:29:12.340 all of that build up while i've been having babies my best advice to young women is first off you

00:29:20.120 can't control when you meet the person that is going to build this life with you um sadly you

00:29:25.420 just can't right like i was out there i was dating and then all of a sudden i met nick astor on a

00:29:30.320 boat in the galapagos like unfortunately there is some serendipity to that such a great name

00:29:36.260 nick astor i know people are like why do you call him by both names and i'm like why wouldn't i go

00:29:40.260 in my book names it's excellent he's like a literary heroine he's exactly exactly and so

00:29:45.860 but my best advice is you and i i totally swiped this from from uh catlin moran you marry a glass

00:29:54.720 ceiling and so like i couldn't do any of this without a partner that was like i'm here to

00:29:59.160 support you and your journey to be an equal partner in raising these children um and to

00:30:06.140 figure out how to help you have all of this balance because without that, you're not going

00:30:11.520 to be able to do it. If you have it, I think, I think you can do both at the same time. And I'm,

00:30:16.060 I'm really excited with how my life has turned out. I got to say, I'm like nine out of 10 happy

00:30:21.240 right now. And that seems pretty good. It's pretty high. It's pretty high. It's pretty high,

00:30:25.740 right? Like I like my kids. I like my job. I like my husband the majority of the time.

00:30:31.060 Um, but I, I do see, I see so many women not achieved what they want professionally,

00:30:37.720 not because of their children, but because of their partner.

00:30:41.720 So it's really interesting. You say that that is probably my, the holdup for me in terms of

00:30:49.980 partnership. Um, there's like, you know, the sliding doors movie with Gwyneth Paltrow. I

00:30:54.580 think about that all the time. Um, I think we all do. I think we all weirdly still reference

00:30:59.580 sliding doors despite many of us not having watched it in 20 years i know it's one of those

00:31:05.200 movies that sticks with you and um there are men who i have dated who would have been great partners

00:31:13.620 and fun awesome life partners had i not wanted kids and my thought that like with having kids

00:31:21.540 i don't think that they were the right person for me it really changes things it really it really

00:31:26.080 changes things it a hundred percent percent does and so you know my my advice is always to wait

00:31:31.900 until you find that partner who's going to help you have have the things that you want because

00:31:37.180 we do we deserve to have those things and to find someone who who wants the kids as much as you want

00:31:43.420 the kids i have another friend who wanted you know two or three kids and her partner only wanted one

00:31:48.580 she thought she could change his mind she has not and it is they i think they just resent each other

00:31:54.220 It's a thing that is never going to be resolved between the two of them.

00:31:58.000 It's funny you say that because I've always wanted to create a card game for people to play before they get married because not everybody does like couples counseling or I've heard in Catholicism sometimes you see a pastor.

00:32:10.780 Oh, you do. Yeah, you do pre-Cana. And they ask you all these questions. It's brilliant.

00:32:15.880 Everyone should do that. I think that's so great.

00:32:18.800 So I want to make a card game for it because, like, for instance, how do you think about your third act?

00:32:24.760 Where do you want to spend retirement?

00:32:26.240 And that's not a deal-breaking question, but it's good information to have.

00:32:30.340 Like, what if one of you wants to be on an island, like on a hammock, and the other one wants to be on Capitol Hill, picketing?

00:32:38.440 Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:32:40.320 I know, I know.

00:32:42.220 Yeah, and Nick and I have only just started talking about that.

00:32:44.880 I mean, he's 51. And I'm also like, I don't want to work this hard much longer.

00:32:49.980 And so we're like, what do we want it to look like in 10 years when our first kid goes off to college in 10 years is how long we've been married.

00:32:56.800 It's not that long.

00:32:58.380 Yeah, that's a great point.

00:33:00.800 Do you feel, was there a year where you felt like, wow, I really know this man now?

00:33:06.020 I know him inside and out.

00:33:07.740 Oh, I think it's now. I think it's now.

00:33:09.880 I think it's after three babies, after moving four times, after watching both of us have

00:33:17.540 career successes and career failures.

00:33:20.780 I mean, he's been laid off twice.

00:33:22.140 He's also sold a company.

00:33:23.760 I've released bestsellers and I've released total flops, right?

00:33:27.420 And just, and going through phases where you want to do it with each other all the time.

00:33:32.920 And then also phases where you're like, oh my God, don't touch me.

00:33:35.180 I don't want to be, I'm all touched out.

00:33:37.100 I'm all touched out by all of the things touching me all the time.

00:33:40.760 Like, I think, yeah, but it's taken 10 years and maybe, you know, 10 more years down the road.

00:33:46.060 I'll be like, oh, no, now we're here.

00:33:47.640 But I feel it feels like it right now.

00:33:50.220 It does.

00:33:51.580 That's cool.

00:33:52.660 Yeah.

00:33:53.360 Yeah.

00:33:53.820 All right.

00:33:54.060 Let's take one more break.

00:33:55.000 And when we get back, I want to talk about what you wish you'd known going into the egg freezing.

00:34:01.580 What advice you would give people and if you have any regrets about it.

00:34:06.080 Yeah.

00:34:07.100 okay we are back are you happy that you did it

00:34:19.640 i am happy i did it um i am happy i did it i

00:34:26.140 i'm not positive about it

00:34:31.360 yeah yeah yeah do you have any regrets about it

00:34:37.100 I think my only regrets are not knowing this fact, which is sort of bizarre.

00:34:50.800 But eggs are more fragile than embryos.

00:34:55.700 Embryos are sperm and egg combined.

00:34:58.340 They've really nailed IVF.

00:35:00.120 Like, they've got that thing down.

00:35:01.320 and I think had I known this at the time I may have frozen a few embryos I may have like gotten

00:35:11.660 a sperm donor or something and frozen a few of my eggs as embryos because those have a higher rate

00:35:18.220 of de-thawing and I know that sounds nuts because it's like well what if you meet a partner but my

00:35:23.980 thought now is well what if i don't it's fair fair thought okay absolutely and yeah i mean i've heard

00:35:32.300 that too just through like you know the ivfe grapevine of yeah yeah you and and then you're

00:35:39.780 going through the whole process of finding a sperm donor which is a whole other adventure uh

00:35:46.160 but yeah i mean i suppose you still could though um i mean do you feel like it's too late for you

00:35:52.540 to do that? No, I could. I'm not at the point where I'm ready to consider that. But I definitely

00:36:00.060 still could. I think for everybody out there considering it or like even thinking about

00:36:06.680 your fertility, even if you're like in your 20s, ask your doctor to check your AMH levels

00:36:12.720 when they do your blood test. They can do it during your annual checkup and it doesn't cost

00:36:18.840 anything extra. And that number will give you insight into your fertility. And nobody told me

00:36:24.580 that until I froze my eggs. Oh my gosh. Wow. Okay. That's really interesting. Again, I mean,

00:36:32.020 the things that we do not know about women's bodies, the things that are not common knowledge

00:36:36.300 continue to blow my freaking mind. Totally. I could also give you little tips when you're 0.72

00:36:47.340 going through it that women shared with me that the clinics and doctor's offices don't share with 0.99

00:36:51.580 you, which is like ice before you do any of your shots because it takes most of the stinging away.

00:36:58.920 Make sure you're drinking tons of electrolytes during the process.

00:37:03.640 You can get Arnica cream for bruising if you care enough. Oh, yeah. Arnica cream's the best.

00:37:10.840 Yes. Oh, here's a good one. You can ask your clinic or your doctors for smaller needles.

00:37:16.680 the the they give you the big ones usually because that's what it comes with but if you

00:37:21.260 ask for smaller needles they usually have them oh my god shut up really yeah a thing a thing that i

00:37:27.440 would just like them to do yeah yeah yeah that'd be nice just you know i know reduce reduce my pain 1.00

00:37:36.640 please but thank god for other women you know because all the offer like i had all these people 0.99

00:37:42.220 on Instagram who had been through IVF, mostly none of them egg freezing, but messaged me all

00:37:47.000 these things. And so I actually put a guide together of all these tips and then a separate

00:37:52.020 guide of questions to ask any clinic you go to ahead of, um, even like going down this road

00:37:59.600 because, um, okay, here's a great, a great reason why. So, um, eggs do not do well in transport.

00:38:08.560 so oh okay things i would not have known i didn't either um one of the selling points of the clinic

00:38:16.060 i went to in chicago which is ova is that they store your eggs at the facility at the hospital

00:38:22.920 where they um where they do the withdrawal and a lot of clinics don't do that and so they

00:38:31.740 take the eggs they do the retrieval and then they have to put them on a truck on ice

00:38:36.920 to where they store them and then should you ever want them they have to be put on a truck

00:38:43.480 back to the hospital where you would do the insertion and that transport time is dangerous

00:38:50.200 so that seems that seems terrible like it just seems like that it shouldn't it seems like it

00:38:56.920 shouldn't be allowed frankly yeah i agree i mean i think it's like a a pretty unregulated

00:39:06.020 um yes industry uh there's a documentary right now coming out a woman like a female director 1.00

00:39:14.340 in santa monica is doing she thinks that egg freezing preys on women's insecurities and that

00:39:20.040 it's this financial sort of scam i don't feel that way but i do think there's a lot to learn

00:39:28.640 about the process yeah yeah I mean I think that there's a lot to unpack there right um I I think

00:39:37.260 preying on on our insecurities maybe takes it to a different sort of level but I will say

00:39:44.660 it's definitely an industry that capitalizes on the fact that we constantly feel like we're not

00:39:51.900 enough in certain parts of our life um and I do think that part of that can be predatory um I

00:39:59.980 mean much like I think half of the wellness industry is predatory because you know we're

00:40:04.700 being made to feel like we are not enough and that if only we buy this thing or do this thing

00:40:10.720 we will be enough and we'll be better right yeah um so yeah so I think it's definitely

00:40:16.600 definitely something worth unpacking when you talked so publicly about this did you get any

00:40:23.520 backlash because so many of the comments were like thank you thank you thank you but did you

00:40:27.900 also get backlash from people it's interesting I never put out anything that personal because

00:40:34.440 as a journalist or a podcast host it's always about my guest and so I was very nervous sharing

00:40:41.160 something so personal and something that in some states is very controversial. And so I was ready

00:40:48.080 for backlash. I didn't have much. I'm lucky. My corner of the internet, I have like under 300,000

00:40:56.940 people following me. And I sort of think that I've heard from influencers and that that's the

00:41:04.860 moment. That's the litmus. Because after that, you start getting haters. I'm still at the number

00:41:10.760 like where it's a very kind corner of the internet and a lot of my work has been in women's media so

00:41:17.360 the people following me like know that I'm for the girls and the girls showed up for me which

00:41:21.980 was very sweet yes yes the thing I was not expecting because I'm sort of um one of the

00:41:28.920 ways that I received love and loved in my love in my house growing up was being self-sufficient

00:41:33.860 and, um, I'm a Capricorn and I'm the eldest daughter. And so, um, I'm, I'm sort of a lone

00:41:40.840 wolf and I'm actually okay with that. But the process was made so much better by these women 0.53

00:41:48.820 that reached out and they DM'd me and were like, okay, here's what you're about to feel. I was in

00:41:54.840 this too. Here's, you know, make sure you do X, Y, and Z. And I actually realized how important

00:42:01.540 community was in that process, more so than I anticipated. And the best comments that I received

00:42:08.240 from that video were from women who either emailed me or DMed me saying, I felt so alone in this

00:42:14.480 process and your videos and your podcast like really made me feel like we were doing it together.

00:42:20.380 And thank you. And that was awesome because it is a, it's a lonely experience.

00:42:25.880 i and i think a lot of things that we go through as women can be lonely experiences the best

00:42:33.660 advice i've ever gotten about birth about raising kids about any weird stuff going on in my body

00:42:39.960 have always come from other women every single time and some of those are women women online

00:42:44.740 that i've never met in person and some of them are my best girlfriends since i was 12 years old

00:42:50.240 i know i didn't realize that joe until probably i was 28 yeah oh no it took me a really long time 0.99

00:42:59.600 a really long time absolutely absolutely yeah um women are so generous with each other i think 1.00

00:43:08.700 especially in the happy corners of the internet in the happier corners of the internet which is 1.00

00:43:17.800 where I would like to remain totally me too and you know you can um you can like what is it called

00:43:25.580 like bleep words or block certain words yes yes we learned this when I talked to yeah when I talked

00:43:31.440 to the folks from from meta um that yeah you can you can block certain kinds of comments which I

00:43:37.580 think is a brilliant thing to do if you're a woman putting yourself out there online yes I have a few

00:43:44.280 words blocked yeah no i've got some words i got some i got some words that i bought yeah i do

00:43:49.360 i do absolutely well will you tell everyone where they can find you and all of your incredible work

00:43:54.720 how they can get the questions and listen to your podcast thank you joe um i met danielle

00:44:01.020 robay r-o-b-a-y on instagram and tiktok uh the cards are linked on my instagram but they're at

00:44:07.880 questioneverythingshop.com also uh I actually pack them myself so sometimes I write little

00:44:14.720 notes to people oh my gosh I love that yeah it's really fun yeah it's like when for a while I was

00:44:21.260 drawing cannolis in people's Sicilian inheritances but they didn't look like cannolis and only a few

00:44:26.620 people appreciated them so cute it was cute you did it in random books in random books like on

00:44:33.240 random pages it's so fun find the cannoli um but i'm a bad cannoli i mean cannolis are hard

00:44:37.560 to make look like cannolis but yeah yeah they're a little phallic yep they're not a little phallic

00:44:43.440 not a little phallic danielle yeah um but yeah just if questions are also your love language

00:44:51.140 or you want to get better at asking them it's truly just about practice so uh you can find me

00:44:56.940 online or i also do bookmarked by reese's book club which is the reese's book club podcast which

00:45:02.640 is also a wonderful listen thank you thank you it's so special to get to talk to authors i know

00:45:09.820 you guys are a special breed of people we're something my rock stars uh thank you so much

00:45:16.060 for coming on today i appreciate thanks for creating a space like this for us

00:45:32.640 We'll see you next time.

00:46:02.640 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 04, 2025

Here's What No One Tells You About Freezing Your Eggs With Danielle Robay

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