Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - How Moms can Make Friends and Dinner with Caroline Chambers

00:00:00.000 Hello, all. Jo here, and you are listening to Under the Influence just moments before

00:00:13.720 I flee my family and hop on a plane to Paris. Sigh. Cue Holiday Road from the vacation movies,

00:00:24.600 my friends, I am getting out of here. And today's conversation actually made me feel pretty awesome

00:00:32.140 about getting out of here for a lot of reasons. We were supposed to be talking about Carolyn

00:00:39.220 Chambers' new cookbook, What to Cook When You Don't Feel Like Cooking. It is also the name

00:00:46.260 of her best-selling, number one best-selling food and recipe substack. I'll say it again,

00:00:52.480 what to cook when you don't feel like cooking. I love this sub stack. I cook her recipes every

00:00:58.080 week. And so, yeah, we were supposed to talk about that today. But we ended up, we ended up

00:01:04.280 talking about two other things that I think are just as important. One, making friends and building

00:01:12.120 community as a grown-up. So important. We are going to dig into this a lot, a lot, a lot this

00:01:18.560 season. Because I cannot stress enough how important my own village and my own community

00:01:25.420 are to me, just for my very, very survival. And it can be tricky. It can be tricky to build

00:01:32.980 community. It is work, just like any relationship is work. And then we also talked about the gnarled

00:01:39.540 guilt and shame that mothers often feel when we leave our kids. Now, I'm going to Paris for

00:01:46.220 Glynis's 50th birthday, my 44th birthday, and also to start research for my new book,

00:01:53.220 The Lost Masterpiece. But I felt like I had to give myself all of these reasons just to leave.

00:02:00.780 And it was honestly just as hard when I left for my own book tour for Sicilian Inheritance.

00:02:07.620 Buy it early and often, friends. You know, the holidays. The holidays will be here

00:02:12.140 in a few months, and you're going to want to stock up on like 10 copies, and they could sell out.

00:02:16.220 Anyway, that was today's commercial for the Sicilian inheritance. But no, when I was leaving

00:02:23.620 on that book tour, I felt terrible, even though I was working. And Carolyn and I were talking about

00:02:30.340 how, you know, she felt the same way. She's got three little kids. And her teacher, her son's

00:02:37.140 preschool teacher, did this awesome thing that totally made me cry. And eventually in this

00:02:43.400 episode, both of us just devolve into tears, because it is so joyful and so wonderful.

00:02:57.240 I want to talk a little bit about this great note that you got from one of your son's teachers. You

00:03:02.840 went away on book tour. I've been away on book tour essentially like on and off since April 2nd.

00:03:10.200 I feel guilty every time I do it. I feel guilty every time I do it, which is dumb because this 0.68

00:03:14.760 is my job, right? But I think sometimes people have to tell us, don't feel guilty. You're doing

00:03:20.260 the best thing for your kids. So tell me, tell me about this note. Yes. So this note, I left on

00:03:25.280 book tour. My book published August 12th. That was about two days after my kids went back to

00:03:32.100 school. And, you know, even though two of one of them, actually only one of them was staying in the

00:03:39.220 same school my two-year-old was going for the first time my five-year-old was starting kindergarten

00:03:45.520 so it was like a very big week in this household there was a lot going on um and i was headed out

00:03:54.040 of town for 10 days i did like a 10-day first leg you know you gotta crank in that first right

00:03:59.680 this is work yeah this is our work yes this is our job it's not just like yeah like this is our

00:04:06.180 work and it's also it's like the most important part of all of it like yeah it has to be a really

00:04:13.000 good book to have anything to like go on tour for but i think i i didn't really realize how

00:04:20.840 important that it almost feels like okay but tour you're only seeing you know 200 to 600 people a

00:04:28.760 night why is that so important and it's not just seeing those 200 people it's also like

00:04:35.460 having the content to share with your community you know the much larger it's really important

00:04:42.260 the tours are important so yeah i'm on with three who headed out on a 10-day tour and i get

00:04:47.780 the day before i leave um that morning when i dropped off callum i was dropping off at school

00:04:57.280 and his teacher said when do you leave just so i know so i can like give him some extra love and

00:05:03.800 know what's going on with me to cry talk even talking about it and i burst into tears because

00:05:09.880 i was leaving the next day and i was feeling very unhinged and i burst into tears and i was like

00:05:16.480 i leave tomorrow for 10 days you know blah blah blah and she was like oh i'm you know she didn't

00:05:23.400 say i'm sorry she didn't say oops i didn't mean to make you cry she grabbed me by the shoulders

00:05:28.080 and said you have got this oh my god i'm literally crying i can't even talk about it because it's

00:05:32.260 wonderful i'm gonna i'm gonna cry i'm gonna cry teachers are the best teachers are just the best

00:05:37.320 yes she grabs me by the shoulders and is like you have got this and she's she wasn't my son's

00:05:43.580 teacher last year but she was the classroom next door so she like does the after school like we

00:05:47.100 know this teacher well yeah grabs me by the shoulders you have been so she knows how long

00:05:51.000 i've been writing this book and working hard on it

00:05:53.400 you have got this you have been working so hard on this you deserve this you get out in the world

00:05:58.580 and show everyone this book like we are all so proud of you know what that was like okay gotta

00:06:04.840 go no i'm crying no i'm i'm ballistic i can't handle it so i take off and i get when i pick

00:06:15.400 calum up that afternoon she's gone because you know she's not an afternoon teacher i pick him

00:06:20.680 up and in his cubby is this giant green heart with that she has taken the time to print out

00:06:28.280 a picture of him and he's like hugging the heart that is in that is this heart note there's this

00:06:35.560 giant green heart and he's hugging the heart in the picture and then she printed it and put it

00:06:39.280 on the thing and it says like i love you so much mommy i'm so proud of you love callum and she then

00:06:48.140 also texted me a picture of him with it and was like you go off you are you know changing people's

00:06:55.980 lives with your recipes and with your message like i've got him i've got him like i'm gonna

00:07:01.160 hug him extra every morning it's just people who get it and take care of other women and take care

00:07:09.980 your kids and like that's just one tiny i forgot lol and us crying on 0.99

00:07:16.080 i literally just put on mascara it's fucked now it's fucked yeah i mean women get it and 0.99

00:07:25.500 understand and that was just a tiny example of the type of support that i got while i was away 0.99

00:07:31.440 i had friends george my husband was here alone with three there are three sons and that is not

00:07:39.260 easy i don't know i don't want that job i don't want to deal with our three our three kids for

00:07:44.020 10 days no but he was so you know so he's so absurdly supportive and the friends who were

00:07:51.560 checking in on him taking you know after day five he was like i got this i got this day five he's

00:07:57.660 the walls started to crumble and he was like i don't got this and so i called in the troops and

00:08:02.960 was like charlotte you pick manis up in this morning you know jess can you pick callum up

00:08:08.040 And I had friends who don't even go to the same school as my kids, picking my kids up, taking them for play dates because they were really missing me.

00:08:16.980 And it was really hard on George and on them.

00:08:19.920 And I just had people surrounding my family with, like, support.

00:08:24.120 And it was it's been really incredible.

00:08:28.220 It is.

00:08:29.080 It is.

00:08:29.420 And I would I would also say that by day five, any parent wouldn't have it.

00:08:33.760 Like, it's not a dad thing.

00:08:34.740 It's not a mom thing.

00:08:35.640 it's just like day five with three freaking kids thank you so much for saying that it is not

00:08:41.640 adapting he crushes being you know being on when when on the way i've been traveling a lot for work

00:08:50.740 this year and last year he traveled a lot for work and so we both are picking up on site it is so hard

00:08:57.780 to both be working parents in this society and both parents who travel a decent amount for work

00:09:05.020 and have to be away and have long hours and um yeah by day five and he never would have admitted

00:09:12.760 it but i was like how are you really and he was like oh my god this is not good not great and i

00:09:21.080 was like okay like great thank you for telling me like i have got 50 women in carmel valley who are

00:09:27.660 dying to help us because i will help them when they have to travel for work and like this is what

00:09:34.820 We live really far from our families. We're from North Carolina. We moved out to California because George was in the military. And we have a created community. I think there's this like, you know, it takes a village, it takes a village. And people in our modern day are like, well, where's my village? Like, where's my village? You have to work so hard to create your village and it is so worth it.

00:09:57.920 Like you have to be the one offering to take the kid to school when you see that somebody's struggling and there's one parent out of town or there's a sick parent or whatever.

00:10:08.060 And it takes a lot of work to build the type of village that we really need to succeed, especially with two parents or, you know, in any situation where you just need a little extra help.

00:10:18.440 And we have done that and it feels good to have those people who are here to take care of us.

00:10:25.060 Yeah, it feels amazing. But you bring up such a great point about like, yeah, we talk about the village all the time. Okay. And in fact, in Sicilian Inheritance, my novel, we talk a lot about like the old school village 100 years ago with these women in these like little Sicilian villages helping each other and how we've lost that.

00:10:43.180 But I do think when we talk about the village, it's like you just think the village is going to appear.

00:10:48.420 And it's so much work.

00:10:49.900 Like I put in so much work to building my community to saying, okay, like little things from I'm going to Costco today.

00:10:58.620 Can I text three friends and see what they need?

00:11:02.860 What is missing from their like lunch rotation of what can I get you?

00:11:06.980 The boys are loving this snack.

00:11:08.960 I'm going to grab you one.

00:11:10.220 I'm going to grab you one.

00:11:11.120 Exactly. 1.00

00:11:11.520 guess what that costs you $22 and she's then going to do it the next time she's at the store

00:11:15.800 exactly exactly and I feel like it is like those little daily things um and then the bigger ones

00:11:22.160 like oh you know what you guys haven't had a date night in a really long time have your kids sleep

00:11:27.020 over um like just give just give them to us or have the date night I'll put them to bed and then

00:11:31.500 come get them later like it's like all of those it's seeing people as much as it is just showing

00:11:37.480 up yes i feel like we could do an entire podcast episode just about how to show up better as like

00:11:43.340 a member of this village and as a good as a good i mean i like hate the term mom friend anytime i

00:11:49.900 call my friend like i actually will refer to them as like my mom friends they're like so

00:11:54.140 mom just mom friends we're your friend friends we're friends we're actual human friends but i

00:11:59.180 think you first at least with these friends i you first connect as mom friends and then you become

00:12:06.420 friends once you like get past that barrier and i get a lot of questions because i share i love

00:12:11.920 talking about friendship and female friendship and same girls supporting girls like i love talking

00:12:16.840 about on instagram and my newsletter anywhere and i get a lot of people who are like i love this so

00:12:22.540 much how did you do this how do i build this community and i always tell them like well a

00:12:27.840 once your kids are old enough to start liking another kid and you notice their mom like that's

00:12:33.380 a great point of attack that's a great that's a great it's a really good place to that's a great

00:12:38.320 place to find them yeah but it also is just so much work like you have to work you have to have

00:12:45.980 that conversation in the drop-off line and somebody says like oh i was visiting my mom this

00:12:51.380 weekend because she's sick two days later you text him you say how's your mom how are you what

00:12:55.900 like it takes a lot of I have to write myself I'm not a naturally like good gift giver and like

00:13:05.480 right right yeah yeah I'm a good I'm a great hype girl like that's one of my skills I'm really good

00:13:11.180 at like words of affirmation like I will hype you up but I am not great at like thinking of things

00:13:17.660 a week later I write myself in my calendar I'll say Jo mentioned that you know her brother is

00:13:23.100 having a hard time with follow-up and it's like seems contrived but that is how I can be a good

00:13:30.220 friend I thought these three kids I got a husband I got too much going on to like be a good friend

00:13:36.360 all without helping myself and so I like write myself a little note I say oh got the post-its

00:13:42.880 right here I stick the post-it in front of me on the wall I literally just wrote one that said

00:13:47.320 check in with ex-friend because they just got their first ozempic shot shot yeah I want to know

00:13:51.800 i want to know if she's throwing up or not yeah how you feeling how you feeling it yeah happy

00:13:56.540 doing this for you yeah just like you know all the things like oh yes a little much yes gosh i

00:14:04.080 have a friend it's on the same journey and i literally checked in with her yesterday how's

00:14:07.880 it all how's it feeling mentally how's it feeling mentally yeah exactly and then those are the

00:14:12.720 people who you know remember to buy five extra copies of your book and give them out as extra

00:14:18.020 gifts. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent, which by the way, buying books for teacher gifts

00:14:22.620 are a great gift. We, for teacher gifts, yeah. Fiction, nonfiction. We do, I do books because

00:14:32.920 I've got all my books. So I personalize the books anyway. Um, and then other people's books that I

00:14:36.600 get signed at book events. Cause if I go to a book event, I have them personalized, a bunch

00:14:39.980 of copies, a great gift. And then we get, um, StubHub gift cards. Cause all the teachers like

00:14:45.840 a lot like they want to go to a concert or they want like they want to do a thing and like they

00:14:49.340 don't want flowers and candy necessarily so like hub gift card hub gift card hot i know that is

00:14:57.360 cool you're a cool mom it's a new one that i just started trying yeah i'm into that i do

00:15:03.980 and this is controversial i posted a reel about this a couple years ago and i had no idea it'd

00:15:09.060 be controversial we do cash because i did a poll no i did like an instagram poll hey teachers

00:15:14.600 what do you want to help me out what do you actually want and it was of course no flowers

00:15:19.940 no candles no um no wine i don't like the same wine as you know no gift no baskets no uh no

00:15:27.040 ornaments they don't want ornaments around the holidays uh they have their own and they don't

00:15:32.060 want yours yeah they were like if you're comfortable like we are teachers we are underpaid and we have

00:15:38.820 you know you might get me a gift card to your favorite restaurant but then i have to get a

00:15:43.080 babysitter to go and like it's just not as easy and so they were like cash a cash gift card or

00:15:49.080 cash but even the visa gift cards can be sometimes like tricky to use and there's a fee and whatever

00:15:53.940 so they were like cold heart so we give cold heart cash we try to get like a nice you know

00:15:59.400 50 dollar bill or whatever the occasion calls for from the bank so that it's like a crisp

00:16:05.820 like yeah like brand like you don't want to give the like like all used money yeah just like that

00:16:11.600 needs to be crisp like if it's a gift yeah crisp bill from the bank in an envelope laid flat

00:16:17.040 and then a really nice note and that's what we did i don't know why that's gone that feels like

00:16:22.780 common sense to me like we have all we have also done cash tacky like you're they're not

00:16:27.840 cash is never tacky cash is not cash is never tacky it's a great gift it's great always if

00:16:33.980 people sometimes for my kids birthdays will just give you know great use money use money

00:16:40.900 dollar bill they're not going to be and i'm no no no no no nice i'm giving this to my kid we're

00:16:44.840 gonna like learn how to pick something out of the store or learn about money like i think that's

00:16:49.200 lovely it's lovely yeah cash cash cash cash cash always appropriate that's a really great place for

00:16:54.920 a break um you know because our sponsors our sponsors just essentially give us cash so we're

00:16:58.780 just gonna have a break we're right here perfect okay and we're back i thought that we would get

00:17:09.840 to the cookbook by now but right now we're just talking about how to be a better person in the

00:17:12.820 world i love this conversation so much because you know what i've been talking about the cookbook

00:17:17.680 a lot in fact i was with my friends this past weekend and we were kind of doing like an around

00:17:22.620 the table catch-up and we play rosebud thorn do you and your friends ever do that yeah yeah yeah

00:17:27.820 we do we do it we do it with my kids sometimes too yeah i've heard people doing that with their

00:17:32.980 kids we i need to start doing that rosebud thorn is like your rose is your high your bud is something

00:17:37.720 like that's about to bloom on the horizon your thorn is something that's needling you and it

00:17:41.520 basically turns into therapy with your friends you're like okay yeah thorn like let's fix it

00:17:45.560 like you know mornings are really hard with the kids and like you and your husband are fighting

00:17:49.800 like here's what we do it's amazing um and why don't wait and i i just completely lost my train

00:17:57.540 of thought of what oh because you were like i'm sick of talking about my book so like yeah yeah

00:18:01.480 and so i'm with my friends this past week and we're playing rosebud thorn and i was like i

00:18:05.900 honestly i was like can i skip around like i've been in self-promotion mode i was like do you

00:18:13.700 guys mind if i just don't talk about myself right now and they were like okay like let's come back

00:18:20.420 to that because that's you know the problem that you feel that way but like yes you you know this

00:18:26.440 is a space this is a space you can do whatever you want but yeah i love the beer and burp girl

00:18:30.540 Let's talk about how to be a better friend and room mom and all the things.

00:18:36.780 Room mom and all the things.

00:18:37.940 Well, you know, I also get Anne Helen Peterson's newsletter.

00:18:43.240 And she had a great one this week, which, you know, is related to her new book about friendships and community.

00:18:49.120 And the question was, did your parents have friends?

00:18:52.360 And so, like, did your parents model community for you?

00:18:55.280 And I got it on this weekend.

00:18:58.560 We were up in the Catskills this Labor Day, and we have a big community of people there.

00:19:03.120 Like, we had people—I mean, I'm tired and I'm puffy right now.

00:19:06.980 Oh, me too.

00:19:07.360 Oh, my God.

00:19:08.180 So tired, so puffy.

00:19:09.300 We had people at our house pretty much from noon every day till midnight.

00:19:14.960 Families, older couples without kids, you know, child-free folks, too.

00:19:21.860 like really like every iteration of friend that we have babies as young as two months kids as old

00:19:28.080 as 15 running essentially naked through my woods um just being weird everyone's just having fun

00:19:35.060 and being weird yeah and i'm just like i read um the culture study newsletter and it's like my

00:19:42.700 parents did not have that they did not model that for me and i was an only child and like this has

00:19:47.780 become such an important thing in my life it's like like the different members of my community

00:19:53.460 hosting people having them in our world and cultivating those friendships and it just the

00:19:59.100 newsletter hit me so hard because I was like I did not realize I was doing this because I didn't have

00:20:02.800 it as a kid yeah wow that's really really an interesting observation I grew up I have a huge

00:20:12.040 family. And so family is such an important part of my DNA. My cousins are my best friends. I have

00:20:19.820 like 12 female cousins. We talk all day, every day. Oh my gosh. See, I love that. I don't have

00:20:24.040 that because I was an only and like my cousins, my cousins were 20 years older than me. So like

00:20:28.760 we did not have that at all. It's funny when you grow up with some with cousins, you don't realize

00:20:34.480 how lucky you are. Every time I talk about my cousins, I get flooded with like, you need to

00:20:40.640 know how lucky you are to have this community of women in your life and like they are my sounding

00:20:46.200 board there we and we're like you we have you with your found village found village everyone

00:20:52.580 from a two-month-old you know brand new newborn mom to my cousin Lexi is 42 and has you know kids

00:21:01.140 in middle school going into high school and that is a really really like lucky thing to have a

00:21:07.900 built-in sounding board for anything you could ever have in your life like we can drop off was

00:21:14.020 really hard i'm first in of kindergarten what do i you know what's what do i do yeah the group chat

00:21:19.980 is flooded within seconds it's that's a really incredible thing it's great it's great and i will

00:21:25.240 say like and then being able to perform it in person i mean there was always someone willing

00:21:31.380 to grab a baby or willing to hear like you know you hear a crying kid across like the yard nick

00:21:39.540 my husband and i have created a fake german word for when you hear a crying child but it's not yours

00:21:43.980 and so you're relieved and you're like oh thank god i don't have to deal with that it's like

00:21:47.160 nicked nicked mine kinder nicked mine kinder but when you're when you're with your village you're 0.69

00:21:54.300 like no i'll go take your child i'll go grab your child like i don't yeah i know what that child 0.99

00:21:58.000 needs i'm gonna pick it up i'm gonna kiss it boo boo i'm gonna go get it the popsicle it's like

00:22:02.300 this is what you do yeah that is exact i just was on a weekend with our five couple friends

00:22:08.320 15 kids and that is the story of the weekend like there was 15 kids there was always at least one

00:22:15.280 kid crying and you know you look and you're like oh not mine or you're like oh mine but even if

00:22:23.400 it's not yours you okay do you need a snack oh you're bleeding okay let's deal with it all it's

00:22:28.920 all a community effort we got it's all a community effort yeah and i bet but again that's work like

00:22:33.860 it is like i am always like all right i'm gonna schedule this and like put in the labor and i do

00:22:38.400 think about it as if it is like as as important as my job job because um these are the people that

00:22:45.660 are that are going to support us for the rest of our lives and i don't know how long i'm going to

00:22:48.680 make books let's be honest how long are books going to be around how how many ideas are in

00:22:54.700 that nugget you know i mean so far who who knew that i was gonna write a murder mystery about

00:23:01.480 trad wives but you know who knew nobody saw that coming but here we are no one did my agents

00:23:07.740 definitely did it oh good popped up there um but yeah i mean i'd like to talk about how it is work

00:23:16.240 and how we have to put in the work, because I think it's very easy to get frustrated.

00:23:21.240 When I first moved to San Francisco, I didn't know anybody.

00:23:24.340 My husband had been there for a long time, but, like, his friends had older kids, and that was different.

00:23:28.840 I, like, was having my first kid.

00:23:31.000 And I literally found people, when I saw pregnant people or people with a new baby on the street,

00:23:35.520 I was like, do you like beer and sausage, and would you like to eat those things in my backyard on Friday?

00:23:40.160 And we had fire pits and beer and sausage every Friday, religiously.

00:23:44.320 that's so cool it was also work I mean it was also like that was effort yes and those making

00:23:52.740 new friends is so much work it's not light and easy you're having to like really put like you're

00:23:58.480 not being able to say in a round table with these new I don't want to talk to you I can't talk about

00:24:04.280 myself I don't want to talk about myself anymore you're having to talk about yourself and talk

00:24:09.260 about yourself yeah like this shameless sort of self-promotion that you have to be in when your

00:24:13.580 book is first out in the world like you and april be in right now yeah that's sweet that's the mode

00:24:19.860 that's what you're doing when you're in friend makers mode like you have to be let's tell you

00:24:23.740 all my stories all of my most generous and the most funny and like all the best versions of

00:24:29.040 yourself or how you have to show up it's exhausting it's a lot but then but that you know the payoff

00:24:34.940 is one like you have someone helping you with drop off and pick up and like all of the things

00:24:38.140 you need in the world but also like this weekend my friend casey came over after we just had so

00:24:43.020 many people at our house and we just laid on the grass like face down in the grass and I was like

00:24:47.480 I don't want to talk to you yeah and she's like me neither yeah don't don't speak don't don't

00:24:53.680 speak just I want you here yeah don't speak and it was great and I'm like yes yes you'll eventually

00:24:59.200 get there you'll or you won't and that's the other thing that I'm like I tell people too I'm like

00:25:03.100 it's okay not everyone you try to be friends with is gonna be your bestie oh yeah like this

00:25:07.880 is the process and like you'll get there it's dating you're not gonna it's dating no no no

00:25:13.780 you're not gonna marry everyone you're not gonna marry everybody you are not gonna marry everybody

00:25:18.480 no no um i just love the direction that this went in um so we talk about their books man we should

00:25:26.020 well oh please my my audience is like i want you to never say the sicilian inheritance again they're

00:25:30.200 like we got it we also got it for like our mom and our husband and like we did all the things for

00:25:36.040 you your book is bought how about like you can talk about the next book but like give us a 0.82

00:25:40.600 fucking break have some other people on the show um let's talk about me let's talk about you and 0.84

00:25:46.760 your book and so this book really came out of the sub stack like how did the subset come about and 0.96

00:25:53.340 for people that don't know what a sub stack is because i encounter people every day who still

00:25:56.540 don't know what a sub stack is um it's a newsletter it's an email newsletter that also has a website

00:26:01.900 Yes.

00:26:02.440 It's a newsletter that is also, like, a blog with a password.

00:26:06.200 Yeah.

00:26:06.600 It is.

00:26:07.000 It is.

00:26:07.400 If MailChimp and WordPress and Blogger had a baby.

00:26:11.020 Like, it's like, what is old is new again.

00:26:13.280 It is.

00:26:14.040 It's like this return to the long-form blogging days, but it's an email.

00:26:19.280 Which I love.

00:26:19.960 Which I love.

00:26:20.660 Yes.

00:26:21.000 And so you started this.

00:26:22.820 Yes.

00:26:23.700 And you're the most popular food sub-stack on the sub-stacks.

00:26:30.400 which is a huge on the internet yeah um the world wide web a huge deal and but how did you how did

00:26:37.900 you do that and because i find i find it so useful i find your your emails so useful tell me how you

00:26:43.880 built it yeah and how you cultivated community on the on the interwebs yeah i um i wrote a book

00:26:50.980 called just married in 2017 and the way that i wrote that book was not the typical cookbook

00:26:57.440 publishing story or it was not the current cookbook publishing story. So I have a friend

00:27:04.800 named Sarah, a friend from UNC, who is a cookbook or is an agent. She's an agent to many things,

00:27:10.020 but a lot of cookbooks. And I was working in a test kitchen in San Francisco and I was doing a

00:27:16.340 lot of freelance recipe development. And she basically called me and was like, do you want

00:27:20.680 to write a book for newlyweds by any chance? Like I just had a meeting with Chronicle Publishing,

00:27:25.440 a great cookbook publisher and they are looking for a newlywed with like an interesting story

00:27:30.640 my husband's a navy seal so like i get the interest that's interesting yeah an interesting

00:27:36.520 story to tell who wants to write who could write a cookbook and i was like yeah i want to write

00:27:42.860 that cookbook so i like write a proposal i they they were kind of like testing out a few different

00:27:47.860 people i won that and that is not the typical story nowadays and what i found out two years

00:27:54.580 later i so i basically i published just married it's awesome it still sells you can find it in

00:27:59.500 crate and barrel on the amazon all the places still it's a great cookbook two years later i'd

00:28:04.740 had i had my first son mattis um this was this in 2019 so i had my first son mattis and suddenly my

00:28:11.780 like passion the thing i loved cooking became something that i did not feel so passionate about

00:28:18.300 it was like exhausting and he you know i was a first-time mom like i felt like i had to be

00:28:24.000 holding him all the time, or if I put him down, he would cry. I couldn't figure it all out. I now

00:28:28.940 know that I had very bad postpartum anxiety, but then I did not know it. I was just like,

00:28:33.300 this is impossible. I don't like cooking anymore. And so suddenly I never felt like cooking. And

00:28:37.880 I'd always had friends be like, how do you motivate yourself to cook? I just hate it.

00:28:42.620 At the end of the day, all I do is order takeout. And I was like, what? What is you people's problem?

00:28:47.040 Cooking rocks. And finally I got it. I was like, oh, at the end of a busy day of momming and

00:28:53.900 freelance recipe developing like i do not feel like cooking at all for my family i'm like here's

00:29:00.540 some spaghetti and bread sauce like that's the best here's more yeah here's some more pasta

00:29:06.020 more as i like start climbing out of my postpartum anxiety full i'm like oh i'm okay like i i can

00:29:14.920 come back to cooking but i am now going to be cooking a very different type of recipe it's

00:29:19.780 going to be a lot quicker a lot easier use a lot less dishes i'm not doing these like project cooks

00:29:25.340 that i used to i need to like cook in a whole new way and so i came up with this concept for a

00:29:30.600 cookbook called what to cook when you don't feel like cooking and i was like this is brilliant this

00:29:34.740 is gonna break this is gonna break the the charts like this is the best concept ever and i pitched

00:29:40.440 it to everyone including chronicle who had the right of first refusal on my next book so i pitched

00:29:46.440 it to you know chronicle random house tin speed all the places and they all said no because in

00:29:52.260 just that short time from 2017 to 2019 the cookbook and like the digital landscape had changed so much

00:29:59.920 that you now had to have your own audience to get a cookbook deal like they that's how they sell

00:30:07.660 cookbooks now that's how publishers sell cookbooks is that the writer has their own audience to sell

00:30:14.500 it too and that makes great sense it makes me sense i mean it's also how you sell books yeah

00:30:19.420 it's good business i mean yeah like i have to have a platform yeah you have to have you have

00:30:24.260 to have a platform but you know in 2012 platforms didn't exist like at most maybe they'd love if

00:30:32.320 you like had a restaurant where you could sell or like they gave you a big name or like maybe you

00:30:36.940 had a segment a few times a year on you know a big morning show but like the internet having an

00:30:43.920 internet platform didn't exist so that wasn't how you got a cookbook deal now it is now it is and

00:30:49.980 and with fiction with fiction writers also you have to i mean you guys are like expected to be

00:30:59.920 full-time content creators also i'm a full-time i'm a full-time content creator of course i mean

00:31:04.300 i have i essentially have a media company like that's what i say all the time we are expected

00:31:07.900 to run our own media companies now and again that's good business like we can't fault the

00:31:13.900 publishing industry but in 2019 when i had 2000 instagram followers and couldn't get a cookbook

00:31:19.120 deal i was so bereft about this i was like this makes no sense like these big you know people who

00:31:27.120 have cook have food blogs but like don't know how to correctly write recipes they're writing things

00:31:31.980 all out of order and they're getting cookbook deals and i can't like i'm a professional recipe

00:31:36.560 developer i like worked in test kitchens i was like i'm a professional they're not i can't get

00:31:40.400 and of course i was just salty because i couldn't get a cookbook deal as well you should yeah but

00:31:45.000 you also totally should have been because i have like look i've looked at a lot like you know

00:31:49.040 celebrities that are like i'm gonna write a novel now and i'm like really oh same in the cookbook

00:31:54.480 world you're like you know this is a job so yeah but now i'm like fine i'm like you have to pivot

00:32:01.360 and i think as women like we just see that and we do that and i'm like all right fine i guess i have

00:32:06.100 to become a brand an influencer and yeah this is what i do yeah so i don't get the deal the

00:32:11.960 proposal just like dies i'm like okay never mind and i start slow i 2020 happens all of a sudden

00:32:20.460 we're all stuck in our houses all of my freelance recipe development jobs go away so suddenly i have

00:32:25.700 time i mean have time like time with a toddler during covid but i did not have any other work

00:32:34.360 going on because all of my freelance you know magazine food writing and brand food writing

00:32:39.920 gigs went away because they were like we don't know how to talk about food during a pandemic like

00:32:43.600 hard pause on everything i was like okay i have no money no income coming in this is my shot to like

00:32:49.720 put out a ton of content for free and like finally start building that community that i've been

00:32:55.400 wanting to but just haven't had the time or energy to yeah so i just started like ranking recipes and

00:33:02.320 content on Instagram, I first was like, okay, you know, I'm just going to share food, food,

00:33:08.600 food, food, food, food. And that was great. But I had a toddler and I was pregnant and I was like

00:33:13.560 trying to keep those out of it. I was like, you know, they don't want to hear about that. They

00:33:17.640 only want food. And when I really started to grow my audience was when it got impossible because I

00:33:23.640 was home with this toddler at all times to not sort of include motherhood and parenting and

00:33:29.080 pregnancy in my content and I started talking about it and that's when I started to see real

00:33:33.860 growth because it's not just people wanting to hear about like here's a quick and easy recipe

00:33:38.460 they want to hear like why does that fit into my life and they want to relate to you and like

00:33:42.600 that is my community is a ton of young moms I also have a ton of older moms who love like

00:33:50.340 reflecting back on this time in their life I also have a ton of young people who don't have families 0.96

00:33:53.800 yet who just think it's funny and entertaining to see my shit show um so i love and i mean i'm 0.94

00:34:01.360 also i think our kids are like nearly the same age yeah i think we have five three five three 0.96

00:34:05.600 ones yeah yeah yeah we're in the same world so i started to really grow then and as i grew i started

00:34:12.980 to get tons of this feedback again that was like i just never feel like cooking i'm a busy mom i

00:34:17.460 never feel like cooking i'm working all day and homeschooling the kids because this is you know

00:34:22.440 we're now in like May, 2020. I never feel like cooking. And I was like, oh, remember that

00:34:27.980 proposal from last year? Like that could be, I could do that. Like maybe I do that on my own.

00:34:34.620 Maybe I do it as an ebook. Maybe I do it as a YouTube series. Like how do I, that, that what

00:34:40.360 to cook when you don't feel like cooking. I just loved that title and that name. And I knew it had

00:34:45.880 potential, but it did not at this time have potential as a cookbook. And about this, I was

00:34:51.420 listening to a ton of like you know I didn't know how to be like an internet person so I'm listening

00:34:55.580 to like podcasts like how to be a creator how to what to do how to make money as a creator

00:34:59.300 and one of them brought up Substack and Substack at this time was a really small thing and it is

00:35:05.960 not the platform that it is today and it was talking about how you can monetize a newsletter

00:35:11.940 and I was like oh my people are like tired busy people they don't want to download Patreon and

00:35:17.860 like have to put in an password they do not want another app oh my god no i don't know if your kids

00:35:23.420 schools all have apps now but of course they do oh my god i lost my mind this morning okay

00:35:28.260 our soccer team has an end yeah no i actually lost my mind this morning um when i realized that

00:35:34.300 because we have kids this is the first year this is our heart i think this is our hardest year so

00:35:38.400 far it will be our hardest year because we have one kid we have the second grader who's actually

00:35:43.080 in public school yeah and then we have one year left of pk and then the baby is starting something

00:35:49.780 but she's in a different school because it was right across the street and i wanted to like take

00:35:53.460 the spot when the spot opened up and it's three different three different platforms three different

00:35:58.080 platforms i've logged in i mean i just cried i just cried this morning yeah that was me this

00:36:02.300 morning and i was trying to go to the gym and i couldn't even find that the gym has an app and

00:36:07.520 now the gym has an app and the gym didn't have an app before and now the gym has an app and yes

00:36:12.440 that also makes me cry soccer gym meets two different schools like i'm like so yeah yeah

00:36:18.980 so great case study for the fact that i was like we do not need another app my people are busy

00:36:26.120 they love good food but they do not particularly love cooking it's not their release it's not their

00:36:31.600 passion it's not how they like find zen at the end of a busy work day they just need an email

00:36:36.340 they need an email to arrive they'll print it out they'll save it they'll forward it to their

00:36:40.380 husband maybe that's what they need they need an email so i was like okay wow i can monetize i can

00:36:45.540 make money through a newsletter okay so that's how i found substack and i launched what to cook

00:36:52.020 we don't feel like cooking exactly as i was going to launch the cookbook um really easy recipes

00:36:59.360 usually 10 ingredients or less they always take under an hour they minimize they like dirty as

00:37:05.020 few dishes as possible um very minimal stress it's written like i'm standing in the kitchen with you

00:37:11.120 we're drinking glass of wine and we're like i i'm not like sear the steak i'm like okay put oil in

00:37:18.080 the pan you need it to get really hot because otherwise if you put the steak in it's going to

00:37:22.700 get gray but if you get it really hot then when you put it in it's going to get this nice golden

00:37:26.860 brown crust because if you don't love that's what i need to know what sear means i don't want to

00:37:31.300 look up sear i'm not gonna look at the word sear because i forgot i'm sure that i knew it literally

00:37:35.300 but i don't know one of my like tenants and like it's in my kind of because i have an editor who i

00:37:41.240 work with one of our like brand philosophies is like no one should ever have to google anything

00:37:46.640 so if this is we'll like read a recipe to our husbands or to a friend who's with us

00:37:51.220 and be like you know sear the chicken and if they are like what's sear the chicken meat we

00:37:56.520 write out the exact, you know, braise the meat. No, we're not braising meat. We're

00:38:01.280 cooking the meat in a liquidy bath until it falls apart. Yes. Thank you. I'm not going to look up

00:38:08.100 brains either. I know. I'm so basic. Yes. Google something while I'm cooking dinner. I already

00:38:13.020 don't feel like doing this. What is the one that made me want to die the other day? It was whatever

00:38:17.240 you do to tomatoes where you put them in an ice bath or you put them in hot water and then you

00:38:21.780 But then I shock them.

00:38:23.400 And I was just like, that sounds dirty.

00:38:25.460 Just tell me to put it in.

00:38:26.140 That sounds dirty.

00:38:27.000 Tell me to put it in.

00:38:27.840 Sounds like something I don't understand.

00:38:29.000 Yes.

00:38:29.140 And now I'm frustrated because I feel like I'm behind and I'm so sorry to say something. 0.76

00:38:33.500 I feel dumb. 0.98

00:38:33.680 I feel dumb. 0.99

00:38:34.720 I'm just trying to cook friggin' dinner. 0.99

00:38:37.060 So. 0.84

00:38:37.840 Here.

00:38:38.100 All right.

00:38:38.280 We're going to take one more quick break.

00:38:39.280 One more quick break.

00:38:39.780 Oh, yeah.

00:38:40.360 And then we're going to get to how the substack turns into what it is.

00:38:45.860 Okay.

00:38:51.780 all right and we we're back we're back you are you're writing you're writing this email you're

00:39:03.840 sending it out and people are freaking loving it i mean it went bananas because you're talking to

00:39:07.940 them like a normal human being yeah so i basically and it's funny looking back i launched this i

00:39:14.640 started getting like collecting newsletter subscribers i was like hey i'm gonna start

00:39:19.540 sharing recipes via a newsletter instead of just in the caption of recipes because like it's

00:39:25.420 impossible to print out it's impossible to use and people are like yes thank god like i hate

00:39:29.300 looking at recipes on instagram so i started i like introduced people to this idea of like i'm

00:39:34.420 gonna send you recipes via an email for about for a couple of months and then i transitioned to the

00:39:42.420 paid platform i did a big like sort of launch like this is what i'm doing i'm i'm instead of

00:39:48.720 a cookbook. It's a newsletter. And it's going to be like one really well-tested, easy recipe a week.

00:39:54.140 And it immediately clicked with my people. And at this time, I probably had 10,000 Instagram

00:39:59.760 followers. And they were like, wow, thank you. That is a service. That is really helpful. And

00:40:04.960 so probably overnight, I got like 500 paid subscribers. Oh my gosh. Amazing.

00:40:09.740 Whoa. And I was like, at first, I saw what to cook. We don't feel like cooking the newsletter.

00:40:14.620 I was like, this will be a great like side hustle. Like once my freelance recipe development gigs

00:40:18.620 are back, like this will be a great, like, you know, I'm a freelancer, like this will be a great

00:40:22.560 constant income stream, like a couple thousand dollars a month, like great side hustle. And I

00:40:28.580 very quickly realized that it had the potential to be something much bigger. And within a couple

00:40:35.240 of months I was having to hire the editor that I was just talking about because it was growing

00:40:39.940 really, really fast. And I realized like, whoa, I can't, this is like a cookbook now. Like I can't,

00:40:44.620 have an ingredient missing and have 10,000 people cooking it. And then like, I need like a full team

00:40:52.040 here. So I really staffed up and really made it my full focus. And it is like, it is my main

00:41:00.760 income stream now today, three and a half years later, I launched it in December of 2020. So

00:41:06.420 we're coming up on four years. That's four years. Two years in, it was, it had climbed to like the

00:41:12.820 number three maybe food and drink juice that are on sub stack and i started getting reached out to

00:41:20.480 by editors and i was like uh by by cookbook editors and i was like well this is like

00:41:25.420 because i literally when i launched it oh i got it i said this whole like this didn't get a cook

00:41:33.300 like i couldn't get a cookbook deal but i'm launching it this way like you know kind of

00:41:37.200 like f publishers like who needs them anyway was like my and then i was like oh interesting

00:41:42.500 like actually this still would be a really great cookbook uh i now at the time when i didn't get

00:41:48.960 the cookbook deal i was so salty about it like i said but now i really get it like it would not

00:41:54.860 have been the same book if i had written it four years ago i now have all this valuable like

00:42:00.100 community input on my recipes and like now i know what really clicks with people from doing the

00:42:05.140 newsletter for three years so like i wrote the book at the perfect time yes i got the deal yeah

00:42:11.040 a couple of years ago and it it came out august 12th and it is the it's like a hard back physical

00:42:17.740 form of the newsletter the same they're under an hour they're easy they use like lots of little

00:42:24.600 hacks and things to dirty less dishes like we're never using like multiple skillets for a single

00:42:30.240 recipe we're like somehow wiping it out halfway through reusing the same thing like it's really

00:42:35.800 a huge focus on um just ease and ease of cleanup and it's it's out in the world now today when we're

00:42:45.260 when we're recording this it's been out for three weeks and it's really really freaking and it's a

00:42:50.940 new york times bestseller uh which is huge huge it's a big deal a big deal i know yeah and that

00:42:59.260 is such a testament i mean it's so cool because these lists so like you know the new york times

00:43:06.160 the us the what is it usa today like they don't mean everything but they mean things they mean

00:43:11.420 things and they're a great validation of your hard work and they're really a great validation

00:43:17.540 of the what we started out this podcast talking about like our irl communities like the people

00:43:25.180 who pick up our kids when we cannot and the teachers who lift us up when we cannot be there

00:43:30.940 for our kids physically we started talking about the community and now this community this like

00:43:38.220 digital community that i built through the newsletter it's such an incredible the new

00:43:43.920 york times bestseller thing is like wow you guys like actually showed up and like bought this book

00:43:49.200 and like not just bought the book once like you were saying i think before we started recording

00:43:53.040 like you've bought it for five people and like that is incredible and that's because you're

00:43:58.900 part of this community and like support me and support the book and know that you can trust me

00:44:03.980 and that's why hitting things like the new york times bestseller list feels so good because it's

00:44:08.760 like yes okay it's validation it's validation and also let's see let's also be honest you know when

00:44:13.960 you talk about how do books find their audience the first wave is you and your audience and the

00:44:21.400 second wave is a word of mouth from your people and the third wave is they're going to find it

00:44:26.960 on those lists and they're going to find it through recommendations from bookstores and

00:44:31.760 other places that carry books and that list the list subway with those people so like subway and

00:44:36.760 when they're strolling the aisles of barnes and noble and they see that new york times bestseller

00:44:41.580 sticker on a book they go oh oh a lot of people okay a lot of people trust this person a lot of

00:44:47.600 trust this person. That salt, that feels good. Yes, as well it should. And the book is so good.

00:44:53.320 And I think it's such a nice companion to the newsletter because, and I say this all the time

00:44:59.040 too, there are different audiences for different things. Sometimes people just want to listen to

00:45:04.040 one of my podcasts or they want to listen to my audio book, but then they often still buy the

00:45:08.900 hardcover of my book because I really enjoy thumbing through a cookbook to get ideas. I liken

00:45:17.200 it to when i really miss block blockbuster videos um i don't i date myself every time i say that but

00:45:23.780 i'm like i loved the serendipity of walking through a freaking blockbuster and being like

00:45:30.220 you know what i do want to watch bill and ted's excellent adventure and talk to the clerk and

00:45:35.200 being like i'm talking to the clerk seeing the clerk's recommendations oh yes totally i like

00:45:42.100 That is how thumbing through a cookbook feels to me.

00:45:46.900 I'm like, oh, I didn't know that I wanted this this week, but now I do.

00:45:52.180 And so I think it just expands the audience.

00:45:56.380 Yeah, reading the stories and all of the things.

00:45:58.560 So it's such a nice companion.

00:46:00.980 It's such a great way to meet your audience where they're at at different times, right?

00:46:06.840 And that's what I think about when I think about creating content.

00:46:09.240 Like, when do people want me, much in the same way that we talked about community, like, when do people want me to show up for them and how?

00:46:17.540 Yeah, I was so nervous about the book because I was like, wait, I've now gotten my people used to this email.

00:46:27.480 And I really encourage people to cook the weekly.

00:46:31.460 So my recipes come on one recipe a week.

00:46:34.180 And I really encourage them to cook it that week.

00:46:36.140 I'm like, if you don't cook it this week, you're going to forget about it.

00:46:38.180 And you're missing out on the opportunity to like maybe discover a new recipe, a new

00:46:42.740 flavor profile your family will love.

00:46:44.320 It's very seasonal because it's once a week.

00:46:48.100 So that's a cool thing about the newsletter versus the cookbook is that I'm able to tell

00:46:51.640 you like what's good right now.

00:46:54.700 And so I was nervous.

00:46:55.760 I was like, people have gotten used to this delivery form.

00:46:58.860 But what I'm hearing is the same thing you're saying is like, it's a different need state.

00:47:02.880 Like I go to the newsletter when, you know, for like a weekly inspiration, but I love thumbing through the cookbook for like, oh, I never would have thought of that.

00:47:13.060 Like, oh, I didn't know that's what I needed.

00:47:15.180 Yes.

00:47:15.860 And the newsletter, one of the like core things about the newsletter is I list a substitution for every single ingredient.

00:47:21.660 And that was a byproduct of COVID that was when grocery stores like would be out of chicken breasts for two weeks.

00:47:28.900 And you were like, okay, so I can't cook that recipe.

00:47:31.260 so i would say like yeah you can you can use pork to the wine cook it this way you can use

00:47:35.280 flake steak cook it this way you could even use shrimp cook it this way vegetarian cook it this

00:47:39.260 way so i have a vegetarian a gluten-free all these swaps and substitutions for on every single recipe

00:47:45.420 and in a cookbook you can't do that my editor was like the cookbook will be bigger than it'll be a

00:47:50.640 thousand pages you can't it'll be weird like nobody wants to like look at the recipe and then flip and

00:47:55.260 have like a sub like it's redundant so we have a big swaps and subs section at the beginning that

00:48:01.040 like gives you those tools but we don't have it on everyone and what i'm hearing from my

00:48:05.560 people who are both subscribers the newsletter and now cookbook owners is they're like it's really

00:48:11.620 crazy like i now know all the subs that you do like they're like i hear you in my head like

00:48:17.240 yeah like on this shrimp thing i'm like oh my dad doesn't eat shrimp what else can i do and i'm

00:48:21.220 they're like i hear you in my head saying like just cube up chicken like just you know use

00:48:26.340 cannellini beans instead so they're like i know now and so i like that it has this like companion

00:48:31.940 piece and i can kind of like you know talk about the cookbook and the newsletter like hey here's

00:48:37.040 a riff on that recipe it's it's been really fun and cool yeah no it's great it's great i love it

00:48:44.340 i love the newsletter i i told you i was raving on instagram the other day about your chilled

00:48:48.380 tomato soup which we won't call gazpacho but um it was the best i had never i had never known i

00:48:57.760 was supposed to add bread to gazpacho which is maybe a super basic thing okay but i didn't know

00:49:02.660 salmarejo is when you add the bread that's when it goes from gazpacho to salmarejo and but i also

00:49:10.100 added some things that are more gazpacho-y than salmarejo-y so it was sent by the subtitle if

00:49:15.580 you'll recall was i'm not a gazpacho not quite a salmerejo yes yes and i made it britney lyric

00:49:22.380 yeah yeah i made it yeah i made it right away made it right away and then i made it for everyone

00:49:28.620 this weekend during labor day happy yes and then forwarded it to everyone because everyone's like

00:49:35.040 this is so good but and then that's the great use case for the newsletter is i can be like oh i'm

00:49:39.380 just gonna look this up here it is and you should also subscribe yes and you're sitting at the

00:49:43.700 barbecue and you can't say oh it's from this cookbook like i'll send you a picture because

00:49:48.100 then you forget unless you leave yourself a friendship post-it note but if you're sending

00:49:51.800 the barbecue that's what i get i mean i honestly the newsletter growth is the coolest thing because

00:49:56.720 i have never done like a single dollar of advertising and it's really really huge and

00:50:02.440 it's entirely people like you at the barbecue it's so good i'll forward you the recipe and i

00:50:08.360 love that i think i stay in the top note because it's a paid newsletter right like you have to pay

00:50:13.460 to get the recipes but i say like please forward this to your friends like i don't care if you

00:50:18.460 forward them a paid newsletter like if they love it if they make it and they love it and they like

00:50:22.520 the way i write recipes they'll subscribe that's a lot of sure yes yes yeah a hundred percent a

00:50:29.380 hundred percent and like you and you really truly have created your own mint like and it's not many

00:50:35.600 but like your own media empire your own brand and like that used to be reserved for people like

00:50:39.600 martha stewart okay like it just for these celebrities that had a massive organization

00:50:45.400 behind them and now it's kind of all of us have to do it uh but we also have so much more control

00:50:52.680 because you know i'm working so many hours a week right but also on my time and so i can do pickups

00:50:59.180 and drop-offs and if there's if there's a medical emergency i am there and yep and guess what if

00:51:04.840 there's a medical emergency or a drop-off emergency whatever and we don't get the real

00:51:09.020 posted that day it's fine the world's not gonna end if you don't see my instagram reel or if my

00:51:15.720 podcast doesn't go live like it's just not okay and it's so easy as these content creators who

00:51:22.080 like we we give ourselves all of these deadlines right and even like sponsored content like i'm so

00:51:28.220 sorry that this ad for distribution didn't go up but like i had a sick kid home and so it's nice

00:51:35.880 to to have that control but it's also a ton of work like so much work i mean it's a it's a

00:51:41.720 massive hustle a massive editors and we're writers and we're photographers and we're

00:51:45.880 videographers and we're voiceover actresses voiceover actresses and like i make all i make

00:51:53.600 all of the things i mean i make the podcast like i just like it is you make your own podcast you

00:51:58.360 edit your own podcast i do i have my own podcast i'm sorry for all the times that i was like wait

00:52:02.760 what did i just say hold on so i know you have to go back and edit it i mean i know i know how

00:52:08.060 it works like i was just like it's so also i would do i've made i mean i've been making podcasts and

00:52:13.160 for eight years now and so like i would have to qa a podcast anyway um and so i can do one

00:52:21.060 listening qa that's so impressive at the same time yeah and also i'm gonna i'm gonna edit this while

00:52:26.680 i get my nails done um in a little bit because i'm a multitasker and i'm going to paris tomorrow

00:52:31.660 so i like have to go get my toes done it's so important yes hey well get out of here then i'm

00:52:38.100 getting i'm leaving i'm just leaving you now but i mean the well the great thing is like i also like

00:52:41.560 love the assurance of like i'm going to paris one for my girlfriend's 50th birthday and also

00:52:45.800 my new novel set in paris like i have to go research things in paris um and my kids are now

00:52:53.560 i know i mean i love it you deserve it just for the girls trip yeah but i do love i mean that's

00:53:01.000 the other great thing about being our own media impact is that every work trip or every fun trip

00:53:08.320 is every fun trip is content okay everything is all content and look i mean i can't write this

00:53:15.080 novel about an art heist set in paris and joe van gogh unless i'm actually in paris you really

00:53:21.640 can't no that would be terrible i wouldn't you read that i'd be like you shouldn't no you should

00:53:26.300 never take me down the streets what cafes are we in i don't believe it exactly no i mean the whole

00:53:31.120 thing like it's all going in the book it's all going in the book people that is so exciting yeah

00:53:35.320 yeah so i gotta go i gotta get my toes painted get out of here right now thank you for having

00:53:39.220 me this this is so fun let's talk about having better friends once a week yeah that was really

00:53:43.960 totally great love it good night lady

00:53:56.300 Transcription by CastingWords

00:54:26.300 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 05, 2024

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