Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - How to Pivot in 2025

00:00:00.000 Hey, y'all. Joe here, and you are listening to Under the Influence. I was recently rereading

00:00:13.160 Hannah Rosen's book, The End of Men. It's a great one. It's from 2012. You should read

00:00:20.280 it if you haven't. Hannah is a goddamn genius, okay? She describes the dynamic between what 0.99

00:00:27.360 she calls the plastic woman and the cardboard man. Her argument is that women in the past 60 years 0.92

00:00:35.220 have been infinitely flexible and responsive to all of the massive changes in the world,

00:00:41.740 whereas men pretty much stay the same. And I think about that a lot because I do believe that women

00:00:49.740 are just better at pivoting. When we get fired or we have to take a pause for motherhood, 1.00

00:00:55.360 we figure out how to come back in a new way. Whereas I see a lot of men lose their jobs

00:01:03.880 and then just kind of wallow in why the world changed out from underneath them.

00:01:12.220 I think that this rings more true than ever. My friend Jessica Gross also just wrote about this

00:01:18.820 in the New York Times in her wonderful column. Check that out. I'm going to put it in the show

00:01:24.180 notes. And today's episode builds on that. It's also meant to inspire a lot of us as we look

00:01:30.480 forward to 2025. Today, we're actually talking to my very best friend in the entire world,

00:01:36.820 Jackie Cascarano, a woman that I met when I was 18 years old, and the nerdiest girl at sorority

00:01:43.480 rush. And she was a fancy New Yorker who took me under her wing, but not too fancy, not like

00:01:49.420 annoyingly fancy. And we've been friends this whole time. We are both only children, which means we

00:01:56.480 are as close as sisters. And I've watched Jackie evolve her career in a lot of different ways over 0.92

00:02:01.920 the years. But what she's done in the last year is really her biggest pivot ever. And it's been

00:02:09.420 hard. I've watched her put in the work here. And I've watched her suffer through figuring out how

00:02:16.040 to make this work for her. She's also brilliantly coaching other women on how they can pivot, 1.00

00:02:22.580 how they can find a new purpose and a new career in the second half of their lives.

00:02:27.200 I love this conversation. And I love Jackie. It's very fun to have one of your best friends

00:02:32.300 on the show. It really is. Hi, Jackie. Hello, Joe Piaz. You're speaking to me in your very

00:02:45.540 professional podcast voice. I wonder if your audience knows that you don't sound like this

00:02:49.520 all the time. Do you think they know? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Well, sometimes

00:02:55.060 I lose it sometimes. Like I start out, I start out in podcast voice and then, and then I eventually

00:03:00.540 get Joe from Philly by the end of it, depending on what I'm talking about. That's beautiful. I

00:03:06.860 love your voice. I'm so delighted to be here with you. I'm very delighted to be here with you. I

00:03:11.340 told the audience in our introduction that you are my my very best friend in the entire world

00:03:15.700 and uh i just love you i miss you i love you i miss you too i miss you too i we do we will

00:03:22.440 figure out we'll figure out a trip to take together very soon yeah because we had our epic

00:03:27.020 adventure last year our epic adventure in sicily if you listened if you listened to the sicilian

00:03:31.840 inheritance podcast you are familiar with jackie yes i am the star of the show you are the star of

00:03:36.120 the show really you really are it's really just you it's really just jackie and joe's adventures

00:03:40.140 in Sicily where we solved a murder. We did. We solved that. We solved that shit. Solved that

00:03:47.360 shit. But we're not on the podcast to talk about our almost 30-year friendship today. We are here 0.99

00:03:55.320 to talk about your complete life pivot and transition. My audience really wants to hear

00:04:04.760 about women who have kind of blown up their lives and reinvented themselves in middle age,

00:04:10.800 which is what we're in. We're in middle age, right? We are squarely in the middle of our 40s. 0.97

00:04:15.740 Squarely and happy to be here. You could not pay me a million dollars to be in my 20s.

00:04:19.280 Oh, God, you could not pay me a million dollars to be in my 20s. I look at these 20-somethings 0.98

00:04:25.200 on the TikTok, when I go on the TikTok, and I'm like, you are all so deeply unhappy. 0.74

00:04:29.900 They really are. And, you know, it's funny because-

00:04:33.100 I was. Look, I was also, I was deeply unhappy. And I was seeking something. And then whenever

00:04:37.260 people really wise people gave me advice, I was like, that's dumb. That's so dumb. I know better. 1.00

00:04:43.840 I'm so smart. I'm so much smarter. I'm so much smarter than that person. I'm so much smarter

00:04:47.600 than these old ladies who are trying to tell me how to live my life. And now we're these old 1.00

00:04:52.280 ladies. I do think it's worse now, though. I do think that social media has made it worse. I mean,

00:04:57.420 we were we were deluged with magazines there was so much diet culture and wellness culture and 0.96

00:05:04.840 crap crap about how to be a woman but you you kind of picked your spots it's like i'm not gonna have 0.95

00:05:10.840 a magazine in my hand all the time right but and now every time you open your phone it's like 1.00

00:05:16.740 do you want a nine pack of abs it just seems terrible a deluge of that

00:05:24.360 of self-esteem attacks at all times. A deluge of self-esteem attacks. And so anyway, that's just,

00:05:30.720 that's, we could do a whole other podcast on how I think it sucks to be a chick in your 20s right 0.94

00:05:34.760 now. Sorry, sorry generation. I hope that it gets better for, for our girls. Jackie has three girls 1.00

00:05:41.600 who are wonderful. Three daughters. And, but no, today we're talking about your career pivot

00:05:48.460 and how you and how you did this and what it looks like and was it was it scary as fuck

00:05:55.100 yeah uh yes it was so i have had several career pivots which we all have at this point right 0.87

00:06:04.200 i feel like i've had 27 jobs since i graduated from college right and that is because we are

00:06:09.880 women and we're good at pivoting we are and if you look at men men compared to women have far

00:06:16.900 it's their their career paths are so much more linear because so much more we are doing the

00:06:22.460 caretaking and we are doing the caregiving um and we could talk about the patriarchy but that's

00:06:27.400 another that's a that's another conversation another conversation yes my career path has

00:06:33.980 a bunch of pivots the first one was in the early 2000s uh yeah 2008 2010 i was an attorney i

00:06:43.380 practiced law for several years, decided I did not like being an attorney and decided a lot of

00:06:49.580 attorneys decide they don't like attorneys. I fell into a practice area that was not well suited for

00:06:54.900 my personality. So I am a lover, counselor, coach type. And I ended up being a litigator,

00:07:02.300 which basically is like the most adversarial antagonistic practice area you could you could

00:07:07.480 possibly do. Totally. I decided pretty quickly after a couple of years of practice that I wanted

00:07:13.580 to do career advising for lawyers. I realized this because I did some executive recruiting

00:07:19.980 for lawyers, which I liked. And then I ended up working at two law schools. So I worked at

00:07:24.900 Notre Dame Law School. I told my husband, I said, he was an entrepreneur. He could work from

00:07:32.200 anywhere. And I said, I'm going to apply to a bunch of jobs at law schools across the country.

00:07:38.220 Are you game to move with me anywhere I get a job? And he said, yeah. We had a one-year-old

00:07:43.280 daughter. I got a job at Notre Dame Law School. We moved to South Bend, Indiana. We lived there

00:07:48.760 for two years. I'm from New York City. I grew up in New York City. South Bend was really very

00:07:54.660 different. Very different. Very different. Very small. I think there are more restaurants now,

00:08:00.980 that like 10 years ago, there were like three restaurants that you would want to go to.

00:08:05.640 But I will say it was such a cool, lovely little chapter. It was so cool. So we lived in South

00:08:11.500 Bend and then I ended up working in Vanderbilt Law School. Which is in Nashville. Which is in

00:08:16.700 Nashville. Which is where you are now. We've been here for 11 years and I did career advising for

00:08:22.260 lawyers and law students. So my career coaching career really started around 2010 when I was

00:08:31.280 doing that at those two law schools. I did that for a while and then had several children.

00:08:38.920 And after I had my third daughter, I left Vanderbilt and I ended up working at Lucy's

00:08:45.860 and the other girls' school. So I worked at the girls' school.

00:08:49.780 And you were a college counselor.

00:08:50.760 I did college counseling for several years, and I did not really choose that.

00:09:00.240 I'll say it that way.

00:09:01.300 I fell into that particular job because it was convenient.

00:09:07.200 It was ideal for my family.

00:09:10.480 Never in one million bajillion years would I have ever expected to work in a high school

00:09:16.640 of a college counselor.

00:09:18.940 Right.

00:09:19.120 It was a beautiful chapter.

00:09:20.320 So I look back on it and I'm like, that was amazing. That was so lovely. It was great. But it was not the realization of my career goals. I'll just put it that way.

00:09:30.920 Right, right. Because I was choosing something that worked well for my family at the time.

00:09:37.560 As I said, my husband's an entrepreneur. So our finances for a couple of years, for a good number of years, as you know, Joe, were up and down, up and down.

00:09:46.300 Yeah, which was stressful. It's so stressful.

00:09:49.280 It really is.

00:09:50.040 I mean, there actually are support groups for entrepreneur spouses. 0.94

00:09:54.900 Shut up, really?

00:09:55.780 Yeah, there really are. 1.00

00:09:56.460 Because you need it.

00:09:58.040 And for me, I was like, well, I need a steady job.

00:10:01.460 I need something that's going to be conducive to my responsibilities as a mother.

00:10:08.860 So I ended up working at their school.

00:10:11.420 And it was...

00:10:12.440 And also something with health insurance.

00:10:14.200 And health insurance and tuition discount.

00:10:15.860 And tuition discount.

00:10:16.820 Oh, my gosh.

00:10:17.520 this is a fancy fancy school yeah and i have three of them right right so i ended up working there

00:10:22.320 and it was a wonderful it was a wonderful chapter again i knew it was going to be temporary and i

00:10:27.660 knew that um i didn't choose it so i emerged from that chapter feeling like where how did i end up

00:10:38.800 here what do i actually want with my career i'm in my i was in my early 40s and i thought to myself

00:10:47.400 I feel, and this is generational too, right?

00:10:50.580 We're talking about the 20-somethings and we're, you and I are looking at our mother's

00:10:53.840 generations.

00:10:54.820 Uh-huh. 1.00

00:10:56.440 I don't know if my mom in her early 40s felt like she had all of this professional life 1.00

00:11:04.360 to live.

00:11:05.480 I think she saw retirement and whatnot kind of on the soon in the future.

00:11:10.680 Soon in the future.

00:11:11.400 I was in my early 40s.

00:11:13.120 That's a, I think that that is a very boomer thing.

00:11:16.180 For sure.

00:11:16.680 Yeah.

00:11:17.240 Right?

00:11:17.400 I mean, and it's also the boomer approach is much different than our Gen X approach or the millennials for sure, where it's like you work at the same place for 30 years, you get the gold watch, there's a retirement party, you get the pension, right?

00:11:31.560 Yep.

00:11:32.000 So for me in my early 40s, I was like, I feel like I have a lot more life to live.

00:11:36.880 I feel like I have a lot of professional goals that I want to pursue and fulfill.

00:11:41.180 And what the hell are they?

00:11:43.560 What are they? 0.57

00:11:44.260 I don't even know what they are.

00:11:45.080 I don't even know what they are.

00:11:45.740 I don't even know what they are.

00:11:46.800 Yeah.

00:11:47.180 Yeah.

00:11:47.400 Well, I want to back up for a second because you also used to say when you had this job at the high school, which was a very good, stable, comfortable job, right?

00:11:57.740 That you're like, oh, am I ambitious enough?

00:12:00.820 I went to this fancy college.

00:12:02.720 I went to this fancy law school.

00:12:04.740 Am I not doing enough with my ambition?

00:12:06.660 And you and I had so many conversations about what is ambition anyway, right?

00:12:12.300 It's redefining what you want, right?

00:12:15.980 So you and I are privileged enough to have gone to a very fancy Ivy League school.

00:12:22.820 So fancy.

00:12:23.560 All of our classmates, our former classmates are doing all this very impressive stuff.

00:12:29.660 And for me, I was an attorney and then I was working in law school.

00:12:34.480 And then I found myself in a place where I was like, oh, I'm working in a high school.

00:12:38.660 And I had feelings about that.

00:12:41.560 And you had feelings about that. 0.98

00:12:42.480 Well, because I do think that, you know, we came up in this girl boss era, which is like, you climb, you climb, you climb. 0.92

00:12:51.720 Sheryl Sandberg had an impact on me. 0.98

00:12:54.900 She had an impact on a lot of us. 0.99

00:12:55.860 I think she really fucked up a generation of women, to be honest. 1.00

00:12:58.320 I really kind of agree. 1.00

00:12:59.840 And it was all about, it was the leaning in.

00:13:03.060 And then we all realized, do I even want that?

00:13:04.880 I mean, also, do I even want that?

00:13:06.740 Do you even want that? 1.00

00:13:07.420 And also, I mean, whatever, the leaning in that Sheryl Sandberg was doing created a terrible company in Meta. 0.96

00:13:14.380 You know what? 1.00

00:13:15.220 Your ambition really ruined the world.

00:13:17.220 Right.

00:13:17.700 It really did.

00:13:18.780 It's really, you know, I don't feel bad about saying that.

00:13:21.540 And now the pendulum swings to your soft, what are they called, Jo?

00:13:25.360 The soft girls.

00:13:26.120 The soft girls and the trad wives.

00:13:28.060 Soft girls and trad wives, which, you know, there was a story on the BBC the other day about these girls in Sweden. 1.00

00:13:35.720 uh these soft girls who are quitting the workforce again because corporate america is also toxic

00:13:41.500 and they are receiving a salary from their boyfriends and i'm like that is a courtesan 0.75

00:13:46.780 my friends that is the oldest profession that women have been allowed to do so it's fine call 0.96

00:13:52.400 it soft girl all you want and no shame in any game women can do whatever it takes to survive

00:13:57.560 in this world but let's not pretend that this is anything but what it is okay yeah um okay let's 0.99

00:14:04.720 take a quick break. And when we get back, I want to hear about where you landed about what you want

00:14:08.920 to be doing now. Okay, we're back. We're back with my best friend in the entire world. And

00:14:21.200 she's mad at me right now because I'm going to Iceland with someone who's not her. So I have to

00:14:25.380 keep saying that over and over again to stroke her ego. I get really jealous about Jo's other 0.94

00:14:30.320 friendships really jealous and she also for a good couple of years you had several other friends

00:14:35.680 named jackie which really pissed me off yeah you really did i mean i will i mean actually not even

00:14:41.060 there was really only one other friend no there was there was there was a second one

00:14:45.000 i recall because i was angry i really think there was only one and and she likes to be called

00:14:50.880 jacklyn now so yeah yeah so there's that so anyway my very best friend in the whole world

00:14:56.760 So tell us about the process that you had to go through to figure out what you want to do next.

00:15:03.280 Because I think a lot of us want to change.

00:15:06.200 And then we're like, what is our purpose?

00:15:08.340 Who the hell am I?

00:15:09.740 What am I supposed to do with the second half of my life?

00:15:12.600 Yes.

00:15:13.000 So I basically coached myself throughout this process.

00:15:18.960 I'm a career coach.

00:15:19.820 I've been a career coach since 2010. And I utilized all of the strategies that I have over the years used with clients and lawyers and other professionals. And I kind of went through the whole process myself.

00:15:35.380 the most disturbing thing that occurred to me was that I did not know what I wanted

00:15:42.940 and it was so discouraging to me honestly and then I dug into it and I realized and I ended up

00:15:54.200 having coffee and lunches with a lot of different women during this time when I was exploring what

00:16:01.940 I wanted to do. And so many women said the exact same thing to me. They said, I know I want to do 1.00

00:16:07.200 something different or I know I want to start my own company or change jobs. I've got something

00:16:14.600 that I want to fulfill. I know there's something more. I just don't know what it is. And that makes

00:16:20.580 sense, right? Because for eons, women have been putting their wants, their desires, their 1.00

00:16:28.480 professional priorities to be sure but many times they're personal priorities on the back burner

00:16:33.500 yep everybody else's priorities come first yeah they do and i am not here for a culture war between 0.98

00:16:41.960 state home moms and working moms i'm not sure for that at all because well that it's dumb that that

00:16:46.840 even exists okay yeah but because i i worked i have three children i've worked consistently

00:16:53.860 throughout the life, the lives of my children. What I did was take an alternate career path,

00:17:01.920 something I never would have done in a million years because it worked better for my family.

00:17:06.720 And that alternate career path, that chapter where I really think of that chapter as a chapter 0.87

00:17:11.640 where I prioritized my family's priorities, that to me is just, that is comparable to a woman

00:17:18.200 taking a pause yeah staying at home yeah to be with her children whatever you need to do

00:17:24.020 for that chapter in your life where you're prioritizing your family for me it was a

00:17:28.760 beautiful chapter i loved it i loved coming home at 3 p.m i loved you know i was i was an attorney

00:17:33.780 i mean back in the day i loved coming home at 3 p.m and not thinking about work at all

00:17:39.840 shutting shutting the computer it's a gift yeah yeah yeah not responding to emails i had nothing

00:17:45.760 thing to do it was me and at three o'clock it was it was the girls so I went through this whole

00:17:50.700 process of discerning what I wanted and that looked like a lot of

00:17:58.940 base so the first thing that occurred to me was that my life especially when I was working at the

00:18:07.440 school was really frenetic and the frenetic pace of my life did not allow me to reflect

00:18:15.360 on anything really personal I was moving so quickly throughout the day task task task and

00:18:23.220 this happens to type a people right like we like to we like to have a list and accomplish things

00:18:28.320 and check things off the list it occurred to me that I had no space in my day to just

00:18:34.980 listen to myself and hear that inner voice that tells you honestly like what you want out of life

00:18:43.300 right journaling okay i know you do journal i know people are rolling your eyes oh no no i mean

00:18:50.660 i don't know we talked about this when we were in this sleep because you journal every morning and

00:18:55.360 i love this for you and i love this for people that it works for i can't do it because my life

00:19:01.560 is writing and so journaling just feels like work even even even for the people i know a lot of

00:19:06.720 writers do it who are like it's not work you just sit down and i'm like no no no writing is work

00:19:11.200 for me it's never supposed to be free association are you can or do you feel like you have to make

00:19:15.720 it sound good it's not even it's just the physical act of doing it it's like there are a certain

00:19:20.960 number of words that i can physically put on a page in a day and i can't sap from that well

00:19:28.500 so that's it i just it's never i can't do it yeah not not right now not when i'm trying to finish

00:19:35.000 um finish many many novels yeah i know yes you are working on many many novels all at once

00:19:41.080 yes so and that's still a goal of mine is to get you to journal I know it is I know it is yeah

00:19:46.500 because well because for me it's for me it was just so um it was such a life-changing thing

00:19:50.980 because I was so and this is also therapy by the way therapy go to therapy go to therapy

00:19:58.020 therapy is the best therapy is amazing totally and it's just an opportunity to be self-reflective

00:20:04.640 about how you're feeling. So, I mean, it occurred to me, I was like, wow, I'm really tired. I need

00:20:11.320 space. This frenetic pace of my day is just too much. And so I reflected on what was working and

00:20:21.220 what was not working in my current situation. And then the career coach kicked in and it is

00:20:26.820 looking back on your professional life which jobs did you like which jobs did you not like

00:20:34.700 why did you like them why did you not like them and going through many exercises and activities

00:20:42.460 really intended to help you discern what you want for example there's one where you're listing like

00:20:50.820 all of the dreams you've ever had in your life it's called 100 dreams and you're literally

00:20:56.220 listing like everything you've ever wanted to do in your life so is it like get the master's degree

00:21:01.020 in that is it visit iceland is it go to um is it skydive it's like going through all of these

00:21:08.860 things that you've always wanted from when you were a little kid through now literally done all

00:21:14.040 all of those things already i need new dreams well those are mine i mean that's an example of

00:21:18.740 a random person right right there are things although no well like pilot's license right

00:21:24.380 And now I'm getting my pilot's license.

00:21:26.280 I'm getting that thing.

00:21:27.320 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:21:28.420 The problem is I indulge my dreams immediately.

00:21:30.800 I am a dream indulger.

00:21:32.660 Like, you know what?

00:21:33.840 You should go get a random master's in religious studies.

00:21:37.400 Yeah.

00:21:37.860 That's a beautiful thing.

00:21:38.860 I'll tell you, though, Joey, not everyone is.

00:21:41.140 I know.

00:21:41.600 I know. 1.00

00:21:41.820 A lot of women are suppressing these things, and they don't even know what they want. 1.00

00:21:46.220 They're like, I don't. 1.00

00:21:46.820 Truth.

00:21:47.440 A hundred dream?

00:21:48.840 And a lot of it ends up being about kids.

00:21:50.360 Like, I want my daughter to be this.

00:21:51.820 I want my son to be this.

00:21:52.820 And I'm like, no, no, no, no.

00:21:54.220 this is not about your daughter or your son this is about what you want and in that exercise

00:21:59.740 you start thinking about your you know 15 year old self who wanted i mean i wanted to be

00:22:07.860 i wanted to be like a diplomat oh yeah i had forgotten about that i would like i was because

00:22:14.040 i had um like international relations bent to my to my major you'd be a really good diplomat

00:22:20.240 Thank you.

00:22:21.000 You could still apply.

00:22:21.840 Nick applied to be a diplomat recently.

00:22:23.080 Did he?

00:22:23.860 Failed.

00:22:24.360 I would love to.

00:22:25.060 Failed at that.

00:22:25.840 I would love to work with Matt.

00:22:27.740 You're here.

00:22:28.500 Well, you know, hey, Matt.

00:22:30.960 Our friend Matt is a diplomat.

00:22:33.260 Matt is currently in Colombia.

00:22:35.620 We could not go to Europe.

00:22:37.060 We could go to Colombia instead.

00:22:38.280 We could.

00:22:38.680 I would love that.

00:22:39.160 To visit Matt.

00:22:39.660 I've also just watched that show, The Diplomat, with Keri Russell, and I just want to be her.

00:22:43.540 I was about to start that.

00:22:44.240 I was about to start that.

00:22:45.040 The best.

00:22:45.880 Is it?

00:22:46.020 It is so smart.

00:22:46.920 I love her.

00:22:47.800 And Allison Janney is in the second season. 1.00

00:22:49.260 And she kills it.

00:22:50.860 I mean, I'll watch Allison Janney and Bradley Whitford and anything.

00:22:55.300 Anything.

00:22:56.240 Yeah.

00:22:57.340 That was a digression.

00:22:58.480 I'm just saying you can be a diplomat.

00:22:59.500 I mean, not now because, you know, the Trump administration is gutting the State Department,

00:23:03.420 which is why Nick was told that there are no positions available.

00:23:08.560 But you can.

00:23:09.440 Maybe when the kids are in college.

00:23:11.520 But that's it.

00:23:12.220 So as I'm going through all this, I was like, look at all these things I've always wanted

00:23:15.820 that i've never acted on yeah for a variety of reasons and this is where you look back at your

00:23:20.940 this is where you look back on your life and you give yourself grace for that person you were

00:23:26.520 and give her permission to do what she wants to do okay so like i looked at my life and i was like

00:23:35.300 oh like you know not not feelings of of regret there was some feelings of regret some feelings

00:23:41.700 of shame for this job that didn't go well or this particular path I took and that didn't work out.

00:23:48.000 And instead of that, and again, this is where the wisdom of the 40-something come down. Yeah.

00:23:52.640 You're looking back and you're like, that 20-something was clueless. She had no idea

00:23:55.980 what she was doing. No, she had no idea. And she did the best she could. She did. And it all worked

00:24:00.500 out because now here I am trying to figure out what I want to do next. So in the discerning of

00:24:07.500 this, and in having coffee with every woman in Nashville and hearing the very similar stories

00:24:13.420 that everyone else was having, I decided to dig into career coaching, again, which I had been

00:24:19.840 doing forever and still doing on the side while I was working at the school, and launch a women's

00:24:26.160 network really focused on women who are looking to pivot professionally and find intentionality

00:24:36.280 and clarity in their next professional chapter so i launched juno women's collectives that was in

00:24:43.200 march of last year when we were in sicily we were in sicily while you were doing it yeah yeah we were

00:24:49.600 we were drinking drinking a lot of aperol spritzes we were indeed yes and the name juno actually was

00:24:55.920 inspired by your um that is it the medusa tattoo the medusa tattoo yeah so i loved that idea of 0.64

00:25:04.020 just a strong woman and a strong female character. And when I was thinking about the name,

00:25:11.760 Juno, who is in Greco-Roman mythology, the queen, the goddess of women, also the wife of Zeus.

00:25:20.400 And that was the only thing I remembered about her. We talk about this all the time,

00:25:24.280 the stories that are told about women and who tells those stories and why you would frame a 1.00

00:25:29.060 woman as a shrew and a bitch and jealous. My biggest problem with so many old myths and 0.99

00:25:34.960 stories is the woman is always jealous. She's always jealous of the beauty, too, which is

00:25:40.320 something, frankly, that right now the Republican Party is constantly using against us. Every time

00:25:45.240 I say anything about trad wives, they're like, you're just jealous because she's hot and you're 1.00

00:25:48.600 homely. And I'm like, first off, I'm a smoke show, motherfuckers. You really are. I really am. I 1.00

00:25:54.780 I really am. I feel like a smoke show. Yeah. You are a smoke show. Yeah. But I mean, the idea that of women being jealous of other women is just it's some it was a male creation. It really was. I'm not saying there's not, you know, sometimes envy. I get professional envy. I never get looks envy. But I do get professional envy sometimes.

00:26:12.140 Oh, yeah. Like LinkedIn envy.

00:26:14.200 Like, oh, I don't know. I'm not on the LinkedIn.

00:26:15.780 You've told me you get LinkedIn envy, but I don't see that.

00:26:18.440 You know, I'm better now, but I'll tell you when I was when I was in my last chapter where, again, I was like, oh, gosh, I didn't even how did I even end up here?

00:26:26.880 And I'm going on LinkedIn and LinkedIn shame. 0.99

00:26:28.820 I want to do an in-depth dive into this because I really think it's a thing for women. 0.99

00:26:35.300 You go on LinkedIn and you're like, shit, this is making me feel terrible. 0.99

00:26:38.960 Instagram doesn't make me feel bad. 0.99

00:26:40.220 i have curated i have curated my instagram feed so it is so delightful it is like recipes and

00:26:47.920 inspirational jesus quotes and maybe reese weatherspoon like like a celebrity i like

00:26:54.380 it makes me very happy my instagram feed is fucking excellent linkedin is where i get the

00:27:00.320 shame and the the like stab to the self-esteem oh see i i get it on instagram because that's 0.81

00:27:06.360 where all the authors are so i'm like oh my gosh they got on this list that i didn't get on 0.64

00:27:10.600 i suck um which i'm working on because all of that is fake and everyone's lying to you anyway 0.53

00:27:15.420 yeah as is as is linkedin as is linkedin everyone's lying to you that's why i mean the title of the 0.96

00:27:21.160 novel the tried wife murder mystery everyone is lying to you is perfect because that is what's 0.62

00:27:24.960 happening online okay everyone's fucking lying to you that's right it's true it's true uh all 0.71

00:27:28.720 right we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna take one more break uh and when we get back i want to 0.90

00:27:31.940 hear more about Juno and this coaching and what you tell your clients. Cool.

00:27:44.960 We are back. Now, one of the most interesting things about what you do now is I think that

00:27:51.880 women need permission very often to change, to pivot, to, as you said, dream. What are some 0.94

00:28:01.700 things that you talk to your clients about, you know, through their process of reinvention?

00:28:08.540 So, I think what you just said is really important. There is so much confusion and

00:28:19.600 shame around the not knowing. And I work with a lot of women who, and I work with them for months, 1.00

00:28:29.060 Joe. So this is not like, oh, you know, you have a career coach for four weeks and then I know what

00:28:33.980 to do with my life now. This is, you know, a deep dive into what is going to make you happy and

00:28:41.980 fulfilled in this next chapter of your life. I focus my coaching curriculum and the curriculum

00:28:50.640 for Juno on something called positive psychology. Positive psychology is an area of psychology that

00:28:57.020 focuses on well-being and flourishing. So as opposed to traditional psychology, which focuses

00:29:03.960 on the negative occurrences in the human brain schizophrenia anxiety depression all the things

00:29:12.440 you'd find in the dsm right positive psychology is the study of human flourishing it's also called

00:29:19.480 the science of happiness and i work with clients on first and foremost identifying

00:29:26.480 how in their lives they have the five dimensions of human flourishing which are

00:29:34.600 positive emotions so that's literally just what it sounds like okay so happy feelings vibes like

00:29:42.100 how frequently are you feeling good engagement engagement is the next one and that is the

00:29:48.920 feeling of flow you guys have heard of flow like when i hear about flow in like my yoga class yeah

00:29:55.360 So flow in this context is when you are doing something that you really enjoy.

00:30:02.260 Actually, it's a challenge.

00:30:04.080 It's matching a challenge with a strength.

00:30:07.260 So you are, it can't be, if you think about a particular challenge, if it's too easy,

00:30:12.980 you're not going to be in flow.

00:30:14.060 If it's too hard, you're not going to be in flow.

00:30:15.860 But if you're doing something like, I'm not sporty, but if I were to play basketball,

00:30:19.360 if I was good at that, if I was playing basketball or playing a sport, you can be in flow.

00:30:23.340 You are so not sporty.

00:30:24.600 sporty at all you don't even like to get get your hair wet i don't i know i'm okay with that

00:30:29.980 it is it is who i am let me just i just want i just want to know like we we actually do take

00:30:35.440 many beach vacations together and you don't go in the water i like to lounge i like to read a book

00:30:40.500 you don't ride bikes i did once okay i kind of played and it didn't go well um yeah i don't

00:30:48.380 ride bikes i'm working on this i'm working on being more adventurous you don't have to get

00:30:52.760 of my life i mean is is one of you're also incredibly adventurous you do all the very

00:30:57.400 adventurous things i'm not that adventurous you are no i mean is one of your dreams to jump out

00:31:02.760 of a plane because i can't see you doing that no that was totally made up that was just a random 0.97

00:31:06.280 dream no i don't want to go to iceland either by the way fuck that okay cool well okay iceland 0.95

00:31:12.140 lovely then you know what you should you and kara should have a great time casey then you shouldn't 0.97

00:31:17.180 get jealous that i'm going to iceland because it's not your jam anyway okay not your jam anyway

00:31:23.860 yeah yeah are so it's it's perma the acronym is perma you got positive positive emotions

00:31:31.780 engagement relationships relationships are incredibly happy these are the five dimensions

00:31:37.180 of human flourishing so how are the relationships in your life yeah meaning so do you identify with

00:31:44.440 something bigger than yourself when it comes to your personal and your professional life.

00:31:49.680 That could be, that's where faith comes in for a lot of people. That could just be

00:31:53.360 you doing something that you think contributes to the world generally, right? So if you have a job

00:31:58.480 where you feel like you're making the world a better place because you're contributing through

00:32:03.240 art or through service, something like that. Meaning is a big component. And then the last

00:32:09.140 one for again PERMA is achievement and achievement is human beings run marathons for no good reason

00:32:18.240 just right just to run totally yeah set goals for themselves just to just to achieve the goal

00:32:24.380 and that is one component of human flourishing so with my clients when we're going through

00:32:30.280 what do they want to do next we are assessing PERMA throughout their lives and all the different

00:32:37.560 facets of their lives professionally, have they had that in the past? And how can they find

00:32:44.320 something that's going to really make sure that they can have this unique dimension really on

00:32:50.380 overdrive? On overdrive. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this all makes so much sense to me. And yet,

00:32:56.320 and yet, and yet, I do think it's something that we need help with, that we need permission to do,

00:33:02.960 that we need. I also don't think we just sit down enough with our friends like you and I had hours

00:33:07.720 and hours in a car to talk through this. That's and that's the relationships, right? Right.

00:33:14.760 Some people will they'll look at their lives and they'll be like, wow, I did not realize. So I've

00:33:19.340 got the I've got engagement. I'm doing something that makes me feel really, really engaged. I'm

00:33:25.060 in the flow quite frequently. My relationships are in the toilet and that's affecting my positive

00:33:30.840 emotions. Are you happy? Are you happy now? Yeah, I am. Do you like this pivot? I love this pivot

00:33:44.580 and it's because I am choosing what I want to do. The feeling of agency that I have

00:33:54.040 is phenomenal whereas in years past I felt like I didn't really have control of my life

00:34:03.080 where I you know I was a good mom I was a good wife I was a good you know insert profession here

00:34:12.500 yeah yeah good employee right I felt like life was happening to me so the thing that is most

00:34:21.400 feeling now is that the feeling of agency I have over my own life. So as I'm listing the dreams

00:34:29.300 I've had, I'm going through them. I'm like, which ones am I going to do this year? Yeah. What are

00:34:33.840 you going to do? What are you going to do this year? I'm probably, well, I'm applying to get a

00:34:39.920 master's in positive psychology. Oh my gosh. I love that. I love that for you. Well, you know,

00:34:45.780 I love school. I know you love school. I'm excited to go back to school. Yeah. I mean,

00:34:50.380 I love school. I love learning. I want to get a PhD. You should. I just want people to call me

00:34:56.440 doctor. I think that's a great idea. It's always a conversation with the family. So I told my

00:35:02.820 husband that I want to do this and I have to have a conversation with my daughters because I want

00:35:06.360 them to buy in. Though I'm confident the youngest one is going to tell me not to do it. What's she 0.99

00:35:11.600 going to say? She's going to be like, that sounds like you will not be around a lot. So don't do

00:35:15.540 that. I don't think that's true. Where would you go? Well, for this particular one, I would go to

00:35:20.880 Philadelphia. Shut your mouth. I was planning to talk to you about this. Shut your mouth. I have 1.00

00:35:25.740 to apply and get accepted, by the way. So don't even, we'll talk about that. But wait, but so it

00:35:30.320 would, you would have to fly up here? Yeah, like every six weeks or so. Okay. Yeah. I'm here for

00:35:35.780 that. Uh, yes. That's part of the reason that I thought it was very appealing. Would you stay with me?

00:35:39.880 Uh, yes. I mean, if you would have me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You have to, you know, be okay with sleeping

00:35:44.560 in the basement with that or actually you can sleep up here nick and sleep in the basement

00:35:48.200 that's what we did last time that's what we did last time we did a reunion yeah i know i know um

00:35:53.220 reunion where i was pregnant i couldn't have any fun oh my gosh i mean i had fun i had fun at our

00:35:58.400 20-year college i had like 70 fun i had like 50 fun i really wish you had been more available less 0.91

00:36:05.540 pregnant yeah that's pregnant yeah yeah i mean breaking into the pike fraternity that was 0.91

00:36:11.080 delightful playing beer pong at noon then i found myself at this party without you 0.99

00:36:16.620 because i was pregnant and tired and and it's so funny i'm 44 and then in like a blip i'm like

00:36:23.520 the dynamics are very similar to when i was 20 years old yeah they are yeah they are in a fraternity

00:36:29.140 basement in a fraternity basement yeah yeah it was a i had a lot of fun i had a lot of fun at

00:36:35.920 20 a reunion at 25 but although you know the the thing is neither of us can really handle alcohol

00:36:42.180 anymore so that's also a change this is true also a change i cannot hack a hangover i mean to save

00:36:49.580 my life and i've been trying to plow through it i have uh because i'm not a quitter but not like 0.52

00:36:56.240 julia roberts i'm not okay but i uh yeah the hangovers just kick my butt no matter how much

00:37:03.160 drink no i don't want that anxiety i don't want that anxiety it might it's depressed it's depressed

00:37:09.580 feelings and anxiety the next day and there's no worse than anything else at that percent and the

00:37:14.800 roi is just not worth it like i like occasionally like if i'm at well maybe at 25 year maybe at 25

00:37:21.300 year reunion like if i'm at a wedding or or an event yeah generally like the roi i'm like am i 0.72

00:37:28.940 even having fun i'm gonna feel like shit in the morning i'm gonna feel like shit in the morning 0.95

00:37:31.980 I know. Getting older sucks. All right. Can you tell us a little more about Juno? You've been 1.00

00:37:38.140 building it for a year. Where are you at now? So Juno is a network. So it's a network of small

00:37:45.560 groups for women. And we go through a curriculum in these small groups where we're exploring all

00:37:53.420 of these things. It's really like a self-discovery curriculum, personally focused with the hope of

00:38:00.880 a professional outcome and the cool thing about the groups is that there's it's i'm confident you

00:38:09.340 have been a part of margarita night or book clubs where like yeah no one ever shows up yeah yeah

00:38:14.400 yeah totally infuriating my book club hasn't met in two years yeah exactly so this is not that this

00:38:20.000 is uh an accountability group you are committing to it for a year you're assuming a role within the

00:38:26.160 group. You have a curriculum and you have an agenda. Someone is sending the agenda out before

00:38:32.120 and it's serious business because you're really investing. You're paying money,

00:38:38.240 but you're also investing in your, you're investing in your future. So what people

00:38:45.240 have really loved about it is, um, the connection. So what I thought was that a lot of women just 0.98

00:38:52.260 felt so lonely in the navigating the career yeah yeah there's just a lot of loneliness in it they

00:38:59.960 felt like they were all alone they didn't no one else is going through this stuff and i there are 0.99

00:39:05.420 a lot of stay-at-home moms i'll tell you joe um and again i hate that phrase women it's a dumb 1.00

00:39:11.900 word stay-at-home mom is just a dumb word okay it's like women women working working in the home 1.00

00:39:18.720 You know? 1.00

00:39:19.880 Yeah.

00:39:20.840 I want to get rid of that word.

00:39:22.380 Right.

00:39:22.920 So women who have dedicated a chapter of their lives to their family. 0.95

00:39:26.080 Yep. 1.00

00:39:26.380 And they're looking to get back into more traditional work.

00:39:29.640 And it's incredibly intimidating.

00:39:31.840 Of course it is.

00:39:32.880 Of course.

00:39:33.220 And I'm getting, I mean, also the job force is generally intimidating.

00:39:35.960 Yeah.

00:39:36.180 I'm convinced. 1.00

00:39:37.020 I mean, I've worked with women who are baller women who have like master's in economics 0.97

00:39:41.580 from such and such places.

00:39:42.900 And they're like, I am so intimidated to go to that networking group.

00:39:47.420 I have been with my kids for the past 10 years.

00:39:50.940 I've got a quote-unquote gap on my resume, which is not really a gap.

00:39:54.660 It's not really a gap. 0.97

00:39:55.380 I'm encouraging everyone to put that on their fucking resume from here on out, okay? 0.99

00:40:00.000 I agree. 0.99

00:40:00.740 Yeah, it's not a gap.

00:40:01.820 It's not a gap.

00:40:02.440 You were working.

00:40:03.200 You were probably gaining more skills than that middle manager dude working at XY Corporation.

00:40:08.620 The media for a white man, yes. 0.99

00:40:09.980 Scratching his balls while playing solitaire all day, okay? 1.00

00:40:13.300 Just saying. 0.99

00:40:15.780 And...

00:40:17.420 And I think that the community also for these groups is just so empowering.

00:40:23.780 Cute.

00:40:24.300 So there's connection.

00:40:25.560 And then you're just finding you're getting clarity.

00:40:27.440 You're getting clarity in what you want to do next.

00:40:29.240 And there's community.

00:40:30.560 We are in Nashville right now, but we are looking to be virtual next year, which is

00:40:36.240 very exciting.

00:40:37.760 That is exciting.

00:40:38.560 I love that.

00:40:39.200 So where can people find more information about this?

00:40:41.600 So JunoWomen.com.

00:40:44.640 And then we're on Instagram.

00:40:46.020 juno women's collectives and then i'm on instagram as well your mindset coach

00:40:51.860 and it's been a journey it's been a beautiful journey i love this journey for you yeah i'm

00:40:58.800 happy to have been on this journey with you well i love you and you're always so supportive i love

00:41:04.540 you um now now you know now i'm thinking about my hundred dreams when we go on vacation together

00:41:10.620 should we sit down and we can we can make a list of my hundred dreams i think it's actually really

00:41:15.520 interesting exercise for someone like you who have acted on a lot of your dreams because there

00:41:20.600 are probably because you might need more your dreams might look more like resting truth truth

00:41:30.400 but i also would get bored that's the thing like i look at a lot of these soft girl accounts and 0.93

00:41:34.780 i'm like aren't you fucking bored girl like really how many times are you gonna wash your face 0.97

00:41:39.440 so like i mean look they've got some glowy ass skin but so do i because i've got that uv mask 0.99

00:41:45.180 thing uh and so my skin already looks great and like how many times you're gonna wash your face

00:41:51.320 and how often can you go to yoga i go i work out every day too like i just i think they're all 0.81

00:41:56.060 freaking liars i think they're all like it's all performative it's all performative it's all 0.56

00:42:01.540 performative and i don't want to manage it's really all i don't want a man that gives me a 0.94

00:42:05.200 salary it's i blame cheryl sandberg okay so somehow this podcast has just become a third 1.00

00:42:10.020 cheryl sandberg why do you fuck up so many women lady she's she just wrote a book she wrote a 0.96

00:42:14.840 fucking book she did a great job and yeah things happened but the pendulum the pendulum has 0.99

00:42:20.580 officially swung the pendulum has swung it's kind of scary it's scary it is it is all right i love 0.95

00:42:26.560 you i love you this has been fun i love you more this is great okay that's all we have for today

00:42:32.080 check out Juno. It's cool. It really is. And Jackie's just the freaking best.

00:42:38.120 I'm going to start working on my list of 100 dreams. If you have suggestions for my dreams,

00:42:43.580 shoot me a note, slide into my DMs. I love suggestions. I just love a suggestion.

00:42:48.500 I also want to hear what all of you are planning for 2025. Let me know what your resolutions are,

00:42:56.480 what you want to give up, what you want to add more of. We're all in this together. And even

00:43:01.900 though the past three months of this year have been a real dumpster fire of shit, I'm optimistic. 0.99

00:43:10.800 I remain optimistic, friends. I do. I do. Now go do something nice for yourself, 0.98

00:43:15.460 be awesome, and take care of each other. Bye! 0.99

00:43:31.900 We'll see you next time.

00:44:01.900 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - December 24, 2024

How to Pivot in 2025

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