Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - If You Build It, They Will Come

00:00:01.000 Hungry now.

00:00:04.000 Now.

00:00:07.000 What about now?

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00:00:11.000 grab an O'Henry bar to satisfy your hunger.

00:00:15.000 With its delicious combination of big, crunchy, salty peanuts

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00:00:24.000 Swing by a gas station and get an O'Henry today.

00:00:27.000 O'Hungry O'Henry.

00:00:30.000 congratulations we're thrilled to welcome you to reward style a one-of-a-kind community of

00:00:38.720 premium influencers this email is your first step to getting started and becoming a part of the

00:00:44.080 community you might be confused right now you're like reward style rejected her she was all sad

00:00:52.160 about that well through the magic of being a journalist who writes about things i begged them

00:00:59.280 and they let me in. So today I'm getting started. This moment right here is the beginning of my

00:01:07.300 whole new life as an influencer, which means it's time for me to actually start making some

00:01:12.740 of that shoppable content that I've been talking so much about. Just like everything else in life,

00:01:18.440 the more consistent you are, the more results you'll see. In fact, reward style influencers

00:01:23.060 who post at least once a day can increase their earnings by four times, which means more money

00:01:28.900 in your pocket and who doesn't want that? I do want that. I'm fucking doing this. I'm going to

00:01:34.820 influence people on Instagram. I'm going to post a picture and find a way to make money off of it

00:01:39.900 because that is what an influencer does. And if I can't make money off this, then it's not a

00:01:45.900 business. For my first mission, I am going to try to wrangle my child into plastic water shoes from

00:01:53.180 Target. Hey, ma'am. Then I'm going to take a picture of those water shoes and hope someone 0.99

00:01:58.520 buys it so I can make a commission of 73 cents. Easy, right? Hey, come here. Where are your water

00:02:06.480 shoes? I don't know. Hi. Hey, come back here. Can we put them on? No. Come on. Don't throw the shoe.

00:02:16.640 Charles, don't put the shoes. Put the shoe on.

00:02:20.980 No, can you put the shoes on?

00:02:24.280 No, there's the other one.

00:02:25.660 Hey, can I take a photo?

00:02:27.500 Photo?

00:02:29.080 Photo.

00:02:30.780 Photo?

00:02:34.460 In this episode, I'm going to give you a step-by-step guide

00:02:38.080 to crafting the perfect influencer post.

00:02:41.220 Except I really don't know what I'm doing,

00:02:44.360 So I crowdsourced every influencer I've ever spoke to.

00:02:48.620 I'm heavy on outfit coordination.

00:02:51.600 A long, in-depth caption, especially if it's something that I'm kind of pouring my heart out about.

00:02:56.440 Hashtags are huge.

00:02:58.260 The lighting is good. You have to make sure you're not in rough way.

00:03:00.320 Ten times out of ten, we're either going to be matching or...

00:03:03.100 Directed the right way, and you have to make sure that...

00:03:04.900 But once you post, you can't just walk away because you want to engage back with the people who engage in your comments.

00:03:10.580 So it's like all of this just for one picture.

00:03:13.980 deep breath there is so much more to do than i expected i just gotta do it come on piazza

00:03:24.800 you've got this mama

00:03:26.720 I'm Jo Piazza, and we are all under the influence.

00:03:50.540 Chapter 5. If you build it, they will come.

00:03:56.720 When you get accepted to RewardStyle, you get a lot of homework, all the tools you need to be a successful influencer.

00:04:05.900 Check out both the Influencer Welcome Packet and the LTK Beginner's Guide attached to this email.

00:04:11.920 These are your go-to reference guides for getting started with RewardStyle.

00:04:14.080 This was a fatter syllabus than I got in all of my economics classes at the University of Pennsylvania.

00:04:19.200 And it was way more prep than I got my first day working at the New York Daily News.

00:04:24.520 Back then, they just tossed me a pack of cigarettes and a MetroCard and said,

00:04:27.460 go forth, young lady, and report.

00:04:32.460 So we're starting this process.

00:04:34.760 Step one, find something to take a picture of that someone will pay you money for.

00:04:42.840 So you're in.

00:04:44.020 Does this make up for not getting into actual Harvard?

00:04:48.540 No, I am actually still pretty bitter.

00:04:50.780 But I will tell you, no offense, Harvard.

00:04:53.180 but I think this might be harder.

00:04:57.000 But what happens now?

00:04:59.060 Once you're a big time influencer,

00:05:00.980 brands come to you

00:05:01.960 and then you get paid a lump sum,

00:05:03.980 like just a giant sack of cash for a post

00:05:06.980 because the brands know

00:05:08.100 that your audience is already good,

00:05:09.800 that it will convert into sales.

00:05:11.820 But no one knows who the hell I am. 0.67

00:05:14.120 I'm a peon.

00:05:15.220 So I need RewardStyle

00:05:16.400 to help me get to these brands.

00:05:18.340 In your Instagram,

00:05:19.180 you can link to a product

00:05:20.340 that RewardStyle has already approved

00:05:22.040 And you'll get a percentage of that sale every time someone buys something.

00:05:26.920 Okay.

00:05:27.800 Here's the problem.

00:05:28.620 So the more expensive the item that you're featuring, the more you make.

00:05:32.820 But almost all of my kids' clothes are hand-me-downs that I got from someone else or they're from Target.

00:05:39.860 The only thing in my house that I could find that was on reward style was this Target toddler water shoe, a sandal.

00:05:47.000 And I just have to hope that someone clicks a link and makes 73 cents.

00:05:52.040 okay I just want to get this straight you get a pair of shoes from Target you take a picture of

00:06:00.220 Charlie wearing the shoes people see Charlie in the shoes and click on the link and purchase the

00:06:07.620 shoes and you get 73 cents every time someone purchases the shoes from your photo yes okay

00:06:17.340 if 1,000 people do that, you are making as much money as you would for, let's say, a 750-word

00:06:29.380 essay. Sure. Maybe one article for the New York Times, right? On a good day. Okay, so wait,

00:06:35.360 have you done this? I did it. I posted a picture of the water sandals. The conundrum here is if

00:06:40.260 5,000 of your followers purchased that from that one photo, then that's not a bad haul. But are

00:06:47.840 5,000 of your 7,000 followers purchasing these shoes? Nobody bought them. Nobody. I don't think

00:06:55.800 I did it right on reward style or like to know it probably because they gave me 11 pages of

00:07:02.500 information on how to do it. And I thought I could just give it. That feels completely reasonable to

00:07:09.580 me, by the way. I really don't think that I took a very good picture. It's impossible to take a

00:07:13.580 picture of a toddler. I mean, they're just kind of assholes and they're very wiggly. They're very 0.99

00:07:17.960 fast. Don't throw the shoe. Charles, don't throw the shoe. Put the shoe on. Okay. But I'm curious

00:07:24.860 to know in their 11 pages, what does Reward Style say is a good picture? They offer an entire

00:07:32.700 photography class on their website and they will teach you how to use a fancy DSLR camera,

00:07:39.140 which costs more than a grand. So I just use my phone. But talking to other influencers,

00:07:44.640 I learned the first dirty little secret of influencing.

00:07:48.860 What is the dirty little secret? I'm here for gossip always.

00:07:52.060 A lot of these professional influencers, they're hiring professional photographers 0.99

00:07:56.040 once a week or once a month. Wow. That has to be expensive. I'm just assuming.

00:08:03.340 It would be a lot of clicks on water sandals. I can tell you that.

00:08:07.500 it's an army of water sandals you have got to feed this beast and that is step two

00:08:15.900 take a beautiful picture the photo has to be so beautiful that you want to touch it

00:08:23.560 there's a physicality involved here i need to find a photographer who can make people want to

00:08:28.120 touch my life so i started calling around to photographers to find out how much that kind

00:08:34.060 thing was going to cost me. So for bloggers, my rate is $200 for an hour.

00:08:45.580 The typical cost for me is $185 per hour. And that includes editing and sending all the images

00:08:52.960 digitally and doing all of that. That first quote, $200 an hour, that came from Allie Provost.

00:09:01.080 The second one came from a woman named Carter Fish. 0.89

00:09:04.180 Both of them are photographers who now make a full-time living

00:09:07.780 shooting influencers in New York City.

00:09:10.840 Yes, influencer photographer is now a full-time job.

00:09:14.420 Influencer photographer is the new wedding photographer.

00:09:17.500 What I learned talking to these ladies and what you're about to hear

00:09:20.200 made me look at influencer Instagrams completely differently.

00:09:24.920 And here's the good part,

00:09:26.680 it made me feel a hell of a lot better about my own life.

00:09:30.460 See, when we're scrolling Instagram, when we're on the infinite scroll, where it feels like our eyes are taped open, we just assume that everyone takes pictures like we do in the moment.

00:09:40.480 But no, a lot of influencers, not all, but a lot of them, hire a photographer to come once a week or once a month to shoot seven or 30 days of content in a single day.

00:09:52.740 They change outfits, hairstyles, locations.

00:09:55.540 most influencers come to the shoot and they think they know what they want but then

00:10:02.740 I will obviously show them on my camera like okay this is what this looks like and if they hate it

00:10:07.700 you have to be able to on the spot be like let's try this do this differently you have to wear a

00:10:13.380 few different hats during a shoot that's Carter again per hour I would say on average I take

00:10:20.520 about 1300 photos and with kids you kind of need to shoot more than less because

00:10:26.500 one's usually smiling if there's multiple one's not a lot of parents and influencers will give

00:10:32.860 their kids like an incentive like you do this really well like by the end like we'll go get

00:10:37.860 ice cream or something so they always need something to look forward to and something

00:10:41.360 on hand that will make them happy so so bribe you're saying bribery usually bribery yes yes yes

00:10:47.540 Yes. There's something so refreshing and kind of a relief about that because I look at a lot

00:10:53.280 of influencer pictures and I'm like, Oh my God, their kids look so fucking well-behaved.

00:10:59.340 Like it's not that well-behaved and know that there's a doll in someone's pocket. Like I used 0.80

00:11:05.120 to put bacon in my pocket to make my dog behave in central park. Like this is like pocket bacon,

00:11:11.040 but for kids. And I feel so much better about my life knowing that.

00:11:14.700 No, I mean, I can say that in some way, any of the influencers or children I've worked with are just normal kids. Like, I know online it looks like that. And that's my job to kind of make it seem how they want it to seem. But behind closed doors, every child is the same.

00:11:34.920 Every photographer I talked to mentioned these extra roles they have to fill, that this job is way more time consuming than even their clients expect.

00:11:44.700 Here's Allie Provost again. She walked me through all the work that goes into editing the pictures, taking out the snot, the garbage, the triple chins. 1.00

00:11:54.360 In reality, the editing and processing of the images probably takes a little bit longer than actually capturing the images at the shoot. 1.00

00:12:04.200 if a shoot took an hour it could probably end up taking two hours to three hours on the back end

00:12:11.220 in total if I chose and edited all the images wow that's a lot of work that's a lot it's a lot

00:12:19.580 of work that goes into one picture and depending on how nitpicky I can be if there's trash on the

00:12:24.980 ground I'll get rid of trash you're a part-time babysitter you're a picture wizard you make the

00:12:29.720 world look better you're leonardo da vinci i just want you to call yourself leonardo da vinci from 0.97

00:12:34.420 now on it is very funny one of my jokes though that i say to some clients they'll be like what

00:12:40.020 if we did this and i said nobody told picasso how to paint so let me do my job

00:12:45.780 there is so much work going into these pictures it's a magazine vogue people when i worked in

00:12:55.500 magazines, I worked with a lot of sleazy dudes. Sleazy men always got the good jobs. I was on one

00:13:01.460 fashion photo shoot when this middle-aged guy photographer asked a model if he could shave her

00:13:05.660 legs with a straight razor in front of everyone. And friends, she said yes. She said yes because

00:13:11.040 she was afraid to say no. And then he asked to shave her kitty. He said the word kitty. Gross.

00:13:20.120 And therefore, I am so fucking happy that women are getting these jobs. 1.00

00:13:25.500 And I am going to hire one of them. 1.00

00:13:29.080 Yup. 0.89

00:13:29.900 When we get back from the break, I'm hiring a lady photographer to make my family Vogue worthy. 0.97

00:13:36.180 Or at least Instagram worthy. 0.99

00:13:38.500 Or at least...

00:13:40.500 Worthy. 0.99

00:13:42.820 I really need some people to buy some shit from me. 0.99

00:13:50.900 We are still on step two. 0.99

00:13:52.240 take a beautiful picture

00:13:55.940 because i needed beautiful pictures i hired a photographer to take a week of content for me

00:14:02.560 down in philly influencer photographer is not really a full-time job

00:14:07.160 but i hired a wonderful journalistic and portrait photographer named andrea cipriani

00:14:12.180 who charged me 500 for a three-hour photo shoot now i am 500 in the red if you can do math that

00:14:20.620 means I have to sell 684.9 pairs of Target water shoes.

00:14:24.860 But I also need to find more things for us to wear.

00:14:27.360 If you've ever looked at Instagram,

00:14:28.560 you know that matching pajamas are a thing.

00:14:32.300 They're a big, big deal. 1.00

00:14:35.900 And the queen of matching pajamas

00:14:37.060 is this brand called Hannah Anderson.

00:14:39.540 To buy matching pajamas for the entire family

00:14:41.500 costs about $300.

00:14:43.840 So now we are $800 in the hole.

00:14:46.400 We have a lot of money to make up now, guys.

00:14:48.560 That is 1,095 water shoes.

00:14:53.780 Andrea, the photographer, was scheduled to come over on a Saturday morning.

00:14:57.480 Remember Saturday mornings when you were single?

00:14:59.940 So fun, relaxing, you like laid in bed all day.

00:15:03.040 Saturday mornings in my house are chaos. 0.99

00:15:05.320 They suck. 0.98

00:15:07.040 I meant to clean the house, but that plan went straight to hell. 1.00

00:15:10.660 So I just figured when Andrea got there, I'd be like shoot around all of my messy shit. 0.99

00:15:16.280 All I had to do in my messy house was wrangle my kids into these pajamas. 0.99

00:15:20.780 Oh, I've got the matching jammies.

00:15:23.400 I don't like those.

00:15:25.380 Why? Don't you want to match me and Daddy?

00:15:28.000 No.

00:15:28.760 Why?

00:15:29.200 I don't like those ones because they're too soft.

00:15:36.760 I don't like soft jammies.

00:15:41.700 Charlie agreed to put pajamas on, just not ones that matched the rest of us.

00:15:47.120 All he wanted was to be a little different.

00:15:51.120 Not off to a great start.

00:15:52.940 And I still had to prepare Nick for the day in store for us.

00:15:55.820 You're not.

00:15:56.620 Okay, so when Andrea gets here, we're going to do family jammy shoot.

00:16:00.460 Yes.

00:16:01.140 And she's going to shoot seven days of influence content.

00:16:05.680 Meaning we do what? 0.78

00:16:07.100 We have to change outfits seven times.

00:16:09.560 Oh, dear Lord.

00:16:09.960 all right well as you wish when nick says as you wish which he has done to me since our first date

00:16:17.240 i think of wesley from the princess bride and i love my husband all over again

00:16:22.360 i went outside to try to explain to andrea what we needed for this photo shoot 0.53

00:16:26.820 usually for something like this andrea would have a whole crew at least an assistant to like hold

00:16:32.720 some lights or something but i couldn't afford that but like the good client that carter taught

00:16:38.420 me to be, I did come up with a plan.

00:16:40.620 Hi.

00:16:41.080 Hi.

00:16:41.480 How are you?

00:16:41.760 Hey, Andrea.

00:16:42.500 So we're going to try for seven days of content.

00:16:44.340 Okay.

00:16:44.480 So I'm going to try seven different outfits. 0.92

00:16:46.260 Awesome.

00:16:46.980 We're going to start in matching jammies.

00:16:48.840 I love it.

00:16:49.460 And I think we should start outside.

00:16:51.100 And I think something funny would be Reservoir Dog style, walking down the street.

00:16:55.200 Totally.

00:16:55.600 In matching pajamas.

00:16:56.460 Okay, like right here.

00:16:57.920 Perfect.

00:16:58.240 Right here.

00:16:58.720 All right.

00:16:59.240 So we got started.

00:17:01.040 Three of us in Hannah Anderson matching Christmas pajamas.

00:17:04.780 Charlie in his plaid Target pajamas.

00:17:07.660 Come on.

00:17:08.040 Whose child is this?

00:17:10.040 Go, outside.

00:17:10.880 He's wearing the wrong jammies.

00:17:12.600 And everything went surprisingly well.

00:17:15.620 Photo!

00:17:16.520 Photo! 0.88

00:17:17.260 Photo! 0.88

00:17:18.320 Photo! 0.88

00:17:18.960 Photo! 0.88

00:17:20.360 Photo!

00:17:22.120 Okay, everybody look here.

00:17:23.960 Oh, I love it.

00:17:25.100 Love it.

00:17:25.640 Everybody marching in a line. 1.00

00:17:26.940 Here she comes.

00:17:29.940 I love it. 0.99

00:17:32.380 Oh my goodness.

00:17:34.000 Then we went inside.

00:17:36.200 Everybody on the bed.

00:17:37.560 Jump, and Mama Ted, you guys are just happy, relaxing.

00:17:44.600 This is your morning routine.

00:17:45.500 This is a morning routine. This is what I do.

00:17:50.600 It was a lot of fun for about an hour.

00:17:53.420 And then everyone was over it.

00:17:57.380 And that's when it started to feel like work.

00:18:00.460 And we still had six days of content to go.

00:18:02.800 The chaos set in, and my family started dropping like flies.

00:18:07.800 Surprisingly, Nick was the first to go.

00:18:09.800 Do I have to change, or can I wear these all day?

00:18:12.800 You done? That's it?

00:18:14.800 I don't know.

00:18:15.800 And then we started shooting some product photos in the bathroom.

00:18:18.800 Charlie lashed out and dumped all his plastic animals in the sink. 0.83

00:18:22.800 While I panicked, Andrea somehow kept her cool. 1.00

00:18:25.800 That's a Camelot dragon.

00:18:28.800 What's that Camelot dragon?

00:18:30.800 Oh, I thought that was a dinosaur. 1.00

00:18:33.840 And finally, B made a run for it. 1.00

00:18:36.980 B! B! 1.00

00:18:38.940 She's gone. 0.91

00:18:39.960 She's gone.

00:18:40.980 Oh, oh.

00:18:41.980 No, no, no. 0.84

00:18:43.160 Get back here. 0.99

00:18:43.840 Get back here. 1.00

00:18:44.300 B! 1.00

00:18:44.820 Biba!

00:18:46.520 We eventually finish and got about two and a half days of content.

00:18:53.120 It's a cliche to be like, it all ended in tears, but it did.

00:18:56.480 It really ended in tears.

00:19:00.800 I was so tired.

00:19:05.320 I mean, it was exhausting, right?

00:19:07.560 Yeah.

00:19:08.400 Yeah.

00:19:09.040 I'm sweating.

00:19:10.240 I'm sweating.

00:19:10.820 I'm sweating.

00:19:19.760 Part three.

00:19:22.740 Posting the picture.

00:19:25.140 You can't post your photo right away.

00:19:27.340 You might think you can. 0.58

00:19:28.580 You know, the way that Emily in Paris does it.

00:19:30.280 just taking a picture of any old croissant and uploading it. There it is. That is not real life,

00:19:36.120 my friends. You've got to edit that shit. Crop it. Apply some filters. Fade out your double chins. 0.99

00:19:43.860 So Andrea and I had to go through the photos, thousands of photos, and pick the best ones. 1.00

00:19:49.320 And then I had to choose a filter. Every influencer I talked to said the key is to stick with just

00:19:53.640 one filter to make your life look the same every single day. And we are not talking about just the

00:19:58.180 basic Instagram filters. No, no, no, no, no. Do not be an amateur. Influencers use something

00:20:02.620 called presets. These are predefined photo settings and some of the top influencers,

00:20:08.120 they will actually sell you their presets so that you can attain the exact amount of pink

00:20:13.320 hued perfection that they have. These cost between 20 and $250. So before you ask,

00:20:19.780 let me just answer your question. Yes, I spent a hundred dollars on a preset that will brighten

00:20:24.480 my photos, slightly alter the colors, and hopefully give me a nose drop. If you're keeping

00:20:28.680 track, I've spent $900 on this influencer project. That's... I don't even know how many fucking

00:20:34.860 water shoes that is. Now it's time to write your caption. To make yourself even more discoverable, 0.99

00:20:40.740 be sure to use keywords in your caption. The more detailed, the better. This part, right here. This

00:20:46.660 should have been easy because this is my actual job, writing words. But this is a different kind

00:20:52.920 of writing than what I'm used to. To make sure I was heading in the right direction, I made a phone

00:20:57.160 call. I always say like, think about it as if you're texting a friend. What would I text my

00:21:03.800 best friend from college if I sent her this picture? There's Amber Vinsbox again, reward

00:21:09.220 style founder and president. I called her when I couldn't figure out to write. So you're trying to

00:21:13.840 build a relationship with someone so that they know you more intimately and so that they feel

00:21:18.380 like you are giving them more access because ultimately the best influencers are the big

00:21:22.700 sister or the best friend. On top of finding the right tone, there's a lot of strategy to captions.

00:21:29.120 I talked to one woman about it. Danya Naguera is a micro-influencer who's just starting to pick up

00:21:33.560 some steam. She has almost 6,000 followers, but a lot of engagement on her account. And she told 0.92

00:21:39.880 me that she's building her audience through hashtags. Hashtags are huge. That helped me

00:21:45.220 get found for so many opportunities. I've received so many brands saying, hey, I found you through

00:21:49.700 the Black Moms hashtag. And so it's just crazy because I didn't have that many followers, but

00:21:55.920 my profiles stood out the most. And so they just chose me. So you really have to put your face on

00:22:01.940 the map because social media is a huge place. There's so many people on there. I'm so daunted

00:22:06.260 by hashtags. I have no idea what hashtags to use. What should I be tagging? Is tagging even the right

00:22:10.880 word anymore oh yeah that's a great word um you know when it comes to hashtags and I honestly fell

00:22:17.560 into this category as well well we think that you have to use hashtags that have millions of people

00:22:22.880 on there already but when it comes to making a post you need to zone in on a hashtag that has

00:22:28.580 between 30k to uh at most 500k it's good to kind of zone it down where the audience is still big

00:22:39.480 but you still have a chance to be seen.

00:22:44.080 This makes sense, right?

00:22:45.940 Let's think of each hashtag as an individual market.

00:22:49.560 You want a market that's not completely saturated

00:22:51.400 so that you'll be a small fish in a big pond.

00:22:54.320 The smaller it is, the bigger fish you are.

00:22:57.080 Marketing 101. 1.00

00:22:58.960 Tina Meeks is another influencer that I begged for advice. 1.00

00:23:02.320 She is killing it. 0.90

00:23:03.520 Through her Instagram account, her life sparkles,

00:23:05.640 and her influencing coaching business,

00:23:07.460 she made like $300,000.

00:23:09.480 last year and she explained caption writing in a way that resonated with me it's a double-edged

00:23:14.380 sword some people bear their souls in the name of being authentic and it's like girl you should

00:23:19.240 have kept that to yourself i'm like why did you put that on the internet you know you can't delete

00:23:25.560 it right i do want to make sure that i'm relatable but not so relatable that i feel like i have to

00:23:30.940 sell my soul for the internet there's just some things that you can keep to yourself

00:23:34.840 you have to draw the line somewhere or the internet will own you i talked to one woman

00:23:40.240 who actually wrote a novel about influencers and she describes the captions as writing in the quote

00:23:45.600 style of honesty i love that what i think that means is that you have to thread the needle

00:23:52.380 between real and too real too gross too messy a little bit of poop not a lot of poop a little 0.99

00:23:59.540 bit of breast milk not a lot of breast milk also never talk about your vagina 0.99

00:24:03.500 okay i'm doing this i'm writing this caption all right here i go 0.99

00:24:14.680 so the holidays might suck this year but matching jammies those don't suck

00:24:22.100 or i could say this like i was writing a news article you might think matching jammies are 0.79

00:24:30.680 the lamest. No, matching jammies are all the rage this year.

00:24:38.260 What's my head hitting the wall? I need a cookie. I have writer's block for maybe the first time in

00:24:44.640 my entire life. I need an editor. I like it when the microphone on the screen covers this part of

00:24:56.560 my face. Cause this part of my face is what I've been finding problematic lately. I'm losing,

00:25:00.980 I'm losing my neck. Isn't it early to be losing my neck? Nora Frant said 43. And, uh, I have to

00:25:07.620 say that even though the rest of my face seems to be holding up reasonably well, my neck, I was

00:25:11.940 almost at like exactly 43. When I go like this, you can see it. It's right here. Are we recording?

00:25:17.580 Yeah. This might be the first time in my life that I've ever gotten writer's block.

00:25:21.540 For what?

00:25:22.720 For trying to write these Instagram captions.

00:25:24.960 Oh, okay.

00:25:25.740 I'm a person that doesn't get writer's block because I worked for tabloid newspapers for so long where the editor said, write 800 words by 4 p.m. or you're fired.

00:25:37.120 Everything that I write seems really cheesy and lame and not true, maybe because I'm trying to mirror other influencers' content.

00:25:44.640 And maybe because I do really just want to tell the true story of this photo shoot, which is we have these matching pajamas, which even though they're kind of lame, I love them. 0.99

00:25:57.120 And seeing them on my whole family made me so stupidly happy and then miserable because my kids were fucking miserable. 0.92

00:26:02.940 And then I get the pictures back and I feel so warm and fuzzy and happy because the pictures are capturing only the delights. 0.99

00:26:10.440 I actually think that's your caption.

00:26:13.160 These photos brought me delight and joy and happiness.

00:26:16.120 The kids hated them, and I felt like I was...

00:26:18.820 Making them work in a factory.

00:26:20.160 Making them work in a factory.

00:26:21.380 However, I also want them to remember their childhoods as joyful too.

00:26:26.060 I think the solution to this is like,

00:26:28.360 you know exactly what these pictures represent to you.

00:26:31.380 And when you talk it out, it is so clear

00:26:34.400 that what you're telling me is what you're actually experiencing.

00:26:38.280 Maybe that was it.

00:26:39.900 That was the caption.

00:26:41.500 Here we go.

00:26:42.580 Taking matching jammy pictures was not the strangest thing I did this year, and I felt

00:26:47.920 a little cheesy, and it all ended in tears.

00:26:50.920 But at the end of the day, I love these pictures, and they make me happy in a weird and often

00:26:57.280 depressing terrible year.

00:26:59.360 I miss all of you, and I can't wait to hug, smooch, karaoke, and drink indoors with all

00:27:05.520 of you again.

00:27:07.020 Hashtag Hannah Jams.

00:27:08.340 Hashtag LTK family.

00:27:13.580 Hashtag ad break.

00:27:21.560 I haven't wanted to be liked this much since middle school.

00:27:26.580 It's true.

00:27:27.380 I have not cared about people liking me since about the sixth grade.

00:27:30.020 But now I care again because on Instagram, likes matter.

00:27:35.000 likes matter a lot but what matters even more than likes is engagement engagement is a big thing

00:27:43.380 for micro influencers now remember in the strata of influencers those are the influencers who have

00:27:50.080 between 1 000 and a hundred thousand followers i got 7 000 i'm like a nano and this is step four

00:27:58.600 grow your engagement or rather trick people into liking you and talking to you on instagram

00:28:05.980 now i called an expert tammy neely she's the vp of talent engagement for the agency

00:28:12.680 find your influence and she talked me through what engagement on social media actually means

00:28:17.320 now how do influencers get paid so influencers negotiate a rate and that is often based on

00:28:24.100 their total followers and then on top of that engagement rate so when you're scrolling through

00:28:30.640 Instagram you're seeing something and you scroll and you scroll you might like it but like it

00:28:35.960 that's kind of a vanity metric if you ask me what a true engagement rate is is if I stop and I post

00:28:42.280 a comment so I see someone posting something with a new pair of sneakers and I'm like oh my gosh

00:28:49.380 of those are so great. I might comment on there and say, what other colors do they come in? Or

00:28:54.120 can you buy those at Macy's or Nordstrom's? And that's a real engagement. And so influencers can

00:28:59.760 set their rates based on what that engagement looks like. And to be totally candid, when you

00:29:05.880 think about an engagement rate, like, oh, wow, what could that number be? Honestly, between three and

00:29:10.420 4% is a very, very good engagement rate. All right. I just opened my Instagram. I've got

00:29:16.000 7,900 followers who are pretty engaged. So let's do the math. 7,900 followers, 283 likes. So we're

00:29:26.000 not counting likes, right? We only count engagements. A like is an engagement. A like

00:29:30.480 is an engagement. Okay. All right. So 283 likes. I'm just, hold on. I'm not good at math. So I have

00:29:37.940 to open. How many comments are there? 10. Okay. So add 10 to your likes. Okay. So hold on. I'm

00:29:45.700 really I can't even do math on a calculator so my engagement rate is 3.7 percent yeah where where

00:29:53.960 where am I in the spectrum well if the average is between three and four percent you're just ahead

00:29:59.800 of the middle just ahead of the middle I mean do I have enough followers and engagement to be an

00:30:05.200 influencer on your platform like am I a micro influencer you are a micro influencer

00:30:08.780 hi nice to meet you oh i'm joe piazza micro influencer you may have heard of me

00:30:18.820 now say you don't have a very engaged audience say your audience doesn't like what you do

00:30:23.920 mine doesn't always like what i do in fact as i've tried to become an influencer i get a lot 0.99

00:30:28.760 of direct messages from my friends being like you fake ass bitch so say you don't have a very 0.96

00:30:33.940 engaged audience, or you want a more engaged audience to help boost your rates. There's a 1.00

00:30:39.220 hack for that. This whole world may be about authenticity and growing your audience authentically,

00:30:45.860 but there is a cheat code, comment pods. Essentially, it's just a group of influencers

00:30:52.900 who like and comment on each other's posts to make it seem like you're getting more attention.

00:30:57.620 They're a dirty little secret, and no one really likes to talk about them,

00:31:00.780 but I did get Donya to talk to me about how she used hers.

00:31:04.540 It is a little bit overwhelming and you kind of see how the big influencers are benefiting off

00:31:12.180 of it in this kind of creepy. Oh, tell me about that. I don't know. Once I found the comment

00:31:18.600 pods, I was like, whoa, this is crazy because in order to get into the comment pods, you have to

00:31:23.760 follow a certain amount of people. So everyone that started the page, it's usually a group of

00:31:29.860 moms and when you go on their page they have 50 at least 50 to 100k at the end of the day it's 1.00

00:31:37.820 boosting these big influencers now you can pay to get into a comment pod the going rates between

00:31:45.100 30 and 100 a week or there's an application process for like the fancier pods this is like

00:31:52.840 the sorority of instagram so they'll have a post that say 200 likes so if you comment on that post

00:31:59.840 200 or at least 199 other people will comment on there and that's the maximum once it hits 200

00:32:08.020 that maxes out and by the end of that day you have 24 hours to reciprocate whatever that is so if it's

00:32:14.360 200 likes you have to reciprocate those and then there can be another post that says likes and

00:32:21.280 comments or likes and saves there's different types of posts that you can engage in just to

00:32:26.000 boost up your post if you if you'd like so if if is it quid pro quo so if you give 200 likes you

00:32:33.220 get 200 likes back yes so for instance if you're on that feed and you happen to be the 200th

00:32:40.160 comment on there it locks in so that means you are guaranteed 200 likes on that post that you

00:32:47.960 placed in there now there are some people who don't reciprocate and they literally have a

00:32:54.600 back end of an excel sheet they're monitoring all of that so there's sometimes people get

00:33:00.380 blocked or kicked out if they don't reciprocate you usually get like three strikes if they catch

00:33:06.360 you doing it it's kind of like that push you know it's giving you that push to push you out there

00:33:12.200 because we're all just trying to boost our own platforms and then once you don't need it i've

00:33:18.060 heard of moms that just don't they don't need it don't they don't rely on anymore and so they just 0.91

00:33:21.780 stop using it. I was way too embarrassed to ask Donya how to get into one of the comment pods that

00:33:28.120 she's used. I started to ask, but then it felt kind of like asking someone the number of their

00:33:33.200 shrink or their Botox doctor, and I was just like, oh, there has to be another way. So instead of

00:33:39.560 getting into a comment pod, I just texted 20 of my friends, and I begged them to comment on my

00:33:45.320 picture. That went okay. The picture ended up getting almost 400 likes, which is about 200%

00:33:52.360 more than most pictures that I post. My most likes, and I want you to think about what your

00:33:58.520 most liked photos on Instagram are. My engagement announcement, my pregnancy announcement,

00:34:04.660 and my dog dying. It's what people like. Weddings, babies, dead dogs.

00:34:15.320 I have been in this game for a month now, broadcasting my life on the internet and

00:34:20.340 trying to get paid for it. It's changing my brain. It reminds me of something Susan Sontag wrote

00:34:28.160 about how photos make us see ourselves and the world differently.

00:34:32.880 We learn to see ourselves photographically. To regard oneself as attractive is precisely to

00:34:39.260 judge that one would look good in a photograph. Photographs create the beautiful and over

00:34:44.960 generations of picture taking, use it up. Whatever the moral claims made on behalf of photography,

00:34:53.360 its main effect is to convert the world into a department store or a museum without walls

00:35:00.080 in which every subject is depreciated into an article of consumption, promoted into an item

00:35:07.320 for aesthetic appreciation. 1.00

00:35:10.680 Sontag, that brilliant fucking woman, 1.00

00:35:13.520 was talking about the photo as the item of consumption. 1.00

00:35:17.160 But now photos on Instagram actually contain items

00:35:19.760 that can be consumed and bought.

00:35:22.140 You can literally consume the diaper bag and the blankets

00:35:24.300 and the matching pajamas in the photo.

00:35:26.940 Literally nothing I own is commissionable.

00:35:29.260 Shoppable.

00:35:30.220 After the rush of that successful post, there was a crash.

00:35:34.080 It reminded me of coming down off a wedding high.

00:35:36.120 after months of curating and organizing and thinking about this one day

00:35:41.420 and then actually achieving that day.

00:35:44.200 And I mean, I felt like I was on good drugs all day long.

00:35:47.240 But then I crashed hard on my honeymoon because it was over.

00:35:53.840 Same thing now.

00:35:54.600 I'm exhausted.

00:35:56.440 I feel exposed.

00:35:58.540 And funnily enough, I kind of feel dirty,

00:36:01.160 which seems like it should be impossible 0.99

00:36:03.120 because I did some dirty shit back in the day 0.99

00:36:07.300 as a celebrity gossip columnist. 0.99

00:36:11.640 But this feels different.

00:36:14.560 And I think that's because I'm putting myself out there

00:36:18.060 instead of putting other people out there.

00:36:22.140 I'm not going to lie to you. 0.99

00:36:23.780 This is fucking hard. 0.98

00:36:25.400 And I'm exhausted. 0.98

00:36:27.560 I need help.

00:36:29.440 Step five.

00:36:30.120 avoid burnout all right cool i'm hitting record so if we could start out just tell me your name

00:36:40.280 who you are and what you do sure so my name is josh zimmerman i am the first ever life coach

00:36:47.240 dedicated to creators creatives and executives josh is an influencer life coach i found him

00:36:54.640 from a profile written about him in the style section of the new york times how do you become

00:36:58.680 a life coach in this sector? Well, I mean, Joe, that's a great question. I wish more people would

00:37:04.860 ask that. Life coaching is not a government regulated industry, which means that anyone

00:37:10.980 can say they are a life coach, which is good and bad. The bad part about it is anyone can say

00:37:19.040 they're a life coach, which usually just means they like giving advice. So when I say I'm a

00:37:24.760 life coach a lot of people are like oh you're a therapist and i'm like nope definitely definitely

00:37:28.680 not this is a bummer because i really want some therapy right about now so there's a big difference

00:37:34.740 between therapy consulting and coaching fun fact josh's dad is also a life coach which makes him

00:37:40.540 the first multi-generational life coach that i've ever met josh is also accredited by a lot of life

00:37:46.140 coach association things that have a lot of initials after their name one thing that you need

00:37:51.500 to know while we have this interview is that josh doesn't use the word influencer he uses the term

00:37:56.660 creators for creators of content and he got his start working with youtube creators who were

00:38:02.200 burnt out i called him because i'm burnt out i'm burnt out on being a creator before i'm even

00:38:07.660 an actual creator but i am a micro influencer don't forget that i wanted to know how creator

00:38:13.900 burnout even became a thing because it's not like creators or brain surgeons or frontline workers

00:38:18.580 or even garbage men?

00:38:20.780 There's a couple different reasons, right?

00:38:22.820 One of the first ones is you're always on.

00:38:25.660 The other piece is that as a creator,

00:38:28.520 you are your brand.

00:38:29.960 You are your IP.

00:38:31.120 Where most of us get to go home at night

00:38:33.640 and turn the lights off in our office.

00:38:36.520 As a creator, you don't get to do that

00:38:38.020 because you are the office.

00:38:40.260 If you slow down, you don't make as much money

00:38:42.520 or you start to have other people coming up behind you

00:38:45.880 that are doing more.

00:38:46.800 And so you are on a hamster wheel. And so you just keep going until you're out of fuel and you just sputter to a stop. My job is to ask thought-provoking, powerful questions to help bring awareness and perspective to what you are trying to achieve and how we can help you get there.

00:39:08.880 I told Josh that I'm extremely overwhelmed thinking about all the work that goes into being a creator slash influencer, and that I am terrified of putting myself out there.

00:39:21.240 Well, good, you should be. You should be nervous. Because if you've been a successful journalist, you know how to tell a story. And you know that what's one of the most important things, if not the most important thing, is the why.

00:39:36.900 Why is someone reading this?

00:39:38.420 Why is someone watching this?

00:39:39.620 Why is someone feeling this way?

00:39:41.780 There's millions upon millions upon millions of people trying to do the same thing as you.

00:39:46.220 So the question is, what makes you so special?

00:39:48.660 I don't know.

00:39:49.820 Well, you sound like some of my clients, Joe.

00:39:52.460 Well, here's the thing, is that it takes an extremely, extremely strong person with

00:39:58.660 thick skin to be aware of and understand everything that goes into creating content.

00:40:08.080 Now, I don't want to talk you off any ledge because I would love for you to experience

00:40:13.280 what it's like. But I always say, you know, like, if you're not having fun doing it,

00:40:18.680 stop doing it. I'm not having fun. And I don't know if that's fair or not, but I'm not having

00:40:25.220 fun. In fact, doing this, trying to make a job out of Instagram, has made me despise Instagram a

00:40:31.920 little. I don't even want to scroll anymore. But maybe I'm not having fun because I feel like I'm

00:40:37.540 not good at this, and it feels terrible to be bad at something. That photo shoot took days of

00:40:43.020 planning, hours shooting, hours going through the photos and editing them with Andrea. I spent nearly

00:40:49.260 a grand on it. And now I am going to break some kind of influencer code. I'm going to talk about

00:40:57.280 money. I'm going to tell you exactly how much I made on that matching jammies photo shoot.

00:41:03.640 You ready for this? Zero dollars.

00:41:10.380 The specific Hannah Anderson jammies that we wore in that shoot, they weren't commissionable anymore.

00:41:15.520 So I couldn't link to them.

00:41:17.360 I went through the pictures and nothing else really worked.

00:41:20.160 They were adorable, but not shoppable.

00:41:25.520 My kids did not cooperate at all in that photo shoot,

00:41:28.500 which is the story of life with kids.

00:41:31.300 Nothing goes to plan.

00:41:34.940 I don't see how this is sustainable.

00:41:38.980 I am $900 in the hole.

00:41:41.000 I cannot afford to keep buying expensive products.

00:41:43.780 That photo shoot wiped me out financially and emotionally.

00:41:48.820 I do not have the energy to do that again.

00:41:51.260 And more than that, my family is not into it.

00:41:54.260 They are not having fun and they're not alone.

00:42:00.520 My mom is an influencer.

00:42:02.900 I am sick of being a part of it.

00:42:05.660 If there is no consent that can be chased in this equation,

00:42:09.600 then can we make an ethical decision at all?

00:42:11.520 That to me seems like a truly intractable problem when speaking about kids.

00:42:17.020 I was about eight years old when my mom started her blog, and I'm 26 years old now.

00:42:23.160 It's still something that I am recovering from.

00:42:30.680 Next week, let's talk about the kids, the adorable children who make this industry possible.

00:42:37.420 What is all of this doing to the children?

00:42:41.520 under the influence is reported and hosted by me joe piazza our story editor is glenis mcnichol

00:42:52.360 emily marinoff is our producer production assistance from mary do sound design by emily

00:42:58.180 marinoff and jessica kreinchich our theme and additional music was composed by jessica kreinchich

00:43:03.360 mixing done by jackie huntington additional research conducted by jocelyn sears julian

00:43:09.540 Willer is our consulting producer.

00:43:12.240 Manga Shadigador is our

00:43:13.500 executive producer. Thank you, thank

00:43:15.660 you to Andrea

00:43:17.340 Tipriani for spending so much

00:43:19.640 time with my family, taking a lot

00:43:21.560 of photos, and also just for being a

00:43:23.400 wonderful person to hang around with.

00:43:25.800 Thank you to my husband, Nick Astor,

00:43:28.120 for taking those photos with me,

00:43:30.100 for putting up with me,

00:43:31.340 for not divorcing me.

00:43:33.740 Last but not least, special

00:43:35.380 thanks to Anna Stumpf for being the voice

00:43:37.280 of the one and only

00:43:38.980 Susan Sontag

00:43:40.220 but there's also

00:43:41.580 only one and only 1.00

00:43:42.440 Anna Stumpf

00:43:43.100 love her

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - March 04, 2021

If You Build It, They Will Come

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