Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Let's Read Alone Together a Chat With the Co-Founder of Silent Book Club

00:00:00.000 hey y'all joe here and you are listening to under the influence before we get into today's episode

00:00:11.120 a quick reminder to get your orders in for the parisian heist yes now i know i know but it is

00:00:18.900 like the best girl math of all time you order it now you forget about it and then it's a gift to

00:00:25.300 yourself in July. So just take a little breather, put me on pause, put in your order, text a friend

00:00:31.640 and tell them to order too. And then keep listening to this amazing episode, which I am so obsessed

00:00:38.440 with. I love the silent book club concept so much. And getting to talk to one of their founders today

00:00:46.880 was such an incredible treat. I could have spoken to her forever. I am completely obsessed with

00:00:54.980 Guinevere de Lamar, the co-founder of Silent Book Club, and I just love what they're doing

00:01:01.200 to bring people together around reading quietly. I honestly think that reading quietly

00:01:08.520 will and can change the world. Because somewhere along the way, a lot of us stopped reading in

00:01:17.720 public. We stopped just being in rooms together without feeling like we had to prove that we were

00:01:24.560 working and doing something professional or with intense purpose. We traded books for our phones

00:01:32.160 and I don't think that that's been good for any of us. Guinevere started the silent book club as

00:01:38.360 a way to escape and just read a single uninterrupted chapter when she was a new mom.

00:01:43.500 And now it's turned into a global movement with thousands of silent book clubs across more than

00:01:47.500 60 countries. We talk about so much today. I mean, we even break into a little bit about the need for

00:01:54.020 a wealth tax and the perils of late-stage capitalism. But mostly we talk about reading

00:01:59.720 and how somehow reading in public for pleasure became something that we felt guilty about doing

00:02:08.080 and about why our phone looks more acceptable to be tapping away at than reading a book.

00:02:13.960 We also talk about how getting a bunch of strangers in a room to quietly read

00:02:19.900 can change people's brains and hearts and minds. This is a conversation about books,

00:02:26.100 but it's also about attention, community, and what it looks like to build something

00:02:31.020 new that you think just might change the world.

00:02:42.180 So I couldn't decide if our silent book club episode should just be the two of us

00:02:48.860 reading silently and not even speaking to each other. But then I decided that was probably bad

00:02:54.220 podcasting, right? I mean, I don't know that it would work for a podcast, but I think you and I

00:03:00.420 would have a great time. We would have so much fun. I'm obsessed with the idea of silent book clubs.

00:03:08.620 I just I love the idea of gathering in real life, of being in a room with other people who are also

00:03:16.920 doing something that they love and and you just you've been at the forefront of all this so number

00:03:22.020 one thank you thank you for doing this for your service well thank you for thank you for recognizing

00:03:28.900 that and for inviting me on to chat with you i'm i'm really excited i i just i love this stuff so

00:03:34.460 much and any opportunity i have to nerd out on books and community building and like you know

00:03:43.540 like shutting down the system i'm here for it yeah yeah no exactly exactly i want both i want

00:03:50.840 to do both at the same time i want to build community shut down the system end the patriarchy

00:03:55.880 solve menopause all of the things all the things all the things yeah all the things and i mean

00:04:02.920 i didn't know this so you know when when my co-founder laura and i first started this um

00:04:08.520 It was like 2012. I had a two year old at home and like Silent Book Club literally came out of me being like, I haven't finished a book in two years. The only way I'm going to get any reading done is to just get out of my house and and not be there for bedtime and bath time and dinner and like all of the all of the chores.

00:04:32.360 And so Laura and I, we lived in the same neighborhood. There was this really cute French bistro like in between our two houses. And I was like, hey, let's just go and drink wine and read like one chapter of our book. And then we can chat and gossip and hang out. But like, I just I just want to not be interrupted for one chapter.

00:04:56.460 Yes, yes, yes, yes. And yes. I can't help but interrupt you because yes.

00:05:00.260 Yeah, yeah.

00:05:01.200 And then, like, you know, fast forward, where are we, 14 years later?

00:05:06.540 And that two-year-old is 16 years old.

00:05:08.620 He's 16 years old.

00:05:09.460 He just got his driver's license two weeks ago.

00:05:11.680 Oh, my God.

00:05:12.540 No.

00:05:12.800 But you know what?

00:05:13.320 I just can't even.

00:05:14.060 Yeah.

00:05:14.600 He doesn't really like reading books.

00:05:16.440 He just loves me TikTok a lot.

00:05:18.280 It kills me.

00:05:20.020 Yeah, I have failed.

00:05:21.380 No, he's fine.

00:05:22.480 He's great.

00:05:23.980 He's fine.

00:05:24.900 He's great.

00:05:25.700 And I'm also I am actually I'm trying to solve for for young men not reading enough books by working on my own middle grade series right now to try to to try to keep them in, to try to keep them in there.

00:05:37.640 Yeah.

00:05:37.860 Oh, my God. I want you to say more. I want to know what this is.

00:05:40.540 Oh, well, I'm like I just started talking about it with other humans. It's been like a silent book club in my head.

00:05:47.020 So I've got I've got a dino kid and he's a big science kid. And frankly, a lot of the fiction out there, especially middle grade, is so fantasy based that he doesn't want to do it. And so it's fantasy based or it's graphic novels, which I do freaking love. Like, I love them.

00:06:05.440 But there's no, I'm not finding a bridge for kids like him for like super sciency, love to read an entire encyclopedia to get into like actual novel novels.

00:06:16.160 So I'm doing a middle grade series about a bunch of kids of paleontologists who are super sciency and STEMI and who solve all of these paleontology mysteries and may or may not fall into a multiverse where dinosaurs never died, which isn't fantasy.

00:06:31.260 It's more science fiction.

00:06:32.420 And my kid just read it and he freaking loved it.

00:06:34.580 So, yeah, we're doing that.

00:06:37.400 Oh, my gosh.

00:06:37.960 I love this.

00:06:38.520 It's sort of like, you know, it's like from the mixed-up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler, like, coming to life in the Natural History Museum, like, bringing together, like, all of these amazing, like, threads of imagination that, like, kind of also might have a little Indiana Jones, like, you know.

00:06:55.100 A little bit of Indiana Jones.

00:06:56.540 Some adventure.

00:06:57.320 Some adventure.

00:06:57.800 Yeah.

00:06:58.560 Yeah.

00:06:59.200 So, I'm just – because I see him.

00:07:00.400 I already see him drifting away from reading.

00:07:03.040 and he's a strong reader has always been a strong reader but i see him drifting away from the

00:07:07.640 fiction and i'm like no i'm keeping you in if i have to write these books myself i'm keeping you

00:07:11.440 here how old is he he's eight he's almost nine okay yeah so so you still have a window i will

00:07:18.840 say i do i think i do yeah because i mean much like i'm like well can't we solve the male loneliness

00:07:23.960 epidemic i'm like we'll solve this too we're women we solve all the things oh just fix it yourself

00:07:28.740 because you as an individual are responsible for your systemic inequalities in the world.

00:07:35.820 Yes, I am. Well, you guys saw a problem and and you'd fixed it yourself. You created this world

00:07:42.780 where people could do what the two of you were doing, which is go into a space, be in real life

00:07:49.120 together with people again and enjoy reading again. Keep keep me going with your story here.

00:07:55.800 Sure, sure. So, you know, a lot of it, I will say, did kind of come from reactionary roots, because one of the things we noticed, like the longer we did this, the more people, the more friends of ours that we pulled into it.

00:08:10.800 You know, like I can't tell you the number of times that like, you know, we would be sitting at a bar like with books open in front of us and like someone would come and always men, always men, you know, would be like, what are you doing?

00:08:27.680 Like, you know, or like, like looking at us like we're crazy for, you know, having a drink and not talking and just reading our books.

00:08:35.900 And we're like, look around.

00:08:38.420 I mean, how many couples do you see in this restaurant sitting across from each other staring at their phones?

00:08:43.360 But as soon as you replace a phone with a book, all of a sudden it's noteworthy.

00:08:49.420 And and I think that like and this was San Francisco, you know, in the 2010s.

00:08:54.460 And so like people became so inert to this idea that like, oh, it was fine to be like you weren't being antisocial if you were on your phone, because the idea is like, oh, well, you know, you are like, quote unquote, connecting with somebody on the other side.

00:09:13.240 Or you may be working. You might possibly be checking your email.

00:09:17.840 Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. But there's like something productive happening there.

00:09:21.040 Exactly. Exactly. Whereas book, whereas reading is so often seen as leisure.

00:09:25.320 leisure like selfish like something that you're just doing for yourself like completely sort of

00:09:34.160 like missing the whole point that there is like nothing that like exercises the empathy muscle

00:09:42.340 more than getting pulled into an entire world an entire story where you are like in the shoot like

00:09:51.360 you are experiencing the life of another human being like books are the I mean really like I

00:09:57.620 think the most efficient way that we have of like just stepping outside of ourselves to gain an

00:10:04.240 understanding on someone else's perspective of the world and like oh my god we need that as a culture

00:10:12.680 because we have like shifted into like from this sort of like American exceptionalism

00:10:19.640 all the way now like we are so backed into this corner of like just me first selfish like you know

00:10:31.460 greed to the point where like any kind of sense of like collective or community or we're in this

00:10:40.540 altogether has just been obliterated and so you know so i think that like anytime i can try and

00:10:50.140 like get the message across like and you know and this goes back to your eight-year-old too it's

00:10:53.980 like you learn so much more about the world and about the people who live in the world by like

00:11:02.000 essentially stepping into the brain of another human being who wrote a story by stepping into

00:11:07.700 these stories. I just absolutely I couldn't agree more. And you and I are around the same age. We

00:11:13.920 came up in the world, grew up and also became young adults in the pre-smartphone era where we

00:11:21.940 would see people reading more often in bars or on I mean, on the subway, especially. I mean,

00:11:28.780 they might be reading a newspaper or a magazine, but they were reading and not staring at a screen.

00:11:34.120 We had this modeled for us. There's a whole generation that did not have it modeled for them. And so anything we can do for people to see their people reading in public. And I think I think it is also a permission thing, especially with women. We want to be told that this is OK. Have you found that?

00:11:51.380 Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. You know, I think that the sort of I think of it as positive peer pressure. So one like one of my favorite things about a silent book club meetup and and maybe I should step back just for your listeners and give like a high level.

00:12:08.800 Keep going. Keep going to how this evolved. Yeah. Keep going.

00:12:11.600 Well, no, just in terms of the structure of how it works, because, I mean, the silent part is a little bit of a misnomer because the way that a silent book club meetup typically works is that a group of people gather in a public location.

00:12:26.760 So either a cafe, a bar, a restaurant, a park, a library, a bookstore, and for the first 30 minutes or so as people are arriving, getting settled, like maybe you're ordering drinks, so maybe you're just sort of chatting, you know, saying hello to the people around you, you're being welcomed by a host, you're sharing what you're reading.

00:12:48.760 So there is like socializing that happens. And then at a certain designated, like clearly delineated time, the host will say, okay, like the silent reading hour is beginning. And at that moment, everybody drops the conversation, picks up their book and begins reading.

00:13:10.800 and what is so funny is that it feels incredibly awkward at first all of us you know it's like it

00:13:17.200 feels a little performative you know you see people like especially if it's their first time

00:13:22.460 you're sort of looking around the room being like am i doing this right and you're like literally

00:13:27.920 like you're just reading um and and then like there's this hush that kind of settles around

00:13:35.180 the room when everyone just gets into it, you know, and like maybe you're hearing some pages

00:13:41.000 turning. Maybe you're hearing a little chuckle. Like I have heard a gasp, like, you know, but

00:13:48.020 but it is an experience that, you know, my co-founder Laura once once kind of compared it

00:13:56.360 to like Shavasana at the end of a yoga class where it is like it is a group of people who are

00:14:03.020 all sharing the same experience of just being in the moment and like just being together

00:14:09.720 without having to do anything but just exist in the space. And then after an hour,

00:14:18.920 your host will say like, and time's up. Some of them will ring a bell. Some of them will just

00:14:24.960 like turn up the music. But then at that point, it's just a free for all where you can start

00:14:30.440 chatting and socializing or for people who really just wanted to read, you can peace out. You don't

00:14:35.540 have to say anything to anyone. And, you know, and so so the reading time is bracketed by some

00:14:43.400 socializing. And, you know, and I think that one of the things that this structure creates and

00:14:50.940 allows for is for people to be like, hey, you know what? It's it's OK to like carve out this time for

00:14:58.780 myself to just read where nobody's asking you to do anything more and and being in a space where

00:15:05.680 everyone around you is doing it at the same time it reinforces the behavior right it makes you feel

00:15:13.280 like oh yeah like we're all in this together we may be reading different books but we're all

00:15:18.980 committed to to making this a priority right right we're we're all getting lost in worlds together

00:15:26.680 which I just think is such a cool and beautiful thing.

00:15:31.040 I'm pushing it more and more.

00:15:33.020 My son, as he becomes, you know,

00:15:36.280 like as he keeps evolving in his reading.

00:15:39.780 And I have gotten him to read some novels.

00:15:43.400 They're very adult novels.

00:15:45.520 I mean, he read Jurassic Park.

00:15:47.140 He's reading Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

00:15:50.040 It's great.

00:15:50.960 Yes.

00:15:51.700 Love it.

00:15:52.440 And, but again, I want to keep his interest

00:15:55.260 with things that are just a little more geared towards him. But as he's been reading more,

00:15:59.380 we like read silently and bent together. So like we don't interact, but we're both reading our

00:16:05.660 books at the same time. And I got to say, there's just like a really good feeling in the air while

00:16:10.580 we're doing that. It just, you know, like it feels good because your brain is working and your body

00:16:18.180 is resting and uh and we ask so much of our bodies and our brains like i mean you know the

00:16:27.540 the amount of information that we are processing i mean this when i look at this generation when

00:16:33.180 i look at like at our kids and i mean on the one hand like it's incredible to me just how

00:16:40.980 much they know i mean i like the amount of like the the amount of topics that my son can speak

00:16:49.620 about because he's read about it he's researched he's curious he chases down these rabbit holes

00:16:54.400 like you know whether it's politics or like car engines or like the the the sort of like

00:17:04.700 machinations of the formula one, like behind the scenes politics, you know, I mean, it's like,

00:17:10.520 it's, it's just insane. But then at the same time, we're all stretched so thin. And I think

00:17:16.020 that what reading does, at least, you know, at least for me, is like, it just sort of

00:17:22.400 narrows, it's like you put blind blinders on a racehorse, right, where they're just able to

00:17:28.160 kind of focus on one thing and like what a gift to be able to just focus for you know for even a

00:17:36.740 short amount of time like it's it's really hard to do and so if we can kind of help people find

00:17:44.000 that little oasis of of calm and quiet um to tune out the noise for a minute like that like that

00:17:54.660 that's a win. I totally agree. I totally agree. Let's take a quick break. And when we get back,

00:18:01.640 I want to talk about how you guys have grown, because this has just taken off. It's become a

00:18:08.600 movement. And I think that that is really, really inspiring. So let's dig into that a little bit

00:18:14.040 when we get back okay we are back talk to me about how much you've grown since you were sitting in a

00:18:28.840 cafe with a two-year-old at home just reading with one of your girlfriends like how many people are

00:18:33.600 doing this now i mean you know so the the truthful answer is we don't know it's more than a million

00:18:43.380 around the world. I mean, what we do know is that we have more than 2000 local chapters in 65

00:18:51.580 countries, across six continents, where there is a volunteer organizer in their community that

00:19:01.300 they're bringing people together. Sometimes it's every week, sometimes it's a couple times a month,

00:19:07.280 Sometimes it's just a monthly meetup. But I think that the thing that has surprised me most about the growth is how universal this experience is.

00:19:19.780 I mean, it works across cultures, across religions, across age, generations, gender.

00:19:28.540 You know, it truly is like, I mean, reading and community are like so inherently human that there is that that that it's a formula that that works everywhere.

00:19:45.280 um and so the growth has been i mean this is we we could not have ever imagined that and you didn't

00:19:53.340 right like you did not predict this absolutely not no no so you know initially in the early years

00:19:58.100 it was purely word of mouth and then you know and then these were also sort of the early days of

00:20:02.320 social media so um you know i mean we we sort of posted on instagram and facebook with the hashtag

00:20:08.740 silent book club and then our friends were like what is silent book club and then we told them

00:20:14.020 and they're like, cool, can we join?

00:20:15.580 And so then it became, you know,

00:20:17.180 there were 10 of us meeting up in San Francisco

00:20:19.180 and then one of our friends moved to Brooklyn

00:20:21.760 and she was like, oh, you know what?

00:20:23.580 Like, I'm going to do this with my friends in Brooklyn.

00:20:26.560 And so then we're like, oh, this is so cute.

00:20:28.520 We have like a little bi-coastal book club.

00:20:31.860 And then it was a friend in LA.

00:20:33.880 It was a friend in Seattle.

00:20:35.920 And at that point it was like,

00:20:38.300 ah, like we might be onto something here.

00:20:40.760 so um you know so we so we initially just started by like grabbing the handles on various social

00:20:50.240 networks you know it was at that point twitter and facebook i mean oh god do you remember when

00:20:55.140 twitter used to be good like i do i do circa like 2010 2010 even even until like 2015 book

00:21:05.540 tour used to be such a nice place to be. It was, oh my God, you could just talk to people. You

00:21:10.780 could meet, like you could, you could have a conversation with authors. You can, so I will say,

00:21:14.720 you know, in my previous life, like, so I was working in traditional publishing in San Francisco

00:21:21.080 at Chronicle Books. And my job from about 2010 to 2015 was like their first community manager.

00:21:29.440 So I was a I was a marketing writer and I was in charge of sort of like the brand voice and being in San Francisco tech was very much on the rise. And so like I brought the publisher on like we were the first book publisher on Pinterest because Chronicles books were so visual and so beautiful that it was just ready made for for that platform.

00:21:50.380 But but yeah, by 2015, it was like we were done. It was advertising had sort of like come in. The algorithms were sort of just getting started. And and that's and that's that's when I left.

00:22:02.540 But I will say those early days of online community building were the sort of the seeds for everything that followed because it made me realize how important the online offline connection needed to be.

00:22:20.800 Like one really fed the other. But what I think that that those of us who were there from the beginning realized very early on was that online was not enough.

00:22:32.540 like this whole sort of concept that like, you know, these like digital connections were

00:22:37.180 going to strengthen the bonds like that, that was not accurate.

00:22:41.960 And as we have now seen it play out, we've very much, you know, have has have proven

00:22:47.680 that that that's like a complete fallacy, like and also the way that that money corrupts.

00:22:54.800 I mean, it was it was really the advertising models and then the changing the algorithms

00:22:59.980 and the feeds to be able to boost.

00:23:02.540 sub-profits for the corporations that sort of destroyed any semblance of like the positive

00:23:08.340 connections that you were going to be able to to to make online but i digress i also i just i just

00:23:15.160 i just want to pull that one line that you just said online is not enough online is not enough

00:23:20.700 it just i think we're all so desperate to get back into real life into real life community

00:23:27.080 to communities again it was not enough no no and i think it's so funny because now you know

00:23:33.060 so like every year event bright like publishes its trends and you know like you know at first

00:23:39.840 it was all about like third spaces and then it was fourth spaces and and now it's like wait what's a

00:23:45.180 fourth space i know what a third space is what's a fourth space what's a fourth space it is like

00:23:49.720 the sort of um the the like the very gen z phenomenon of like forming a club around like

00:23:59.060 like basically organizing activities that take place with a group of people sort of like like

00:24:05.120 running clubs and like all like essentially like what silent book club was years ago has now become

00:24:13.180 like you know uh uh uh a social trend um and and so it doesn't necessarily like a third place is

00:24:22.440 an actual physical location that you know that that you will gather that's like outside of the

00:24:28.220 home outside of work and a fourth space is sort of like a at least this is my understanding or

00:24:33.560 my vague recollection of of this article that i read like a year ago but uh but yeah but but it's

00:24:39.420 like people creating spaces like for groups amongst themselves and so it doesn't necessarily

00:24:44.980 need to exist in a physical location um but yeah i just saw another one come out last week that now

00:24:51.200 like this year is all about soft socializing so you know wait wait okay all right so now so

00:24:58.960 so forget the hard socializing um is this i mean why do we have to name everything uh is soft so

00:25:06.560 But does soft socializing just have like a lower barrier to entry?

00:25:09.980 You think so?

00:25:10.680 I think it's like you're just asking.

00:25:11.960 Like it's like a low ask.

00:25:14.160 Right.

00:25:14.460 Like it's no pressure.

00:25:15.700 It's not, you know, like life is hard.

00:25:17.220 So like let's just like get together.

00:25:19.100 And it's what's so funny to me is that, yes, this is like kind of like, I mean, I think

00:25:24.600 it's just like taking like an old school SEO approach to like, oh, we have to name everything

00:25:30.580 so that we can write an article about it so that we can then like form a trend around

00:25:35.800 it so that we can then monetize that trend like that i think that that's the progression that's

00:25:42.540 the thing we can't monetize it unless we name it people like it just gets harder to make money off

00:25:48.000 something and that is what everything has become about right is like can we make money off of it

00:25:54.120 and you know why because of the systemic failures of being able to actually support an economy like

00:26:01.300 a population take care of a population yeah yep is this where we start talking about the wealth

00:26:08.920 tax because i can always find a way to talk about the wealth tax oh absolutely you know what i will

00:26:13.620 say i just turned down i um i don't know if actually i should tell this story publicly i'm

00:26:18.120 gonna tell it to you anyway tell us to me anyway and if you decide we want to cut it out we'll cut

00:26:21.660 it out okay actually i think i'm okay with it but like um so like yeah like i had somebody reach out

00:26:27.920 about like wanting to see if they could do some programming with silent book club like in

00:26:31.500 partnership with audible and i wrote back and i was like hi like thanks for reaching out but no

00:26:36.700 like we like our organization is all about supporting independent bookstores we do not

00:26:43.180 work with amazon and audible and you know and like it it doesn't align with our values um and

00:26:51.500 and so like respectfully decline and i like you know like i sent it and i was very nice about it

00:26:57.500 I sent the email. Yeah. And then my, you know, and then I was sort of like laughing with my team.

00:27:02.700 I'm like, I'm sorry, you guys, I'm just really bad at capitalism.

00:27:07.340 No, I love this for you. Like, did it feel so good afterwards?

00:27:13.340 I mean, absolutely. And you know what? The person that wrote back was like, like, thank you.

00:27:19.520 And like, I mean, and it was it was such a kind response.

00:27:22.740 Because the person who wrote back is probably just like you and me on the inside and is just

00:27:27.220 And like just needs a freaking job because we need health insurance to support our families.

00:27:30.420 And they're like, I know this cool thing exists.

00:27:32.380 I'll try this thing.

00:27:33.440 And so in their head, they're probably like, good for you.

00:27:35.960 I mean, yeah.

00:27:37.060 And, you know, I like to say so.

00:27:39.000 So a lot of people don't know this, but like Silent Book Club is my side project.

00:27:45.500 It's my passion project.

00:27:46.540 I have a day job like that has because I have to pay the bills and I have a kid that I have

00:27:52.380 to put through college and like and my family needs health insurance.

00:27:57.220 And so, you know, so I like to say that, like, you know, like my day job pays the bill and Silent Book Club fills the bucket.

00:28:06.220 But the reality is that I work all the time.

00:28:11.320 I work all the time.

00:28:12.460 I work all the time.

00:28:13.280 Same.

00:28:13.900 Same, same and same.

00:28:15.340 Yeah.

00:28:15.620 Yeah.

00:28:15.940 And frankly, so does every woman I know right now.

00:28:18.820 Uh-huh.

00:28:20.060 Yes.

00:28:21.680 Yes.

00:28:21.940 Yeah.

00:28:22.020 Yes. And Helen Peterson writes a sub stack called Cultural Culture Study. And she recently published an article about, like, why are so many women out there looking for jobs for their husbands? And essentially, like, oh, my God, I didn't see that one. I subscribe, obviously. But, you know, there's a lot of things out there to read. And I miss things.

00:28:44.620 What was fascinating about the article was that so much of kind of like the stories that she was sharing was about how like it is like, I mean, A, because, you know, essentially since like the feudal system, like white men have just expected that they will like inherit the farm and things will land in their lap and they will not actually have to like go out and do anything to get what they're entitled to.

00:29:10.340 And also that like, you know, because women have never had that same expectation that anything is just going to like be given to them, like we're used to having to just like fight for every crumb.

00:29:25.460 And because of the way that like, you know, women are so much more sort of like skilled at building and maintaining social ties when it comes to like, OK, like, you know, networking and using the networks and the, you know, and trying to sort of reach out and who knows who and like all of that kind of like or like being in Facebook groups around a certain

00:29:55.440 And like, you know, whether it's a neighborhood or whether it's a mom group or whether it's, you know, like essentially all of like our role as sort of like the connectors has now had to like grow to encompass like the job, the workforce, because the system has broken down to the point where like, you know, the wealth inequality.

00:30:24.160 let's get back to the wealth tax um you know has has essentially like you know all of the the way

00:30:30.600 that things used to work where you could go to college you could get a job you could retire 1.00

00:30:34.860 like all of that's gone and guess what it's falling on individual women to feel like they

00:30:40.540 have to fix this themselves it sure is it's a great article go look it up oh my god i can't

00:30:48.520 wait to read it i'm i'll actually i'll email her right now and ask her just to come on the show

00:30:52.420 so we can talk about it because we don't need to uh you don't need to leave that whole section

00:30:57.620 i want to know i want to know that was no that was amazing i mean it really was because i mean

00:31:02.220 like we talked about earlier in the episode where i'm like oh i just i see a hole in the market of

00:31:06.800 middle grade and i'm gonna write this book because not because there's a hole in the market i mean

00:31:11.100 even though i love making money to support my family that is a thing i have to do but because

00:31:15.780 i see it as my job to keep my son reading to keep him from becoming and like getting absorbed into

00:31:24.260 the manosphere um so and to save this next generation because part of me thinks that there

00:31:29.100 is like a lost generation now um and that we might just be like oh okay we lost those guys

00:31:34.240 but now but we can but we can focus on the ones that are under 20 you can get them back um but 0.95

00:31:40.400 it's such a like i mean it's just such a woman thing to be like i can fix all of this i'll just

00:31:44.720 fix all of it i just won't sleep well joe i mean nobody else is going to do it for you no they're 0.99

00:31:49.820 not so like we don't have a choice we don't have a choice yeah we don't have a choice all right

00:31:57.260 let's take one more break and when we get back we're going to talk about happy things which are

00:32:01.720 reading alone in bars together and how this is actually playing out in real life and the changes

00:32:07.320 that you're seeing in people when they come to one of these events

00:32:11.540 okay we are back silent book club for members of my audience who've never

00:32:25.300 been to one first off tell me tell tell them how they can find one yeah so um we have a map

00:32:34.920 on our website um so if you go to silentbook.club um there's a tab at the top that says find a

00:32:41.780 chapter and essentially you can type in your zip code you can type in your city and it will zoom

00:32:46.620 you in to your area and um and more often than not there will be a silent book club um within reach

00:32:57.120 uh and if there's not we have instructions on how you can set one up because literally like all you

00:33:03.540 need is one other person. That's how Laura and I started it. It was just the two of us. What we do

00:33:08.100 is we connect. So we have a central hub that then connects you to this incredible network of local

00:33:17.460 organizers, local volunteers, and each person maintains their own, their own chapter, their own

00:33:23.960 club. So they determine where they meet, how often they meet and, you know, and, and while the general

00:33:31.440 structure of the meetup is the same, there's so much creativity that comes from the ground up.

00:33:39.440 So we have chapters that, you know, they'll meet twice a month and one of the meetups will be a

00:33:45.200 traditional bring your book, sit down and read. And then the other meetup, like they'll do a side

00:33:52.100 quest where maybe they'll do an audio book walk where everybody will plug in their headphones

00:33:57.700 and go and like do a hike or do a bookstore crawl um you know some groups will will go um

00:34:06.420 and have a meetup on a commuter train so you know we saw like in in Cape Town they took over like

00:34:14.420 an entire train and they they basically went on a journey together um we've seen uh we've seen

00:34:20.560 chapters uh in different cities kind of like all joined together um in detroit a bunch like i think

00:34:28.900 eight chapters got together to do a river cruise so they have these special events um so there's a

00:34:35.660 huge variety of of activities and and all of it is really around the kind of like shared experience

00:34:44.380 of bringing together a group of strangers who have a common interest. And that is a love of

00:34:52.060 books and a love of reading. Do they ever pick the same book and read them together?

00:34:58.620 So not at Silent Book Club. So a lot of people will be in a traditional book club,

00:35:05.900 sort of in addition to Silent Book Club. But the core kind of founding philosophy of a silent

00:35:13.960 book club beat up is that there is no assigned reading. So like our tagline is bring your own

00:35:20.240 book. So it's BYOB. And what that allows for is this, the sense of, of kind of eliminating the

00:35:27.660 need for anyone to feel like there is like homework assigned. So, you know, part of the

00:35:34.740 reason, you know, when, when, when Laura and I first started, like it, it actually kind of came 0.97

00:35:41.480 out of a conversation where I was in a traditional book club at work and I was like, God damn it, 0.76

00:35:47.020 I have to finish this book. I hate it. I don't want to read it. Like, I don't have time to read 0.98

00:35:51.200 it. But I felt so much pressure to like, I can't show up like without having like done the

00:35:57.880 assignment. And then I have to say something smart because we're going to be talking about

00:36:01.680 like book guide discussion questions. And we just wanted to like take all of that off the table.

00:36:07.420 So no, we don't aside reading.

00:36:09.480 We do recommend books, though.

00:36:11.440 So one of the things that we launched this year is a monthly spotlight called SBC Reads.

00:36:18.500 And really what that does is it highlights a specific title across many, many genres

00:36:25.680 to just sort of help people discover more books.

00:36:29.460 Because one of the things that we hear that people appreciate most about attending a silent

00:36:34.680 a book club meeting is being able to get book recommendations from real people. So it's sort of

00:36:42.740 like what you get when you walk into a really good indie bookstore and the bookseller is, you know,

00:36:47.540 you can go up and be like, hey, I'm looking for something that's kind of like this, or I really

00:36:52.640 loved this. What should I read next? And those personalized human recommendations, I've always

00:37:00.660 found them to be you know so much better than just whatever the algorithm like spits up of like oh my

00:37:06.600 god they're perfect they're perfect we need we need more of them yeah i mean i have like three

00:37:10.500 or four friends who are booksellers who all read anything they recommend to me and it's perfect

00:37:17.740 it's how i found the bringing down the duke series the victorian romance about suffragists that like

00:37:23.960 just like shag sexy guys but also try to get the vote for women yeah it's how i found the emma lyon

00:37:28.780 series. And I'm not a romance girly, but like they recommended those and I trusted them.

00:37:33.980 Yeah, it's so important. Also, the algorithm is now also so determined by capitalism because it's

00:37:40.940 which books the publishers can afford to send a million galleys of to promote to influencers,

00:37:48.580 right? So that's why you see the same books on your feed over and over again. It's not like they

00:37:54.100 actually love them. It's what they got. Exactly. No, it's so true. I mean, it's like end caps in

00:37:59.960 bookstores. They're not facing out just because they're pretty. The publishers pay to have the

00:38:06.960 covers facing you. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. But guess what? Handwritten shelf talkers

00:38:14.080 by booksellers. You can't pay for those. Those are real. Yes, they are. Yeah. This is something

00:38:20.320 that i wish for every reader like may you find your like book buddy soulmate like mine is my

00:38:29.860 friend hannah who is brief book reviews on instagram and i don't know if i follow follow

00:38:35.140 hannah should i follow hannah right now go follow hannah right now um she's amazing she and i worked

00:38:39.780 together like donkeys years ago like at chronicle books in san francisco circa 2008 but um no but

00:38:47.020 hannah and i like we just we share the same sensibility and literally like i know that like

00:38:54.140 if if it's a five-star read from her if it's a recommendation from her i'm gonna love it

00:39:00.160 and you know and and there are a lot of you know i mean it's like i don't like sci-fi i mean okay

00:39:06.660 yes i read project hail mary it was fine but it's just not for you and that's okay that's cool yeah

00:39:13.060 um i'm i'm a obnoxious person that like i like literary fiction i also really like romance i

00:39:19.440 you know but like when you find someone else who like you just know that like if they love it the

00:39:25.380 chances of you loving it are like right up there then like hold that person close to your heart

00:39:32.580 and lean on them and lean on them yes yes i mean like that is that's what we need we need we need

00:39:39.540 more of the good book like but it's like anyone can be good at recommending certain types of books

00:39:44.960 that's the thing like it's just you have to find your person who reads the same way you do i don't

00:39:49.940 do a lot of literary anymore like i like a really i love commercial books i do but it took me a while

00:39:55.320 to figure that out like i think like everything i just like no more now that i'm in my 40s

00:40:00.000 yeah well i also feel like covid did a real number on like my and the state of the world

00:40:05.280 in general like you know post january 6th i mean the the current state like i have a much harder

00:40:10.600 like i i will only listen to audiobooks that are basically like romances or psychological thrillers

00:40:17.100 because like i just can't take like i i don't have the attention span um and i it you know if

00:40:25.020 something is gonna ask a lot from me both intellectually and emotionally like there are

00:40:30.280 many days where I don't have it in me. Right. I know. I know. I also DNF more than ever because

00:40:37.960 I don't I don't waste my time. Absolutely. Oh, my God. One hundred percent. And all and I'll

00:40:45.020 also skip ahead to the end just because I'm like, I'd like to know what happens, but I don't want

00:40:48.740 to be with you any longer. I love that for you. I'm not able to. I don't. I just throw it out

00:40:55.040 the window okay okay i mean most of the time i do i do that a lot too but like sometimes i'm like oh

00:40:59.780 this setup is really good and i think the twist is gonna be like i want to know what it is but i

00:41:05.620 don't want to be with this person on the page for any any more time at all absolutely okay so i hear

00:41:12.640 i have a question for you joe i want to talk about um okay like do you as a as a person with a public

00:41:20.300 persona like yeah do you rate books online and okay so here's here's my approach if i love it

00:41:29.480 if i love it four stars five stars i'll i'll put that down if i don't love it i don't rate it 0.99

00:41:35.220 because nobody needs that shit like nobody needs that shit because books are qualitative 0.99

00:41:39.800 okay books are subjective like it depends on you don't go on there and give someone a two-star 1.00

00:41:45.180 review right yeah yeah 100 and like and just because like exactly what you say like just

00:41:51.500 because i didn't like it i will say there have been a few times where i have been so angry like

00:41:57.640 that like there might be something that is just so bad and should never have been published like

00:42:02.680 that like i might i might lash out very rarely i have a really good reason but uh but yeah like a

00:42:12.140 three star like what if it's fine like first of all like guess what like author anonymous author 0.97

00:42:20.480 whoever you are out there like you published a fucking book like big deal that's a big hard 0.89

00:42:25.040 deal it's hard thing to do yeah that's an incredible accomplishment it's not for me to 0.99

00:42:29.500 shit on it like if it's like it's not for me to shit on it it's more than i've done i haven't

00:42:34.140 published a novel so guess what like if it wasn't for me it wasn't for me but i'm like there's like 0.99

00:42:38.920 there's i i don't i don't understand the like no it's just no no for a three star nor do i like

00:42:46.480 um the obsession with rankings now like i'm very cool with a review that's like this is what i

00:42:53.360 liked about this book this is what i didn't like because that might help people who are like oh i

00:42:58.820 don't really i don't like strong language someone gave me a one-star review because they didn't like 0.88

00:43:02.680 the cursing in my book and i really just want to be like fuck you i mean come on come on not on 0.97

00:43:10.800 guess what that's not it's not on me it's not on me that's your jam okay but don't give me a one 0.99

00:43:15.100 star review that messes up like my whole algorithm and literally ruins my potential for reaching

00:43:20.540 other readers and that's why i don't like this system i hate goodreads rankings love the idea

00:43:25.560 reviews, I hate a ranking. And so, yeah, but I personally, I never shit on other authors or

00:43:33.100 books publicly because I know how hard it is to write a book. I only rave about things. So if I

00:43:38.540 love something, I will share it all over the place. I will rave about it. I have my own little

00:43:43.940 pop-up indie bookstore called The Bookcase, and I only carry books that I like. I don't care if

00:43:48.940 it's the number one bestseller of this year. If I don't like it, if I can't legitimately talk to

00:43:53.840 readers about it. I'm not buying it for the store. I'm not selling it. Yeah. And I think that this

00:43:58.520 goes back to like, what does it mean to be a values driven? And how have we gotten to a place

00:44:06.800 where that is such an anomaly? You know, like, I mean, to be guided by morals, to be guided by

00:44:13.240 like, you know, doing what's right. Like, let that be inspirational for others. Let that be

00:44:18.520 inspirational and just keep trying. Right. Because like, I don't personally, I don't feel

00:44:23.260 like I have a choice. I'm like, you have to keep trying. I know it's exhausting to try to fix

00:44:27.440 everything, but if you're not doing it, who is? So why not? Why not? And yeah, I'm bad. I am bad

00:44:35.740 at capitalism when it comes to some things. I'm very good at capitalism with other things. So I'm

00:44:39.680 like, okay, make money doing this thing so that you can reject capitalism in all of the other

00:44:44.600 things 100 i mean that so okay uh i want to talk a little bit about reading retreats because please

00:44:55.980 do yes this is it's my it's my current obsession it's my it's it's sort of my latest i love travel

00:45:01.860 i love books i love the like the community and the bonding that silent book club has has you

00:45:08.120 know has sort of like manifested for so many people and i like am pulling them all together

00:45:16.100 in kind of our latest like in in in my latest entrepreneurial sort of like path um because we

00:45:24.400 last november we launched our first international reading retreat where basically uh we're now doing

00:45:31.940 like these curated travel experiences for introverts and readers this is this is absolute

00:45:38.460 perfection i mean this is my dream yeah keep going yes so so yeah so it's like okay like

00:45:43.700 we went to costa rica in november um i hosted a meetup here in in hawaii on oahu where i live

00:45:50.200 and then i'm taking a group to italy in june and then in november we're gonna go to iceland

00:45:57.700 and, like, rocked under the Northern Lights.

00:46:00.140 Yeah, you are.

00:46:01.400 Are you going to hang out with the First Lady while you're there? 0.64

00:46:04.280 With Eliza?

00:46:05.780 I don't know, but maybe now I should.

00:46:08.400 I think you should.

00:46:09.120 She's an author. 1.00

00:46:09.980 So she's an author and just a bad-ass amazing lady. 1.00

00:46:14.500 She's got a new book coming out soon, I think. 1.00

00:46:16.600 She wrote a really good book about being the First Lady of Iceland.

00:46:20.400 And she's very accessible and just, like, super normal and cool.

00:46:24.480 I would reach out to her if I were you to see if she wants to just chat with the group.

00:46:29.560 That sounds incredible.

00:46:31.000 We are also going to be there during the Iceland Noir Literary Festival, which is a literary

00:46:39.100 festival that's all based around like noir and crime and thrillers and like dark books

00:46:44.680 for like the dark winter.

00:46:46.640 We launched it about two weeks ago and it's sold out in 20 minutes.

00:46:51.080 I believe this.

00:46:51.620 so now i'm like okay well i guess i'm going to add some more iceland dates because clearly like

00:46:58.200 people are into it i know why i got on this topic because um because yeah like so we have to make

00:47:04.660 money right and like and and so silent book club you know i i feel very strongly about like you

00:47:11.520 know about like these events are free silent book club like they should be all inclusive they should

00:47:18.680 welcome all readers they should be like we should be supporting the businesses that are hosting it

00:47:23.560 you know there are other sort of like copycat knockoffs that are now selling 20 30 tickets

00:47:29.420 to like come to a reading event and like literally like bro like that's not what this is about like

00:47:36.380 so you know at the same time like how do you you know how do you build community how do you hold

00:47:44.700 space for all of this work to be able to happen, but then also pay your bills. And it's like, oh,

00:47:52.100 I know. I'm going to become a travel provider. And so my dream is that someday I'm going to be

00:48:02.120 able to retire and just go travel around the world, bring people together, read books, and

00:48:07.060 like, okay, that sounds like an okay business. I can do that. That is a great business. And that

00:48:12.680 is, you know, also what I think it's such a such a smart way of approaching this because, you know,

00:48:20.400 you're asking to be compensated for your labor here, which is a really important thing. And I

00:48:24.960 think women often have a hard time doing that. You're planning amazing experiences for people. 1.00

00:48:29.600 And like that is something that absolutely you should be compensated for. And I think these

00:48:36.880 reading retreats and there I see so many women going on them now and coming back so just freaking

00:48:43.300 energized I 100% agree like I mean like I love the idea of a writing retreat but also like god

00:48:51.780 that sounds like work I could I could talk to you for hours and hours and sadly I have to go

00:48:56.100 be a mother and take care of my children who I can hear they're like my husband's always like

00:49:00.620 don't go upstairs and then the second he like turns around or goes outside like all of them

00:49:04.960 are like, hi. Scampering. Scampering. Yeah. We missed you. Will you tell everyone how they can

00:49:12.480 find you and also sign up for these amazing life-changing retreats? I'm so into them.

00:49:18.740 Well, Jo, first of all, just thank you so much for taking the time. This made my day. I love

00:49:26.660 chatting. It's great to get to know you better. But yeah, anybody, please, you can go to

00:49:32.740 silentbook.club, you can find a chapter near you. You can find our upcoming reading retreats.

00:49:39.180 And if you are a subscriber on our sub stack, which is also Silent Book Club,

00:49:45.160 you can sign up to get first dibs when we release new trips. So.

00:49:51.820 I love it. I love it. I'm going to check my schedule right now and figure out which one

00:49:55.480 I can go to. Okay. I'll give you a heads up with what's coming next because we've got some

00:50:00.920 really exciting stuff coming for 2027. I can't wait. I can't wait. Thank you so much for being

00:50:05.780 here today. Thanks, Jo. Take care.

00:50:30.920 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - April 21, 2026

Let's Read Alone Together a Chat With the Co-Founder of Silent Book Club

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