Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Midlife Career Switching to be a Post-Partum Doula

00:00:00.000 When I'm looking at the next 12 months of my life, what I do not have on the books and what is

00:00:08.840 impossible for me to have on the books is a trip to Sicily. However, the next best thing to having

00:00:14.920 my own adventure in Sicily was reading Joe Piazza's new novel, The Sicilian Inheritance.

00:00:20.440 It is a vacation in a book. If your vacations were

00:00:24.600 sexy murder mysteries that also dive deep into generational trauma, but not in too heavy of a

00:00:34.060 way. It is the perfect book to take on a plane. It is the perfect book to read next to your public

00:00:41.280 pool while taking breaks to yell at your kids. It is the perfect book to get you out of a reading

00:00:48.160 slump and it is available now wherever you get books.

00:00:54.600 today's episode is with one of my longtime friends i love all of our episodes but these

00:01:07.580 are particularly fun because i get to just be me which long-time listeners are probably like 0.96

00:01:13.720 are you ever more you than you are on here you already have no filter you say the most ridiculous 0.99

00:01:18.300 things. Fair point, my friends. Fair point. But a catch-up is always nice. It really is. 1.00

00:01:24.960 Today we are talking to Corinne Steinler. Corinne used to be a gossip columnist with me in the

00:01:30.900 trenches, and we actually competed against each other. She was at the New York Post and I was at

00:01:35.380 the New York Daily News, and it was like the Coke versus Pepsi gossip fight of the early 2000s. 1.00

00:01:41.180 but because Corinne is a wonderful, magical human being, we became friends and I just love the shit 0.99

00:01:48.500 out of this girl. She has since had a massive career shift from journalist to postpartum doula. 0.91

00:01:56.920 And as a woman in my early 40s, so many of my friends are going through their career transitions.

00:02:04.260 I think we're all looking at the future and thinking about, oh, okay, who do I want to be

00:02:09.060 in the world when I'm 60 years old? Or how will the world change? And how will I need to change

00:02:15.760 to meet this moment? So coming up, we're going to do a lot of episodes about women who completely 1.00

00:02:22.680 changed their career paths in the middle of life. I love these stories. I also love talking about

00:02:30.160 career pauses. So if you took a career pause when you had your kids, and then came out the other end

00:02:37.000 of that career pause, wanting to do something else. I want to hear how you did that. And that's

00:02:42.820 exactly what happened in Corinne's life. So we're going to dig into that. And this is just a really

00:02:48.580 fun conversation that also focuses on the need for postpartum health care for women. And I was

00:02:55.960 saying this to Dory the other day when we were recording an episode of Too Much Money where we

00:03:00.960 talk about billionaires. And I was like, if I were a billionaire, I would not go to outer space.

00:03:05.840 I would not try to find the Titanic. Those people are dead already. I would fund postpartum care,

00:03:14.960 like both medical care and just care, like taking care of women after they've had babies. Everyone

00:03:21.160 should get a postpartum doula. Everyone should have someone come to your house and hold your 1.00

00:03:25.400 baby while you shower and make you a snack and check in and make sure that you're okay.

00:03:29.980 And so that's my billionaire project. That's what I would do. I would just, you know,

00:03:33.040 take care of all of the women fuck out our space you heard it here first why you gotta go to mars 1.00

00:03:40.840 elon musk there's people here on this planet just saying 1.00

00:03:44.800 hi old friend hi and i'm saying i'm not saying old as in you are old i'm saying old as in that

00:03:57.820 i've known you for about 20 plus years we knew each other when we weren't old when we weren't

00:04:04.780 old when we were young and hot and running running around town like little rascals

00:04:11.080 in circles really in circles in circles yes so corinne was my competition uh for many years

00:04:21.440 she was the gossip reporter at the new york post and i was the gossip reporter at the new york daily

00:04:26.900 news and back before the internet was such a thing that was it was a big effing deal because

00:04:34.000 we were literally competing against each other every day and yet we fell madly in love and became

00:04:41.140 friends well it was always such a friendly competition it really was it really was it

00:04:47.640 wasn't like me with chris wilson who i would like stare him dead in the eyes and be like i'm gonna 1.00

00:04:51.120 take you down, motherfucker. Well, and then you were my boss. And then I was your boss. And then 1.00

00:04:56.840 I was your boss. I mean, because everything is cyclical. The best advice that I give to young

00:05:01.800 women is always be nice and be kind to the people who are working at the same level as you are,

00:05:09.220 because they will hire you one day. Yeah. I've hired you. You've hired me. Yeah. We've hired 1.00

00:05:14.600 each other we've yes exactly exactly i was like there is there is nothing like being a bitch in 1.00

00:05:21.620 in any industry will not serve you my friends yeah no it's also just kind of like a nasty way to live 0.84

00:05:29.300 it's a bad it's a bad way to live it is it is but not you are you are no longer a reporter you have

00:05:36.480 completely switched careers which it's something i think our audience really likes to hear about

00:05:42.660 And it's something I like to hear about, too, because every day I'm like, I'm not writing another book. I'm very tired. I'm going to go become an electrician. If they will have me, if the electrician guild will have me. It's their steady work. Okay. And I know this because we can never hire an electrician to come fix our 15 light switches that just don't turn on. And we pretend we just pretend that that's fine. There's there's high demand for electricians. So it seems like a good, steady job.

00:06:11.400 Yeah. Come to my house because I'm glad to know I'm not the only one flipping 19 light switches before I can figure out how to turn on a hallway.

00:06:20.560 Nothing works. Nothing works. And the house, like the downstairs was redone and it still doesn't work. Still doesn't work.

00:06:28.460 So tell us, tell us what like your career evolution and switch. What did you do?

00:06:34.580 Sure. Well, you know, we were kind of working together in the lovely suburbs of New Jersey at the Weekly Mags. And I was pregnant. I had my first baby. And I was still, you know, driving to New Jersey, pumping every three hours, pumping in the car on the drive home.

00:07:00.240 that office that office was so gross baby so gross i do i want to tell our audience this

00:07:05.260 the glamorous life of working in glossy celebrity magazines oh yeah um it's gross yeah i want to i 0.85

00:07:12.100 want to tell the audience about how glamorous this was we worked for a company called bauer

00:07:16.000 which was a german company and they loved saving money and they weren't wrong like this was not a

00:07:21.820 dumb move on their part i mean the salaries were good the salaries were great but they were also

00:07:26.660 like because they're coming over from from Germany they looked at real estate on one side of the 0.85

00:07:32.420 river and on the other side of the river and they're like why would we ever have an office 0.71

00:07:35.280 in Manhattan it's stupid expensive we will put our office in like a weird strip office mall

00:07:41.360 in Englewood Cliffs and pay people more money and also save a gajillion dollars and like yes 0.67

00:07:49.880 was it super annoying to cross the bridge every single day sure but the money was good and like

00:07:58.380 those benefits were good and the benefits were good and what new jersey parental leave

00:08:03.440 ah i know i know and so that so it was like a baby factory like everyone would just take that job

00:08:09.460 and make all their babies and make like 18 weeks and the mat and the magazines the magazines also

00:08:15.960 survive like cockroaches because they're just really good at not paying for like a fancy office

00:08:22.340 space in new york yeah yeah yeah but that but it did mean that i was like smoking parliament lights

00:08:28.460 in the like parking garage in new jersey yeah yeah yeah me too before i got pregnant before you got

00:08:36.280 pregnant before you got pregnant um although one of my one of my favorite stories ever about smoking

00:08:42.540 while pregnant was that my my dear friend cheryl connelly who was an incredible editor at the new

00:08:49.200 york daily news she was in her 50s or 60s when i first started working there and that was when

00:08:55.320 everyone still smoked in the office and she told me she was pregnant with her daughter and standing

00:09:00.200 on the subway platform back in the 80s and some guy told her to put out her cigarette and she

00:09:04.700 goes shut your mouth i'm smoking for two yeah i won't name her name but there was one new york

00:09:12.540 publicist who's pretty famous who smoked throughout her whole pregnancy and this was in the 2000s i 0.98

00:09:19.140 think oh i know who you mean because she wanted the baby to be small so she didn't she didn't have

00:09:23.840 difficult labor i was like okay yeah corinne does not recommend smoking to make the baby smaller

00:09:30.300 but it's good that we're talking about this because it transitions us nicely into your new job

00:09:34.600 yeah it does so i'm now i'm a postpartum doula we are going to take a quick break here be right back

00:09:42.540 so i'm now i'm a postpartum doula um and that basically just you know sort of evolved out of

00:09:58.860 trying to make the freelance life work in the media industry and slowly watching you know all

00:10:06.360 my editors get let go from all the places I was writing for and the rates you know plummeting

00:10:14.260 um and then just kind of deciding you know I have my second and just kind of deciding you know what

00:10:19.960 I'm gonna kind of just be with them um so I stopped working uh outside the home for almost two years 1.00

00:10:29.620 um was that what was that what was that transition like because we have I think a lot of women

00:10:35.660 get nervous about the career pause, especially when they've been working for so long. How was 1.00

00:10:41.420 it for you? I mean, it was it it was sort of this

00:10:48.060 kind of like a force that was outside myself, I feel like. I don't feel like we sat down and

00:10:56.120 really like thought about it and weighed the pros and cons. It was kind of just like

00:11:00.780 there was just this one day like our nanny got really sick um we had the kids like didn't have

00:11:07.400 coats there was like no food and I'm like this isn't working like this is really isn't working

00:11:13.560 and um I the nanny was like I don't know when I'm gonna be able to come back so it was like I

00:11:21.040 we weren't even sure we had child care and I was just like I was I'm just done I'm just gonna do

00:11:27.700 this. I'm just going to deal with them. And I, cause I always kind of thought I'll start going

00:11:33.140 back. I'll start going back. But the more I was home with them, the more it just seemed like

00:11:38.100 it was working so well for our family. Like I wasn't a trad wife or anything. It wasn't like

00:11:45.280 making sourdough or like milking a cow, but I was definitely finding like meaning and purpose

00:11:52.760 in being with them which surprised me i guess i always kind of thought i would just

00:11:59.400 hand them over and work right right so you know there was a little bit of soul searching around

00:12:09.000 like what am i now without like an executive editor title and like a place full of adults

00:12:17.780 to go every day um but i had been writing about you know before i kind of took a pause and focusing

00:12:26.100 on um as a freelancer a lot of these conversations around postpartum health postpartum uh care in

00:12:36.160 society you know the lack of support for you know moms whether they are working outside the home or

00:12:44.340 not. Just a general sort of like American dystopian view of postpartum health that I felt

00:12:52.000 was, you know, present. And so I decided after a couple of years of being home with my littles,

00:12:59.060 you know, maybe I'll take this postpartum doula certification course and it will kind of jump

00:13:05.160 start me being able to kind of pitch and write. Maybe I'll become like this postpartum, you know,

00:13:10.400 expert as a as a reporter and I started doing the work in order to certify and I felt so

00:13:20.580 like this is what I'm supposed to be doing my god I love that so I love that feeling yeah

00:13:31.440 yeah so what tell them tell me I want to I want to hear what you have to do to become

00:13:37.600 A doula? I had a doula for my first birth because I lived in San Francisco. And I mean, essentially, you walk down the street as a pregnant woman and people stop you and say, I'll doula you. I was checking out at Buy Right, the stupidly expensive grocery store in our neighborhood. I mean, it was insanely expensive. You get like two blocks of cheese and some crackers and it was $90.

00:13:59.300 uh but the and and the woman at the checkout counter saw that i was pregnant was like oh yeah

00:14:05.980 yeah may i please be your doula and i was like no no i just i don't want this and as we got closer

00:14:12.520 to the birth um i just got scared because it was my first one and did not want nick to be googling

00:14:21.280 while i was in labor uh i also i really hired a doula frankly to support my husband more than me

00:14:28.420 um to be like his assistant and tell him what to do and i'm really appreciative because our doula

00:14:36.700 vincenza was a former uh labor and delivery nurse so she was also a badass in the delivery room like 1.00

00:14:44.460 when kaiser wouldn't let me check in the second time i showed up because they had no beds also 1.00

00:14:49.480 i'm i just love to trash talk san francisco um well and all hospital health care assistants i

00:14:54.480 mean like and all health care story it's just like and then and then this terrible thing happened

00:14:59.800 baby in the hallway and they were mad at me i know i know what do they think happens here

00:15:06.760 in the labor and delivery unit of the hospital like this is where people come when the babies

00:15:13.040 are babies are ready yeah um she made sure they didn't send me home a second time so i was really

00:15:18.820 i did not the second time around i'm like i know i know the drill now and the third time around she 1.00

00:15:23.440 just fell out of the grand canyon of my vagina but uh lucky that doesn't always happen sometimes 0.99

00:15:30.140 the third is like a triathlon again no she just fell out so i really i appreciated having a doula 0.97

00:15:36.580 so tell me everything about becoming a doula so i just want to say i'm actually not a birth

00:15:43.160 doula because there's other types of doulas yes yes yes explain i have a birth doula

00:15:49.560 twice for my both of my kids and she's amazing her name's megan davidson she's in brooklyn

00:15:55.800 um she is incredible she also wrote this amazing book called your birth plan which i think is great

00:16:02.820 for anybody maybe isn't going to have a doula but wants to like understand sort of what what the

00:16:10.720 different paths of births are. And she was super empowering. And she was like, I thought a birth

00:16:19.480 doula was going to be somebody who was like, you have to have a water birth and no epidural. And

00:16:24.440 you know, you're a devil if you don't breastfeed. And I was sort of not in that mindset. I was kind

00:16:29.560 of like, you know, I don't know what kind of birth I'm going to have. I want to be open to options.

00:16:36.160 And she was really empowering around that. And so when I went to kind of go into this work, I was really focused on the postpartum period for a couple of reasons.

00:16:48.180 One, I don't think I would be great in a hospital setting. And I I'm really not a bodily fluid person. It's just not my thing. And there's just a lot of that in birth.

00:16:59.220 yeah it's gross i mean birth is gross and just i'd like to say that i mean people are like it's 0.70

00:17:05.200 beautiful it's beautiful and i'm like you poop i mean people are pooping you poop yeah there's 0.77

00:17:10.220 blood everywhere i'm just like i just don't think that that's my that's not your jam and it's fine 0.63

00:17:15.040 not my spot um but you know i really felt this huge huge lack of care around the postpartum

00:17:23.940 period. Um, I saw so many of my friends, you know, pushing through those first six to 12 weeks,

00:17:32.800 just being like, I just want to get back to work so I can get a break. Um, anxious, depressed,

00:17:41.300 malnourished, like nobody helping them. Um, and going like, this is, this is crazy. You know,

00:17:49.620 every other culture people come and they make all of your food for you and they clean your house 0.87

00:17:56.620 and they hold your baby and you just kind of like stay in bed and feed your baby and don't do 0.94

00:18:01.240 anything but get better um and here it's like chop chop get your body back you know oh I see 0.74

00:18:09.060 them at the gym with like their huge like postpartum you know boobs and I'm just like go 0.95

00:18:15.400 take a nap girl like you do not need to be here right now no unless you want to unless it's I 0.99

00:18:20.600 mean unless you really want to unless you really want to but you don't have to yeah yeah and even 0.99

00:18:27.020 then like you need to rest like your body's been through a lot and and nobody knows like everybody's

00:18:36.780 Like, I didn't know I was going to be bleeding for three to 10 weeks.

00:18:43.040 I didn't know that, you know, I was going to get diastasis or, you know, not fit into

00:18:51.760 my genes after having a baby.

00:18:53.720 It's better now.

00:18:54.920 I think people know more now.

00:18:56.680 But seven, nine years ago when I was having kids, you know, people were kind of shocked

00:19:02.520 at what was happening postpartum.

00:19:05.700 I do.

00:19:06.000 I do think it's better now. I think more of us are talking about it. But yeah, when I had Charlie,

00:19:11.380 it was a massive shock. I was like, there's just my body's gonna fucking leak for 10 weeks, maybe. 0.95

00:19:19.540 Or and my I'm still gonna look pregnant right afterwards, too. I just I mean, you know, I 0.95

00:19:25.220 baby weight. That's all we talk about is baby weight. But I was like, no, I look pregnant.

00:19:29.680 Like I still have a pregnant belly. I don't think I even realized with the first birth that the

00:19:34.460 placenta was going to come out or that peeing was going to be hard or pooping was so hard and just

00:19:40.060 all of it all of it that's not taught we're just not told we're just not taught and it's like we're

00:19:46.880 these you know it's like you can do the same thing as that boys can do you know growing up like you

00:19:51.960 can be equal you can do this you can do that and you're like yeah i can just have a baby and then

00:19:56.900 like jump back to my you know capitalist patriarchal role in this you know wheel and

00:20:04.200 you're like wait a minute no I can't I need a donut to sit down I need to sit on a donut because 0.99

00:20:15.580 my vagina hurts so fucking much and I just think it's really I just was really angry about that I 0.99

00:20:23.360 I was really angry that no one had told me that these things were going to happen. 0.99

00:20:29.080 I was really angry that there was all this pressure to like breastfeed and do these things, but like zero support for it.

00:20:38.180 I think like two months before I had Kai, the Obamacare thing about covering the pumps and like legally making space to pump had just kicked in.

00:20:50.080 So, you know, I'm fighting with HR about, like, this is my legal right.

00:20:56.240 You can't put me in the bathroom, you know.

00:20:58.800 No one puts Corinne in the bathroom. 0.96

00:21:01.780 No.

00:21:02.400 No.

00:21:02.800 Gross.

00:21:03.620 Gross. 0.99

00:21:04.380 Totally gross. 1.00

00:21:04.940 She's a Bauer bathroom. 1.00

00:21:06.460 Oh, God, that bathroom was gross. 1.00

00:21:07.940 That was a gross bathroom.

00:21:09.300 Oh, I'm like, you know, there was still a lot of that going on.

00:21:12.940 And, you know, after Layla, things were a little bit better.

00:21:16.620 You know, the conversations were starting to happen.

00:21:18.680 But I was going to clients. So, you know, I'm certifying. I'm doing this program. I'm learning. You know, I already knew a lot because I'd been through it. I'd also been a babysitter since like forever. I always loved babies. I mean, I just do. I'm like, I'll take your baby. I'll hold your baby. I was always like that.

00:21:36.720 Um, and I'm in these environments because I had to support people for 20 hours in order to certify. And I felt like, I felt like I was really, really helping people. And I felt like I was shocked still at the fact that people felt so much like they had to do everything on their own.

00:22:04.900 like these new moms could not ask for help it was so hard for them and so to be in a space where

00:22:14.800 you're just sort of like I'm gonna help you and you don't have to ask me to do anything I'm gonna

00:22:20.540 anticipate what you need I'm gonna just wash your pump parts I'm gonna make you a snack I'm gonna

00:22:26.880 remind you to take a shower I'm gonna take your baby and tell you to go lay down and just how much 0.64

00:22:33.260 that was, that was so different and counterculture to what was happening, I think was really like

00:22:39.400 attractive to me, you know?

00:22:42.320 And then the further I got into it, you know, I realized like, I, not that I don't interact

00:22:47.940 with men.

00:22:48.600 I mean, the partners and the dads, if they're in the picture are there, but it's really

00:22:54.240 a space where men don't assume that they know more than you.

00:22:59.560 We are going to take a quick break here.

00:23:01.260 Be right back.

00:23:03.260 it's really a space where men don't um assume that they know more than you

00:23:17.860 it is it really is i i say this you know i say this a lot that men often

00:23:25.100 you know if you're married to a good man um which we are they want to help but they're also kind of

00:23:32.020 helpless like especially with the first one they don't know what to do by the time we got to number

00:23:37.220 three nick was a whiz at washing like what you just said washing pump parts like that's all i

00:23:43.840 want i'm like i want someone to wash my pump parts so i don't have to do it and you know he was just

00:23:48.500 like a wizard all right i finished pumping you take the pump parts away from me i will never see

00:23:53.120 them i never want to see them okay he knows the job but in the beginning how does he know because

00:23:58.320 again much like we're not told that our bodies are going to be broken after pregnancy they're

00:24:03.240 not told how to help or or what or what to expect or what to expect what to expect when you're 0.99

00:24:10.540 expecting is fucking bullshit is what it is okay um i just and like no one told me i was gonna be 0.99

00:24:17.220 like crying out of the shower floor no a four because of like a ginormous hormonal surge that 1.00

00:24:26.120 happens because you're like your birth hormones are leaving your body and your milk production

00:24:31.860 hormones are entering your body and that's like a lot no and no one tells you that's in a body

00:24:38.600 it's so much going on in a body you know one of the things that was shocking to me

00:24:43.680 was when I quit breastfeeding again another hormone drop and so I got incredibly anxious

00:24:51.120 and incredibly depressed and I didn't understand why because no one told me and once I finally

00:24:55.980 found out that it was because all of the breastfeeding hormones were going away. And no one

00:25:00.980 had told me this. I wrote a story about it for, I think, Cosmo or Elle, you know, one of the

00:25:06.420 magazines. And I still get three emails a week from women who, when they Googled, find that

00:25:13.820 instead of medical advice from a doctor. Yeah. Because that is the only information they can 0.55

00:25:21.020 find out there is my seven-year-old magazine article about my depression and anxiety like that

00:25:27.160 is not okay well it's it's really because doctors are not trained in breastfeeding no

00:25:37.280 no ob's and pediatricians are are not that's not part of their medical training 0.77

00:25:43.580 it's which is insane which is just insane it's like are you caring for women

00:25:50.380 It's just like, do you want to take care of women? 0.98

00:25:52.860 It's like the baby comes out and everybody's ability to know what to do with you as the birthing person is like zilch. 1.00

00:26:02.940 Totally, totally.

00:26:03.560 Except I will say in the realm of postpartum depression, which, you know, for better or worse, because there's money to be made from a drug industry, they have invested time and effort into.

00:26:17.620 And now I'm very happy that there is, you know, so many new breakthroughs in supporting people who have some of those issues.

00:26:29.460 But it's because there's because there's money to be made because there's money to be made.

00:26:33.760 Exactly. Yeah. Sadly. Yes. Yes.

00:26:35.940 So it's like the baby comes out.

00:26:38.200 The pediatricians now are the ones being trained to screen for postpartum depression because your OB is not going to see you until it's too late.

00:26:45.420 but they're not the pediatricians didn't learn about breastfeeding you have to find a lactation

00:26:51.660 consultant which from i am not here to speak ill of lactation consultants i have met many

00:27:01.960 amazing lactation consultants on the other hand i'll say a good healthy handful of the clients

00:27:10.800 I go in support have had really negative experiences with lactation consultants in

00:27:16.880 the hospital or outside the hospital.

00:27:19.060 And so you you should not trash lactation consultants, but I can because I and I know

00:27:25.940 some great ones I do, but I've met them outside of my own experience.

00:27:29.300 Like I had some really bad experiences where they were first off, they made it seem like 0.99

00:27:34.720 if I wasn't breastfeeding, I was a goddamn monster. 0.99

00:27:37.500 And I will say right now for anyone who needs to hear it. 0.99

00:27:40.800 We gave all of my children formula very early. 0.64

00:27:44.860 I did a mix of formula and boob milk, and my kids are, like, freaking geniuses.

00:27:50.000 So, like, there's nothing wrong with them.

00:27:52.820 Well, and me too.

00:27:54.280 I got my kids' formula and breast milk, and I had a ton of milk, and it wasn't enough.

00:27:59.260 Yeah, see, I did not have a ton of milk.

00:28:01.760 My boobs are weird. 0.90

00:28:05.420 My babies have never been able to latch that well. 0.69

00:28:08.900 Yeah.

00:28:09.200 No, they were tongue-tied.

00:28:10.800 um the i mean the like the lack i i mean i think there's a whole racket going on with tongue tying

00:28:16.320 too on tongue tying but like they've never been able to latch and every single time you know nick 0.77

00:28:22.320 is there and he's like it's because you have big nipples and i'm like it's not because it's not 0.97

00:28:26.860 because i have big nipples nick and i'm like also stop don't say that out loud um but maybe it is 0.99

00:28:32.260 maybe it's because i have big nipples and they can't get them in their mouth but uh they i'm 0.95

00:28:36.820 Sicilian that's what my nails look like and they could but they eventually did it but I just didn't 0.82

00:28:42.060 make enough milk for them I wasn't good at breastfeeding they didn't like it we did it

00:28:46.300 also it is sometimes easier at night than like you know getting up and I mean being good at 1.00

00:28:51.820 breastfeeding I mean here's the thing like I hear this so much from moms is like they want to be

00:28:56.140 they want to be good at at all of these things you know they want to be good at taking care of

00:29:02.620 babies they want to be good at soothing their babies they want to be good at breastfeeding

00:29:06.900 their babies like there's I don't think that's I don't think that exists I I think it's just like

00:29:13.400 it's really hard all of it no matter what you could have one thing that's working well for you

00:29:21.620 but something else won't be you know breastfeeding was relatively straightforward for me with my first

00:29:30.320 but it wasn't easy and he never slept yeah so i had people who are like i can't make milk but

00:29:38.400 but i'm like but is your baby sleeping like three four hour stretches because mine goes 90 minutes

00:29:43.020 around the clock yeah so like something might be going well but another thing is not and that

00:29:49.040 doesn't mean you're not good at it it's just hard it's just hard and you know i like to say there's

00:29:53.900 no such thing as a quote unquote good mother like we're all doing it we're all just we're all trying

00:29:58.260 You're the best mom for your baby.

00:30:00.360 You're the best mom for your baby.

00:30:02.400 Exactly. 0.99

00:30:02.900 I mean, there's some, there's like, you know, Ruby Frankie's a bad mom, for example.

00:30:10.580 But like these outlying examples too are just like, okay, that's just like an unwell person.

00:30:17.000 That's an unwell person.

00:30:18.140 But you know what?

00:30:18.600 You, you are the best mom for your baby.

00:30:20.940 You're the best mom for your baby.

00:30:22.760 And the book doesn't know you.

00:30:24.360 And the book doesn't know your baby.

00:30:25.720 and you can read the books and maybe they'll help maybe they won't but if there's something that

00:30:31.700 you're like you know I've had so many people be like I just want to go back to work so I can feel 1.00

00:30:35.480 like I'm good at something and it's like where where are we in this culture where women always 0.87

00:30:41.220 have to feel like they're good at stuff exactly why do we always have to feel like we're succeeding

00:30:49.080 in order to feel fulfilled i mean i look at men and they're just like

00:30:55.240 mediocre and they're like they feel great about themselves they feel so good about themselves

00:31:04.520 i mean not all of them or there's some exceptional men i'm not saying you know all men are mediocre

00:31:10.540 but just like even the ones that are kind of like eh you're okay their confidence they're

00:31:18.680 they're they're how they feel inside how they feel inside is is like really through the roof

00:31:25.180 except for my husband who weirdly is the only like tall handsome white man i know with imposter

00:31:30.960 syndrome uh it's just shocking he's just great though i know i know and he's just like he's like

00:31:38.120 i don't know i don't think i'm good enough for this yeah well maybe some of them are faking it

00:31:43.380 till they make it or maybe it's a cover-up but it's totally a cover-up but still yes no like

00:31:47.760 The majority, I mean, like men don't put this level of pressure on themselves to be good at everything or to be successful in all areas of life or to feel like they're achieving all the time.

00:32:01.420 And I just look around at women and it's like, you know, maybe there is no being good at this part of life.

00:32:07.900 Maybe it's just taking care of yourself and your baby the best you can until it's a little bit easier. 0.90

00:32:15.220 and then maybe you can feel like okay i'm really good at crafts or i'm really good at putting the

00:32:22.340 cute things in the lunch or i'm really good at you know bath time like maybe later on you can

00:32:29.080 pick a thing and be like i'm really good at that but to be really good at something like

00:32:34.020 breastfeeding is like what does it even mean what does it even what does it even mean on the baby

00:32:38.820 i'm i'm a champion breastfeeder yeah right i'm really good at it really i can i could squirt

00:32:49.980 milk in your eye from across the room yeah so but but you know the baby has to also be really 0.97

00:32:57.240 good at it then i know exactly my babies were fucking failures at it okay maybe your babies 0.99

00:33:03.840 are just not going to breastfeeding your baby sucks at breastfeeding okay maybe they don't know 0.99

00:33:11.320 it's just I think there's just so much going on there and I really feel like when I'm in people's 0.86

00:33:15.960 homes and I'm with them in these really vulnerable moments I have an opportunity to kind of push back

00:33:22.620 against the mainstream conversation that's coming at them from all other sides and to me that feels

00:33:28.520 like doing feminist work more than you know maybe just writing articles into the abyss

00:33:36.840 i mean we really write articles into the abyss now i don't know how i mean no one you don't as

00:33:42.700 people find your articles but mine are kind of like i don't know lost in space i don't know i

00:33:48.140 will i will say like i wrote a really great story for cosmo uh the big sicilian energy one about

00:33:54.680 like being bold and confident in the world and it just came out yesterday and I love it but I don't

00:33:59.820 know how readers find it is the thing I'm like I don't I love Cosmo and I love the work they do

00:34:06.300 but you know are people going directly to the home page or like is it just through social media

00:34:11.580 discovery is it just through my social media discovery yeah it it really like so many things

00:34:16.860 feel like shouting into the void you're a really you're a really really good journalist by the way

00:34:21.300 Okay. So just to sum up, I want you to tell me, what are the three things that you try to do for your clients? So, you know, that someone who doesn't have a postpartum doula can know to ask someone else for this when in the postpartum period.

00:34:37.980 yeah i mean i would say the three things i really try to focus on when i'm with a client

00:34:45.840 and you know especially in the daytime visits where you might be there for three four or five

00:34:51.340 hours let's try to make sure you eat something take a shower and maybe get a little bit of

00:35:00.040 resting time in um so you know that's kind of what i'll i'll focus on when i get there i'll say

00:35:06.900 like, did you eat? Did you shower? Do you want to take a nap? Depending on like when the baby

00:35:12.800 has to be fed, we'll try to do, we'll try to get all three of those things in. And when that

00:35:16.940 happens, I feel like, you know, that's a really successful visit. So if you're someone who

00:35:21.860 doesn't have a postpartum doula, you can kind of ask people, you know, can you just take the

00:35:27.820 baby so I can shower? Can you make me something to eat? You know, if you have two adults in the

00:35:34.400 room one person you know the baby while the other is making you food and that's like a really great

00:35:38.680 way to take a shower eat something and then feed your baby then take a nap totally you know it's

00:35:44.700 so funny all of these three things that you're saying could someone come over and be my book

00:35:49.020 launch doula because i haven't showered in or rested and i just i kind of need someone to be

00:35:55.520 here be like it's time to shower you're you smell well but getting a book out into the world is kind

00:36:02.460 of like having a baby right i mean totally the same exact thing birth your books birthing the

00:36:10.560 book guys order the sicilian inheritance it'll be here tomorrow if you order it right now

00:36:15.880 and you're gonna love it when you get it and then you're gonna then you get to discuss it with with

00:36:20.340 all of the people who have already ordered it you're gonna be a part of the coven it's very

00:36:23.300 exciting i can't wait i'm checking that doorstep every day no well it was funny because i was at

00:36:29.480 barnes and noble last night and the boxes had come in with the sicilian inheritance and i'm

00:36:33.320 like just put them out and they're like we can't like we're not allowed i'm like put them in the

00:36:36.840 window now guys and then i signed them you're just standing out front of the barnes and noble with

00:36:42.160 your box of books and they're like give it back that's all sorry lynn sorry lynn it's a great

00:36:49.880 book i love you i miss you i'll come see you in chicago and you can you can doula me you can be

00:36:56.100 like i'll post i'll post about your book while you take a shower yeah i'll order you some seamless

00:37:02.960 some seamless yeah yeah exactly exactly that is that you know that would be a really great service

00:37:08.380 from your agents um to be honest who are like okay i know you're really busy right now i just

00:37:13.260 ordered you some sushi yeah are you are you listening are you listening to what i need this

00:37:21.900 week. Bookful gents slash doulas. Slash doulas. Slash doulas. Exactly. Exactly. All right. I 1.00

00:37:30.220 love you. I will talk to you soon. This has been magical and wonderful. And that is all we have

00:37:39.820 for today. We covered a lot of ground, my friends. A lot of ground. Did we solve the world's problems?

00:37:47.340 probably not probably not but whatever whatever I love Corinne's path to finding something that

00:37:55.080 she is so clearly passionate about like I can hear the passion and joy in her voice and that

00:38:00.040 is just so nice to hear from a friend it's so nice to feel that they are in the right place at

00:38:06.440 the right time it is now I uh we are a week out from the Sicilian inheritance and I gotta go be 0.99

00:38:13.560 a fucking monster. Sell this book. Still selling this book. Order early and often. Order it for 0.99

00:38:19.700 your friends. Order it for a stranger on the street. You can walk up to a stranger and say,

00:38:23.600 hey, do you want to get out of a reading slump? Let me order you this book, my friend.

00:38:28.180 It's not weird. That's not weird at all. Do that and then go do something nice for yourself.

00:38:33.620 You deserve it.

00:38:43.560 Thank you.

00:39:13.560 You

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - March 28, 2024

Midlife Career Switching to be a Post-Partum Doula

Episode Stats

Transcript