Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： Life Beyond Stay-at-home Motherhood

00:00:00.000 Hello, all. Joe here, and you're listening to Under the Influence. Happy Sunday. I hope

00:00:17.640 you're doing something nice for yourself. Hope you're hiding from your kids. Today

00:00:22.300 on Sunday Nice Things, I'm bringing you a podcast called Mom to More. Mom to More was

00:00:29.220 created by Sharon Macy, a former stay-at-home mom and mother of three who wanted to hear more

00:00:35.840 stories about women like her who stayed home with their kids and then had to navigate the

00:00:40.040 journey of rediscovery as her children grew up. Sharon's episodes have practical tools,

00:00:46.980 actionable tips, and a supportive community to help explore life beyond motherhood.

00:00:52.620 today's episode is with a woman who i adore i adore who i count as a friend and a colleague

00:01:02.100 lee woodruff lee is a mama for a best-selling author a multi-platform journalist executive

00:01:09.080 media trainer philanthropist and the wife of abc's news anchor bob woodruff i've had lee and bob on

00:01:14.680 my other podcast committed and if you haven't heard their story you you should listen to it

00:01:19.380 but fair warning, you're going to cry your freaking eyes out. In this episode, Sharon and

00:01:24.960 Lee are going to discuss Lee's decision to stay home with their kids, her thoughts on keeping

00:01:28.820 your passions alive during motherhood, and the power of strong female friendships. I love Lee,

00:01:35.580 and I know you're going to, too. Welcome to the podcast where motherhood meets reinvention.

00:01:45.020 I'm your host, Sharon Macy, and this is Mom2More.

00:01:48.820 I'll be speaking with remarkable moms who have embraced the art of transformation, crafting

00:01:54.040 their more by leveraging the skills they hone as stay-at-home moms.

00:01:58.480 They'll share their experiences, struggles, and successes as they return to a former career,

00:02:03.540 pursued a passion or hobby, or charted an entirely new path, giving you the clarity,

00:02:09.240 motivation, and inspiration to help you answer the question, what do you want to do?

00:02:14.460 when your kids grow up. Hello, Pod Moms. Welcome back. Well, my guest today is the journalist,

00:02:24.700 author, renowned public speaker, and multifaceted mom, Lee Woodruff. Lee has spent her career in 0.56

00:02:31.100 the world of communications and marketing, a contributing reporter for CBS This Morning.

00:02:36.200 She has also reported for Good Morning America and hosted radio programs. Woodruff garnered

00:02:41.480 critical acclaim for her best-selling book, In an Instant, the frank, compelling, and humorous

00:02:47.500 chronicle of her family's journey to recovery following her journalist husband Bob's roadside

00:02:53.120 bomb injury in Iraq. Her best-selling book, Perfectly Imperfect, was followed by her first

00:02:58.840 novel, Those We Love Most. She is the author of three best-selling books. As co-founder of the

00:03:04.900 Bob Woodrow Foundation, she has helped to raise more than $65 million to help military veterans

00:03:10.760 successfully reintegrate into their communities and receive critical long-term care.

00:03:16.540 Leigh has received numerous honors for this work on behalf of our nation's veterans. Woodruff has

00:03:21.880 penned numerous magazine articles on a variety of business and feature subjects, written more

00:03:26.960 blogs than I can count, and she runs a successful media speaker training business in New York.

00:03:33.620 Welcome, Leigh. I am so thrilled that you are here today to join me.

00:03:38.040 and well thank you gosh that was a lot I must have ended up giving you the long version so

00:03:45.240 for that well clearly clearly you have excelled on so many fronts and we have so much to talk

00:03:52.180 about today so I would love to just dive in let's go let's go let's go Lee okay so the first question

00:04:01.720 that I always ask my moms is sort of the essential mom question and that is how many kids do you have

00:04:07.280 and where did you raise them? I have four kids, and they're all out of the nest as of two years

00:04:14.540 ago, last two graduated college. And we lived all around the globe for a while. So they're team A,

00:04:22.600 who are 31, 32, actually, and almost 30. You name a city, and we probably lived there as my husband

00:04:29.820 was in his TV career moving up. The other two, pretty much just London and Westchester County,

00:04:35.880 New York. We came back to New York when Bob took the weekend anchor position from London and they

00:04:41.620 pretty much, that's most of their experience. So two different teams with different parenting

00:04:46.820 experiences, let's say. But all under the umbrella of Team Woodruff. That is right. Absolutely Team

00:04:52.580 Woodruff. Yeah. So talk to me about why it was important to you to be home with your kids and

00:04:59.340 how did you manage your career so you could keep writing? Because obviously that is like who you

00:05:04.620 are and yet still be a stay-at-home mom? How did that work? That sort of evolved, but I did feel

00:05:12.080 really strongly that if you want to be involved in your kids' lives and be there for some of the

00:05:20.360 small and big moments, no one can be there for everything, that one person, it doesn't matter

00:05:25.340 which one, probably needs to take a step or two steps back in their career and let the other

00:05:31.480 person be the the one who can go all out that sounds really 1950s and really sort of patronizing

00:05:39.800 but it would have been fine if that person was me and I only say that because if two people are

00:05:44.600 traveling the globe all the time then someone else's home probably there for the school play

00:05:49.360 and all those little moments and that's fine never going to be prescriptive about about someone's

00:05:53.100 decision but for us I really knew that it was important for one of us to sort of be there and

00:05:58.780 let me be really honest, I was certainly not there every day. But in the early days, I was an early

00:06:04.420 gig economy worker. So when Bob was a lawyer, and when he decided to get out of the law and become

00:06:10.740 a journalist for $11,000 a year, it was really clear that back in the day as well. So back in

00:06:16.720 the day. Yeah, well, that was still we still qualified for food stamps back then on that

00:06:20.600 salary. So it was really clear that I was going to keep working. And I was able to just find

00:06:24.340 little of this, little of that. We would move every two years to a new TV market. And I was

00:06:28.940 able to pretty much figure out how to do it from home with childcare. I mean, none of this is easy.

00:06:33.660 Yeah. It's not easy. And we've been through the same thing, you know, deciding who was going to

00:06:38.640 take the step back and really do the hard work of raising kids. And obviously it's a team effort,

00:06:43.760 but definitely feel strongly about being. And I hope I didn't leave the impression that my

00:06:48.240 husband did nothing when he was home. He was home. He was. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Right. He was a

00:06:53.120 really is a really fantastic dad. And that was an important part of the equation. Cause

00:06:57.020 I think the thing that it's so easy to feel in marriages, especially when one is doing sort of

00:07:02.360 all of something is resentment. So how do you avoid that resentment? Yeah. Yeah. And that is,

00:07:08.360 that's a whole other subject. Yeah. Yeah. But, and there's a lot of moms that feel that, but I think

00:07:14.240 it's, it's teamwork, right? It's gotta be teamwork and you're there for some things. He's there for

00:07:19.980 other things, and we're blessed to have that team. So when we had first spoken, you mentioned that

00:07:26.360 you had spent a lot of time as a single mom when Bob was a foreign correspondent, and you said

00:07:32.020 the hardest part of the day was child rearing. And so how did that impact your role as a mom,

00:07:39.900 you know, being a single mom when he was traveling for work? Let's also talk about the skills and

00:07:46.340 the superpowers that you honed while you were raising your kids? Wow. I love that question

00:07:52.520 because I don't know that I had that many superpowers. I think I was such a average person

00:07:59.000 in that the days were, the weeks were short, but the days were long. I definitely am a doer. So I

00:08:06.460 had a lot of stuff going at all times. And when he would come home, I would collapse. I would

00:08:11.200 literally get physically sick because, right. You can keep the ball going for so long, but

00:08:16.640 especially when he would go to a war zone and he was gone for a month or something, it was like

00:08:20.460 clockwork. He would come home and I would just, I could collapse. Our mind over bodies can do

00:08:26.020 incredible things to sort of keep us going on resilience. I don't know that I had any secrets

00:08:31.220 beyond anybody else out there listening to the podcast. I think I tried to not let the little

00:08:36.820 things bother me, like not react too much if I was exhausted or afraid. If I did, I made a point

00:08:43.680 of apologizing when I would do something. And I have to think about how I want to phrase this

00:08:48.940 here. I, I wouldn't apologize for having disciplined them, let's say, but if I said

00:08:54.080 something harshly, I would show them that you could still hold the line, but you could apologize

00:08:59.140 for the way in which you said something or your tone. And I always, I felt like that was really

00:09:03.820 important. Yeah. And it's a way of setting boundaries, true. Setting boundaries with love.

00:09:09.180 With love. I like the way you just said that for sure. And then my biggest, my banner, if I had a

00:09:15.100 bumper sticker that would describe my mothering in those moments when it was just me and four kids

00:09:20.080 would be, if you're having a bad day, go to bed and it'll all look better in the morning because

00:09:24.940 sleep is everything. And that's just, that was so true in so many instances. Yeah. Right. And that's

00:09:29.640 something that so many of us as moms over the years, you deny yourself the sleep. I think as

00:09:36.760 we get older, you realize what was I thinking? Cause you're just so not yourself. You're not

00:09:42.160 a hundred percent and you have to be a hundred percent or you have to be as much as you can be

00:09:45.840 at that moment in time. And then that's perfect. Right. In terms of what you're doing. Well,

00:09:50.640 I also think Lee, that you probably have many more superpowers that you are maybe willing to

00:09:56.060 realize because I think every mom has within her that gift of so many things that we know how to

00:10:02.460 do. And, and just from being with the kids, you, you hone them and, and you do it so well. And even

00:10:07.620 just like ACE negotiator and conflict resolution, think about all the conflict you had to resolve

00:10:13.840 all by yourself, you know, with, with the four kids. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny if, if women

00:10:19.440 were allowed to put those skills on as a resume, we'd have a lot of wonderful candidates for 1.00

00:10:24.640 corporate world and politics that could perhaps help us in this crazy environment that we're

00:10:30.020 living in. Okay. So why can't they be on the resume? They should be on the resume. Don't you

00:10:35.260 think? I think the world is still mostly run by 50 something year old white men. So I don't know 0.99

00:10:40.840 that those count. So we got to, we got to have more women in positions where we can legitimize 1.00

00:10:45.680 things and look at everything from a 360 perspective question. I agree with you a hundred 1.00

00:10:51.500 percent that all those skills are super relevant and they're very marketable okay so i would love

00:10:58.360 lee for you to tell my listeners about the day that your life changed well i was actually in

00:11:04.200 disney world of all places it was 2006 and bob had just been named the co-anchor of world news

00:11:10.000 so peter jennings had passed away rather quickly from lung cancer and they were they had set up

00:11:17.260 the succession which is going to be bob and elizabeth vargas who's a who's a reporter as well

00:11:22.820 and it was seven weeks after he had taken the chair that he went to iraq and he'd been to iraq

00:11:30.120 a million times so this was just to be covering bush's state of the union event which is not you

00:11:35.880 know not as anxiety provoking as embedding with the troops which he had done you know a number of

00:11:41.080 times and he was hit by a roadside bomb while recovering he was in it i mean while reporting

00:11:45.200 rather. He was in a tank, happens to our troops every day, less so today, hopefully, but it was

00:11:52.220 completely unexpected for me. I had, in the three months that he was embedded with the Marines in

00:11:58.300 the invasion, that's when I had expected something like this to happen. So I was out of the blue,

00:12:03.060 got a phone call that I thought was my wake-up call at Disney World, and you just, in that moment,

00:12:09.160 with four kids asleep in the other room need. I just had to sort of push down any of my

00:12:15.880 normal fears and just get stuff done. And you find out who you are in those moments, don't you?

00:12:22.680 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. How did you, how did you manage to really hold it all together?

00:12:28.940 You've got, I mean, to be in Disney world of all right, supposedly happy places and then to get

00:12:34.260 the worst news of your life. Yeah, I know. It's like the happiest place on earth. Maybe not for

00:12:39.300 our family. Maybe not right now. Yeah. Listen, we had a team of people around us. I mean, he was

00:12:44.540 the anchor of world news. So I'm not going to pretend that, you know, I did this by myself. We

00:12:48.520 had a team come in and extract us. The journalists were already trying to get the news. We got out

00:12:53.980 of there on the Disney plane. My life is, was incredibly privileged. And for anybody else,

00:12:59.360 you know, who was going through this in the military, that was not the same experience.

00:13:03.100 so I you know I'm not going to sugarcoat that in any way I often get asked that question how do you

00:13:09.940 do it and I think as a mother everybody out there would understand what choice do you have right

00:13:14.800 well you do exactly you could take the couch with a bottle of Jack Daniels and some Valium and sit

00:13:19.760 there but I there's no mother I know that doesn't just have to figure out how to rise to an occasion

00:13:24.600 when the chips are down or when a right piece of bad news comes in right yeah and survivor skills 0.92

00:13:29.740 right? Survivor skills 101. There's not a woman out there, a mom out there who has not had to

00:13:35.900 deal with something life-changing or whether it's a spouse or a child or a parent. So going off of 0.97

00:13:45.060 that, the inner strength that you had to muster to be there for the kids and to go head on into

00:13:51.880 survival mode, was there inner strength that surprised you? I've never thought about that

00:13:57.160 question. I guess I assumed I would be able to handle it, but I think my primary thought at the

00:14:03.520 time was, I don't want to screw this up for them because this is such a pivotal moment, the

00:14:08.100 potential to lose their father because his life was really hanging in the balance. And I don't

00:14:13.880 want this to shape their worldview. So how can I move forward with confidence, positivity, even if

00:14:20.180 I didn't feel it? Otherwise their worldview is going to be one in which the world is a bad place

00:14:26.240 and scary things happen. And this changed my life forever. So I was acutely aware that the way in

00:14:31.980 which I was going to model how we got out of there, how we moved forward, how we talked about

00:14:36.440 it was critical. And it's always important to remember as well, and my kids were 14, 12,

00:14:41.780 five and five, that at those ages, kids are really about themselves. And I don't mean that

00:14:48.000 news about their dad isn't going to rock them or make them worried or sad. But I quickly realized

00:14:55.300 If I could keep them in their own little worlds with their friends, keep their lives going

00:14:59.780 on, play dates, soccer, whatever was happening, that was a far better situation than to extract

00:15:05.880 them and move them down to Washington, D.C., where he was in a military hospital, which

00:15:09.700 was my first instinct, that sometimes it's not about you as the parent.

00:15:14.200 Sometimes it's about what do they need to be healthy here?

00:15:17.860 Right.

00:15:18.080 I'm sure that was an extraordinarily tough decision because you had the kids and their

00:15:22.660 lives. But yet as a wife, you wanted to be there with your husband. And obviously, I'm sure there

00:15:27.000 was a lot of back and forth and back and forth and family and friends and, you know, were your

00:15:33.320 lifelines. All of that. Yeah, it was a big stew. I actually think it was a blessing. They weren't

00:15:38.740 with me. I don't know that I would have had the bandwidth to deal with my emotions. And Bob was

00:15:44.600 in a coma for 36 days. So going to a hospital for 36 days and wondering if he's going to wake up and

00:15:50.640 when he does what's left is he going to go to acute care nursing home as they were telling me

00:15:54.760 I don't think I could have managed that and four kids so as you say that's where what I call the

00:15:59.880 four f's family and friends faith and funny all came in and I had an army of wonderful girlfriends

00:16:07.180 you really find out who your friends are when the tough thing happens what I found was interesting

00:16:11.660 is the people that stepped into the void weren't the ones that I necessarily would have expected

00:16:16.680 to do so. And that's not any kind of slam on anyone. It's just people have different

00:16:20.940 places they're at in their lives, different demands. And some people really don't want

00:16:25.020 to put themselves in a situation where it's holding a mirror

00:16:28.920 up to what could also happen to them. So I realized this wasn't personal.

00:16:33.300 Just some people just don't want to. Some people can't.

00:16:36.980 Yeah. Some people can't or they won't. Absolutely. And I

00:16:40.540 completely honored that. I really did. It didn't change my impression

00:16:44.240 of people. Yeah. So I had read somewhere where you talked about the power of female friendships.

00:16:51.220 I realized as a mom and as a woman and the older I get how extraordinarily important

00:16:56.140 those relationships are in my life. So talk about that and how that, that helped you.

00:17:00.880 Yeah. I think it's a girl code for anyone out there. We speak differently to one another. We

00:17:06.220 can be frank with one another. I think as marriage goes on, you know, in a good marriage,

00:17:12.020 and I count mine in that category, things get same, same. And, and to be able to voice that

00:17:18.640 in a way that feels safe at times, it doesn't have anything to do with love, but it's just a

00:17:24.960 place to put stuff that's safe with girlfriends because we all understand it. There will always

00:17:32.340 be a Mars Venus, I think, which is probably what makes marriage interesting and, and sparky at

00:17:38.400 times, but there's something so different about the comfort of an old girlfriend.

00:17:43.820 A hundred percent. Just like you, I have those, those girlfriends. And we always joke when we

00:17:47.740 have our once a year girl getaways, you know, what happens in fill in the blank town stays

00:17:53.540 in fill in the blank town. The discussions sort of the, really just the opening of your heart,

00:17:59.040 your friends helping you with issues in your life and vice versa. It's, it's, it's so valuable

00:18:04.560 and so important. And I think that's a message for moms is that you have to have those female

00:18:09.520 friendships and you have to have those women who have your back. And I think that helps to make

00:18:14.140 the whole, you know, being home with your kids and being a stay-at-home mom and trying to reinvent

00:18:20.160 yourself at some point in your life when the kids get older, that, that having those friendships is

00:18:24.900 just, you know, like your rock, you know, behind, behind everything else. Yeah.

00:18:34.560 so with the wisdom that you have today what would you maybe have told your mom self 30 years ago

00:18:44.600 i would have done that grandma in the grocery store thing where someone says it all goes so fast

00:18:51.680 and that you know you can be in your pushing your grocery cart with your crying infant and think

00:18:58.120 yeah lady you know easy for you to say but i i feel like i had a modicum of that to be able to

00:19:03.840 say this is going to be over uh before you know it but boy are there days that it sure doesn't

00:19:08.520 feel like it and i think for i guess what i would have said is lee you're going to be able to do all

00:19:14.080 the things you want just not all at once and life is going to come in chapters and there's going to

00:19:19.240 be a day where you look around in the house is going to feel super empty so it's impossible to

00:19:24.280 embrace it all you can't stick it in the freezer and revisit it in you know when you're an empty

00:19:28.640 nester wouldn't we can't wouldn't that be awesome like today I want to pull up a day when my kids

00:19:34.100 were two I'm just going to defrost this right now and yeah defrost age two I don't know why I'd ever

00:19:39.020 defrost age two I think a baby would be kind of fun right now but as a grandma I I feel like I

00:19:44.560 knew all that it's a really thought-provoking question maybe I didn't maybe I'm just pretending

00:19:49.640 that I did know it at the time it doesn't mean you're any less frustrated or exhausted or you

00:19:54.980 know, any of the things that we feel, but it's funny how looking back, those edges really do

00:20:00.320 get shaved off. Yes, absolutely. Something else you said, which really struck me, we don't give

00:20:07.360 our kids enough of the circle of life stuff. And I would love for you to explain that because I

00:20:14.260 think it's brilliant. And given what your family has been through, how would you explain that to

00:20:19.740 other moms we are so worried today about our children's happiness and you know oh my gosh we

00:20:28.140 have to do everything to just make sure everything works out for them and so everybody has to make

00:20:33.160 the soccer team and everybody needs to get a ribbon and johnny needs to excel in this so if

00:20:38.280 he's not so good at piano then we'll we'll try x or y and z and all those are coming from the right

00:20:44.300 place but the truth is that no one does any service to anybody because when you get out in

00:20:49.560 the real world, it doesn't work like that. There is still the best man wins and there's, it's still

00:20:55.000 a competition in whatever the, you're not going to make the team and yeah. Yeah. So I feel like

00:21:00.300 we're doing a real disservice today. And it's interesting. I, one of the, one of my clients

00:21:04.320 is an author named Jennifer Goodman, and she's written a book called beyond happiness. And her

00:21:09.140 contention is that we're all searching for the wrong thing. We're all teaching our children that

00:21:14.820 we deserve to be happy. Think about it. It's written into the declaration of independence.

00:21:19.560 life liberty and the pursuit of happiness those are our rights as americans and her contention

00:21:25.000 is that happiness is an emotion it's a sunset it's a you know your husband walks through the door

00:21:30.580 satisfaction is what we should be looking for if we're having a satisfying day i got some things

00:21:37.940 done i connected with a girlfriend like whatever that is and by taking that bar down a little bit

00:21:42.920 we've got the bar so high right now for our kids that it's not any wonder to me that everybody's

00:21:48.580 in therapy and that, you know, as everybody's on SSRIs, we're so anxious and grownups as well.

00:21:54.160 So for me, I think being realistic about things like loss, grandma's going to die at some point,

00:22:00.700 I'm going to die at some point. So let me answer that question. Honestly, when your child asks you,

00:22:05.900 mommy, are you ever going to die? Yeah, that's absolutely part of life. And I think we've all

00:22:11.920 been doing this protective mode about the hard things. And so we're not giving anybody armor

00:22:17.640 to build up that resilience because things happen.

00:22:21.480 That's a really important result, brilliant point.

00:22:25.380 And now that you say that, you're right.

00:22:27.540 There's too much of the, and I never liked that,

00:22:29.640 you know, when the kids were younger

00:22:30.560 with everyone got a ribbon or whatever.

00:22:33.440 But yes, I think within finding satisfaction in your life

00:22:37.960 will come the happiness because you are satisfied.

00:22:41.740 That's right.

00:22:42.880 So I really like that.

00:22:44.880 it reframes be satisfied with the human that you are and the people that you're raising and and

00:22:52.520 within that that satisfaction comes comes your happiness absolutely yeah well said thank you for

00:22:59.180 that and uh and also life moves fast and comes in chapters which chapter are you in right now

00:23:04.280 i am in the kids are out of the house chapter hopefully off the door yeah yeah off the are we

00:23:14.020 a role. So that'll be interesting. I want to see what that looks like. And then that'll define how

00:23:18.460 much longer I work for a paycheck. Uh, but I love what I do. So I'm having fun as long as I'm still

00:23:23.840 having fun. I want to keep working and I do want to be writing more. I've ignored my personal

00:23:29.940 writing for years now, which is fine, but I'm feeling the itch to do that more. So, and I think

00:23:36.260 slowing down, I have run breakneck speed through life, trying to grab everything I can and I've

00:23:41.240 loved it, but I feel my energy shifting in my sixth decade. Yeah. I'm not sad about it. It's

00:23:48.240 just different. It's just different. And I'm going to try to embrace that. And I think, yeah,

00:23:52.780 absolutely. I think you have to honor where you are at a certain place in your life or a certain

00:23:58.420 point in time and, and use that energy to move forward in whichever way resonates with you.

00:24:05.820 right? Absolutely. Right. So you and Bob started the Bob Woodruff Foundation after his accident,

00:24:12.440 and you have done extraordinarily just beautiful good for the world and for veterans. And why was

00:24:20.840 that important for the two of you to do that? We got so much attention for our story. It was

00:24:28.080 uncomfortable. And here were all these young men and women coming through the Bethesda Military

00:24:33.120 Naval Hospital, who had the same injuries. And we were all going to go off back to our hometowns

00:24:39.360 after they left the acute care facility. But I knew that our outcomes were going to be different

00:24:43.420 because Bob had ABC News supporting us and paying for medical bills because he was injured at work

00:24:50.200 and all of that stuff. And it just felt like at that time, back in 2006, we know now traumatic

00:24:57.940 injury brain injuries head injuries amputations invisible wounds of war we know about that now

00:25:03.520 because it's been you know 16 17 years but at the time that was not getting attention so it felt

00:25:09.060 like you take something as my buddy robin robert says you you make your mess your message and it

00:25:16.200 just it you're never going to erase the bad thing but you can help give it a purpose when you do

00:25:22.100 something like that and oftentimes incredible things have happened out of tragedy many many

00:25:28.820 times yeah and so just taking that energy that you had and paying it forward so to speak is

00:25:34.620 incredible so I would I would invite listeners to check out the Bob Woodruff Foundation the link will

00:25:40.440 be in the show notes so let's talk about your writing because clearly you are an extraordinary

00:25:46.160 writer you have something on your website called bookmarks what was your inspiration for that

00:25:52.340 Well, I think I published my last book 10 years ago, possibly more.

00:25:57.300 And life pivoted.

00:26:00.540 I started this business that I'm doing, focusing on media training, and it really took off.

00:26:05.560 There was no more time to write.

00:26:06.800 And I knew that if I were going to write another book, I needed to stay in the game.

00:26:13.180 So not only do I love to read books and read them all the time, and I read pretty fast.

00:26:17.200 And yes, I read everything I review.

00:26:18.800 it just felt like a natural way for me to stay in the book world with all these authors whom I love

00:26:23.980 and know and would do events with and stay current on books and until I you know I'm ready to

00:26:30.420 publish something else so I love it I get sent galleys and books before they come out and I just

00:26:35.080 review the ones I think that my gang is going to love and it's more it's it's folks like who are on

00:26:40.540 this call book you know mostly women fiction some thrillers memoir but all like book club sort of

00:26:46.500 books that people can discuss. So it's a side hustle. I don't make any money. It's not, you

00:26:52.020 know, I won't do the ad thing. That just seems too complicated. It's just a labor of love.

00:26:56.340 If it comes from the heart, I think that's wonderful. And I, and having read through all,

00:27:00.040 you know, read through a lot of your, your bookmarks, I've already added Strange Sally

00:27:04.480 Diamond, Her Too, and Listen World about Elsie Robinson to my reading list. So I really look

00:27:10.800 forward to jumping into that do you have a favorite book of all time I do it's called

00:27:16.540 crossing to safety by Wallace Stegner okay and it's a simple book as somebody once wrote there's

00:27:23.240 no sex drugs or rock and roll but it's a book about two marriages and it's it's older now but

00:27:29.100 someone gave it to Bob and I when we were married and we we lived in Beijing China that first year

00:27:35.840 and I read it and cried and then 20 years later I read it and it still held up but I was

00:27:40.600 had a different perspective as a married person. It's just a very amazing book. He's a writer from

00:27:45.520 the West. I think he taught at Stanford for many years. It may not be everybody else's cup of tea,

00:27:50.860 but it's just a lovely story. Oh, I look forward to adding that to my reading list. Thank you for

00:27:55.160 that. What does Lee Woodruff write about? You write about marriage and travel and life and big

00:28:00.580 stuff and small little things. And what I love about your writing is that it is witty and gritty

00:28:06.520 and real and funny. Do you think your writing voice changed before and after Bob's accident?

00:28:15.840 Or are you just you and that has sort of persevered through it all?

00:28:20.120 I probably don't know that it changed that much. That's a lovely question. I'm not sure I'd be the

00:28:25.320 best person to actually judge that. But certainly Bob's injury was probably the most profound

00:28:31.400 thing in my life. But there were other little cherry bombs in life, like everybody out there.

00:28:35.880 who doesn't have cherry bombs in life. And I actually love that. I love that the phrasing of

00:28:41.660 that. I will remember that. Yeah. And so I got real about that. You know, we lost a baby that

00:28:47.660 was later term and had heart issues. One of the twins was born and I was told that she was

00:28:54.680 profoundly deaf and would never probably be able to attend mainstream school. So I was always able

00:28:58.960 to write through those experiences and talk about them with honesty and find community with other

00:29:04.820 people who were going, these are just, again, talking about the circularity of life. This is

00:29:09.500 one of them. Absolutely. And I think, you know, what you've just said about finding community

00:29:14.040 for moms who, you know, might be going through a moment right now that is extraordinarily

00:29:20.280 difficult for them. I think finding community is so important because you need someone to talk with

00:29:26.600 and to cry with and to commiserate with and to find support from as we're dealing with the

00:29:32.920 craziness that is life and and that is raising kids I want to add to that too because I think 1.00

00:29:38.360 that there's a tendency for women to minimize their stuff so if I had a dollar for every time 0.64

00:29:43.680 someone said to me well you know I lost my husband but it's nothing like what you went through yes it

00:29:48.340 is it's all the same thing there's no first second or third prize for who has it worse and I think

00:29:53.120 women especially in this tough time when you're home and you've got Maslow's hierarchy of needs

00:29:59.220 met right the young mother who's got a roof over her head enough to eat a beautiful healthy baby

00:30:04.540 a loving husband and family and still she's looking to the heavens searching for something

00:30:10.020 and missing something and feeling less than or tired or not capable those are all really valid

00:30:15.780 things so to find other people as you just said traveling along that same path in life

00:30:19.760 makes you not feel so alone it doesn't your your issues don't have to sound you know cataclysmic

00:30:26.320 they're your issues. So that makes them real. Right. And I think what you just said about,

00:30:30.880 you know, where you have a moment in time where things are very difficult. Part of what we,

00:30:36.460 a lot of what we do, you know, in this podcast is bring on inspiring women like you who talk about

00:30:41.280 how did you persevere through, create your next act, reinvent yourself. And so many women

00:30:47.060 will be going through that, you know, as the kids grow up and then they start to answer the 1.00

00:30:51.500 question, well, what do I want to do when my kids grow up? Because you're in your fifth decade,

00:30:56.400 your sixth decade, we're not done, right? We're just getting going. And different energies happen

00:31:01.500 at different points in life. And I think that's really important for women is to sort of maybe 1.00

00:31:05.960 have in the back, like you've always had your writing and now you would like to write more. 0.97

00:31:09.760 And so that can make, I'm willing to bet, Lee, that there's another book inside of you that's

00:31:16.580 going to be coming out. Let's hope. Yeah. It's such hard work. Yeah. It's such hard work to

00:31:22.220 write a book. I can appreciate that. Yeah. So you had said something, I was reading one of your

00:31:27.740 blogs and you wrote something that really resonated with me. And this was back about

00:31:33.360 your 2018 travel with Bob to Bhutan. And you were transitioning from stay at home mom to empty

00:31:39.940 nester. And you said, if I may quote you, my adventures themselves had been hibernating during

00:31:45.380 the rearing of four cubs. There were years of policing and keeping them safe, reflexively

00:31:51.800 spouting, be careful or watch out. And the mother of all mothering wisdom, make smart choices.

00:31:59.800 Haven't we all been there? And so as a mom, that really resonated with me. And I realized that as

00:32:05.280 women, oftentimes we give up so much of who we are to be a stay-at-home mom. And so why was that

00:32:11.720 trip such a turning point for you? We started our marriage when we were dating. We backpacked. We

00:32:18.420 did a lot of active stuff. We started our marriage in China in a really rudimentary conditions at a

00:32:23.820 law school and traveling around with backpacks. And then we lost those people because of everything

00:32:30.620 you just said. And I always knew those people would come back. Were we able-bodied? And so

00:32:37.320 with everybody sort of, it's like the lifeguard with the swimmers in the pool, gotten to safety

00:32:44.200 and up on dry land, you can breathe a little bit. So you can go back to those people that you were.

00:32:51.740 And it was wonderful. It was a really rugged trip, not for everybody, but we just laughed a lot.

00:32:58.500 And that's so important in a marriage. Isn't that wonderful? And it has to, and I find that

00:33:04.100 even with my husband and I that now that our youngest is a senior in college where did the

00:33:09.680 time go right just like the grandma said in the grocery store and we are having so much fun there's

00:33:16.960 more laughter it's lighter in some ways responsibility right you're a little I mean

00:33:22.800 you're always going to worry about them right of course yeah I think when you become a mom

00:33:26.700 you have your official life license to be a lifetime warrior what somebody said to me was

00:33:33.100 what you can't see you can't worry about so when they're under your roof every night and they're

00:33:37.080 coming home and they're past curfew right right but it's uh what is the monkeys right don't see

00:33:43.980 don't hear don't talk about it right you just you can't worry about that has there been any mom

00:33:48.380 advice that you have given your kids over the years do a couple of pieces stand out as particular

00:33:55.260 moments of mom genius because we all have them well the one is sleep but I immediately heard

00:34:03.220 that is what advice do I have as a mom so I can answer things that came to my mind but for them

00:34:08.560 it's just sort of don't don't make a rash decision number one like go to bed and rest sleep on it

00:34:14.260 for them but for me I think the two biggest things that I learned as a mom were to

00:34:22.700 what's the line between being the friend you know and I and I think of the I don't know I don't know

00:34:31.100 this mother but you see her in movies and and tv shows with the matching crop top to her daughter 0.92

00:34:35.720 and tell me everything about me and that mom yeah yeah that mom are you having sex yet let me tell 1.00

00:34:41.260 you how to you know put a bit banana and and so weighing in is never a good thing because that

00:34:49.920 boyfriend that you just said you dislike or that friend you don't want them to hang out with

00:34:53.660 may come back in their lives and then you're going to sort of bite your tongue. So I tried to not

00:34:59.840 weigh in and judge on people unless something seemed like it was a dangerous aspect to somebody

00:35:07.440 they were hanging out with, which didn't happen, thankfully for me. So I didn't have to extract

00:35:11.560 somebody from a bad crowd. So staying neutral in that way and being the mother, you don't have to

00:35:16.520 be their friend. And then I think the other piece of advice was to just use the phrase, tell me

00:35:21.900 more. So if there was something they were saying, just listen, I would try to jump in and be

00:35:28.560 prescriptive and provide the solutions. And then all of a sudden your mom, your mom with the quips

00:35:34.920 and the quotes. So the best thing I could do was just stay interested and get them. They just

00:35:40.140 wanted to talk. Yes. They didn't necessarily want me to solve it. Does that sound familiar as a

00:35:44.260 I was just going to say, oh my gosh. I was just going to say there were times where my kids would

00:35:49.660 be complaining about something. And as mom, you go into problem solver mode, right? And my kids

00:35:55.900 would say, our middle daughter in particular would say, mom, I don't want you to solve it.

00:36:01.000 I just want you to listen. And I'm like, that's the message. Got it.

00:36:05.320 Yeah. And then I think the kicker to that, the chaser to that is sort of, well, I have some

00:36:10.740 thoughts. I mean, I have some experience having been there. Do you want it? I'm happy to share.

00:36:15.360 And they may not be like, no, you're old. Your experience doesn't matter. Yeah.

00:36:20.080 But isn't it funny how our kids are experiencing very similar things to what we did? I mean,

00:36:26.840 that again, goes back to the circle of life, right? There's so many similarities.

00:36:32.320 They think that we're old and that we don't know what it feels like to do X or Y or Z, but

00:36:36.260 it's all the same thing with different names and different wrapping.

00:36:39.020 Exactly. So since this is the Mom2More podcast, I would like to ask you, Lee Woodruff, what is your more?

00:36:47.760 My next act is going to be writing again in a regular way, not in the sort of margins of my life, which is what it's always been.

00:36:55.600 But I'm in no hurry. As I say, I really enjoy writing is a super isolating experience.

00:37:01.500 You're doubting yourself all the time. There's an angel and a devil on your shoulder saying, oh, this is really good.

00:37:06.300 And the next day you read it and you go, oh, this sucks.

00:37:08.840 So having the ballast of being able to interact with people like we're doing now,

00:37:13.180 working with people and still having that part of my life.

00:37:16.880 I don't know what the next phase looks like.

00:37:18.500 Bob and I are continually talking about where do we go?

00:37:22.200 You know, so many friends are moving to Florida or Arizona or something,

00:37:26.120 at least for part of the year.

00:37:27.360 And I don't feel any urge to do that yet.

00:37:29.920 I mean, I'm an older mother than some, you know,

00:37:34.360 other words, my kids just got out of college two years ago. So I don't feel like I've been kicking

00:37:39.200 around somewhere for 10 years and what's next. But I imagine that will start to slowly be the next

00:37:43.840 big question. And when that book is written, I'm going to have you back on the podcast and we're

00:37:49.600 going to talk all about it because I feel like we have so much more to talk about. So why don't you

00:37:55.320 tell my listeners where everyone can find you online? The easiest way is leewoodruff.com. And

00:38:01.000 that's my website. You can find my book recommendations there and any comments come

00:38:05.160 right to me. And on Instagram at Lee Woodruff, I don't post every day, but I try to post something

00:38:11.440 interesting. So I look forward to hearing from all your listeners. All of Lee's information can

00:38:16.360 be found in the show notes. So you can find everything there. Lee, I'm so grateful that

00:38:21.320 you were here today. Your insights, your wisdom, your humor, your truth, they're just beautiful.

00:38:28.400 And thank you for sharing that with me and with the audience, with all my listeners.

00:38:33.040 So thank you for that.

00:38:34.480 Well, thanks for having me on.

00:38:35.500 It was really enjoyable.

00:38:36.940 You're a good podcaster.

00:38:38.100 You're a good interviewer.

00:38:39.380 Keep it up.

00:38:40.180 Thank you.

00:38:40.880 And coming to me, that's a high compliment.

00:38:42.460 So I will take it.

00:38:46.420 Before I sign off, a quick favor.

00:38:48.760 I would love it if you would take a few moments to follow or subscribe to the pod.

00:38:52.580 Following us means you'll never miss an episode.

00:38:54.520 And it really does help the show to grow.

00:38:56.820 Just go to the Mom2More Show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you

00:39:01.560 listen in, tap the plus sign in the upper right corner or click on follow.

00:39:05.760 While you're there, if you'd be willing to leave a five-star rating and review and share

00:39:09.580 an episode with another mom, I'd be so grateful and appreciate your support.

00:39:13.740 Thanks for listening in and see you next time.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - October 13, 2024

Sunday Nice Things： Life Beyond Stay-at-home Motherhood

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