Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Why Dads Get a Medal and Moms Get Judged—Parenting Double-Standards and Back to School

00:00:00.000 Hey, y'all, Joey here, and welcome to Under the Influence.

00:00:10.180 I guess this is kind of a back-to-school episode, but also maybe a recap of the entire summer

00:00:17.540 episode.

00:00:18.520 It's going to be a lot of different things, and my guest today is none other than my lovely

00:00:22.380 husband, Nick Astor.

00:00:23.960 Thanks for having me.

00:00:24.900 It's nice to be called Lovely, and it's such a treat to be on the show, not once but twice

00:00:29.500 in recent succession. So this is cool. Yeah, this is great. I love having you here.

00:00:33.760 So we've had a busy summer. I kind of can't believe that it's over. There was a massive

00:00:40.640 book tour. We traveled all over the country. We had an unbelievable summer. I mean, I could

00:00:45.640 start listing bullet points and I don't know how far I'd get. I mean, I'd need multiple pages.

00:00:51.460 It's been very momentous. And we did a lot of travel with the kids. But I mean, I have to say,

00:00:57.540 I think it's a good reminder that traveling with the children is not a vacation.

00:01:01.100 It is a marathon.

00:01:03.460 It is.

00:01:04.080 And in hindsight, it was so rewarding and so awesome.

00:01:09.060 And during it, it was exhausting a lot of the time.

00:01:13.060 Yeah.

00:01:13.380 And I think, you know, we should reflect on our hindsight sometimes because there were things that I wouldn't do again.

00:01:19.240 But there were a lot of things I would do again.

00:01:20.980 You know, there were things that work.

00:01:23.040 What wouldn't you do again?

00:01:24.720 Well, you can only keep in the car so long.

00:01:27.540 For one thing.

00:01:28.620 Oh, I think we've gotten better at that, though.

00:01:30.300 I mean, when we when we first started traveling with them, we tried to do like five hours at a clip.

00:01:34.440 And I think we're pretty good at not doing any longer than two now without taking a break.

00:01:40.300 That's true.

00:01:41.160 Stabbing at playgrounds, the general, you know, not taking them to restaurants.

00:01:45.740 I mean, it's just universal that they're going to be bad, you know.

00:01:49.920 Yeah, they're really I mean, they're really awful in restaurants right now.

00:01:53.740 Just just generally.

00:01:54.540 But also, they're not good at sitting still, and I think that's a very normal reaction for a two-year-old, a five-year-old, and an eight-year-old.

00:02:04.720 Yeah, it's all well within the realm of normalcy, but I think there's ways of making it positive, right?

00:02:10.860 You know, if they want to sit there and stare at a rock and play with it for an hour and a half, let them do it.

00:02:18.060 Try not to hustle them along too hard.

00:02:19.780 You know, let them have that time.

00:02:21.000 But then when it's time to hustle them along, do it, you know, mindfully.

00:02:24.540 take them down the trail, but not too far.

00:02:27.000 Oh, now we're talking about hiking.

00:02:28.060 Hiking.

00:02:28.580 Now we're talking about hiking.

00:02:29.400 So we've switched from restaurants to hiking.

00:02:31.820 Well, you know, the rock was the segue to hiking.

00:02:34.700 Okay.

00:02:35.040 Yeah.

00:02:35.740 Yeah.

00:02:36.120 Well, no, for restaurants, I mean, the one thing that I've realized is the great thing

00:02:40.040 about summer, even though it's so freaking hot, is that we can take them to restaurants

00:02:43.280 that are outdoors.

00:02:44.660 So I prefer somewhere where there's, where there are, actually, I love a gravel floor

00:02:49.820 on a restaurant because there's lots of rocks to play with.

00:02:52.780 Yes.

00:02:53.320 And they will get into them and they will dig in them.

00:02:55.040 And they will dig in them.

00:02:55.820 Unless you're not throwing sand at people, we're sort of okay with that.

00:02:59.740 Yeah.

00:02:59.940 A gravel-floored outdoor restaurant is actually my savior at this point.

00:03:05.060 There's a few of them that we've encountered that actually embrace the fact that they have a gravel surface.

00:03:10.560 And they give the kids toys, like dump trucks and stuff to play with.

00:03:14.400 And I just, I'm like, I know that that restaurant owner has children.

00:03:17.480 And I'm like, thank you, sir.

00:03:18.900 Hot tip, if you're a restaurant owner, invest in some little dump trucks.

00:03:22.320 In some little dump trucks. 1.00

00:03:23.040 Cruise rounding.

00:03:23.960 Or maybe you don't want kids in your restaurant, and that is also fine, I guess, although children are human beings who live in the world.

00:03:30.840 I can't blame people for child-free zones.

00:03:34.100 Really? I do.

00:03:35.540 Oh, yeah. It's acceptable, if it's clearly stated.

00:03:39.240 One, I think it should be clearly stated.

00:03:40.880 And two, I think that most things should be acceptable to have children in until a certain hour, until maybe like five o'clock, right?

00:03:53.640 And after that, I don't take our kids to restaurants anymore.

00:03:57.520 No, that's true.

00:03:58.280 We do dine very early.

00:03:59.860 We dine very early.

00:04:00.640 Restaurants tend to be fairly empty when we're there. 0.91

00:04:02.380 Yeah, no, and on purpose, too, because our kids are crazy, crazy people in restaurants.

00:04:09.040 So you brought up hiking. We did do a lot of hiking this summer in addition to our road tripping.

00:04:16.340 What I feel for our kids' age is I just want them to enjoy the hiking.

00:04:21.340 And so if that just means a mile in, a mile in and out, like round trip, as long as they're having a good time, I'm down with that.

00:04:28.920 But you seem to keep pushing them on the trail. You're like, let's do a five mile up and back.

00:04:35.960 And I'm like, they will just lay down.

00:04:39.040 It's a stop.

00:04:40.300 Yeah, well, I might have pushed a little bit once or twice, but I'm starting to come around to the mileage limit.

00:04:48.500 Yeah, well, we did do Creek Quest, which I think was probably only two miles, maybe less.

00:04:54.800 It was at most two miles, but it was extremely difficult.

00:04:58.160 It was.

00:04:58.540 I mean, my toe is still badly damaged from that hike.

00:05:01.680 It is not easy to hike in a creek.

00:05:04.180 No, no, but that was a two-mile-long hike in a creek, but they loved it.

00:05:09.040 They did actually. Again, because there were a lot of things to stop and look at and there were fish to catch and there were creek deer, which were fun.

00:05:18.920 Trout, quite a few.

00:05:20.000 There were trout. There were trout. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, all in all, I think that we had a good summer of adventure and now it's time. Now it's back to school time.

00:05:28.680 I want to throw out there that I think the media makes way too much of back-to-school season.

00:05:35.700 It makes it seem like it's a hellscape for parents.

00:05:39.340 It really does.

00:05:39.860 Well, it's all about selling you outfits and things.

00:05:42.820 That's the thing.

00:05:43.560 I mean, I'm not saying that back-to-school is easy, but I do think that the media creates this crisis

00:05:51.120 and that marketing companies create a crisis around it so that they can sell you things.

00:05:56.820 Yes.

00:05:56.960 I remember that when I was a kid. I remember being very upset when sometime in mid-July you'd start seeing ads on TV for back to school.

00:06:06.940 And I remember thinking, that's outrageous. They should be banned from advertising that until August 20th.

00:06:13.760 Well, but everything I see on social media is, how are you surviving back to school? Are you okay for back to school?

00:06:19.700 And I honestly just started thinking about back to school two days ago.

00:06:25.520 And the first day is tomorrow, by the way.

00:06:27.460 By the time you're listening to this, it's already happened.

00:06:30.120 Yeah, it's already happened.

00:06:30.920 We've got the first day of school tomorrow, but we did an okay job.

00:06:34.280 You know, they've been sleeping in, and this morning we woke them up around 7.30.

00:06:39.140 Yeah, which is good.

00:06:41.120 You know, it needs to be a little later than that, but it'll be fine.

00:06:43.520 It'll be fine.

00:06:44.080 It'll be fine.

00:06:44.840 The transition is underway.

00:06:45.740 It's just going to be an abrupt transition.

00:06:47.320 We ordered a lot of back-to-school supplies.

00:06:49.920 our third graders school supply list was intensely complicated. And I do not complain

00:06:57.520 about buying school supplies at all. I will happily buy teachers, honestly, whatever they want,

00:07:03.340 because they are saints. Teachers are saints and they are doing incredibly hard work with tiny

00:07:10.820 budgets. So I will buy them whatever they want. But I will say the fact that we needed very specific

00:07:18.380 color composition books for every single different class that our third grader had.

00:07:24.660 Which is very hard to find.

00:07:25.740 The purple wasn't easy because the purple one wasn't in any of the variety packs that

00:07:31.200 I was finding.

00:07:32.060 And so then I had to buy purple separately, but then purple only came in like a 12 pack.

00:07:37.660 So now I think that we have 12 purple composition books.

00:07:41.400 We have 11 leftover ones.

00:07:42.640 I mean, in their defense, they will be used.

00:07:45.060 I mean, we go through notebooks in this house in about a week per notebook.

00:07:49.120 We do. We do.

00:07:50.300 So, yeah, so that was it was just so highly specific when when I was when I was ordering these things. 0.83

00:07:57.680 But then, thank God, our kindergartner, her teacher just wants cash money.

00:08:02.500 And I'm like, I will give you.

00:08:03.560 That's easier.

00:08:04.340 I'll give you all the cash money if I don't if I don't have to order 12 purple composition books.

00:08:08.900 It's the style, you know, some it's either way.

00:08:11.340 I'm glad that it's going to be very well organized.

00:08:13.660 Yes, it's what it seems like to me.

00:08:15.280 Yeah, we'll see.

00:08:16.120 We'll see.

00:08:16.660 And I mean, I think we're ready for back to school.

00:08:19.520 I'm certainly ready to have them go back to school, even though it's been a good summer with them.

00:08:24.860 I think it'll be nice for them to get back into a schedule because they've been getting a little.

00:08:30.860 I mean, look, the kids are feral anytime, but the lack of a regular schedule, I think, has made them.

00:08:38.340 I think this is going to make them a little less feral.

00:08:40.160 A little less feral.

00:08:40.320 Make it stand to be a little less feral.

00:08:42.340 I'm all for ferility, if that's a word.

00:08:44.760 That's not a word.

00:08:45.480 Ferility is not a word, my friend.

00:08:48.460 Feral behavior.

00:08:49.940 Anyway, they could stand to be a little less feral.

00:08:52.220 This will do them some more.

00:08:52.800 Oh, no, they could.

00:08:53.600 They could.

00:08:53.960 They also have not worn shoes in weeks.

00:08:57.240 Weeks.

00:08:58.400 Weeks.

00:08:58.860 Yeah.

00:09:00.420 However, you know, I'm a little nervous, though, because as you know, you know, there's been a ritual at school for years with Charlie where each grade has kind of a, the parents stand around as they walk into school.

00:09:12.340 and there's a high five line.

00:09:15.180 There's a wave.

00:09:16.580 There's some ritual for the third graders.

00:09:19.700 I don't know what it is.

00:09:20.320 There's no ritual.

00:09:20.760 I don't think there's a third grade ritual.

00:09:22.340 Maybe that's the age we say off you go.

00:09:23.940 Off you go.

00:09:24.460 Yeah, but for kindergartners,

00:09:25.960 there's always been a high five line

00:09:27.920 where all the parents line up and give high fives.

00:09:31.520 And then first grade,

00:09:32.660 they walk up a flight of stairs

00:09:34.240 and there's a window and they do a window wave.

00:09:36.880 In second grade, also window wave.

00:09:39.460 And now I think third grade, we just let them go.

00:09:41.220 Okay. Well, I'm cool with that.

00:09:42.620 Yeah. 0.69

00:09:43.040 But this is going to be tough for Bea because she hasn't had anything.

00:09:46.220 And we've been instructed that, you know, on day one tomorrow, as soon as the whistle blows, we say, see you later.

00:09:53.200 And we walk off the playground and just tell her to stay in the line.

00:09:57.740 And hopefully she just strolls on in.

00:10:00.060 I think she'll do it.

00:10:00.940 I think it's probably in the long run a good thing.

00:10:03.140 But the first couple of days might be tough.

00:10:04.960 I think she's going to be okay because they didn't have a high five line and then took it away from her.

00:10:10.100 Right.

00:10:10.460 So, in fact, I actually think it's better for the kindergartners to not linger.

00:10:16.300 I think you just have to, like, throw them in a scrum and run.

00:10:18.920 Right.

00:10:19.360 Run away. 1.00

00:10:20.220 Run away. 0.97

00:10:21.920 All right.

00:10:22.900 Let's take a quick break.

00:10:23.900 And when we get back, I want to reflect on something from Book Tour, which I realized.

00:10:28.800 And that's the fact that moms and dads, when they're in the wild with their kids, are treated radically differently.

00:10:40.460 Okay, we are back. I was on book tour alone for a week. It was magical. I mean, it truly was. I do

00:10:51.280 not think that we talk nearly enough about how incredible it is to be alone. And the fact that

00:10:56.340 that is okay. It is not just okay, but awesome that you enjoy time away from your spouse and

00:11:03.340 your children. And I think we all deserve it and we need it and we should carve that time out.

00:11:07.740 people kept asking me if I was so tired for that first week of book tour because I was in a

00:11:13.120 different city every night. I was on a plane every day. And I honestly said, I'm like, no,

00:11:18.660 I feel amazing. I feel like I have 19 hands in the airport because I have no children with me.

00:11:24.200 And this is just so easy. I got to leave a book event and then go back, watch whatever I wanted

00:11:30.700 on TV, order room service, go to sleep, and wake up with no one touching me. So that was amazing.

00:11:38.560 And then Nick was nice enough to come meet me in Milwaukee for the second leg of the book tour,

00:11:44.100 and he flew alone with our three children. And I posted this on Instagram,

00:11:49.260 and a lot of you responded, he was truly treated like a golden god in that airport.

00:11:54.400 Yeah, well, all I can offer is my personal anecdote on this story. But I say it in contrast to, you know, many of the things that you've often talked about, about how you feel sometimes when you're with the kids alone and you feel a sense of judgment. The kids, you know, hair isn't brushed, the shoes aren't on, whatever, you know. And I will say that at least my personal experience has been different.

00:12:21.220 Yes, it has.

00:12:21.940 And it's not a sense of judgment.

00:12:23.140 People are judging me.

00:12:24.040 People are actively judging mothers when we are alone with our children.

00:12:28.360 You know, they will look at me.

00:12:29.820 If I'm in an airport with three children, no one looks at me and thinks, oh, my God, can I help you?

00:12:33.520 They think, oh, my God, those kids are hot messes.

00:12:37.200 Where is that baby's shoes? 1.00

00:12:39.300 This mother is failing. 0.89

00:12:41.660 I mean, honestly, like people stop me all the time.

00:12:44.520 And they're like, oh, you lost one back there.

00:12:47.900 And I'm like, I know where it is.

00:12:49.600 Okay.

00:12:50.380 I can see it.

00:12:51.640 I can see it.

00:12:52.140 But that's not how you were treated in the airport.

00:12:54.100 It's very funny.

00:12:54.980 No, it's funny.

00:12:55.980 I get the opposite.

00:12:56.860 I'm walking with three kids, and this has happened more than a few times.

00:12:59.800 Happens at airports, happens on the street, you know, and inevitably someone will go, hey, it's super dad.

00:13:05.440 You know, a man or a woman.

00:13:07.080 People will high five me.

00:13:08.820 Women will come up to me, particularly older women, and they'll say, you are doing a wonderful job.

00:13:14.120 Meanwhile, the two of them are punching each other and, you know, one of them is missing a shoe.

00:13:18.220 you are doing a wonderful job it's completely different it's bizarre um i'll tell you a real

00:13:23.900 funny story the airport story one of my favorites so i'm at the philadelphia airport six o'clock in

00:13:29.580 the morning for some god-awful early flight might have even earlier than that and um i got all three

00:13:36.660 kids we managed to get through tsa one of them forgets a bag the tsa agent comes running after

00:13:42.520 me in the hallway says excuse me i believe you've lost this bag oh my god thank you sir

00:13:47.260 and gives me the bag you know like not just like you know sorry you're out of luck or maybe you get

00:13:52.180 paged but actually you know followed me into the airport gave me the bags and have a nice day yeah

00:13:56.540 meanwhile my my general encounter with tsa agents with the children is having them stop me to

00:14:02.820 analyze my breast milk yes exactly or some uh yeah some other object um so anyway so i finally get to

00:14:09.740 the place where there's some coffee and of course there's a line 75 people long you know and i take

00:14:14.940 one look at it and I'm holding the kids and I just muttered something under my breath, probably

00:14:19.740 a profanity and said, well, I'm not getting coffee. Let's just sit down kids. And so we go and we sit

00:14:25.580 down and finally find a place to sit. And, you know, I don't know, five or 10 minutes later,

00:14:32.680 this guy walks up to me and says, hey man, and hands me a coffee and just turns around and walks

00:14:37.940 away. And I was just stunned. You know, I couldn't believe it. I was like, you know, a guy just

00:14:43.580 observed me and just walked up and bought me a coffee so anyway it's a contrast it's a contrast

00:14:49.220 no one has ever bought me a coffee when i'm alone with our three children i only get dirty looks

00:14:54.340 and irritation yeah people so i've told the story a few times and i think that like you know the

00:14:59.240 moral of it is i don't want to get into whether men are more supportive in these conditions men

00:15:04.780 are more supported in these conditions maybe they are but the point is we can learn from this and i

00:15:09.340 could tell you that coffee was was a miracle you know and if you see someone in that position

00:15:15.240 buy them a coffee anyone carry their anyone a guy i was at the grocery with just one child today

00:15:21.300 and i'm going in and out people stopped on the sidewalk and they said oh let me get that door

00:15:26.840 for you shut up oh yeah you didn't tell me this yeah just now about an hour ago you know and uh

00:15:33.360 that never happens to me in fact i had two people sort of arguing about who was going to hold the 0.98

00:15:38.980 door on the way out um and you only had one child yeah in a single stroller yeah yes yeah yeah this

00:15:46.120 this never happens to me i am constantly asking people to get the door for me and then they're

00:15:51.060 annoyed they're annoyed that i've asked them oh yeah but no i mean the lesson is if you see

00:15:56.840 someone struggling with a child anyone a mom a dad a grandma a grandpa a caregiver of any sort

00:16:03.960 you just help them i mean i do it's not that hard and it makes you feel good i do a library

00:16:08.960 I mean, I go so far as to creepily offer to hold people's babies sometimes.

00:16:14.180 And some people are just because we live in a society that's rightfully terrified of pedophiles.

00:16:19.920 But some people are like, no, it's okay.

00:16:21.540 And I'm like, no, trust me.

00:16:22.360 I have three kids.

00:16:23.140 And sometimes they look at me and I'm like, yeah, she does.

00:16:26.220 And then other times they're like, creep, total creep.

00:16:29.360 It's possible.

00:16:29.900 People have been trained to be.

00:16:31.500 I know.

00:16:32.180 We've been really trained to be wary of strangers.

00:16:33.600 But the majority of mothers have taken me up on it.

00:16:36.700 And I'll just hold that baby while they get their luggage out of the thing or while they unfold a stroller.

00:16:43.540 And I don't care if that baby hates me because usually a baby doesn't want to go to a stranger.

00:16:47.240 They can hate me all they want.

00:16:48.540 I don't care.

00:16:49.000 It's not mine.

00:16:50.700 But there's a lesson to be learned there, isn't there?

00:16:52.700 Right?

00:16:53.060 I mean.

00:16:53.560 Just be a kind human being in the world.

00:16:55.720 Yeah.

00:16:56.140 Yeah.

00:16:56.820 I mean, that's the biggest thing that I'm hoping to teach our kids right now.

00:17:01.160 And I think it's one of the hardest lessons to impart.

00:17:03.820 You know, I just it's the philosophy of how to be a good human being these days. And I think the most important thing we can do is model it by showing us helping other people, offering to help as much as possible. But that's my biggest challenge lately. It's how to get them out of their own heads and to recognize when they should be taking notice of what's going on around them and how to be more helpful.

00:17:33.560 Absolutely.

00:17:34.900 Yeah, it's been rough.

00:17:35.740 I mean, we got home last night after driving back from the Catskills.

00:17:39.780 We carried in probably 15 bags into the house.

00:17:44.240 And Charlie immediately dumped an entire puzzle out on the floor.

00:17:47.680 Yeah, that was pretty audacious.

00:17:48.880 It was pretty audacious.

00:17:49.960 I mean, we try not to lose our temper, but that was one of those things where you're like, my God.

00:17:55.000 I was like, bro, do you see all the things we're about to put away?

00:17:58.720 And you're going to do a puzzle.

00:18:00.480 Not only just do a puzzle, but literally in the middle of the floor.

00:18:03.000 In the middle of it.

00:18:03.980 While we're trying to carry bags.

00:18:05.080 So we'd have to step over him.

00:18:06.860 Yeah.

00:18:07.080 Yeah.

00:18:07.740 But I think we did the right thing, which was, oh, no.

00:18:11.380 You put that puzzle away, and now you're helper number one.

00:18:15.000 Now you will put everything away.

00:18:18.140 20 explicit tasks.

00:18:20.060 I think.

00:18:20.380 The bag goes over there.

00:18:21.400 Yes.

00:18:21.980 Yes.

00:18:22.380 This thing gets unpacked over there.

00:18:24.320 Yeah.

00:18:24.700 And he did come around a bit.

00:18:26.420 I mean, I think.

00:18:27.020 He was fine.

00:18:27.300 I think it sunk him a little bit.

00:18:28.720 He did it.

00:18:29.220 I mean, look, I think that all of parenting is truly trial and error.

00:18:35.000 And that's my biggest gripe with parenting influencers, because most of them are not experts on anything.

00:18:42.620 I mean, the majority of parenting influencers are not doctors or even psychologists.

00:18:50.640 They're just parents who, like, one time tried something with their kid and it worked, and now they want to give you tips.

00:18:56.740 And sometimes those tips are helpful, but I think often they just, it's just a lot of noise. And I think that my best parenting advice is always just trial and error. You try something, you see if it works. Every kid is different.

00:19:12.540 Like, I cannot reprimand Bea the same as I can reprimand Charlie, and I don't even know what's going on with Eliza. And so you just, you try all of the things. There's no one tried and true method for how to be a parent.

00:19:28.540 Yet it is an eternal conversation and people do love to talk about it. And there is something to be said for hearing other people's tales because that's how you may learn new ideas for what to try and what might not work.

00:19:43.140 Oh, no, I love to hear like what other parents are doing.

00:19:46.540 In fact, I was talking to Casey yesterday.

00:19:49.420 The kids were swimming before we got in the car to drive home.

00:19:52.340 And I was saying how I was having trouble imparting value on things, like telling them to treat things well, to take care of their objects, to not.

00:20:04.360 And toads.

00:20:05.740 Oh, OK.

00:20:06.420 Taking care of toads is a whole different conversation.

00:20:09.380 But this is to take care of their things, their toys, their books.

00:20:13.140 And Casey said she's actually been trying something new, which I tested out a little bit last night, because just applying a monetary value to something then makes them think about money as value all the time, which I don't love.

00:20:27.280 So what Casey's been doing has been she's been telling them, she's like, let's think about all the people that put in work to make this thing.

00:20:35.080 Right, right.

00:20:35.880 Let's think about the people.

00:20:37.180 I've tried to do that with all the people that have spent time making Charlie's dinner, but that hasn't sunk yet.

00:20:41.960 That hasn't sunk in yet.

00:20:42.900 He still doesn't eat food.

00:20:44.260 But yeah, but like all the people who spent time making this book and then delivering it to you and getting it to you.

00:20:51.880 And she said that's been sinking in with her kids a little bit.

00:20:55.000 I like that argument.

00:20:55.920 I like that one.

00:20:56.600 No, no.

00:20:57.040 I love hearing what other parents are doing.

00:20:59.520 I just don't like anyone touting themselves as a parenting expert.

00:21:05.780 Well.

00:21:06.260 Because I just don't think it's a real thing.

00:21:07.640 It's not a real thing.

00:21:08.960 That's just it.

00:21:10.180 No one is an expert in this.

00:21:11.380 No one has cracked this code, okay?

00:21:13.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:21:14.420 Well, that's just media at some point, right?

00:21:16.340 I mean, people are titling themselves as experts in all kinds of things with varying levels of true expertise.

00:21:22.000 No, it's true.

00:21:22.580 I mean, when I wrote How to Be Married, the media kept wanting to call me a marriage expert.

00:21:27.240 And I'm like...

00:21:28.040 Because it works.

00:21:29.140 Because it works.

00:21:29.860 Whether it's true or not.

00:21:30.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:21:31.180 I don't believe you'd even been married at that point.

00:21:33.280 That was way before we got married.

00:21:34.800 No, I was married by the time the book came out.

00:21:37.220 Right.

00:21:37.600 But I wrote the book.

00:21:38.560 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:39.180 We traveled around and got advice from around the world, and I wrote How to Be Married before we were married, and then it came out when we were married.

00:21:48.560 But I was very careful to be like, I'm not an expert in anything.

00:21:51.820 I know nothing.

00:21:53.160 This book is about how I know nothing and how I'm trying to figure it out.

00:21:56.460 But most of these interviewers probably hadn't read the book.

00:21:59.060 No, of course they didn't.

00:21:59.820 So they just said, wait, who's marriage expert?

00:22:01.620 Joe Piazza?

00:22:02.420 Yeah, Joe Piazza, expert in nothing.

00:22:03.960 And that's fine. For the sake of, you know, an entry point to a piece of media, I think that that's inevitable.

00:22:10.580 Sure. Sure. I mean, look, I'm very happy to call myself a trad wife expert. In fact, America's leading.

00:22:15.180 I think you are one.

00:22:15.900 America's leading trad wife expert. 0.81

00:22:17.220 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Who has written the greatest trad wife murder mystery? 0.84

00:22:21.540 No, I mean, I am. I'm it. I'm number one, friends. All right, let's take one more quick break. 0.99

00:22:33.960 Okay, we are back with the back-to-school edition of Under the Influence.

00:22:39.700 It's wild to me that there is no standard back-to-school week.

00:22:45.780 I have some friends in the South whose kids went back to school three weeks ago.

00:22:50.540 And then our kids went back to school this week.

00:22:52.880 And then our friends in New York don't go back to school until next week.

00:22:57.100 This variation is crazy to me.

00:23:00.420 And I also hate, I really hate going back to school before Labor Day because it just, it kind of like renders Labor Day a non-holiday at this point.

00:23:11.680 Yeah, it's true.

00:23:13.100 I'm not complaining about it too much.

00:23:15.740 It's a little odd.

00:23:17.040 There's plenty of ways I would change the school year.

00:23:21.160 Oh my God, I have so many thoughts for changing the school year.

00:23:23.500 It's always been different.

00:23:24.580 I don't recall there being, it being standard.

00:23:27.240 If you're in one big school district, sure.

00:23:29.400 But then there's the private schools that do their thing.

00:23:31.700 And I don't remember it being.

00:23:34.080 Well, that is the most annoying thing for us because the baby is still in preschool.

00:23:39.520 And she doesn't start school until next week.

00:23:42.160 So she's home all this week.

00:23:44.060 Right.

00:23:44.280 And then the two big kids are finally in the same public school, which is just a godsend.

00:23:49.960 That is going to be a miracle.

00:23:51.700 It's magical.

00:23:52.600 It's truly magical.

00:23:53.380 I mean, for the past couple of years, we've been doing three different school drop-offs in the morning, which is insane to me.

00:24:01.960 Yeah.

00:24:02.660 And I'm very much thinking, when the other one is in, you know, then it's really going to be great, which is certain.

00:24:07.980 Just have Charlie walk him.

00:24:09.100 He'll be old enough.

00:24:10.540 Sure.

00:24:11.000 Not quite.

00:24:11.500 Not quite.

00:24:12.000 I mean, I think you can actually be sued now if you allow your children to walk to school alone as a bad parent.

00:24:18.120 I mean, probably only as a mother, though.

00:24:19.280 a father would be allowed to do honestly whatever he wanted uh with regards to his children walking

00:24:25.540 to school you'd just be like oh i'm sorry judge i was alone with them and the judge would be like

00:24:31.220 you're super dad yeah you're super dad let's be honest but you know um yeah i would change some

00:24:39.660 things about the school year but this is we're looking forward to this i think this is going to

00:24:43.160 be great you know um there's gonna be a little less help around the house oh that's that's an

00:24:49.320 interesting thing to talk about actually i uh so i get asked this so much in all of my book events

00:24:55.800 you know people are like how do you do what you do you write a book a year at this point

00:25:02.620 you make the podcasts and you have three children i don't think that men get asked this question i

00:25:09.720 think people just assume that someone is watching men's children probably a woman uh and i'm very

00:25:16.060 quick to remind people that we have full-time child care i'm not just writing books while my

00:25:22.540 children sit you know lovingly at my feet because my children would never do that um they don't do

00:25:30.560 that they don't do that isn't there one under your chair no there's not there's not no there's

00:25:34.720 no children in here. Two of them are with mom right now and one of them is napping and will

00:25:39.800 wake up any second. So this is like a hustle of a podcast episode. We have a window. This is the

00:25:46.020 most hustly of a podcast episode. And all I want to do is also go on a bike ride. But I don't know

00:25:51.160 if that's going to happen. And you want to take a shower. Yeah. Yeah. Some point. Some point. So

00:25:55.760 it doesn't always happen. It doesn't always happen. No, it doesn't. It doesn't. But I am

00:26:00.820 quick to tell everyone that we have full-time child care we've been working with an au pair

00:26:06.380 service for five years now so we've actually had someone living in our house yeah uh who can work

00:26:12.900 up to 45 hours a week um but i said we don't need that anymore since the kids have gotten bigger

00:26:19.880 and they're in they're in school so we never need that much help but we have kids in school

00:26:25.460 or child care from nine to five every single day.

00:26:28.320 And I could not be a working mother without that.

00:26:31.980 Yeah, it would be impossible.

00:26:33.520 It would be impossible.

00:26:34.820 However, here we go.

00:26:35.800 But we are about to, we are going to be au pair.

00:26:39.480 We're taking a big leap of faith.

00:26:40.760 We're going to be au pair.

00:26:41.300 But I'm confident in this.

00:26:42.620 Yeah.

00:26:43.040 No, we are.

00:26:43.660 Or au pair free.

00:26:45.000 Au pair, au pair.

00:26:45.900 Actually, au pair free.

00:26:47.000 Au pair free.

00:26:47.920 We're going to have a whole room in our house.

00:26:49.760 A whole room.

00:26:50.980 Like a room I haven't been in in years.

00:26:54.640 Actually, we've lived with someone, with a caregiver, since we moved into this particular house.

00:27:01.220 So we've never actually lived in that room.

00:27:03.100 Yeah.

00:27:03.520 Yeah.

00:27:03.880 This is unbelievable.

00:27:05.120 What should we do with it?

00:27:06.120 Should we turn it into like a disco party?

00:27:08.240 It could just be our party room.

00:27:09.900 I think Charlie thinks he's moving into it.

00:27:11.860 So we'll find out.

00:27:12.900 We'll see how that goes down.

00:27:13.660 But anyway, this is a big deal for us.

00:27:14.920 It's a big deal for us.

00:27:15.480 Well, all three kids will be in school until three o'clock and then we'll be figuring it out.

00:27:21.440 So this is a new child care landscape for us. And again, it's something I want to talk about because I hear from people all the time that we, I don't think we're pretending to do it all, but we're not always transparent about the level of help we have in terms of caregiving.

00:27:38.180 I think that's really important to do because a lot of the guilt and shame over not being enough for our kids comes from we don't we don't know how other people do this.

00:27:52.060 And so I try to be as transparent about it as possible.

00:27:55.020 Yeah.

00:27:55.340 You know, and we've done it all.

00:27:57.480 We've done we've done a mixture of, you know, since we've had two kids, we've had someone living here and helping out.

00:28:04.420 We tried.

00:28:05.420 we tried having a full-time nanny i was finding a full-time nanny in san francisco was really hard

00:28:11.820 and it was essentially impossible it was essentially impossible cost an unbelievable

00:28:15.580 fortune um also and and caregivers also deserve all of the money it isn't not undeserved but no

00:28:22.920 but in san francisco everything cost a fortune and then also we tried daycare which also cost

00:28:29.860 fortune in san francisco and the daycare we try the daycares in san francisco were so creepy too

00:28:36.060 and you couldn't get in you couldn't get in yeah waitlist there was a waitlist for two years yeah

00:28:40.880 um and then we've tried and so we've tried just trading off the baby we just traded off charlie

00:28:47.160 i can't believe we did that that was tough but we actually did we did it yeah we did it

00:28:51.920 that was really that but that was that was intense uh so we've tried every iteration of it and now

00:28:57.700 we've got the three of them in some version of school from nine to three from 830 to three yeah

00:29:03.680 uh and we'll see how we do that but my mom also lives nearby now which is also worth mentioning

00:29:10.560 yeah yeah yeah i mean in fact the big kids are with her right now she just you know they went

00:29:15.660 swimming and went out for pizza and yeah all all of the things we have all all of these options

00:29:21.720 we're cobbling it together and figuring it out and but i do wish that we talked more about it

00:29:27.560 But because also when we don't talk about it and when people try to pretend like, oh, we just do it all, then the government, but the government can ignore the cost of child care, both the monetary costs and the unsung emotional labors, because everyone is just acting like child care doesn't exist or that we just that we just all get it done somehow when that is not the case.

00:29:52.840 Well, we do get it done somehow, but at a cost that is often unacknowledged.

00:29:57.940 At an unacknowledged cost.

00:29:59.780 Exactly.

00:30:00.760 Exactly.

00:30:01.400 All right.

00:30:01.700 Let's close out.

00:30:02.480 What was your favorite thing we did this summer?

00:30:04.240 Oh, my God.

00:30:05.620 Impossible.

00:30:06.540 It's like saying, you know, what's your favorite flavor of ice cream?

00:30:10.160 I mean, there's just so many.

00:30:11.300 I have a favorite flavor of ice cream.

00:30:12.740 I don't.

00:30:13.340 I like them all.

00:30:14.300 Most of them, anyway.

00:30:15.040 Okay.

00:30:17.260 Here's the highlights.

00:30:18.960 The book tour in general.

00:30:20.640 It was good.

00:30:21.060 It was a blast.

00:30:22.160 We'd wait to have them in Milwaukee.

00:30:24.820 We had a couple trips to the shore.

00:30:27.020 Our last two weeks in the Catskills were phenomenal.

00:30:30.640 They were.

00:30:31.100 Oh, well, we did a big camp out the night of the Persid shower. 0.97

00:30:34.020 Yes.

00:30:35.140 Well, we witnessed a literal UFO.

00:30:37.540 We did.

00:30:38.000 We did.

00:30:38.260 I mean, we were hanging out by the campfire, waiting for the meteor shower, and all of

00:30:43.280 a sudden we saw an unidentified flying object.

00:30:46.000 In the most literal sense.

00:30:47.460 I mean, it was glowing.

00:30:48.660 It was spinning.

00:30:50.140 It was persistent.

00:30:51.220 It was a sphere.

00:30:51.800 Yeah.

00:30:52.160 Well, it was like it was some kind of object with what appeared to be a spiraling glow coming off of it.

00:31:00.460 It looked like a spacecraft.

00:31:02.720 And it was a spacecraft.

00:31:04.660 And it was.

00:31:05.160 And we were also in the middle of a field with no Wi-Fi.

00:31:08.260 So it's not like we could just Google what's happening.

00:31:11.240 And I mean, my immediate thought was the world is going to end tomorrow.

00:31:15.580 Well, I just thought, you know, I hope everybody sees this so that we can verify that it wasn't a personal hallucination.

00:31:23.060 Yeah, I know.

00:31:23.560 It was that unusual.

00:31:24.280 It was that unusual.

00:31:25.120 But there were four adults seeing it and all the kids saw it.

00:31:27.700 And you took a video of it and it turns out that it was it was a rocket.

00:31:30.840 Yes.

00:31:31.620 We're not sure which one.

00:31:32.680 Actually, there's some debate.

00:31:33.680 It was either a French rocket or a U.S. rocket.

00:31:36.500 And this was the booster stage re-entering the atmosphere and off-gassing some kind of material that it does, either before it burns up or maybe it was one of the ones that came in and landed. I don't know. But it was definitely a, you know, human-produced object.

00:31:56.760 Yeah, it was wild. I think that was one of my favorites, the meteor shower camp out that turned into a UFO sighting.

00:32:04.160 Yeah, that was a great night.

00:32:06.380 Yeah, that was wild. That was totally wild. And then also, we saw a lot of bears.

00:32:10.360 We saw quite a few bears. We have photo evidence, too.

00:32:13.100 We have photo evidence. We have a lot of bears.

00:32:14.820 Bears' biceps are beefier than you might think.

00:32:17.560 Bears have big biceps.

00:32:18.420 We have a strange photo of a bear from the game cam of his face and then of his arm as he was tipping over our very heavy trash can, which is bolted shut so you can't get in it.

00:32:30.120 But it doesn't stop from tipping it over and rolling it around.

00:32:32.700 Yeah, no, it looks like a Yeti arm. It looks like a furry Yeti arm.

00:32:36.380 So, yeah, all in all, great summer.

00:32:39.060 Like, I don't, during parts of it, it was exhausting.

00:32:42.080 But I've got to say, like, the amount of complaining I see on social media is, I think it's high because the algorithm rewards complaining.

00:32:51.520 Because most people I know just had a summer where, like, sometimes it's crap and sometimes it's awesome. 0.59

00:32:58.020 And, like, we're all living in the in-between.

00:32:59.380 But if you scroll through social media, it seems like everyone is in dire straits all the time.

00:33:04.440 again because i think the algorithm rewards like both extremes of something right and i wouldn't

00:33:12.600 know that's one thing i can't comment yeah i know because you are not on the social media

00:33:16.500 so happy about that i know god bless you nick astor that must be nice that must be a nice life

00:33:20.580 for you um all right let's close it out with that let's close it out with that all right good luck

00:33:25.840 with back to school everybody although you've got this it's going to be totally fine and also part

00:33:29.920 of it's gonna suck but part of it will be just normal because that's the that's the part we don't

00:33:34.780 see on social media we don't just see like the normal parts of life which are fine most of the

00:33:40.840 time

00:33:59.920 Thank you.

00:34:29.920 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - August 26, 2025

Why Dads Get a Medal and Moms Get Judged—Parenting Double-Standards and Back to School

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