00:00:00.000classes in session how's everybody doing today welcome to unlearn 16 classes in session today
00:00:08.440i have denisha carter another amazing incredible intelligent tiktoker i built you up really big
00:00:15.880right there so they're like you got mountains to climb no not at all uh and and i'm super grateful
00:00:22.240for her being here she has an amazing channel an amazing perspective and what i like so much
00:00:26.860about you is we're probably not only going to, we're not always going to agree on everything.
00:00:33.580I agree with that. You agree with that? You agree with that?
00:00:38.360Well, yeah, a little bit, maybe give us a little bit about yourself and then,
00:00:42.000and then we'll jump right into disagreeing. Nicely. Definitely. Yeah, no, I've kind of built
00:00:49.500my TikTok channel around those tough conversations, controversial conversations,
00:00:54.120Just the idea that people can have different opinions and still, you know, have respect for each other, respect for each other's intelligence, really just opening the space for dialogue and kind of what's come with that.
00:04:21.800You just didn't like the way that labels have maybe been used to divide.
00:04:25.920And so if our goal is the same, how do we get there?
00:04:30.640what is your do you have a an idea of how to traverse that I think and this is probably the
00:04:38.400most simplistic or I don't know perspective on it but it's kind of in my content to a certain
00:04:46.620extent something with the calmness or some of the purpose of the calmness is to get people to
00:04:52.700understand that not everything has to be treated like an inflammatory hot button issue. Even
00:05:01.440sometimes if it is, and don't get me wrong, there are definitely things that I'm incredibly
00:05:05.600passionate about that I could absolutely raise my voice and scream and get angry about. But when
00:05:09.700you do that, you put everybody on the defense. Nobody's listening to each other. Nobody wants
00:05:14.440to have the conversation. And so I've kind of tried to make my page and make the way I go about
00:05:19.680talking about these topics, nuanced and where people are aware, you can come in and you can
00:05:26.400have this conversation. And it makes people who have those aversions to maybe identifying as a
00:05:31.760feminist or whatever other aversions they would have, be willing to sit down and talk to you.
00:05:36.620If you have the patience and the time, not saying that it's your responsibility to do that, but
00:05:40.560if you want to have those conversations, you have to make the environment comfortable enough to do
00:05:45.000so absolutely i think and and so you would say the best direct line is through conversation
00:05:53.160that's it conversation and then going out and of course demonstrating the the good behavior you
00:05:58.920claim or the you know whatever you claim to represent actually demonstrating that through
00:06:04.760your behavior now would you agree that that let's say issues of sexism or um patriarchy exist on a
00:06:13.720functional or a structural level absolutely okay so and and you would still say that the best way
00:06:21.000to overcome or dismantle those are through talk what about things like affirmative action i think
00:06:29.320it starts with a conversation who's calling me sorry about that i think it starts with the
00:06:35.400conversation part of the show huh she just picked it up made it a part of the show
00:06:40.360I think it starts with a conversation and then it starts to, then it goes to the action. It leads to the action. We do have to get people to understand where legitimate issues lie, have those conversations with the different perspectives, and then have the conversation about how do we fix it, which then turns into action, then turns into protesting, voting, the reallocation of funds, uplifting certain people and getting them into certain places, whatever those courses of action are.
00:07:07.380but I think you have to start by getting people kind of on the same page to the best of your
00:07:11.460ability which no one's ever going to fully agree but it helps to get people so loud outside
00:07:19.000the motorcycle gang yeah it helps to get people in the same so when it comes to things like
00:07:27.300affirmative action I mean it you say those two words and you usually really you know you put
00:07:34.400people on edge right away. And that includes, if we're just talking about women here, I mean,
00:07:39.760obviously this can be applied to race and this can be applied in different contexts. But if we're
00:07:44.100just going to stick to women for five seconds, I know a lot of women that I'll say words like1.00
00:07:49.040affirmative action and they immediately, like the women immediately come down on it. Don't you ever1.00
00:07:53.860give me a job just because I'm a woman. What do you think about that perception or the way that
00:08:00.440people recognize affirmative action in our culture right now i think that perspective is
00:08:08.920really simplistic and it's based in a talking point because when you do have the people who go
00:08:13.640out and say things like well affirmative action means you're not good enough to get the job on
00:08:18.040your own merit you got it because of what you look like or what your identity is and i think
00:08:22.600the question after that is why do you think those things are mutually exclusive why do you think
00:08:27.080that because I am a woman or because I'm black or because whatever that protected group is,
00:08:32.440they can't also be qualified, but be getting the eyes because of what affirmative action has done.
00:08:36.960I think people forget because it's been a certain amount of time or because maybe the issues aren't
00:08:42.940as blatant in front of our faces anymore, that there was a period in time that there were such
00:08:46.800strict barriers for certain groups of people to even enter rooms and positions that they wanted
00:08:51.680to be in. We wouldn't need or wouldn't have needed affirmative action if those barriers didn't exist.
00:08:57.080And it's silly to assume or pretend that every single obstacle from those periods of time or from that period of time that prevented those people from reaching those places is just gone because we've passed whatever progressive law or because we've changed things on a surface level.
00:09:15.160The fallout from all of that still very much so exists in many aspects of our life.
00:09:19.200And I think whenever we're having conversations about affirmative action and what that actually means, we have to, again, ask ourselves, is this necessary? And explain why, why it was, why it is. And, you know, if we get to a point where things are equal and the world is looking like people are getting those opportunities, maybe we can have those conversations about, is this still necessary? But currently, it is.
00:09:43.660And I think it's quite interesting because I think that when people hear affirmative action,
00:09:48.200they immediately give me this example. Like, it's like, oh, you have a woman that weighs 97
00:09:52.600pounds and can't lift a hammer. And all of a sudden she's the new firefighter and the guy1.00
00:09:57.400that was completely, you know what I mean? They give that discrepancy of a comparison in order
00:10:03.660to say this completely, you know, out of her depths kind of individual is now gaining access
00:10:09.700to this job which is never the case but i also like to talk to people about visual diversity
00:10:16.980we're real good at that right you we're we're getting real good especially i mean you're in
00:10:22.180the united states i'm in canada but we're real good at the poster i think we're getting really
00:10:26.420good at the poster right this is my company please notice i have a person of this skin tone a person
00:10:33.220who is able-bodied disabled like you know differently able i have all of this look at how
00:10:38.580diverse i am meanwhile when you sit at the table or in the room or you're performing the task
00:10:46.740all of those people that have brought difference to the table have only learned i get to be i get
00:10:52.500to look different here if if i bring the same ideas to the table as everybody else right how
00:21:08.060And I think that's almost what makes the argument
00:21:11.540of like against affirmative action or against anything of inclusivity. Like we want people
00:21:16.260who are qualified for the job. If you did, you would care more about getting these people in
00:21:23.440and treating them appropriately to see if they are more qualified for the job than assuming that
00:21:29.220they aren't and barring them off. And as we see through legislation, through rules throughout
00:21:34.360history, barring people off has always been the goal. Right. Yeah. And I think we forget,
00:21:40.860even for those very physical jobs because every time we talk about affirmative action our minds
00:21:45.140and i just did it myself we immediately you know run to the the physical jobs in which we think
00:21:50.760men are stronger women are weaker therefore men should have priority but when we think about those
00:21:55.260jobs and we think about forget the physicality the mental stability and endurance that that job1.00
00:22:06.660really takes you know like when we really get into policing right we were and obviously we're
00:22:13.240talking about defunding the police and complete restructuring of the way we train a good chunk
00:22:19.100of that is because we've trained these young men and women to be militant to be to be soldiers it's
00:22:25.540the same structure but but soldiers don't work on protecting and serving soldiers work on killing
00:22:33.300and destroying that's there those are two very different goals and to go to a job every day
00:22:39.160that's scary let's let's all admit that being a police officer wouldn't be enjoyable it wouldn't
00:22:43.880be fancy free you need to have a tight mind right to me that's like way up here on the expectation
00:22:54.040rather than just writing that one psychological test so we know you're not ted bundy maybe
00:22:59.000maybe that you know what i mean i can train somebody how to lift weights and get bigger
00:23:06.520and get thicker can i train somebody to be more emotionally sound and balanced or are there
00:23:13.400certain people that are just better at that i don't mean i don't know i'm not a psychiatrist
00:23:17.800yeah i also think the mental thing tends to play a role more often than than the physical every
00:23:23.720single like horror story I've ever heard about interactions with law enforcement have been
00:23:29.460police not keeping it cool not keeping their calm not being able to diffuse situations and I never
00:23:36.460want to take away from the difficulty or you know any respect from police officers who are deserving
00:23:45.360and who do go out and do this difficult job it would be absolutely terrifying someone can pull0.98
00:23:50.160a gun on you in less than five seconds and shoot and kill you. And it's very understandable for
00:23:55.260that to be, for that to impact you. There's nothing to take away from that. But it is a
00:24:00.840conversation of, this is a specific role with those specific risks. We need people in there
00:24:08.160who can handle it on the mentally, physically, yes, but of course, mentally. And I feel like
00:24:14.880it's it's the fact that it's a difficult job or an unsafe job is used as a crutch a lot when
00:24:20.280police officers do something wrong and it's like I don't give that same crutch to a doctor or to a
00:24:26.700surgeon or to anybody else these are positions that have high stress level a high criteria of
00:24:33.920or high metrics that need to be met and you need to be able to do that that's you know that's the
00:24:40.000job you're signing up for so and I think the bigger I mean and then we're going to talk about
00:24:44.520structural problems because I think the bigger problem is the way we train, the way we admit
00:24:48.880people and not just train to get in, right? But throughout your 25 year long career, what do we
00:24:56.940do? Because, you know, again, I've known police officers, especially that work, I live in the
00:25:02.160suburb, right? And a lot of what they deal with are pretty horrific domestic abuse situations.
00:25:07.480That's pretty much what they walk into a lot, right? So to deal with that kind of, you know,
00:25:13.800or anything involving kids and to deal with that it's not even happening to you but every single
00:25:18.600day you see the worst of what people have to offer the worst that is your job your job is to walk
00:25:24.760into house a and see what a horrible situation that is and how many people are getting hurt and
00:25:29.480whatever and then you're supposed to what go home and watch friends right you're supposed to shrug
00:25:35.480it off that's a level of insanity to expect that right yeah you know and so i think that part needs
00:25:44.600to change but that goes to i think because when i talk about sexism a lot of people are like you0.87
00:25:50.900know oh joanne well first of all you're gay you obviously hate men no why would i hate men i don't0.95
00:25:55.460have to sleep with them like they're great i don't have to pick up their underwear like guys in my0.99
00:26:00.660life are great. I don't have any problems. And it's not necessarily the men, it's the
00:26:07.440prioritization of characteristics that we're all losing out from, right? It's the prioritization
00:26:16.120of rationality and, you know, a lack of emotion and being able to be focused. And I'm like,
00:26:24.720what we're doing there is where we are prioritizing, um, A, the wrong characteristics
00:26:31.100and B, excluding things that A, make us human and B, allow us to change, allow us to feel,
00:26:42.520allow us, right? And these guys, and it's still predominantly men on a police force,
00:26:47.100they don't have that room. You know, everybody will say, oh, they should go see a therapist.
00:26:51.340no they're not oh hon nobody's going nobody's unless you're ordered to do so because otherwise
00:26:57.860you're weak you're breaking you're and i think if you don't need to see a therapist you're on
00:27:04.520a dexter level and now i'm nervous you either should be seeing it once a week or you've shut
00:27:11.460it off altogether because of what you've seen and now i'm you know now i'm more nervous
00:27:18.000mm-hmm um and i think that works men it does absolutely you know i was talking about this
00:27:25.400the other day actually with one of my friends and i was saying how a lot of the conversations around
00:27:30.180patriarchy if you will or systemic anything that has to do with how we treat men versus women how
00:27:36.400we raise men versus women has a really aggressive impact on men and the conversation is often about
00:27:41.700how it impacts women through how men treat women but i think we do leave out a good percentage of
00:27:47.380the mental anguish men must be going through to not be able to express half of their range of
00:27:53.500emotions because it is, it has such a negative connotation. And there's also, I don't think
00:28:00.900people talk enough about discernment in those scenarios either. There's such a lack of nuance
00:28:05.820and balance because I will say to a certain extent, you know, being able to keep yourself
00:28:11.200composed or stoic in certain scenarios is beneficial for everyone. If you're going to
00:28:17.180have a mental breakdown over a popped tire, it's going to be a difficult life for you.
00:28:22.200But it goes into the unhealthy territory when you no longer can access those emotions that you
00:28:27.980should be able to. When you no longer can discern if you should be feeling empathy or naturally
00:28:33.760are having empathy, we have a problem. If you no longer can express how you're feeling and have
00:28:39.200just suppressed it have have a habit of suppressing it can't access it we have a problem because
00:28:43.720whatever you suppress comes forward in aggressive and ugly ways that you won't be able to control
00:28:48.500and so i think where i where i hear a lot of young men especially confused is like
00:28:54.200talking about that balance what emotions do i express when do i express them i don't want to
00:28:59.900be seen a certain way if i express this and it's like one i hate that that's i hate that that's
00:29:05.500what you're thinking i hate that's what you've been taught i hate and and that's for everyone
00:29:08.620you know, women have the same, same, but different, you know, whatever. But I hate that that's how you0.99
00:29:12.860feel and what you've been taught. But it's also like, there should be no expectation for you to
00:29:18.400be in, like, inhumanely stoic. That's not the expectation we should be setting for you.
00:29:23.600There should be a balance there, the ability to say, okay, I can handle this, I'm going to stay
00:29:27.640calm. But your emotions are still valid, and you should still be taught and allowed and welcome to
00:29:33.480express them. And it's, there's a couple of points and those are all amazing points because I think
00:29:39.020that number one, we don't, we don't teach that. So we don't, we don't encourage that. We don't
00:29:45.840train that. It's 2022. I've been a teacher for a long time and I haven't seen a lot of trans,
00:29:54.300like a lot of change in that capacity. I truly haven't. I've seen our young women get a lot
00:30:01.780bigger of a range of what we are allowed to do and express ourselves as and dress as don't get
00:30:08.420me wrong there's limits and and of course but again here's the inherent part a lot of people
00:30:14.640think oh joanna you know because i was my uncle said oh in his house there's blue jobs and pink0.98
00:30:19.480jobs i said you're a moron what are you talking about well there's jobs i do and there's jobs0.95
00:30:24.840linda does and he goes and we just joke they're pink and blue jobs and i said and it's just a1.00
00:30:29.220division of labor. And it's never been the division of labor that's a problem ever. Because
00:30:33.820like, I have a fiance, we have a division of labor, like she does certain things, I do certain0.93
00:30:38.440things. The division of labor is not the problem. The problem and the inherent sexism has always0.69
00:30:44.460been the prioritization of what labor is more important, what labor has higher value. And I
00:30:52.080think with men you know when we don't give them that full picture and we allow women the latitude
00:30:59.200we're allowing women latitude not because we like women better but because when we become a little
00:31:03.600bit more masculine not maybe my masculine because there's there's limits and they're like when you
00:31:10.480cut your hair you cut my hair too far but because we're getting better that's the underlying
00:31:18.320assumption. When women become more masculine in some degree, right? Look, she's more rational.1.00
00:31:25.340She's less emotional. She wants to be a doctor. That's amazing. You know, we're taking steps up0.74
00:31:32.160the ladder. Whereas when a man wants to be a nurse, like nurses in Ontario, just so you don't0.57
00:31:37.840make a hundred grand a year. It is a great, right? For all those people wanting to be nurses. It is
00:31:43.340a great it's a hard job and god knows during covid um but it is a an amazing job with great
00:31:50.380benefits and great security and all of that kind of stuff but meanwhile still to this day any guy
00:31:55.300that chooses to be a nurse the first question people ask him whether it's outward or not is0.98
00:31:59.980are you gay are you gay and why didn't you be a dog why aren't you a doctor right you gotta0.97
00:32:07.560to you just you only could be a nurse isn't that a girl's job there it is so we have these limits1.00
00:32:16.600on guys and then we turn around in the same breath and say this damn patriarchy you know0.99
00:32:24.920what i mean why can't men be better cognitive dissonance is a0.98
00:32:29.400it's a powerful thing it's a powerful thing there's also such an interesting um because
00:32:39.140people i've brought up the whole conversation about why like certain um the division of labor
00:32:44.540like in households before people have argued with me about it and i'm like look at what happens when
00:32:48.940men and women get divorced and how men categorize who brings the most to the table the same men who
00:32:55.200have stay-at-home wives or girlfriends that are doing the pink jobs, I guess, will be like,0.86
00:33:06.140she doesn't deserve anything. I'm the one who went out and made the money. I'm the one who did this.1.00
00:33:09.920I'm the one who did that. As if raising a family, keeping a home, cooking meals, et cetera,
00:33:15.040are less on the totem pole than working a nine to five. It's such a skewed perspective.
00:33:21.540Well, I think that's the intersectionality of capitalism, and I know you're a strong
00:33:26.900capitalist and all, but when we give somebody a value on the job they do, they get a level
00:33:38.160of respect, and that value then, when women or men for that matter, because let's be honest,
00:33:45.360men that are stay-at-home husbands take some pretty good jobs as well, but when we have
00:33:50.980no number value associated with the stay-at-home labor, it can't have any respect. And it sure as
00:33:59.240hell has no power, right? It can't have power because you don't have a bank account with your
00:34:04.660money and your, you know, and I love when everybody says, yeah, but when you're married,
00:34:08.700half's yours. I'm like, yeah, but that's not how it plays out. If you really believe that,
00:34:13.500then whoever goes out and gets the job, they come home and they quickly transfer as a payment,
00:34:19.72050% of their paycheck every time to their partner's bank account. And then let's play it like
00:34:25.600that. Then you all can fight over how much you spend on the couch and there's no upper hand,
00:34:31.720right? Yeah, exactly. Whatever it is you're going to fight over. Exactly. But I think all of this
00:34:37.760requires conversation that start with some really embarrassing truths. I think, and this is the hard
00:34:47.200one I think for people to swallow I think before anybody can move anywhere on any of this you have
00:34:53.220to admit your prejudice your biases and your stereotypes and I don't think anybody it's like
00:35:01.660we are terrified to put it on the table because it's embarrassing because we know we're not
00:35:07.400supposed to have them yeah but if we don't put them on the table and we don't all acknowledge
00:35:13.120how are we supposed to get around it that's the thing right then it has to be
00:35:21.200people people have to feel i guess safe enough to do that it has to be a productive conversation
00:35:28.640and we're so in the opposite space right now so so much so we can't and we're going to get
00:35:35.440around to censorship because i think that's something it goes it's right into this right
00:35:39.440we're trying to have these amazing conversations but at every step people are you know it's and
00:35:49.760again i don't i don't want to disavow issues of canceling certain things or undermining certain
00:35:55.360things i think there's things that are dangerous that we can talk through but these extremities
00:36:00.720that we put ourselves in where you're either you know with trump or you're a communist like
00:36:07.680Like, quite literally, those are your two options, you know?
00:36:12.800I wish, too, before we had conversations like this, people would understand that there are more good people who either live a different life than you, don't understand something, or just have a different perspective than people who are evil and hateful.
00:36:35.760And I think something that frustrates me is you have groups of people that are just in the middle, trying to navigate the regular life, learning new things each day, picking different opinions based on the new information that's presented to them that get lumped into these polarized categories and immediately attacked when they do try to have conversations, when they do try to admit their biases, when they do come forward.
00:37:00.740And if that's how, you know, things go, I'm not surprised that nobody wants to ever be
00:37:06.860honest about anything because why would you?
00:37:26.680And then you see things that are happening right now, which again, goes directly against what you and I are talking about, which is censorship of everything. Right? Now you said at the beginning, and here's going to be the $10,000 question.
00:37:41.220Oh no. What's the, so, so we're going to say, we're going to both, I think you and I are both
00:37:50.740on the side of censorship is bad in the general picture, you know? And I, we, we talked before
00:37:57.380and I made a joke of like the old school Jerry Springer shows where the KKK would come out and
00:38:02.560rip off their mask. I'm like, let them be on TV. Cause they look stupid and when people see that
00:38:08.320kind of stupid and see they're good let it all be out there right because if you don't if you don't1.00
00:38:14.400talk about it they still exist they just exist in the dark personally which yeah where things get1.00
00:38:21.420worse oh where things get so worse but we have to have rational limits and and what
00:38:28.300what are those lines and who get to set them
00:38:33.260who gets to set them i think depends on if you're talking about if we're talking about
00:38:39.660censorship from a government perspective or censorship let's start there let's start at the
00:38:45.820government we'll get to spotify and joe rogan and all of that kind of that situation because let's
00:38:51.340start at the government because at the end of the day when people complain about their first
00:38:54.540amendment rights p.s you're just and i would love canadians stop complaining about that because we
00:38:59.320don't have first amendment rights. So that number one, that would be awesome. We have freedom of
00:39:05.220speech. They're just not called USA. We have freedom of speech. It's just in the charter of
00:39:12.860rights and freedoms. It just reads differently. That's all I'm saying. You all have a bill of
00:39:17.260rights. We have the charter. We don't say first amendment, but nonetheless, freedom of speech.
00:39:22.100We all have, and we, you and I both want as much freedom of speech as we possibly can.
00:39:28.140And when I say I want my rights protected, it's not from Spotify. That's not who's protecting or intruding on my freedom. It's not you when you tell me to shut up. It's not my mom when she tells me to cut it out. Freedom of speech is not being curtailed there in a constitutional way. That's only the government.
00:39:47.840So let's also assume the government gets to lead this.
00:47:45.020Because I'm sure, and James Keechstra, FYI, was fired,
00:47:49.840and he tried to sue, and it wasn't a breach of his rights,
00:47:53.760because what they said was, his, and here is the key,
00:47:58.500that was an element of hate speech in the sense that creating a false narrative
00:48:05.700that would create not directly he wasn't saying go out and kill anybody but he was creating a
00:48:13.460false narrative that would then justify a level of anti-semitism so that might be the lane but then
00:48:22.520now we're in covid right who gets to create a false narrative and what does it look like
00:48:28.480in order to put people's lives at risk
00:48:31.780when when is that hate speech oh people are so annoying
00:48:38.160and that's the bottom line true because it's just like it's one of those things that makes
00:48:47.980you go i wish we could just err on the sense of like i wish we could just err on the side of
00:48:51.000common sense. That's the least descriptive, the least binding, the least black and white thing
00:48:56.420you could say. Absolutely. Because then we start mucking around with terminology, right? You have
00:49:02.280all those morons in North Carolina that are saying, we're not Nazis. We're freedom fighters1.00
00:49:07.960with the swastika on their shoulder, right? They've just changed the vernacular. They've just changed
00:49:14.200the name now what do we do when they're walking around with those see i think that to me that
00:49:21.320flag should be illegal period but here's the irony hitler stole it yeah right it's a hindu symbol
00:49:29.640of luck god the hindus must be real real upset you're gonna be furious what is this lovely symbol
00:49:36.840of i had kids so we have a hindu temple not too far from my school and one day i had like six kids0.98
00:49:41.960come running out for lunch, losing their minds saying, Joanna, they have, you have to come down.
00:49:48.440They have, they have desecrated. I don't even know if they use that word, the side of the Hindu1.00
00:49:52.620temple. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's just horrible. Come look, come look. I had
00:49:56.620to get up. I had to go down and I looked at the side and there it was, you know, a swastika. But
00:50:02.760you know, for those who don't know, Hitler just took the symbol and turned it counter,0.58
00:50:07.940sort of turned it clockwise to the right so if you could imagine it just straight
00:50:12.420that's the hindu symbol for luck yeah and so i had to have a conversation with my kids i'm like oh
00:50:17.300guys look not only was hitler crazy he stole everything either from italy or from the hindus
00:50:23.220or whatever and that's what it was but a symbol then what do we do do we ban the symbol no
00:50:30.900No. And I feel like that's, I guess, where I have to be more particular, just very aware of my
00:50:40.740subjective opinion versus the objective, because I do tend to favor the free speech act, the free
00:50:47.240speech aspect, if I could speak. Because again, it's like, then we have to have the conversation
00:50:54.500of who gets to pick what's okay to ban and what's not okay to ban. Once we ban this,
00:50:59.300where does it stop where does it start and I have I think I've seen swastika imagery like in real0.89
00:51:08.020life twice and it was the most like yeah right I was leaving my apartment condo once there was a
00:51:15.000woman who had one tattooed on the back of her neck and I was like it was huge it was huge and I'm
00:51:21.260just like I'm pretty sure I took a picture it was the most strange thing I've ever seen and then
00:51:27.440there was a time when I was I think probably eight nine or ten out to eat with my family and there0.64
00:51:31.620was a guy in full Nazi garb like as if he had purchased it some I don't know and it was like
00:51:37.780the most jarring thing the most jarring thing I've ever seen but to a certain extent again I
00:51:44.220still feel like it's all rooted in these in these conversations in in educating people in having
00:51:51.580conversations with people about why they believe what they believe what they've experienced to
00:51:54.660them think this way like because i also i also feel like there's got to be so many people who
00:52:00.980have such distasteful or aggressive beliefs that are just bound to them because that's where they
00:52:06.900come from or what they've always been around and there's got to be some way to break that
00:52:14.580to the grade one teacher who is allowed to teach that the holocaust never happened or the grade
00:52:21.460one by the way like so i just i don't know if you've heard about indiana and oklahoma they're
00:52:26.260passing these different laws or they're trying to pass these different laws i think oklahoma
00:52:30.900one of theirs is the religious protection act and it basically stipulates this a teacher
00:52:38.980cannot teach a student anything that conflates or that contradicts their deeply held religious
00:52:44.900beliefs. And if a teacher does, I know. Huh? What do you think school is for? Look, you got to see
00:52:52.860my last TikTok. I almost had a talk about all upset. I had to read it first of all, because
00:52:57.480it was so many things. I was in the car. We did look at your last TikTok and I said the same
00:53:01.680thing when I was in the car. I was like, what do people think school is for? Are we going to
00:53:05.700color rainbows every day from kindergarten to graduation? What are we doing? There it is.
00:53:11.320So if we allow for censorship, but it's so hard because if I say no censorship, then I can't stop those same schools from sitting kids down and, let's say, I don't always mean to slam on Christianity because it's not about that, but have a narrow-minded, if you do A, B, and C, you're going to hell.
00:53:33.960If you do this, you're going to heaven.
00:53:40.980these lessons are all about making sure kids can't identify, you know, with the gender that0.76
00:53:47.540they are kids, kids can't come out as he I mean, it's all about it really is a pendulum swing
00:53:52.680against that. But if I don't censor, like I don't want to censor because I don't want books being
00:53:58.380burned like these yahoos in Tennessee. I don't want people excluding LGBTQ. I don't want people1.00
00:54:04.660excluding CRT. I don't want, I don't want any of that. But if I say there is, because I'm still
00:54:12.460trying to protect kids from somebody sitting them down and saying the Holocaust never happened and,
00:54:19.240you know, whatever, they're like, whatever kind of bigotry they want to teach.
00:54:25.700I just hate that. I hate that. It's, I don't feel like the blockage of allowing everything
00:54:34.140is the equivalent to censorship i don't feel like having okay like a specific
00:54:41.260curriculum that can be pushed back against or amended or whatever the case may be saying this
00:54:48.960is our school curriculum the holocaust happened you were not allowed to you know veer outside of
00:54:54.620that i don't feel like that's censorship i feel like that's having like you know what i mean it
00:55:00.880It just, it doesn't seem like, and maybe that's just a semantic thing or it's genuinely just a feeling, but there's a difference there.
00:55:07.480I'm not, I'm, the school is not telling you that you as a citizen can't have those beliefs or go out and spout those beliefs on the side of the street.
00:55:15.000But you in our, in our private or public institution where we have rules and a curriculum that is based, hopefully, on factual information, cannot just freestyle with inaccurate information.
00:55:28.340I don't feel like that's the same as censorship, is it?
00:55:30.880100%. But I guess what I always worry about in school, and obviously, anyway, and I say to my
00:55:38.780kids all the time, I'm very rarely scared of hearing bias. Because you know what, my kids are
00:55:46.780smart. Kids are smart. They're going to fact check your butt until the cows come home. Want to know
00:55:52.060why? Because the internet's in their pocket. So go ahead and try to say something like that.
00:55:56.840here's what I'm deathly afraid of. I'm afraid of what we omit altogether. I'm afraid of what we
00:56:03.580don't even know we're supposed to know, right? And we can't fact check something that hasn't
00:56:09.780even been a part of the curriculum. So just like looking at Canada, when I was a kid,
00:56:16.340it wasn't even a conversation. I had no idea. That was purposefully omitted.
00:56:22.740so when you purposefully omit things then it is a it that level of censorship is there
00:56:31.460yeah i'll give you an example when you talk about the vietnam war how's that go
00:56:35.960just out of curiosity i don't think i remember i'm just thinking it goes a little different
00:56:43.220than it goes up here probably i know you guys are you guys are full of it we talk about the
00:56:50.960of 1812 because we came down and caused some havoc you guys don't talk about that
00:56:55.520i mean look if you guys if you guys need your claim to fame on
00:57:02.560next to our resume i guess you can have it but yeah i know it's it's a whole
00:57:10.000it's it is it's a whole conversation it's a whole i first of all the omission aspect absolutely
00:57:14.480my my when i was watching your video my first take it was one what do people think they're
00:57:18.880they're going to school for to be like coddled the whole day but to teach everything objectively
00:57:24.000teach everything that's the point or everything that fits it isn't to pick and choose what we
00:57:29.640want to talk about that occurred it's just yeah i i'm when it comes to people just denying
00:57:38.500events or denying things or being you know not telling the truth then it's like why would the
00:57:45.540school want that to be there I just feel like that's a different category than your free speech
00:57:50.560aspect but it's but is it but I don't know if it is like okay so I think of let's say Colin
00:57:57.820Kaepernick Kaepernick taking a knee taking a knee the big huge horrible thing he did right
00:58:02.720and I think about that and I think about the way that people spoke about that and how much of the
00:58:07.580history was left out which I didn't even know until wait because I chose to as an adult immerse
00:58:13.880myself in that dialogue about how football games, football players didn't even come out and stand up
00:58:21.220for the national anthem until a certain part in your history, because it was a show of patriotism
00:58:26.440in order to support what was going on after 9-11. I'm just like, oh, I didn't know. But it's so easy
00:58:33.320to omit that, right? It's so easy to talk about. And in a course like mine, I guess it's difficult
00:58:41.760because a lot of people talk to me on, you know, TikToks or whatever, like, do you teach communism
00:58:46.180up there? I'm like, yeah, I teach all economic theories. Yes, I teach communism, capitalism,
00:58:51.520democratic socialism. I teach political theories from, you know, all different. I teach about
00:58:57.400Marxism. I teach about, you know, conservatism, liberalism. I teach them all. I think it's also
00:59:03.180a lot of people who don't remember what being in school was like, like what actually going to
00:59:07.300because in my experience the omission was really the only issue it was not things being taught
00:59:14.980incorrectly it was things just not being talked about but but there is just yeah but there is just
00:59:21.540so horrifically powerful the things that aren't being talked about because the things that aren't
00:59:26.900being talked about are the things we're shameful of we're embarrassed by and we just and we just
00:59:32.740want to admit and that and that's true of every single country i have lots of kids from different
00:59:36.500parts of the world to come to my school and they'll say oh we don't talk about that oh yeah
00:59:42.180but they trust their government i said you shouldn't then i'm sure i'm sure each country
00:59:48.380could you could tell them to teach about the same war and each each answer would be completely
00:59:54.240different a hundred different ways and i don't know how to you know people are like well joanna
00:59:59.320when you teach are you completely objective and i always say absolutely not how nobody walking
01:00:06.080this planet is completely objective in anything they do if you want me to get up there and say
01:00:12.160world war one started in 1914 and ended in 1918 here are the teams here's what happened here's
01:00:19.600the end result they wrote the treaty of a side please move on i've done nothing nobody cares
01:00:28.800and it doesn't have any relevance right that's like like you you it's the interpretation it's
01:00:37.720the what if it's the how does this affect us today and all of those questions are subjective
01:00:42.860every single one right but for me to stand up and this is what drives me mental about any teacher0.98
01:00:49.460or anybody in general say i'm 100 objective i'm like you're 100 full of crap there's you can't be0.58
01:00:55.180I think, again, we go back to admitting our bias, our position, where we come from, where we got our education from.0.73
01:01:07.120I don't think a lot of people know the difference between that or subjectivity and objectivity or how much of a role it plays in your perspective.
01:01:18.700Like, I don't think people really understand that.
01:01:23.600And I don't know how to, you know, and again, trying to get at this without making and then we have a whole other world of problems because we have this beautiful thing called the Internet, which is so incredibly powerful and destructive all at the same time, because it's like now I can I can talk to somebody who lives in Zimbabwe and their grandmother can tell me about colonization.
01:01:49.600and that story will be better than any book I ever read but instead I spend all of my time
01:01:57.120and I know you and I are going to make a laugh on TikTok those are choices we make right or I can go
01:02:03.940on the internet and find out how aliens created COVID so that JFK could come back to life it's
01:02:09.320really a hard one it's it's very there's a lot of trickiness right yeah um so that's why education
01:02:17.920to me and i know i'm a teacher but education to me is so much more important today than ever before
01:02:27.760because we have all of this insanity but how do we mitigate the negative how do we
01:02:36.880no i completely i completely agree i think one of the biggest things is this
01:02:41.200comes down to arming people to be able to be you know media literate um to be able to sift through
01:02:49.920information to actually look for information that isn't just confirmation bias that's what we look
01:02:56.480for to have those to have those conversations yeah it's and sorry can you explain just for
01:03:04.240every listening what confirmation bias is or what an echo chamber is just in case people don't get
01:03:08.880get the terminology? Seeking out information that confirms what you already believe or what
01:03:13.200you want to believe. It's the equivalent of typing into Google or believing that elephants paint the
01:03:21.860treetops at night and then typing into Google, why don't I see the elephants at night who paint
01:03:26.040the treetops? When do the elephants come out? Things that are going to confirm that as opposed
01:03:32.080to being like, what happens at night to the treetops? But I don't know. I think when you
01:03:43.240start to talk about the confirmation bias and talk about why people believe what they believe and
01:03:47.880think what they think, you open a door of just so many different reasons why people exist the way
01:03:54.040they do, what type of things they're seeking out and why they're seeking those things. Because it's
01:03:59.020not just as simple, if it was just as simple of like, I want to know the truth and I want to live
01:04:03.760my life with the truth, et cetera, the truth, we'd be able to solve this literally in this,
01:04:10.700in this podcast. But there are definitely groups of people that exist that are happy existing in
01:04:16.160whatever fantasies they create for themselves. Yeah. It begs the question of why, why is this
01:04:23.320the answer that you need? Why is this the circumstance that you want?
01:04:26.580That's a great question. Makes us feel good.
01:04:29.020right everybody it's not just the internet we seek out confirmation bias it's every place we
01:04:33.500step to right our family if it's if it confirms who we are and they love us great we're there if
01:04:39.340not you're toxic i'm out our friends that we choose right and i don't mean to undervalue
01:04:45.020families that are toxic but you get my application here our friends that we choose we don't surround
01:04:50.220ourselves with people that are going to sit down and intelligently and directly oppose us every day