00:01:53.180are you ready is the united states today or ever a meritocrity
00:02:02.220should we define that for our people listening maybe let me define that real quick the notion that
00:02:08.700the best rises to the top that the work you put in that your skill level that your work ethic that
00:02:16.220your intelligence that your drive all of those factors build into a culminating reality that in
00:02:22.380the united states of america is going to put you on the top of the pile make you the most money
00:02:27.260get you the prettiest wife and the hottest husband and make you live a super fantastic life where you
00:02:32.620get to do those christmas cards in front of the ginormous tree is the united states that i feel
00:02:39.660like it's more complex than a yes or no question and the reason i preface with that is because
00:02:43.820you will never have all of anything even if we are or were or can be or will be a meritocracy
00:02:52.700meritocracy meritocracy right did i say it wrong in the beginning i love that okay go ahead
00:02:58.540meritocracy i think it's my talk to you that's why i haven't risen to the top go ahead yeah
00:03:05.340there will always be room for nepotism there will always be room for bribery for cheating
00:03:12.780for anything under the sun because we're dealing with human beings but i don't disagree with the
00:03:18.940fact that working hard will never betray you attempting to be the best will never betray you
00:03:24.220i think there's a big discrepancy or maybe more things that can be defined when it comes to
00:03:29.660people's definition of working hard though because i think to a certain extent pulling yourself up by
00:03:36.460the bootstraps or working hard people equate to working really hard at the one job that they have
00:03:42.620the same thing over and over again and that's not how i would interpret it because that doesn't lead
00:03:46.620to success working hard or pulling yourself up by your bootstraps if we're going to say those are
00:03:50.780synonymous which i guess they kind of would be to me isn't working hard every day at being the best
00:03:56.940i don't know cleaner being the best at stocking shelves it's continuously making decisions and
00:04:02.620taking steps that are going to elevate your lifestyle so if you do have a job where you're
00:04:06.700a cashier yes you show up and you do the best that you possibly can at that job and possibly
00:04:11.420hope to work your way up the ladder in that role, but you're also working your hardest outside of
00:04:16.520that to step into a better job or more impressive position to climb the ladder in general of what
00:04:21.440you're doing. That's how I started that. Okay. I'm going to separate a couple of things. We're
00:04:26.480going to put nepotism and money over here for a second, because those are obvious, right? Like,
00:04:33.140and let's be very, very clear. Those things exist in every distinct avenue of every single
00:04:40.940job every educational facility everything those over here not to cut you off the reason why i
00:04:48.920don't necessarily harp on that and i don't care about the nepotism conversation especially in
00:04:52.780the context of industries that don't matter it's because it's not going to go away there's nothing
00:04:57.520you could do to go sorry which industries don't matter denisha carter when i use this the phrase
00:05:03.540don't matter being the next person on a magazine being the next famous singer is not the same as
00:05:10.020being a judge that upholds the law. It's not the same as the merit of being a police officer. It's
00:05:15.120not the same as getting in as a plastic surgeon, not plastic surgeon, as a surgeon. Those are
00:05:20.340industries, there are plenty of industries where people should be incredibly concerned about
00:05:24.120nepotism. When it comes to the entertainment industry, does it suck? Yes. Is it not fair?0.97
00:05:29.680Absolutely. But at the end of the day, you not getting to be a professional singer is not
00:05:34.120something the rest of the world should have a bleeding heart for. Okay. I feel like that's a
00:05:39.640other podcast i feel like we're going to go off on this road down this path not that i'm equating
00:05:45.320and i could keep going not that i'm equating a brain surgeon and and you know justin bieber i
00:05:54.120am not putting them on the same level having said that having said that culture and the arts
00:06:02.280if we are to take them as seriously as they should be taken because when we look past in history
00:06:07.640our literature our music our fine arts define us and really blaze a path and they are revolutionary
00:06:16.900so to say that nepotism isn't as important in that industry i get a little i get a little leery
00:06:25.160about that because if art is revolutionary which i think it is indeed agree we are filling it through
00:06:31.860with people that are being gatekept and funneling it into that, then I might say, well, maybe they
00:06:40.460are as important as the surgeon and the politician and the educator, because they're doing something
00:06:47.280different in that society that is necessary and powerful and might lead to another thing.
00:06:53.560I don't disagree that they're important in that context. Art is incredibly important,
00:06:57.960generally speaking, and it is revolutionary. I'm not trying to downplay the industry that
00:07:01.640the scale or the cultural impact in that capacity. But what I'm saying is you are not being stopped
00:07:09.080from making art because I don't cast you in my movie because I pick my daughter.
00:07:14.600You can still create your own film. You can still paint, draw, sing, et cetera, et cetera.
00:07:19.760There is not a danger that is imposed on society because you didn't get a part in a show because
00:07:25.580it lent to somebody else who's famous if i were to make you a judge or give you some sort of
00:07:31.580position of power over somebody else because i know you and you aren't necessarily qualified
00:07:36.460we are then in a different avenue because you can cause people specific harm i love this conversation
00:07:41.580so much i feel like we're not going to talk about what we're going to talk about do you do we want
00:07:45.740to schedule a different podcast for this one i don't know i say we just roll with it and we do
00:07:49.900part two if we need to do part two it is what it is i know we have hard outs today but we'll just
00:07:54.460do a part two that's fine and i want to make this very clear because things i say get misconstrued
00:07:59.660sometimes not on here we're talking a long format nobody's taking you a three minute out of context
00:08:06.460you know what i mean to be very clear nepotism is unfair i am not i'm not negating that in any
00:08:12.780capacity and i also think it sucks when it comes to the arts and i also think it's responsible for
00:08:16.780why we have so many people who are not talented that are plaguing the music industry and industries
00:08:20.540alike to this day i also agree that art is important fundamental revolutionary etc i agree
00:08:27.500with all of those things i just don't think i would pick the nepotism fight against the
00:08:34.380entertainment industry outside of pointing out that it's unfair because it's it doesn't seem as
00:08:40.140important in that avenue because of the impact that doesn't exist can i say what about the
00:08:46.700nepotism and i mean we're sitting in a very you know 2022 is a very specific time period but what
00:08:53.180about the nepotism of let's just choose hollywood we'll keep singing out of it for a second just
00:08:59.500because they're two different industries but what about the nepotism that's involved in that industry0.51
00:09:04.540that keeps out people of color that keeps out women in powerful positions that keeps out gay
00:09:11.420and lesbian actors and actresses that keeps out non-binary people. What about the nepotism0.70
00:09:17.320that goes along with that sort of ideological thinking that in a way perpetuates the stereotypical
00:09:27.400and discriminatory foundations of everybody's country, not just the United States,
00:09:33.800of everybody's country, because it allows it to continue, right? Listen, if we were allowed to
00:09:38.860a tv show up here of any value i'd say the same thing well now we're conflating things that aren't
00:09:45.180necessarily mutually exclusive right because nepotism could also give somebody's lesbian1.00
00:09:49.420daughter a job the nepotism isn't the inherent problem that's creating those racial divides or
00:09:55.580divides based on sex creed etc etc etc that can be a byproduct absolutely and that i of course
00:10:02.060would be staunchly against as i am also still against neptism in the entertainment industry
00:10:06.060but i feel like the argument there would be discrimination not necessarily nepotism because
00:10:11.180nepotism isn't by default a discrimination based on those things but let's use me for an example
00:10:16.540because i was talking when i was trying to i was on my own doing a podcast last week and uh i'll
00:10:22.060use me as an example if i were to sit and and most people won't admit this and i think it's
00:10:27.580ridiculous but if i were to be running my own school okay if i was to run my own school and
00:10:33.340And I'm the only person deciding who gets hired, which teachers I hire and whatever.0.80
00:10:39.440I'll be 100% realistic in the sense that people that think more like me, I would be more likely to hire.
00:10:48.600And to think for a second that that doesn't connect to my race, to my socioeconomic status, to my sexuality, to even my gender presentation, right?
00:11:03.340I think, and this is what a lot of people refuse to accept. You know, you'll hear people say they're
00:11:09.600colorblind or whatever bullcrap they're going to say. That's garbage. And let's assume I'm not out1.00
00:11:17.500to be, obviously, any of those discriminatory things. Instead, you'll hear people say garbage0.98
00:11:23.400like I have a good vibe with them. I feel like they'll suit the team. I feel like they're the
00:11:28.560right person for the job. And all of that is coded language to say they think like me. I'm wondering
00:11:35.500if on the set of whatever that can happen too. And when I think about nepotism, nepotism isn't
00:11:42.880just family, it's friends of family as well. I think it's a little bit of a bigger, but the idea
00:11:49.000that i hire people or i am drawn to people who think like me um will make it an easier path
00:12:00.280for me to do what i need to do in my business in my movie in my song whatever it doesn't matter
00:12:06.320and that makes it makes sense to me which is why i always say like my students say joanna why don't
00:12:12.420you want to do all the hiring guys could because i won't be good at it alone i think i have a great
00:12:17.400opinion, but you better sit me next to probably at least two other people that don't think like
00:12:23.120me at all. And I promise when we come out of the room, we will, as a, you know, three person
00:12:29.640thought process, we'll come out with the best answer. But we all know casting doesn't work
00:12:34.620like that. We all know most jobs, even though they'll have hiring boards, they don't work like
00:12:40.440that necessarily, irrespective of how they look or any of those things. And so I'm wondering if
00:12:49.000that kind of nepotism, it's not a nepotism. So funny, people talk about nepotism and as it
00:12:54.560relates to race, gender, sex, whatever, I consistently think about it as it relates to
00:13:00.600a thought process, an ideology, a way of thinking that is going to be applied to that industry.
00:13:07.720And to me, that's why there's a distinct difference between physical diversity, those nice little pictures you see everywhere of the campus that's diverse with all of the different people represented, and actual thought diversity, right?
00:13:35.460I still think there is a bit of the conflation of, I guess, causation and correlation, because though all of those things can be a byproduct of nepotism, the issue with the nepotism that people are having and the direct result of the nepotism is people getting the job, not because of merit, but because of their connection to who's hiring.
00:13:56.180and so there we go yeah yeah even if your thought even if that can create let's say you do have a
00:14:03.440director that only wants to work with white people I'm pretty sure like there are plenty of them who
00:14:08.040have said that or done that sure a lot that can be the byproduct because they will pick their white
00:14:14.660daughter etc etc that wouldn't account for general nepotism of directors who don't believe that but
00:14:20.780still hire their family friends etc i think though it can lead to those racial divides or
00:14:28.380divides based on you know those types of things yeah it's not inherent nepotism that's the issue
00:14:36.060with that situation so let's talk about the merit then because this is really interesting when
00:14:41.020people talk about merit in any occupation i'm interested i'm interested because the most
00:14:49.260interesting conversation we can ever have i think is how do we define merit of course how do we know
00:14:57.100even if let's pretend for a minute we're a perfect society we have no bias we we're not
00:15:02.540discriminatory in any fashion we're never allowed to hire family and friends we're only allowed to
00:15:07.020hire perfect whatever we've done to society we've magically sprinkled this right yeah my question is
00:15:12.940is how do you assign merit to somebody before they've done the job in your presence, right?
00:15:21.280So a lot of people would say, okay, well, we start with education. Let's just start there,
00:15:26.380right? And I know there's lots of people in this podcast be like, education sucks. I don't, look,0.99
00:15:31.260I don't know what to tell you, but having a university degree beside your name, actually
00:15:35.380more than one is just how you're putting your skin in the game. It just is what it is.
00:15:40.020So that's number one. But you and I both know, because we've both been in school long enough and in different capacities to understand that, what does the 83 mean? Does that dictate merit?
00:15:52.220I almost think because of the way we determine merit outside of what would be, I guess, specifically point, like you could specifically point to for each job, like you're saying, where you went to school, what you've done before, et cetera, et cetera, your resume, it would come down to the fundamental issue with access to things.
00:16:15.800no well let's start you're gonna you're gonna broaden it to this like where we want to go but
00:16:22.740let's just start flat out with marks where did you go to university again college connecticut
00:16:27.740okay so connecticut for you toronto for me we're applying for the same job
00:16:33.200could possibly figure out what an 85 means in connecticut and what an 85 means in toronto
00:16:42.380who knows who my professors were and your professors who knows if i figured out the
00:16:47.920system who like let again let's put aside the buying like all of the cheating stuff
00:16:52.540i'm just saying well because that happens right wasn't it that yeah yeah you in the states there's1.00
00:16:59.920all of the uh actresses speaking of nepotism that keep paying for their kids to get in schools
00:17:03.700but let's put all of that aside let's just simply talk about how can i fairly compare
00:17:10.460me going to york university or u of t up here which everybody knows and you going to university
00:17:16.060in connecticut it just it's inherently flawed in that first step i guess i don't i get what would
00:17:26.620be the alternative though i suppose i don't see far with attempting to base things on merit and
00:17:32.020weigh a plethora of different things with that right probably more fundamental things yes we
00:17:35.860look at universities on resumes and then it kind of goes down to the access thing getting into an
00:17:40.740excellent university doesn't necessarily mean you're better than someone who couldn't listen
00:17:44.120i can't we can't go that far back because we're really breaking foundations we're we're gonna i
00:17:48.900understand all of that i can't well that's another podcast in of itself talking about access 100
00:17:54.300but also then aren't we weighing more than just what's on the resume what you're able to produce
00:18:00.520what you've been able to do successfully in the positions even if they aren't in my presence let's
00:18:04.800we're straight out of school let's say we're straight we're straight out of school right
00:18:11.120because then what you're also going to is let's say a reference letter right i mean that's that's
00:18:15.920the other thing we can kind of weigh because you and i could both have the same let's say or similar
00:18:21.360extracurricular volunteer blah blah blah all of those things and we can have these beautifully
00:18:27.360crafted reference letters which by the way we all know for the most part aren't necessarily
00:18:33.280reflective at all right we all know who to go to for the right reference letter
00:18:42.960so you know so now what now what are we saying and again i think a lot of this comes down like
00:18:50.400because a lot of people will talk about how people get positions and how people get advanced and
00:18:54.320stuff like that and they'll talk about sort of uh an objective standard in my opinion that doesn't
00:19:01.760exist never exists i don't even know if it ever could exist to be perfectly honest um about how
00:19:08.720to judge somebody's merit like if you and i were both working for gm let's say and you could make
00:19:15.200tires at you know you could make 50 more tires an hour than me cool it's objective we we we've set
00:19:23.840a test we've put it down you can make more tires you get the job or you get the promotion the
00:19:30.000reality is most professions aren't even remotely close to that kind of objective test teaching for
00:19:40.080example right right how in the hell i think about this all the time how in the hell do you rationally
00:19:47.200or objectively judge a good teacher high school teacher let's say with high school because i
00:19:53.200it's incredibly difficult because once you take things off of the paper where we assume that
00:19:57.280you know things are accurate despite the fact that we know that they aren't but you can't do
00:20:00.960about that so you have to take it at face value of who went to a better school who performed better
00:20:05.040at that school who has more experience etc it would come down to field experience if it isn't
00:20:09.440something that's like tires which is something you cool so let's see you and i have been teachers for
00:20:14.800five years each how in the hell besides the reference letter that we all know is you know
00:20:20.240what it is um how do i how do i judge that if somebody sat down and interviewed you and i
00:20:27.280how do they judge who potentially should get the job and i go back to obviously well i could work
00:20:37.200with that they fit the team better and all of that very subjective bull crap yeah or people are like0.67
00:20:44.560well what kind of marks did your kid the kids get well that's bull crap i give all my student a's0.54
00:20:49.280that's how we're going to judge me okay cool they all get a's can i have a raise now is it if they0.91
00:20:55.360like me some of the most loved teachers in the world we all know aren't the hardest teachers in
00:21:01.300the world you're not walking away with right yeah I say all the time the only way you could really
00:21:06.940judge me to be fair is my job as a high school teacher is to teach kids for the most part to
00:21:14.580succeed in the next level I work in an academic institution all of 99% of our kids go to university
00:21:20.840So the way that I could see fairly judging me in some way is how do my students fare at the next level of academia?
00:23:46.920Who's supposed to get the better mark?
00:23:48.440Who's going to do better in the world?
00:23:50.200Who's going to bring more to the world?
00:23:52.300I mean, I guess it would then depend on
00:23:54.280what if I don't want someone who can give me a better answer in 90 minutes I want someone who
00:23:58.320can do it in 60 why would you ever and this is a great question why would you ever want somebody
00:24:02.560to do it in 60 speed efficiency but what for so so what do we we want efficiency over superiority
00:24:10.140of content is that I don't want that at all I'm just saying is that where we are I feel like
00:24:16.580that's where we are. I think that might be a flaw of where we are, right? Because somebody
00:24:26.120compared it to a doctor and they said, listen, a surgeon needs to do the surgery in X amount of
00:24:30.880time if they can't do it in X amount of time. And I don't think a test in surgery is necessarily
00:24:35.320the, but, but they, they should be able to perform that surgery in time, in that time,
00:24:42.280because it provides less, fewer complications. And I said, okay, but what if a surgeon takes an
00:24:48.180extra 10 minutes with the same surgery, but because of that extra 10 minutes has fewer
00:24:52.800complications because they were able to see problems that that surgeon doing it at a quick
00:24:57.320speed wasn't able to, wasn't able to find. Right. I mean, there's so many different patterns.
00:25:04.460There's a million different ways you could take it. And I, I also think to a certain extent though,
00:25:10.560it leaves out the percentage of people who are good and fast there are people who successfully
00:25:19.360meet that standard yeah so it then kind of becomes a conversation for advocating for those who do not
00:25:26.160and the them not meeting that standard causes us harm i guess in the long run because we're missing
00:25:32.880out on the better product or better output they could have given us had we given them more time
00:25:38.000i'm a little worried about the people we're just in like because we both admitted we are
00:25:43.880in that space where we just want it fast fast and and decent well i mean i've had conversations
00:25:51.000about this before when it came to education because it was something that bummed me out
00:25:54.940it was something that i witnessed firsthand when i was in high school and it was an english class
00:25:58.940there were kids specific kids i can think of and can remember the face of that wanted to learn
00:26:05.740things and wanted to keep up and wanted to be able to join the conversation and read and do
00:26:10.880all these things but they needed more help and we didn't have time to give them more help they
00:26:16.180fell through the cracks and i can only imagine that happens on every single level and every
00:26:20.060single avenue but it's like because we have a society where the output is the goal where
00:26:27.880productivity is the goal where efficiency is the goal and there are a lot of aspects where that
00:26:31.440makes complete sense we can't be in surgery for 20 million hours we want things to be as quickly
00:26:36.700and as well as possible but a lot of people fall through the cracks because of that and so i guess
00:26:40.920it then becomes a weighed scale of how much do we care and not care in the sense of what's morally
00:26:48.500correct to care about what you know we should care about but how much can we care how much can we
00:26:53.560shift or change a society how much effort can we put into that to change the way that runs because
00:26:59.140we disagree with it fundamentally though it may not necessarily be causing us harm because we're
00:27:04.180still getting the output that we want even if we could be getting a better output in theory
00:27:09.220yeah i think i it's such in my opinion that's the most important question and i tend to go
00:27:14.740to people who think like genius level who are creative amazing genius level thinkers
00:27:21.940who never survive in the organizational structure that you and i are speaking about
00:27:26.420So my question is, how many people have we discluded from the run altogether, right, that are working at a job, whatever job, I don't mean to demean any jobs, but are working at whatever job they're working at, yet they could have had the artistic genius, the physics genius, the whatever literary genius, yet the system was running on efficiency, bumped them out of the mix.
00:27:55.600how far from progress are like everybody says we progressed right so much and i agree we always
00:28:02.300move i'm just i'm curious how much would we have how much how much further would we be and that's
00:28:09.440a cool question of efficiency yeah because it's good if we're efficient and we're progressing at
00:28:15.560a certain rate if i take into account the five geniuses that got left behind how much further
00:28:22.060would they have bumped us along or would we would we have been at a similar rate but yet the
00:28:27.240efficiency mattered more because then we're still talking about a merit we can't quantify of course
00:28:34.420and and variables we'll never be able to assess because yes you could say that we lost out on
00:28:40.960those geniuses who's to say that the geniuses that we kept who were fast didn't do just what
00:28:47.000they would have done yeah if you weren't because they were there's no way to know no and you know
00:28:52.680i don't know if there is a full solution well to answer your question the initial question
00:28:59.440i don't believe that anywhere is fully a meritocracy i don't think it's doable i don't
00:29:07.680think quantify merit in that sense i think there is a standard of we have to take things at face
00:29:15.680value because you can't argue against the face value here's this resume here's that resume
00:29:20.240there is that standard of merit yes there is the aspect of did someone work hard does someone meet
00:29:26.400tick these boxes yes but there will always be things outside of that that will supersede
00:29:32.000whatever we consider merit in x context or us not being able to quantify merit in any context
00:29:38.640so no i don't think anywhere is fully a meritocracy i don't think that's doable
00:29:42.240And I just think, I mean, I would love to come to a percentage here, because when we started talking about nepotism and meritocrity, we didn't even get to the fact that women didn't have the right to vote until 1920 in the United States.0.60
00:30:00.880African-Americans were still segregated and kept out of schools until the 1970s.0.92
00:30:07.800Right. Women weren't in control of their own bodies. And you've taken a bit of a backslide there until, you know, well, 50 years ago. I mean, it wasn't until 1985 in Canada that if you were married as a woman, you were allowed to charge your husband with marital rape. That didn't even exist.1.00
00:30:27.600He could beat the crap out of you. You could take him to jail, but rape didn't exist. So all of these ways we have put, when people talk about merit, we have put real significant structural barriers that aren't old.1.00
00:30:44.600You can't even weigh merit unless everybody starts at the same place.
00:30:48.420I listen to guys like Peterson and Shapiro and Matt, heaven help me Walsh, talk about society.
00:31:02.860Oh, wait, guys. That's kind of a funny connection between them all. And then I'll hear they'll all negate all of that. They'll just wipe it clean.
00:31:15.060And I think that's where the conversation becomes disingenuous or a problem, right? Because things do kind of work in percentages. In the breadth that I would argue merit, like we said earlier, there is still absolute importance in working hard and attempting to be the best because that's what's going to get you in the room.
00:31:35.340That's what's going to get you considered in any capacity.
00:31:38.060At the same time, you can't say that it's only merit or that working the hardest is
00:31:43.240the key because plenty of people do those things and don't get anywhere, aren't considered.
00:31:48.860And plenty of people have been discounted from the conversation of merit to begin with.
00:31:52.820You can't have a conversation about who is the best at XYZ if these people aren't even
00:32:21.420Whilst also acknowledging the fact that the concept of merit is still going to
00:32:26.380be skewed, which is going to skew those results regardless in general.
00:32:30.060I think this conversation comes up and I feel like it's kind of run I don't know if it's run
00:32:37.240its course I don't hear a lot of people talking about it because it's been supplanted with the
00:32:40.640whole diversity and diversity equity kind of conversation right the notion of affirmative
00:32:48.680action now affirmative action was a huge fight or a huge conversation let's say in the 90s
00:32:55.840rolling up to 2000s. And it's kind of just changed the narrative a little bit. I think it's a similar
00:33:01.340idea. I think we've just restructured the how. And a lot of people obviously hate it, because on the
00:33:08.160front end, you're sitting there, and it sounds frustratingly inequitable. Yet, the assumption,
00:33:17.100the bad assumption that we make is that it used to be equitable. That's my problem.
00:33:24.300The issue that I have with people's contentions with affirmative action is, I think, kind of what you just said is they stem from an illogical place. Affirmative action wouldn't need to exist if everybody was already equal.
00:45:55.400Police in America do not have to protect and serve.
00:45:58.420The Supreme Court actually ruled that they do not have to protect citizens.
00:46:02.620They are to protect property and uphold the law.
00:46:06.240So when I if I were to call the police for a domestic violence situation, as an example, technically they don't have to intervene unless somebody does like they swing.
00:46:18.700They see that happening. Obviously, they I think most of the time do.
00:46:25.400But when people make the argument like the police have to protect and serve.
00:46:29.860That's not what I'd say to you. We have a wonderful. We write it right on the side of our cars up here.
00:46:35.340I think I think they have it. I think they have it on their badges, too. But yeah, it's just like it's like a bait and switch.
00:46:44.140It's let me see what the Supreme Court ruling was.
00:46:47.820I think it's also interesting. And I don't know. It's not like I'm around police officers all the time.
00:46:53.040But for me, I immediately don't feel better when cops enter the room.
00:46:58.280right and i've never i've never had a negative interaction it's not like i'm you know i've been
00:47:04.040beat up or i've been arrested or anything like that but when a cop enters the room i start to
00:47:08.400sweat and i want to leave that shouldn't be the energy i've only had good interactions with police
00:47:14.920and and interactions with police have been incredibly charitable toward me however that
00:47:19.400does not change my objective stance on siding with american citizens over branches of the government
00:47:25.640because should our government become tyrannical,
00:53:07.140But we've ignored the broken system for so long. I do not see the FBI and the CIA, well, more the CIA, but I do not see the FBI as inherently these monolithic power structures that are bent on certain collective endgame.
00:53:28.340I think that there's a lot of individual actors in those particular different categories that
00:53:38.280will do what they need to do to get what they need to get, maybe in collaboration with other
00:53:43.380people. And so when we talk about things like JFK and everybody, you know, everybody on Twitter is
00:53:48.440going mental about the FBI and the CIA. When we talk about things like that, we're not talking
00:53:54.840about it as an entity as a full-bodied entity we're talking about individual players leveraging
00:54:01.320their power to get what they want well right but welcome to the united states
00:54:06.200everywhere i think i well i think so what this speaks to is people think there is conspiracy
00:54:13.920in places where it's just human beings being human yeah i agree i i think people hand things up
00:54:20.140more often than necessary when in reality it's just I'm somebody who has power I want to do
00:54:26.520something I'm going to do it and it's no nobody you know Elon Musk had 44 billion dollars he
00:54:31.980bought Twitter what a waste of money when I speak when I speak about these entities as a whole it
00:54:41.140isn't me saying that I think everybody within the entity is working together to get something done
00:54:45.760It's me more so speaking to the potential of what they could do if they wanted to.
00:54:54.540That potential is what I'm always weary of.
00:54:57.020Because when you have the potential to do bad things or good things, what you do is
01:03:16.340But they also follow that up with you should be the president. What have I done that would make you think I would be a good president? What have I done that would make you believe that I would assess things from a better standpoint than other people or be able to react to things more measured? I have just the same issues that other people do have, if not more so, because I find that I turn America into a dictatorship. Free speech. Got to go.
01:03:37.300there we go because they don't even understand what the president does
01:03:42.500they think that the president has a level of power that they don't even have
01:03:49.940of the president is is to negotiate and make deals and make no everybody wants me to go to
01:03:56.580politics today and i'm like whose table am i sitting at i said if you want to give me all
01:04:02.340the power i'm all in i go i don't think it's going to end up well because again i'm doing
01:04:05.780a dictatorship too but whose table do you want me sitting at you want me sitting with the
01:04:09.860conservatives that's not going to end well you want me to sitting at justin trudeau's table
01:04:13.940i don't like half of the people he works with i i think and it's because of the system the
01:04:20.180system is set up to make backroom deals to lie to cheat to manipulate and then to sell that0.85
01:04:27.700to the people by the way the people know full well they're being sold bull crap and they buy into it
01:04:33.460Anyway, I think there's a lot of, a lot of levels to that.
01:04:38.200I think one, there is the question of, is it just the system or is it human nature?
01:04:43.880Is it a system that's unregulated partially because of human nature?
01:04:47.860Because how, there's something that I've noticed as well.
01:04:50.280And it's in almost any context, people kind of want an end all be all solution.
01:04:55.440Nobody wants to work and that'll get clipped and turn into a problem, but nobody wants
01:05:00.800A good percentage of the programs that we have, even if they were established with good intention or good policy, they fall through in a lot of arenas because no one is there to regulate them or make sure that they're running correctly or hold anybody accountable.
01:05:12.580The things that didn't fly back in the day, if there were positive aspects, it was because if people in power did something wrong, they'd get tar and feathered, right?
01:05:21.120A lot of people in power get away with things because there's no consequence.
01:05:27.500So I think people know they're being sold bullcrap and buy into it. Yes. People have been manipulated into believing things that they don't understand or that aren't true. Yes. But also at the end of the day, even if you know that all of these things are wrong and you vote every year, what else do you want people to do? What else are people supposed to do? We then get to the conversation.
01:05:49.560what yeah yeah well it needs to be yeah i mean then it gets it gets very very messy very very
01:05:55.440quickly because then you start um you know a lot of people will say things like all right i said
01:06:03.160that why do politicians have speaking of merit why do politicians have no the the only thing
01:06:10.360to be a politician to be the prime minister of canada you need to be 18 oh you could be 18
01:06:17.500a citizen no not to be prime minister to be in elected office i think to be prime minister i
01:06:24.260don't know the age minimum in the in the states is it 35 to be president i believe so okay so you
01:06:30.340have some random arbitrary age by the way which also is ridiculous at 35 all of a sudden people
01:06:36.180are smart and and you need to have what you you need to have a certain number of people vote for
01:06:42.440you and you need to have a certain amount of money here to run for basic politics i think
01:06:46.960it's based, you need to have at least $50,000 ready to go. And let's be honest, you're going
01:06:50.840to need a lot more than that. That's it. You don't need a degree. You don't need real life
01:06:56.480experience. You don't need anything. Meanwhile, to be a teacher, I need six years, but to be
01:07:02.660prime minister, I need what? To have a birthday and be a citizen? 15 minutes. Well, well, and then
01:07:09.380I retort because people, you know, say the same thing in the States. You, you need certain
01:07:14.720accolades etc blah blah blah or people get them but they're not required if you're in the if then
01:07:21.600i think people try to make the classist argument of if you're supposed to be for the people by the
01:07:26.880people if you put too many standards in place the average person can't be their average elected
01:07:35.440i have two problems with that number one here are my two problems with that i feel like this
01:07:40.240is a whole other podcast number one number one i don't want the average person deciding economic
01:07:47.280policy at the federal level period period i have i i have a good degree of background in politics
01:07:54.240and economics i am not educated enough to make an intelligent thoughtful powerful decision at that
01:08:00.560level that's my first problem um my my second problem is this notion that it's somehow classist
01:08:09.200okay i get that i get educated look university is not the be-all and end-all people will come at me
01:08:14.300from every single angle talking about that when i say educated by the way i never once said
01:08:19.300university in that tiktok i said educated but everybody just came at me like a floodgate of
01:08:24.480whatever um comprehension well yeah i mean but at the end of the day because people talk about
01:08:31.900wanting more grassroots um democracy i don't look i know nothing about fishing rights in northern bc
01:08:42.680And I think there's also the aspect, too, and maybe this is what people are saying when they tell us to run for office or run for president.
01:09:01.420Can you imagine me having a meeting with Vladimir Putin?
01:09:05.920No, he'd never meet with either of us.
01:09:07.440So meet with me. That would be so, oh my God, can you imagine? But I also think people recognize the way that we look at things and the way that we can see where we don't work the best, or I guess just the way our thought process is how we approach things.
01:09:28.680And if you get somebody like that in a position of power, say you are the president, you would be able to delegate the right people for the right job, perhaps, because I think I would be confident in that.
01:09:39.320I think as a person, if I did have that position or that type of power, I don't think I could make the executive decisions correctly.
01:09:46.080I think that would be too much. And I don't know enough. Obviously, I'm also 25.
01:09:49.800But I think I would have the stance of we need the right people who do know these things sitting at the table.
01:09:57.400This isn't about hiring people that I like. This isn't about hiring people that have my same beliefs. It's about hiring people from multiple aspects, from multiple walks of life who can sit at those tables and make those types of decisions. So if that's the angle that they're looking at it from, I guess I agree with that.
01:10:12.300Here's the problem, though, because if it would be very, very difficult.
01:10:19.260I mean, I joke about a dictatorship, but it would be very, very difficult.
01:10:22.520First of all, the prime minister and the president has no such power.
01:10:26.080They have no such individualized power in which they get to wield and manipulate and construct.
01:10:33.320And I use the word manipulate, not in an evil way.
01:10:38.120I just mean like in order to get anything passed, we recognize you need to have like the United States, of course, it's a division of powers for a reason, which means the president of the United States, even if he has both houses, it's incredibly difficult, incredibly, if not impossible, I might throw on the table to pass legislation he wants to pass because there's too many conflicting interests from the bottom up.
01:11:08.120We have a couple of things we can slap down to jam things through, but they typically
01:11:35.880But can we talk about like, let's say, all of the bombing during Vietnam from Nixon's slush fund? And the only reason he got in trouble, because he had some people break into what, what a dumbass, I like, we have some problems, we have some problems with accountability. Canada set up some people joke that Canada, Canada elects a dictator for five years, if they get a majority government, because we have a parliamentary system, right? We have a fusion of powers, it is different.0.97
01:12:03.980if the if the uh government of the day gets a majority of the house for the most part they
01:12:11.640can push through whatever the hell they want because they have a majority of votes and in our
01:12:16.740system you tend to vote for the most part i would say 90 percent of the time you're expected to vote
01:12:22.760with the party if you don't vote with the party you're never getting promoted you're never getting
01:12:26.820a cabinet position you're never getting anything like that good luck to your political career is
01:12:31.480over um so canada has a system more so like that but the more that i hear people prime ministers
01:12:39.300speak especially as of late the more you just hear and by the way leaders of all political parties
01:12:45.380you hear this reflection of what the party has decided as though it is a monolith and now the
01:12:54.540leader is no longer leading they are just the voice box of the masses and we know those masses
01:13:01.380are just not the elected people within the party they are the economic backers of those elected
01:13:07.280there it is and there's where we come down to the real problem in my opinion oh god she's gonna say0.96
01:13:13.280she's gonna fucking say the word money my who has the money who has the power at least we know0.98
01:13:20.520all of that corporate donor shit should be illegal but um along in some other way denisha0.99
01:13:27.420you know that all members of congress being able to hold and trade stock absolutely not0.95
01:13:32.460it would be a different country who has a judge but speaking of reparations and things of that
01:13:36.540nature reparations we're not talking about reparations when is canada going to pay us
01:13:41.660back for that little white house debacle listen you step out of line you get burnt that's what
01:13:47.980happens canadians don't apologize for accidentally breathing in the wrong direction wasn't even you
01:13:54.780understand you understand that canada wasn't canada in 1812 right while we're talking about
01:13:59.580accountability i just feel like it's something what canada wasn't a country until 1867. you want
01:14:06.380to go across the pond go knock at that big door with the king who's living in it ask him for an
01:14:11.580apology they were the ones in charge of that situation and to be honest you should be thanking
01:14:18.940us want to know why because the white house used to be salmon that was the color presidential
01:14:25.980mansion we gave you one of your biggest symbols of patriotic power you should be thanking us
01:14:33.100should have a little sign queen of gaslighting queen of gaslighting
01:14:39.580all right on that note guys can you do me a favor can you put in the comments before we get off here
01:14:45.660what Denisha and I should talk about next.