Unlearn16: Class is in Session - The One Where We Meet a Werewolf and Lose Our Souls (Part 1)

00:00:00.000 classes in session good evening everybody well good morning i guess it's 7 a.m on a tuesday this

00:00:08.520 is unlearn 16 classes in session and i've got stefan back i've got stew back why because we

00:00:15.540 are going to talk about the best season of buffy season two and i'm going to give both individuals

00:00:22.600 a chance to give a little bit of who who they are where we can find them and then we're going to

00:00:27.200 roll right into season two of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

00:00:30.280 Stefan.

00:00:31.680 Yeah.

00:00:32.220 You can find me on Instagram at SJ Maroney,

00:00:34.620 S J M A R O N I on Instagram. 0.98

00:00:37.040 And you can also find my podcast rebel without a closet at R W A C P O D on 0.99

00:00:42.480 Instagram.

00:00:43.200 You can also find us on Facebook under rebel without a closet,

00:00:45.940 the podcast.

00:00:47.620 And there's a merch store,

00:00:48.740 go to link a tree slash R W A C.

00:00:51.880 And you can find us there as well.

00:00:54.020 Fantastic.

00:00:54.660 Stu,

00:00:54.900 what about you?

00:00:55.980 All right. 0.98

00:00:56.240 You can find me at Jennikin, J-A-N-I-K-O-N underscore on TikTok if you want to laugh

00:01:01.480 with me every single day.

00:01:02.460 I also contribute regularly to Stefan's podcast, Rub Without a Closet, where you can find

00:01:07.700 all the links that Stefan just mentioned.

00:01:09.820 And I'm also wanting to be a vampire slayer since I was a child.

00:01:15.260 So like, I would have trolled graveyards if my graveyard was close to where I lived.

00:01:22.180 but i thought about doing tiktoks in graveyards but the but i don't want to be disrespectful i

00:01:27.620 feel like i feel like my desire to be funny and to be you know push past that disrespectful

00:01:36.320 i live across from unpleasant i get it also that's a great graveyard it is but i will say

00:01:42.920 that the only reason i am not a vampire slayer is and the only reason i don't drink tequila

00:01:46.100 anymore is because we played kings with white tequila and gold tequila and i got so inebriated

00:01:51.420 that i ended up in a cemetery and was looking for vampires i genuinely thought that was stewart's

00:01:56.460 story from before turns to someone else did this too it's weird no it was high school i didn't

00:02:01.000 realize that my favorite story um when i was a kid i walked i was like walking my friend crystal

00:02:06.520 at the time through a graveyard um and i loved the uh i was a very dramatic kid i don't know if

00:02:12.440 you guys know this i'm also sort of dramatic now not really i know it's shocking guys sure i know

00:02:17.680 it's crazy stop it's too much i know i'm too far a departure from who i am today but we were

00:02:23.440 walking through the graveyard and she was talking about how she was in like graveyards they creep

00:02:27.020 her out all this stuff so i just was like crystal you have to stop ghosts are not and there was like

00:02:34.520 and then threw myself down a hill and lay on top of a graveyard like landed very much like this

00:02:44.940 and she screamed but the problem was is it in this whole process of doing it for my art i slashed

00:02:51.140 my elbow so i just had to live with that best sometimes the best okay i i have the best prop

00:03:01.020 for this season are you ready i can't wait you're ready the orb of thetala stop look at that oh my

00:03:10.280 god oh my god stop it vault keep me see more to nisia flinte spirits new class the rugamante

00:03:17.720 last year or beat this affair um speak english is this supposed to happen

00:03:23.320 i got i was gonna recount all of the uh all of the story just so just to catch everybody up on

00:03:31.480 this season okay so so this season starts buffy kills the master we're done every season has a

00:03:38.440 a big bad if you're if you're just getting into Buffy it's like a video game at the end of every

00:03:43.760 season you got a big bad but the interesting part about this season is who the big bad is

00:03:49.280 and why he is bad Stu but I also think this is what we were talking about last last season last

00:03:55.660 recap this is a consistent storyline all throughout you follow one storyline throughout the entire

00:04:01.800 season and it just layers on top of that and I love it it's so good it's so meaty it kind of

00:04:07.900 touches every single character and pushes characters out of their comfort zone and i love

00:04:11.980 that because you see like a character in two different ways you see like um angel who is

00:04:16.700 loving and wonderful and supportive and just wants good and then you see angelus who is fun

00:04:22.140 playful and evil and so like maniacal and dark but you see that angelus bring out all the darker

00:04:28.820 parts of every other character you have drusilla and spike and then like discourse between them

00:04:33.560 and all the kind of the triad of them then you have like buffy's darker side you have after her

00:04:39.780 like the breakup and and him becoming this like pseudo-abusive boyfriend um or being sorry being

00:04:47.480 the abusive boyfriend metaphor is what i wanted to say murders um you have like willow and xander 0.74

00:04:53.120 oh era's so good it's such a great fucking season and for those who haven't seen it we're breaking 0.72

00:04:58.920 all sorts of things here but you have to understand that primarily angel is a vampire with a soul he 0.94

00:05:05.520 was cursed and he was cursed by gypsies excuse me for that terminology but that's what they talk

00:05:09.400 about in the uh in the show he was cursed because of the damage he did to one of their own and he 0.98

00:05:16.080 was cursed to have a soul they didn't kill him they wanted him to suffer so he was going to be

00:05:20.720 a vampire with all of those urges but he was going to feel guilt horrible painful guilt about that

00:05:27.180 And he was supposed to feel guilty forever.

00:05:29.880 And then this one thing happens,

00:05:31.740 and we're going to get to it later

00:05:32.680 because I want to get through some of the other.

00:05:34.360 Then one thing happens that shatters the curse.

00:05:37.940 And then we go from there.

00:05:39.340 So where do you guys want to start?

00:05:40.120 Moment of pure happiness.

00:05:41.260 Moment of truth.

00:05:43.300 Where do we start?

00:05:45.340 That's a lot of questions.

00:05:46.280 I think we should start at the beginning.

00:05:47.620 I think that's a really good place to start.

00:05:49.320 Part of the beginning.

00:05:50.080 Wow.

00:05:50.620 Yeah.

00:05:51.220 Thanks, Stuart.

00:05:51.960 Very good place to start.

00:05:53.420 Stopped.

00:05:54.460 I honestly think it'd be really great to start

00:05:57.060 because you Buffy's traumatized after the end of season one which I thought was really important

00:06:01.660 going into season two she comes back totally fine girl no emotions wants to punish everybody

00:06:07.500 right she died yeah and she was brought back to life so she's having well a little PTSD

00:06:17.080 exactly a little also it was it was foretold that she was gonna die she's 16 years old she comes

00:06:22.600 back at 17. Comes back from

00:06:24.480 a summer. She cuts her hair. Has a

00:06:26.240 beautiful bob worth of leather. 0.99

00:06:28.800 Has changed her makeup up 1.00

00:06:30.460 a little bit. She's no longer into the

00:06:32.460 blues. And now we're into

00:06:34.420 the hard mascara and dark eye.

00:06:36.980 I love it. Smoky

00:06:38.560 eyes were big this season.

00:06:40.480 I just love the fact that that was a really

00:06:42.440 interesting way to sort of portray her PTSD

00:06:44.620 was just, it's like, I

00:06:46.420 died. Nothing matters anymore.

00:06:48.580 What do I have to do? Just going through

00:06:50.500 the motions.

00:06:50.880 i feel like it's kind of like and i and i don't know if this is what they were going for but i

00:06:57.440 you guys must have been through a relation i've been through relationships where i get hurt and

00:07:02.000 it's pathetic and whatever but then i've been through a relationship a couple where i was like

00:07:06.940 i was done like i broke up i went through that and then i had nothing i was vapid empty so like

00:07:16.100 people would try to connect with me and i'd be like oh i think i'm broke no this is me broken

00:07:21.060 i don't have any i got nothing and that's the worst part yeah i don't know if that's what they

00:07:25.960 were kind of playing on a little bit there about the idea when you go obviously we didn't die but

00:07:31.100 when you feel like you do when you're a kid you know or when you're an adult sometimes it just

00:07:37.260 shuts everything down i guess to eventually it comes back well it's the idea of there's so much

00:07:41.860 pressure like she finally just shuts down and she says you know what i'm gonna go through the motions

00:07:46.420 of fine you want me to do something let's just do it oh you're here for work is this a work call

00:07:50.100 let me go back to sleep i get it i don't need my friends getting in my way because you can also

00:07:54.500 tell that she doesn't want to hurt others like it's like i want to get people out of the way

00:07:57.620 because i just want to focus on this i don't want i don't need friends i don't need my watcher i

00:08:01.620 don't need my love interest i just want to get done because i'm broken and also like no one can

00:08:07.700 save me no one can save me no one can save me you couldn't save me from that how can you save me

00:08:12.820 from anything else you know yes but that's the thing he didn't save her he brought her back

00:08:19.060 yes which is that when she died what's the difference that's because the difference was

00:08:24.900 they didn't prevent it yeah they cleaned it up after they were able to bring her back but no one

00:08:30.020 could no one was alongside her walking into the master's lair to die she was the lamb for the

00:08:35.940 the slaughter she literally they all just said to her you were going to meet him and you were

00:08:39.600 going to die and she's like i don't want to die it's like well it's prophesied it's like so

00:08:43.020 figure it out and then just that defeated of i have to do this to save everyone else if this

00:08:48.160 is part of the process only to realize that the only reason he gets out is because she went to

00:08:53.320 him so if she had just run away or didn't listen to the prophecy didn't listen to everybody else

00:08:58.820 she not only would have lived but nothing would have happened he would have been stuck there and

00:09:02.640 they would have found another way together so that defeat and that sort of like being separated and

00:09:08.160 also just being so no one was there to help me you know that destiny that fate that that under

00:09:16.320 you know the underpinning that it's prophesized and and just trying to compare it to real life

00:09:21.980 is is this whole notion that if we resign ourselves to that if we resign ourselves to

00:09:30.040 things we think are going to be in a way that brings them to pass oh 100 it's like a self-fulfilling

00:09:37.660 prophecy that's what they always are but the best thing about buffy is that there's always something 0.81

00:09:42.680 there's always death is my gift there's always the prophecy says she'll die there's always 0.96

00:09:47.260 something and the best part is that if they just work together and focus and think a little harder

00:09:53.100 or something clicks and it's an aha moment that's when things work out the way it's supposed to and

00:09:58.440 And I think for her, when she finally got to see those bones and she got to smash those

00:10:03.100 bones, that was her aha moment of, I'm going to be okay.

00:10:06.180 My friends are here.

00:10:07.660 Angel is here.

00:10:08.920 I'm going to be okay.

00:10:10.400 You know?

00:10:10.920 But I also think that like, I am a hundred percent agree, but I also think like being

00:10:15.840 able to smash the bones was able, there was a finality to that, that she could actually

00:10:20.800 take her power back and crush into death so he could never return.

00:10:25.300 i do think that in this episode we need to call out um the best quote ever which is buffy you're 0.85

00:10:31.560 really campaigning for bitch of the year and buffy turns around and says as reigning champion you're

00:10:36.240 nervous best thing in the world what does cordelia say what does cordelia say what does she say in 0.89

00:10:42.840 response i can hold my own which i think was the best response yeah yeah yeah so that was great

00:10:48.320 if you keep talking to your loser friends you're gonna lose them too i love it i love everything 0.82

00:10:52.860 about it um cordelia is so fucking amazing excuse me it was amazing i think cordelia can we talk 0.99

00:10:59.660 about cordelia for a second she really came into her own for those who don't know uh charisma 0.92

00:11:05.300 carpenter in real life and what she went through she went some pretty horrific things when it comes

00:11:09.840 to he who shall not be named and and i have a feeling if i was a betting woman there was a lot

00:11:15.960 going on way before that that she's just not even putting on the table that a lot of characters

00:11:20.040 putting on the table because that was a time where they're like that well besides sarah michelle 0.84

00:11:26.500 geller it was new life for all of them right sarah michelle geller did the whole uh daytime tv

00:11:32.500 yeah right and this is all my children so i'm wondering all my children i'm wondering how much

00:11:37.940 she suppressed how much she ignored how much she's really even you know because she was an amazing

00:11:44.400 character and for her to go off to angel and then have all of that happen in the back of my head i'm

00:11:50.260 just like i'd love to know damage for a while and what's so interesting is that the story that

00:11:55.500 everyone that that that james marcers always talks about is that that moment where joss literally

00:12:01.100 cornered him uh in a room and said you're not going to ruin my show but i'm like because he

00:12:06.780 didn't want to keep spike he wanted to oh the fans in season two in this season where we get

00:12:13.200 spike and drusilla who are two of the best characters in my mind because their stories

00:12:18.160 both span buffy and angel and the comics and it's they're so intricate and so interesting i'd say

00:12:24.600 the only thing about them is that something happens in season five which we won't talk about

00:12:27.580 yet but the the the fact that he was able to build on those characters only shows a great writing

00:12:35.260 great skill great ability but he hated the fact that he had spike in that show he didn't want him

00:12:39.840 in there and when you think about it that story of him cornering james marston right no marsters

00:12:45.340 excuse me cornering him was probably in season two so this had started right from the jump and

00:12:51.660 so cordelia or a chrisman carpenter absolutely had issues with him like immediately i also thought

00:12:58.640 re-watching the first episode of season two when they're when um all four of them are hanging above

00:13:03.900 the bones in my mind from a production standpoint i'm like they must be so uncomfortable because

00:13:09.980 they are hanging the blood is flowing down how long were they there and then you think about it

00:13:14.380 well if he's if he's so mean to them on you know he was just like keep going keep rolling yeah stay

00:13:19.900 there i'm all about feminism keep going part of me part of me now likes to think because obviously

00:13:25.980 all of us love buffy so much and we've had to come to terms with uh the creator of the show

00:13:30.460 but what i love about what you just said is buffy became great not necessarily just because of josh

00:13:37.520 but by the sounds of it in spite of josh yeah you saw a show if that is true because let's be honest

00:13:48.340 you get rid of spike what happens to the show you lose a depth to that show that i don't think

00:13:55.300 another character could have interjected you know what i mean yes we what i thought was super super

00:14:00.120 great about spike and i think this is the thing the show needed was it offered a character who

00:14:05.680 was likable who had charisma who was funny um who had a who it was a different side of a vampire you

00:14:12.240 had some a vampire who was evil and loved another vampire was seeking to make her better and i

00:14:18.040 thought was really interesting was when you paired up against angel in the beginning of the season

00:14:22.680 when angel sired uh angel sired spike i think it was really interesting because when angel

00:14:30.100 flipped and went back to unjealous as evil as spike was angel was 10 times worse even spike

00:14:36.720 was like we're we're a little too far into the darkness right now let's just like uh take a whole

00:14:41.420 step back but i thought it was really interesting because you need those moments you need those

00:14:46.120 characters to have more dimension and i think that he is the first villain that you actually

00:14:52.140 got a full backstory over you had full dimension from the time he started right it wasn't a one

00:14:58.340 tone they started to paint layers on top of it was like a layered demon and i i will say i think that

00:15:04.160 was more the actor than the writers i think they gave the actor very little to work with in the

00:15:09.700 beginning and he made it his own right i think that's where i because he was really having a

00:15:14.280 problem with him yeah yeah and and also i just love the fact that if you really look at it like

00:15:19.100 spike and drusilla are such a parallel to angel and buffy and so for angel to come over to spike

00:15:25.340 and drusilla and start messing with that dynamic and then try to then you have spike and buffy

00:15:30.060 together like i love the fact that they had to kind of like switch between the two because one

00:15:36.340 of the most fascinating things about season two and also just spike and drusilla in general is

00:15:40.360 that these are the only vampires we've seen up to this point that have real emotions that have

00:15:45.220 passion that have like jealousy and and love and concern for one another like it's so wild because

00:15:52.260 the very first thing that we see is when drusilla walks in um during school hard to meet the

00:15:57.560 anointed one she's just confused and spike she's confused and she's she's just um in that space

00:16:03.720 and he immediately turns to his boy face and says true you're weak and he's like holding her up no 0.98

00:16:09.320 vampire will give a shit about another vampire in this thing and then do you think it's a problem 0.99

00:16:14.180 in the in the storytelling there a little bit in the in the consistency if a if a vampire loses his 0.99

00:16:19.940 soul when he becomes a van or she becomes a vampire do you think there's a little bit of

00:16:24.740 an inconsistency that spike seems to have one already i actually i if i can say i think it's

00:16:30.660 because they had such passion prior to his siring so i'm i might be wrong in this and and you can

00:16:36.900 both confirm i thought drusilla was the one who sired spike not angel no because i mean it was

00:16:46.340 it was retconned i think it was right right in the in school hard he says you were my sire

00:16:51.460 yeah they went back and changed it later on yeah yeah yeah man i remember that line right yeah but

00:16:58.580 drusilla is the one that finds him in the in the alley and but they but he has such he he has he

00:17:04.260 immediately sees her and is like who is this woman and he's so enamored by her that when

00:17:07.860 when he is sired by her he is devoted to her and so that connection just stays with and evolves

00:17:14.420 over time that's how i felt steward i also think too that what was really interesting about it

00:17:19.620 was when willow in season three i'm only using this for a second when she says and i think i'm

00:17:24.740 kind of gay and buffy says to her being a vampire has no basis in the person that you were as a

00:17:30.340 human and angel goes oh well actually good point yeah i find it really interesting because angel

00:17:37.380 was so so evil so you have to wonder what kind of person he was and you get these clips in season two

00:17:44.420 where he comes out he's like what's a girl like you doing in a place like this he seems like

00:17:48.280 someone who is a swindler who takes a street litter and awful and also we don't we in the

00:17:55.140 first few seasons don't see the relationship between darla and angel but we know they have

00:17:59.180 a very similar relationship to spike and drusilla and that was the thing is sorry what that moment

00:18:05.100 when he kills darla in the first season she looks at him goes angel and drops it's because there is

00:18:10.980 a relationship between those two so it is interesting that if you are soulless i guess you

00:18:15.380 that doesn't mean emotionless that just means without guilt or or you know i always read it

00:18:22.140 was it they become a lot like a uh like times a thousand percent of their like worst quality

00:18:28.340 so like spike is a lot more passionate he is codependent with drusilla uh darla very yeah

00:18:35.560 yeah darla and angel and jealous were very power driven power hungry yeah wanted to dominate um

00:18:44.820 and you had willow when she became a vampire was again the same she was sadistic and you see that

00:18:50.800 reflected in the way she was when she was evil as a witch and it it does make sense because i guess

00:18:56.140 just the worst traits of you as a human would just be amplified tenfold well yeah 100 which

00:19:00.860 makes sense because when you look at at the way spike responded like spike was so well we can't

00:19:05.800 go too far because that's revealed in future seasons but yes passionate would be and codependent

00:19:10.440 would be two perfect descriptions for for spike and also knowing that he has to try three times

00:19:16.560 as hard again later because he ha he doesn't have a soul it's a whole thing but it's just so weird

00:19:23.540 like i guess the moment where that that scene you're talking about where drusilla walks in for

00:19:28.600 the first time and he quickly turns around and turns into his very human face to me to me that's

00:19:35.720 a soul to to me that's that's something else and you know obviously we're dealing in you know uh

00:19:43.720 there's not real hard and fast rules but i thought that that was a very interesting because spike

00:19:47.940 will eventually choose right spike will eventually choose and even my i guess my point is the fact

00:19:57.180 that he can choose dictates he had you know i'm holding up this why because when angelus was bad

00:20:05.920 he was given a choice he he was given a choice we're gonna take it away we're gonna we're gonna

00:20:10.640 to create the spell again and what does he do he takes this and smashes it against the wall

00:20:14.720 he doesn't want even as that choice would have been easy but he doesn't want anything to do with

00:20:19.480 it right i have a i have a weird stretch it's a weird stretch theory they've always had about

00:20:24.640 the wizard of oz okay because and it's weird and i'll bring it in because it's my favorite thing

00:20:29.340 in the world but i never thought the wicked witch was the most evil person in in oz i thought it was

00:20:34.860 the tin man the reason i thought it was the tin man is because the tin man has no emotions he has 0.79

00:20:39.660 no heart he doesn't care he would act without like without reason whereas the the witch is 0.53

00:20:46.320 driven by passion and anger and resentment and emotions where if they were trying to say i have

00:20:52.040 no heart i wish i had a heart that could beat so i could feel love well what else are you not feeling

00:20:55.460 so for me it was always so interesting that if i could recreate the wizard of oz like just

00:21:02.140 universe i would have the tin man being the big bad he'd be like the ultron it would make no sense

00:21:07.780 he has no emotions no feelings no no human connection all he wants is to feel like one

00:21:13.660 and then when you have glinda and and elphaba but the the evil the wicked witch they they're

00:21:20.720 driven on passion so i think that's interesting i when it comes to like the soul what does that

00:21:26.280 really mean and again i think soul is just that yeah that part of it you know yeah i always thought

00:21:32.160 the the spell that was actually really interesting point stephen now i'm gonna think about that all

00:21:36.360 night long thank you what i thought was what i found what i've sort of taken from the the curse

00:21:44.560 being um kind of like the re bringing in his soul or like giving him back a soul it always seems in

00:21:51.540 the buffy universe a soul is a like especially you look at angel it's a cell it's like a conscience

00:21:58.160 they've reassigned to him like an amplified conscience and like metric of like what it is

00:22:03.840 to be human and i think it's interesting because you have regret by every other vampire like every

00:22:10.940 other vampire feels regret and remorse and um and has that you even have it with spike and i think

00:22:18.380 it's interesting because oftentimes especially later on in this in this series and i guess in

00:22:24.700 this season as well they're all motivated by by selfishness like even spike wanting to still it

00:22:31.440 back was because he doesn't want angel to have her yeah he doesn't want it to be different to

00:22:35.940 change whereas like later on when you assign a soul back to spike in season seven it becomes more

00:22:43.100 i i did something to you the show has been on out off the air guys for like over 20 years

00:22:50.380 well here's a fun i do think too like with angelus what i found so interesting was the soul

00:23:00.420 was such a toxic part of him. Like you see that throughout the ages, like he doesn't handle it

00:23:06.520 well because of all the devastation and murder that he has caused. But what I find most interesting

00:23:13.800 about it was he was never able to kind of be okay with it. He never found peace with having this

00:23:25.580 soul there was never any forgiveness for him he was always punished by having a soul and I found

00:23:30.720 it really interesting through all of the good deeds he did throughout Buffy and Angel and going

00:23:35.080 into Angel as well it was always this like Angelus was the the most evil thing in the world so

00:23:43.140 dangerous so horrible we have to get Angel his soul back so he is crushed under guilt and that

00:23:49.380 was what I found the most interesting about it was the fact that Angel although one of my favorite

00:23:54.640 characters and angelus is somebody that i i love watching um i found it so interesting that every

00:24:02.060 other vampire that we kind of we came in contact with it would be harmony or um spider or darla

00:24:10.160 or any of the other characters you you had like a layer like you had they learned something they

00:24:17.200 were able to live without a soul and have friends and relationships and go to work and all these

00:24:23.260 things and angel had to be like legitimately like held under a curse to just be reasonable

00:24:30.500 yes and i so what's really interesting and i have a question that i'm going to ask after this so

00:24:35.320 um if we're going to spoil there's there is a additional comic book series that is based on

00:24:41.680 willow and spike where um they have to find a soul for drusilla and long story short spike's

00:24:48.180 soul is taking out of him and put in drusilla but they thought by removing a spike soul that they

00:24:52.820 get will and the buddy back and it would be this whole big thing so there's this big you know a

00:24:57.880 cliffhanger of oh spike doesn't have a soul anymore and then he just responds normally and

00:25:02.820 they're like wait what's going on he's like i have been fighting without a soul for years he's like i

00:25:08.140 didn't need a soul i don't need it now i am who i am and i thought that was so interesting because

00:25:13.200 it's true technically when you think about all the other characters and maybe it is just because

00:25:17.340 of all the hard work Spike has done but I the question I have is who do you think is more

00:25:25.220 powerful and dangerous and or dangerous Angelus or Spike William the Bloody who is more powerful

00:25:33.100 between the two I'd have to say Angelus only because one of my favorite episodes has to be

00:25:39.060 the judge okay pieces we get the pieces our job sucks it's right it's tattoo and here's why

00:25:44.820 because he is willing irrespective of consequence he has nothing on the most dangerous people in 0.95

00:25:55.440 the world are the people that have nothing left to lose i don't care what comes next

00:26:01.880 i am going to burn it all down and i'll go with a smile on my face knowing i'm the one that brought

00:26:10.560 it all down and that spike always had that's why he fights against him in that he always had a

00:26:16.160 vested interest in the world being the world yeah because he wanted to have fun yeah he didn't want

00:26:21.740 it sucked into some demon who wants that that's not enjoyable i don't want that i have a vested

00:26:27.060 interest in this whereas angel is just like everything could be burned to a cinder and

00:26:34.880 and that's the only way i'm gonna die happy because i'm that horrific well that's why i

00:26:40.380 think well that's why i think angelus is a lot more dangerous but i think spike is a lot more

00:26:44.000 powerful because he can control those emotions he can say i'm gonna look at the big picture i'm

00:26:48.920 gonna go farther because like like stewart said and angelus has to literally be held down by a

00:26:56.100 spell whereas everyone else can sort of control themselves and grow with what they have like we

00:27:01.080 see it in harmony's episode in angel where she literally had to just say like it's harder for me

00:27:05.160 i have no soul i'm trying and i'm trying to do good and be good and spike doing the same whereas

00:27:10.780 whereas angelus is so unhinged that he legitimately takes out one in in one of the

00:27:16.540 most powerful scenes of season two and he had to do it and in angelus face he removes jenny

00:27:21.940 calendar from from let's just say the cast of characters in the best way to say it oh my god

00:27:27.060 best neck snap ever it was terrifying and they couldn't do it as angel because the fans could

00:27:33.080 not see angel do it it had to be unjealous oh it had to be but that was what every single thing

00:27:38.700 that he did evilly like in an evil way or or a sadistic way he did as angelus never once in all

00:27:45.760 the horrible things he did including almost killing willow he did with a vampire face

00:27:52.520 like which is so interesting because it's great because it shows the duality of the size of the

00:27:57.800 character that people needed to associate unjealous with a vampire an angel with a soul

00:28:03.480 of the angelic face right but do you think that's kind of sort of a disservice to the fans because

00:28:08.180 if we think of like vampire diaries which literally has taken so much of its lore and its

00:28:12.900 its fans from buffy when stephan does evil or damon does evil it's them and they just have to

00:28:20.840 live and the the fans and also the cast have to live with the fact that like stephan and enzo

00:28:25.820 it's like it was him in that moment and he was seductive and he said did i do it again where i

00:28:30.880 said two words together no never mind no yeah yeah yeah yeah okay he was evil but like but he

00:28:39.360 did it with a smile on his face whereas i think there was either was there a i don't know if it's

00:28:43.840 just we have so much stock in angel that we can't show him doing this so it has to be the evil

00:28:49.140 version but like i think you should trust your your audience enough steward i'm sorry i have one

00:28:54.060 comment to make just sorry i'm going to just interject one i completely agree with you i think

00:28:59.140 though what they what they did in vampire diaries which they didn't do in buffy and i think what we

00:29:04.680 can talk about with buffy and i think this is something that is important throughout all the

00:29:08.520 characters of the season we were going to talk about was they were it's all a very black and

00:29:13.900 white and i think what vampire diaries did was they set clear guidelines at the beginning of the

00:29:20.020 show if you turn your humanity off you are evil and i think with the with buffy they lived in

00:29:27.600 good or bad and then as they continued on in the show they started revisiting the vampire like

00:29:35.500 empiric lore and then shifted it more to gray whereas like as in vampire diaries they sort of

00:29:42.840 they started that way they were like and what i find most interesting vampire diaries is you

00:29:47.860 heard from katherine being like i never turned it off i did these things all these all this evil

00:29:53.380 for self-preservation it's it's me whereas angel did it because he had no soul so i do think but

00:30:00.360 i did want to get back to our conversation about cordelia and i have to apologize yeah but we have

00:30:07.080 to get to the point where he loses his soul because i'm sorry he does do the most evil thing

00:30:11.580 ever yeah right in angel face when he says i love you too babe that was the worst that okay sorry

00:30:20.300 stew go back to cordelia then we'll no no no i was gonna say like i think cordelia did a lot of

00:30:25.180 layering seven oh yeah well i just wanted to apologize because i'm so used to like moderating

00:30:29.420 that i just keep passing it to stewart my bad i remember i'm like stew go ahead it's like that's

00:30:33.900 That's not my podcast.

00:30:35.860 He sits there so cute with his hand up.

00:30:37.980 You kind of have to.

00:30:39.360 Hi, guys.

00:30:41.160 I'm here, too. 0.96

00:30:42.980 No, I think with Cordelia, I think in the season one, you got a very, like, one-dimensional mean girl.

00:30:48.420 I think you got a little bit more layers near the end.

00:30:52.760 But season two and into season three when she departs for Angel and they really do a lot of hard work.

00:30:57.680 I think season two, you start to see that, that mean girl facade, especially when she starts dating Xander or like secretly making it with Xander after what's my line part one. I think you have that, that slow, he gets in there and he, he kind of breaks in that barrier.

00:31:15.620 And she sees that when you're not, when you're, you're directing your energies toward helping people and doing good things and being selfless, I think you see that those seeds tap in, which is why it's so tragic in season three when she's so hurt because she can't go back.

00:31:40.800 right but she tries to be she tries to kind of go back to that mean girl

00:31:46.680 um that she was before but she can't do it she's seen too much she's felt too much

00:31:50.740 and i really appreciated the work she did because even when she's she's one of the

00:31:55.140 funniest characters like some of the one-liners she comes up with one of these days you wake up

00:31:59.020 in a coma like i think it was she they were able to write her off of giles very well um she had a

00:32:06.280 really great um sparring with with uh with buffy in some assembly required when she's talking about

00:32:12.740 my drama my this and they're just like they're there one of the funniest lines ever or one of

00:32:17.840 the funniest scenes is when cordelia is trying to get like try to open up try to be emotional

00:32:21.340 everyone's like uh-huh they're there i was like that is so clever also i just have to say it

00:32:25.720 angel investigations we help the helpless okay i just had to put it out there well i think what

00:32:31.920 We have to get to when Buffy loses her soul.

00:32:33.760 Because obviously there's no bigger metaphor for a high school girl. 1.00

00:32:37.700 Sorry, when Angel loses her soul. 1.00

00:32:40.300 There's no better.

00:32:41.920 That might have been like a Freudian.

00:32:44.080 There's no better metaphor, obviously.

00:32:46.920 For abstinence.

00:32:47.500 The girl has sex for the first time with the guy she doesn't know all that well. 1.00

00:32:53.940 And he wakes up in the morning an asshole. 1.00

00:32:56.920 He got what he wanted. 1.00

00:32:59.200 I love it.

00:32:59.780 i'm gonna just i'm gonna say i'm gonna be like a really like i'm gonna have a be an opinion

00:33:08.660 ophelia for a second but like um the one thing i cannot stand about like that people have done

00:33:15.760 for like vampiric stories for so long is they sort and you see this in twilight and you kind

00:33:20.240 of see this in like shades of buffy sometimes as well depending on the writer you get this middle

00:33:24.480 america like very like um like religious belt sort of like don't have sex before marriage stay pure 0.99

00:33:32.880 literally become a murderer and kill you like it's it's like you will die if you have sex 0.99

00:33:40.000 but it's always only assigned to females men are out there in the world just having sex with all 1.00

00:33:46.020 women and that's fine this woman's of her virginity and they're like you saw your boyfriend 0.97

00:33:50.780 now i'm a serial killer all your family and friends what did we learn what did we learn 0.98

00:33:57.900 it's not middle america it's america look they just repealed roe v wade 0.87

00:34:03.100 they're doing all over again down there it's all your fault keep your leg i have heard elected 0.98

00:34:09.820 officials in 2022 say keep your legs together ladies like that it's disgusting they're all in 0.90

00:34:16.860 my favorite um my favorite like the worst one because then chills in my spine was one of the 0.99

00:34:21.520 elected officials saying i trust when i do trust women i trust women to control when a man ejaculates 0.99

00:34:27.500 inside of her yes and i was like jesus what loud in a fucking public meeting and all the women 1.00

00:34:35.000 around her were like but no but she gets accolades from idiots yes yes we live in and we still live 0.99

00:34:43.040 there every horror movie and i would love to do a whole thing on horror movies but every horror 1.00

00:34:47.560 movie is exactly what you said it's an urban legend keeping kids from having sex and all 0.99

00:34:54.740 putting it all on women and there's a reason for that having sex drinking and doing drugs 1.00

00:34:59.900 that is all on her and she's supposed to protect the family and she's your tentacle framework 0.99

00:35:04.920 100 it's such it's such horseshit because it's it's so ridiculous like all the pressure is on 0.95

00:35:10.520 her it's up to her like a hundred percent agree with you and i hate the fact that that this idea 0.61

00:35:16.080 of of i've lost it i got so passionate that i lost my my trade of thought but it was just this

00:35:22.920 ah i hate it i hate it i hate the fact that the the idea is don't oh it's expecting teenagers

00:35:33.100 specifically women to just expect heartbreak expect the men that care about you and the 0.83

00:35:39.420 people that care about you to hurt you because the second you're vulnerable the second you give 0.89

00:35:43.580 up innocence or or your virginity or your happiness that's when they turn on you that's

00:35:49.480 when it goes bad and now just so stay hard ladies just stay hard it's hilarious that we associate

00:35:55.540 innocence with virginity i was just saying this as i was driving i'm like you know what's weird

00:36:00.280 oh i know why because they beep the f word in every song right they beep the f you can't ever

00:36:05.240 hear the f word on on radio and i think that's hysterical considering what i can watch on tv

00:36:10.740 because every we we've been watching reruns of dexter and i'm like what time did dexter come on

00:36:16.280 at night eight so 8 p.m with him you can sit down put on channel eight and watch a guy watch all

00:36:24.560 these horrible people do awful things like and you see it and then the hero of the season of the

00:36:31.380 series then kills them all there's nothing blurred there's no problems but i don't i shouldn't be

00:36:38.180 able to hear the f word what is wrong with us i i honestly think like let's look at that episode

00:36:44.540 for a second episode was surprised when she when she lost her virginity to angel and i think it

00:36:49.160 was really interesting because it was an amazing episode and you get to that episode and you're

00:36:54.660 not hooked i don't know you're broken i don't know something's wrong something's wrong the entire

00:36:59.100 episode centers around them trying to stop uh drusilla and spike from assembling the judge to

00:37:05.120 kill buffy um and like rain hell on earth um you get luke from season one back as the judge which

00:37:12.020 i thought was really really interesting yeah yeah yeah but i find it most interesting because what

00:37:18.880 happens is is buffy prevails they have uh they go into the go the docks they send the arm away

00:37:25.360 jenny's like send this arm away forever they get back to angel's apartment fight through it

00:37:29.440 and they both confess their love for each other um they have sex they go to sleep angel wakes up

00:37:35.520 screaming and the episode ends what i find most interesting about that was that you have

00:37:41.660 buffy wakes up in the beginning of the episode screaming over the fact that um she has a dream

00:37:48.100 that drusilla kills angel right yeah and at the end of it she loses angel and she loses angel

00:37:53.780 in this sort of like frameworked world because she loved him and trusted him and gave up her

00:38:00.620 body to him therefore she loses him she's got to lose him she lost she's got to lose him more than

00:38:06.580 one way so after he becomes bad the rest of the season is brilliant because Angelus is way better

00:38:12.380 than Angel yes by far like it's not even close right um and we see episode after episode of her

00:38:22.080 dealing with the fallout of this initially she doesn't even want to tell anybody yet but it's

00:38:26.580 all about what she's done and there's that very sweet moment with giles in the car you guys know

00:38:32.380 what i'm talking about yep i know exactly what you're talking about where she kind of puts it

00:38:35.640 on the table and he goes it's not about like it's not your fault it's not on you and there's this

00:38:40.920 very i can't remember the exact dialogue that goes on um because you know you can talk about

00:38:47.520 being impetuous, or you can talk about making maybe decisions on the flying, but that's not

00:38:52.040 your fault. None of this is your, none of this world is your fault. But what we're going to find

00:38:57.140 out season seven is it was always set up to be her fault. And I say her as in Buffy's fault,

00:39:05.540 or her as in women's fault in general. It's always been on the women. It's always been on 1.00

00:39:12.820 the women to be virtuous to be powerful to think and feel bigger than everything else in this world 0.92

00:39:20.320 um and it's been set up that way because men are too weak to do so yeah men are weak men are weak

00:39:27.740 oh i forgot wait are you talking about the scene where she she turns him in the car and she says

00:39:31.540 yes you must be so disappointed with me yes and like god i love that scene he's like he's like um

00:39:38.180 i know that you loved him and he's he showed multiple times he loves you back

00:39:42.360 and then something like do you want me to wag my finger at you and tell you that you're wrong and

00:39:46.000 that was i love that giles is like our sex positive king like all the father we all needed

00:39:51.820 just because we know why because we'll talk about the ripper later we know he was into some

00:39:57.880 stuff back in the day but it's also like another man saving a woman even though this entire thing

00:40:04.060 is about women empowerment yeah yeah sometimes i really wonder about joss whedon's just overall

00:40:12.460 ideas on women and society because we hailed him for as a feminist who who brought women to the

00:40:20.460 forefront and power empowered them and this and that but like when you really go back and look

00:40:26.140 at these scripts and look at these scenes and look at these these themes did he like did he really

00:40:32.220 well first of all he's not a good person but second of all we have to that we'll put that

00:40:38.720 out there the dude wasn't i don't think he got any girlfriends in high school and he was just

00:40:43.660 sort of playing that out for the rest of his life yeah he was xander yeah who eventually got

00:40:50.080 a movie deal um but i think the interesting part is we still have to remember what it was like in

00:40:57.620 1995 or night, whatever year this 97, right. We, we have to remember like, guys, that's,

00:41:06.120 you know, hell of a long time ago. And we also have to remember what just came before that

00:41:11.700 gay marriage, not even, not even a possibility, not even close being out and being gay, not even 0.86

00:41:19.280 like people were out, but it was painful and it was violent. And it was, you know, all of those 0.89

00:41:24.660 things um you you just started seeing equity laws change to protect women from being sexual

00:41:32.420 assaulted in their marriage that just happened in the late 80s we we were still living in that

00:41:39.300 culture and do i think he maybe tried to show something strong and whatever but he still existed

00:41:45.780 as gross as he is he still existed in that time yeah but that's true and i think that you have

00:41:52.100 a lot of these characters existing like yes i think for for 1998 and throughout i think buffy

00:41:58.620 can be seen as a as a feminist icon if you take buffy abstractly out of the the framework of the

00:42:05.040 show that she's in yes her willow um faith all these characters cordelia they're all feminists

00:42:13.600 in their own right they stand up for themselves they fight their own battles they do this but i

00:42:17.480 think it becomes problematic when you layer the men on top of their storylines because a lot of

00:42:22.120 their storylines are told through a male for a male lens through a male like the gaze also exactly

00:42:29.220 you have a series of men who who basically started the slayer line you have um uh men are easily

00:42:39.000 corrupted and therefore corrupt the women in their lives as well um so i i think it's it's

00:42:43.480 interesting because i think you have these seeds of of what we classify as modern day feminism now 0.99

00:42:50.220 but i think in that moment i think what joss sweden did have was strong female writers who

00:42:58.080 were able to seed in these conversations that were really needed to have because you didn't see

00:43:02.100 brash depictions of female sexuality on um tv at this time or in movies it was all very chase like

00:43:09.360 seventh heaven era keep your wb era what was very much a good thing to lose your virginity it was

00:43:16.100 massive storylines the thing is later on in this series you have buffy and i remember

00:43:21.320 we were watching the episodes um in season four of her and parker and being so angry at the fact

00:43:28.380 this like fling is a five episode arc about how miserable she is and i was like but buffy's

00:43:34.940 summers like what are you oh this man is like a speck what are you doing yeah get your stuff

00:43:42.520 together suffered through so much worse than this literal like amoeba but i find that's the part

00:43:50.440 exactly but i find that's the that's the kind of trade-off in the show is you have these great

00:43:56.360 storylines these great moments with giles and buffy where he's like well i'm not going to wag

00:44:02.080 my finger at you you are in control of your own body you did what you thought was right for

00:44:05.340 yourself um no one can hold accountable but then you have the other like it often is bookended

00:44:11.560 with this really regressive attitude toward females told through men sure that's the most

00:44:17.940 interesting thing part of uh the most interesting thing about Buffy through all the seasons is you

00:44:23.020 see the work that those female writers and that kind of like uh resurgence of like female voice 0.70

00:44:31.240 and and owning their own stories but then you have this kind of like clash with that kind of 1.00

00:44:37.000 traditional most comfortable for america mind or north america mindset which is honestly probably 1.00

00:44:42.560 where joss came in exactly like here's my story and the women are like let's just add a couple

00:44:47.980 things right but i think that's an interesting part about buffy i enjoy watching it for that

00:44:53.520 is like seeing that like push and pull sure yeah but that would be the push and pull of that it's

00:44:58.320 still the push and pull it's still the push and pull right because it's funny i've been forced

00:45:03.300 to watch teen wolf and what i find interesting about teen wolf heaven help me well i'm forcing

00:45:09.740 her to watch 90210 the original um and i'm watching uh teen wolf but what's interesting

00:45:15.920 about teen wolf are is the way that the i can't remember the girl's name the way that the two

00:45:20.140 main girls are written they don't give a crap and that girl on the first date by the looks of it 0.87

00:45:26.780 has sex with scott and never thinks about it again there's not any guilt there's not any anything 0.98

00:45:32.600 great it was just like oh what did she just throw him in that bus is that what's going on right now

00:45:37.180 and so you see that push is it all right yeah um you see that change but then the whole now

00:45:46.940 granted i'm not very far but you still see it so painfully and this is an interesting question so

00:45:52.180 painfully from the side of men is it because and this is a great question i want to come back to

00:45:58.800 the end of buffy because i know we only have 10 minutes left but is it because do you think

00:46:02.040 even if you had the most progressive writers even if you had the writers that knew exactly

00:46:08.100 how to formulate it so it became sort of the most perfect feminist equitable kind of superhero story

00:46:15.960 do we still live in an era where you have to sell the tv show and if you have to sell the tv

00:46:21.760 show you better put the leading man winning the day in there somewhere are we still there what

00:46:28.120 so that's a really interesting question it's something that we talk about a lot on rebel

00:46:31.480 out of closet um in a different in a kind of different mindset of talking about um more from

00:46:36.780 lgbtqia perspective of this question but i agree with you i i'm gonna i'm gonna throw a kind of

00:46:43.500 caveat in there i do think you have more female-led um uh stories i think the issue oftentimes and you

00:46:52.820 see this with the discourse with captain america sorry captain marvel was that then you have kind

00:46:58.920 of all of these incel um like very much comic book uh assigned uh enthusiasts they know they

00:47:07.900 know the rules because they read the comic book exactly right you have them kind of entering the

00:47:12.200 chat and being quite problematic in those things and it kind of owning the narrative of like well

00:47:19.460 she's hated because she's confident and she stands up and she's one-liners so I think you I think

00:47:25.120 television currently is more perhaps um uh a little bit farther along in that process I think

00:47:36.900 you see a lot more of those storylines on television and have the ability to explore

00:47:40.840 them a little bit more i do let's get more time sorry yeah you have a lot more time right

00:47:49.240 yeah i also think like in a show like teen wolf that came up many years after

00:47:53.640 buffy you're also seeing the feminization of male storylines um and you see a lot of

00:47:58.840 those storylines as well which is also something that we don't see quite a bit we don't see like

00:48:03.800 um a broad scope of human emotion from male characters and like styles main character in

00:48:09.560 in that show has all of the emotional scope and range the only difference is is they write him

00:48:15.960 like a female character they write him right traditionally like a female character a lot more

00:48:22.940 feminine qualities and i think as a society we accept that more from a television show we would

00:48:28.420 not go see a movie with those you would not go see a movie slowly right he becomes like you said

00:48:34.900 he becomes endearing you don't even know you're starting to like him and then you're like oh

00:48:38.780 shit i like the character that's like you know so it becomes that and maybe it's given space to that

00:48:43.960 but i've also i've all often thought because people talk about it so much what what the movies 0.88

00:48:49.380 are supposed to do i'm like movies and tv show are supposed to make money they're they're not

00:48:55.060 supposed to change the world um and if they change the world too fast they don't make any money and

00:48:59.920 guess what they get kicked off tv there have been great shows with amazing that were written too

00:49:05.240 early and if they were written five years later they would have had a much more significant run

00:49:10.340 right true calling what's up true calling with eliza deshu true calling true calling i'm thinking

00:49:17.380 of uh saving grace saving grace was great too holy hunter was amazing or he was amazing about

00:49:24.060 three seasons why did he get three seasons you know what i mean or united states of tara was

00:49:28.120 have also heard about that yeah amazing show loved it sorry so i know i know i want to get

00:49:34.440 to the end of buffy only for season two only because i know you guys are constraints of time

00:49:38.980 otherwise we'll sit here all night yeah the way you guys are talking i gotta go watch teen wolf

00:49:42.420 oh my god i don't know uh it's a little bit campy you know what it's not horrible it's fun to watch

00:49:50.800 i would have preferred a if styles was actually the main character i would prefer styles was

00:49:56.140 actually the main character and actually openly bisexual wouldn't that be lovely i would love that

00:50:00.720 stefan if you want to have a really good time just type in derek and styles um fan fiction

00:50:06.160 i've written my own angel spike fan fiction i get it yeah steric steric fan fiction is those

00:50:16.020 those fans are filthy and i'm like here for it all oh please i've seen like the dean and sam

00:50:24.900 winchester chronicles that's insane but the interesting question is okay minus the minus

00:50:32.540 the you got to play this after midnight kind of kind of storyline the interesting question is

00:50:37.540 you make styles the lead character you make them bisexual does that even get past the pilot

00:50:42.920 that's the thing i don't think probably not at least i don't know so i think it's interesting

00:50:48.820 because it's an mtv show so i think they may have gotten maybe like three or four episodes out of it

00:50:53.580 but unless it was so amazing and well-written it wouldn't have got it it it rested in the laurels

00:50:59.740 of a very shaky uh um like supernatural lore it did not do well with world building it world

00:51:10.120 built as the show progressed and that caused problems with the backstory lines well and not

00:51:15.100 to not not to to add to because i want to finish it up but like do you think it's interesting that

00:51:19.560 if you think of it in that context

00:51:21.320 do you think part of the reason that

00:51:23.680 Buffy went after

00:51:25.800 surprise and

00:51:27.720 innocence, do you think

00:51:29.780 if they didn't have it so that he went evil

00:51:31.780 because they had sex and this was sort of

00:51:33.660 a cautionary tale to the audience

00:51:35.680 do you think if they went another way

00:51:37.480 with it, that would have cancelled the show?

00:51:40.420 Do you think that that influence

00:51:41.760 of having that sort of response of

00:51:43.680 this is what happens when you have sex

00:51:45.400 this is what happens 0.99

00:51:46.580 because it's Fox

00:51:49.460 It really served a purpose, yeah.

00:51:51.320 Sorry, it was WB.

00:51:53.140 It was a WB back then, right?

00:51:54.840 But I think they had a very specific – you're right, because it was like – it was Dustin's Creek and Seventh Heaven and all these other shows that are very similar.

00:52:02.520 And I think that might have been sort of a pull of you need to write this into your story or at least somehow.

00:52:08.520 I want to ask you a question.

00:52:11.060 What female character on the WB who lost their virginity in a television show, which usually was the full episode storyline, how many of them had a good experience?

00:52:22.360 How many of them walked away? 0.98

00:52:24.580 Checkmark, that was fine.

00:52:26.180 i i would i would probably wager a guess and i haven't seen them all that not all it was it was

00:52:32.480 supposed to be it was a bad decision the first time before some man who is good and pure comes

00:52:39.920 and saves her and really her first time was always hide it they felt like they had to hide it because

00:52:47.060 i know joey and pacey that whole storyline felt like they they eventually did it but it was like

00:52:53.220 hidden and they didn't want to talk about because it's personal because it's this because it's that

00:52:56.580 it's just like oh now you made something that was lovely hopefully not even even in its aftermath

00:53:04.440 you know and we didn't even talk about the fact that sheila in school hard was a bad girl who

00:53:10.220 didn't who owned her sexuality he didn't care she was literally going to a catalog with two dudes 0.96

00:53:14.680 and what happens to her she dies because of course she does she's a bad girl she's a bad girl and

00:53:19.480 Buffy is trying so hard to be the good girl and still getting like,

00:53:23.140 you know, 1.00

00:53:23.860 reprimanded for it because the principal is an asshole, 1.00

00:53:26.500 but like, 1.00

00:53:27.460 but Sheila was sort of like the bad girl who got distraught.

00:53:30.900 What,

00:53:31.340 what,

00:53:31.600 what was he not after you about Armin Shimmerman?

00:53:37.160 I just,

00:53:37.800 I think it's just funny that like,

00:53:39.340 it kind of brings that story of be good,

00:53:41.940 stay in school. 0.98

00:53:42.860 Don't go with random dudes from a like biker bar. 1.00

00:53:47.080 I mean, 1.00

00:53:47.640 that's just like good advice for anybody,

00:53:49.000 but you know,

00:53:49.480 I have always wanted to ask this question, and you're a teacher, so I can finally ask it in a place where you will be able to answer this in a place of authority.

00:53:57.520 I feel like I know what you're going to say. 1.00

00:53:58.780 What the fuck was going on with the goddamn principal? 0.99

00:54:02.840 Why did no teacher step in and was like, hmm, you seem to have a personal vendetta against a student. 1.00

00:54:10.420 What is going on?

00:54:11.760 Maybe we have a school board meeting, perhaps, or something.

00:54:14.780 on full display during school hard and every parent was like totally fine also how about the

00:54:20.820 fact that he gets eaten yeah fair enough spoiler alert in real life like that i think it's funny

00:54:28.180 i do think principals um i think it kind of again everything's exacerbated right everything is

00:54:34.400 bigger than life i think the notion that a principal doesn't like kids is actually very

00:54:39.560 common, common lore, common whatever. It's like the teacher that was always a crappy teacher.

00:54:44.860 They're the ones that get promoted. They're the ones that get to run the school because they

00:54:48.480 never liked kids to begin with. And they're just about discipline and they're controlling and

00:54:52.640 they're about structure. Right. So I think it kind of builds on that a little bit.

00:54:57.620 Can I ask a question? Because let's, let's be honest. Let's think about season one and season

00:55:02.360 two. What has Buffy done? Nothing. Buffy has gone to class. Buffy has gone to class. She went for 0.73

00:55:08.560 cheerleadering. She was helping out with the computer sciences. She's always in the library.

00:55:15.200 What has she actually done to make Principal Snyder hate her so much that he would say,

00:55:21.520 two students, which I'm setting up to fail, are going to put the entire parent-teacher

00:55:26.260 venture together? One that never comes to class and Buffy Summers, who has done nothing.

00:55:32.600 What is happening? Because somebody that is the, I think what he represents is the establishment.

00:55:37.920 I think what he represents sort of, you know, thematically is what we should have, what we should be, how people should act.

00:55:47.860 And I think Buffy with her essence, I don't think she has to do anything or say anything.

00:55:53.040 I think she has to walk into the room and the energy she has and brings to the table is, no, I'm not following these rules.

00:55:59.840 Right away, she doesn't want to follow her watcher. 0.55

00:56:02.240 She is the worst slayer compared to all slayers ever known because she doesn't follow the rules.

00:56:07.620 she doesn't do the right training she doesn't you know the book right he chucks the book with

00:56:13.000 and i think it's that it's as soon as she walks into the space she has power and he knows it and 0.86

00:56:19.740 i think weak men yes of strong women they try to do what do they try to do they try to criminalize

00:56:29.100 They try to, again, you know, stitch a scarlet letter on their chest and call it a day.

00:56:38.560 And they don't do anything but have intelligence and a smart mouth.

00:56:42.500 Yeah.

00:56:43.240 But also, are we going to talk about Kendra and Buffy?

00:56:47.160 Because Kendra is a huge thing.

00:56:48.180 It's the first player we've seen other than Buffy.

00:56:50.640 And she's a huge part of the season.

00:56:52.140 And also, just off what you just said, exactly. 0.68

00:56:55.300 She is the complete polar opposite of Buffy.

00:56:58.060 she is someone who was given to her watcher as a child raised just to be a slayer has no

00:57:02.840 distractions no friends no family she is just a slayer through and through her but like what

00:57:09.400 happens she but i also think too like what i want to talk about i don't so much her death but i want

00:57:15.440 to talk how buffy changed her and i think that's the most important part about it i think that's

00:57:20.340 what we should focus our energies don't make me check fight not exactly but not how she died

00:57:26.020 because her death tragic and and i think stephan mentioned this a while back of like buffy running

00:57:32.300 through the hallway in slow motion but i think what we can talk about is how buffy's in like

00:57:38.020 direct influence on her to be like own your power you are the slayer you're the one with the power

00:57:44.420 you make your own rules ultimately strong be strong exactly which she says at dawn too and

00:57:52.360 And I wish that she had, after she said, be strong as Dawn,

00:57:54.760 and it meant like, after I throw you off this tower,

00:57:57.920 be strong as you hit the ground.

00:57:59.960 Yeah.

00:58:00.500 Just know that you'll bounce.

00:58:02.840 Yeah.

00:58:03.260 No, but also- 0.99

00:58:04.080 You'll be dead before that. 0.93

00:58:05.180 But also, I was so confused by Kendra, 0.92

00:58:07.280 and I don't want to go too deep into it

00:58:08.580 because I know we're trying to wrap up soon,

00:58:09.940 but I was confused by Kendra because she was, yes,

00:58:12.260 as a child, she was given to her watcher.

00:58:14.680 Could you imagine if that was all for naught?

00:58:17.360 Because we learn in season seven that dozens,

00:58:20.440 if not hundreds of girls are rising because of the incident between um buffy's resurrection and

00:58:26.120 faith and and the scooby gang and i found it so interesting i'm like wait so was it always

00:58:31.240 predetermined and if so why wasn't buffy told about it well beforehand or the slayer before

00:58:37.160 her who was the slayer before we never know there's some holes in that for sure right calling issues

00:58:42.360 there's some issues there's a lot of watchers like what are they doing back for part two of season

00:58:46.680 two because we've talked about so little of the actual season like we need to talk about willow

00:58:51.260 and xander and oz oz oh my god oz we didn't even talk about the calendar i say we do a part two

00:58:58.020 because i think because i think and i'm gonna leave it on this and then i'm gonna go and we

00:59:04.320 will do a part two of season two we're gonna we're gonna have multiple parts of every season i can

00:59:08.060 feel it now because i think the important lesson she teaches kendra isn't just to be strong it's

00:59:13.960 to have good people chosen family in your world that's that's the difference between a regular

00:59:22.620 hero storyline of a captain american of this into that and all of those masculine focused heroes

00:59:29.160 where they do it on their own because they've made the right choice you know because they're stoic

00:59:33.780 and they're this and they're that the best part that this show does is it shows you that you are

00:59:40.080 strong not alone nobody nobody is better alone you are strong because you've surrounded yourself

00:59:47.960 because you love because you are loved and you depend on those people in your world and i think

00:59:53.760 that's the brilliance of the show i agree i agree 100 and they demonstrate that multiple times

00:59:59.100 they do and we'll talk about that in part two season two we will do that next week but thank

01:00:05.480 you everybody for coming out and listening to part one of season two and stephan can you tell

01:00:10.780 us where we can find you before we go yep sj maroney on instagram or r-w-a-c-p-o-d also on

01:00:17.180 instagram amazing i will put everything in the little bio and stew what about you you can find

01:00:22.840 me at jannikin j-a-j you can find me at jannikin j-a-n-i-k-o-n underscore on tiktok and instagram

01:00:32.040 come laugh with me every single day.

01:00:34.520 I'm recently in my slump era

01:00:36.340 because I have no thoughts or feelings

01:00:38.320 on what I'm going to create for content.

01:00:40.440 But you know what I did yesterday?

01:00:42.000 We're going to redo that poster right behind your head.

01:00:44.300 That's what we're going to do.

01:00:44.660 Yeah, we have to.

01:00:46.300 But I did paint my cabinets, guys. 1.00

01:00:48.420 The bare skin rug of me. 0.98

01:00:50.380 I'm going to put that on there.

01:00:51.540 Love that.

01:00:52.480 The next time it's going to be me like this.

01:00:54.980 I love it.

01:00:55.800 I'm into it.

01:00:56.400 Pause out.

01:00:57.760 Amazing.

01:00:58.380 Well, thank you guys so much for coming out.

01:01:00.080 And as for all of my listeners,

01:01:02.040 Thank you for hanging out with us, and I will see you next Tuesday.

01:01:05.120 Same bat time, same bat station. 0.70

01:01:07.720 Dismissed. 1.00

Unlearn16: Class is in Session - August 09, 2022

The One Where We Meet a Werewolf and Lose Our Souls (Part 1)

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