00:03:14.200she was pregnant and then no baby ever arrived and nobody wrote about what happened. They all
00:03:18.480just kind of started moving on as though nothing had ever happened, but obviously something had
00:03:22.080happened to her and she is going through it because she had Elizabeth, her daughter, Elizabeth.
00:03:27.580Two months later, she was pregnant again, like the hormones coursing through this woman's body.0.52
00:03:32.660Just bear that in mind for all of her behavior moving forward through this saga. Because remember,0.82
00:03:37.820This is the same time period as I guess one generation earlier from her was Juana of Castile, who was the sister of Catherine of Aragon. And she went through it as well, vis-a-vis pregnancy, childbirth, emotions, and she was called insane and locked up.
00:03:56.200So there's people around who don't really understand the emotions of a woman who has just either given birth or just had a pregnancy that did not result in the living child.
00:04:10.340And they were not giving a lot of empathy to Anne Boleyn or anyone.
00:04:40.760Ultimately, she did not give birth to the son at this point that Henry was wanting.
00:04:44.660And he straight up told her that like if he had to do this all again, like the years on courtship, the letters to the Pope and stuff, he's like, I wouldn't have.
00:06:47.880And so his behavior at this point is similar to how he was with Catherine of Aragon towards the end of their marriage, where he's just kind of like, I'm the king, I'm the boss.
00:06:58.340And part of this also is what drew him to Anne in the first place was just her like French ways, her beret, her baguette, her bicycle.
00:07:07.520and then also the fact that she was hashtag not like other girls trademark that she spoke her
00:07:14.840mind like that she had seen and she'd grown up around Margaret of Austria and Margaret of Angelo
00:07:18.760and Louise of Savoy and like she saw women being powerful even within her own house like her
00:07:24.480grandmother Margaret Butler her mother Elizabeth Howard like she stood up for herself in a way
00:07:28.840that other women didn't like we saw that back with her first when she was engaged to Percy
00:07:35.080Jackson and the Olympians like she was not doing it like anybody else and Henry thought that was
00:07:40.260cool that was great but the concept of not just being like a wife in this era but being the queen
00:07:47.080it's like well now you need to be very demure very mindful and she's like that's not the girl
00:07:51.880you married babe like why why would you expect my personality to change and it didn't and that
00:07:57.920annoyed him so this relationship is two very strong willed people with really big personalities
00:08:07.600and we don't know the ins and outs of it because nobody knows the ins and outs of somebody else's
00:08:13.560relationship but what people who saw them saw is that they were like passionate like there was
00:08:18.240times where they were like so into each other like still and then there are times when they
00:08:22.480were screaming yelling at each other and there's times that henry's like ignoring her like they
00:08:26.320were just, it was a volatile relationship between two volatile people in a really, really stressful
00:08:31.640situation. But it was hard. Relationships are, guess what? Work. And meanwhile, so Henry VIII's
00:08:41.420former mistress was Anne's older sister, Mary Boleyn. So if we will recall, Mary Boleyn had,
00:08:49.620she was now widowed. Her husband had died from the sweating sickness the last time that rolled
00:08:55.220through town and she had, she was causing trouble. So for a while, it's like Mary Boleyn was the
00:09:01.620mistress of Penner the Eighth and George was like thriving as diplomat. And Anne was kind of like
00:09:05.980the other Boleyn girl. She was the black sheep of the Boleyn siblings. But now that's Mary Boleyn's0.99
00:09:11.460role because she had had a super secret, sexy marriage. She married for love. She, and we know1.00
00:09:19.900this because the guy she married her family would never have approved of her to marry the king
00:09:25.260probably would have had to have been involved because like she's the sister of the queen1.00
00:09:28.400nobody would have let her do this so she just ran off and did it she made this guy called
00:09:33.080william stafford and she didn't tell anybody because he wasn't rich he wasn't especially
00:09:38.720important enough like the boleyns whole deal was like every person every generation every sibling
00:09:44.240marries like a slightly more rich important person and she just married this like hot farmer guy
00:09:49.900But then eventually she became pregnant and so there was no hiding it. Her previous husband was long dead. So she had to reveal that she had married William Stafford. And this was such a scandal that she was in fact banished from royal court. And before this, she was one of her sister Anne Boleyn's besties. She was traveling around with her. I think she was one of the ladies in waiting or if not, she was effectively doing that.
00:10:14.160like she was there with her all the time and then suddenly it's just like you can't do this shit0.98
00:10:18.940like what are you doing she appealed interestingly to Thomas Cromwell who at this point was like0.96
00:10:25.520one of the important people in Anne Boleyn's household but he was also known as being sort
00:10:30.920of like a guy who maybe you could talk to who's maybe reasonable part of her letter to him is
00:10:35.620interesting because she was just like can we get past this can I come back to royal court etc etc
00:10:41.420But at the end of it, she said, defending the fact she'd married this hot farmer, she just said, I would rather beg my bread with him, the hot farmer, than to be the greatest queen christened. So it's low-key shade to Anne Boleyn. Like she's just saying, yeah, I married this farmer and I've kicked out of royal court, but at least I'm happy.
00:10:57.580so and she's also pregnant which is probably also distressing to anne because she'd been having
00:11:04.580these fertility issues and she knew amelyn knew like as soon as she had a son henry would just
00:11:11.820chill he would be okay with everything but it's just like it's fraught they're going through
00:11:16.260relationship woes and meanwhile they do have a daughter elizabeth who like any young royal
00:11:25.020princess of this era there's discussions about like who's she going to marry and henry is still
00:11:30.380in his like i love france era wearing his like oui oui bonjour i love the eiffel tower etc t-shirt
00:11:37.660and so they're like let's marry her to the french dauphin which is the heir to the throne in france
00:11:45.860the son of francis the king of france and his now late wife claude who anne had been friends with
00:11:55.020So some French people came to town to have some talks about like, let's like, what are we going to do here? And Anne was really into this because she likes the French and she also wants like a really good marriage for her daughter, you know, like looking out for the next generation.
00:12:08.880But the French, the talks did not go well because the ambassador, Anne felt, did not pay her the appropriate amount of respect for her being the queen. And he also suggested, he was like, what about Mary?
00:12:22.560So this is Henry VIII's first daughter, his daughter of Catherine of Aragon, Mary. She was Princess Mary. I think at this point now she's Lady Mary. So she was technically illegitimate because Henry said that the marriage between him and Catherine of Aragon was illegitimate.
00:12:39.900But everyone, not everyone, but like a lot of people, clearly the French country, still saw her as being maybe legitimate and presumably she would be the heir to the throne.
00:12:52.620And so the France was like, yeah, we want to marry our Delphine to the heir to the throne, not to this like little younger sister who's like, there's questions about like, is Elizabeth legitimate or not?0.93
00:13:02.200And the questions that remember last time Henry passed like various laws and ordinances being like, you can't talk shit about me or my wife.
00:13:08.860but it's like he people who thought that his marriage to Catherine of Aragon was legitimate
00:13:17.500then would not accept his marriage to Anne Boleyn because Catherine of Aragon was still alive
00:13:21.660so this would maybe make if his marriage to Anne was illegitimate then Elizabeth was illegitimate
00:13:28.380and Francis basically like this is complicated and let's just marry Mary and also she was closer
00:13:34.580age to the prospective husband. So then Henry's like, okay, well, what if Elizabeth marries one
00:13:40.600of the younger princes and Mary gets the older prince? And Anne was just like, how dare you?
00:13:45.940Like our daughter is important. And like, if France is seeing Mary as the heir to the throne
00:13:51.560and more important than Elizabeth, and like, what does that say about Anne? What does that say about
00:13:55.140this whole situation? Like it's all a house of lies. Like they were really doing a lot of,
00:14:02.040or Henry was doing a lot of sort of top down being like, here's what's happening and everyone
00:14:05.700has to agree with it type of behavior. And then when people didn't agree with it, then he got
00:14:13.400mad about it. And, but he wasn't getting in trouble. It's like, Anne's going to get in trouble.
00:14:17.860I will say at this point, you know, they have this volatile relationship, but Henry did have her back
00:14:23.740at this point because he continued to pursue more legislation, commanding obedience to Anne
00:14:31.840from their subjects um that everybody had to if they were called upon they had to say an oath
00:14:37.400like I believe Henry's the king and I and Ann is his wife and like sure thing which is also
00:14:43.540there's a point that was made by Amy Laisons in her biography about to just like the poor0.95
00:14:50.580working farmer type people in random villages like they don't give a shit who the queen is0.95
00:14:57.760really they just know like that's the person next to the king so they're like how dare you like this0.95
00:15:02.660is the queen like i think at the one point he's trying to just like force everybody to accept this
00:15:08.100what he thought was the truth now and everyone is just kind of like sir we see the truth
00:15:12.400but also the more he kind of forced this maybe that kind of kept the gossip going about like
00:15:18.940is she really the queen like if she is then why does he have to keep passing these laws
00:15:23.900meanwhile he keeps showing clues and hints that he's like still into her he still committed to
00:15:31.760this relationship he kept granting her more lands and when she was given lands like to
00:15:36.600be in charge of like that gets her income her own independent income meanwhile she is going
00:15:43.400through it and boleyn is continues to display what people would call like erratic behavior in public0.54
00:15:51.360Like she is everything, everything about her life is like really, really fucking stressful right now. And part of her alleged erratic behavior is that there's a banquet at this one point and she like confessed to another guest that she's like worried that Henry is looking another way.0.51
00:16:11.040like she has like marital insecurities she burst into seemingly random laughter where it's like
00:16:17.280some people just don't understand what somebody's up to but also she's just like she's at a heightened
00:16:23.620emotions type moment here she had an argument with her uncle who is thomas howard the duke of
00:16:30.820norfolk who is going to become an increasingly important person in this podcast season as well
00:16:37.380as in court. At this point, he was her uncle, Thomas. This is like the sixth Thomas in the
00:16:45.940story. But he was the third most influential person at royal court. Like Henry is the first
00:16:51.740most influential. Cromwell is second and Norfolk is third. And that's her uncle on the Howard side,
00:16:56.800like her mother's side. But she was just like, how fucking dare you? She said to him, not those0.99
00:17:01.800where it's with that vibe which shows that like he was being a nightmare which he was probably but
00:17:10.120also for her to speak like that to him like in terms of who are the most important people it's
00:17:15.620like Henry Cromwell Norfolk like she's not up there because she's a woman like she is not as
00:17:22.540powerful or high up there as Norfolk and to speak to him that way it's kind of like watch yourself
00:17:28.020sort of situation so was she overstepping did she think she was more powerful than she was
00:17:33.180was she overly confident or was she just like losing it or i would suggest all three so part
00:17:39.000of this is her spirituality which we're going to get into but part of it potentially is like
00:17:47.620henry believed so firmly that like he god had chosen him to be king through the like royal
00:17:53.520bloodline even though as we talked about in previous episodes it was just because the french
00:17:58.260queen um got horny for her welsh stable man but henry's just like i'm here for god reasons and so
00:18:06.200and i think part of this like she had a really literal and as did many people in this this era
00:18:11.640a really literal literal understanding of religion and spirituality so she might have seen her role
00:18:18.100it's like if god put him on the throne and he chose me then like she's supposed to be there
00:18:23.420Like she's there for some godly reason. And maybe her role was to help save the country from religion problems from kind of the Catholic church at this time, which was just kind of like Christianity because there hadn't yet been a schism in England.
00:18:41.140was you know there's a lot of people who were rich people could pay for indulgences and the0.93
00:18:47.660churches were like getting lots of money and they were kind of getting up to some shit and she had
00:18:53.840had this sort of reformation minded thinking process she'd been reading a lot of books and0.96
00:19:00.460even all the way back to her days with Margaret of Austria like she had been seeing that this
00:19:05.540sort of reform religion was was taking off in various other countries the difference is in
00:19:11.460other countries like where Martin Luther is getting down in his place like it's like a bottom
00:19:17.220up revolution it's like a revolution of the people the people are like we're tired of these like
00:19:23.680wealthy bishops and popes and whatever like taking all this money and just like throwing
00:19:29.420debauched parties while we're all poor and we just want to have our relationship with God without
00:19:34.100having to like pay these people is kind of where the rebellion is coming from the reformation and
00:19:39.320other parts of europe in england it was more like henry being like maybe i should do this top down
00:19:47.400so there's that's not how it was working in other places the reformation type vibes had begun in
00:19:56.420england starting around 1534 henry had declared himself the supreme head of the church of england
00:20:03.660he forced religious establishments to swear a new oath to him as their new spiritual leader so he's
00:20:09.920just being like guess what we're doing reformation but king style like not like of the people i'm
00:20:17.140making so many hand gestures you can't see i'm going like hand down up like not from the people
00:20:22.040but like top down so instead of what some other countries are suggesting to do which is just kind
00:20:28.440of like, let's just stop giving all these money and stuff to these like debauched bishops,
00:20:34.760archbishops, and et cetera. And let's take that money and redistribute it to the poor.0.60
00:20:38.400Henry's like, what if we take that money and redistribute it to me and make me more rich?
00:20:43.200And what if I take over the monasteries and now I have more homes and let's just do that.
00:20:50.240So that's what he was up to. Sir Thomas More, who came on the scene, I think in the previous episode,
00:20:57.820refused to take the oath of like, Henry is my guy. He's a spiritual leader. He was in fact,
00:21:04.280sent to the Tower of London, put on trial, executed, and I believe later on became a saint.
00:21:10.980So there's one less Thomas in the story, but Thomas Carmel is still on the scene.
00:21:14.840And he oversaw what they called an inspection of monasteries and nunneries, which was looking for,
00:21:22.540We talked about this a few episodes ago in the episode about queer Tudor era, but part of what they claimed to be doing was looking for like same sex, sex happening between men and monasteries and women and nunneries.0.97
00:21:37.820They're saying just like, everyone's just fucking like nobody's actually Christian.0.99
00:21:42.580Like they're all just like taking money and having orgies.0.99
00:21:46.640So we should take their buildings and possessions and give those to the king.
00:21:50.880there's a lot of pushback against this lots and lots and lots of monks and other religious type
00:21:57.760people were executed for not taking this oath for not handing their stuff over and the executions
00:22:02.900were gruesome it was like a real and they were done that way just to sort of send a message to
00:22:08.380everybody just like take this vow change your religion to be like henry religion or like die
00:22:16.040gruesomely at this point we have a still pretty new pope before we clement for a long time r.i.p
00:22:23.540to giulio de medici we got a new pope his name is paul and he teamed up with charles the holy
00:22:32.800roman emperor against henry because guess what they're all catholic and they're like what is
00:22:38.060this guy doing in england like this is henry is like i don't know if he's directly saying this i
00:22:45.760don't want to say that he said this but some of his guys were being like the pope is the devil
00:22:49.540incarnate like they're just badmuffing the pope francis over in france like he joined in too he's0.99
00:22:56.100just like henry is fucking gross like he's executing all these people in these gruesome0.99
00:23:00.080ways he's like taking over all these monasteries and abbeys like this this sucks like what's he up0.99
00:23:05.580to and anne our main character is living through all this and she's got all these spiritual
00:23:12.820beliefs and so she's we don't know exactly what she thought about anything because we don't have
00:23:19.580her diaries but like of all the stuff that she read of all the stuff that she like people the0.99
00:23:24.880sorts of people that she funded we'll talk about in a minute like this was not her shit she was0.96
00:23:29.580not like yes let's take money and like have a party palace in in the monasteries like those0.99
00:23:35.760people were up to no good like i think she's just like what the fuck is he doing0.86
00:23:39.860and she is also concerned because henry like her she's in this volatile toxic relationship0.84
00:23:47.620and sometimes you know henry loved when she used to make jokes and whatever and now she makes jokes
00:23:53.380and he's just like are you cheating on me so she's just like is he joking is he testing me like what
00:23:59.020is happening like it's a textbook abusive relationship she just never knew when she
00:24:03.700said a thing that was going to upset him so yet another French ambassador she spoke to perhaps a
00:24:10.240bit too much but she's just like flailing around she's just telling anybody she sees like these0.53
00:24:15.280are my concerns and she also she's confining in French people because she's kind of like maybe0.62
00:24:19.760that's like France will have my back like I'm basically French the French people help me out
00:24:25.460so she told the French ambassador that she was feeling like Henry was suspicious of her but he
00:24:31.120didn't say of what. Potentially at around this time, she might have made some sort of like
00:24:37.040flirtatious joke that Henry misinterpreted. But I don't think he would have been mad about that
00:24:44.440when he wasn't already kind of annoyed with her about other things. I do want to say that she did
00:24:49.160have people to talk to. She had various spiritual advisors. Like she was a very profoundly religious
00:24:55.840Christian person. And so she would have been, you know, making confessions and talking to her
00:25:00.740spiritual advisors and it's only she had some people to talk to. So at this point, Henry VIII
00:25:08.820began a flirtation with one of Anne's ladies-in-waiting. We only know it's someone aka
00:25:14.420Madge Shelton. And so there was two ladies-in-waiting. There was Mary Shelton and there was Margaret1.00
00:25:21.580Shelton. And at this time, Madge could have been a nickname for either of those. So we're not sure
00:25:26.520which one it was but this is also anne's cousin so he's just like loves a relationship that requires
00:25:33.020a dispensation but he was almost definitely not fucking mad shelton because he wanted to have a
00:25:39.920child with anne he needed to have this son with her to be the like legitimate heir to the throne0.71
00:25:44.540like he an illegitimate child at this time would have just been really inconvenient for him it
00:25:50.200would have also sort of undermined his whole thing where he's just like i love anne boleyn so much
00:25:53.980Like, this is why I had to like change the religion and everything. So he's flirting with Madge, but I think that might be all that was happening. So, and you know what, like when I, when I talked to my talk therapist and I feel like a lot of therapy people say this, it's like, well, what do you have control over in this situation? Like there's so much happening around you that is just like, it's just there and you can worry about it and you can stress about it, but just like, you can feel some like the ground under your feet when you're like, well, what can I control?
00:26:23.980And what Anne Kekuchel was her queenly power and what could she do with it? And she really seems to be looking to her various role models. We talked about in Anne Boleyn, part one. We've got, so around her household, not royal, but like her grandmother, Margaret Butler, who just like queen shit type vibes.
00:26:45.180Then she saw Margaret of Austria, who is independent woman, don't need no man.1.00
00:27:05.280So she became the patron of various scholars and universities.
00:27:09.280um she even arranged some jobs for some of these graduates to get them jobs within her household
00:27:15.120like she was and the people who she's supporting are like reformation type people so this is how
00:27:20.100you see like this is what she's into so she's just like i have this not as much power as maybe
00:27:26.480would have been helpful but she has some power she's some privilege and she's just like i'm
00:27:30.420gonna give back like this like right away she's just like the vibes are a bit like miss rachel
00:27:36.600the children's entertainer who's just like i have a voice people listen to i'm going to use this to
00:27:41.600help people who need that help so during all this time as well like as much as she like tried to use
00:27:49.340her french connections to try and figure out this whole elizabeth marrying a french prince thing0.97
00:27:53.900it all fell apart because francis was as i mentioned before mad about henry being a dick
00:28:02.640to the pope in fact francis the king of france made a like a public statement where he's just0.99
00:28:08.640like i don't fuck with england and boleyn sucks like he mentioned her specifically and that0.97
00:28:15.020probably hurt her because they were kind of friends they kind of knew each other but now0.99
00:28:18.940we're in the summer of 1535 and every summer henry and anne go for their summer progress which is
00:28:24.960just kind of their little like taking their vw van and just like driving around the country and
00:28:30.380visiting various wealthy other people's houses and all these different towns and villages and
00:28:36.560everyone can see and be seen. And they're still doing this. And this era, they were both described
00:28:42.320as being merry. So in this tumultuous relationship, they seem to be having a nicer time than other
00:28:50.380times now. And this is where it was during this progress where they stopped at a place called
00:28:54.840Wolf Hall, the title of the Hilary Mantel book and miniseries. And this is famously a property
00:29:02.700in the people who lived there where the Seymour family, as you might recall, one of Anne's ladies
00:29:08.380in waiting was her distant cousin, Jane Seymour. Jane Seymour may or may not have been at Wolf
00:29:14.120Hall when they stopped by there. We're going to talk in a later episode about what went down
00:29:17.940at Wolf Hall. But the good news that perhaps this is why Anne and Henry are getting along a bit
00:29:25.180better is she was finally pregnant again. And like she got pregnant two months after, like she got0.98
00:29:30.860pregnant right away when they first got married. Had a baby, got pregnant two months later. And
00:29:35.120then it's been like, I feel like nine or 10 months before she was pregnant again. So it's probably0.82
00:29:38.960part of what's weighing on her as well. And so a bit more about her reformist views. So
00:29:47.360she didn't, we know that she did not like Henry's plan to seize the property of the monasteries
00:29:54.500that he was closing. She asked her minister, her like, she had all these spiritual advisors and
00:30:00.260she's like, could you give sort of like a subtextual sermon at church that Henry will hear
00:30:06.160That'll maybe make him change his mind. Like you make a sermon that's about like, maybe don't keep the money for yourself, but maybe use it to fund like education and charity. She sort of blamed Cromwell.
00:30:20.980So at this point, Anne and Cromwell were, and this is if you watch or read Wolf Hall, like you see about Anne and Cromwell and their relationship, but they were for a while, you know, working together towards the same goals.
00:30:35.080But at this point, Cromwell was just saying yes to whatever insane thing Henry wanted to do, because that's how you stay alive.
00:32:41.900she'd long had people who supported her
00:32:44.120and especially people who supported like the Pope
00:32:47.140and like the older Catholic religion, they had long supported her. And they like, now that she
00:32:53.640was dead, they all regrouped around Mary, who is now like 14, 15 years old. And Anne Boleyn is not
00:33:00.780a monster. She reached out to Mary to be like, Hey, I'm so sorry. Your mom is dead.
00:33:07.960Like I'm your stepmother. Maybe we could connect. And she had for a while, try to,
00:33:12.580to reconcile with Mary although she had also been worried about the support that Mary had
00:33:17.200and she's had various different things she's done some of the later people in the story are
00:33:23.100credited for like finally getting Mary back in the family fold and for helping mend things with him
00:33:29.480with her and Henry and at this point did try although she also still going through it pregnant
00:33:37.600um all the anxieties i've talked about before and then she found jane seymour sitting on henry's
00:33:44.660knee which is like gross like santa claus vibes to me personally but she kind of understandably
00:33:53.760freaked out about this because henry had when he was with catherine aragon he had had other
00:34:00.880relationships not as many as you might think but some and Catherine put up with it and Anne Boleyn
00:34:07.660had seen Claude when she's in France like Claude put up with her husband having affairs but Anne0.99
00:34:12.620Boleyn in this marriage like her and Henry it's just like he needs to fuck only me like the whole0.96
00:34:19.320point of them getting together was he like couldn't be without her like he had to be around her all1.00
00:34:24.080the time and if he was going to be getting anyone pregnant it had better be her although she was
00:34:28.540pregnant and at this time it was thought that pregnant women shouldn't usually have sex with
00:34:33.160pregnant women because it might endanger the fetus so maybe Henry was looking for someone else
00:34:36.780all I'm trying to say is like Anne Boleyn was not down with Henry having affairs and maybe
00:34:44.100like this is partially just their volatile relationship etc the love bombing he had done
00:34:49.200via letter for so many years saying like you're my one and only but also part of it is just she
00:34:53.680wasn't raised royal. Like she wasn't raised to expect, yeah, your husband's probably going to
00:34:58.640have some lovers. Don't worry about it. And she was not cool with it. And she was in a highly
00:35:04.020emotional state constantly, it seems like. So we're going kind of day by day. Catherine died
00:35:09.920January 7th. A week later, the yellow party. And then a couple weeks later, January 24th,0.96
00:35:15.700there was a big jousting party and Henry was thrown off of his horse. So he was wearing full
00:35:21.700armor he's sort of his horse in his armor if you've ever seen henry the eight's armor by the
00:35:26.180way i saw it was on display at the national portrait gallery a few years ago and i find it0.54
00:35:32.380hilarious because the like penis area of the armor is like huge it's just like gotta have room for0.98
00:35:38.580this big erect dick because it's like pointing upwards that part of the armor the armor is i0.98
00:35:44.240think on display at the tower of london usually and when you see it you can't not gawk at how0.99
00:35:50.280preposterous it looks anyway so he was wearing out not that armor because that would have gotten
00:35:54.220smushed but some of his armor wearing his armor pinned under his horse like this is all detrimental
00:35:59.900and causing various injuries and he was in fact unconscious for two hours which back then is just
00:36:06.680like medical care being what it was um literal belief in god being what it was this is just like
00:36:14.340everyone's kind of like this guy's gonna die basically and if he dies then like who's gonna
00:36:20.180be the heir like he had already said Anne Boleyn will be the regent for our children so it's like
00:36:25.180does that mean Elizabeth this like little toddler is gonna be the queen with Anne as regent or it
00:36:31.560seems more likely like Mary this like teenage person with a lot of support will she be or Anne
00:36:37.060Boleyn is still pregnant at this point so if she had a child would that be the king like this would
00:36:40.860have caused a wild succession crisis but he woke back up um and there are those who theorize that
00:36:50.560his behavior after this point are similar to people who have that football brain injury thing
00:36:55.080cte what can make you um bring out some parts of your personality or like make you more violent
00:37:01.860and stuff or more unstable like potentially so i'm just saying that that's maybe a thing that
00:37:08.180happened but he almost died and then didn't die and Anne was informed of the injury by her uncle
00:37:16.700Norfolk and apparently he told her in some sort of like not in some sort of very upsetting way
00:37:23.120which I don't know how you can say this news in not upsetting ways like hey your husband Henry
00:37:27.940the Aids just got like pinned under his horse and he's been unconscious for two hours like
00:37:32.000he's probably dead like it's pretty shocking news to receive anyway he woke up
00:37:38.180And this is kind of a pivot point, sort of.
00:37:44.540So Chapuis, Eustace Chapuis, like our man on the scene, my guy, like me, if I was there, he's got so many people.
00:37:54.680He's got so many informants, every house.
00:37:56.420He's got like servants, like he's getting information from everybody.
00:37:58.860And I love this like spy network he's got of just gossip.
00:38:02.600So he heard, friend of a friend, Henry had told someone.
00:38:08.180But he, Henry had said that the marriage to Anne Boleyn was because he'd been seduced by witchcraft and therefore the marriage was illegitimate. And now that Catherine was dead, he could marry again, but like a fresh start with some new other person.
00:38:24.680now we're going to talk about this not in this episode but like in the next episode which is
00:38:30.840kind of like Anne Boleyn's life after life how her legend kind of grew there's certainly some
00:38:39.660people who talk about Anne Boleyn having been accused of witchcraft but this is the only
00:38:46.820mention that I found from her actual life about it which is just Henry was like I think it was
00:38:51.900witchcraft that that she seduced me like sir no i think it was like you and your like love bombing0.97
00:39:00.540like abusive like unrelenting stalker ways but anyway even if she did seduce him with witchcraft0.87
00:39:08.040that was not an indictable offense at this time nor was it an offense you could be killed for
00:39:13.880and we're going to talk more about witchcraft in two weeks time anyway i just wanted to mention
00:39:20.160he did say that because the witchcraft thing we're gonna we're gonna wrap around back to that
00:39:24.640later on so everything's happening really quickly January 29th Catherine of Aragon is interred she
00:39:32.660is buried and that same day Anne had a miscarriage so this child it was probably about 15 weeks
00:39:40.180along and allegedly you could tell from the miscarriage that this is probably going to be
00:39:47.240a boy and so extra devastating actually a little myth busting there was one record that kind of
00:39:55.500people really picked up on that was written much later saying that there's some sort of like
00:40:00.140deformation to this fetus that and that was a hint that like the marriage was doomed or something or
00:40:06.660anyway the person who wrote that to not see what the result of the miscarriage nobody who was there
00:40:15.080said anything like that. So just myth busting that as well. She just miscarried. It fucking
00:40:20.280sucks. It sucks no matter who you are. And in her situation, it sucks in some1.00
00:40:26.020other special ways because this child was really important to her and Henry.
00:40:34.720And this is a sweet detail. And apparently the women who were with her, the maids,
00:40:39.960they wept and she comforted them telling them like you know I'm gonna conceive again soon
00:40:45.400and apparently she told them a child conceived now that Catherine was dead wouldn't have any
00:40:51.440taint of illegitimacy to them so maybe maybe it'll all be fine like her comforting them is just
00:40:57.700it shows the sort of person she was you know even in the state of like grief and terror that she's
00:41:05.300And she was seen as a figure of mercy and intercession because word had spread that she'd like to give out to charity, that she was supporting certain scholars and universities.
00:41:20.340So when she was on her summer progresses, she would distribute clothing to the poor.
00:41:25.020she gave out alms which is like money to the poor there was a guy who wrote a study on kind of like
00:41:31.580the effects of poverty and dedicated it to her probably because she helped fund it or they just
00:41:37.580knew that she was into this kind of thing like she was using her new power and money for good
00:41:45.820and i think it's that sort of thing where like in terms of the literal belief in god and the devil
00:41:53.360and the afterlife and stuff she's demonstrating her you know christian ways like she's just like
00:41:59.520people henry might think maybe he wants to go to this marriage sometimes and people might think0.90
00:42:06.880that she's this whore and whatever and she's like well all i can do is just like do good0.90
00:42:10.400things like let's just go and support um causes the need support and i love that about her0.95
00:42:18.800so this miscarriage will happen January so two months later March Henry started um really
00:42:27.260showing favor towards the Seymour family Jane Seymour's family for instance um Cromwell had
00:42:34.540had rooms at Greenwich Palace and Henry took this away from him and let Jane Seymour's brother and
00:42:43.460his wife live there and the thing with these rooms is not just like why are you giving these rooms
00:42:47.900these people, but also these rooms could not have been closer to him. Like there's a private
00:42:52.180corridor that allowed them private access to the king. So like he wanted to have secret
00:42:56.180conversations with these people, apparently. Chapuis was sent a letter from kind of like
00:43:03.380the Catholic people who, you know, the people who supported Princess Mary, the people who had
00:43:09.540supported Catherine Aragon, the people who didn't like what Henry was doing in general. And they
00:43:14.420asked like, Chapuis, like, would you support Jane Seymour? Like if he was going to marry her and
00:43:19.900Chapuis was like, fuck yes. He's still to the last time he wrote about Anne Boleyn, he only ever called0.99
00:43:25.780her the concubine. So actually side note about uses Chapuis in his letters. So last time I was
00:43:32.420telling you about how I tried to go back to the original source to learn about that thing he said
00:43:37.440about smuggling messages in oranges, if you will recall. And I went back and I found what I
00:43:44.400just sort of quickly interpreted to be like, oh, this is a translation of his letters. I have since
00:43:48.520found out that in fact, what happened is Eustace Chapuis, like everybody's number one resource for
00:43:55.140what was happening in Tudor court at this time. He wrote so many letters, so much paperwork was
00:43:59.620left behind, but it's all in private collections and it's never been scanned and like made available
00:44:04.680to researchers. What researchers have been using this whole time, well, this whole time since
00:44:10.580the 1800s is some late 1800s Victorian men found his letters which are written in I would assume
00:44:19.960either Spanish or in Latin and in like olden times calligraphy like I would not personally
00:44:25.700be able to read them if I saw a scan of it but some Victorian guys who could read them
00:44:29.400summarized them and that's what we have so I would love to see it happen that the actual
00:44:39.260documents get actually scanned and an actual transcript of them get created
00:44:43.480for lots of scholars and for myself. So I can see how did he describe this orange
00:44:49.840hidden letter situation? What words did he use? Did the Victorians interpret it strangely?
00:44:56.480I can't stop thinking about smuggling a letter inside of an orange. So we'll see how that goes.
00:45:03.220anyway so Anne Boleyn had her various religious advisors um and she had she's looking for like
00:45:13.980reformation minded guys this is another reason why we know that this was what she was into
00:45:18.120religiously and so the guys that she got were sort of you know they give challenging provoking
00:45:24.580sermons and sometimes she would be like here's kind of what I want Henry to think can you do a
00:45:28.280sermon that says kind of this and so like stirring thoughts of reform among everybody and so she went
00:45:35.480back to this kind of habit where she's like henry doesn't talk to me um but but he listens to these
00:45:42.560sermons so part of what she's she's still just like oh my god this dissolution the monasteries
00:45:49.680business like she want she wanted it to be done in a more moderate way like sure shut down these
00:45:55.580like the monasteries, like take the property, like literally the building, take the things that0.92
00:46:01.940are in the building, like the jewels and whatever, but like use that to fund charity. Use that to
00:46:05.960fund the poor. Use it in like a Christian way. And Henry's like, or what about use it in a Henry way1.00
00:46:10.880and keep it all for myself? So she's still trying to like push this point to him. So she seemingly
00:46:18.240commissioned her guy to give a sermon that sort of vaguely, but pretty obviously compared Henry
00:46:24.460to this biblical king and Carmel to this like bed advisor in the Bible and compared Anne to this
00:46:30.760like good wife from the Bible. So it was a bit too far at this point. It was maybe sort of like
00:46:38.980Anne publicly scolding Henry, which it wasn't. It was just this guy giving a sermon that maybe
00:46:46.360compared directly to the situation going on. But Henry was already just like, he's like,
00:46:51.360I like this Jane Seymour. Anne is like, keeps pushing me on this point about the monasteries
00:46:58.000and just like, fuck this. So Henry is mad about this sermon. Cromwell is mad about this sermon.0.99
00:47:02.840The guy who gave the sermon was actually arrested and eventually set free. But this is just kind of
00:47:10.820like, here's what's going on. Like Anne is like, what can I control? What is in my power? And it's
00:47:14.720just kind of like, okay, clearly this isn't anymore the topics of sermons. Like she just
00:47:19.800cannot be seen as challenging him because he was working really hard to establish this top-down
00:47:24.000thing where he's the divine head of the church like divine like in the sense of god wants this
00:47:30.140and if his wife is seen to be like not supporting him 100 then that kind of devalues his point
00:47:36.480um there's a church service that came up at around this time so moundy thursday which is
00:47:43.580still a thing that they celebrate in Catholic churches um where important people wash the feet
00:47:50.320of beggars and Anne herself personally actually washed the feet of beggars so she's just like
00:47:55.720doing everything to like despite herself it's like I am a pious person um and then like this
00:48:04.140is where everything starts happening so quickly so Eustace Chapuis our boy was for the first time
00:48:11.480he had been on the scene for like a couple years and he was actually called in for his first
00:48:15.480to royal court like he was invited in person he'd been riding with these people and hearing spies
00:48:20.440say stuff about these people but he'd never actually seen Anne Boleyn in person until this
00:48:24.900moment and when he arrived because of course he accepted this invitation because he's not going
00:48:29.600to miss a party and there's like Boleyn family values like they're out to greet him like the
00:48:36.380Boleyns and other lords were like, oh my God, I used to Chapuis, welcome. Like they knew how
00:48:41.220important he was, how persuasive he was. And they knew that he was there. And he has allegiance to
00:48:48.980Charles, the Holy Roman Emperor. And so they kind of felt like, okay, well, now that Catherine is
00:48:53.020dead, like maybe the Holy Roman Emperor will like decide to fuck with us, England again.0.97
00:48:58.920and maybe Chapuis can help facilitate that so he met with them um and he was just like this is0.99
00:49:10.280great but like I don't actually want to run into the concubine aka Anne Boleyn aka the queen
00:49:14.720and they're like well you can't really miss her because we're all going to this church service0.99
00:49:18.860together and she was there and then he bowed to her um which is just kind of like yeah bitch like0.95
00:49:25.060yeah you did he is so anti-Anne but like guess what she's still the queen and you're still the0.86
00:49:31.080ambassador and she was like doing a full like charm offensive just like trying to like win him
00:49:37.560over she invited him to come dine with her but he was like uh no thanks I will eat elsewhere thank
00:49:43.520you so much so we're into April and this all kind of kicked off in January right so it's like April
00:49:50.460know. Carmel, Thomas Carmel calls in sick to work that day. He was supposed to go to banquet or
00:49:56.660something, but actually he just like, was like, sorry, I can't come. Like I'm going to work from
00:50:00.380home today. In fact, what he was doing at home was preparing evidence that Henry had ordered him to
00:50:07.180do against Anne. This took him four days. And so there's so much that we don't know about what
00:50:15.180specifically happened but we know that kind of the people who are against anne all joined up
00:50:22.720by now so this is like her uncle norfolk who's just like hate him um the seymour family because
00:50:29.740they wanted jane to become the new queen um princess mary and her supporters formerly
00:50:35.120supporters of catherine aragon um this influential family the pole family were all involved
00:50:40.040cromwell had like he and anne had been like in locks up for a long time but he was more loyal
00:50:46.140to henry and like with the monasteries thing he was just like well henry was the creator of anne
00:50:49.920so i guess i do now too chapui is now part of this too and it's now just kind of like the anti
00:50:56.100anne boleyn avengers have assembled and they're just like this is happening so they put like
00:51:04.000cromwell put together this report of just like okay here's some like quote-unquote evidence
00:51:07.940against Anne but it's even Henry was like this is not enough like this is we need something more
00:51:12.640so he got Cromwell to go and investigate talk to some more alleged witnesses who had recently
00:51:20.500hosted her in their homes and so taking it back to Anne like this is all happening like Henry's
00:51:25.840always having meetings with advisors and stuff and sometimes there are some cute details about
00:51:29.180sometimes Anne would like hide behind a curtain and be like what are they talking about and
00:51:32.440sometimes Henry would hide behind a curtain and be like what's she talking about there's a lot of
00:51:35.380hiding behind curtains happening now. Maybe that's where Shakespeare got it from for Hamlet.
00:51:39.400So Anne would have known that like something was going down, but she did not know what it was yet.
00:51:47.980And she and Henry were making plans to take this trip and like all the plans were still happening
00:51:53.860for the trip. So she's just like, okay, like it seems like we're going through one of our like
00:51:58.320rough patches, me and Henry, but like, we'll see what happens. But she knew something was up.
00:52:02.580So on April 26th, she went to speak to her chaplain and she was just like, hey, I'm sure this is nothing. But in case something happens, like to me, I just want to make sure that Elizabeth is taken care of. So can you just like make sure everything is okay with her in case something happens to me? Thank you so much.
00:52:22.160so she she knew something was happening but she did not know what we're going to take a little
00:52:29.480short break right now and i do want to mention uh if you want to listen to this podcast without a
00:52:34.920commercial break in the middle you can join my patreon this is not the commercial this is just
00:52:39.380me talking um if you join my patreon which you can get to at patreon.com and foster writer you
00:52:45.260can pay one dollar a month and that means that you can get a special feed of this podcast without ads
00:52:51.100in the middle of it. But we're going to take a short break for ads right now. And I'll be right
00:52:57.560back. Today's episode is brought to you by Vinted. So where I live, summer is turning into fall,
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00:54:29.680You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole
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01:08:36.200It's just talking about like she was fucking these men and there's like times and dates.0.99
01:08:40.720And like she was at this castle with this guy on this day.0.99
01:08:44.960And it also says that she was plotting with them to like murder Henry.0.97
01:08:48.940and the dates like part of where this is absurd is that the dates it's like she fucked Henry0.82
01:08:55.380Norris on this day she fucked Mark Smeaton on this day but it's like the dates don't even match up
01:08:59.960with like where she was like she herself wasn't even in castles for most of these like the men
01:09:05.120also weren't there and a lot of these occasions because she was so frequently pregnant during the
01:09:11.220a thousand days that she was queen and we talked before about like how in this era like0.98
01:09:17.600it was tutors pregnant tutor women were not supposed to have sex with anyone so the like0.98
01:09:25.880that she would have even had sex when she was like pregnant anyway it's all ridiculous it's0.99
01:09:31.400all absurd it's like factually untrue and all of that being said like having intercourse with0.98
01:09:38.020the queen if she consented like if you had intercourse with the queen and she didn't0.92
01:09:43.400consent then that is rape but if the queen agreed to have sex with you that's not treason at this
01:09:49.340point so that's not even like they arrested her for all these things but it's like but that's not
01:09:52.420even against the law the only actual legal thing is that allegedly she was scheming with these guys
01:09:58.600to murder henry so that is the actual crime and all the sex stuff is just kind of to make her look0.99
01:10:04.520bad in addition. So the four men, not her brother, Norris, Bariton, Weston, and Smeaton, were all
01:10:11.660brought before a jury. And this jury included Anne's dad and also her uncle, Norfolk. So
01:10:19.740this just kind of shows like the dad being there is fucked up. But it also shows that just like0.99
01:10:29.900even her own close family members were like, we can't, we can't side with her. Like she is going
01:10:36.020down. We don't want to die. So anyway, Cromwell gave a speech being like, she did the shit. She
01:10:43.540fucked these guys. These guys fucked her. And so these four men were all condemned to death1.00
01:10:49.220at around the same time. Anne's marriage to Henry VIII was declared invalid for quote,
01:10:56.100luring the king under false pretenses. So that's sort of like witchcraft adjacent thing. So this
01:11:01.720suddenly Elizabeth is now illegitimate also. So May 15th, she stands on trial alongside her brother
01:11:09.860George. If you're wondering what did she wear? Well, a black velvet dress with a red damask
01:11:16.420petticoat and a cap on her head with a white and a black feather. An amazing look. Her jury was led0.93
01:11:23.900by her uncle, Norfolk, Darth Vader of this story. And also on the jury was her past love,
01:11:31.520Percy Jackson and the Olympians. So Percy had been sick for a while by now. He was like very
01:11:37.520unwell. Anyway, he's in the jury as well. So it's not an objective jury. So charges for now
01:11:45.240were included here that I didn't mention before, which included making fun of Henry's poetry,
01:11:50.120um emasculating him like making fun of his sexual prowess to other people like just
01:11:58.320anyway just it makes henry look really silly to be he's so thin-skinned that anyway these are now
01:12:08.100extra charges and she responded to all the charges and this reminds me of we did a series a while
01:12:14.260ago about marie antoinette and she was put on trial for like equivalently fake adultery type
01:12:20.120charges and just like marie antoinette she responded to the charges and she did really
01:12:24.840well she equipped herself really well like she was well spoken she was calm she's just like this0.99
01:12:29.220is bullshit like what the fuck but like everybody knew the result was not in question she was1.00
01:12:37.560condemned to death. Percy Jackson, who was, as I mentioned, really sick. He collapsed when the1.00
01:12:46.140verdict was read and he had to be carried out, which it's like, oh, was he so upset? Maybe. Yeah,
01:12:50.600they were in love with each other, but also he was just like profoundly ill and died soon after.
01:12:55.540George Boleyn, her brother, he also equipped himself really well. He told some good jokes
01:13:02.120while on the stand. We'll talk about him and his wife, Jane, in a later episode that we're doing
01:13:07.500about George and Jane Boleyn because those are some interesting people. Anyway, he was found
01:13:11.680guilty as well. But still, it's like she was found guilty. She was condemned to death. But there's
01:13:16.200still, Anne was like, well, maybe I could just retire to a nunnery. Maybe I could just live a
01:13:22.440quiet life away from everybody. Maybe that's a possibility. On May 17th, her brother George,
01:13:29.180as well as Henry Norris, Mark Smeaton, Francis Weston, and William Birch were all executed
01:13:33.320on Tower Hill. Chapuis reported that Anne, who was there at the Tower of London, was forced to watch
01:13:41.000from her window. And so they all were executed and she was like, pretty sure she was going to
01:13:48.680die the next day, which is May 18th. So she summoned one of her spiritual advisors, John
01:13:54.980Skip, who I believe is the same guy who gave the like sermon a bit ago that got them both in
01:13:59.840trouble. And she was like, please come sit with me in prayer. And this is where it is notable.
01:14:05.400And this was mentioned in the Amy Lyson's biography that her spiritual advisors did not
01:14:13.100abandon her. All the religious members of her household who spoke to her, who had spoken to
01:14:18.820her at length, who knew what she was really like, who had heard her confessions, things like that,
01:14:23.280they knew her better than anyone. And they stood with her because they knew her heart. They knew
01:14:28.960what she was like. They knew that this was some bullshit. The people who jumped ship were the1.00
01:14:33.780people who served her in other capacities, you know, like people who had been like her accountant
01:14:38.040or like her kitchen people or whatever, like people who had schemed to get positions through
01:14:43.500the Tudor royal court were quick to shift their allegiance, you know, to save themselves when it
01:14:49.660became clear that her side was losing. And in fact, many of these, many of her household staff
01:14:54.900moved on to the household of Jane Seymour later on. But we'll talk about that in a Jane Seymour
01:15:01.820episode later on. Anne did not die on May 18th of any reason other than just this special
01:15:08.140French executioner had not yet arrived. She's like, I guess I'm alive for like one more night.
01:15:15.140So she made her final confession that evening. And her final words were reported. And she said,
01:15:22.180Mr. Kingston, who is the person she called to see her, one of her spiritual advisors, I believe,
01:15:26.480I hear say I shall not die before noon, and I am very sorry, therefore, for I thought to be dead
01:15:31.240by this time and past my pain. He told her it would not hurt because, you know, the executioner
01:15:37.340is really good. And she replied, I heard say the executioner was very good and I have a little neck.
01:15:42.300And she put her hand around it, laughing heartily. So Kingston related. He had seen
01:15:47.100many people executed and they had all been in great sorrow, but this is the first time he saw
01:15:51.880someone who has like joy and pleasure in death. But this is kind of a bit like Lady Jean Grey,
01:15:58.140if you know that story. It's like Anne knew she was going to die. She was like a really spiritual,
01:16:02.500really religious, really Christian person. And she knew her faith was strong. She knew she hadn't
01:16:07.240done anything wrong. And so she was just like, I'm going to die. I'm going to have a good death.
01:16:11.920And like, let's just do it. So at dawn on May 19th, Anne heard mass and dressed herself in a
01:16:20.140French gable hood and a gown of black or dark gray damask trimmed with ermine over a red
01:16:26.140kirtle. The constable of the tower led her on the short walk to the scaffold on Tower Green.
01:16:31.360She mounted the steps and looked down at the crowd, which included Cromwell and a few other
01:16:36.000people, but not most of her haters. They didn't want to watch this happen. So a few people who
01:16:41.920were there recorded what she was like, and it's, they say kind of different things, but it's like,
01:16:48.640yeah, she probably had a variety of different emotions. So one person said she looked very
01:16:51.960frequently behind her and looked very exhausted and amazed. Someone else said she looked feeble
01:16:58.180and half stupefied. So she was certainly looking back at her ladies and waiting. And so there's a0.99
01:17:04.840few versions of her final speech and the translations make some subtle differences,
01:17:10.020but basically I'm going to read it to you. This one translation from the Amy Lyson's book.
01:17:15.020good Christian people I have not come here to preach a sermon I've come here to die for according
01:17:20.600to the law and by the law I am judged to die and therefore I will speak nothing against it
01:17:24.880I am come hither to accuse no men nor to speak of that whereof I am accused and condemned to die
01:17:29.940but I pray God save the king and send him long to reign over you for a gentler nor a more merciful
01:17:35.720prince was there never and to me he was ever a good a gentle and sovereign lord and if any
01:17:42.200personal metal of my cause. I require them to judge the best. And thus I take my leave of the
01:17:47.260world and of you all. And I heartily desire you all to pray for me. And then in front of Cromwell
01:17:53.960and the rest of the crowd, she removed her cloak, tucked her hair under a cap and then knelt down
01:17:59.220in the straw. They put straw down for executions like this to like absorb the blood. One of her0.71
01:18:04.960ladies bound her eyes, the executioner, then with one stroke, the special French executioner.
01:18:10.700He had a sword, and that was the execution of Anne Boleyn. So her head was covered with a white cloth, and it was carried along with her body into the chapel of St. Peter ad vincula, where it was laid to rest.
01:18:26.320And this was unprecedented in English history. It was the first time that a queen had ever been executed. And this is the end of Anne Boleyn's life, but not the end of her story.
01:18:41.560Next week, I have a very special guest expert coming on to explain how and why so many people still know the story of Anne Boleyn, how her story continued on, and why she will always be famous.
01:18:56.720So that's next week we're going to talk about sort of the afterlife of Anne Boleyn.
01:19:00.900But I do want to catch you up on a few of the other people who've been in this story and what happened to them later on.
01:19:07.260Because some of them we're going to hear about in later future episodes of Vulgar History Tudor era, and some of them we're not.
01:19:13.160So Eustace Chapuis, we're going to be hearing from him.
01:19:16.900We're going to hear his bitchy letters in many upcoming episodes because he continued on as the official Spanish ambassador slash court gossip of the Tudor.
01:19:26.080Tudor royal court for another nine years.
01:19:29.360So we're going to be hearing from him a lot.
01:19:32.000Jane Parker, the wife of George Boleyn, Lady Rochford.
01:19:34.840We're going to hear later about her and more about George in their own episode.
01:19:42.220So she died seven years after this execution.
01:19:45.700Her daughter, she had a daughter, Catherine and a son called Henry.
01:19:50.320Her daughter, Catherine Carey, had a daughter named Latisse Knowles, who we have spoken about on the podcast before, who was like a pretty iconic it girl.
01:19:58.300And through them, through Catherine, then Latisse, and then their descendants, the Boleyn DNA continues on and could be found in actually the current British royal family, but not through the royals themselves.
01:20:12.660So Elizabeth Bowes Lyon, who is the mother of Queen Elizabeth II, was a descendant of Mary Boleyn.
01:20:20.380And so that means that Queen Elizabeth II, that means Charles, that means William and Harry and all their children, all the royals, have Boleyn blood through her.
01:20:31.360In fact, Prince William and Prince Harry and their children have even more Boleyn DNA on their side because their mother, Princess Diana, also descended from Mary Boleyn.
01:20:41.840And so Thomas Cromwell remained on as Henry's main guy, and we're going to hear more about him in later episodes, especially when we get to Anne of Cleves. Thomas Cranmer, we'll hear about him later. He's still stuck around. He is especially involved in the story of Mary I, when we get to that. Thomas Boleyn, Anne's dad.
01:21:04.260So he died three years after Anne and George's executions. And after the execution, he lived out in disgrace because his children had been found guilty of these crimes. And he was replaced in his role of Lord Privy Seal by Thomas Cromwell. And his wife, Elizabeth, Anne Boleyn's mom, she died shortly after that as well.
01:21:26.760So Thomas Howard, the Duke of Norfolk, a.k.a. Norfolk, a.k.a. the Darth Vader of the story, we'll hear about him in future episodes, just doing some real shitty stuff. He's going to especially show up in the Catherine Howard and Mary I episodes. Henry Percy, a.k.a. Percy Jackson and the Olympians.
01:21:43.680So he was really sick. He's sick even before he's on the jury. And he died one year after her
01:21:49.160execution. His wife, who if you'll recall, he didn't want to marry and she didn't want to marry
01:21:53.400him. And she tried to divorce him or have the marriage annulled. She lived another 36 years
01:21:58.360without him. Thomas Wyatt, poet, he lived for six more years. His son, Thomas Wyatt, the younger,
01:22:07.780is going to get up to some shit later on and then marry the first episodes. And actually,0.98
01:22:11.260it's interesting that the Boleyns live on through Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, through Princess Diana,
01:22:18.720but especially Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, because Thomas Wyatt's descendants include Wallace Simpson,
01:22:24.380the enemy of Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon. So next week, as I said, we're going to be getting into
01:22:31.260Anne Boleyn, like her story, her life has ended, but her story is not over. And we're going to
01:22:37.160talk more about her influence and her legacy next week with a very special guest,
01:22:42.200Anne Boleyn, expert. And actually, I want to mention too, if you're just on your feelings
01:22:46.860about Anne Boleyn and all of it, two different things. First of all, I have some merch in the
01:22:53.800store. We have a Vulgar History merch market, which you can get to at vulgarhistory.com
01:22:58.840slash store. And it's actually a little discount this weekend for an RIP Anne Boleyn sale. Not
01:23:05.020really that but it's kind of like a Tudor era sale so first of all we have a beautiful design
01:23:09.240by Karen Moynihan that shows the names of the six queens Henry VIII's six wives so it says like the
01:23:15.960the rhyme like divorce beheaded died divorce beheaded survived and that's kind of like0.94
01:23:19.820scratched out with their names to be like no like fuck that rhyme these are six women six interesting0.97
01:23:24.780people and these are their names there's a beautiful design the six queens design is0.98
01:23:29.220available at the merch store at vulgarhistory.com slash store. And then there's a brand new design
01:23:35.160that I was so mad about Henry VIII that I commissioned. Another friend of the podcast,
01:23:40.820another artist friend, Yann Yubiter, has designed this one. So it's an image of Catherine of Aragon
01:23:45.780and Anne Boleyn murdering Henry VIII. And it's in the style of, if you know the painting,
01:23:52.080Artemisia Gentileschi's Judith murdering Holofernes. It's in the manner of that. So it's like,
01:23:57.500And Anne Boleyn is like cutting off his head, but Catherine of Aragon is there supporting her. And there's also a monkey there because the most famous portrait of Catherine of Aragon has a monkey. And I wanted the two of them together because he fucked over a lot of people. He fucked over these two women in really similar ways. And often I think it's kind of like, are you team Catherine of Aragon or team Anne Boleyn? And I'm like, I'm team anyone except for Henry. And I would love these two to work together.
01:24:22.660anyway it's a gorgeous thing and it also do you remember when Anne Boleyn
01:24:25.560it seemed like she was gonna have a son and then she didn't and so they made the
01:24:29.520the medal the coin that says the most happy so it's like this picture is Catherine Aragon and
01:24:36.260Anne Boleyn cutting off Henry VIII's head with a monkey and it says the most happy and it just
01:24:42.640it's a really beautiful image and Jan Yipatera brought my vision to life gorgeously and you can
01:24:48.480get that on a t-shirt or a sticker or anything um also at a store vulgarhistory.com slash store
01:24:54.000which again is having a little sale this weekend although i will mention too if you go there and
01:24:59.260you're like oh shit the shipping is crazy um that store shipping is great if you're in the u.s if
01:25:05.180you live in any other country i have an alternate store at redbubble.com slash vulgarhistory0.98
01:25:10.020vulgarhistory.rubble.com just go to redbubble and look up vulgar history and all the same
01:25:15.880designs are there as well. And also if you really want to celebrate Anne Boleyn too, in a way that
01:25:23.540I also have. So we have a brand partner, which is Common Era Jewelry, which is a small woman-owned
01:25:29.800business. Again, there's not AI involved. Tori is the designer. She creates these beautiful designs
01:25:34.560herself based on women from history, including a beautiful Anne Boleyn pendant and an Anne Boleyn
01:25:40.080ring which you can get in gold or you can get a more affordable gold for may it's a beautiful
01:25:45.800tribute to one of the quote difficult women of history it's part of her quote difficult women
01:25:51.920collection it's like women who people have hated on but they were just cool people frankly if you
01:25:58.140want to get the anne boleyn pendant from common era with 15 off um use code vulgar 15 at your
01:26:04.340checkout or go to commonera.com slash vulgar 15. And yeah, next week we're back. Anne Boleyn
01:26:12.860month continues with a discussion of her legacy, her iconography, and why Anne Boleyn will always
01:26:19.280be famous. So until next time, my friends, keep your pants on and your tits out.0.99
01:26:27.540Vulgar History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Anne Foster. Editor is Christina0.99
01:26:32.640Lumagi. Theme music is by The Severn Duo. Vulgar History artwork by Karen Moynihan.
01:26:38.620Social media videos by Magdalena Denson. Transcripts of this podcast are available
01:26:43.060at vulgarhistory.com by Aveline Malek. You can get early ad-free episodes of Vulgar History by
01:26:48.640becoming a paid member of our Patreon at patreon.com slash annfosterwriter. Vulgar History
01:26:54.540merch is available at vulgarhistory.com slash store for Americans and vulgarhistory.redbubble.com
01:27:00.820for everyone else. Follow us on social media at vulgarhistorypod. Get in touch with me at
01:27:06.080vulgarhistorypod at gmail.com. For eight years, we've been asking the same question over and
01:27:13.480over again. How did this happen? My name's Mandy. And I'm Melissa, and we're the hosts of Moms and
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01:27:24.600are obsessed with mysteries. Each week, we do deep dives into fascinating true crime stories.
01:27:29.340We cover everything from infamous cases like Casey Anthony to the bizarre and complex crimes right here in our home state, like the shocking murder of FSU professor Dan Markell.
01:27:39.800We bring you the facts, but with warmth and width, you'd only get from two friends who have been hooked on mysteries since childhood.
01:27:45.700Join us for new episodes of Moms and Mysteries every Tuesday and Thursday.
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