00:04:30.780And so I'm forever grateful for that. And I began to research it and fell in love with this story about King William, Queen Luella. I had to write it.
00:04:45.460I think that's so fascinating that this is something that happened near where you live and it was something that you had never heard about.
00:05:36.540The kingdom of the happy land came about as formerly enslaved people left their plantation
00:05:44.100in Mississippi. And they believed that there was a promised land for them, that God had a land
00:05:53.240that was for them. They didn't know where it was though. And so their whole journey was a faith
00:06:00.820journey, basically. As they left Mississippi, they left with about 50 people. And during the
00:06:08.920time of emancipation, people think, oh, this was so great. The slaves are free. But what also
00:06:17.240happened with that freedom was that you left a lot of people without any place to stay. They didn't
00:06:25.220know where they were going to go, what was going to happen next. There was also a lot of fear
00:06:31.140involved with that. And so what began to happen for them as they journeyed through Alabama,
00:06:38.800Georgia, South Carolina to get to their promised land in North Carolina,
00:06:44.000they, about 200 people attached themselves to them. So by the time they reached the Appalachian
00:06:53.160mountains in North Carolina, they had like 200 and some people. And by the height of their
00:07:01.700kingdom, I believe there was over 400 people that had homes there and things like that.
00:07:08.060But the journey, it was like found family. And so that also inspired me. Just reading about that
00:07:17.820And learning about the conditions that people were dealing with during that time, if you've never researched that time, you just think, oh, okay, great.
00:07:28.720And yes, great, because they should have been free.
00:07:32.720But there was really nothing put in place to kind of help them with this new freedom that they had.
00:07:41.460And so they had to kind of learn as they go and figure their way out.
00:07:48.520And so along comes William and Luella.
00:07:51.520And at this time, they're not king and queen yet because they haven't yet found what will
00:07:59.360But they wanted to help people find their dignity and to find their happy place.
00:08:06.520And so the name of it, you mentioned in the book, and was this something you found from
00:08:10.200your research how they chose the name it was based on a song there was a song I believe it started
00:08:16.580based on that song and and because I can't go back in history and actually speak with them
00:08:22.760when I as I was researching the book I discovered this song that that was out during that time and
00:08:31.140it was called Happy Land. And it was, there is a happy land far, far away. And so as I began to
00:08:39.760look at this, because I wondered why would they call it the happy land? Now, this was a song that
00:08:46.200was not sung by the enslaved, though. This was a song they heard the slave owners and their family
00:08:54.460members singing. And so I imagine that it couldn't have been too happy for them to hear it.
00:09:02.500But as they were journeying, I believe that they were like, you know, now I understand that song
00:09:09.980because we're going and we're finding our happy land. And so that's how I wrote it in the book.
00:09:18.980So that's such a good example of what I imagine as you doing this detective work, almost trying
00:09:24.140to put together clues and figure out what happened. So what sources are there? What were
00:09:29.920you able to look at to find out what you were able to find out? There was, for one, I researched
00:09:37.100the people who sold them the land. Her name was Sarepta Davis. Her husband was General John Davis,
00:09:45.960who he had already passed away years before the people from the Kingdom of the Happy Land
00:09:51.860journeyed there, Sarepta Davis had all this land. And in researching it, I discovered that the minute
00:10:00.940emancipation occurred, all of the people who were enslaved on her land left. But she is described
00:10:10.220by everyone as this giving woman, this really nice woman. And as you imagine the fact that
00:10:20.520during this time, she would be willing to sell all this land to these Black people who showed up0.98
00:10:27.680on her door. Now, they provided a service for her first, but still, she didn't have to sell them the1.00
00:10:34.580land. So I believe the depiction of her as this nice, benevolent woman, and that's why I wrote
00:10:42.560her as that in the book. But I also wanted people to understand that, then why did all of her
00:10:49.940formerly enslaved people leave yeah and it is because there is something about being owned0.89
00:10:57.740no man or woman should ever be owned by someone else and that is why they couldn't stay on that
00:11:06.580land because they had to go out and seek their own freedom but that is why then other people
00:11:12.720would come and they basically took over the the land that that was left by formerly enslaved
00:11:19.160people, but they took it over as free people. And so one thing I researched was Sarepta Davis,
00:11:27.400and I got to understand her children and why, you know, because she had so many children,
00:11:34.680I want to say at least seven, and why none of those children, why didn't they want this land?
00:11:41.000And so I had to understand that. I researched by going to the deeds office in Hendersonville,
00:11:49.160Because in Hendersonville, there's actually the deeds that show that the people from the
00:11:55.660kingdom of the happy land bought this land.0.99
00:11:59.180During this time, of course, women could not sell land.0.99
00:12:03.780If you weren't married, you could not sell or buy land.
00:12:08.300And so you have to think, Sarepta Davis's husband had already passed away.
00:12:12.820So on the deed, it is her daughter's name and her daughter's husband's name of selling the land because, you know, she needed a husband in order to sell the land, which was what ended up happening with Queen Luella later on.
00:12:30.860As I don't want to I don't want to give that away because I don't want to I don't want to tell that that part.
00:12:38.040Like, we don't want to spoil the actual book.
00:12:39.700Correct. And there was actually a book that was written on the Kingdom of the Happy Land in 1950.
00:12:47.560She was a historian out of Hendersonville and she interviewed descendants of the people from the Happy Land.
00:12:56.040And it was hard getting a hold of that book.
00:13:00.180But the only place that has copies of that book called the Kingdom of the Happy Land is a library in Hendersonville.
00:13:09.700And so one of the people, they copied all the pages and sent it to me.
00:13:14.440And then I actually went to that particular library.
00:13:16.980They have it like under lock and key and they opened up like opening the vault and they and I saw the book and I took a picture of it next to my book.
00:13:27.280So I studied I studied her book. Her name is Sadie Patton Smathers.
00:17:01.740I believe, because you have to understand that when these people were stolen from their homeland, and most of them were, they were born here, the ones who went over to the kingdom of the happy land, but their ancestors, when their ancestors were stolen from their homeland, they were stolen from a place where they saw kings and queens.
00:17:29.820And so I believe that, you know, they understood that history in Africa. And so I think what they wanted to do was kind of replicate a kingdom, because they knew that their ancestors came from such a thing. And so that's the way I saw it.
00:17:52.720And then, oh no, I forget if this was in some of the extra writing you have in your book,
00:17:57.640or if I just read it somewhere else, but this is one of only two kingdoms that was ever in
00:18:02.360like the American continent, right? Yes. Well, but you have to understand that
00:18:07.860the one that was in Hawaii, they were annexed. So when they came over to America, it was no
00:18:16.040longer a kingdom. They were a kingdom when they were on their own. So people talk about
00:18:21.440that kingdom, but that was not the, you can't really consider it the first kingdom in America
00:18:28.400because when we brought them over as part of America, they were no longer a kingdom,
00:18:35.680if that makes sense. So I consider the kingdom of the happy land, the only kingdom in America.
00:18:44.240I love that. And I love that the king and queen were black people and the only kingdom in America.
00:18:49.180I loved it. I was amazed at when I when I researched this and and just kind of taking a look at the history of it.
00:18:59.920And I was amazed at the audacity. Of these people formerly enslaved and you were you had the audacity to call yourself king and queen.
00:19:12.600And so it just, the whole thing just was like set a fire under me.
00:19:19.800I truly believe that The American Queen is the best thing I've written.
00:19:24.520And it was because I was just so passionate about it as I, I think this is one of the
00:19:30.920stories I was born to write as a writer.
00:20:37.620Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, and armies scattered like bones in the dust.
00:20:43.240Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.
00:20:50.700But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.
00:20:55.020This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.
00:20:58.500Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job.
00:21:04.300This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make.
00:21:12.000This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.
00:21:16.740Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on youtube.com slash the glass cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day.
00:21:27.420See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark.
00:21:34.300The world of Sonic the Hedgehog has been thrust into a not-so-dark, not-so-stormy, hard-boiled detective story
00:22:35.540I'm Anne Foster, and I have never watched the show Spartacus, Blood, and Sand.0.93
00:22:39.780And I'm Gina Berry, and I've watched this show numerous times.
00:22:43.600On our new podcast, NeferTV, we discuss TV shows and movies set in ancient history.
00:22:48.460This season, we are discussing Spartacus, Blood, and Sand.
00:22:52.540Follow NeferTV, that's N-E-F-E-R-T-V, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:22:59.320and we're back oh now now this was a while ago um because this book was written a couple years
00:23:08.620ago but i i do with vanessa rylan is a um historical fiction writer and so we would sit
00:23:15.340and talk about it because we would we would do like monthly um group meetings for writers and
00:23:22.160so we would all be writing on our project and we would talk about what we're doing
00:23:25.840And one of the scenes in the book where I have Queen Luella, where the women dress her up and right before her coronation, Vanessa Riley and I talked about that because, you know, she's the one who writes all of these with these gowns and beautiful gowns and things like that.
00:23:49.420So we talked about it and she was able to help me with a site where I could, I actually, I sat for hours studying each layer of the gown that has to be put on. So I love that. And then Lisa Wingate, the thing that she really helped me with was the fact of the, she said, Vanessa, really, if there's any cool words that you want to say while you're writing this book,
00:24:17.860she said they weren't said during that time. She was like, so you have to take them out.
00:24:25.520And so Vanessa Raleigh also gave me a site where I could go and type in a word if I have it in my
00:24:34.520document. And I was able to see if that word had been used during that time period. And so every
00:24:43.380writer who writes historical needs to, um, to use that. And it is, I'm not going to be able to call
00:24:49.940it right now. And so I can get it for you later though. Yeah. Send me an email. I'll put it,
00:24:54.920I'll put it in the show notes afterwards. Yeah. And so, but, but yeah, so I use, I use the one
00:25:00.260Vanessa Riley gave me and then Shandra Sparks, um, Splone gave me another one. And I really
00:25:08.200like the one she gave me because it gave a little more detail and things like that. So I'll send you
00:25:14.180a link to both of those. And they were very helpful. I had to take out so many words
00:25:21.120in the book as I was writing it, but I really think it helped me become better as a historical
00:25:29.660fiction writer because I really began to understand that I can't write it as a contemporary
00:25:36.520women's fiction writer that, you know, I also am. And so it's like two different hats you have to
00:25:44.180put on if you're going to write contemporary or if you're going to write historical. They're
00:25:49.160both very different. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting just to think about the words
00:25:54.900that you would instinctively think. And I would imagine even if you're like, oh, this word feels
00:25:59.040old fashioned, it still isn't old enough. It's not old enough. There are some words you think, oh,
00:26:05.320I can put this in here. It's an older word. And I would go and look it up. And the first time it
00:26:12.920was used might have been in the 1930s. Well, I'm writing in the 1860s, 1870s, 1880s. I had to take
00:26:24.840it out. And so, yeah, there were a lot of words that I wanted to have in the book that did not
00:26:31.420make the cut yeah that's so interesting but like you said like that really just kind of
00:26:36.120not forces you in a negative way but it really get forces you in a positive way just to really
00:26:42.300put on that historical fiction writer hat and to really put yourself in this time period and to
00:26:46.660imagine how would she have said this if she can't say it the way that i would have said it yeah
00:26:52.060so luella as a character you know without getting into the events of the book how did you
00:26:58.180how did you come because I think when I read the book her character comes across very well like I
00:27:03.040really feel like I understood what she was like as a person and that's just a credit to your writing
00:27:07.440but how did you develop a character when you have you know you know a couple of you know some of the
00:27:11.760events that happened and you kind of know what she did but how do you turn that into a fully
00:27:17.120fledged person what was that process like yeah it was just a lot of um I had to really sit and
00:27:24.020think about her. But the one thing that kept coming up in my research about Queen Luella
00:27:31.020was that she was a dominant figure. And so I knew that I had to write her as basically the0.60
00:27:41.320controlling factor for everything that they did or most things, because I didn't also,
00:27:47.940I didn't want her husband to be a stooge to her. And so I had to have him, you know, at times say,
00:27:56.100hold on, wait a minute. Because, you know, sometimes that's how we are as women. We have to,
00:28:03.240we have to be told, hold on, wait a minute. So, so just reading about her life and reading about
00:28:15.140the different things with her husband and how there was more on him as far as in when they
00:28:24.380were in Mississippi. So I understood, I knew that he was a son of the slave owner. And so was his
00:28:31.460brother. I knew that his brother could pass for white, but he couldn't and things like that.0.91
00:28:38.180But building her was just like, it was something I just had to sit down and I just built her step by step because I loved everything I was reading about her.
00:28:51.200And so I wanted her to come across as a dominant figure, but I also wanted her to come across as a compassionate person, as a person who really desired good for other people.
00:29:06.740And that is one of the reasons why I began the story as I did, because I wanted you to understand her.
00:29:14.440I wanted the reader to be able to understand why she was the way she was later on in the in the in the book when certain people were ready to leave the kingdom and why she said, well, you know, this is your free will.
00:29:30.860This is what you you're able to do that if you want to, that she wasn't trying to hold people because of what she went through as a younger woman, as what she went through as a child.
00:29:46.300She never wanted people to experience the things that she experienced.
00:29:53.360And so it was a pleasure to build her and to write her because I wanted people to see her great compassion and her, especially when I learned that their motto was all for one and one for all.
00:30:11.480And so if you have a model like that, then you must treat people a certain way. And so it was just really, it was a joy to me to write her.
00:30:25.700Are there any physical, like, are there any evidence that this was ever there? Like, were you able to visit the actual land or is there a street named after them or anything like that?
00:30:36.560Absolutely. There is a street that is named, it's called Kingdom Drive. And it is right over where the kingdom once was. And I went and I took a picture. I held the book up by the song and took a picture of it.
00:30:53.860And I was able to walk the land of the kingdom of the happy land.
00:31:00.280The owners that are currently there, they were gracious enough to allow me to come on the land.
00:31:09.960And it was it was like something I'd never experienced because writing the story was one thing.
00:31:15.740but being able to see this. And so I knew that they knocked down all these trees to be able to
00:31:24.160build their land. So when I'm on this land, I look out and I see all these trees that are further,
00:31:32.480further back. There's still plenty of trees that were further back. And I'm like, these are the
00:31:39.680trees that I was talking about. These are the ones, part of the ones that were knocked down
00:31:46.980in the land. And then I'm able to see this trail that their wagons would drive into the land and
00:31:57.100out of the land on. It was a beautiful experience. I am just grateful that I was able to go
00:32:06.660and walk the land. And whenever you write historical, if you're able to go and visit,
00:32:15.000I think it's just so important for that. I'm actually taking a visit to Tulsa in March for
00:32:23.480another story that I'm writing, because even though it's a hundred and some years later,
00:32:28.660you still want to be able to to see it and to to kind of say okay this was the street this was
00:32:37.000this was how this was and that was what I was able to do on the kingdom of the happy land
00:32:41.860just be able to say this is how the land was uh this is this is you know this is how you come
00:32:48.420into the kingdom of the happy land and you know and it was as I described and so I was I was very
00:32:55.780happy about that it's so lovely because i hear it like um i had vanessa riley on my podcast a while
00:33:02.780ago when she did her last book about um uh queen charlotte no queen oh i forgot her name but the
00:33:10.360queen of haiti the the last one that she just did yeah queen of exiles queen of exiles was the book
00:33:15.180yeah and so she said like she went to you know london and all these places and so she travels
00:33:20.040to the places where her books take place.
00:33:49.160to sort of fill in those gaps, fill in the blanks of what the history is of this country.
00:33:54.980Yes. And that's what I tried to do. I wanted people to be able to picture it. And so we went
00:34:00.840and we took tons of pictures. I did a video of me just standing on the land. And so I've shown it
00:34:09.600now. I'm sure I'll reshow it as the book is getting ready to release and things like that,
00:34:15.820because I think it's important that people know that this was, this was true. They really did own
00:34:22.280this land and, and they chose to call it the kingdom of the happy land. And I mean, and they,
00:34:28.980and the research shows that they really did have thrones. Uh, and so they, and that's why I put it
00:34:34.900in, I put it in the book, their thrones and, and, you know, they, they held court. And so it was
00:34:41.860kingdom. So this episode is coming out just before, well, tell everybody when your book is published
00:34:47.880and then by the time they hear this, they'll be able to buy the book. So tell everybody when your
00:34:52.940book is published and kind of where they can, what events you're going to be doing and things like
00:34:56.780that. The American Queen releases on January the 30th, 2024. And I am traveling basically
00:35:06.800um, through North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama, uh, on my tour for the
00:35:14.680American queen. And so, um, all of my dates and I have a lot of, uh, that schedule is on my,
00:35:22.520it's on my website, but the first event on January 30th will be at Barnes and Noble, uh, at, at the
00:35:29.300Pineville mall, uh, in Charlotte, North Carolina. So if you, if you live in Charlotte, North Carolina,
00:35:35.520I come on out. That event begins at 6.30 p.m. I want to see everybody there as much as possible
00:35:43.020so that we kick off this tour in a great way, because I want as many people as possible to
00:35:50.120know about this great queen, Queen Luella. And I keep saying, long may she reign in your heart.
00:35:58.720Well, and I'm sure that this was intentional, but like February, Black History Month,
00:36:02.420this is when your book is coming out. So I think that's a time of year when, when this history is
00:36:06.960celebrated. And I love that because of your research and your book, now there's this new
00:36:10.560figure, Luella, but also William, also the kingdom of the happy land. It's a new, a new story for
00:36:16.800people to, to learn about in terms of American black history. Absolutely. And so, and that's why
00:36:23.240we, I truly hope that during this time I'm able to get out and I'm able to, um, spread the word
00:36:30.200about, uh, about them as much as possible. Um, even past Black History Month, uh, we have, um,
00:36:37.840Women's History Month in March, um, also. And so I want to be spreading the word about Queen Luella
00:36:44.300in, um, during Women's History Month as well, you know. Well, thank you so much for joining me today
00:36:51.280to talk about your book. Um, as I said, I read it and I thought it was so, it was so captivating.
00:36:57.020I think I sat down and read it all, all in one go. Yeah. But it was, I was just like,
00:37:02.240what's going to happen next? Cause it's the mixture of like the history itself. Cause
00:37:06.240I never knew that story as I don't think very many people do, but also I thought that just
00:37:11.160your writing style and the characterization of Luella, it was just really, it really all
00:37:15.220comes together. And I'm, I'm really, I'm happy I got to talk to you about it.
00:37:19.900Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I'm so glad you enjoyed the story. It was,
00:37:25.140It was a joy for me to write this story.
00:37:29.240And I'm sure people can see that through the writing of it.
00:37:33.280Thank you so much for joining me today.
00:37:40.460So The American Queen by Vanessa Miller comes out.
00:37:43.960Well, it's already out when you're listening to this.
00:37:45.640Publication date was January 30th, 2024.
00:37:48.200So you can track Vanessa and see where she is at all these events that she's going to be doing.0.83
00:37:53.580her website is vanessamiller.com and there's all the information is there you can find it she's
00:37:58.560also on social media and I did put the she sent me afterwards the links to those websites she's
00:38:05.500talking about where you can look up how old a word is and then just put those in the show notes for
00:38:09.020this podcast if you're a historical fiction author also and you're curious to know the age of various
00:38:15.380different words and so yeah so this podcast you can keep following us i'm on instagram at vulgar
00:38:23.540history pod and if you want to get in touch with me if you have a suggestion for an episode that
00:38:28.920you'd like a person you think would be interesting for me to talk to or a historical figure think you
00:38:34.180that i should talk about or learn about you can get in touch with me at vulgar history pod at
00:38:38.580gmail.com or i also have a form on my website which is vulgar history.com um there's a form
00:38:44.280there where you can email me as well. We also have merch available at vulgarhistory.com slash
00:38:48.840store. Or if you're outside the US, you can, the shipping is a bit better if you use vulgarhistory.redbubble.com.
00:38:55.920We also have a Patreon. If you support the podcast on Patreon, patreon.com slash Anne Foster
00:39:01.340Writer. So for $1 a month, you get early ad free access to all episodes of this podcast. And then
00:39:07.300if you pledge $5 or more per month, you get access to bonus episodes that are only on the Patreon.
00:39:12.740So that's things like we have the after show, where sometimes I just go a bit deeper with some of the guests who we talk to.
00:39:19.320I also do Vulgar Peace Theater, where I talk with Alison Epstein and Lana Wood Johnson about costume dramas from history.
00:39:25.260Our most recent one that we've just recorded, by the time you're hearing this, is Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure, which you might think, like, is that a costume drama?