00:03:12.500And I think that this description of herself as being insensible of boundaries is one that really captures the way that she traversed gender boundaries, racial boundaries, geographic boundaries in some really fascinating ways.0.86
00:03:27.780So Marianne Shad Carey was born in the U.S. in 1823.
00:09:19.280This is right on the heels of the Fugitive Slave Act, which essentially made it so that any enslaved person who ran away could be returned to slavery.
00:09:28.440They did not simply gain their freedom upon entering a free state.
00:09:31.740This was also a law that would have endangered free African-Americans as well, who could easily be captured and sold into slavery, considering that there were incentives for bounty hunters to return enslaved people.
00:09:45.640So even if, let's say, there is hypothetically an accident or case of mistaken identity, that's something that still endangers free Black people.
00:09:54.680Or famously, there's the case of Solomon Northrup, the man who the movie 12 Years a Slave is based on, who was a free African-American who was captured and sold into slavery.
00:10:05.640That being said, Shad Carey and many others end up leaving the United States.
00:10:11.140So she leaves in 1851. And in 1852, she publishes what is probably her most famous piece called A Plea for Emigration.
00:10:21.080And in this pamphlet, Shad Carey essentially argues that African-Americans should leave the United States because there is no racism in Canada.
00:10:30.700Side note, questionable, right? That's not entirely true.
00:10:35.620But nevertheless, that was the argument that she was making. There's no racism in Canada.
00:10:40.380It's a wonderful place where you can thrive, where you can experience your labor being compensated fairly, right, where the land is ripe for farming and things of this nature.
00:10:56.060In this document, she goes into a lot of detail about things that I myself am not particularly interested in having to do with, like, the environment, for instance.
00:11:04.480She talks about the quality of the soil.
00:11:27.660She sees immigration as an abolitionist strategy because in her mind, having the protection
00:11:35.160and the backing of the British crown would allow African Americans who go to Canada to better
00:11:41.740contest slavery. She also suggests that it would allow them to provide more aid to the abolitionist
00:11:47.500movement. As she advocates for emigration to Canada, she also suggests that integration is
00:11:54.540possible there and that there is no, quote, spirit of caste. That's what she calls it.
00:12:00.680So she really sees Canada as this safe haven. So she publishes a plea for immigration in 1852, and the following year, she begins her newspaper, The Provincial Freedmen.
00:12:12.640Both of these acts of publishing the pamphlet and of also publishing her newspaper, these don't necessarily go over well with the existing Black male leadership of what she calls Canada West at the time.
00:12:28.320Shad Carey enters this environment where there are already attempts to establish missions in refugee homes, for instance, among leaders such as Henry Bibb, who also had a newspaper in Canada.
00:12:45.480So to a certain extent, she was stepping on people's toes. She did not come to Canada and kiss the ring, as it were, and try to operate within the existing structures. Rather, she came to Canada, she established her own school.
00:13:03.400I don't think I mentioned that. She was a jack-of-all-trades. She did five million different
00:13:07.260things. And so the environment that she's entering into is one where Black women, or women more1.00
00:13:15.840broadly, aren't supposed to be doing that kind of thing. Shaq Carey was the first Black woman1.00
00:13:21.200newspaper editor in North America. And so we see that this is new ground that she's breaking.
00:13:31.500I have to add a caveat here that Henry Bibb, who I mentioned, he was married to a woman named Mary Bibb, and it is suspected that she was involved in some of the editing of his newspaper.
00:13:47.100So this title of laying claim to the first, perhaps it is Mary Bibbs as well to a certain
00:13:53.280extent, but Shad Carey was operating as the sole editor to a greater extent than Mary Bibb was
00:14:00.380operating as the sole editor, I would say. Can we just talk about, sorry, and when the newspaper
00:14:05.480came out, she didn't put her name on it, right? That's right. So she was pulling a lot of strings
00:14:12.560behind the scenes. Shad Carey did not publish her name on the masthead of the newspaper at first,
00:14:18.560in part because she was aware of the sort of backlash that a woman would receive0.73
00:14:23.100in having the audacity to publish her own newspaper. So it only contained the names of0.66
00:14:29.260other men. When there were meetings that she wanted to organize to address various issues,
00:14:34.000for instance, Jane Rhodes has established that Mary Ann Shad Carey would get some men to do it1.00
00:14:39.780for her. So she was really collaborating with a lot of other people in order to publish the
00:14:46.180newspaper. But she does eventually come out as the editor of the newspaper. There's a piece,
00:14:52.560a letter to the editor that starts something to the effect of, dear Mr. Editor. And she responds
00:14:57.840to this letter, but she also says, hey, by the way, I'm not a mister. I'm actually a woman.
00:15:02.960So Shad Carey did take some steps to conceal her identity in the early days, as you mentioned,0.62
00:15:08.840by not publishing her name on the masthead of the newspaper.
00:15:12.560She would also sign various editorials with her initials rather than her full name.
00:15:18.080Or sometimes she would sign them with an asterisk rather than any name or initials at all.
00:15:24.140So there were some measures to conceal her identity and presumably protect herself as
00:15:35.160work. Well, and because she would also like to try and drive up subscriptions. This is this part0.99
00:15:40.640of where she would go around and give like public talks and things like that. So she would give1.00
00:15:45.380public lectures throughout the from the 50s, really, until I would say the 70s, at least.
00:15:52.620And so the work that she's doing very much thought to draw on multiple strategies. She wasn't only
00:16:01.040writing pamphlets. She was also writing editorials. She was writing in other people's
00:16:05.100newspapers. She was delivering lectures. For example, there was a point in time, I want to say
00:16:11.3401857, where she participated in a public debate with another man about the topic of immigration.
00:16:20.960The accounts of this debate established, one, that she won, but two, at the outset of this debate,
00:16:28.220The person who she was speaking with, J.C. Wears, established, although you are a woman, I'm not going to treat you any differently in this debate.
00:16:36.860We're here to talk about ideas, so let's talk about ideas, right?
00:16:39.540So there's a certain way in which Mary Ann Shad Carey's gender was recognized by her contemporaries, but what they did with it looked different sometimes, right?
00:16:51.160So the person who she was debating said, I'm not going to pull any punches just because you're a woman, right?
00:16:56.840you're here debating, so let's debate. But on the other hand, her gender was something that people1.00
00:17:02.660could easily take shots at too. So for instance, one of the most famous criticisms that she received0.96
00:17:08.460was published in Henry Bibb's newspaper, where he wrote that Shad Carey, quote,
00:17:14.720has said and writes many things that we think shall add nothing to her credit as a lady.0.99
00:17:20.080And so she's being accused of being unladylike for the types of work that she's doing on behalf
00:17:25.660of Black communities. Can we talk a bit about the school that she established? Well, and in the0.88
00:17:31.900context of the school, and then also the newspaper, and in terms of finances, and how she's able to
00:17:37.840get the struggles that she had to keep these things afloat? Yeah, absolutely. So when I was
00:17:43.760doing research for this book, looking at how she sought to fund the school, I think that that's
00:17:50.340where some of the sadder parts of her story come through, because she was in this prolonged
00:17:56.840conflict, let's say, with Henry Bibb for a number of reasons, not simply because of the newspaper,
00:18:04.260not simply because of the school, but also because he had established the Refugee Home Society,
00:18:11.960which Mary Ann Chatt Carey essentially accused of misappropriating the funds that they were
00:18:17.380receiving that were supposed to be used to help people who were newly arrived from the United1.00
00:18:23.640States. She writes in one of her pieces, for instance, that the clothes that were donated to
00:18:30.420the Refugee Home Society were being kept in a barn and being trampled on by horses and picked
00:18:36.080at by chickens. So she and Henry Bibb have this prolonged conflict, which also affects the type
00:18:42.780of funding that she's able to get or her struggle to get funding for the school. The American
00:18:48.100Missionary Association was a Christian organization that was philanthropic in nature. And that is where
00:18:56.240Shad Carey got the money from to establish her school. She established this school as specifically
00:19:01.960an interracial one, although it appears that there were more Black students, of course, who were
00:19:08.020attending this school than white students. But she was adamant that the school should not replicate
00:19:12.420the quote-unquote spirit of caste that existed in the United States. She was really in favor
00:19:17.280of integration. And looking at these letters, there are moments in time where Shad Carey is
00:19:24.440expressing the personal challenges that she was encountering. So she notes, for instance,
00:19:31.200as she's giving an update on the school, that she's sorry she hasn't updated in a while because
00:19:36.300there was a cholera outbreak and she herself is recovering. And I think moments like that,
00:19:40.800It's just like, wow, here I am, like, complaining about responding to two emails, and she is dealing with a cholera outbreak, right?
00:19:49.160So to a certain extent, it reminds, I think, it reminds contemporary readers that sometimes we need to buck up and get to it, right, with whatever it is that we're trying to do.
00:19:58.800But also, it's kind of sad because she also writes in one of these other pieces that someone else might have the strength to do it, but she doesn't, after withstanding all of these attacks.
00:20:10.540on her character. So it wasn't easy for her to procure funding for the school.
00:20:16.400She also notes that she's having trouble even paying for her own basic necessities, right?
00:20:23.680So she's trying to get a salary and is being accused at this point in time
00:20:29.260of pocketing too much money, for instance. And she's trying to establish that really
00:20:34.860the money that is being raised isn't enough to do what needs to be done to keep the lights on
00:20:42.260in the school, for lack of better words. Shad Carey was trying to be strategic, but she constantly
00:20:48.960ran into financial difficulties, whether it had to do with funding her school or whether it had
00:20:54.000to do with funding her newspaper, the Provincial Freeman, which at various points in time
00:25:35.980Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust.
00:25:40.980Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.
00:25:48.860But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.
00:25:53.200This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.
00:25:56.400Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job.
00:26:02.580This is a brutal rules-light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make.
00:26:10.140This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.
00:26:14.880Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on youtube.com slash the glass cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day.
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00:31:53.960In 1872, she delivered a speech to the Judiciary Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives.0.92
00:32:01.760And in this speech, she advocates specifically for women's suffrage.
00:32:06.480It appears that she was speaking alongside other suffragists on this particular day.
00:32:11.000But when you look at the records from the U.S. Senate minutes, she's not listed there.
00:32:17.420We do, however, have the text of her speech.
00:32:20.100So this is how we see some of the silences in the archives that emerge as we're doing historical research, too, that she's missing from the actual governmental records of what transpires.
00:32:32.500Nevertheless, in this speech, Mary Ann Shadkari establishes that although the 14th and 15th Amendments were, quote unquote, otherwise grand in conception, that their exclusion of Black women was significant.
00:32:47.300Now, the 14th and 15th Amendments establish that African-Americans are citizens of the United States, grants African-American men due process under the law, and grants African-American men as well the right to vote.
00:33:02.540However, Black women did not gain the right to vote with the passage or the ratification of the 15th Amendment.0.70
00:33:09.520So Marianne Shadkari is establishing with this speech that Black women also need the0.86
00:39:23.940I love how many things there are, honestly.
00:39:26.060There could always be more, but there's people I talk about this podcast with nothing.
00:39:29.320Yeah. And that's that's what I think what's really fascinating to me, too, is that it seems as though there is much broader recognition of her in Canada than there is in the United States, which is unique to me because she spent about 12 years in Canada.
00:39:50.560And in those 12 years, amassed such great influence that she's still being commemorated to this day.
00:39:58.700The majority of her life was, in fact, spent in the United States, but the comparable level of recognition and commemoration, I think, isn't quite there.
00:40:08.480And so I really think that she's someone who we all have something to learn from, right? Because she's doing so much. She's breaking so many different barriers in ways that are applicable to lots of different demographics or constituencies. And so I hope that with last year being the 200-year anniversary of her birth, that some of the momentum and the energy we're seeing around commemorating her continues and really introduces her to a broader audience.
00:40:36.780well it's funny just when I first came across the fact that you'd done this book and then I got your
00:40:41.380book and I read it and I had come across her entirely as a Canadian icon and I was like oh
00:40:47.420she was in the U.S. too it's like yeah kind of majorly kind of crucially for a long time because
00:40:53.380it was just all the context of Canada that I had heard about her before yeah well I'm curious can
00:40:58.700you tell me how if you remember how you first learned about Shad Carey gosh I think it was
00:41:05.140probably just at some point when I was looking up who are I wanted to learn about black Canadian
00:41:09.580women and just kind of find it partially for the podcast and partially for my own interest and her
00:41:14.300name just always comes up and it's always in the context of the newspaper basically it's like this
00:41:18.960is her and she was the person who created this newspaper and so I'd had the back of my mind like
00:41:22.740I want to learn more about her and then just you see I was just looking again at this list of
00:41:26.600commemorations so there was a statue of her was unveiled at the University of Windsor
00:41:30.440two years ago so i feel like i feel like in canada every february she is brought to prominence again
00:41:37.680and i'm like oh yeah mary ann shakari so um she was a google doodle yes i did see that google
00:41:43.360doodle in 2020 so yeah i think it was in that context there's um the tv show the amazing race
00:41:48.140canada um one of their stops was they went by a commemoration of her and some of her descent her
00:41:54.180descendants are out here doing the work is i think that's where i've heard about her because i think
00:41:58.640they were on The Amazing Race talking about her. Actually, there's an author who I've interviewed
00:42:04.120on this podcast, Craig Shreve, and he is a descendant of her as well. He didn't write
00:42:08.120about her, but he is. And I came across that. So I don't know. I just feel like part of it is in
00:42:13.380Canada. There's not that many figures to celebrate that people know about to celebrate
00:42:17.940in Black History Month. And she's kind of, she's kind of it.
00:42:21.220So there, that makes sense. Yeah. When I first came across Shad Carey, um, I was reading in grad
00:42:29.180school and her name kept coming up in, um, in connection to other people or other moments or
00:42:36.960movements and things like that. Um, as someone who was always involved in these networks, um,
00:42:42.900but some, but tangentially so to a certain extent. And so eventually I asked myself, okay, let's go
00:42:48.440figure out who this, who this woman is. Um, and I've just found her so fascinating ever since.
00:42:53.500Well, and let's talk about, um, you talk about this, I think it's in the introduction to your
00:42:58.100book, but that you hadn't intended to write this book at this point in time and it just kind of
00:43:04.300came together. Can you talk about that? Yeah, absolutely. Um, so as I was reading about Shad
00:43:10.700Carey in grad school, when I kept seeing her name, I tried to look for a type of book like
00:43:18.340what I've put together now, right? Many Black women thinkers, writers, feminists from the 19th0.97
00:43:25.960century, a lot of them have edited collections of their work where you can look at the collected0.99
00:43:30.480works of Ida B. Wells or Frances Harper or other figures. And so I went to look for one of Shad
00:43:37.060Carrie and I realized that it didn't exist. And I said, huh, okay, like maybe I'll get to that
00:43:42.020eventually. But being in academia and being in the humanities, the expectation is typically
00:43:49.320that you turn your dissertation into a book before you go on other side quests. And the
00:43:57.620impulse for me to do that first wasn't really, it wasn't as strong because of the timing of
00:44:07.740Shad Carey's 200 year anniversary. So it seemed like a more timely endeavor to work on the Shad
00:44:15.860Carey edited collection so that it would be out in time for October 9th, 2023, which was her
00:44:23.380birthday um and while the book wasn't fully out by that point in time it was available for pre-order
00:44:28.960um and and i did hold a book launch on her birthday um to talk about the book um alongside
00:44:36.780other scholars which i think was really fantastic for being able to celebrate her on this really
00:44:42.900important anniversary um but that being said i i don't think i was supposed to write this book yet
00:44:48.520because of these sort of academic expectations when you have a tenure track job and they expect
00:44:54.700you to do certain things in order to remain employed. But nevertheless, I thought that the
00:45:01.640other book could wait because this one seemed more important at that particular point in time.
00:45:07.520And I think that it was also just helpful for me personally as well to do a deep dive into Shad
00:45:12.840Carey first, because it allowed me to think through how I'm conceptualizing Black radicalism
00:45:19.140during the 19th century, and what that meant for Black women, which is something that I'm
00:45:24.180exploring in more detail in the other book that I'm working on.
00:45:29.060And so you talk about that. I found so much interesting stuff, like obviously,
00:45:34.520Mary and Chad Carey's writings, but just you talking about the process of writing this book
00:45:37.840in the foreword and then in the afterward. Can you talk about how her papers are all over the
00:45:44.680place and the challenge of just trying to compile them? Yes. Oh my goodness. And in one way, I lucked
00:45:52.040out working on this book because a lot of the material that I draw on has been digitized.
00:45:59.020And that is helpful because Marianne Shad Carey's papers are all over the place. She was publishing
00:46:05.580in newspapers throughout the United States. She was writing her own editorials in the
00:46:13.240Provincial Freeman. And so her records are spread out through, off the top of my head,
00:46:20.140three main places, I would say. One, the Archives of Ontario, which has a whole lot of material.
00:46:27.560Two, the Moreland Spingarn Research Center in Washington, D.C. Three, the Amistad Research
00:46:35.120Center in New Orleans. And these are not places that you can get to by just hopping in your car
00:46:41.360and driving 20 minutes, right? These places are that you require a plane to get from one place
00:46:47.040to the next if you would like to do so in a timely manner. But luckily for me, many of the
00:46:53.540newspapers that Shad Carey wrote in have been made available online or they've been digitized
00:47:00.400elsewhere. So this book as well, to a certain extent, was a pandemic project. I started working
00:47:08.340on it probably within one to two months of the COVID shutdowns. Because so much material was
00:47:16.020online, I actually felt like things were flowing really quickly in the early days of working on
00:47:21.500this book. I think I probably finished chapters one and two in maybe one to two months. It moved
00:47:28.640really quickly. And then chapters three and four took a very long time because I simply had other
00:47:33.200things to do. And things weren't as easily accessible at that point in time. But that being
00:47:38.560said, when it comes to the process of doing the research, having the archivist work with me to
00:47:46.180make things available online, begging and pleading with the Kislak Center at UPenn, that's who owns
00:47:54.460the scans of the Provincial Freeman, these things were all part of the research process.
00:48:00.800I also need to give a shout out to the Center for Black Digital Research at Penn State,
00:48:07.040because they helped to obtain some of these materials that are part of the book. And I was
00:48:12.840doing a fellowship there last year. So we were all working on making Shad Carey's materials
00:48:18.900available to the public in some way, shape, or form with the Center for Black Digital Research
00:48:24.360hosting Douglas Day, this annual transcribe-a-thon that uses the materials from some of these
00:48:30.020places I've just mentioned, and is going to make them available, make those transcriptions
00:48:34.320available online. So it was a very long process to be able to compile these materials. But I am
00:48:42.940grateful that now the book is out in the world. Well, and that's where you said that in the first
00:48:48.240place, you're looking, you're like, oh, surely there's a book like this in existence that I
00:48:51.260oh there's not and it's like oh this is why there wasn't because like right absolutely the amount of
00:48:56.060work it takes to to make this book of and I mean you know it's lucky in a way I guess that you're
00:49:01.440doing this in the era where things are digitization is possible if someone 25 years ago was trying to
00:49:06.480do this they would be hopping on those planes and yeah absolutely and so I as a as a historian
00:49:12.320working in the 21st century I certainly do feel like I have it easier than people who would have
00:49:17.420been doing this work 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. So I had messaged you about this part of my show.
00:49:24.180So I like to, I just keep an ongoing score of all the people who we talk about. And I sent you all
00:49:29.340the categories. I want you to be not thrown off when I suddenly did this. And I'm so interested
00:49:33.780to see where Marianne Shag Carey is going to land. So the four categories that we have,
00:49:38.940and they were invented by me in the first place. It was basically just because I talk about all
00:49:44.200different kinds of people and I want everybody to be able to score highly in some category you know
00:49:48.940so it's measuring different so even if there's somebody who back in history all they did was
00:49:53.140some sort of like scandalous affair it's like well at least they're gonna get points for scandal
00:49:57.580even if they're good points for other but Marianne should I carry I'm curious I'm curious so the first
00:50:02.260category is that it's the scandalousness and that is really much very much in the context of the time
00:50:08.280and place where she was living did people find what she was doing scandalous and it's a score0.90
00:50:13.600of zero to 10 and what do you think yeah i'm gonna have to give her a seven on the scandalousness1.00
00:50:20.620scale um and that is because while she did face certain kinds of criticism she also had people
00:50:29.000who were co-signing her and who were working alongside her yeah well and who is it you said0.72
00:50:34.420the person who was like run out of town for being like a black woman with an opinion yeah mariah1.00
00:50:39.440Stewart. I think, I feel like if we were doing her, she would get a higher score because people
00:50:44.120just didn't, she didn't have that support. So the next category is scheminess, which I use the word
00:50:50.680scheminess just so all the categories can start with S, but really just means like cleverness
00:50:54.420and like coming up with a plan, executing the plan, seeing what was going on and being flexible
00:50:59.120and adaptable. And where do you think she would fall on that in the zero to 10? I've got to give
00:51:03.720her a 10 out of 10 for scheminess as a schemer myself I am particularly drawn to the ways that0.94
00:51:09.580she was always she was really she stayed scheming in order to publish the newspaper she had the0.87
00:51:15.900scheme in order to get funding that requires a different kind of scheming but scheming nonetheless
00:51:21.500um so this I think that scheminess was really central to the ways that she sought to advocate
00:51:27.920for black people in general and black women in particular I love that I love that about her
00:51:33.640And I think it really came across just in you recounting her story.
00:51:36.500It's like she had these goals and aims and she's like, OK, how am I going to make this happen in like a world that is not going to support this necessarily?
00:51:57.420So in terms of her significance to world history.
00:51:59.380But if you think about her significance to the people around her, like the children who went to her school, like what did they go on and do?
00:52:05.980You know, that's the kind of significance as well.
00:52:29.380She was a lecturer. She was an abolitionist. She was a suffragist. She did so many different things.1.00
00:52:35.340And in many of those categories, she was the first in some way, shape or form.
00:52:39.920And I think that we need to I think we need to recognize how, despite her significance,
00:52:46.200she has been left out of the left out of the popular knowledge about African-American history or Canadian history to a great degree.
00:52:55.900So I think we really should grapple more with her significance.
00:52:59.380absolutely and i was just thinking about everything you just listed like the work that
00:53:04.520she was doing was to support other people and so not just like directly things like this school but
00:53:08.780like by writing these editorials you know how that puts an idea in somebody else's head and then what
00:53:13.480do they think and what do they do and advocating for abolition and for suffrage like how many
00:53:18.560people does that affect you know by changing people's minds by showing people that she's a
00:53:22.580role model yeah i feel like if i it's like 10 plus but 10 is as high as we go and then the final
00:53:28.380category is the sexism bonus which is basically how much more could she have done if they're not
00:53:35.340for sexism so it's like giving her bonus points for having to put up with that yeah i'm gonna
00:53:41.240give her an eight for the sexism bonus marianne shad carry accomplished a lot and she was cognizant
00:53:50.180of the ways that her gender at some points in time worked against her she also sought to subvert0.98
00:53:57.300patriarchy by working alongside men to advance her goals. And in doing so, she also criticized
00:54:04.180Black women's exclusion from activism. This is something that she was explicit about,
00:54:08.380that she thought Black women should be able to have opinions in public without it being a problem.0.98
00:54:13.720She always insisted on Black women's involvement in some way, shape, or form,
00:54:19.560whether it was in Black activism or, as we see later on, in women's suffrage.0.99
00:54:24.460So I'm definitely going to have to give her an eight for that one.
00:54:27.300well and you mentioned too like the people the who henry bibb was that his name yes who was just
00:54:32.840like oh you're not being ladylike where it's just like are you kidding me like on top of everything
00:54:38.340it's like oh i'm sorry i'm doing like 17 jobs and i have to be ladylike at the same time like right
00:54:43.100absolutely yeah so putting up with that so that gives her a total of 35 out of 40 which in terms
00:54:49.700of all the people have done this podcast puts her very much towards the top i'm just seeing like who
00:54:55.100else she's near who you might have heard of I do some pretty obscure people on the show
00:54:59.080but um it's definitely she's very high up like um I don't know like Catherine de Medici
00:55:07.540is 35.5 Mary Queen of Scots is 36 and Jenga of Angola is a 36 like she's a very good company
00:55:15.420like scheming people great we love a schemer we love it we love it so can you tell everybody
00:55:23.440about just your book and the title and where they can get it and all that sort of stuff.
00:55:28.100Yes, absolutely. My book is titled Mary Ann Shad Carey, Essential Writings of a 19th Century Black
00:55:35.900Radical Feminist. And this book really serves as an introduction to her by offering you a quick
00:55:42.060summary, as well as copies of letters, editorials, organizational records, and other documents by
00:55:50.740and about Shad Carey. You can get it for 30% off with the discount code A-A-F-L-Y-G-6.
00:56:01.540Once again, that is A-A-F-L-Y-G, then the number six. And you can get that at the Oxford University
00:56:11.180Press website to use that discount code. I'll put that in the show notes 100%. So if people
00:56:17.280are listening and they're like, oh, I didn't get it. Like, don't worry. I'll put it in the show.
00:56:19.760I'll put a link so everybody can get it. But yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for joining
00:56:24.520me today to talk about her. I think this is great. And actually, I'll just ask you one more question
00:56:28.240because this is in February in Canada and the United States is Black History Month.
00:56:34.120So where do you see her significance in terms of Black history?
00:56:37.600Yeah, I think that Chad Carey highlights how Black networks functioned in both the U.S. and Canada. And so within the context of Black history, it's nothing without the people who made it, right?
00:56:55.400And she's certainly one of those people through the ways that she was in contact with, for example, well-known figures like Frederick Douglass, right?
00:57:03.360She's certainly part of Black history for the ways that she was responding to and reflecting the key concerns of African-Americans at these particular points in time.
00:57:15.420I'm just looking at that list again, because I'm just like, she's one of the only non-royal people to have a score as high as 35.
00:57:24.020she's she might be the highest ranking like civilian civilian so i love that for her i
00:57:31.140love that for her actually oh not sorry i keep asking one more question um the cover image of
00:57:36.700your book speaking of marianne shed carry as a queen like can you people can look at the picture
00:57:42.000i'm going to make that the picture like the icon of this episode but yeah where did you talk about
00:57:46.620that picture? Yes, I would love to. So that portrait is by an artist named Young Yemi,
00:57:54.120who actually painted it as a mural for the Toronto History Museums. And this was, I believe,
00:58:01.300in 2021 as part of a series that the museum was doing. And as soon as I saw it, I was like,
00:58:07.140that is my book cover. I just found my book cover. So I asked him if I could use the image,
00:58:13.260I explained what I'm doing with the book. And thankfully he agreed. And I am simply obsessed
00:58:19.460with the cover. He goes into detail, and I have a note about this in the book as well,
00:58:24.780about what different elements of the cover reflect. So for example, some of the flowers
00:58:30.680that she's depicted wearing are the state flowers of Delaware, for instance. So different details,
00:58:37.360whether it has to do with the color choice or how something is designed maps directly onto
00:58:44.760different parts of her life story. Well, and I love that too, because, and you say this in your
00:58:49.580book as well, but there's kind of only one, when you look her up, it's like, here's the one picture
00:58:53.380of her that we have. Right. So that's an important point too. Thanks for the reminder. So there's
00:58:58.160only one surviving photograph of Marianne Shad Carey. And that's the naturally the image that
00:59:04.880everyone uses whenever they're publishing something about her or whenever they're writing
00:59:10.060a news article about her. So I was glad to be able to have a different image of Shad Carey.
00:59:16.040But also, and perhaps more importantly, I think that this image encourages us to have
00:59:22.68021st century understandings of Shad Carey, which is part of what I'm aiming to accomplish
00:59:28.280with my book. People often think of her as an editor, which she certainly was, but she was
00:59:33.840also so much more than that. And so I'm hoping that the image reflects this more expansive view
00:59:39.360of Shad Carey that I hope to take with the book. And at least for me, that was at first I saw the
00:59:44.700cover. I'm like, oh, oh, it's not the one picture. And then reading it, I'm like, oh, she's more than
00:59:50.240just the editor. Yeah, there's so much more to her. So yes, it's the perfect way to lure people
00:59:55.240in. All part of my grand scheme. Exactly, exactly. Thank you so much for joining me today. This has
01:00:02.540been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me. So again, the book is called Mary Ann Shad Carey
01:00:14.180Essential Writings of a 19th Century Black Radical Feminist by Nika Denny. It is available all over
01:00:19.640the place. And I put the links in the show notes to get your discount code and also on her publisher's
01:00:26.300page for, I think for this month, hopefully until the end of this month, you can for free read the
01:00:31.900introduction to the book, which kind of gives the extended biography of Marianne Shad Carey,
01:00:36.720what we talked about and a bit more as well. And I'm excited to share this information like about
01:00:42.860Marianne Shad Carey with you, especially because I know so many of the listeners are in the United
01:00:46.940States and in Canada, and we haven't talked a lot about people from those places. But now you have
01:00:52.280some sites that you can go visit, some plaques and some buildings that you can go make pilgrimages
01:00:57.080too, if you're in those areas. So just a couple of reminders that I always say at the end of each
01:01:04.220episode, actually, if you want to see where Marianne Shadkari fits on the Fredigan Memorial
01:01:08.020Scandalicious Scale, a score of 35, like really puts her, anything above 30 is kind of in the
01:01:14.260upper echelon. 35 and above is like the top tier of Scandalicious People on this podcast.
01:01:21.040And if you want to kind of see the whole scale that is available at vulgarhistory.com,
01:01:25.240you can just click there's a link there that you can just see the whole scale just to kind of see
01:01:28.880where everybody fits into that because we have an increasing amount of people on that scale
01:01:32.720you can keep up with me and this podcast i'm on instagram at vulgar history pod where you can
01:01:39.840message me um i always love to hear your thoughts and your ideas and your feedback about this
01:01:44.420podcast also a great place where you can share your thoughts ideas and feedback is um by leaving
01:01:49.740review on apple podcasts or on spotify or wherever you're listening because i see those those make me
01:01:56.840happy and you can also support this podcast on patreon at patreon.com such and foster writer
01:02:02.480so if you pledge at least one dollar or more a month you get early ad free access to all the
01:02:06.980episodes um but also you can then get the ad free access to the older episodes as well it's not just
01:02:12.400the newer ones and for five dollars or more a month you get all that plus also access to our
01:02:17.160bonus episodes vulgar piece theater where we talk about costume dramas and various other patreon
01:02:23.180only things that go on there if you want to just listen to a specific bonus episode putting them
01:02:29.040slowly there's like four available now but there's more to come um those are available you can buy
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01:02:37.340necessarily becoming a monthly patreon member also when you join the patreon at five dollars
01:02:42.240or more a month i forget to say this sometimes we have a discord server which is just like a big
01:02:46.380group chat and we just talk shit basically it's a nice time and merch is available at vulgarhistory.com
01:02:55.180slash store if you're outside the u.s you can get better shipping if you go to our alternate store
01:03:00.000vulgarhistory.redbubble.com you can get in touch with me using there's a form at vulgarhistory.com
01:03:06.360you can also email me directly at vulgarhistorypod at gmail.com transcripts of recent episodes are
01:03:12.640available at vulgarhistory.com. Thank you to Aveline Malik for providing these transcripts.
01:03:17.680We'll be back next week as we continue this month-long celebration of Black History Month,
01:03:24.040and I'm really excited to keep doing this podcast and doing episodes with you.0.99
01:03:29.540So anyway, until next time, my friends, keep your pants on and your tits out.0.97
01:03:36.560Vulgar History is hosted, written, and researched by Anne Foster and edited by Christina Lumagi.0.99
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01:03:53.120on their skinny jeans in 2026 dentine chew bold
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01:05:00.620Do you ever watch a TV show set in a historical time period and think,
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