Vulgar History - October 07, 2020


How To Lose A Queen In Nine Days, part 6: Lady Jane Grey

How To Lose A Queen In Nine Days, part 5: Frances Grey, Duchess of Suffolk How To Lose A Queen In Nine Days, part 7: Lady Katherine Grey, Countess of Hertford

Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

32

sentences flagged

Toxicity

18

sentences flagged

Hate speech

15

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hello, and welcome to Vulgar History Season 3. My name is Anne Foster, and this is a feminist 0.99
00:00:19.420 women's history comedy podcast. The season's theme is how to lose a queen in nine days,
00:00:25.480 aka the Lady Jane Grey scenario. What we're doing with this theme is looking at several of the
00:00:31.680 different people, specifically the women, and how they can help explain how and why a 16-year-old
00:00:38.780 girl was the Queen of England for nine days in the 16th century. We've looked at Lady Jane Grey's
00:00:46.460 grandmother, her step-grandmother, her two women who are sort of role models towards her,
00:00:53.000 and then also her mother and today we're actually looking at Lady Jane Grey herself. So it's not
00:00:58.340 one might think that this podcast was going to slowly lead up to Jane Grey and that would be
00:01:02.780 the finale but this is kind of her midpoint because the Lady Jane Grey scenario didn't 0.94
00:01:08.920 just pop up out of nowhere and once she was executed the power and the threat of her family
00:01:16.980 of the Greys didn't just go away. So we're going to look at Lady Jane Grey this week and then in
00:01:22.260 the subsequent weeks we're going to look at the continued fallout of this whole wild thing that
00:01:28.500 happened in in English history so just to do a recap and especially if somebody for some reason
00:01:35.680 is listening to this episode and you haven't listened to the previous ones we'll just get up
00:01:39.580 to speed on what what all is happening in the world at this point so before so Lady Jane Grey
00:01:47.420 was crowned in 1553 spoiler prior to that the closest any woman had ever come to ruling england
00:01:54.880 on her own like not as a queen married to a king and the king was actually in charge
00:01:59.960 was when empress matilda attempted to seize the crown in the 12th century so that's 300 years
00:02:05.480 before and i talked about that in season two of this podcast so you can learn more about
00:02:10.020 what happened with her matilda never got closer than attempting to become a queen actually she
00:02:16.420 got so close she was in westminster abbey about to be crowned and then people attacked and then
00:02:21.180 she had to flee and so she never ended up actually becoming the queen so that happened um her cousin
00:02:28.420 ended up taking over it was messy again season two of this podcast explains it more fully but
00:02:35.620 so there wasn't at any point between then and 1553 a law saying a woman couldn't be
00:02:43.880 solo queen of england there wasn't any sort of law saying like it had like okay there was a rule
00:02:50.400 saying that i had to like you go to the male descendants first and only when there's not a
00:02:53.600 male descendant you go to the women descendants but a woman could totally be queen there's no
00:02:58.120 rule against it but the common law of the time said that women were i don't know if the word 1.00
00:03:03.980 is subservient but as in as a woman was married her husband had control over her money and her 0.96
00:03:09.280 property and stuff so even if she was the queen as soon as she got married her husband would have
00:03:13.580 lots and lots of power so that was sort of a weird paradigm for them to wrap their heads around
00:03:17.900 thinking like okay a woman could be queen but then whoever her husband is who wouldn't be of royal
00:03:22.840 blood necessarily would then have all this crazy power too so that was part of the issues but okay 0.67
00:03:30.100 so between Matilda and the Lady Jane Grey scenario there had never been a situation where a woman
00:03:35.560 even almost became queen there had always been a man or a boy at least one often several there's
00:03:42.400 always you know a king died and there was another man or a boy there waiting in the wings to take
00:03:46.700 over so no one ever had to really do these complex computations of what happens when a woman takes
00:03:54.700 over so there's a lot of reasons why the lady jane gray scenario happened how and why this teenager
00:04:03.260 became queen and so through the first several episodes of this season we looked at so henry
00:04:09.800 the eighth had two sisters his older sister margaret married the king of scots and then her
00:04:15.100 descendants were catholic so henry crossed them off of the line of succession because he didn't
00:04:20.620 want scottish catholics to be in charge so in his will henry said like the crown should go to my
00:04:27.400 children my legitimate children he had some illegitimate children too well that's kind of
00:04:31.320 the thing so he had a son named edward who everybody agreed was totally his legitimate son
00:04:35.080 he had two daughters Mary and Elizabeth who were kind of like legitimate and then illegitimate
00:04:41.560 and it was sort of confusing and there was which left just enough wiggle room
00:04:45.800 for the Lady Jane Grey scenario to happen. Henry VIII's younger sister Mary who we talked about
00:04:52.680 in the first episode of this podcast she married Charles Brandon their daughter Frances Brandon
00:04:58.440 married Henry Gray and that's where the gray girls come from in this situation so really
00:05:06.280 if you want to narrow it down the whole reason that things got so chaotic was firstly
00:05:10.640 that Edward King Henry the eighth son died at age 15 and he wasn't married and he didn't have
00:05:16.700 children so and just every literally every other possible heir was a girl or a woman
00:05:23.060 which meant that just a lot of men were freaking out about who they were going to put in place
00:05:29.820 like none of them specifically wanted a woman to be in charge but it was going to have to be there
00:05:33.880 was like if you shook this family tree there's no boys or men anywhere on it except in the scottish
00:05:39.200 catholic branch but nobody wanted them anyway so it was entirely unprecedented
00:05:43.380 that the only possible candidates to take the throne after edward were female and the reason
00:05:49.800 why his sisters, Mary and Elizabeth, weren't the obvious choices right now was because they had
00:05:56.680 been at various times made illegitimate. So their claims weren't 100% clear and perfect. And also
00:06:04.800 because Edward in his will had stated that he wanted Jane Grey to be his heir. So this was
00:06:10.020 around the same time that notorious misogynist John Knox, who was a preacher who I'll probably
00:06:16.100 talk about more at length in one of the many episodes i have on my patreon where i talk about 0.97
00:06:20.960 men who suck he preached things like quote it is more than a monster in nature that a woman should 0.98
00:06:27.640 reign and bear empire over man so it really is for a women hating preacher it was a good time 1.00
00:06:33.360 because there's lots of women for him to hate being queens all over the place this is also
00:06:37.780 time of ferocious battles between catholics and protestants because of the whole henry the eighth
00:06:43.160 breaking off from Rome situation. But all English subjects understood that their monarch was chosen
00:06:49.620 by divine right, e.g. whoever God, like whoever the king was, was because God had chosen them.
00:06:57.420 And if it had to be a woman, then everyone had to figure out, well, which woman do we think 0.61
00:07:01.660 God wants in this scenario? So we know we're going to get into Lady Jane Grey, about whom we know a 0.97
00:07:08.740 lot from firsthand sources like her diaries and letters, which helped to shape. So we know not
00:07:14.500 just who she is in name and what happened to her, but also what she was like and what she wrote
00:07:18.920 about. One of the main sources that I used for preparing this is a non-the biography, Crown of
00:07:25.060 Blood, The Deadly Inheritance of Lady Jane Grey. And then also there's a book, The Sisters Who
00:07:30.740 Would Be Queen, The Tragedy of Mary Catherine and Lady Jane Grey by Leanna Delisle, two sources that
00:07:36.720 I looked at in putting this all together and the sources I looked at were all both using a lot of
00:07:44.120 first-person accounts from people who were around at the same time so just to set the scene for what
00:07:50.380 is happening just because all this sort of background stuff is important to understand what
00:07:57.620 how and why all of this stuff happened so in 1547 Edward VI was crowned king at age nine years old
00:08:06.320 after the death of Henry VIII.
00:08:10.300 He was around the same age as his cousin, Jane Grey,
00:08:14.740 and Edward was a very devout Protestant,
00:08:17.620 continuing his father's legacy to maintain.
00:08:19.940 This is the official religion of England.
00:08:22.180 His older half-sister, Lady Mary,
00:08:24.640 who was, I think, in her 30s by this point,
00:08:27.340 that's the future Queen Mary,
00:08:28.600 was a Catholic while Edward's other half-sister,
00:08:31.060 Lady Elizabeth, was Protestant like him. 0.98
00:08:34.040 Edward was a sickly person, 0.86
00:08:35.620 so this made his various advisors uneasy because if he died without naming an heir 0.74
00:08:40.620 then his he would be succeeded by his catholic sister who nobody wanted
00:08:46.160 and it was possible at this point because she was in her 30s and she also had a lot of various
00:08:51.720 illnesses so it's possible that she might die without an heir and then the whole question
00:08:56.520 would just be like who's going to be the king and or queen now so she was to a lot of people
00:09:00.860 not an ideal candidate to succeed him and one of Edward's advisors was John Dudley who we talked
00:09:08.100 about last time a little bit he was a highly ambitious and scheming aristocrat who was very
00:09:15.380 influential over the king so it's partly Dudley's influence that led to Edward deciding to make his
00:09:21.160 own document lining out who he wanted what the new line of succession was going to be this was
00:09:26.960 one that would discount both of his sisters on the basis of them being kind of illegitimate
00:09:32.960 to some people. He also continued what his father had said and didn't let any of the Scottish
00:09:38.660 claimants become possible here. That's the Mary Queen of Scots of it all. And that's a whole 0.87
00:09:44.820 other season of the podcast, I'm sure. But what this will meant was that Edward's direct successor
00:09:51.040 would be from the Gray family of which Jane was the oldest so it was gonna need to be her so she
00:09:57.880 had been born in 1537 and her parents were Francis Gray and Henry Gray so her grandmother was Mary
00:10:06.140 Tudor King Henry the Eighth Sisters so she was raised as a very privileged very wealthy person
00:10:12.920 her childhood was typical for an aristocratic girl of this time and era she was the oldest of
00:10:19.420 three sisters. The other ones were Catherine and Mary, and we're going to learn about them
00:10:23.480 in later episodes. So they were raised on the family's country estate while their parents
00:10:27.960 hung out in London, hanging out at royal court and that sort of thing. The first time that Jane
00:10:32.780 is mentioned in any historical record in any major way was at age 10. She was sent to be a
00:10:39.080 lady-in-waiting to Henry VIII's sixth wife, Catherine Parr. So this was when Catherine Parr
00:10:48.700 had just married thomas seymour so henry the eighth was dead jane went off to be lady-in-waiting
00:10:55.540 to katherine parr who's now living with her new husband so it was likely in this household so
00:11:00.660 katherine parr we talked about before but she was a keen scholar super intellectual person and so
00:11:05.560 she had a house where they had lots of events you know people would do debating different religious
00:11:09.760 facts and stuff so it was a very it was an environment that really showed jane kind of what
00:11:16.280 what an intellectual life could be maybe what a woman's life could be like
00:11:21.420 and Jane was a very scholarly intellectual sort of person so she clearly flourished in this in 0.56
00:11:28.480 this environment Elizabeth the future Queen Elizabeth I who was also similar age of Jane
00:11:34.020 also lived in the house at the same time and she was also a very intellectual person so Jane left
00:11:39.940 her family home to live in this just really in many ways ideal situation for her just around
00:11:46.200 this influential woman, Catherine Power, who is best friends with Catherine Willoughby,
00:11:50.760 Jane's step-grandmother. So just getting to meet a lot of scholars, academics, and just women
00:11:55.900 who were really intellectual and really vibrant and very much doing their own thing. Unfortunately, 0.65
00:12:02.640 in the same household was Thomas Seymour, who, if you are a member of my Patreon,
00:12:09.180 you can find there, I did a whole special episode just about Thomas Seymour and how he was the worst.
00:12:13.840 I have a thing on the Patreon so this asshole which are many podcast episodes about some of
00:12:19.180 the gross men from these stories and I put that information in those many episodes so as to not 0.86
00:12:24.160 derail these main episodes too much by talking about how gross these men are but Thomas Seymour
00:12:29.920 was awful and eventually so Jane wasn't living in Catherine Parr's house for
00:12:35.280 for years and years it was a pretty short time comparably because Catherine got pregnant and
00:12:42.220 then she died in childbirth and then Thomas Seymour ended up trying to kidnap the king
00:12:47.000 except the king was rescued by a dog I get into this on my other podcast and Jane was sent back to
00:12:53.880 live with her parents so at this point we learn more about what she was like and what she was
00:13:00.560 like was a very opinionated uh some might say self-righteous teenage person and this is this
00:13:10.540 is what her personality was like but I think also having been in the house of Catherine Parr
00:13:13.960 would have helped her realize that this is the sort of person who she wanted to be she wanted
00:13:19.540 to be someone who could debate religious stuff and lecture people all the time so she criticized
00:13:24.100 her parents lifestyle her parents were big spenders who like throwing parties and Jane
00:13:28.640 thought that they should be more religious sorts of people she voiced her displeasure to house
00:13:34.820 guests so she complained about her parents to people who are visiting them she even apparently
00:13:40.400 requested that the local chaplain use his sermons at mass to call out her parents for being such
00:13:46.160 frivolous people that should be more serious so she was really this is the thing about lady jane 1.00
00:13:51.200 gray it's not she's well known and then especially in like artwork and stuff for being this like poor 1.00
00:13:57.840 victimized 16 year old who all these terrible things happen to but she was also and i mean 0.97
00:14:01.760 this in the most delightful way just like a real asshole and i i love how much her personality and 0.61
00:14:09.020 character comes through she ended up being used by a bunch of people but she was always entirely 0.96
00:14:15.820 herself like even if that meant that she was sort of unpleasant at times so her extreme piety
00:14:22.060 was such that religious scholars of the day wrote about her admiringly um saying how she was this
00:14:29.080 is you know young women should be like this so she was really leaning into a sort of personality
00:14:33.700 and a sort of persona that was appealing to the people who she wanted to be accepted by,
00:14:39.320 which were religious scholars, although it was probably annoying for her parents. But you know
00:14:43.400 what? She was what at this point, like 14, 15 years old. So like, oh, surprise, she was kind
00:14:49.680 of acting out a little bit like everybody does at that age. Meanwhile, John Dudley had decided
00:14:55.640 that he thought, so the king is still alive, little boy king Edward is still there. And he
00:15:01.180 had these gross advisors, one of whom was John Dudley. And John Dudley was trying to find ways
00:15:06.840 that he himself could be more powerful. And he thought, okay, well, if I marry my son to Jane
00:15:11.920 Gray, maybe that could work out for me. So he was sort of thinking he wanted Edward to name Jane as
00:15:20.640 his successor, which I forget at this point if he had or not, but whatever. Dudley wanted him to,
00:15:26.440 and he did so what John Dudley wanted to do was get himself closer to the crown and so what he
00:15:31.140 decided to do is to marry Jane to his son Guildford which is a great name Guildford Dudley it's just a
00:15:39.280 good name it looks nice it sounds nice and in the movie version of the story Lady Jane he's played
00:15:44.340 by Carrie Elwes so he looks nice so Jane's parents who were always happy for to get new opportunities
00:15:52.260 to advance their daughter especially jane um as their eldest and she's kind of the most
00:15:57.380 she was the smartest and the most talented and they really put all their hopes and dreams onto
00:16:01.340 her so they thought okay this is a good match like marrying john dudley said gilford is good
00:16:05.920 good for them um gilford was around her age apparently he was handsome potentially less
00:16:12.380 terrible than other husbands she might have wound up with but jane both feared and mistrusted
00:16:18.700 john dudley for obvious reasons john dudley was a huge schemer and just not trustworthy person
00:16:26.340 at all but she was 16 and this was the 16th century so she really wasn't able to stop this
00:16:33.900 from happening and so they were married these two teenagers on may 25th 1553 so you might recall
00:16:41.600 she was queen in 1553 so it this turns into sort of a ticking clock of just how fast all these
00:16:47.780 events happen one after another so the first major date here is may 25th 1553 so at their wedding
00:16:53.840 the boy king edward was invited but he was too ill to attend and it was actually he was sick
00:17:00.100 at this point with the same bout of illness that would eventually kill him or that he would die of
00:17:04.700 he had been at this point finalizing his own wishes saying that jane would be his heir although
00:17:11.320 jane herself i don't think knew that at this point and just to know why he would have chosen
00:17:16.620 jane specifically to be his heir instead of her mother because if you're going kind of in family 0.97
00:17:22.480 tree order her mother would be the next one francis jane's mother was not an ideal queen 1.00
00:17:27.980 firstly because presumably she was past childbearing age although she would have a 1.00
00:17:33.640 few more pregnancies later on but everything really hinged on someone having a male child
00:17:39.040 and at this point i think you'd want someone to have like 12 male children so this sort of
00:17:42.780 situation wouldn't happen ever again but the main thing in against Francis as a potential heir is
00:17:48.540 that she was already married and there's that whole thing about like yeah a woman can be queen
00:17:53.140 but whoever her husband is is kind of actually in charge and Henry Gray was also Francis's husband
00:17:58.740 was seen as untrustworthy so he'd kind of be in control and that was not what Edward or his
00:18:05.880 advisors wanted. So the document ended up saying, I think the wording is like, the Lady Jane and
00:18:14.420 her heirs male as Edward's successor. And then he died, Edward, King Edward, shortly after this
00:18:22.640 paperwork was finalized. He died of tuberculosis on July 6th, 1553. So that's about a month and
00:18:28.680 a half after Jane married Guildford Dudley. So at this point, things are going well for
00:18:33.880 john dudley jane's father-in-law because his new daughter-in-law would be now named queen meaning
00:18:39.600 his son would be king meaning that guildford would kind of be the one who's in charge of everything
00:18:43.500 but you know john dudley would be the actual person making all the decisions behind the scene
00:18:48.240 but the main issue with this plan of john dudley's to become extremely powerful is the fact that
00:18:56.340 Mary, King Henry VIII's oldest daughter, was still on the scene. She was alive and she was also
00:19:03.840 really popular. So the thing with Mary, the future Queen Mary, is that she was the daughter of Henry
00:19:11.200 VIII and his first wife, Catherine of Aragon. And Catherine of Aragon had been really popular. She
00:19:15.540 was queen for a really long time. I want to say decades. Let me just check. Because the whole 0.76
00:19:20.600 thing of Henry VIII became the king when he was young and handsome and everybody was really
00:19:25.120 excited about it. Catherine of Aragon was his young, beautiful wife. Yeah, she was Queen of
00:19:29.080 England from 1509 until 1533. So she was the queen for a really long time. People really loved them
00:19:36.020 as this young, hot couple. Their daughter, Lady Mary, everybody loved too. So Mary was popular
00:19:44.100 on her own because she was kind of the child of this queen who everybody still had fond feelings
00:19:51.840 about so she was still there and to make jane be the queen instead of mary like when jane was not
00:19:58.640 famous jane was not beloved i mean she's no one knew who she was so this is a challenge lady mary
00:20:03.500 was a mighty opponent so john dudley couldn't make the british subject stop supporting mary
00:20:09.580 but he hoped that maybe by sort of hiding mary away would make people like forget about her
00:20:14.300 so he sent out a messenger for mary asking her to come to be by her dying by the dying king's
00:20:19.960 bedside which is like okay you know edward was dying he sent a letter like come be with your
00:20:24.620 little baby brother but on the way there mary received word that this was actually a trap and
00:20:28.840 so she doubled back she didn't show up so he wasn't able to kind of kidnap her and hide her
00:20:33.780 away john delete tried to track her down but he was not able to because guess what she was actually
00:20:37.920 pretty great too his whole plan to sort of steal control of the country was it was predicated on
00:20:44.560 sort of like a surprise attack so he just kind of kept going with it because that was his entire
00:20:48.680 strategy he was hoping that he'd kind of throw so much change like so many new things at the country
00:20:54.360 all at once that they wouldn't have time to miss mary i guess so on july 9th so again the king 0.97
00:21:00.740 died on july 6th on july 9th john dudley had mary and elizabeth both publicly declared bastards 0.97
00:21:07.580 illegitimate at this point and he also highlighted how dangerous mary in particular was because she
00:21:13.980 was catholic and she had ties to foreign catholic countries so he's just sort of paving the way for
00:21:19.640 this surprise reveal that jane gray was going to be the new queen jane meanwhile did like literally
00:21:25.660 i think did not know that this that she was going to be the heir to the throne everyone just assumed
00:21:30.780 it would be mary so she was still coping with her very new marriage to gilver deadly
00:21:35.320 they'd been married for again like a month and a half at this point so unlike in the film lady jane
00:21:41.320 which again, I heartily recommend. It is a really sweet and good movie. And I randomly caught it on
00:21:47.380 TV once decades ago. And it's one of the reasons why I fell in love with studying the Tudor period
00:21:52.640 because Helena Bonham Carter and Carrie Elwes are so sweet in this movie. And they show this really
00:21:57.960 sweet love story between them. But in real life, it was not a sweet love story. In fact, Guildford
00:22:02.020 was awful. And Jane did not want to be married to him. And it was not a love story. And she would
00:22:07.560 probably hate the movie, but it's a good movie. So Jane despised her husband. She despised the
00:22:13.140 entire deadly family. Remember how much she was critical of her own family. The deadlies were
00:22:17.340 like that, but even more so just like not, you know, religious enough, not godly enough. They're 0.94
00:22:22.900 always scheming and things. So she almost immediately ran back home to be with her
00:22:28.240 parents. Like she ran away from her marriage entirely. At one point she fell ill. Well,
00:22:36.060 So she went back to her parents and they made her go back to the Dudleys, obviously, because that's what they had kind of sold her off to be married to them.
00:22:44.560 So, of course, they wanted her to go back there.
00:22:47.060 At one point, she felt ill and she accused the Dudley family of trying to poison her, which is it's an interesting twist.
00:22:55.520 I don't think that the Dudleys would have tried to poison her because John Dudley's entire plan was predicated on her becoming queen.
00:23:02.060 he would not want to have killed her. But who knows, everybody, there's a lot of schemes going
00:23:06.920 on. Anyway, so after the king had died, Jane rode with her sister-in-law, so one of the deadly
00:23:14.660 sisters, to one of the deadly family estates just to like, I don't know, visit with the family and
00:23:20.380 stuff. But as soon as she arrived, she was greeted by her family, like the greys, as well as all of
00:23:26.660 the deadlies and a number of important aristocrats. And she's like, what's going on? Why is everybody 0.98
00:23:30.820 here and it was at this point she was told that the king had died and that she jane gray was now
00:23:36.600 the queen her documented reaction because people who saw it wrote down what it was like
00:23:42.440 she was not happy about this she's not even kind of like accepting you know just like with
00:23:48.580 resignation like okay i guess but as they all knelt before her being like you're the queen
00:23:53.420 she apparently said she was insufficient for the task she didn't want to do this she didn't think
00:23:59.340 she should do this but she said a quick prayer promised to fulfill god's will and take the
00:24:04.760 throne so the whole god chooses the queen thing i guess she was like okay this is i don't want this
00:24:11.020 i don't think this is right but if god wants it then here we go overall her lack of enthusiasm
00:24:15.900 was noted by the people who were there they were confused by this and kind of dismayed
00:24:21.020 that she seemed to take this news kind of like they're like okay jane we need to like 0.56
00:24:26.600 I don't know we need to you know cut off all your arms and legs she's like I guess if you have to
00:24:31.220 okay go right ahead it was just not something she seemed at all interested in but it was something
00:24:36.080 that she agreed to do so July 10th 1553 this is what four days after Edward had died Jane was
00:24:44.200 brought to Westminster Abbey and then to the Tower of London at this on a barge which was the custom
00:24:50.040 for all new sovereigns sort of a parade an eyewitness account of her arrival said quote
00:24:55.820 or she said that she was quote very short and thin but prettily shaped and graceful
00:25:02.220 she has small features and a well-made nose the mouth flexible and the lips red the eyebrows are
00:25:08.100 arched and darker than her hair which is nearly red her eyes are sparkling and reddish brown in 0.96
00:25:13.260 color her complexion was good unmarked by the pox but freckled she had sharp white teeth and a
00:25:18.800 lovely smile her husband guildford was a very tall strong boy with light hair clothed in white
00:25:24.460 and silver velvet who paid her much attention and then here's a really important thing so that same
00:25:30.220 day jane was moved into the royal apartments in the tower of london so side note the tower of
00:25:34.740 london was not like a jail at this point it was just another palace so she was moved in there
00:25:39.620 and she was brought a sampling of royal jewels to try on including the crown john dudley was there
00:25:46.060 urging her to try on the crown but she refused several times she just felt uncomfortable about
00:25:50.760 it. She thought putting on the crown, she didn't want to do it. She felt weird about it for good
00:25:56.960 reasons, which we will see. She finally agreed to have the crown put on her head, but she never
00:26:02.280 actually requested it. So this is that detail becomes important later on, which is a weird
00:26:08.820 detail, but just bear in mind, she never actually said, put the crown on my head. She just allowed
00:26:13.140 someone else to do it. So in the course of the conversation, Dudley casually mentioned that his
00:26:17.800 son, Guildford, would get a crown, too, after Jane made him king, because men weren't automatically
00:26:23.800 named kings when their wives became queens. The queen had to decide to do this, but the assumption
00:26:29.240 was that she would decide to do this. Jane, already, I just love this, that John Dudley had
00:26:35.060 all these, all his plans were all set up, but he hadn't accounted for the fact that Jane Grey had
00:26:39.660 her own personality and her own opinions and was not one to be led. She was not a good puppet 1.00
00:26:45.320 figure so jane said that she might name guildford a duke but that was it she was not going to name
00:26:52.060 him a king guildford then freaked out about this he brought in his mother his mother screamed at
00:26:58.640 jane but jane would not change her mind because she was great she was the 16 year old girl with
00:27:05.600 very strong opinions and i think from even just the brief times when with katherine parr and
00:27:11.320 probably from her the influence of seeing someone like ann ask you who just stuck to her guns she
00:27:17.580 had developed this personality for herself that was very opinionated and very confident in her
00:27:23.300 choices so then word came to jane that guilford and his mother were trying to flee she had guards
00:27:29.820 stand by the exits to keep them inside so she was they thought that they were going to be able to
00:27:34.860 boss around but in fact she was the boss and this is a nice moment two days later on july 12th
00:27:41.320 John Dudley announced that he was going to muster an army and putting in charge of that was Henry
00:27:46.600 Grey, Jane's father. So the army was going to go off to fight against Mary, I think, who is still
00:27:53.000 very intent on trying to become queen instead of Jane. So Jane burst into tears, not wanting her
00:28:00.160 father to go to war or burst into tears because everything is happening really fast and this is a
00:28:05.400 wild situation. So the council decided to send, instead of her father leading the army, they sent
00:28:10.540 john dudley to lead the forces instead i want to mention too that her mother francis was here with
00:28:15.980 her this whole time supporting her so even though jane had been at times critical of her mother
00:28:21.100 francis was right there with her supporting her so it it does follow maybe that jane didn't want
00:28:26.260 her father to go off to war she was in the scary situations of course she wanted her parents there
00:28:30.060 with her so these troops headed out across the country finding themselves in town after town
00:28:36.020 which had decided on their own not to accept jane as queen but rather to declare lady mary
00:28:40.500 as the true ruler so john dudley was leading these forces who were supposed to go around
00:28:44.940 quashing these rebellions these pro-mary rebellions but he couldn't stop the popular
00:28:50.400 opinion he just hadn't counted for how strongly people really supported mary in this situation
00:28:58.100 so even those who were opposed to catholics could somehow sense the unfairness of jane
00:29:02.160 being crowned instead of Mary so there just wasn't they didn't have the popular the popular opinion
00:29:08.340 on their side the wind had clearly shifted back in London as well so while John Dudley was off
00:29:12.800 with his troops members of the Privy Council attempted to flee the palace because they felt
00:29:16.760 like if they were there caught supporting Jane they might get in trouble because everyone at
00:29:20.320 this point was assuming Mary was probably going to take over somehow again Jane had guards keep
00:29:25.380 them inside and she also locked the main gates of the tower to prevent anyone from escaping the
00:29:29.860 members of the Privy Council finally snuck out one way or another.
00:29:33.120 They ran into a Spanish ambassador and claimed to have always supported Mary, actually,
00:29:37.940 and they said they were forced against their will by Dudley to back Jane.
00:29:42.280 So everyone is just fleeing from supporting her entirely.
00:29:46.940 Jane was then eating supper with her father when she learned that she had been deposed as queen.
00:29:52.620 So what had happened was that Mary had her, she put together her own forces and army,
00:29:58.940 and they were coming towards they were just coming to seize power effectively and the support for
00:30:05.560 jane was so insignificant at this point that mary it was it was a bloodless attack like there wasn't
00:30:11.820 even a battle jane's troops just kind of gave in right away because mary had the support of
00:30:17.420 literally the whole country so her father went back to his home in london leaving jane alone
00:30:26.000 she was removed from the royal apartments and brought to a different castle while everyone
00:30:31.100 tried to figure out what to do with her now because mary had was queen jane was not anymore 0.59
00:30:38.940 so jane was brought to a different palace while everyone tried to figure out what to do with her
00:30:42.720 mary was accepted by basically everyone as the true queen and was en route to the tower of london
00:30:47.860 to officially take over john dudley and his entire family were arrested and jane's parents
00:30:53.400 were arrested too briefly but the greys were released pretty soon after although jane was still
00:31:01.100 kept there when mary arrived on august 3rd the crowds were cheering everybody was excited to see
00:31:06.640 her and she ordered jane gray to be imprisoned in the tower of london jane herself appealed to
00:31:12.500 mary in a letter outlining how she had never wanted any of this she accepted it was a mistake
00:31:17.920 to accept the crown so remember earlier when they tried to put the crown in her head and she said
00:31:23.360 no. And then finally they put the crown on her head. Like the issue here is putting the crown
00:31:26.620 on her head. That was the act of treason, having the crown be put on her head. So Jane said it was
00:31:32.120 a mistake. I shouldn't have let them put the crown on my head. And she said she was misled by others
00:31:35.700 into thinking this was the right thing to do. Mary, for her part, believed that Jane was guiltless
00:31:40.520 in this. Like she knew that it was all John Dudley and other people scheming. Jane was just kind of
00:31:44.540 caught up in it. And Mary was reluctant to put Jane to death because she felt like Jane was
00:31:50.800 innocent and all of this although she mary had no such doubts about john dudley who was put to
00:31:56.200 death in august that august what is it now it's mary arrived on august 3rd later that same month
00:32:02.360 john dudley was put to death for engineering this whole situation so jane's imprisonment was not
00:32:09.400 it was in terms of imprisonments it was like an okay one she was permitted to have a small
00:32:15.620 salaried staff and allowance and the freedom to go read and go for walks in the queen's garden
00:32:20.360 So again, she was such a big reader and an intellectual and a scholar.
00:32:24.540 So she spent much of her time either reading or writing.
00:32:27.200 And it's through her writing from this period that we know as much as we do about her life
00:32:30.640 and her feelings about things.
00:32:32.800 Eventually, though, what happened is that Mary came to accept that Jane's continued
00:32:36.780 survival would always be a threat to her power. 0.85
00:32:39.780 So Mary was Catholic. 0.86
00:32:40.640 When she became queen, she made England be a Catholic country again.
00:32:44.960 But there were lots of people who would rather it be a Protestant country.
00:32:47.620 And as long as there was a potential heir who could be a Protestant queen, that would always mean that there was people in opposition to Mary's reign. 0.55
00:32:55.920 So Jane, Jane was a threat as a, even just if she was sitting, you know, wandering the gardens, reading books, even just as a figurehead, she was a threat to Mary's power. 0.63
00:33:06.200 And also the fact that she had been named queen, it was, it was seen to as sort of like a sign of weakness if Mary let her survive.
00:33:14.960 so reluctantly mary ordered jane guildford and the other deadly brothers to stand trial for the
00:33:21.700 charge of high treason this trial was quick so each of the defendants pled guilty to the charge
00:33:27.640 and then were sentenced to death however it was widely believed that jane's sentence would never
00:33:32.660 actually be carried out her family had all converted back to catholicism and regained
00:33:37.860 their position of privilege we talked about this last time about how her mother francis had worked
00:33:42.240 so hard to really regain the family's reputation again. So Francis and Jane's sisters were given
00:33:47.940 positions as ladies of waiting to the queen, and her mother was specifically noted as one of Mary's
00:33:52.840 favorites, and the two of them had been longtime friends. So Jane was sentenced to be executed,
00:33:58.760 but everyone kind of thought that was like theoretically only. But then, of course, things went
00:34:04.540 poorly. Mary at this point was still unmarried, and she really wanted to marry the king of Spain,
00:34:11.400 which despite the fact that she had been basically acclaimed queen because everybody loved her so
00:34:17.680 much marrying the king of spain was a very unpopular thing for her to do it soured public
00:34:23.300 opinion against her her advisors didn't want her to marry the king of spain her the people of
00:34:28.160 england didn't want her to marry the king of spain just no one was a fan of this situation
00:34:31.560 so again uprisings in the countryside began to rally against her which meant that jane's role
00:34:36.200 as a figurehead started to become an actual threat, not just a theoretical threat, to Mary
00:34:41.680 as queen. Making things worse, Jane's father joined in with this rebellion, actively working
00:34:48.440 to try and depose Mary, which was just a bad decision on his part, obviously. And yet Mary
00:34:54.960 was still reluctant to actually execute her cousin, Jane Grey. Mary sent a prominent Catholic scholar
00:35:01.220 to speak with Jane in hopes of convincing her to convert to Catholicism, which would basically
00:35:05.920 save her life because if Jane publicly said she was Catholic, then she wouldn't be a Protestant
00:35:10.060 rival and then it wouldn't be an issue. But the thing is, Jane had at this point been basically
00:35:16.560 preparing her whole life for this conversation, for somebody to challenge her religious faith.
00:35:20.940 So she would look up to her heroines like Anne Eskew or Catherine Parr. And so she very capably
00:35:27.700 rebutted every debate point over several hours with this person who was trying to make her be
00:35:32.820 catholic and in fact she was so good at this debate and made such an impact on her visitor
00:35:37.300 that their visit concluded and she obviously had not converted to catholicism but he was so
00:35:43.620 won over by her that he offered to escort personally escort her up the scaffold for
00:35:47.800 her execution and the date was set for her beheading on february 12th 1554 so jane was
00:35:56.560 very organized in preparing for her death like she accepted this was going to happen and again
00:36:00.600 And this is where I feel like she would have looked to the writing and the work and the
00:36:04.140 example of Anne Askew of just accepting your death and becoming sort of a martyr for your
00:36:09.940 faith and finding strength in accepting this.
00:36:13.500 So Jane organized every aspect.
00:36:15.580 She chose her dress.
00:36:16.480 She wrote a speech, decided which members of her staff would dispose of her body.
00:36:21.500 So from where she was being kept in the Tower of London, she witnessed the execution of
00:36:25.600 her husband, Guildford Dudley, and she watched as they constructed the scaffolding for her
00:36:29.340 own execution.
00:36:30.600 When she appeared for her own execution, she is said to have been poised and dignified, dressed all in black, carrying her own beloved prayer book.
00:36:39.780 So again, I really feel like following the example of Anne, well, Anne Askew couldn't walk at the time, but she was very poised and very, very stoic in the face of execution.
00:36:51.380 so her execution was witnessed by only a small crowd out of respect for her royal blood because
00:36:57.840 she was the granddaughter of henry the eight's sister so at the top of the scaffold jane gave
00:37:03.560 prepared remarks she admitted to committing treason by again like her crime was letting
00:37:10.580 people put the crown on her head then she recited a psalm things were going as she had planned as
00:37:17.000 she had organized for herself until the executioner stepped towards her to take her
00:37:20.680 cloak. It was a custom at the time of the executioner to get to keep the victim's outer
00:37:25.980 garments. I guess that was just a perk of the job of executioner. But Jane either didn't know this
00:37:31.760 or forgot about it. She was surprised that he wanted to take her cloak. And so she jumped back
00:37:35.260 asking him to leave her alone. The executioner did kind of what he's supposed to do, which is he
00:37:40.280 knelt before her begging forgiveness, which is just kind of part of the theater of an execution.
00:37:47.000 jane granted forgiveness because that was part of what she was supposed to do as the person being
00:37:52.360 executed and then she was overheard then asking him to dispatch of her quickly but then things
00:37:59.160 went it's just sad so jane asked the executioner for instructions about when and how to put on her
00:38:04.340 blindfold after she put it on she couldn't find the wooden block where she was to lay her head
00:38:08.600 because she was wearing a blindfold and she panicked she cried out for help asking what
00:38:13.500 shall i do where is it and this was unexpected no one had seen no one expected her to do this and
00:38:19.480 this was not what usually happened at executions and nobody on the platform came to help her and
00:38:23.820 it's just sad finally someone came up from the crowd apparently and helped guide her into the
00:38:28.400 proper position and lady jane gray's final words were lord into thy hands i commend my spirit so
00:38:36.100 she'd planned for what she wanted to have happen to her body after the execution but the church
00:38:41.680 that her body was supposed to plan for her body to be taken to had recently reverted back to
00:38:46.160 Catholicism under Mary, and so her body may no longer be welcome because she was Protestant.
00:38:52.840 And so her remains, her body remained on the ground, exposed for almost four hours as people 0.92
00:38:57.160 sorted out where they could take it. Her servants kept an eye on her body during this time.
00:39:02.180 Finally, they were permitted to bring her body to the now Catholic Church, where she was laid to
00:39:06.660 rest between two other beheaded queens, Henry VIII's second and fifth wives, Anne Beland and
00:39:12.040 Catherine Howard. Her father was executed 11 days later. Just a few years later, Queen Mary died
00:39:18.800 without children and Elizabeth ended up taking over as queen after her. She made the country
00:39:23.920 Protestant again. And at this point, Jane Grey was celebrated as a martyr to the Protestant faith.
00:39:31.640 and that's the weird story of lady jane gray aka how to lose a queen in nine days
00:39:39.980 so we're gonna score her now on the scandalous scale and as per everybody this season it's it's 0.94
00:39:47.320 a challenging and interesting and different sort of thing to look at because she wasn't somebody 0.67
00:39:50.940 who like her actions were scandalous for the time like becoming queen like putting a crown
00:39:57.900 in your head was apparently worthy of execution so we're looking at how scandalous was this given
00:40:03.840 the place and time so scandalousness is where we look at kind of what of the the scandalousness of
00:40:11.000 the story how um extreme was it kind of how juicy is it how much of a story was it that people would
00:40:16.620 gossip about later and honestly i'm gonna give this a 9.5 jane gray gets that because
00:40:22.760 oh I might even give her a 10 because she wasn't it's not like people in previous seasons who were 0.95
00:40:28.620 like murdered people or you know had secret weddings or whatever but the fact that she
00:40:33.240 became queen and this is like not that she wanted to but she accepted it like to us like okay people
00:40:40.400 kind of made her be queen and then put a crown on her head it's like what does that have to do with
00:40:44.780 her but at the time it was entirely connected to her she was the one who took the blame for it
00:40:48.920 she ended up being executed for it you know why not i'm gonna give her a full no 9.5 i think
00:40:55.760 for scandalousness for scheminess this is where we look at not just literal schemes but just sort
00:41:02.480 of how much this person had had their own plans and executed them and did them and this is where
00:41:08.320 i don't think jane gray has a lot in her story about this because she just wanted to study 0.69
00:41:14.440 religious philosophy and have debates with people like she became queen not at all because of her 0.96
00:41:20.520 own schemes like there's lots of scheminess around her and then when she became queen and
00:41:24.320 then she's like oh guess what i'm not gonna make guildford be a king like she had her plans if
00:41:28.040 she'd been queen for longer we would have maybe seen what they were but i'm gonna give her i think
00:41:32.120 just a five for scheminess which is sort of like the lowest i feel like i can go significance is
00:41:38.620 an interesting one because she wasn't not everyone recognized her as having actually been the queen
00:41:46.400 like she put the crown on so that kind of like that was treason well it was treason because
00:41:50.780 she allegedly wasn't the queen but she kind of was the first sort of queen of england which is
00:41:58.740 very significant it's tricky it's like to me personally i feel like she was a queen but she
00:42:05.940 wasn't ever actually recognized as such and it was just nine days it's tricky i'm gonna say her
00:42:12.960 significance i don't know but then also the way that she became queen like that at first it helped
00:42:18.520 galvanize support behind mary where before other people might have not supported her as a catholic
00:42:22.780 queen having jane be there made them like mary more but then they didn't like her later i'm
00:42:27.860 gonna give her a seven for significance i think the sexism bonus is where we look at how much 1.00
00:42:35.120 bullshit did she have to put up with from the patriarchy and this whole situation 0.98
00:42:40.020 is so much sexism like if she had been a man or a boy a 16 year old boy so many more people would 1.00
00:42:49.100 have been okay with her taking over if any of the people in this like if there'd been any boy
00:42:53.520 anywhere on the Tudor family tree if it was if any of the greys had been male if Mary or Elizabeth
00:42:59.860 were boys like this whole chaotic succession thing would not have happened and that's entirely
00:43:04.400 because of sexism it's not because women aren't just as capable as leaders it's just because
00:43:08.820 there's so much more respect given to a male potential monarch than to a woman so the sexism
00:43:17.220 like that's but then she did become queen so it's not like because she was a girl
00:43:22.920 she couldn't but then mary was able to so capably dispatch with her because she was a girl like if
00:43:31.260 she had been 15 year old sir james gray or lord james gray like it would have been a lot harder
00:43:38.000 for mary to defeat him so the fact she was a girl a young girl acted against her i'm gonna give her
00:43:44.140 i think a seven for the sexism bonus no eight eight for sexism bonus so let me just add this 1.00
00:43:50.560 up so that is 29.5 this is this is notable because that puts her tied at fifth place 1.00
00:43:59.960 in terms of the Scandalicious Scale. 0.52
00:44:01.760 I believe there are 20 people on this list now. 0.87
00:44:04.540 At the top of the scale is Joanna of Naples, has 33.
00:44:07.120 Currently in fifth place was Queen Anne I with 29.5,
00:44:10.360 and she is now tied with Lady Jane Grey in fifth place, 29.5.
00:44:15.020 And so that's the highest score at all this season.
00:44:17.520 The closest was Jane's grandmother, Mary Tudor, who got a 27.5.
00:44:21.760 So well-earned Lady Jane Grey. 0.99
00:44:25.320 She had a short, weird life.
00:44:27.660 she sounds like she was an interesting and strange person and she just got caught up in all these
00:44:33.100 schemes of all these other gross people and like even mary didn't even want to execute her
00:44:37.700 so that's the jane gray of it all we're going to continue on with the season because just because 0.97
00:44:43.580 jane herself was executed there were still as soon as she was executed then her sisters became
00:44:50.540 the next threat like that didn't neutralize the entire threat of the gray family so we're going
00:44:54.700 to be looking at kind of the aftermath what happened to the other descendants of mary tudor 0.84
00:45:00.440 in the after the execution of lady jane gray and that's what we'll be looking at for the next
00:45:05.960 few episodes of the season so this is the vulgar history podcast you can find us all over the
00:45:12.140 place so on instagram vulgar history pod twitter at vulgar history my writing my various writing
00:45:19.820 about historical women and that sort of stuff is all at ann foster writer.com i have a patreon
00:45:25.500 which is patreon.com slash ann foster writer and that's where you can find behind the scenes info
00:45:30.560 and also that's where i post the patreon exclusive mini episodes which are a series called so this
00:45:36.500 asshole where i just look into the gross men from these stories and just explain why they were awful
00:45:42.360 currently there's one there about thomas seymour who is just the worst and then i'm working on one 0.96
00:45:48.660 right now about robert dudley so that's we can find this all on patreon i have my you can get
00:45:54.640 merch at teespring.com stores vulgar history all these links are in the show notes but that's where
00:46:00.480 we have t-shirts and fabric face masks and dog jackets and things with some paying tribute to
00:46:08.860 the the women and girls of this podcast season and also if you go to this link is in the show
00:46:14.800 notes too, but if you go to bookshop.org, I'm maintaining a list there of all the books that
00:46:18.640 I mentioned in this podcast, the ones that I use for research purposes and just ones that I think
00:46:24.100 are good books. So thank you so much for tuning in and I'll talk to you all next time. Remember
00:46:29.500 to keep your masks on and your tits out. 0.99
00:46:44.800 The war is over and both sides lost. 0.99
00:46:51.420 Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust.
00:46:56.440 Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world,
00:47:01.080 praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.
00:47:04.340 But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.
00:47:08.660 This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.
00:47:12.120 Your torch ticks down in real time.
00:47:14.280 and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job.
00:47:18.040 This is a brutal rules-light nightmare
00:47:20.220 with a story that emerges organically
00:47:22.920 based on the decisions that the characters make.
00:47:25.600 This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s
00:47:27.960 and man, it is so good to be back.
00:47:30.340 Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark
00:47:33.320 every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern
00:47:35.360 on youtube.com slash the glass cannon
00:47:37.660 with the podcast version dropping the next day.
00:47:40.900 See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark.
00:48:10.900 the lore, there is nothing we don't cover on our show.
00:48:14.120 Right, Jeremy?
00:48:14.880 Ooh, girl, you know we are famous for rabbit holes,
00:48:17.780 Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed,
00:48:20.480 but you definitely need in your life.
00:48:22.080 So if you are looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic,
00:48:24.420 check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts.
00:48:28.260 Oh, please, not that music.
00:48:30.000 That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.
00:48:32.380 Could we get something a little bit lighter,
00:48:34.160 some lighter music here?
00:48:35.500 Are you a fan of true crime TV shows?
00:48:38.480 And what about Unsolved Mysteries,
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