Vulgar History - January 07, 2026


Jacquotte Delahaye: The Real Pirate of the Caribbean

Topics
Regency Era Sex Ed: Round Two Queen Marie-Louise Christophe: A Black Regency Era Queen

Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

22

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

22

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 hello and welcome to vulgar history a feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann
00:00:14.520 foster and happy new year we're getting into 2026 and i think it's such a fun way to start the year
00:00:21.740 with uh an interview with one of my favorite guests ever vanessa riley we're talking today
00:00:26.640 about her newest book, Fire, Sword, and Sea.
00:00:31.280 So you probably know Vanessa Riley mostly from her.
00:00:35.140 Her previous books have been mostly set in the Regency era,
00:00:38.280 which is what we're talking about this season.
00:00:39.980 Her newest book is taking a look at a different time period
00:00:43.240 and, in fact, couldn't be more exciting for me personally
00:00:46.480 because I love a lady pirate saga.
00:00:49.420 So her book is set in the 17th century in the Caribbean.
00:00:52.800 It's telling the story of real-life pirate, Jacques Delahy, and Vanessa was kind enough to join us to talk about her new book, How Do You Research a Pirate?
00:01:02.880 Famously, they don't leave a lot of written records about what they're doing, because what they're doing is secretive.
00:01:08.880 Anyway, I love talking with her about this, and please enjoy this conversation with Vanessa Riley about her new book, Fire, Sword, and Sea.
00:01:15.780 so I'm joined today by Vanessa Riley author of the new book fire sword and sea welcome Vanessa
00:01:27.740 thank you and for having me I am so excited to talk to you about this book because I love it's
00:01:34.160 no secret I love a pirate story I love a pirate saga and that is what this book is and so I just
00:01:40.620 want you to walk me through kind of like how how this book came to be so my first question is how
00:01:45.560 did you first hear about jacques de la haye am i saying that right i'm probably the last person to
00:01:52.060 actually help people pronounce i am very southern and slightly caribbean so it's like you're gonna
00:01:58.820 get a mixture of stuff um i was talking i just had a conversation with robin miles who is doing
00:02:06.500 the narration for fire short and sea so she was de la haye okay jacques de la haye sure and i was
00:02:13.860 like okay sounds good to me yeah she does so much research on the um like the pronunciation
00:02:24.840 creoles the the the accents the pronunciations that is a science all to its own so a great
00:02:34.340 narrator is so amazing especially when you're talking about these these cultures that are
00:02:41.460 sometimes seldom spotlighted, but the Caribbean is a mixing pot. Everybody is there and everybody
00:02:47.760 is trying to gain their fortunes, create new destinies. Well, and that's where I feel like
00:02:54.640 this book, just when you said that, I'm like, oh, wow, that is going to be, that narrator is going
00:02:58.700 to have to do a lot of research about different languages, different, because it's, yeah, there's
00:03:02.040 so many, so many different people in this book, because that's what it was like in the Caribbean
00:03:05.600 at that time. So Jacquot, how did you first hear about her? Do you remember?
00:03:09.740 I absolutely remember because I wasn't looking for her. I was in Jamaica, you know, as one does. It was a writing retreat. But anytime I go anywhere, I want to know about the history. 0.99
00:03:25.980 So I went to the fort at Port Royal and they took us on a tour and it was just a fabulous tour because they've done some restoration work because, you know, Port Royal, because of the age, because of the massive tsunami, you know, there are pieces missing and whatnot.
00:03:43.260 But they've reconstructed this fort. And I was in the cell where I think Mary Reed, the pirate Mary Reed, was once held. And to me, it was like, we're in the Caribbean. Are there any other, are there Caribbean women pirates?
00:04:02.240 Because I just read an article from the Los Angeles Times that said that 20 to 30 percent of the pirates in the Caribbean were African or Caribbean. 0.90
00:04:15.060 They were black on these utopia kind of ships.
00:04:19.400 So I started doing some research and the name Jaquois Delahy came to my scope and then I just dug in and tried to find everything.
00:04:30.180 she's controversial so I do think she is an amalgamation of different lives but I think
00:04:36.560 she's a very accurate portrayal of what women did in order to um to gain a footing in this world
00:04:44.340 and so and that's the research is what interests me as well because she is
00:04:49.900 well like you just said she's she's sort of an amalgamation perhaps so it's not just as easy as
00:04:55.440 like with your other books where you're like okay this person was born here like the other
00:04:58.680 historical books you've done where it's like this and this and this and this is where she grew up
00:05:01.780 it's like how how on earth did you research this snippets uh the snippet tactics so you would um
00:05:08.500 you would find her but i'd always find her in reference to anne de la vote and de la vote is
00:05:14.760 you know she's a white woman that actually was enslaved from france so france would gather
00:05:22.740 prisoners, they would gather thieves, and they would ship them out to the colonies because they 0.66
00:05:30.120 were trying to form family colonizations, you know, birth people in the Caribbean to cement the
00:05:36.160 hold. And Anne was one of these women. And Anne is highly linked to Jaquat. So finding her life
00:05:45.060 helps me put pieces of Jaquat back together. And, you know, then you find other people that she's
00:05:51.840 in league with. So there's Michelle Labasque. There is Laurence de Grapp. All these people
00:05:58.660 who are much more highly documented because they're either a man or they're Caucasian. 0.94
00:06:05.100 They're white. You put these pieces back together. So by finding her contemporaries 0.75
00:06:10.980 and then seeing how she interacted in their lives, I was able to reconstruct her life.
00:06:16.900 And so we were talking just before we recorded that the time period and the place that you're writing about was such a place of chaos, but I would also say of opportunity for people because it was really just there's all these people from all these different cultures and they're all just kind of trying to make a buck, trying to figure out how they can thrive for themselves.
00:06:39.600 So can you explain for everybody that at least, you know, the book travels around because it's a pirate, obviously.
00:06:45.720 But where does your story start and what is it like there at that time?
00:06:49.940 Her world starts in Tortuga.
00:06:51.840 So Tortuga is this little tiny island off of Hispaniola, present day Haiti, that is being fought over by France and Spain.
00:07:03.040 And the island literally goes through these waves of wars or battles where one side will knock the other side off.
00:07:10.000 And in a couple of years, the other side will come back.
00:07:12.200 And so at the moment in time where we meet Jaquan, the island is split.
00:07:17.960 So half of it is Spanish, half of it's French, but it is a pirate haven.
00:07:23.000 So pirates from all over the Caribbean are coming to Bastair, which is like the main city very close to the coastline.
00:07:32.120 of Tortuga. And that's where he finds Jaquette. The evidence I found is that her father owned a
00:07:38.060 tavern. And I know of her brother. And at some point, the father dies. It's unclear what happens,
00:07:45.980 but Jaquette is thrust in this world where she has to make a way for her, her brother.
00:07:50.980 So those are the little bits that I had. But you've got to think of Tortuga is, it's wild.
00:07:58.140 There's a huge prison up on top of one of the big hills of Tortuga.
00:08:04.180 It's, you know, one moment it's got the white sand beaches, right?
00:08:08.980 So you've got that typical tropical view, but just go into the jungles and there are traps for wild boars there.
00:08:18.220 And then you've got these retired pirates who are no longer seaworthy that the French government or the Spanish government has convinced to make plantations to settle down roots because the belief is if we can inhabit the Caribbean, we can own the Caribbean.
00:08:39.140 So at this moment in time, it's about inhabitation.
00:08:42.040 There are battles going on, but it's more between the world powers.
00:08:45.860 So in this world, you know, we think of the world powers, you know, of, you know, Britain, you know, the world, you know, the sun never sets.
00:08:54.760 Well, this is before all that. Yeah, exactly.
00:08:57.760 You know, Britain's on the come up, as I would say, you know, Britain, France, Portugal, the Dutch, all of these individuals are trying to get wealthy.
00:09:08.600 They're trying to make a name for themselves.
00:09:10.980 And piracy is legal.
00:09:12.420 So you could be a pirate as long as you don't hit my ships. 0.81
00:09:16.060 I can give you a writ that says you can steal everything in the sun. 1.00
00:09:19.580 Just give me a little percentage and we'll call it a day.
00:09:23.180 And the two world powers, the two wealthiest powers this moment, and wealth is determining,
00:09:28.700 not size of armies at this moment in time, or navies, because navies are still, they're
00:09:34.100 still figuring a lot of things out.
00:09:35.440 its wealth, and that is Spain and the Mughal Empire. To me, it was a kind of aside, which
00:09:42.060 was very funny or sad. If you go back to Hollywood, the early pirate movies have the
00:09:49.380 Mughals in it. The early pirate movies have the Mughals and the, you know, but very westernized 0.60
00:09:56.020 approach, western hero, you know, Mughal princess, that kind of thing, right? A little bit of some of
00:10:02.800 the early legend stories that have happened with, you know, Henry Avery, one of the most
00:10:08.600 successful pirates in history. So it's this weird world. And to me, it was having to divorce the
00:10:16.560 thoughts of how our present day world works, or even my most comfortable, I am very happy from
00:10:22.920 1750 to 1830. That's my jam, my lane. This was different. Everything was different. Clothing was
00:10:30.780 different expectations and roles were different and it was you know would I do it again
00:10:40.100 but it's kind of like once you're in there I'm in it to win it I'm I'm going to figure out
00:10:49.600 everything in this world I want to bring it back to you there I you know I firmly believe there's
00:10:54.160 a reason why I was given this story um and so I'm going to do everything I can to to figure out her
00:11:00.460 world so that you feel for just maybe the time you're reading the book, I got a little snippet
00:11:05.780 of what the world used to look like. What did they get right? What did they get wrong? And what can
00:11:10.980 we learn from it? Well, and that's what I found, because I would say also in my reading, even my
00:11:16.740 history research I've done, this is never, I've never looked at this particular slice of history
00:11:22.380 before. So I will say to the listeners who haven't read this book yet, like Vanessa does,
00:11:26.540 she holds your hand she explains everything like you're not just stranded in this in this
00:11:31.720 unfamiliar time period but yeah because it it is so interesting because it's when when i or when
00:11:37.640 you think about like the hollywood pirates and stuff it's often or even like pirates of the
00:11:40.720 caribbean the movies like that's a later generation of pirates this is like the og like the original
00:11:45.740 original piracy like you were saying like even when when you tell people like this is even before
00:11:51.040 england was a world power it's like oh so this is like all the way back and that's part of what i
00:11:56.320 found really interesting and sort of exciting and what makes the story unpredictable is I'm like I
00:12:00.580 don't know where this is headed like I don't know what I don't know I don't know in world history
00:12:05.940 like which power is going to come out on top at this point I don't know so it's so it's really
00:12:10.100 the sense like where Jakarta is living where it's just kind of like it's chaos and total chaos but
00:12:15.320 I find like the fact that in your book and in life like she had this younger brother who is maybe
00:12:19.340 like a special needs like disabled so it gives her it's not just her that she's worrying about
00:12:24.500 Like she's got this kid also.
00:12:26.440 So it just suddenly, she can't just like run off and have adventures.
00:12:29.820 I would imagine that was like, when you were putting the story together, you knew that
00:12:33.380 the brother was going to be an important part of it.
00:12:35.780 I knew the brother was an important, he was, you know, of all the characters, he's the
00:12:39.900 least amount of information.
00:12:42.000 So I, you know, there's points where as a researcher, I don't know what happens, but
00:12:47.960 I got a sense that to have her story, she's got to figure something out.
00:12:54.500 Her mother is dead. Her father's died. And this younger brother, what does she do? How does, so that, the natural care, when you, when you write about women, as you know, there are these zones or lanes of the natural caregiver, the natural nurturer.
00:13:13.840 And then we forget about this other lane where maybe it's not that natural.
00:13:18.780 Maybe there's a third lane of some sort of freedom.
00:13:23.380 And, you know, when we look at Jaquat, I had an amalgamation of thoughts. 0.93
00:13:30.200 What makes a woman decide to leave all this behind, to don male garb, and go pretend she's a man so that she can make some money, knowing that she could die and never come back to take care of this? 0.95
00:13:48.540 So even the short term of, I'm just going to go make some money, you are risking so many things. You don't know what's going to happen. So there's a lane that I explored with Jaquat that is kind of different than the other women. 0.96
00:14:05.680 because you know like um the book before this is is queen of exiles queen louise is a mother's
00:14:13.160 mother right she is very maternal she is worried about her children island queen dorothy kerman
00:14:20.240 thomas is extremely maternal she knows each of her kids the quirks the things that drive them
00:14:26.640 and she wants you can i felt how she wanted to make sure each one of them was successful
00:14:32.100 so the other side of that coin is someone like Jaquat where her dreams her desire to be more
00:14:41.540 than what the world is trying to tell her that this is your only lane you can only be a wife
00:14:47.160 or a wench there's nothing else I wanted to have her lane and then you have to explore well what's 0.82
00:14:53.880 that lane look like when you know that every moment you could die every moment you may not 0.88
00:15:00.400 come back. You have these grand thoughts. I'm going to get this booty. I'm going to get all
00:15:05.140 this money, come back, and I'm going to have this different world. You may not make it past
00:15:10.560 Tuesday. Scurvy will kill you because they're just now figuring out you need to put some citrus
00:15:18.500 on these boats. A splinter will kill you. They'll throw rum on you for some sort of 0.95
00:15:26.280 cleansing purposes, but sometimes they don't even have that. It's a very dangerous world. And in
00:15:31.580 any other minute, there are rebellions happening, these ships, the turnovers of who's in leadership.
00:15:38.080 It's all chaos. And I think I want to make sure that Jaquat wasn't ignorant of that. You know,
00:15:44.280 sometimes you get a hero or hero and they stumble into their thing. These have to be deliberate
00:15:50.820 decisions because nothing is fast. You can't just, oh, I'm going to go be a pirate. No,
00:15:55.000 you've got a plan. How are you going to join a pirate crew? How do you get on board these ships?
00:16:01.620 How do you gain that trust? Because at any moment they could say, oh, intruder, let's just kill him 1.00
00:16:05.740 and go. So to add that level of realism, but yet tackle the natural roles that we often find women 1.00
00:16:13.660 or limit our women characters to be, that was an incredible challenge. But it has to be addressed.
00:16:21.100 So as you say, I kind of held hands. Yeah, I'm going to hold your hands because this is a different world.
00:16:26.800 And I wanted everybody to understand and not judge any of these women or men who decide to do something different. 0.66
00:16:36.660 And piracy is legal during this. So this is an actual profession, you know, firefighter, mayor, pirate.
00:16:44.320 you can see little boys and maybe some girls are dreaming of I want to be a ship captain and I
00:16:53.800 don't want to be impressed into the British Navy or the French Navy or the Spanish Navy. I want to
00:16:59.420 do things on my own. You could see them growing up wanting to be a pirate. So it's like, it's such
00:17:05.280 a different world. And that was, you know, that's one of the biggest part challenges. It was such a
00:17:11.140 different world. And to make sure that was conveyed, that my own belief system is not
00:17:19.460 holding back the story. It was incredibly challenging. Yeah, no, that's so interesting
00:17:25.100 because talking about this was, well, is that, you know, becoming a pirate is a legitimate career
00:17:30.680 that all these people could do. It's not, when you think about now, like, you know, a bank robber
00:17:35.680 or something. It's just like, well, that's just, you don't grow up wanting to do that.
00:17:40.360 You might fall into it. And now for a quick advertising break.
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00:20:30.900 And we're back. But can you talk about the role for like Jakot, for a woman to be to be a pirate and the whole thing about disguising as a man and stuff? 0.56
00:20:41.280 But, you know, it's unlucky to have a woman on a ship and all those sorts of things. 0.54
00:20:44.240 So she's got this extra barrier where you do show in the book very, very well in the first parts. 0.99
00:20:49.240 Like you see, she's good with a ship. 0.69
00:20:51.060 She knows how to like sail a ship. 1.00
00:20:52.680 She's good with a sword.
00:20:53.700 She's got these skills, but that doesn't mean anything if you're not going to be allowed on a ship.
00:20:58.580 Exactly.
00:20:59.720 That sword, her swordsmith expertise could literally just make her a better chef in the kitchen. 1.00
00:21:07.080 Knife activities, just a better chef in the kitchen and things like that. 1.00
00:21:10.400 or be able to defend herself from drunks from her father's bar. 0.97
00:21:15.200 That expertise in weaponry, in being able to thrust and parry
00:21:23.640 and all these different mechanisms that you have to do
00:21:28.120 when you're working with swords or rapiers, 1.00
00:21:30.800 it could simply be relegated to a traditional woman's role. 0.99
00:21:37.560 She has to be more.
00:21:38.840 And Jaquat rises, you know, from the amalgamated versions or the truth versions or whatever version you find of her. She always rises to lead a mixed crew, crew of women and men and all different races. That is the common thread in her story. 0.78
00:22:00.540 so you have to her i wanted to build the story because i only got little snippets of her life
00:22:08.240 of where she is and who's interacting there's no you know chronological timeline of she was this
00:22:16.420 old when this happened that sort of thing you just get events and things and then there's also now a
00:22:22.280 lexicon of people who've gone and invented their own histories for her and you know waging through
00:22:28.580 that so it's like you have to be a special person to be able to survive the ruthless environment
00:22:36.220 and knowing that she's going to rise up the rank to rise up the rank to to you know from being a
00:22:44.800 helms an oarsman to a helmsman to somewhat of a navigator and then you know to an actual captain
00:22:52.200 You have to have real skills being able to navigate the boat. So I had to build plausible ways to get her there.
00:23:02.960 Old Jean is her mentor guide. He's an invention, but he's a tool that I use to show this is how she gains.
00:23:12.080 Because someone had to teach her how to, you know, was it Michelle LeBasque? Maybe. He may have taught her. But for the necessity of the story, I make old Jean a mentor. Because with Michelle, Michelle is a love interest. And there are other reasons why you may want to teach somebody these skills or show off these skills, etc.
00:23:35.620 I wanted it very pure, a fatherly instinct, a mentor instinct who wants nothing, absolutely nothing but the best for Jaquois.
00:23:46.700 and to put, you know, to Noah and someone who knew how dangerous the world is for not only
00:23:53.360 women, because he's seen so much things happen, but for Black women during this time frame,
00:24:01.200 to be able to relate to those different episodes that he knows she's going to have to navigate. 1.00
00:24:08.680 So we have old Jean teaching her how to, you know, how to steer a boat.
00:24:14.560 um you know she learns on her own how to handle her father's rapier two skills that are going to
00:24:22.340 be the marquee of how she's able to continue to navigate this very dangerous world and so
00:24:30.140 can you talk about the element of like again this is this time and a place that not a lot of people
00:24:34.880 are familiar with so what was the element of the slave trade that was going on in this place at
00:24:42.060 that time yes so you know there's a book called 1619 right and that is the first time enslaved
00:24:50.040 people are coming to north america right slave people were coming to the caribbean before this
00:24:56.460 time frame right side note when some trading ships were too lazy to go to africa to get slaves
00:25:07.160 they would go to mexico and just pick out the darker skinned indigenous folk and enslave them
00:25:14.540 and sell them off into the caribbean for for money um it's it's it's a crazy world 0.99
00:25:22.960 they haven't figured out yet that sugar cane is the cash crop so they're trying cotton they're
00:25:30.380 trying indigo in different places. They are trying, um, tobacco, tobacco is a huge, huge thing,
00:25:38.820 but tobacco, many of these things are stealing the nutrients from the soil. So they're not taken
00:25:45.640 off. And so it's, it's a limited factor. So you, the conditions are so harsh, they need enslaved
00:25:54.060 labor in their perspective, um, to, to, to manage these, these, these burgeoning, um,
00:26:01.660 plantations or habitations, but they haven't got the cash crop yet. There's no, there's not a mass
00:26:07.380 thing. So there's, there's not this mass need just yet at the end of the 1600s, 1690s. Oh yeah.
00:26:15.700 By then they know it's, it's, it's sugarcane, sugarcane all day long. And every, the world
00:26:19.980 has a sugar tooth so we've got to get more enslaved people but at this moment in time
00:26:25.500 you know some an enslaved person could escape they may or may not be hunted down
00:26:31.760 you know they would try and get their property back but it's not the the intensity that you see
00:26:37.600 later on of because that value that is going on but at the same time one of the most insane things
00:26:47.600 that I came upon in my research
00:26:49.760 was I was looking at log books
00:26:52.400 and they would have pewter vessel,
00:26:57.000 14 guineas.
00:26:59.100 And at the time,
00:27:00.080 I was thinking that was the coin.
00:27:02.380 It wasn't the coin.
00:27:04.320 That was the enslaved.
00:27:05.780 That was the number of enslaved
00:27:07.000 because guinea is what they called
00:27:08.420 all Africa at this point in time.
00:27:11.040 That was bodies. 0.81
00:27:13.220 And that currency,
00:27:15.980 You know, you may steal from Spain today, but the Spanish armadas may come for you. So the quickest thing to do is to convert that into cash. And cash in that moment in time are enslaved Africans, enslaved people.
00:27:36.480 And to see it just put so callously, so plainly in a ship's record or a captain's log of how he traded for a pewter bowl, not even silver gear, pewter, 14, 17 guineas.
00:27:59.440 and so it's like you know in in our present day world people try to convince you that the guinea
00:28:05.480 coin the british guinea is because they use metal from guinea no i've come across that currency in
00:28:12.200 my research before i never knew yeah that's for 16 so i was like the 1600s was insane totally insane
00:28:20.900 um it this you know people always ask me how i research these things in in mental health and
00:28:27.520 all these sorts of this really this this this this went this did some stuff I'm not gonna lie
00:28:34.860 this one was hard to shake off uh because of just the nature of the beast but um it isn't I try to
00:28:45.960 very to to be as detailed as possible as authentic as possible um but I never want you to stumble in
00:28:56.700 the narrative. So I'm explaining things, but naturally explaining things. And there was just
00:29:03.580 so much research that I wanted to put in here, but some of it, it just couldn't. But I'd put in,
00:29:11.040 you know, that the amalgamated, the extended cast is one of the ways that I use to make sure
00:29:17.660 at least subjects were broached or tucked about or seen. Well, one of the things that when we're
00:29:24.480 talking about the extended cast of the book. And I don't want to get into, um, we won't get into
00:29:29.100 spoilers at all, but there are gender things happening in this book. I mean, Jakot disguises 0.64
00:29:35.240 herself as a man for a time. Um, and then I don't know how much you want to talk about her,
00:29:40.560 the other character. Yes. Well, there's, there's, you know, there's the, the thing that I,
00:29:46.420 want people to realize is we've come up with fancy words that scare people. So if you say
00:29:56.040 certain words nowadays, you will either get flagged by Canva, which happened during this
00:30:02.820 process, or you will have people who will automatically never want to hear anything
00:30:11.260 more of this history, which is a disservice to these people. They lived. This was an incredibly
00:30:17.000 difficult, strange, and sometimes wonderful world. And there were women who dressed up as men,
00:30:28.480 embodying that lifestyle of how do I act like a man? How do I become a man, et cetera? 0.82
00:30:33.080 um there were people because there was a shortage of women in the west indies that saw other
00:30:43.480 opportunities they natural opportunities things that felt natural to them you you meet them in
00:30:50.340 the book and i don't want to prejudice anybody's thought process but you leave your 20th first
00:30:59.280 century minds behind where things have labels and i think throughout love is so rare
00:31:08.880 the world is dangerous when you find love you hold on to it i think that was my guiding principle
00:31:17.980 when i wrote this book and i it was necessary to showcase because this world is full of dichotomies
00:31:24.780 you have people making pledges no women on board but they're smuggling women on board 0.85
00:31:32.240 you you have black white indigenous people on the deck everybody pulling their weight 1.00
00:31:42.520 doing sorts of thing and you'll have chattel slavery underneath the boat 0.73
00:31:46.200 and to think about people weren't necessarily thinking about being their brother's keeper
00:31:55.760 during this time frame because it was survive how do I survive how do I live another day
00:32:02.760 that took precedence but not necessarily in a selfish way it was just more so a fact of life
00:32:09.680 and then once again you find these people um who found love who found comfort in someone else and
00:32:18.140 I believe just from someone else um and those lives those lives are shared in this book um
00:32:26.580 we have fancy words for them now I think people just said people were people and they dealt with
00:32:34.100 who they were presented with and they were comfortable with who they were comfortable with
00:32:39.160 And I want that message to really come about. But there's no apologies in this book. I wrote the lives I found, the pieces, the snippets, the things I found.
00:32:55.820 and i want those those those those individuals the brave individuals i'm i'm i'm bringing back
00:33:06.480 to life i want that to resonate because you know if we live without labels maybe we are an easier
00:33:14.160 safer place or maybe that's how we get through chaos we we drop labels and we just look at people
00:33:21.520 as being people in your book it comes across like you were saying that you could die tomorrow you
00:33:27.260 could die today like when you're living this pirate lifestyle you don't know what's going to
00:33:30.200 happen so you might as well just like be true to who you are and if you find someone to love like
00:33:34.700 hold on to it like it that makes all of the sense like there's not time in these people's lives
00:33:39.060 these pirates to to be worrying about labels or what other people think about this or that it's
00:33:44.800 just like it was can I trust this person like are they part of my crew great like then I'm on board
00:33:51.120 yeah the word metelage or now once again this is southern pronunciation but a metelage
00:33:57.040 is a formal word for a same-sex union on these boats and that helped them you know
00:34:04.280 formal they formalized it so that you knew if you died you got the person's property
00:34:09.980 you know um and and so once again when we look from our 21st century oh no this never happened
00:34:18.600 No, there's a lot of stuff that happened. We just haven't been brave enough to either acknowledge it or we have been too judgmental to see humanity for what it is.
00:34:34.440 and also i feel like these people the the people living in this era the pirates
00:34:39.300 well although i guess that they were it was a legal job at the time they weren't necessarily
00:34:44.240 outlaws but it's just like why would they prescribe to like if this if society says you
00:34:48.440 should do this and this and this it's like well why why if you're a pirate why would you pay
00:34:52.900 attention to any of those rules exactly exactly yeah you're going pirate along and do you know
00:34:59.180 you've decided to live, you know, by your wits and on your own means, you're relying on this
00:35:07.840 crew that becomes family to some respects until there's a mutiny, of course. But, you know,
00:35:17.100 that's the life you chose and everything that comes with it, you can't necessarily pick and
00:35:21.840 choose which is you know the when i discovered the the pieces about the creed that they have to
00:35:29.160 vote on like first of all they're voting on these are the rules so if you're captain you know you
00:35:39.520 can't just arbitrarily change rules and the crew they they live by this penalty that is more
00:35:45.000 important living by your bond by your word is more important than sexuality than race
00:35:52.280 than anything in this this time frame so for people who are going to read this book
00:36:00.640 what I mean you just said a lot of really lovely things about what what you hope people get out of
00:36:05.920 the book but I do want to make sure that people know that it's also just like it's a swashbuckling
00:36:09.300 adventure. There's like action sequences. There's, there's a good time. Like how, how do you describe
00:36:15.520 this book to people who maybe are a bit like, Oh, I don't know if I want to read a book about a
00:36:19.500 pirate. Like, how do you, how do you explain that it's a good time? It is a good time because it's
00:36:24.460 a swashbuckling adventure. And you rarely see when I started into my, my venture into historical
00:36:32.180 fiction i didn't realize how rare it was to see a woman leading a saga leading an adventure going
00:36:40.020 from place to place to place journeys to to to some sort of quest that is very rare you will find 1.00
00:36:47.260 you know men do quests i guess women are supposed to stay home um but here's a crew of women that
00:36:54.540 didn't want to stay home uh you're going to be invited into their lives you're going to see
00:36:59.280 the danger. You will see sometimes recklessness. You will see adventure, high seas, you know,
00:37:06.700 fate that's happening. And as always, I'm going to give you the geo-world politics. What's going
00:37:12.280 on in this world that allows for this to happen? And what are the responses that are happening?
00:37:19.500 And this is a crazy timeframe. And once again, it's before chattel slavery is really starting
00:37:28.020 to kick off so you get a moment in time where maybe the world could have chosen differently
00:37:32.820 uh you get a moment in time where you see the problems we have now are right there
00:37:40.040 right in our face and we could have chosen differently um so it's it's it's it's an
00:37:47.540 i think you're going to be if you like adventure if you like learning things even though it's not
00:37:54.360 a textbook boys and girls not a textbook um but if you like to just know a little bit more about
00:38:00.060 the world in the 1600s and these daring women who decided i want a different life i think that's
00:38:08.180 very powerful for the moment we're living in where people are choosing to want more and you know to
00:38:15.400 live vicariously through these adventures i think is an exciting thing and and we have to know
00:38:22.120 We have to know Jaquois Delahaye. We meet these women who decided to do something just very different and exciting.
00:38:34.140 Laurence de Graff, Michelle Le Basque. I mean, these are real pirates that are interspersed into our narrative.
00:38:43.140 And they're doing some, you know, they did some crazy, amazing things and we just need to know about them.
00:38:48.220 And it's January. Everyone's listening to this in January. But Halloween is not that long ago. And you always see kids dressed as pirates. That's just like there's something about that lifestyle that like kids like it really appeals to a kid. I think just a sense of like freedom and adventure. And I think we all still have that little kid inside of us who's just like a pirate. Oh, I love pirates. Like, I feel like everyone went through that phase, maybe.
00:39:11.180 yes yeah this is but this is not a kid's story it's a little violent it's not a kid's story
00:39:16.900 this is for your if you like pirates as a kid and now you're grown up this is grown-up pirates
00:39:21.900 this is yeah yeah pirates with consequences you know yeah it's not pirates of the caribbean
00:39:28.020 although they had some consequences but it's a realistic uh view of an exceptional
00:39:35.800 period of time where everything was possible and everything is against you.
00:39:43.520 So you're hanging in the balance. Which way do I turn? Which way do I go?
00:39:49.680 That's fire, sword, and sea. And I think you're going to love it.
00:39:53.020 I agree. I agree. I've read it and I agree. Thank you so much, Vanessa, for joining us to talk
00:39:58.000 about your book. It's the sort of book, you know, I don't always feel this way when I'm reading a
00:40:01.400 book, but this one, I was just like, I need to talk. I need to learn. How did you put this
00:40:04.980 together? How did, how did you, cause like there's so many, so many moving parts in this time period
00:40:11.000 and how do you come up with this story? So I was just like excited to, to get to hear the inside
00:40:15.340 scoop of how this book came to be. Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.
00:40:23.780 So I know you're all going to want to read this book and guess what? It's available. It's just
00:40:27.600 been published this week. Fire, Sword and Sea by Vanessa Riley is available anywhere you get your
00:40:32.660 books from, go to vanessareilly.com and you can get all the links as well as a book club kit for
00:40:37.920 this book. It's so good. I'm just like, want everybody to know that I'm always here for Lady
00:40:43.400 Pirate Story. And thanks again to Vanessa for joining us for this conversation. So this podcast
00:40:50.820 is Vulgar History. My name is Anne Foster, and I've written a book. Also, it's coming out in
00:40:55.860 February called Rebel of the Regency. It's a nonfiction book about a scandalous woman 1.00
00:41:00.160 from the Regency era named Caroline of Brunswick. You can pre-order this book now
00:41:07.060 at basically North America, Canada, the US. It's also available to pre-order. I'm so excited in
00:41:13.020 the UK as well as in Australia from any major bookstore basically. And you can add it on
00:41:19.580 Goodreads. You can add it on Storiograph to your TBR. And if you pre-order the book, which comes
00:41:25.040 out in like a month, it comes out February 10th, there's some pre-order goodies you can get.
00:41:29.480 you can fill out a form to get your pre-order treats at rebel of the regency.com that's where
00:41:35.000 you also get information about my book and where to order it and things like that but if you pre-order
00:41:40.620 you can get one year free membership to my sub stack one year free membership to my patreon and
00:41:45.360 a limited edition caroline of brunswick paper doll set so again just go to rebel of the regency.com
00:41:52.960 to let me know you've made your pre-order and that means when it's published next month
00:41:57.920 it'll be right there waiting for you at your local bookstore delivered to you or whatever
00:42:02.080 you choose to do i'm hoping to have information soon confirmed information about when and where
00:42:06.960 i'll be going on book tour so you can come and meet me in person um hopefully more information
00:42:12.880 about that coming soon next week we're getting back into the regency era of it all with a very
00:42:18.440 familiar guest talking about a lesser known woman from the regency era i think you're gonna really
00:42:25.040 enjoy next week's episode as well. And so until next time, keep your pants on and your tits out. 1.00
00:42:31.860 Vulgar History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Anne Foster. Editor is Christina 0.99
00:42:36.620 Lumagi. Theme music is by The Severn Duo. Regency-era artwork by Karen Moynihan. Social
00:42:42.360 media videos by Magdalena Denson. Transcripts of this podcast are available at vulgarhistory.com
00:42:47.900 by Aveline Malik. You can get early ad-free episodes of Vulgar History by becoming a paid
00:42:52.780 member of our patreon at patreon.com slash ann foster writer vulgar history merchandise is
00:42:58.240 available at vulgar history.com slash store for americans and at vulgar history.redbubble.com
00:43:04.100 for everyone else follow us on social media at vulgar history pod get in touch with me at
00:43:09.020 vulgar history pod at gmail.com legendary stories awe-inspiring sound and endless adventure welcome
00:43:20.380 Welcome to the Realms of Peril and Glory.
00:43:25.720 Explore the mechanically magical vistas of Vale,
00:43:30.400 the paranormal mysteries of liminal London,
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00:43:45.440 or be awed by our incredible guests
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00:44:12.400 Now before you go hunting for something else to listen to, let me make it easy.
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00:44:38.100 Open up Something You Should Know and give it one episode.
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00:44:44.920 hi i'm whitney and i'm katie and we're the hosts of true crime campfire we set out to make a true
00:44:52.200 crime podcast we'd want to listen to we get right to the story we don't do a lot of extra talking 0.87
00:44:57.600 and when we do it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser murderer or scammer
00:45:02.160 you'll laugh but only at the people who deserve it like which serial killer would you most like 0.98
00:45:07.340 to shove into a locker btk and his awful poetry dude got caught because he didn't understand what
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00:45:18.280 James, a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing. Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient
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00:45:28.800 thousands, and then became a romance scammer. We've covered tons of cases you've never heard
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00:45:43.280 New episodes every Friday.