Vulgar History - Marie Antoinette's Mother, Empress Maria Theresa

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00:00:30.000 Hello, and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast.

00:00:41.560 My name is Anne Foster, and the time we're all waiting for is here. We're in our Marie Antoinette

00:00:46.640 era. Every episode, we're talking about someone who's close to Marie Antoinette until we actually

00:00:51.760 start talking about Marie Antoinette. Last week, we talked about her favorite painter,

00:00:55.180 elizabeth vijay lebrun and today we're talking about her mom and just to be kind of like those

00:01:01.680 people you know those videos on tiktok that are like this is my friend and she builds legos and

00:01:06.220 you have to be nice to her and she's going to talk about her legos i've got a special guest today

00:01:10.480 it's lanawa johnson and she's here to talk about the holy roman empire and maria theresa and you

00:01:16.080 have to be nice to her because this is her favorite thing to talk about lanawa johnson

00:01:20.920 welcome thank you for having me thank you for bringing your enthusiasm on this topic to this

00:01:27.640 episode because honestly actually i want to shout out i read um in the shadow of the empress the

00:01:33.060 defiant lives of maria theresa mother of maria internet and her daughters by nancy goldstone

00:01:37.400 so i read that book and i was able to read that book first of all it was written in a very

00:01:43.640 approachable way i recommend the book but also because lana was there hand holding me and

00:01:48.280 explaining things along the way like thank god for you thank god you know this history because

00:01:52.640 it's all new to me and everyone's called maria and that can get confusing the maria is kind of

00:01:59.280 a placeholder name yeah no i came to understand that it was because so she is like a habsburg

00:02:05.320 she's from that family and their whole thing they have a real connection to like the virgin mary

00:02:10.240 like they're catholic that's pretty crucial so crucial it's very incredibly crucial we'll get

00:02:15.880 to that. Was she religiously tolerant? No. No. So everyone in her family, all of her daughters

00:02:22.580 are called Maria something, which like Marie Antoinette, when she went to France, she changed

00:02:27.060 it to Marie Antoinette instead of Maria Antonia. But exactly. Maria just means female child of

00:02:33.220 Habsburg. It's like here in Canada, in Quebec, people or French Canadians often like their names

00:02:41.300 are Marie something. And you never call them Marie. You call them by the second name. Like

00:02:45.420 that's just kind of the convention so we're gonna call her maria theresa i presume because that's

00:02:53.140 her full name and she needs to be known she's a queen she's she's an empress there's a portrait

00:03:00.580 i wanted to set that up first actually so there's a portrait i'm going to share it'll be like look

00:03:06.500 at the instagram vulgar history pot today um so everybody can see it's a portrait and it was in

00:03:11.500 the book I was reading. It was described as like, Maria Teresa poses with several of her crowns.

00:03:17.920 And I said that to you, Lana, and you're like, appropriate. I'm like, it is. Actually,

00:03:22.380 it's missing a few. It's a very reasonable number of crowns considering all of the places she was

00:03:26.900 in charge of. Okay. I just like, we're going to explain who she is and how she became in charge

00:03:31.280 of these things. But I'm just going to read you. This is the first paragraph of her Wikipedia page.

00:03:35.740 Maria Teresa was the sovereign of Austria, Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia, Transylvania,

00:03:43.340 Slavonia, Mantua, Milan, Moravia, Galicia, and Lodomeria, Dalmatia, the Austrian Netherlands,

00:03:50.720 Carinthia, Carniola, Gorizia, and Gradisca, Austrian Silesia, Tyrol, Styria, and Parma.

00:03:59.240 By marriage, she was the Duchess of Lorraine, Grand Duchess of Tuscany, and Holy Roman Empress.

00:04:04.200 just let that sink in i don't know if that by marriage holy roman empress is fair but we'll

00:04:11.020 also get into that we will get to that as well but just kind of like if you think of any of the

00:04:16.120 like netflix or hallmark christmas movies about fake um monarchies like all the all the names of

00:04:23.080 those fake countries like i feel like genovia could be in this list as well from the princess

00:04:26.920 diaries like they got those all from places she was queen of they're they're all parts of existing

00:04:32.580 countries now like they're all regions now but they're the 1800s were big on condensing we need

00:04:41.060 to get into this this is like again it's like everybody this is my friend talking about her

00:04:45.580 Legos Lana can you explain the country of Germany we know now and what it was when Maria Teresa was

00:04:54.080 around your favorite your favorite topic the funny thing about this is uh when ann was first

00:05:02.380 starting the podcast she'd run across a hapsburg and she'd be like oh hapsburgs they're all the

00:05:08.880 same and i'm like no they're not there's there's two branches to hate each other she's like no no 0.81

00:05:15.780 they're all the same like okay we'll fix this one day and today is my day i finally convinced you

00:05:22.860 There are two groups of Habsburgs.

00:05:25.000 This is really important for people to understand.

00:05:26.740 There's two groups of Habsburgs that are at war. 0.99

00:05:28.560 One of them is much more inbred than the other one. 1.00

00:05:31.880 So the one I'm thinking of, the one other people might be thinking of, is the Spanish ones. 1.00

00:05:36.480 Those are the ones who became so inbred, their mouths couldn't chew food because their faces were so fucked up. 1.00

00:05:43.900 That's the Spanish ones. 1.00

00:05:45.140 And these are the other ones.

00:05:46.160 Yeah, the Spanish ones, like, they got real deep into the inbreeding because they couldn't marry the French because they were always at war with the French and they couldn't marry the Austrians because family drama, which is weird when everybody's your family. 0.69

00:06:01.440 But the Austrians were traditionally the Holy Roman emperors for a little bit there.

00:06:08.320 The Spanish were also the Holy Roman emperors, but they couldn't maintain that and all of their other holdings.

00:06:13.900 so they kind of let it go both sides of these families are descended from uh wanna de castile

00:06:21.620 yeah wanna la loca our girl she was on this podcast um i think this episode's coming in

00:06:28.360 august so like fyi if you're in edinburgh there's a musical happening as part of the french festival

00:06:32.700 called um the queen is mad or something like that everyone should go see it it looks like

00:06:37.480 it's really good i was just like our girl our girl's getting a musical hell yeah so if you go

00:06:43.180 back to that like that's that's how far back this that's how far back the skip goes the the split

00:06:50.760 the schism yeah and so they kind of split all their holdings and the spanish and all of that

00:06:58.880 went to one side that ended up being philip the second and all of that and then on the other side

00:07:05.080 was the holy roman emperors and the austrians what we know as the austro-hungarians usually

00:07:11.020 and it's one of those the holy roman empire is goes all the way back to charlemagne and it's

00:07:19.460 like okay this is like can i just say i want to quote mike myers canada's own um from saturday

00:07:25.800 night live a long time ago the holy roman empire was neither holy nor roman nor an empire discussed

00:07:31.920 so it's not like we've talked recently on the podcast about ancient rome ancient rome fell

00:07:37.460 ended stopped and then this guy called charlemagne was like i like them i'm gonna call my place

00:07:43.280 holy roman empire but it's nothing to do with the original one except he was like inspired by it is

00:07:48.120 that right yeah he well i mean he he was going to um try to claim all of the lands that used to be

00:07:56.120 part of the holy of the roman empire and he got the pope on his side kind of sort of by bullying

00:08:03.640 i think so this is outside of my history but basically what happened is uh when he died he

00:08:09.840 had three kids and they kind of split his empire was split into parts and one of the parts the

00:08:18.420 farthest eastern part is the holy roman empire and unlike most parts it's not a single landmass

00:08:28.000 ruled by a single person through a hereditary thing as much as it looks like it it's actually

00:08:33.060 voted on by all of the member states so what is currently germany austria poland and yugoslavia

00:08:45.800 well no it's not yugoslavia anymore but what was yugoslavia the slavic republic yeah like

00:08:53.520 germany austria and a lot of the eastern bloc countries were variously owned by are ruled

00:09:01.760 or run by different groups.

00:09:06.760 So there are duchies and there are principalities

00:09:09.820 and there are kingdoms.

00:09:13.460 And so King Leopold was the king of the kingdom of Bavaria

00:09:17.800 that was a member of the Holy Roman Empire.

00:09:20.920 The Prussians were kings.

00:09:23.500 There's archduchies.

00:09:25.340 There's like all of these little bits and pieces.

00:09:27.620 And they were voting members technically

00:09:30.520 of the holy roman empire i want to say like when we're talking about like we're voting in

00:09:35.800 it's not just like a fair democratic election it's like everyone is told who to vote for and

00:09:41.180 they vote for that person and it looks a lot like a hereditary monarchy but technically it's not

00:09:45.480 it's a technically who is this important to the story like this is the only time

00:09:51.120 that that the voting is actually important to the story well that's because there's not there's not

00:09:59.200 a man right there's no boy so now yeah so we're talking 1100 years of history and now it actually

00:10:05.200 matters that that the voting is a voting thing so i want to set it up clearly but it's also

00:10:13.000 important just like just because i'm it's my nerd and it was my birthday and that's why we're talking

00:10:17.720 about this this is actually listeners this is part of my birthday present to lana is letting

00:10:22.400 her talk about her favorite thing although i do want to say i was just double checking you and i

00:10:26.740 are of a similar age and the countries we learned on the map in the 80s a lot of them aren't

00:10:31.660 countries anymore in eastern europe so yugoslavia now it was called that when we were youths

00:10:38.140 looking at maps but now it is bosnia and herzegovina croatia north macedonia montenegro

00:10:43.700 serbia and slovenia yeah and so some of these countries that we didn't think of as countries

00:10:48.400 are now countries again and it's it's been very complicated because uh colonization is

00:10:55.000 complicated and ruins lives the whole thing is complicated but what we're talking about like

00:10:59.720 globally in terms of maria theresa and the lands upon which she will rule in the course of this

00:11:06.260 story we're going to tell it's kind of like germany eastward if you're picturing the map

00:11:11.740 today is that kind of correct it's yeah and it even includes parts like not even all of italy

00:11:16.980 parts of Italy. And those are holdings. Oh, God. Okay. No, this came up in listeners. If you're

00:11:25.200 new, you may not know. I wrote a book. It's called Rebel of the Regency, The Scandal Saga

00:11:29.040 of Carolina Brunswick, Britain's Uncrowned Queen. And she at one point goes on a trip to various

00:11:33.380 parts of what is now Italy, but they are not Italy. She goes to Naples, which is its own thing,

00:11:38.260 which is part of Maria Teresa's whole domain. She goes to like Sardinia, like Italy was not

00:11:43.400 italy in terms of like me and lana and like what was what countries were on the map when we were

00:11:47.800 growing up if you're a person today looking at a map it's like italy germany france you're just

00:11:52.780 like yeah these are countries i recognize back then no no okay france yes but like italy was

00:11:59.900 not unified germany was not it was just all these little places and they're not contiguous like

00:12:05.480 somebody's in charge of them but it's not just it's like you have this part of italy but not

00:12:09.220 this part of italy but this part but then not this part it's well and even in germany so the

00:12:14.660 northern part of germany had all of these countries and then there's the cities that we all know

00:12:20.040 hamburg and berlin and all that stuff uh some of them were owned by the countries that they were

00:12:27.560 in the the the principalities or whatever it was that they were in but some of them were completely

00:12:32.520 independent and true democracies. So Hamburg was run by democratically elected

00:12:41.640 burgers, the landowners, obviously not everybody, you can't just let anybody vote, but

00:12:48.560 the wealthy landowners, members of the guilds were able to vote for their city council for

00:12:55.500 all intents and purposes. And those people had the equivalent power to the nearby prince of

00:13:02.500 the kingdom. So it's like, this is like, I know this is a lot listeners, but this is why we're

00:13:08.500 starting off with all this because Maria Teresa, like, don't worry, we're going to get into this.

00:13:11.560 And she's like doing really interesting stuff, but it's against the backdrop of all these little

00:13:16.580 places all run by men with their own interests. And she's just like, guess what? I'm in charge

00:13:23.360 now. And so just think about all the different levels of people that are affected by her

00:13:28.120 eventually becoming in charge. Like this is important. It's not just like, oh, you're in

00:13:31.900 church of england like great this is a country it's all smushed together this is one place it's

00:13:36.740 like you're in church of all these places some of which have their own internal all of which have

00:13:41.760 their own internal leadership as well and like this is important to how successful she is spoiler

00:13:47.560 she's very successful and then there's the other complicating factor which is um the northern part

00:13:53.560 is almost exclusively lutheran and the southern part is almost exclusively catholic with the

00:14:00.960 eastern part being a little bit catholic and a little bit eastern orthodox and this is like

00:14:08.200 it's crucial i think to note that this is a time in history where religions were led to numerous

00:14:15.900 wars that this is so again we mentioned she is catholic like she's catholic like this is yeah

00:14:23.420 she's not she's no time for anyone of any other religion and and we are used to talking when we

00:14:30.080 talk about europe we're used to talking about england and france arguing with each other right

00:14:34.920 this is one of those situations where her biggest problem is the ottoman empire which is

00:14:41.880 we haven't talked about that in this podcast for a long time this is like scroll back scroll back

00:14:47.680 through your podcast app harem sultan um suleiman like i explained that all there two to three years

00:14:55.080 ago but yeah so that's like if you go so for describing her area of power sort of like germany

00:15:00.860 and kind of eastward from there with a little bit of italy if you go further east ottoman empire

00:15:06.020 and they're actively fighting with them they're not just like they're they're they're not friends

00:15:13.160 no it's like empire versus empire so and the end ottoman empire like just to be clear like that's

00:15:20.840 like Muslim. So like we've got all these different areas with our own religion, with our own

00:15:26.020 leadership. And they're not agreeing. No, no, there's just constant wars is what's going on

00:15:33.700 in the European continent. In the backdrop to this story. And I finally got, I finally got

00:15:42.000 Anne to understand it. She will forget it next week, but I finally got her to understand it.

00:15:47.040 for the next hour and a half i will remember so um maria theresa she's born into this

00:15:53.480 fractious situation so just she's born okay 17 17 she's born may 13th if you're in

00:16:01.020 um horoscope girly there you go um so her parents um were charles the sixth the holy roman emperor

00:16:10.440 and her mother is called elizabeth christine of brunswick wolf and butyl an area that i know about

00:16:16.640 a lot uh anyway she was their second child she had an older brother leopold but he died as a

00:16:23.560 child so she was born and was the heir um as so often happens in these stories of european royal

00:16:32.040 births she was a girl and everyone's like oh no like it just makes it it makes things more

00:16:37.700 complicated because it's a real like boys inherit like that straightforward if it's not a boy it's

00:16:43.560 Just like, okay, we can make this work, but it's going to be complicated.

00:16:48.160 Her father was the only surviving male member of the House of Habsburg, brackets this version of, right?

00:16:55.380 I'm assuming there's Habsburg still in Spain.

00:16:57.940 Not as many because we're talking, oh, now I can't remember when he died.

00:17:01.400 But the last little boy, he didn't, he was the, I want to say he's another Charles.

00:17:10.840 Well, no. So I think that that could be true because I have heard her described as like the

00:17:14.120 last Habsburg. So like the other ones just inbred themselves out of existence, I presume. 1.00

00:17:20.060 We're not talking about them, but that's what I presume happened. They just,

00:17:22.880 they gave birth to too many people who couldn't chew and then just they all starved and then

00:17:27.200 no one was alive. They didn't do a lot of good things for their genetic history, no.

00:17:32.920 No. So, but you know, again, I will note in terms of like, yes, did the book that I read

00:17:37.240 but Nancy Goldstone opened with a family tree.

00:17:40.940 Did I skim past it because it was confusing?

00:17:42.880 Yes.

00:17:43.760 But I will note that Maria Teresa's parents

00:17:47.260 were not siblings.

00:17:50.680 They were not.

00:17:52.480 Her father was Charles, the Holy Roman Emperor,

00:17:54.540 and her mother was from Brunswick, Wolf and Butyl,

00:17:56.900 different places.

00:17:58.320 So she had some genetic advantages there.

00:18:02.260 I'm sure they were related in some way.

00:18:04.300 Again, I did not look at the family tree.

00:18:05.860 Not exceedingly though.

00:18:07.240 not too much not as much as other people so yeah no it says here and so i will say oh this is also

00:18:13.260 from um my kind of guideline here i also looked at the essay on her from women in world history

00:18:19.500 a biographical encyclopedia entry by william l chu the third and he says her father was the

00:18:25.840 only surviving male member of the house of habsburg so okay like literally the only one so he's like

00:18:32.040 he wanted a son because otherwise like the dynasty will be extinct and he had a daughter instead

00:18:38.780 because dynasties can't surpass a woman so no technically she is the last Habsburg

00:18:45.960 except for all the ones that come after her yeah yeah but dynasties are male like anyway so because

00:18:53.220 she was born so there's like we're going to get into this like the family dynamics of it all so

00:18:56.680 he had this daughter he had a brother or there's she has cousins who are also girls um and so those

00:19:06.500 girls had been the next heir but then she was born and now she outranks them so at her baptism um she

00:19:13.320 was carried ahead of her cousins and lana do you want to explain the pragmatic sanction

00:19:19.580 capital p capital s

00:19:23.260 i can explain if you don't want to i have no because it's been a while

00:19:29.860 okay so what this is is her dad her dad charles the holy roman emperor was just like okay i'm the

00:19:38.520 last habsburg um my son like my son is dead or dying um what happens if i have a daughter what

00:19:45.940 will happen to this old dynasty and so he made this thing called he wrote this thing called the

00:19:50.020 pragmatic sanction which effectively says it proclaimed a complex female succession so if

00:19:55.920 there's no male heir he's like then the person who will inherit will be my direct progeny like

00:20:01.180 any daughter i have will take over like that this is the effectively it's more complicated than this

00:20:07.160 but it's also not he basically just wrote this document being it's pragmatic so he's just saying

00:20:11.560 like instead of getting to some weird crazy thing like the british did going through your family

00:20:15.840 tree and crossing off all the Catholics. Let's just, if I die without a son, make my daughter 0.95

00:20:23.040 the next. Inherit from me. That's what it says. So it was, and it also declared all Habsburg lands 0.99

00:20:29.720 quote, indivisible and inseparable. He had, you know what? And good for him because honestly,

00:20:35.280 Henry VIII did not do this. He was like, it might so happen that there's not a boy and I don't want

00:20:40.700 all the civil wars that might happen. So I'm just going to like preemptively write this document

00:20:44.720 saying like if I die my daughter takes over all the Habsburg lands and so he wrote this but it's

00:20:52.120 like who's gonna agree to it and how do you get them to agree to it so he like Lenny just explained

00:20:59.800 the complex web of places that are the Holy Roman Empire and through a different kinds of like

00:21:06.440 persuasion bribery various things he kind of he got the Habsburg estates and the families of

00:21:13.340 european monarchs to agree to this at least while he was alive yes um literally bribing people yeah

00:21:19.960 he was going around bribing so the like i can't i don't remember the names of anything because it

00:21:25.660 has been a while but i do remember he went around and he like convinced as many people as he could

00:21:32.080 like no you have to vote for her you have to vote for her even if it's a girl this is important so

00:21:40.100 right right this like to remind everybody and myself the reason why he had to convince people

00:21:44.640 it's not just like accept her as the the like empress but it's like vote her in because when

00:21:50.980 right it's not a succession like it is for a king just like his oldest child takes over like these

00:21:56.800 people have to vote for her so he's just like he's like rustling up the votes before he's even dead

00:22:03.760 years in advance he doesn't even have a daughter yet he's like but if i do will you vote for her

00:22:08.680 how much land do i have to give you to vote for her because that's what he bribed people with

00:22:14.540 and everybody he he had all the power so like yeah of course we'll vote for her

00:22:19.780 like obviously yeah shifty eyes shifty eyes so less than a year after her birth um another baby 0.99

00:22:27.660 was born guess what another girl um maria anna who is called i think marianne then another one

00:22:34.300 maria amalia so you just picture every time a baby's born everyone's just like no

00:22:38.620 but luckily the pragmatic solution or the pragmatic sanction was in existence but can

00:22:46.580 you imagine like he has a daughter he's like okay this is fine maybe there'll be a son it's

00:22:50.620 another girl then a third girl you see that today in some families my own included where you see

00:22:58.580 like there's a family and they have two children of one gender and then they have a third and

00:23:02.900 you're like you know they're trying for the other gender and then they don't get it

00:23:06.660 and i'm the youngest of three daughters thank you um anyway so three girls she has two younger

00:23:14.420 sisters uh in terms of what she looked like just because i'm always interested so she looks we're

00:23:22.160 going to talk about mary antoinette in a few weeks big blue eyes everyone in this family first name 0.76

00:23:28.280 maria has big big big blue eyes um blonde hair well it says fair hair with a slight tinge of red 1.00

00:23:34.620 so like she's a strawberry blonde um a wide mouth and a notably strong body 1.00

00:23:41.200 which will become evident when you see how many childbirths she survives

00:23:48.080 she's hearty she's a hearty person they're not they're not tiny little wispy things

00:23:55.860 not even a little bit they're no strong stock that's why they survived

00:24:02.100 yeah honestly yeah that's why the girls survive and the boys don't because these girls are just

00:24:07.060 like brick houses of people they're just they're like ilana mar but like olden times like just

00:24:12.700 muscle is how i picture her and that's how she looks in a portrait so i'm picturing her correctly

00:24:17.240 oh yeah here this essay notes unlike many other members of the house of habsburg

00:24:23.160 neither maria theresa's parents nor her grandparents were closely related to each other

00:24:27.320 she had 16 distinct great grandparents and when we're talking about like she's like a healthy

00:24:33.640 person it's like that's part of why diversity and genetic material they're all strong german stock

00:24:41.580 but they're yeah so she is this little girl with her big eyes this little strong girl so she was

00:24:48.700 a serious and reserved child i get that who she is as an adult she enjoyed archery um her father

00:24:55.480 prevented her from riding from horse riding just because it was seen as bad experiences

00:25:01.780 i guess it's funny because later on in terms of like the habsburgs like you get cc

00:25:07.320 who is like famously a horse girl so it's like all those genes were just like suppressed until

00:25:11.720 cc could express well no she was she was genetically she was genetically she brought 0.56

00:25:16.920 that in and she's like i don't care if i break my neck it'd be better than this

00:25:21.540 so she also liked singing um they had a lot of like opera productions were happening her education

00:25:30.220 was overseen by repeat guest stars on this podcast the jesuits um which becomes a thing

00:25:38.360 later on in her story oh jesuits um but here's what i'm gonna say the jesuits um who we've seen

00:25:44.980 in other episodes doing a lot of like missionary work like they go to like japan they go into like

00:25:49.860 the african continent like they're traveling that's what they did what they were not doing

00:25:53.500 colonizers let's just call them what they are they are but i'm gonna say what they were not

00:25:58.720 good at was teaching her um anything because she was not educated well

00:26:06.560 and she was a girl and it's funny because there is the pragmatic sanction so it's like technically

00:26:12.400 like he had brought all these people like she will inherit from him probably but she was not

00:26:18.060 being raised to be the empress so i guess they were thinking like whoever she marries like he'll

00:26:23.480 be the emperor and she'll just be the wife but she was not educated to the extent that the heir

00:26:27.620 to the holy roman empire perhaps should have been correct um i'm gonna quote from this essay again

00:26:35.580 and say that her spelling and punctuation were unconventional well she's a girl she doesn't

00:26:42.580 have to learn how to write she's never going to accomplish anything it's fine yeah so very well

00:26:49.140 it'll be great so it's just kind of like she's cute she's pretty she's good at archery she can

00:26:55.540 dance she likes drawing painting music and dancing so she's being trained up to be a queen consort

00:27:00.740 she's being trained up to be like an excellent like hostess person overseeing parties like that

00:27:06.240 sort of stuff her father never discussed affairs of state with her even though he had spent the

00:27:10.720 last decades of his life securing her as his heir he never prepared her so that's a choice he made

00:27:19.140 yeah yeah so um so her first the the first choice for her husband was leopold clement of lorraine

00:27:29.660 can you talk about lorraine for a second uh because that has a connection to mary queen of

00:27:33.940 Scots. Lorraine, as you may remember, is a it's a duchy that's kind of on the border of France

00:27:43.080 and what is now Germany. And if you're into modern history, Alsanse-Lorraine was one of the first

00:27:50.300 areas that was invaded by the Nazis. So it's that it's like it's one of those those disputed lands

00:27:59.080 that could go either way um it's also where the cadet branch um one of the cadet branches

00:28:07.060 of the dukes de lauren the the lorrains was the de geese's who we recall from mary queen of scots

00:28:15.160 those were her uncles and her mom but like her uncles the de geese bros yes so that's the kind

00:28:21.160 of family this is that she's marrying into but uh far removed no longer quite so shady and

00:28:28.000 controlling but still just as catholic cannot emphasize like overemphasize the importance that

00:28:35.020 being catholic has to this woman's life okay so she's gonna she was gonna be betrothed to

00:28:40.240 leopold clement of lorraine but he died of smallpox i'm gonna say smallpox is a major

00:28:44.420 supporting character in this whole in this story and also marie marie antonette story this whole

00:28:50.060 century of world smallpox is really having a moment here but you know what else was

00:28:55.180 inoculation. Smallpox changed the world. And I have several books from my demography era or my

00:29:02.020 demography studies that discuss it. So it's it is a key player. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know,

00:29:09.680 there's John Green has this book, Everything is Tuberculosis. I think there could be a book

00:29:14.060 that's just like all of history is smallpox. Until there wasn't. So we eradicated it because

00:29:21.360 that's what vaccines do this is a pro vaccine podcast if you're a new listener just know that

00:29:28.400 so anyway he died of smallpox before before they could meet but he had a younger brother called

00:29:33.420 francis who was invited to vienna and guess what he was cute he was charming he was lovely she fell

00:29:41.660 in love with him they're both children or he's like a teenager she's a child he comes to live

00:29:45.860 in vienna is kind of like you're probably going to get engaged to each other so just like grow up

00:29:50.420 in Vienna why not be here it'll be fine she had such a crush on him which I mentioned because

00:29:58.960 not all the marriages of royal people in this era were husbands that women wanted but she had

00:30:07.160 such a crush on him and she was really happy to marry him so he um ascended the throne of Lorraine

00:30:14.580 when I guess his dad died.

00:30:16.760 They got married in Vienna.

00:30:18.660 This is, again, I have to quote this guy.

00:30:20.800 What is his name?

00:30:21.320 Benjamin.

00:30:22.060 William L. Chu III.

00:30:23.740 He's got away with words sometimes in this essay.

00:30:27.380 Maria Therese's love for her husband

00:30:28.760 was strong and possessive. 0.68

00:30:32.280 She was very jealous of her husband

00:30:34.300 and his infidelity was the greatest problem

00:30:36.520 of their marriage.

00:30:38.220 She, like, we haven't done an episode

00:30:40.420 about Queen Victoria yet.

00:30:42.580 Dot, dot, dot.

00:30:44.580 But Maria Theresa's love of Francis is giving me Queen Victoria. 1.00

00:30:49.860 She's just like, there's nothing she likes more than fucking this man. 1.00

00:30:53.260 She's in love with him to an obsessive degree. 1.00

00:30:58.200 That's the vibe.

00:30:59.900 As evidenced by how many children they have.

00:31:01.700 Yes.

00:31:02.300 Like he was, he wasn't, he wasn't a great human being.

00:31:06.800 He wasn't either a strong human being. 0.73

00:31:08.880 He was just, he was kind of selfish and self-centered.

00:31:14.580 he was just kind of there and i wonder if part of it is like she met him when she's i don't know

00:31:20.140 i'm gonna say like six or eight years old and he was like 13 and she's like oh my god he's amazing

00:31:24.540 then i when i grow up i'm gonna marry him and then she gets to marry him so i think it's like

00:31:28.320 that was like imprinted on her so early just like this is the hottest guy in the world

00:31:32.980 and then she gets to marry him and it's like okay it's almost like she licked him so she bought him

00:31:39.180 and then and he's and he's not special like he's not interesting he's not he's not good at ruling

00:31:47.260 he isn't he also is not being raised to rule despite nobody nobody is

00:31:52.780 but charles is just kind of like when i die peace out figure it out yourself no support system here

00:32:01.740 yeah yeah so he was i want to mention he was not popular because this is and this is important for

00:32:08.620 later on when we get to marie antoinette um he was french and so the people in vienna in austria

00:32:14.900 hated him because of xenophobia they thought that he was a cowardly french spy but he wasn't french

00:32:21.420 he was from lorraine the haters didn't care about these distinctions exactly

00:32:28.360 it's like they just like hating he wasn't anything he was he was just a little bit nothing

00:32:35.280 so everybody in germany hated him no one in france liked him no one liked him

00:32:40.040 except for maria theresa obsessively who licked him so she bought him yeah yeah it's kind of like

00:32:48.780 what is called like the sunk cost fallacy it's like well you know it's like i bought this so i

00:32:54.740 might as well just keep it this is the only one i'm ever gonna have so i might as well

00:32:58.420 just make as much get as much use out of him as i can well and the thing with her too again like

00:33:04.520 the catholicness of it all she was like very pious in her religion and it's very much just

00:33:10.420 like the white like you have to be loyal to the husband like she would never dare consider

00:33:15.300 straying or anything even though as i mentioned he had various mistresses also very busy

00:33:20.420 we're gonna get to what she's busy doing she's not sitting around doodling her phones going well 0.56

00:33:27.020 i wish i could sleep around when would she fit that in there's no time fit that in no

00:33:33.920 okay so here's what's up and i want to i don't know how much you know about this and we can get

00:33:38.520 into it or not but october 20th 1740 her father charles died of mushrooms

00:33:45.400 as one does it's easy to do back then yeah he just ate the wrong mushroom and died

00:33:55.900 after it's just like you know what if you're living in 1740 just don't eat any mushrooms

00:34:00.240 just stop eating like just be careful if you if you go harvesting like go finding mushrooms in

00:34:08.320 the woods just be very very careful make sure you have experts with you it's just mushrooms will

00:34:14.160 kill you it's not it's just such a like i don't know it's not like the death of the emperor it's

00:34:21.400 just like and he ate some bad mushrooms and died like that's it even if he had smallpox it's like 0.98

00:34:26.500 that happens was he poisoned no i mean he was but he wasn't like killed not on purpose he was

00:34:34.080 poisoned yes but by the mushrooms not by a person he wasn't actively poisoned he had mushroom 0.97

00:34:38.920 poisoning so he like i claudius dies of mushrooms um anyway and so the shit hits the fan as we've 0.94

00:34:48.160 been setting you all up to imagine like what you've got is she's like 18 years old i think 0.99

00:34:52.620 she's got this husband

00:34:54.260 neither of them knows anything 0.96

00:34:55.520 about how to be in charge

00:34:56.580 but he has

00:34:57.600 bribed all these places

00:34:59.040 to vote her in

00:35:00.360 as the next

00:35:01.200 Holy Roman Emperor

00:35:02.040 so it says here

00:35:02.980 he

00:35:03.560 wait

00:35:04.000 there's a quote from her

00:35:05.240 later on

00:35:06.420 she wrote

00:35:07.100 no one I believe

00:35:09.680 will disagree

00:35:10.200 that it would be hard

00:35:11.060 to find an example

00:35:11.860 in history

00:35:12.420 of a crowned head of state

00:35:13.620 succeeding to the throne

00:35:14.600 under more difficult

00:35:15.640 circumstances

00:35:16.380 than I

00:35:17.080 like she inherited

00:35:20.320 this disaster

00:35:21.880 And very extensive disaster.

00:35:26.440 Like incomprehensibly large disaster.

00:35:30.920 So there's a severe fiscal crisis going on.

00:35:35.160 The realm, such as it was, like all these realms were basically defenseless with only half of the army in any state resembling combat preparedness.

00:35:44.000 Maria Teresa herself wrote later, as for the state in which I found the army, I cannot begin to describe it.

00:35:50.240 there there were up until before napoleon there weren't really standing well there was one guy

00:35:57.580 he wants to make a standing army he'll we'll get to him later but standing armies weren't a thing

00:36:03.120 especially in germany it it would have caused too much strife and too much danger germany was

00:36:09.740 kind of the place you had wars on top of it wasn't a place that had like that defended itself

00:36:17.020 well as you've been describing there's a lot of wars happening all over the place constantly so

00:36:24.760 what you would do is during the summer once once all the crops were in the ground uh during the

00:36:30.760 summer you just hire all the farm boys and take them uh put them into some kind of shape march

00:36:37.500 them wherever you went to throw them at the other guy's farm boys uh then it gets to fall they all

00:36:43.820 go back and they do their harvesting winter everybody stays hunkered down because it's

00:36:47.940 freaking cold and then you go back and you do it all over again in the summer so like there was a

00:36:53.260 season for war but even for that you have to have leadership that knows what they're doing

00:36:59.300 and um it knows what year it is let's talk let's talk about her advisors it really really helps if

00:37:08.260 your army's leadership does not have dementia okay so the habsburg domains were being meant

00:37:16.060 managed by um the average age is 71 um is who's in charge of this uh

00:37:24.300 and that's all of her advisors all of her advisors are kind of like well i remember

00:37:30.360 in the 1600s it's like okay boomer like this is not

00:37:34.420 okay the generation above boomer like silent generation yeah so she was unprepared to take 0.99

00:37:46.700 over and everything was a disaster she didn't know enough about anything politically because

00:37:51.640 she'd never been told it she was unaware that these ministers were not helpful but her father

00:37:57.020 had advised her to retain the counselors and defer to your husband because they know better and she's

00:38:01.700 like, okay, that was wrong. And she would later regret that decision, but she didn't know what

00:38:06.280 else to do. Did you include my favorite footnote of all time in your notes? I didn't. What is that?

00:38:12.100 Okay. I'm going to find it. I'm going to read you a quote from her about this time as well.

00:38:15.840 So this is about her remembering when she took over quote, I found myself without money,

00:38:20.740 without credit, without army, without experience and knowledge of my own. And finally,

00:38:24.900 also without any counsel, because each one of them at first wanted to wait and see how things

00:38:29.420 would develop. Patience of the elderly. So Anne sent this to me and I just, I died laughing

00:38:36.320 so much. It's from a footnote, probably from, probably from. The Nancy Goldstone book. She

00:38:42.660 has some really funny footnotes. Oh my God, this footnote killed me. Consider that when Elizabeth

00:38:47.680 I ascended the throne, she had the invaluable William Cecil to guide her. Queen Victoria had

00:38:54.560 the advice of the equally skillful Lord Melbourne. Elizabeth II had the indomitable Winston Churchill.

00:39:02.380 By contrast, Maria Teresa had the 18th century equivalent of the regulars at Wednesday night 0.97

00:39:08.300 bingo at the senior center. And my response to Anne was, well, at least none of Maria

00:39:16.180 teresas advisors ever committed genocide that there's a silver lining and everything but like

00:39:25.880 that just so you could set up like these are the she's there 18 years old doesn't know what she's

00:39:30.460 doing because no one ever told her and then she's like well i guess i'll trust these guys because

00:39:33.600 they're old and therefore they must be smart question mark no they're just old they're just

00:39:39.240 that they're just old i mean they're patient because they can be like when you're that old

00:39:45.360 near that experience it's like well everything's survivable it's like no it was survivable because

00:39:50.700 someone somewhere was making a decision yeah and and someone has to start making decisions

00:39:57.200 or this is going to get real bad so this is where what i appreciate about maria theresa in this era

00:40:03.180 is she like she ascends into this role where just everyone around her is actively useless 0.87

00:40:08.540 and she you know other people other women in similar situations maybe your workplace friends 1.00

00:40:14.620 would just be like wow this is just fucked up and she's just like well someone has to take charge 0.99

00:40:19.080 and that person will be me and she like she has instincts she doesn't have the like learning she 0.98

00:40:25.780 doesn't have the experience but she just has good instincts she's like someone has to take charge

00:40:29.960 no one else is going to do it great guess it's me and she does yeah she steps up she steps up so

00:40:37.260 she's just like okay great so first first order of business get myself voted it um 1.00

00:40:43.860 because technically according to laws or something until the pragmatic sanction a woman could not be

00:40:50.060 elected holy roman emperor so she was like okay well then we'll just get my husband so then to be

00:40:55.840 to be the emperor and i'll just kind of be in charge but yeah she's so but she's just like um 0.78

00:41:02.820 okay so nobody's gonna vote for a woman i got this dude here he's mine i licked him here's the thing 0.59

00:41:10.400 no so she's in terms of like there's a pragmatic sanction is the name of this thing that her father 1.00

00:41:18.780 did but she's also pragmatic she's not like i'm gonna teach them that feminism is important she's

00:41:22.820 like they're not gonna vote for a woman great who's a man i can choose my husband great like 1.00

00:41:27.120 she pivots like when we get to the like um not scheminess or is that do we call that scheming

00:41:33.400 but just kind of like being able to pivot intelligently like she just has her instincts

00:41:37.560 are spot on in the situation.

00:41:39.580 She knows what to do.

00:41:41.740 I feel like once again,

00:41:42.860 I have brought you to a woman 1.00

00:41:44.480 who is completely badass 1.00

00:41:46.520 and has done things. 1.00

00:41:49.980 And yet she does not do the things

00:41:51.960 that are and things.

00:41:54.380 She's just so pragmatic.

00:41:56.200 Pragmatic is the right word for her.

00:41:58.200 Yeah, like we're at the end of this episode.

00:42:00.220 Listeners, if you've never listened before,

00:42:01.760 we always score people in various categories.

00:42:03.640 One of them is scandalousness. 1.00

00:42:05.440 And I love a woman 1.00

00:42:07.040 who's just like a messy bitch just like murdering people you know doing a can-can whatever like i 1.00

00:42:13.480 love that but lana likes like a bitch who's like like uh what's her name from china uh like you 1.00

00:42:18.440 love her i love me some shishi shishi yeah no this is this is giving shishi vibes it's just 1.00

00:42:23.880 like a woman who's like everyone else is an asshole we'll all take charge and i'm amazing 0.95

00:42:28.120 i just want and this is a let this is your land this is your person this is your type of 1.00

00:42:32.940 preferred person right she she was I just want to stay home and and paint just let me retire

00:42:38.340 I am I'm the queen mother I shouldn't be doing things Maria Teresa's like I you all want a man

00:42:44.760 you don't have one you've got me so let's do this make this work yeah I feel like Maria Teresa is

00:42:53.560 somebody in that context um in that sense where I find admirable and that's what I want to be like 1.00

00:43:00.560 as a person you know I like reading about messy bitches but I want to be a person who's like the 1.00

00:43:06.300 most competent person and that's who she is so she's like great I can't you're not going to vote 1.00

00:43:11.820 me in great so let's get my husband oh he doesn't have enough land or rank well I'll fix that so she

00:43:19.020 made Francis co-ruler of the Austrian and Bohemian lands which took some finessing Hungary enters the

00:43:27.660 chat you know what because i was remembering hungary from the empress not cc but cc the

00:43:34.420 empress cc episode i'm just like when hungary enters the chat i'm just excited because they

00:43:40.940 they're always a good time so it took a while to convince them to accept him as co-ruler because

00:43:47.340 they asserted because this is like austrio-hungary right like it's kind of yeah so they asserted

00:43:53.460 like the sovereignty of hungary could not be shared um but eventually she convinced them 0.92

00:43:59.820 because she's just like she gets shit done and well the alternative was kind of awful

00:44:05.800 to the what is the alternative is um frederick 0.98

00:44:12.040 we'll get to him oh 1.00

00:44:17.160 yet another messy gay bitch frederick is like what if ludwig from the mad castles of ludwig 1.00

00:44:27.500 like what it's like his doppelganger from the mirror dimension where everyone's evil 1.00

00:44:31.960 like frederick is like evil ludwig he's just kind of like 0.96

00:44:34.840 instead of building like fairytale castles he's like annexing territories and just being gay he 0.82

00:44:43.900 was and so mean and i my my compare my parallel was he was james the first if there if james the 0.85

00:44:50.840 first didn't have any witches to play with yeah if he didn't have witches to play with and instead

00:44:55.580 just oh my god frederick we will get to him nancy goldstone explains his whole deal really well in

00:45:00.680 her book and at first i felt bad for him and then i hated him start out feeling bad and then you 0.95

00:45:06.660 realize no he's just a dick yeah but he did have a hard time anyway frederick so that's kind of

00:45:12.840 the looming threat in the background of this but i'll explain him when he when he comes on the scene 0.98

00:45:16.900 so um basically the lutherans are always a threat

00:45:22.760 well kind of everyone this is a great transition lana because next we're going to talk about her

00:45:29.060 stance on religious matters um there's catholics that's her stance exactly so she was exactly she

00:45:39.900 was intolerant towards anyone who was not a catholic um and she to put it politely tended

00:45:45.620 to infringe on the rights of lutherans and calvinists and particularly of jews so um to be

00:45:54.940 clear she was so anti-semitic the people of her era were like girl calm down like this is a bit

00:46:02.220 too anti-semitic for us in the catholic regions of western europe in the mid 1700s like this is

00:46:09.160 too much for us so it's not just like oh she was of her time it's like oh no this was like

00:46:13.360 she was incredibly anti-semitic this essay describes her as probably the most anti-jewish

00:46:18.840 monarch of her time not of all time that would be elizabeth or isabel of castile

00:46:24.020 but of her time also an ancestor you know and she inherited that strain in her dna and she

00:46:31.320 inherited the traditional prejudices of her ancestors and added new ones it was bad

00:46:37.000 yeah anyway she um 1744 so i i really want to make sure that we don't skip over this part of

00:46:45.320 her whole deal because this is like an important part of her whole deal and for a while i was

00:46:49.380 thinking like why haven't i heard about this woman and like how she was a successful monarch

00:46:53.680 in her time when i've heard of um you know elizabeth the first or like whatever and it's

00:47:01.380 like oh well was it because she was so anti-semitic i'm like no because elizabeth the first also did

00:47:05.820 genocides like victoria also did genocides all the women monarchs all did genocides um but it's

00:47:13.660 just maria theresa we don't know for her because she wasn't english and victoria didn't celebrate 0.99

00:47:18.560 her. Anyway, so one of the things she did, 1744, she proposed the expulsion of around 10,000 Jews

00:47:25.540 from Prague, Prague. And then she expanded that to all Jews in Bohemia and the major cities of

00:47:31.500 Moravia. But eventually her extremely old ministers were like, girl, calm down. No, you can't do this.

00:47:39.020 it goes bad every time no like no um so the expulsion happened in prague but was retracted

00:47:48.180 four years later due to economic considerations and pressures from other countries including

00:47:52.620 great britain so that was one of her things that she was up to she also i don't know later on

00:48:04.000 things kind of changed between her and what she's doing about jewish people but that's because she

00:48:08.240 gets a new co-monarch and we'll talk about that later so war i don't know ansley's favorite

00:48:16.580 subject we're gonna breeze through this as much as we can we want to focus on her and what she's

00:48:21.760 up to yeah there was parts of like i love nancy goldstone's book but there were some parts i really

00:48:27.980 had to skim read because i'm just like i can't i can't i don't know where these countries are

00:48:32.960 I don't know if they are countries like, oh, kill me. But this is where, okay. Immediately after,

00:48:39.940 immediately after her accession, a number of European sovereigns who had recognized her

00:48:45.320 as the heir broke their promises. Like, like Lana said, you know, when her dad is going around

00:48:50.660 being like, will you vote for my daughter? They're all like, oh yeah, sure. Thanks. Of course. But

00:48:54.800 Then he died of mushrooms.

00:48:55.760 And they're like, never mind.

00:48:59.100 So enter her for the rest of her life.

00:49:05.100 Number one enemy, Frederick II of Prussia. 0.62

00:49:08.820 Also not better about Jewish people, by the way. 0.71

00:49:11.060 Like there's no, there are no friends here because Prussia was a bad place. 0.94

00:49:16.560 Explain Frederick's deal. 0.87

00:49:19.600 Okay.

00:49:20.180 So Frederick, Frederick, also known as Frederick the Great.

00:49:24.800 uh was he called himself that he called that that was not given to him everyone call him that

00:49:30.900 he claimed that just to be clear he um he inherited uh the prussian empire the the

00:49:38.380 prussian lands that i can't remember i'm pretty sure it's a kingdom um and they're they're uh

00:49:45.980 the eastern northeastern part of of modern germany the whole northern part of poland

00:49:57.160 all the way into the baltic states and they were german like german so they were germans

00:50:06.900 running northern poland they were germans running the baltic states and they were running them much

00:50:13.540 like the Russians at the time, which is a very serfdom focused area. So they were basically

00:50:19.240 slaveholders. And outside of the Austro-Hungarian, the Habsburgs, they were the largest 0.97

00:50:27.180 landowners and the most wealthy. So he was making a play. Like Frederick looked at the girl down in

00:50:36.220 Austria and was going to make a play. But these are like when you think of all of the negative

00:50:43.200 stereotypes of germans and poland and all of that stuff that was all happening but as like lord

00:50:50.140 rulers being the worst people ever so there's there's there's their own kind of genocide 0.78

00:50:57.700 happening up in prussia but because they have these serfs that they own and they have these 0.95

00:51:06.020 leaders that are very militaristic they have more of a standing army they have they have the more 0.53

00:51:12.180 ability to raise an army than Maria Teresa does. So he thinks he can make a play.

00:51:18.320 And Friedrich, as I recall, I don't have this in my notes, but as I recall, because I remember this

00:51:23.640 from the Nancy Goldstone book. So he was a little boy who loved, he was a little gay boy. He loved

00:51:29.120 flowers and music and nice things. And his dad, who's probably also Nancy Goldstone proposes,

00:51:35.620 a gay person who was forced to not live his truth his dad was just like my kid 0.87

00:51:41.840 the worst sort of parent to a gay kid just kind of like forcing him to try to be a completely 0.82

00:51:47.360 different kind of person and so Friedrich kind of started pretending like he was that but he

00:51:51.560 had this like male favorite who was his bestie slash lover and then his dad found out and then

00:51:57.600 he killed that guy in front of him and then was gonna kill Friedrich but then some people were

00:52:04.000 like maybe don't kill him and the dad was like okay fine the trauma of this made friedrich turn

00:52:08.860 into this like i will be like friedrich the great was adolf hitler's great hero yeah because he was

00:52:16.240 militaristic ruthless just like despicable um but it's kind of like he became that out of it's sort

00:52:25.960 of like you know friedrich begins yeah he he had like the first star wars movie where it's like he's

00:52:31.480 oh like look little Anakin he's cute like oh no now he's Darth Vader Friedrich has a similar 0.75

00:52:36.600 thing where it's like oh this little gay boy oh no he's Adolf Hitler's icon and he was horrible 0.90

00:52:43.600 like he had this he as a person he had this army these special super elite royal guards 0.70

00:52:49.280 and they were all like six foot tall blonde guys really built and stacked yeah yeah and and he

00:52:56.160 always had them around him, always had them around him. And then he forced them to marry

00:53:01.020 six foot tall blonde ladies so that they could breed super soldiers for him. 0.92

00:53:06.280 He invented eugenics. 0.87

00:53:08.420 Well, I don't know about that, but he went, he went real deep into it. 0.99

00:53:13.280 He inspired what Hitler did later about like, I want to have the tall blonde. That's the perfect 0.98

00:53:19.280 Aryan person. Like there was the people Friedrich was breeding like farm animals. He's like tall 1.00

00:53:24.040 lady tall man fuck each other have children to be my next like super hot guards like i like yes 0.98

00:53:31.740 trauma starts a lot of terrible things but also like how you respond to your trauma tells tells 0.99

00:53:37.620 you who a person is um there's a lot of terrible things happen a lot of terrible people very few

00:53:43.140 of them try to breed super soldiers as a result so he he made his choices he's like literally

00:53:53.900 like a villain from a comic book, Friedrich the Great.

00:53:59.040 Like, he's just like he like he's just absolutely a villain.

00:54:03.900 And he's just like, oh, I'm going to take over these places because this young, short 1.00

00:54:07.940 woman, short, busty woman that has some red in her hair. 1.00

00:54:12.680 How dare she don't care for that?

00:54:16.020 So anyway, so he just like thread.

00:54:18.020 He's like, hey, you 18 year old empress, like, let's go.

00:54:22.800 if you refuse okay so he's okay so there's a part of her kingdom or her lands her holdings

00:54:29.840 it's called silesia which comes up a lot it's in and that's because okay thank you because i didn't

00:54:36.980 know where it was now but it's a mineral rich province they both want this land because it's

00:54:41.500 just really fertile land and it borders on his valuable yeah so he was like give me this land

00:54:49.340 young woman and she decided to fight for it. And so this became the first Silesian war.

00:54:56.000 She referred to him always, not by his name, but as that evil man or as the monster. She was 0.53

00:55:03.480 correct. This is how he should be. And he's like, no, call me Friedrich the Great or I'll kill you.

00:55:08.500 And everyone's like, okay, you got to catch me first. I just, I love that she calls him that

00:55:14.000 evil man it's like not not true maria theresa anyway so they're going to war contrary to all

00:55:22.220 expectations of him um she got support from hungary hungary i just i'm just happy when they

00:55:31.580 show up and support these girls they're there for cc they're there for maria theresa okay so but

00:55:38.900 the thing about Hungary, and I love this. So, you know, she's the Holy Roman Empress. 0.94

00:55:44.240 She has all these lands, but to be specifically queen of Hungary, like there's a specific

00:55:48.660 coronation ceremony that is held in what is now Bratislava. Back then it was called Pressburg.

00:55:56.340 And it's sort of like the Olympics of coronations. You have to, you have to perform certain skills

00:56:03.900 to show i can be your monarch look i can do i can do dressage i can't just walk in and put a crown

00:56:12.180 on your head you gotta do some you gotta do some tricks first but remember her dad wouldn't let

00:56:18.120 her ride a horse correct right but part of the skill is literally dressage she had to learn

00:56:22.860 equestrian skills to do the ceremony so she spent months practicing learning getting good at them

00:56:29.260 but you know she was athletic to begin with she could dance she was doing archery so i feel like

00:56:33.420 she has you know and she's just determined and she will do it anyway so she learned the skills

00:56:40.440 there's gorgeous portraits done of her on the horse at the ceremony um looking badass and

00:56:47.060 amazing there are people who considered her gender to be an obstacle to becoming the monarch so she

00:56:52.060 assumed the masculine title so she was archduke and king rather than queen of hungary and hungary 0.98

00:56:59.660 is just like fuck yeah look at her she's on a horse like to get her respect you need to do that's 1.00

00:57:05.020 why cc liked it there and they liked her hungry just respects horse skills so meanwhile god damn 0.99

00:57:13.440 it you know i love i love telling the story george the second is now in the story that is the 0.78

00:57:24.000 i'm just having a nice time reading a story and then it overlaps with what i had to research for

00:57:29.380 my book like the i love doing my book i love researching my book but i really had to learn

00:57:33.940 some stuff that i have been avoiding learning my whole life and one of those things was

00:57:37.060 the electorate of hanover it just means he's a voting guy right okay so what it what it is is

00:57:44.960 that so george the second so george the first and then george the second and george the third and

00:57:48.800 fourth so they were the kings of england but they were also the electorate of hanover so because

00:57:56.060 that was when queen anne the last of the stewart monarchs in britain she died without any surviving

00:58:03.160 children and they're like who can inherit let's go down the family tree and cross off all the

00:58:07.340 catholics who's left uh this guy george the first this german guy the electorate of hanover so he

00:58:12.460 was the first king of both and then george the second was the next so anyway hanover is a place

00:58:18.600 that is in this area it's in the holy roman empire it's in the holy roman empire but um he's also the

00:58:25.920 King of England. So there's a connection there, right? And so, and that complicates things for

00:58:30.740 him, for George II. So he, Maria Teresa needed troops to ally against Friedrich because George

00:58:38.360 II declared the electorate of Hanover neutral. And you know, there's no real neutrality in the

00:58:44.260 face of invading armies. Like that was him siding with Friedrich, basically, I think.

00:58:49.440 So this is where she's like, okay, got to turn to my guys in Hungary, get on my horse. So then she,

00:58:55.400 this is this is where i was like oh i love her except for the anti-semitism anti-everybody else

00:59:02.540 well she was anti-everybody else but she was pro doing what she needed to do to save her country

00:59:07.280 so she went to the like hungarian whatever meeting place it's called the diet

00:59:12.180 the deet which is like the parliament i guess anyway so she shows up she's wearing the holy

00:59:19.800 crown of hungary and she starts off addressing them in latin and then she just is she gives this

00:59:26.000 moving speech like if this isn't a movie there's like this slow background music then the more

00:59:30.760 intense background music and she's just like you know we're calling upon your help the valor of the

00:59:36.660 hungarians people were kind of like oh my gosh somebody cried you better apply to satan than 0.85

00:59:42.020 the hungarians for help so they're not on board in the first place but she's just like she kept 1.00

00:59:47.140 talking by now she's had a child she's probably had a few child children by now she fucks her 0.93

00:59:53.720 husband as much as she can and has a child every other year she was a good catholic girl 1.00

00:59:57.860 she had as many children she could possibly manage and because of her hearty good genes

01:00:04.660 she survived them all despite the time period she's in and being at war constantly anyway so

01:00:09.860 her oldest son is called joseph and we'll get to him later he's a baby at this point and so she

01:00:15.640 brings out the baby in front of the parliament and she dramatically she's like look at this baby

01:00:23.180 your future king um will you defend this baby

01:00:28.580 she's like i'm taking care of my children and i am leading this country screw all of you

01:00:36.820 and then she's like maybe you don't respect me as a woman but what about this future man

01:00:43.060 And so Hungarians were just like, oh my God, we love drama. We love a speech. And they declared

01:00:50.880 they would die for her. And they did, some of them. So they sent 22,000 people and 14,000 horses

01:00:58.600 to help her out. And this is where, you know, just to mention her success in this situation,

01:01:06.440 so much of it is just knowing what will convince people. And that's part of it is like,

01:01:11.540 i assume she's learning like she's reading some old books and like how to be a leader but she

01:01:17.140 just has these inherent skills and knowledge of how to persuade people like even just like learning

01:01:23.980 knowing how important the horseback riding was like knowing bringing out her son would help like

01:01:27.820 she has these like instincts that are so good and i don't know if those can be taught

01:01:32.860 like she just because they weren't taught because she wasn't taught anything

01:01:36.480 yeah and it's not necessarily breeding because we saw what happened to the

01:01:42.000 spanish side of the family yeah she just like has these these like pr based skills

01:01:49.380 okay so there's more war stuff happens and a lot of what's happening is just like some of

01:01:55.540 the other places we're being like do we want a lady empress so in bohemia which is a place

01:02:05.280 it's not just the style you get if you go to anthropology i can't remember if i think bohemia

01:02:13.880 is in what's now the czech republic but it might be in slovakia it used to be in czechoslovakia but

01:02:19.500 that's not a thing anymore where is bohemia today like it's a word you only ever hear lately about

01:02:27.540 um fashion it's not part of bohemia is for much of the czech republic see i don't remember things

01:02:33.840 you know your stuff so the bohemians were like we would prefer this other guy to be sovereign and

01:02:41.320 not you and the other guy is charles albert the elector of bavaria ancestor to ludwig

01:02:49.220 oh okay i love ludwig so um like marie theresa got word this is what they're saying in bohemia

01:02:56.820 and then this guy charles albert captured prague declared himself king of bohemia dude that's not

01:03:02.440 how it works now maria theresa's on the scene anyway so she was in hungary at the time among

01:03:08.840 her horses and her pals um she wept upon learning of the loss and so what happens here is charles

01:03:15.320 albert was then elected holy roman emperor um which made him the only non-habsburg to be in 0.98

01:03:23.100 position since 1440 so he has usurped this title and maria theresa's just like fuck that we're 1.00

01:03:34.520 gonna get this crown back so she she caught her enemies unprepared by insisting on a winter 0.98

01:03:40.300 campaign so you know atlanta how you're saying like the farm boys will be called out it's like

01:03:47.420 we do war this time of year not this time of year she's just like what if we do war all times of

01:03:51.780 year surprise winter war surprise winter war everybody's at home reading their books

01:03:58.740 yeah yeah the army's not ready so the same day that he was elected emperor austrian troops

01:04:05.820 captured munich the capital of bavaria so because of this presumably she was then crowned queen of

01:04:14.680 bohemia and then friedrich like again i can't emphasize friedrich is gonna not go away at all

01:04:21.140 for this whole story so so then he invaded bohemia eventually charles that guy from bavaria he died

01:04:28.920 so that's not an issue anymore not that long france is involved like it wasn't not that long

01:04:35.420 later actually dozens of years it was like three years it was literally three years yeah he was

01:04:40.840 elected well he named him he was elected roman emperor seven january 1742 he died january 1745

01:04:47.640 literally three years so at this point her husband remember him so he was then elected

01:04:56.580 holy roman emperor and then she is by virtue of being his wife empress again she's like if you're

01:05:01.880 not gonna vote for me we're all voting for francis now that i have the votes because i have taken

01:05:06.740 them back so the war keeps going on and so much of this is just like war between areas that i don't

01:05:14.060 know where they are because they're all names i've never heard before silesia hugely important

01:05:21.260 but as you said like that's because that's the border between the two yeah it's it's what's now

01:05:25.500 the like southern poland yeah so there's like fighting northern italy the austrian netherlands

01:05:31.040 um but she retained the core habsburg domains austria hungary and bohemia france conquered

01:05:38.240 the austrian netherlands but at this point it's louis the 15th um return them to maria theresa

01:05:44.420 and so at this point finally finally everyone is just like basically the pragmatic sanction has

01:05:50.620 happened okay she's holy room and prayer let's just it got it okay like we had we had it could

01:05:57.280 it could have been more wars but she she led very capably throughout i haven't mentioned this but

01:06:02.860 like constant pregnancies. Constant. She's like, she's either pregnant or getting pregnant. Like

01:06:11.500 she's having a child every, I want to say it's not nine months, let's say 10 months. So she's,

01:06:18.580 but this is not slowing her down or stopping her, which is interesting. And I don't recall

01:06:23.660 reading about someone who did that simultaneously. Yeah. Usually you do one or the other. You don't

01:06:29.600 do both yeah like isabel of castile like went to war once or twice when she's pregnant but she 1.00

01:06:35.280 didn't have 15 children so queen victoria had this many children but all she did was fuck her 1.00

01:06:41.340 husband so she wasn't going to war also she wasn't gonna lead she was a woman who would do that oh 1.00

01:06:49.320 gosh um and then queen charlotte like all she did was have babies definitely never gonna lead 1.00

01:06:55.560 I don't want to adopt zebras. 1.00

01:06:57.540 No.

01:06:58.060 Too many dogs to breed.

01:07:01.020 Two people I hate the most in all of history.

01:07:03.920 Well, that's not true.

01:07:05.020 But up there.

01:07:06.580 Very, very up there.

01:07:07.780 Victoria and Charlotte?

01:07:11.620 Oh.

01:07:12.900 But I think Maria Teresa comes to show that, like, just because a queen has 15 children doesn't mean you're going to hate her. 0.97

01:07:20.200 I mean, you can still commit genocide while being pregnant. 0.61

01:07:23.240 It's fine. 1.00

01:07:25.560 Yeah. So Maria Teresa. So this is like, throughout this period, like she's going to war,

01:07:32.280 dealing with this war, going to Hungary, being amazing in her speeches, having children. And

01:07:37.740 she's also learning how to be the empress. And part of that for her, unlike some other prior

01:07:42.780 Holy Roman emperors, is like learning about the political diversity of her land. Who am I ruling

01:07:48.060 over? Maybe if I understand them, they won't leave me. It's kind of like Cleopatra did that as well.

01:07:53.820 She was the first Ptolemy pharaoh in Egypt to, like, learn the Egyptian language.

01:07:58.360 Like, hmm, maybe if I learn about my people, they won't hate me.

01:08:02.000 It also helps to understand that, yes, she got her husband elected.

01:08:08.320 He was a puppet emperor. 0.93

01:08:10.580 She was truly in charge because he was too busy, like, screwing her and anyone else he could find. 0.85

01:08:19.260 He did not care about being in charge of anything.

01:08:21.980 He was just kind of there. 0.93

01:08:23.820 he was trophy husband really so her ultimate goal um like eventually is to defeat Friedrich

01:08:31.240 um and to regain Silesia and just to get everything going like now that she's out of this war of these

01:08:37.640 two wars actually she is just like let's do a big restructuring of everything the now 76 year

01:08:46.800 old advisors are like what but it's worked so well for 100 years this whole fiscal irresponsibility

01:08:52.600 was now at an end she was going to deal with that problem exactly so this guy count friedrich

01:09:01.100 wilhelm haugwitz came on board and he is largely credited for the administrative transformations

01:09:08.460 so part of this is like moving from a feudal type system into like a quote-unquote modern type

01:09:14.220 system. So this involved comprehensive changes like opening schools.

01:09:22.640 Like the concept of kindergarten, like a lot of a lot of our public education system comes

01:09:27.840 from the German system. A lot of a lot of North American concepts come from the German system

01:09:36.580 and the German system comes from the Holy Roman Empire. So she's looking at educational reform,

01:09:41.140 both for like children, but also she wanted to get like she saw these, you know, the bingo guys 1.00

01:09:46.060 around her and she's like, it'd be great to have some trained diplomats instead of these guys. So 1.00

01:09:51.500 let's open a school to teach people how to be politicians. So they opened a civil servant

01:09:57.420 academy and a diplomatic school to help train people to like be helpful to her. She's like,

01:10:03.600 no, it's helpful to me. Great. Let's, let's train people to be helpful to me. And eventually they

01:10:07.880 will be so then he was able she also increased funding and improved trainings for the army

01:10:13.400 which they were going to need because Friedrich was unrelenting in the way of all comic book

01:10:18.660 villains and yeah so I mentioned Hanover before like Hanover and Britain are like hand on hand

01:10:25.160 like it's the same person is in charge of both of them and Britain's whole thing is like we hate

01:10:29.380 France so and that was so um that was their main thing to the point that Marius was like okay I'm

01:10:37.420 gonna stop asking you for help because all you care about is france unless it involves france

01:10:43.700 we're not going to bother and eventually it involves france right so she gives up the

01:10:51.920 alliance with with britain and she's like what if we side with france and now for a quick

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01:11:45.840 The war is over, and both sides lost. Kingdoms were reduced to cinders, and armies scattered

01:11:53.580 like bones in the dust.

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01:13:16.580 and we're back so like this is kind of the new the new matchup this is the new team

01:13:26.480 and this is interesting so there was uh just the way that nancy goldstone explained this in her

01:13:31.740 book so maria theresa is trying to get louis the 15th to agree to this plan and stuff and at that

01:13:37.720 point the best way to convince him of anything for anyone was to go to his mistress at that time

01:13:42.680 Madame de Pompadour and so it was Marie-Theresa via Madame de Pompadour and then I feel like

01:13:50.440 Catherine the Great was or was over in Russia and so it's like these three ladies just kind of like 0.81

01:13:55.540 running the game and I I like that as a as a moment for women getting good people but they're 0.98

01:14:02.660 women getting stuff done yeah I want to be clear I'm not saying they're good people doing good

01:14:09.300 things but i'm just like in this in this situation where women often don't have any political power 0.73

01:14:14.680 like these three figured it out and you know a little cameo from madame de pompadour sometimes

01:14:20.600 villainy doesn't need to be a guy it's it's okay well and when you've got friedrich there it's like

01:14:27.940 does anyone else reach that ascent to that it's like if he's there is anyone else can you call

01:14:33.860 anyone else the villain when he's there it's sad it is really sad how terrible all of these monarch

01:14:40.080 like the fact that the age of revolutions is coming it's just like yep no that makes sense

01:14:45.720 i see it now actually that's a great point that that's a great point lana because every episode

01:14:52.280 leading up to this has been talking about various revolutions in parts of the world this is why

01:14:56.520 terrible people doing terrible things being improperly set up for leadership most of them

01:15:03.400 can't balance a checkbook let alone lead a nation they're all constantly in debt yeah they're running

01:15:10.420 they're running everything on land rents and food rents and they're not and they're not paying any

01:15:17.160 taxes the rich like the nobles in any of these places none of them are paying taxes it's just

01:15:21.080 the poor people paying taxes and and that they're only getting their money they're not earning money

01:15:25.400 they're not investing money they're just taking money from the poor people who live on lands that

01:15:29.880 they've owned for thousands of years so they're not contributing they're not they're not protecting

01:15:35.680 people they're starting wars because people are trying to take away their toys and it's just it

01:15:41.740 gets to be so ridiculous it reminds me of like ancient greece not actual ancient greece but like

01:15:51.340 in the myths where it's like the gods are just toying with the people like these royals are 0.97

01:15:56.680 behaving like they're gods but they're not and the people that they're fucking over are eventually

01:16:03.660 gonna like team up against them it's it's funny to me that I can always like like Catherine 0.54

01:16:09.100 Domenici also not a good person but I you can admire somebody that just is like I'm going to

01:16:15.000 get things done with you or through you and Maria Teresa is absolutely one of those like I'm going

01:16:22.140 to get things done and she she doesn't make life better for people but she she's going to

01:16:29.860 accomplish things and she does at least get them fiscally stable at some point well and the thing

01:16:36.480 with this sort of story like again like I hope like on this podcast and in my research as well

01:16:41.460 it's like I never want to be like this person's a hero this person's a villain except for Friedrich

01:16:45.300 John Knox and a few other people but um but in this sort of situation it's just kind of like

01:16:52.100 here's the lot in life that she was given.

01:16:54.460 Like she was going to be, you know,

01:16:56.940 her father set her up to be the empress

01:16:58.320 and she was unprepared.

01:16:59.600 So it's like, she could have just been like,

01:17:01.160 okay, I don't want to be the empress.

01:17:02.720 I'll just go have babies, bye.

01:17:04.140 But she was like, no, I'm up to this challenge.

01:17:06.060 Like within the context that she's in,

01:17:08.380 she's doing what she feels like she needs to do.

01:17:13.640 She's doing above and beyond. 0.60

01:17:16.400 Yeah, she's doing above and beyond

01:17:17.320 what a lot of other people would have done

01:17:18.800 in this situation.

01:17:19.640 Not that it's a good situation.

01:17:20.900 any of her ancestors exactly any of her ancestors like they just got most of her children frankly

01:17:26.160 and they all get handed like like these strong economies all of these like everything to keep

01:17:31.720 them just have fat and happy their whole lives and she's handed the same thing but it's breaking

01:17:37.220 and she's like okay well then i guess i gotta fix it and she does asterix um fix it asterix

01:17:45.940 for as long as she's alive and then why does every I'm so mad I'm so mad when I was reading the book

01:17:55.680 that's like her and her daughters so I was reading about her then it's like Marie Antoinette and her

01:17:59.540 other daughters and suddenly I'm like why is Napoleon in this book no but everything everything

01:18:05.260 changed everything everything changed like Charlemagne everything changed okay so basically

01:18:12.980 she's she is she in France you know her whole all of her crowns and France are all together

01:18:19.600 they're like let's attack Prussia um Russia is going to help as well but then Friedrich heard

01:18:25.700 about it and he did a preemptive strike um but that made him look bad right because he was he

01:18:32.780 did Han shot first situation so Friedrich does this preemptive strike and so that makes Prussia

01:18:39.960 looked like the aggressor and so everybody teamed up against them russia france austria saxony

01:18:44.600 sweden and a number of german principalities converge um so prussia's only ally was britain

01:18:50.580 at this point and so a third war starts but this is the first world war

01:18:54.960 the first the first true world war and in america we were taught about it as the french and indian

01:19:02.900 war oh because here are the colonies that was it was it was um uh the colonists against the

01:19:12.840 the native americans and the french so this yeah this is kind of what's in terms of american

01:19:19.900 history canadian history so much of it is like england versus france because those were

01:19:23.660 kind of the powers but this is like no there's other countries and they all are powerful so it

01:19:28.380 It all started here.

01:19:29.640 So it's a long overarching thing.

01:19:34.100 It's like when I was,

01:19:35.520 one of my history classes I took in university,

01:19:38.920 I remember this always.

01:19:40.240 And my professor at the time,

01:19:42.220 I forget his name,

01:19:42.860 but I could look it up.

01:19:43.760 But he just said,

01:19:44.740 he's like in future,

01:19:46.280 he's like,

01:19:46.700 I think future historians will look at

01:19:48.000 the first world war and the second world war,

01:19:49.580 not as two things,

01:19:50.440 but as the world wars of the 20th century,

01:19:52.360 because one led directly to the other.

01:19:54.900 Like it was all one thing.

01:19:56.660 And this is kind of the same sort of stuff.

01:19:58.000 like this this is all one thing it's not just like the third Silesian war it's like this is just

01:20:02.860 continuing the first Silesian war this is not and Maria Teresa duking it out for who's going to be

01:20:09.280 in charge of the Holy Roman Empire eventually his heirs will just say screw it we're going to make

01:20:16.160 Germany a thing but they have to get through Napoleon first but Napoleon's not on the scene

01:20:24.060 friedrich is the only gross man villain conquering at the moment we've got right now

01:20:30.140 remember her like actually helpful admin assistant count it's so he was sent to

01:20:36.560 versailles as an ambassador to like ensure that the french were on side um meanwhile friedrich

01:20:43.480 secures a treaty with the british so it's just i don't know i feel like maybe the first graduating

01:20:49.860 class of her like diplomacy school has finished because now she's got people to send places

01:20:54.020 so now we've got it's like god so the the treaty of versailles the first one is we got to get a

01:21:03.060 bunch of those in throughout history this is literally called the first the first treaty

01:21:06.980 of versailles happens um so that's an agreement between france and maria theresa um so after this

01:21:15.380 agreement, France was in paper officially on their side against Prussia. And this is going to lead

01:21:21.860 to, guess what? The marriage of, in the future, Marie-Therese's daughter, Marie Antoinette, to

01:21:27.980 France, to a French prince. Anyway, so there's like more wars. Wars are happening. People are

01:21:35.340 seeding places. People are promising other places to other people. Silesia is still like her main

01:21:41.200 thing she wants um oh when i said before it was catherine the great it was not catherine the

01:21:45.620 great it was empress elizabeth was the third woman and that woman woman woman thing we talked

01:21:51.040 about her in the podcast before because i know that because empress elizabeth just died

01:21:55.420 um and then rush her heir um did not want to support maria theresa anymore in the meantime

01:22:03.440 and this is where we've been talking previously in this podcast season about france and what they

01:22:07.900 are up to with her colonies france was losing badly in america and india and so they had they

01:22:13.780 weren't able to support her as much so like the colonization stuff is taking up a lot of people's

01:22:18.500 soldiers and a lot of people's money but not um not the holy roman empire and not maria theresa

01:22:26.460 okay she's not doing that shit yeah she's not there's not holy roman empire colonies 0.94

01:22:33.080 She's busy. She's busy. 1.00

01:22:35.720 Even Prussia a little bit had colonies in the North and the Baltic.

01:22:40.060 Like, technically, they had uprisings.

01:22:42.800 They had to quell internally as well.

01:22:44.780 So she's like the only one that's just sitting there going, 0.72

01:22:47.760 I mean, I got to fight the Ottomans every once in a while, 0.88

01:22:50.500 but we've been doing that forever. 0.66

01:22:53.160 And she's also focusing so much on domestic reforms, 0.60

01:22:56.200 just like faking out the economy, opening schools, 1.00

01:22:58.880 like getting her army ready.

01:22:59.940 It's like that's what she's focusing on and nobody else is.

01:23:01.980 and then her husband francis died does anything change not really except her outfits because

01:23:09.380 like queen victoria later she always wore black after well and and now she has to deal with uh

01:23:15.400 joseph instead of instead of francis but i mean

01:23:19.980 remember in hungary she held up the little baby and she's like look at this baby won't you support

01:23:28.060 me and they're all like we'll die for you and your baby he's now an adult named joseph who is

01:23:33.900 her co-regent it's kind of like in ancient egypt times right it's like you have to have a man you

01:23:38.920 can't just have a woman it has to be a man and a woman so they become like okay so now you're

01:23:43.500 gonna step down it's just like no i'm not no why would i do that have you seen this i'm just getting

01:23:50.500 going guys i didn't raise him oh gosh okay so joseph

01:23:55.700 he is um so he was born in 1741 he becomes this is like i don't know 1763 so he's like 22 years

01:24:08.320 old and he's like 1763 we've talked about this time period ish on the podcast before like

01:24:14.220 everyone's all about russo and the enlightenment and joseph is that he is the new generation he's

01:24:20.200 like one of the things i want to mention lana i don't know if i'm sure you know this but maybe

01:24:23.900 other people don't so one of the reforms that he implemented he was just like everyone should be

01:24:28.540 treated the same we should this is not what he implemented but his philosophy it was like we

01:24:33.920 should say that but he wouldn't do it what he did do is he was like there shouldn't be different

01:24:40.860 kinds of funerals for different kinds of people everyone should be buried the same because we all

01:24:45.120 turn to ash in the end and so it was during this time when like no one could have fancy funerals

01:24:49.680 And that's when Mozart died in the Holy Roman Empire.

01:24:52.680 And that's why he's no one knows where his grave even is, because everyone was just being

01:24:56.440 dumped into piles at that point, because that was Joseph's thing.

01:24:59.340 His everybody's equal stuff only went as far as things that did not inconvenience him in

01:25:04.900 any way, shape or form.

01:25:06.220 Absolutely.

01:25:06.720 And when we watched Amadeus, he was played by known horrible human being, Jeffrey Jones.

01:25:12.960 And you don't get cast. 0.83

01:25:14.420 you don't get jeffrey jones cast as you unless you are also a known horrible human being 0.97

01:25:20.440 jeffrey jones um perhaps best known if not for being a convicted pedophile um but also he's 0.93

01:25:28.060 he's like the um who is he in ferris healer's day off he's like the principal

01:25:31.620 yeah so that's why i pictured the whole time when i was reading this book

01:25:36.560 so he's awful but she's still she's been empress for so long like she's got a lot of control and

01:25:45.640 power it's not like he came in and took over no she does step down because her son came along

01:25:51.740 so i want to just like sidebar talking about her children so she gave birth to 16 children 0.95

01:25:58.780 over 19 years as i said every nine months she had a job so um of these 16 births 13

01:26:06.220 survive infancy and 10 survive into adulthood which is good numbers for that era the small

01:26:12.300 box era and considering that she's like yeah well and then also well it's interesting later on she

01:26:18.660 would tell her daughters like when you're pregnant don't go horseback riding like keep yourself safe 0.87

01:26:22.960 like it's like she was running off on war campaigns this whole time like literally on 0.51

01:26:28.800 horse it's like she leads an army and then gives birth like she was not but this is we'll see this

01:26:34.460 a lot in the maria and tonight episode maria theresa doesn't she gives advice that's very

01:26:39.220 different from her own lived experience like she tells she trains her daughters and tells them

01:26:42.840 like oh you have to be like docile and like let your husband be in charge like girl what like

01:26:47.800 you're telling other people this she's like if you can if that's if that's your lot in life 0.99

01:26:55.360 let them do things but if they're stupid well you're gonna have to do it yourself so she has 0.99

01:27:02.020 her first um she had three daughters and then joseph was a son and so that was kind of like 0.98

01:27:07.280 in terms of her and getting people to support her as the empress because this is like very early in

01:27:12.300 her life so until she had a son everyone's just kind of like should we have her be empress but

01:27:16.980 then she had a son and it's like okay yeah so one of her children her favorite daughter maria

01:27:22.300 christina aka mimi was born on her 25th birthday four days before one of the army defeats so she's

01:27:29.820 just like at war being empress having children so five more children were born during the war

01:27:35.560 and then the way that her children kind of yeah so war and childbearing were carried on

01:27:41.440 simultaneously as per what i'm looking at so then she had more children during the peace

01:27:46.320 during peace times she just didn't stop she kind of there's sort of a break so it's a bit like um

01:27:53.860 queen elizabeth the second where she had like charles and anne and then there's kind of a break

01:27:59.300 And then she had Edward and Andrew.

01:28:01.180 So it's kind of like family number one, family number two.

01:28:04.320 And so not on purpose, but Maria, Teresa's children turned out like that because some

01:28:08.500 of the middle kids died of smallpox.

01:28:10.720 And so there's a break.

01:28:12.720 So she kind of had family number one, family number two.

01:28:14.880 Like when Marie Antoinette was born, her oldest sibling was like 20.

01:28:18.160 And there was so big, wide, Duggar-like spread of ages of children.

01:28:25.740 Smallpox, we mentioned before.

01:28:27.700 So smallpox.

01:28:29.300 People got it.

01:28:30.260 Some of them survived.

01:28:31.100 Some did not.

01:28:31.660 Her second son, Charles, died age 15 of smallpox.

01:28:34.780 Then her 12-year-old daughter, Maria Joanna, died of smallpox.

01:28:40.460 Joseph's first wife, Isabella Parma, died of smallpox.

01:28:44.060 His second wife also died of smallpox.

01:28:48.720 And Maria Teresa, she went to embrace this, like, daughter-in-law before she died.

01:28:54.420 And then she caught smallpox from her.

01:28:55.980 And it seemed for a while like she was going to die.

01:28:57.460 so this was that would have changed a lot of things actually um but she she's even given 0.98

01:29:02.960 last rites like she was on death door smallpox is one of those diseases like you can you can

01:29:08.120 survive it but you don't you don't survive unchanged no and she didn't it led to a lot of

01:29:14.800 blindness um physical deformities and like physical symptoms like it's a chronic illness

01:29:21.340 basically yeah and from the point where she survived smallpox like maritosa had various

01:29:26.540 health issues i mean i think anyone who gave birth 15 times would have some health issues but she

01:29:34.040 also had smallpox related things and then this is this is like what a saga she felt she's a catholic

01:29:39.620 person she felt guilty about a lot of things perhaps but she felt really badly about this

01:29:44.380 so when the daughter-in-law died of smallpox maria theresa went to pay her respects and she

01:29:50.600 brought her daughter Maria Josepha with her, but the tomb was not properly sealed. And then her

01:29:57.500 daughter Maria Josepha caught smallpox from, she didn't want to visit the crypt of her dead sister

01:30:03.620 in law, but Maria Teresa's like, no, you have to. And then she died. The daughter died. And this had 0.69

01:30:08.680 a whole cascading effect on which daughter married who, and that is part of why Marie Antoinette

01:30:13.780 ended up marrying the Dauphin of France, but we'll talk about that later. Anyway, so because of all

01:30:20.480 of these smallpox deaths around her, she decided to sponsor trials of inoculation. So she was,

01:30:28.940 we've talked a bit about Mary Wortley Montague was coming, like she was talking about inoculation

01:30:34.920 in England. And then over in France, there was inoculation going on. Like I remember Thomas

01:30:39.120 Jefferson was there and he was into inoculation. People in the American Revolution were into

01:30:43.240 inoculation. So Marie Therese is like an early-ish adopter to this. And she insisted on members of

01:30:48.760 family getting inoculated and this was when we were still inoculating people uh the cure was to

01:30:56.680 be exposed to uh cowpox yeah this is variolation not vaccination yeah so you just like scratch a

01:31:06.500 person and put a little cowpox on them with with a disease that's close enough so you get sick but

01:31:13.380 You don't get you don't get dying sick because once you have smallpox, you don't get it again unless you get measles.

01:31:20.680 And then the fun starts for everything.

01:31:23.640 But once you get smallpox, you don't get smallpox again.

01:31:27.560 So cowpox was close enough to it that you could just get cowpox and then you wouldn't get smallpox.

01:31:35.600 Exactly. It's sort of like cowpox in humans, like it's terrible for cows, but in humans, it's not as deadly, but it's related enough to smallpox.

01:31:43.380 So, 1770, as part of this whole, like, her lands, like, in France, we have this deal. This is why Marie Antoinette married Louis Dauphin of France, to sort of, like, cement this relationship between the two countries, which was a big deal at the time.

01:32:03.120 Now, Marie-Theresa, she had all these children. She was busy with wars and things. And I think it's important for people to know that she was also really shitty to her children.

01:32:11.620 she wasn't a mother she was a queen she was an empress first and a mother eventually 0.68

01:32:17.840 and i think that was standard for most that wasn't strange for the time period where it's like

01:32:24.380 even downton abbey and stuff like you see it's like very rich people would send their children

01:32:29.500 off to boarding school whatever like you weren't with your children every day you'd see them a bit

01:32:32.840 but they would have wet nurses they'd have governesses like it's so but she took this up a 0.99

01:32:37.220 notch like she wrote letters to her like she married her daughters off to different places 1.00

01:32:41.140 to like cement alliances in places 1.00

01:32:42.700 and wrote them a letter like every week

01:32:47.340 telling them what to do.

01:32:48.880 And she had spies on the scene to write back to her

01:32:50.900 to tell her what her daughters were up to.

01:32:52.740 She didn't trust the daughters to report on their own.

01:32:54.600 She's like the opposite of Charlotte. 0.98

01:32:57.300 Where she, Charlotte expected her daughters

01:32:59.580 to stay close to her and never do anything.

01:33:01.900 Maria Teresa expected her daughters to be doing things

01:33:05.100 and to be good at it. 0.90

01:33:07.040 She wanted her daughters, yeah, she wanted,

01:33:09.220 even though she hadn't trained them to be good 0.89

01:33:10.800 at being a diplomat. They weren't such a diplomat school, but she was just, she wanted them to do

01:33:15.700 what she herself would have done if she was in their situation. Well, she was never trained. So

01:33:20.260 she, she reproduced her own trauma of, well, I figured it out. Why aren't you? So she had

01:33:29.160 different reasons to be mean to various of her children, except for her favorite daughter, 0.98

01:33:33.640 her favorite daughter, Mimi, Maria Christina. And she, who was the only one allowed to marry 1.00

01:33:38.680 the person who she chose for herself um but they did not have any children but because she didn't 0.92

01:33:43.480 have any children then mimi was able to hang out with her mother all the time so she hated all of

01:33:48.660 her children except for that one which was kind of queen charlotte-esque which was her favorite one 0.92

01:33:54.300 yeah um so one of her she wanted to have as many grandchildren as possible and she had a rule that

01:34:01.220 the firstborn daughter to all of her children had to be called maria theresa which is why there are

01:34:05.420 an incredible amount of people called maria theresa in the early 1800s um so she had about

01:34:13.240 two dozen grandchildren by the time that she died most of whom are called maria theresa as well

01:34:19.440 she wasn't any nicer too just because they were her grandchildren

01:34:22.040 no no they were named after her and she's like good i never have to speak to them again

01:34:27.860 so when we're talking so this is pivoting back to um when her husband died and she was devastated

01:34:39.040 um because she was obsessed with him she licked him once now so she not only did she only wear

01:34:47.500 black for the rest of her life but she painted her rooms black um and had her hair all cut off

01:34:52.320 So it's a, you know, she has a dramatic statement.

01:34:55.140 She actually did mourn her husband.

01:34:57.500 Unlike Victoria, that's like, yeah, I'm mourning my husband.

01:35:00.960 I don't have another one.

01:35:02.980 I don't know what you're talking about.

01:35:04.740 Ray Trace is like, nope, I'm done now.

01:35:06.880 I don't have to have any more kids. 0.89

01:35:08.180 I don't have to have any more husbands.

01:35:11.020 What Len is alluding to is to the recent book, Victoria's Secret by Fern Riddell,

01:35:16.660 which is talking about how Queen Victoria,

01:35:18.320 she was known to have had a very close companionship with this Scottish like

01:35:22.400 equerry or something after Albert died but Fern Riddell found some records that

01:35:26.540 Queen Victoria actually secretly married him which is like pretty obvious that she 0.87

01:35:30.420 was the little nympho was screwing him but she was Queen Victoria was literally 1.00

01:35:36.300 an infomaniac um she couldn't go that long without fucking like being fucked 1.00

01:35:40.080 like she that's her whole thing um and we'll talk about that maybe maybe in a 1.00

01:35:45.100 later episode okay trace is like no now i get to rule my country marina theresa is like exactly 0.91

01:35:53.420 she's like okay you know what every it's just so emo to like paint all her rooms black i'm gonna

01:35:58.680 be sad about it but i'm gonna keep doing my job i'm gonna be sad and you're gonna know i'm sad

01:36:04.120 but um so she kept being like empress doing empress stuff but she just didn't go to like

01:36:08.700 the theater and stuff because she was depressed obviously like they've been together for decades

01:36:12.160 um so he died on august 18 1765 and so every year she would spend the whole month of august

01:36:20.380 alone in her room as well as the 18th of every month she just wanted a vacation

01:36:25.480 just need a day off i'm gonna do it with the day my husband died

01:36:32.000 but losing him but also losing him and also like the after effects of having survived like

01:36:37.700 she was given last rights like her smallpox situation was like could not have been worse

01:36:42.140 except for dying but anyway so she wrote after he died i hardly know myself now for i've become

01:36:47.280 like an animal with no true life or reasoning power although she was still she's still depressed

01:36:52.760 and i think we all know people like this there's people who can be high functioning depressed

01:36:57.960 like she was excelling at her work and also when you incredibly when you have sometimes when you

01:37:05.400 have chronic illness and depression being extraordinary at it like at whatever it is

01:37:11.200 you throw yourself at is the depression because then you don't have to think about your life you

01:37:15.740 don't have to like you just you just keep doing you keep you keep throwing yourself at the the

01:37:20.540 new bigger problem and then you don't have to address the fact that you're in constant pain

01:37:23.840 or whatever it's like and i was just thinking also like she was pregnant or giving birth or

01:37:31.020 postpartum for 19 years like i think she's got some like mental health stuff from like constant 0.97

01:37:38.920 childbirth as well that could be exacerbating or adding to what's going on with her now 0.90

01:37:44.340 it's just one of those people that just never stopped like she she could not stop

01:37:49.740 what she whatever she threw herself at exactly like she was well i think she was just constantly

01:37:56.220 having babies and then to suddenly stop having babies that would probably affect you in some

01:37:59.500 way too if you just got used to that like i i don't think i don't think her life was great

01:38:04.500 i don't think she enjoyed what she was doing i think she just didn't know how to live any other

01:38:08.460 life well and there was no other life for her to live like she was still so um single-handedly 0.84

01:38:16.140 like keeping things running i'd imagine like she would just be one of those extraordinarily intense 0.61

01:38:22.420 people and you just you just get out you you either help her or you get out of her way there

01:38:29.140 are no other options she's the sort of person where you're like why you know it's like somebody

01:38:33.780 who you're working with it's it's like why haven't they retired like isn't she 65 but it's like she

01:38:39.540 knows if she retires she'll just be done like she needs she needs to be doing work and it's like

01:38:44.980 the opposite of sishi sishi just wanted to retire and paint and do whatever maria theresa is just

01:38:51.680 like this is the only thing keeping me alive oh i know don't know my children i don't particularly

01:38:57.420 like them but i'm obsessed with telling them what to do constantly so anyway so she and so her son

01:39:08.020 joseph is so they're like co-rulers on paper on paper on paper here's here's what uh so he

01:39:17.720 i'll read a quote from this essay despite joseph's intellect maria theresa's force of

01:39:25.200 personality often made joseph cower she was in charge and terrifying and it's interesting we see

01:39:33.780 in marie antoinette's story like she had a lifelong like terror of older women

01:39:39.260 it's like just because you're are a mother it doesn't mean you're a good mother

01:39:44.700 yeah no she just like yeah she gave birth to a 15 traumatized people who then traumatized

01:39:50.820 their own children so marie theresa though she wrote about her son joseph we never see

01:39:54.800 each other except at dinner his temper gets worse every day please burn this letter i just try to

01:40:00.060 avoid public scandal so joseph was like a messy drama queen as well um he often threatened to

01:40:09.680 resign but he never did probably have to give up money if you did that maria theresa believed that

01:40:17.520 when she recovered from smallpox it was a sign from god that god wanted her to reign until she died

01:40:22.800 that is why you survived i guess sure but also it was in his best interest that she remained there

01:40:29.980 because when things went badly he could blame her um and he avoided taking on any responsibility

01:40:34.260 himself he was he was a trust fund baby and that's all he wanted he had all these like

01:40:39.940 i i feel like if he was born in the modern era he'd be talking about ayn rand like

01:40:45.460 he was one of those guys that like oh yes i've read the modern the philosophy and it's just

01:40:52.140 we're so equal now it's like yes you say that from your yacht club dude 0.97

01:40:58.260 in that way he is like his father's son of just being like a useless person

01:41:05.000 um okay and then eventually just kind of like she started realizing like she's being

01:41:12.500 she's not the force in europe that she used to be um so joseph worked together with this guy

01:41:18.980 Kaunitz to arrange the first partition of Poland. Maria Theresa didn't want to do this because she 0.99

01:41:26.960 this would hurt the Polish people. But eventually she realized that even though she was disagreeing,

01:41:31.780 they're still going to do it. So then she was just like, OK, I guess do it then. I guess like

01:41:35.620 her vote was not as like informally was not as important. Yeah. They didn't know nearly as much

01:41:42.740 poland is russia and and prussia russia and prussia did and then speaking of guess who's back

01:41:51.420 on the scene it's fried yet because so some not dead for a spoiler a long time so 1777 the elector

01:42:01.660 of bavaria died without leaving any children and so everybody was just like oh let's take over his

01:42:06.760 territories joseph was one of the people who wanted to do that and so was friedrich so the

01:42:12.240 war of Bavarian succession happened. Maria Teresa, again, she didn't want to go to occupy Bavaria.

01:42:20.680 Later, she went over Joseph's head to make peace proposals to Friedrich.

01:42:25.700 But she's just not in charge like she used to be. It's kind of like she had all those old man

01:42:29.960 advisors and they were so out of the loop. They didn't know what was going on. She's kind of

01:42:33.260 become that now. Like she's kind of superfluous, which is what happens when you stay in a job too

01:42:37.940 long that's why people should retire when you're able to wish i could okay so war stuff i'm gonna

01:42:44.540 have it's not interesting they just keep fighting each other and it's not it's not like they're

01:42:49.920 fighting for big stakes either they're just they're fighting for for what will eventually

01:42:55.200 become the remnants after napoleon like all the pieces that need to be picked up after napoleon

01:43:02.720 finally gets sent off so this is like we're in the last decade of her reign slash life um so

01:43:10.120 we've got the partition of poland happened then there's the bavarian wars of succession

01:43:15.920 um and then friedrich is on the scene um bavaria bohemia bavaria another winter war happens

01:43:28.280 um oh here we go you speak some german right yes okay so this war the the war in invading bohemia

01:43:36.840 it soon degenerated into a winter standoff highlighted by soldiers scrounging for

01:43:41.880 potatoes in the frozen ground earning it the german nickname kartoffel krig

01:43:46.060 potato war the kartoffel krig

01:43:51.200 the potato war just trying to get potatoes out of the frozen ground

01:43:58.080 This is why you don't fight and win her. 0.81

01:44:02.040 Yeah, like it worked for her that one time and maybe some other times, but not this time.

01:44:05.600 Friedrich was better at building a standing army. 1.00

01:44:07.920 Like he was he was a dickhead and we hate him. 0.99

01:44:10.540 But he saw what she did and he's like, OK, I can do that. 0.99

01:44:15.600 I mean, I got to wait for my super soldiers to be born.

01:44:18.180 But he he had more money.

01:44:20.660 He had a more warlike nation that he could build a standing army because they kind of

01:44:26.720 needed it to keep their serfs in line anyway. She was she was building a modern army. He was

01:44:33.080 building he was building a very feudal system. And she was also focusing on stuff like schooling

01:44:39.020 and like she was the economy. And Friedrich was just like army building, breeding warriors.

01:44:44.860 That's all he was up to. He was taking everything from his land and putting it into getting more

01:44:50.340 land she was actually trying to develop her resources that she already had which included

01:44:57.580 the human resources so this leads us all up to maria theresa and this is like quite if this is

01:45:03.280 a movie like quite a turn where she secretly meets with friedrich for this peace treaty like going

01:45:07.560 behind joseph's back ending the conflict so this prevented friedrich from taking over more of her

01:45:14.100 like she was doing this for her people like as much as she's like a bad mom anti-semitic like 0.99

01:45:20.640 like control freak like all these things like she did as she took her role as like mother of the

01:45:28.460 nation or whatever very seriously like she did this piece because she knew that this was in the

01:45:32.120 best interest of her subjects so yeah so here's some this is like we're getting into her final

01:45:37.960 days so that was kind of like her last hurrah was like this peace treaty and i love that her last

01:45:42.080 who were always like pissing off Joseph as well, because he's insufferable. 0.88

01:45:47.480 He deserves being pissed off. And he was bad at being the emperor, as we'll maybe talk about

01:45:51.700 later. He was a terrible emperor on his own. He's he's in the Maria. You know, the one thing he did

01:45:59.820 that was good was he explained to Maria Antoinette how to get pregnant. That worked out so well for 0.91

01:46:04.900 her. Well, she did get pregnant, Lana. That was her problem was the pregnancy. 0.91

01:46:12.080 if her mother had taught her fiscal reform that might have been more useful

01:46:17.580 yeah yeah as far as she knew that was a problem anyway we'll talk about that in subsequent episodes

01:46:24.360 so anyway this is so some more information about her like health we were talking about before like

01:46:28.840 the smallpox um so she suffered so she got smallpox in 1767 and then she died 1780 so that's

01:46:35.580 like 13 years later so ever since the smallpox she had shortness of breath fatigue cough distress

01:46:41.680 i think just mental health things um and insomnia she later developed edema so just like everything

01:46:48.440 is kind of mounting like everything is combining to just be like she's got more and more health

01:46:54.920 symptoms she she probably had one like lung disease as a result of the smallpox because 0.89

01:47:01.600 if the smallpox kiss your lungs it's awful god smallpox in your lungs yikes okay that's like

01:47:08.340 in another future episode we're going to hear about somebody with tuberculosis of the spine

01:47:13.240 no thank you so when you get get a disease in your inside parts not just on your outside skin

01:47:20.200 yes so anyway so she fell like she fell ill on november 24th but i think she's been ill a long

01:47:26.900 time but just she was probably not able to get out of bed that day after as you're explaining

01:47:31.560 like powering through because keeping busy makes her not have to think about anything else two days

01:47:38.260 later, she asked for the last rites. And two days later from that, she told her doctor,

01:47:43.200 I'm going to die. And then she died on November 29th, surrounded by her remaining children.

01:47:47.700 Not sure which ones those are. She had two older daughters. One of them

01:47:50.720 had health problems and so was forced to become an abbess of a nunnery. And then she had another

01:47:56.480 daughter who was beautiful, but then got smallpox and then was not beautiful anymore. So then she

01:48:01.980 was also forced to become the abbess of a nunnery. So maybe just those two.

01:48:05.300 i wonder how many letters they got about being in charge of an abbey oh man lana guess what zero

01:48:11.740 because you know why they stayed living with her she got they were the abbess of abbeys

01:48:17.040 just a whiteboard the passive-aggressive post-its they were the abbess of abbeys but they were both

01:48:26.900 like we don't want to leave you and she's like okay you can just be a nun but live here with me

01:48:30.740 everything unchanged and then when joseph took over like after maria theresa dies he made them

01:48:36.780 go to the nunnery well they're technically in charge fair i mean fair it's like if you're

01:48:45.700 going to be in charge of a nunnery go to the nunnery you would think um anyway so she's buried

01:48:54.020 in the imperial crypt in vienna next to her husband in a coffin she had inscribed during

01:48:58.180 her lifetime because she couldn't even let somebody else inscribe her own coffin she had to

01:49:04.220 be in charge of that too she was gonna inscribe oh you know what of course she's like why would

01:49:09.820 you leave that to chance so when Friedrich the Great heard that she died he said she had honored

01:49:15.820 her throne and her sex and although they had fought against each other in three wars he never

01:49:20.720 considered her his enemy that is what it means he's not saying like wow I respect her he's saying

01:49:27.700 like well she did good for a woman fine for a lady with her lady parts so with her death the

01:49:35.180 house of hobsburg died out and was replaced by the house of hobsburg lorraine genetically the same

01:49:41.260 yeah yeah but god forbid you recognize that

01:49:46.560 so in terms of her legacy like what what had she wrought um and you know it's like definitely 0.89

01:49:56.340 if someone else had been in this role things would have gone differently i think because she

01:50:02.340 personally did a lot of stuff like she reformed the whole empire into a modern state um that kind 0.98

01:50:08.200 of elevated its international standing she centralized and modernized institutions um

01:50:13.660 after her other rulers of austria were more modern and left kind of less sort of like 0.99

01:50:20.000 surfdom based and she like we're talking about like she invested money into the actual people

01:50:28.400 actually living there like domestic stuff like schools and welfare like caring about the people

01:50:32.300 instead of just like what Friedrich was doing like building armies so that had positive effects

01:50:37.440 to subsequent generations of people who had access to education and were maybe a bit better

01:50:43.060 taken care of. Let's see. So a number of streets and squares were named after her. I feel like

01:50:51.540 she chose them. Painted the signs herself. Anyway, so in Vienna in 1888, so that's like

01:51:00.380 100 years after she died, a large bronze monument was built in her honor at Maria Theresienplatz.

01:51:05.360 Theresienplatz.

01:51:06.860 Theresienplatz. And then there's also the Maria Theresienplatz Garden Square is

01:51:13.040 constructed in her memory in 2013 um there's a city that used to be called subotica subotica

01:51:21.640 doesn't matter because it was renamed maria teresiopolis

01:51:25.040 that's just how it works which i i like well also because it kind of looks like mia thermopolis

01:51:33.560 which is the princess diaries ass in 1890 an asteroid was named after her a crystal chandelier

01:51:40.800 style with bohemian crystal glass um was named in her honor it's known as the marie therese

01:51:45.900 chandelier um if you go to the hofburg palace there is the maria theresa room um which contains

01:51:54.700 a large portrait of her depicting her in her hungarian coronation dress i'm not sure if that's

01:52:00.480 on the horse or not but like there's a pretty badass portrait of her in the hungarian coronation

01:52:05.060 I think it's the one on the horse.

01:52:06.700 On the horse.

01:52:07.220 Yeah, it's a great portrait.

01:52:09.720 Anyway, all oaths of allegiance ceremonies

01:52:11.500 of a newly elected government of Austria

01:52:13.660 are conducted in this room

01:52:14.740 with a signing taking place

01:52:16.120 underneath her portrait.

01:52:17.480 So in that way, her ghost is still in charge.

01:52:20.560 As she would have wanted to be.

01:52:22.240 She's watching over them

01:52:23.480 and she will write them

01:52:24.340 a strongly worded letter if they fail.

01:52:26.280 She will, yeah.

01:52:27.520 So I also like this,

01:52:28.640 like in terms of Hungary,

01:52:31.380 there's the,

01:52:32.200 in the Sandor Palace in Budapest,

01:52:34.120 there is the Maria Teresa room, which is the, so center of palace is the official residence of the

01:52:40.620 president of Hungary. And in the palace, there's the Maria Teresa room, which has a portrait of

01:52:44.520 her dressed for her coronation alongside a portrait of her husband, Francis, on the other

01:52:49.060 side. She probably insisted on that. Anyway, this room is used for official state receptions.

01:52:55.100 And that is Maria Teresa, who is at this point, probably best known as the mother of Marie

01:53:02.080 Antoinette but as we've discussed she had a lot of interesting things to talk about her as well

01:53:07.620 and now we need to Lana get into scoring and this will be interesting it's not gonna be high

01:53:14.200 if you're new to the podcast uh we just kind of wrap stories up and just there's other podcasts

01:53:22.200 and no tea no shade at all this is what actually inspired me there's other podcasts like Rex Factor

01:53:26.360 that score, you know, monarchs and people on different sorts of things. And it really rewards

01:53:32.220 people who are like, it's funny, she would do well on Rex Factor, which is the podcast where

01:53:37.600 they talk about monarchs. But in my show, I wanted to reward people further lesser for other qualities

01:53:44.340 that are often like feminine coded qualities, where it's just like, we don't often talk about

01:53:48.060 people who are able to lead wars. She's somebody who did. And then I'll see where that lands are

01:53:52.860 on our Fredigan Memorial Scandaliciousness Scale.

01:53:56.020 So the first category is Scandaliciousness. 1.00

01:54:01.040 How scandalous was she seen by people? 1.00

01:54:03.020 I would say she herself would have seen herself 0.99

01:54:05.420 not as scandalous.

01:54:06.200 I think some people would be like, 1.00

01:54:07.080 a woman in charge? 1.00

01:54:08.280 Harming my pills, you know? 1.00

01:54:10.240 I think that's the only thing she had going for her 1.00

01:54:12.560 is like a woman in charge. 1.00

01:54:15.220 A woman not failing at this job. 0.97

01:54:17.520 How dare she? 1.00

01:54:19.240 And pregnant? 1.00

01:54:20.680 What's just like... 1.00

01:54:22.860 yeah shouldn't she be at home yeah you know like knitting so i feel like that could be like a one

01:54:29.400 it's gonna give her a negative five so a one's great i know you can't go negative on the scale 1.00

01:54:35.340 we could give her we could give her a zero no i think a one is appropriate for being a woman 0.91

01:54:41.000 in a terror like yeah because the scandalousness it's like we're talking about people

01:54:45.640 in their context how scandalous like we've talked about people who did like bananas 0.63

01:54:50.000 as scandalous things but everyone like ancient roman people where it's like yeah but everyone

01:54:54.040 was stabbing people so that in that context that's not scandalous they had orgies for funsies like

01:55:00.740 that is not a culture of scandal on the same scale yeah to get like a to get a high school

01:55:06.900 in scandalousness in ancient rome would be like pretty difficult to caligula maybe so but for her 0.99

01:55:13.760 yeah i think one because there were people who were just like a woman in charge and pregnant and 0.99

01:55:18.460 raising armies and doing things yeah so i mean she's a contemporary of madame du pompadour she 1.00

01:55:25.280 didn't have like even in her own time she wasn't even remotely scandalous no no she like fell in

01:55:35.380 love with francis when she was like five years old was loyal to him until the day he died spent

01:55:40.260 the rest of her life mourning him like that was not she's not scandalous and i respect that and

01:55:47.020 that's what she's like exactly exactly okay but this is where we get to scheminess

01:55:52.380 this is this is this is her area this is this is her her wheelhouse because if we talk about like 0.94

01:56:00.280 in the grand context of scheminess like on the one hand she's got she's got schemes where she's 1.00

01:56:04.560 just like oh you don't want a woman as roman emperors what if my husband is the emperor and 1.00

01:56:10.420 oh he doesn't have enough land what if we give him land but then also like scheminess in like 1.00

01:56:15.900 often we don't see women on the show who have the ability to go to war and stuff but like she made 0.99

01:56:21.860 a lot of decisions and a lot of these were effective decisions that were good for her

01:56:24.920 subjects and good for her country the schemes of like oh we don't have any like good diplomats

01:56:30.360 let's open a school and train them like she was she was constantly like her schemes were effective

01:56:34.780 she was a long-term player too she didn't be like oh well i'm just gonna solve this problem

01:56:41.240 for today. It's like, no, I'm going to build, I'm going to build schools. I'm going to teach

01:56:46.400 people how to run armies. I can't deal with this nonsense anymore. Well, and even like super early

01:56:52.020 in her reign where it was just sort of like tentative that she could even be in charge.

01:56:54.860 She's like, okay, I need Hungary to support me. And then it's like, well, the only way to do that

01:56:58.920 is to go there and do this thing. But I don't know how to ride a horse. Okay. I'll learn horseback

01:57:03.760 riding. It's like, oh, that's not enough. What if I bring my baby? Like she's always kind of like

01:57:07.260 thinking i do i will say she also had a scheme to to kick all the jews out of the empire so that

01:57:14.620 scheme didn't happen and i'm not saying all her schemes were good i'm just saying like did she

01:57:18.780 cut was she a schemey person and i think she was never not scheming yeah the the the situation in

01:57:25.160 prague there's a lot of there's a lot of really interesting books about the awful things she did

01:57:29.640 to Prague during that time if you're interested in that era of history um from the other side

01:57:37.740 there's some there's some very interesting I I haven't read them in a long time so I don't have

01:57:41.340 them off the top of my head but go looking for them because it's it's the the undoing of that

01:57:47.280 was was a fun thing to read about but in terms of like her and schemes like she was scheming up 0.71

01:57:53.360 until the day she like she she got her own gravestone she did not leave anything to anyone 0.80

01:57:58.260 else i she was micromanaging her own death she was like excuse me i would like the last rights

01:58:03.920 now thank you i will be dead any minute please give them to me this month okay it's gonna be

01:58:08.040 two more days but you know it's good to be ahead and the letters she sent to her children like

01:58:15.600 micromanaging off their lives like i'm comfortable with a tent i'm happy with a 10 i'm happy with

01:58:21.500 her having something in her favor i can't think of any schemes she did not at least attempt to do

01:58:28.000 she was never not scheming except as a kid but that's because she didn't she wasn't allowed to

01:58:34.780 um so her significance this is interesting because like like both of us said i think like

01:58:41.720 her answer like someone else in the same role might not have done this made the same choices

01:58:47.840 she did they wouldn't have had the same long-term effects um friedrich maybe would have taken over

01:58:52.300 more and what would be the effect of that but then also just her having these 15 children and

01:58:56.320 who they were and the fact that she married marie antoinette to the dauphin of france

01:59:00.380 like affected the trajectory of a lot of things so i feel like her sign of gets as high but she's

01:59:06.800 not well known like she's not yeah she she impacted a a lot like she started a war in amer in the

01:59:17.660 colonies the united states like the united states and canada one of like like quebec exists because

01:59:24.660 of her because she's like oh oh britain you're not going to be friends with me anymore all right

01:59:30.900 i'm going to go be friends with france and now and now canada has quebec like

01:59:36.420 like the international repercussions of her are pretty major but then and you know it's like oh

01:59:42.960 this room in this palace in hungary but in terms of like i'm a canadian you're an american this

01:59:47.280 podcast we listen to a lot of people i think most people don't know about her so she's not

01:59:52.360 significant like in a cleopatra way in a marie antoinette way so it's like she was a person of

01:59:57.980 significance but is she remembered and significance kind of measures both things so i don't know i

02:00:03.580 don't know what what that is numerically i was trying to think of somebody else who's similar

02:00:07.320 to like see what we did for significance of somebody else but i don't know who else is similar

02:00:11.240 i would say a five just because because she had let's do a five consequences but then napoleon

02:00:20.040 happened and i think if napoleon hadn't happened i think we would know more about her but napoleon

02:00:26.580 did happen and then who gives it who gives a shit about what happened in in the 1790s of the holy

02:00:32.180 roman empire it's not a thing anymore that's true like she was so significant at the time like so

02:00:37.520 significant at the time and then like revolutions followed by napoleon followed by like yeah so like

02:00:42.200 the significance she had was kind of undone i like i like a five because she was very significant

02:00:48.100 in her era at her time i think things might have gone very differently but then right napoleon still

02:00:53.580 would there or would he have if she hadn't married marie antoinette to the dauphin right like if

02:01:02.240 there hadn't been a seven years war and she hadn't made off a marie antoinette um would there have 0.99

02:01:08.460 been napoleon would napoleon have had room but also if she hadn't taken that one daughter to 0.61

02:01:14.360 see the dead body of the other person that daughter wouldn't have died and a different

02:01:17.720 daughter would have married the dolphin she may have caused napoleon but also i don't think i

02:01:24.780 don't think that train was ever going off that track i don't think i don't care who it was

02:01:30.020 no literally very shows up as like what do you mean you're fiscally irresponsible

02:01:36.160 my mother fixed that in like five years like i don't understand this problem that you're having

02:01:44.360 No, it's true.

02:01:46.740 Some things are just canon events, yeah.

02:01:49.200 The final category is the sexism bonus. 1.00

02:01:51.720 How much did sexism get in her way? 1.00

02:01:53.500 And I think at first it did,

02:01:54.900 but she found, like some other people in the show,

02:01:56.620 like she found ways to wiggle around that

02:01:58.220 and work within it,

02:01:59.340 so it kind of didn't get in her way. 1.00

02:02:01.040 She bulldozed sexism. 1.00

02:02:03.800 Like, I think it tried. 1.00

02:02:06.200 What else could she have done

02:02:08.540 that she didn't do? 1.00

02:02:09.540 I think sexism tried and failed, I guess. 1.00

02:02:14.360 i think you know it's like sexism effect until she became the empress and then she's just like

02:02:19.320 get out of my way sexism it's like i wasn't educated i'm gonna self-educate myself like 0.72

02:02:23.860 you didn't teach me how to ride a horse i'm gonna learn how to ride a horse like she just

02:02:26.780 you expect me to step aside from my son forget that he thinks we're so smart 1.00

02:02:32.160 when they're like well you can't be a woman and be holy roman emperor she's like what if my husband

02:02:40.380 like she honestly this this category is there for people where sexism got on their way and i don't 0.99

02:02:45.280 think it it didn't it didn't not she wouldn't let it but she wouldn't let it and she had people 0.95

02:02:52.200 around her who supported that i think because she was terrifying um but like the old bingo men 0.99

02:02:57.920 weren't like you can't be in charge they're just like oh someone's in charge great can we keep 0.97

02:03:01.880 playing golf great like for sexism bonus like definitely a low number oh yeah i i i'm okay

02:03:10.840 with her not getting a bonus there because she's like i don't deserve one i'm gonna give her one

02:03:16.980 in sexism because it got on her way to the extent that she had to spend her time convincing people 1.00

02:03:21.860 to let her be the heir and if she had been a boy or if there hadn't been the the patriarchy

02:03:27.340 she could have just taken over with less war probably some war but probably less war so she

02:03:33.560 had a bit of extra war she had to do so that's one point but i don't know if anything would have

02:03:37.740 stopped friedrich honestly no i think he's also a canon event it kind of like from friedrich to

02:03:44.660 napoleon it's just like yeah history okay so this gives her a 17 she's not the lowest because

02:03:52.900 charlotte exists she's not the lowest she is the third lowest alongside which of my favorites

02:03:58.600 okay uh so the lowest is queen charlotte has a one and then madame du barry has a 15

02:04:06.760 and then maria theresa is is up here with a 17 and cece's just a little bit above her

02:04:13.260 yeah so kind of you know it's like great gowns it's interesting the people at the bottom of

02:04:18.300 this are very much just like great gowns beautiful gowns maria theresa is the most like effective

02:04:22.160 leader to be here but it's just she wasn't scandalous at all it was too busy being an

02:04:27.920 effective leader to do anything interesting i'm sorry well well it's similar to like empress

02:04:35.320 elizabeth of russia she's got a 23 so she's a bit but she like did a coup and took over and had a

02:04:40.380 lover um so like that she got some scandal points that maria trice didn't get but i think the two 0.99

02:04:45.300 of them like they work together on that one thing and they similar just kind of like women who are 1.00

02:04:50.220 just like everyone else here is an asshole I'm gonna take over here we go like they had that in 0.99

02:04:55.080 common so they're in the same neighborhood but just Mary Teresa truly no no scandal at all 0.99

02:05:00.460 her husband would have had tons her son also up there but her no she didn't have time for that

02:05:07.900 she was too busy making life she was too yeah she was just yeah it's it's such an interesting story

02:05:16.020 And thank you for having the patience for me to take a year and a half to work my way up to it.

02:05:21.480 You were so hesitant.

02:05:22.680 It was, it was, oh, well, she's not interesting.

02:05:26.160 I'm like, oh, give her a chance, please.

02:05:31.700 For myself and the way that this podcast season was structured, like I had to learn so much stuff to be able to appreciate her story.

02:05:40.400 Like I had to learn about the American Revolution and the French connection to the American Revolution.

02:05:46.020 And like I there was a lot I needed a background stuff that I needed to know before I could make sense of all this.

02:05:53.060 And I finally can. So I was finally a place where I could I could appreciate it.

02:05:57.120 Yeah. Understanding the Age of Revolutions is is hard because there's so many overlapping interacting pieces.

02:06:04.340 I'm glad you put so much effort into it.

02:06:06.540 Well, and thank you for inspiring this whole season in the first place, Lana. 1.00

02:06:10.540 She's like, I'm not going to do a Habsburg. I was like, I think you're going to do a Habsburg.

02:06:16.020 yeah well I think I think what I've learned is that my aversion I don't know I don't what 1.00

02:06:22.980 I just started fighting Habsburgs and they all the same name and it was all this sort of like 1.00

02:06:27.040 not Germany area and I'm just like I can't handle this I can't read about this who are these I can't 1.00

02:06:32.980 it was just it was too much it's too overwhelming but I just have to take in bite-sized pieces and

02:06:37.500 then I can do it like the Austrian Habsburgs I'm also not a fan of the Spanish Habsburgs

02:06:42.380 So I do not judge you for that at all, but I'm glad you finally understood that there

02:06:47.000 are two different groups.

02:06:48.700 That was a major thing for me as well.

02:06:50.320 But also even just in terms of like reading about this and then getting ready for the

02:06:55.100 Marie Antoinette episodes, like even French history of this period, I was just like, they're

02:06:58.920 all called Louis.

02:06:59.700 I can't handle it.

02:07:00.960 But I'm like, no, they all have little names.

02:07:03.180 They all have little nicknames.

02:07:04.520 Everybody gave themselves a little nickname.

02:07:07.460 They all go by their titles.

02:07:08.940 So just like it's that, oh, that guy.

02:07:10.520 Oh, that guy.

02:07:10.960 i so it's it's the the way that this this extremely long podcast season was shaped was

02:07:17.260 was mirrored my own personal education of myself to the point where i feel competent to be able to

02:07:24.540 join you for this episode and in a few weeks to do the marie antoinette episode as well i wouldn't

02:07:28.900 have been able to just jump into that there's too much but but understanding maria theresa as well

02:07:33.640 as i do now is going to really help explain the marie antoinette episode especially when her

02:07:38.200 mother just keeps writing her letters like did you have your period was it late was your period

02:07:41.680 late it's just like chill out oh my god these are not my big problems right now mother

02:07:46.080 they called it did you get a visit from the general that's what they called having their

02:07:53.820 period which is ironic considering napoleon

02:07:56.740 was the general unfortunately yes the general did visit me this month

02:08:04.020 are you expecting a visit from the general oh my god

02:08:09.140 she demanded all of her daughters had to write her every month about when if they got the period 0.96

02:08:15.240 or not she was a good catholic mother this was this was this woman i mean was she

02:08:22.040 no she was a terrible mother um but she felt she was a good catholic and that was her whole job

02:08:30.480 Anyway, Lana, thank you so much for joining us today for this episode.

02:08:34.100 And if people want to hear more of me and Lana talking with our other friend,

02:08:38.680 Elson Epstein, Vulgar Peace Theater is a podcast we do on Patreon,

02:08:42.380 and it's back up and running after a lengthy hiatus.

02:08:45.460 And we're going to be talking about Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette next month.

02:08:50.440 Did you know who plays Maria Teresa in that movie, Lana?

02:08:53.640 No.

02:08:54.900 It's the singer Marianne Faithful.

02:08:56.940 who you may not know is descended from the Austrian Habsburgs what no I did not know that

02:09:05.080 yeah her mother is like baroness to something something German fancy that'll be very exciting

02:09:11.840 that sounds very Sophia Coppola ever I know so they got like they got like an actual Habsburg 0.99

02:09:18.480 they found one to come in and play her I know and I think physically she's she'll I think

02:09:25.140 what we know about maria theresa it'll be interesting i haven't rewatched it yet but

02:09:28.180 i think it'll be interesting to see how we feel about her portrayal anyway lana thank you so much

02:09:32.580 for this lengthy conversation um a delight as always thank you for letting me explain

02:09:36.900 holy roman empire happy birthday thank you

02:09:40.620 we mentioned in the episode but just to remind everybody that i do have a patreon that you can

02:09:51.080 join if you're a fan of this podcast and you want to get some more content so if you join the

02:09:54.800 patreon for free which is a thing you could do then you just get kind of updates from me about

02:09:59.260 my book that i have coming out rebel of the regency scandal sag f carolina brunswick britain's uncrowned

02:10:04.820 queen just as i get more information about that book i post information there but also just

02:10:09.700 information and news and links and there's a chat you can join and stuff and then if you join for

02:10:13.440 one dollar or more a month you get early ad free access to episodes of this podcast if you want to

02:10:19.180 listen to it without the ad breaks that's the way you can do it for one dollar a month and if you

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02:10:47.800 Marie Antoinette, which I'm really excited to do. And you can listen to that on the Patreon,

02:10:52.560 or if you just want to, you can get a free trial like for seven days, but also if you want to get

02:10:57.160 a year free trial of my Patreon, well, what you can do is pre-order a copy of my book.

02:11:03.580 So it's called Rebel of the Regency, The Scandal Saga of Carolina Brunswick, Britain's Uncrowned

02:11:08.600 Queen. And when you pre-order the book, which means you just go to your local bookstore or

02:11:12.920 your local bookstore's website or like any online website that sells books in Canada and the US

02:11:17.800 and you pre-order it then just like take a screen capture of your receipt or a picture of your

02:11:22.520 receipt and send it to me and then you can choose some treats some rewards I'm offering for people

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02:11:55.920 get information about my book by going to rebeloftheregency.com. There's links there to

02:12:01.440 buy copies as well as a link to to a form to submit your receipt and also I want to say if

02:12:06.700 you are a bookseller librarian book reviewer journalist or anyone with an account on net

02:12:12.240 galley which is a place where you can get advanced copies of books you can now request my book from

02:12:18.740 net galley so uh get on that journalists librarians booksellers and other book reviewing

02:12:25.500 type people like you can be among the first to read the book and that's really exciting as well

02:12:29.800 i hope to have information soon about you know audiobook there will hopefully be one

02:12:35.000 and also about when and where people outside of North America will be able to pre-order the book.

02:12:40.680 So stay tuned for more information about that. Again, you can get all the information about this

02:12:44.100 book at rebeloftheregency.com. I also want to let you know that the first ever Vulgar History

02:12:50.020 live podcast recording is coming up. It's going to be in Halifax, Nova Scotia, my hometown at the

02:12:55.900 Trident Cafe, 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 3rd. There's no need to sign up or register. It's free.

02:13:02.000 you can truly just show up, hang out with my friends and family members who I've made promise

02:13:07.060 that they'll be there. I won't be arriving on a horse like Maria Teresa, but we'll have a good

02:13:12.720 time. Nonetheless, I will be sharing a story there from Canadian history, and I'll be recording it

02:13:17.860 for a later episode that everybody can hear. So if you miss it, don't worry about that. You'll be

02:13:21.500 able to hear that story later. Again, that's going to be a live Vulgar History podcast recording,

02:13:26.380 Halifax, Nova Scotia at the Trident Cafe, 7 p.m. on Wednesday, September 3rd. And finally,

02:13:33.000 we're in the Marie Antoinette era. We've all been working towards this and I am really excited to

02:13:40.140 be at this point to feel like I said in the episode, you know, I finally feel ready to be

02:13:44.660 having this conversation. I feel like I understand it enough that I can tell the stories to you.

02:13:49.220 Next week, we're getting ever closer to Marie Antoinette herself. We're going to be talking

02:13:53.700 about one of her besties with a very special returning guest that a lot of you have been

02:13:59.520 hoping will come back on the podcast and I'm really excited for you to hear that next week

02:14:03.580 but we're getting we're just circling ever closer to the story of Marie Antoinette and I can't wait 0.97

02:14:08.660 to share that story with you next time so until next week keep your pants on and your tits out 0.97

02:14:13.360 Vulgar History is researched scripted and hosted by Anne Foster that's me editor is Christina 1.00

02:14:20.440 Lumagi. Theme music is by The Severn Duo. Transcripts of this podcast are available

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Vulgar History - August 20, 2025

Marie Antoinette's Mother, Empress Maria Theresa

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