Vulgar History - Queen Elizabeth's Lookalike Younger Cousin And How She Stole The Queen's Man

00:00:00.000 hello and welcome to vulgar history my name is ann foster and this is a feminist women's history 0.69

00:00:22.620 comedy podcast and this is the tits out vulgar history festive spectacular by which i mean

00:00:30.660 it's a bonus episode outside of the regular seasons but i can't quit you i can't not provide

00:00:37.720 some content for us all over this christmas season unlike any other and so i was thinking

00:00:44.480 like what could i do as a little festive event and then just like i'm sure all of you also have

00:00:50.220 um in my calendar on my phone i've listed the birth dates and death dates and marriage dates

00:00:55.740 and other important dates in the lives of numerous women from history so i can always see what what's 1.00

00:01:01.280 a date commemorating what and i was like oh mg i know exactly what i can do for the tits out

00:01:06.420 spectacular and that is to present to you the story of latisse knowles who if you see her name

00:01:16.160 written out it looks like her name is lettuce because it's spelled l-e-t-t-i-c-e but in fact

00:01:21.720 it is pronounced letiz and the christmas connection i'm not going to leave you in suspense is that

00:01:27.520 she died on christmas day but she lived and a good long life for her era for ours frankly

00:01:37.320 and it's a i think this is like a nice festive spectacular type episode because her life was

00:01:43.220 also like tits out for sure like that level of this fest is spectacular her life was spectacular

00:01:48.440 she lived it all tits out and also it has a happy-ish ending like again not i guess this 0.96

00:01:57.280 is a spoiler she's not going to be executed i feel like she's not at any time sent to the tower

00:02:01.240 of london she just like did her thing and was amazing and if you look at on my instagram i've

00:02:07.500 put a picture of her and like she could not be more buttoned up so i just want to clarify as well 0.90

00:02:12.520 tits out as a concept a philosophical concept it does not necessarily have to mean like tits out 0.97

00:02:20.080 francis howard your neckline literally exposes your breasts at all times that is how francis 0.98

00:02:26.180 howard expressed her tits out titness latisse knowles like she was like again she could not 1.00

00:02:31.500 be more tits in covered up all the way to the neck and then a big ruffled collar and big sleeves it's 1.00

00:02:36.920 like all you the only flesh you see is her face like not even her neck like not even her ears but 0.98

00:02:42.900 she philosophically lived her life in a tits out way and so I just want to make sure everybody 0.97

00:02:48.600 understands that you don't need to have tits to live in a tits out way it's all a state of mind 0.91

00:02:54.800 so um I also want to before I get into anything because this is the most important part 0.96

00:03:01.340 my references and so latisse knowles the first ever major biography or like any biography of

00:03:10.120 her ever written came out just a few years ago it's by nicola tallis who's one of my favorite

00:03:14.920 history writers her uh she writes about women in history who i find very interesting she has a

00:03:19.200 great biography of lady jane gray as well and she also writes in a very i would say feminist way

00:03:24.440 but also very readable way it's very like you're reading a story that happens to be

00:03:28.600 factual so her book is called elizabeth's rival the tumultuous life of the countess of leicester

00:03:35.340 the romance and conspiracy that threatened queen elizabeth's court that's a book with two colons

00:03:40.240 in it so it's it's a great book and that's where i got all this information from because that's

00:03:45.200 the only biography of latisse that exists frankly and also as an aside so let me just see when this

00:03:53.420 is from um in december 2017 so three years ago i saw on the store like just in the like news stand

00:04:03.160 of like the drugstore a copy of bbc history magazine and it's done up i'll put a picture

00:04:09.160 of this on instagram as well um it's done up it makes me feel like um us weekly or something

00:04:15.260 there's a big picture of latisse and it says elizabeth the first nemesis the woman who stole

00:04:19.960 Robert Dudley from the Virgin Queen and I'm just like what is this gossip magazine slash history

00:04:24.960 and so I got this three years ago read the article which is by Nicola Tullis um sort of to tie in

00:04:31.800 with the book that she wrote and then I got so interested in Latisse that I wrote an essay about

00:04:35.080 her I don't know if she would have been on my radar except for this like exceptionally amazing

00:04:40.400 um magazine cover so I like that that's December as well timely so this is like the third year

00:04:47.900 anniversary of me knowing who this woman is. So her name, Lettice, L-E-T-T-I-C-E. It looks like

00:04:54.500 lettuce with an eye, but again, Lettice pronounced like the eyelash serum. So her last name is

00:05:04.300 Knowles, or it's spelled K-N-O-L-L-Y-S, and I believe it's pronounced Knowles,

00:05:11.300 like the same way as Beyonce Knowles Carter. So her name is Lettice Knowles, although it looks

00:05:17.460 like, and I said it in my head for quite a while, Lettice Nolis. So her unusual name was, why was

00:05:24.840 she called Lettice when everybody around her, as we all know, was all called Catherine. So

00:05:29.660 she's born in 1543 and her name was a tribute to her grandmother, whose name was not Lettice,

00:05:36.080 but Leticia, which is the Latin word for happy, which I like. And I think that sort of like

00:05:44.860 casts her whole life in this she was just like you're gonna love her anyway so latisse she stands

00:05:50.180 out firstly because her name was different from literally everybody else the only other people

00:05:55.460 i've ever encountered in my history reading with the name latisse are her literal descendants who

00:06:01.000 were all named after her so she was also the granddaughter of mary boleyn so that would make

00:06:08.500 her the grand niece of anne boleyn who was already dead by the time she was born this also makes her

00:06:14.320 the first cousin once removed of queen elizabeth the first so mary boleyn and anne boleyn were 0.97

00:06:21.060 sisters they both had affairs well anne was married too but mary boleyn had an affair with

00:06:27.900 king henry the eighth so mary boleyn had a daughter named catherine carrie and there were rumors that

00:06:36.180 catherine carrie was secretly an illegitimate child of king henry the eighth because mary boleyn was

00:06:40.900 maybe sleeping with him around the same time her daughter Catherine was born so officially Catherine

00:06:47.140 Carey was not the child of Henry VIII but officially she might have been so one way or

00:06:53.160 another Latisse is at least related to Elizabeth in the Berlin way but she might have been related

00:06:58.620 to Elizabeth on the Tudor side as well and I mean everybody back then was related in all kinds of

00:07:04.600 different ways but however many ways they were related to each other there was definitely

00:07:09.240 everybody agreed that they looked a lot the same so latisse was born 10 years after elizabeth so

00:07:14.620 she was younger and she also had bright red hair pale skin um and just like a similar like high 0.76

00:07:21.420 cheekbones sort of situation so the thing though is that elizabeth was sort of like

00:07:27.560 handsome looking and latisse was like cute and pretty so she was sort of like a prettier

00:07:35.140 like elizabeth put through sort of a filter to look just like a little cuter maybe because 0.61

00:07:41.380 latisse didn't have quite the onslaught of trauma for the first like 10 years of her life that

00:07:46.780 elizabeth had anyway we know from the previous episodes if you've listened to the whole jane

00:07:51.260 gray scenario season that elizabeth is not a fan of having younger prettier women around and latisse 1.00

00:07:57.900 was not just a younger prettier woman she was a younger prettier relative and kind of a younger 0.97

00:08:05.920 prettier version of Elizabeth she's like Elizabeth 2.0 what's Lutisa's situation so she was the third

00:08:13.740 of 16 children her mother again was Catherine Carey uh Catherine Carey being the daughter of

00:08:20.520 Mary Boleyn Catherine Carey being maybe Henry VIII's illegitimate daughter or maybe the legitimate

00:08:25.900 daughter of Mr. Catherine Carey uh so Latisse though so her parents were Catherine Carey and

00:08:33.800 a totally average courtier named Sir Francis Knowles so if Henry this is just a side tangent

00:08:44.660 so the whole thing is like Henry VIII was oh like I need to have illegitimate son or I need to have

00:08:49.080 legitimate sons etc but meanwhile and then the whole like he had Elizabeth Elizabeth didn't have

00:08:57.300 any children his daughter Mary didn't have any children but meanwhile this like potential

00:09:00.940 illegitimate branch of his family was just having all of the children so Henry had married Mary

00:09:06.440 Boleyn instead of Anne Boleyn maybe there would have been less of a crisis of succession or maybe

00:09:11.940 the problem was with him and that's why he didn't have any children in any case so the Knowles

00:09:18.820 family were protestant which was great as long as henry was the king um but less appealing when

00:09:24.940 mary the first took over and set about uh making england be catholic again so for a while the

00:09:33.160 knollsess so again catherine carey her husband francis and latisse and the other kids the 16

00:09:41.040 kids um for a while they lived in germany with some of their children they returned though after

00:09:47.620 two months after elizabeth took over and protestantism became the religion again we don't

00:09:53.700 actually know actually if latisse was among the children to spend time in germany if she wasn't

00:09:58.440 sent there with her like 15 siblings she probably would have been sent to live in the household of

00:10:03.700 her cousin princess elizabeth and when elizabeth became the queen she honored her knoll's relatives

00:10:12.540 with positions in her household so latisse and her mother katherine were both given roles as

00:10:17.900 high-ranking ladies and waiting katherine became a senior lady of the bedchamber which is you know

00:10:23.540 super important the closer you are to the queen during her like intimate moments the more higher

00:10:29.920 ranking you are because you have to be so trustworthy latisse was made a maid of the

00:10:34.780 privy chamber so she got to help you know with the bathroom situations again a very high

00:10:42.100 ranking position at age 17 latisse got married for spoiler the first time to a man who was 32

00:10:52.080 years old and he was named walter devereau this was i mean i would say definitely but let's go

00:10:59.560 with like almost definitely because who knows for sure one of those marriages between families

00:11:04.520 without consideration for like what what does this 17 year old girl think about it and i mean 0.97

00:11:09.520 what she probably thought about it was like hey this is a great marriage cool whatever but it

00:11:13.620 wasn't like these two people fell passionately in love and got married spoiler that comes later

00:11:18.680 so latisse married walter and then she and he went off to live away from court she only returned to

00:11:26.200 court a few times during these years she was a favorite of queen elizabeth they were cousins

00:11:32.440 once removed um queen elizabeth might have liked her because she reminded her of a young herself

00:11:37.740 because latisse looked a lot like elizabeth um latisse was written about as a legendary beauty

00:11:43.520 in 1565 the spanish ambassador wrote that she was one of the best looking ladies of the court

00:11:50.460 and i feel like it's like an anne boleyn scenario as well in the sense of yes she's very beautiful

00:11:57.160 but i think she's also so charismatic it like elevated her to look to be even more beautiful

00:12:02.880 because of her cool personality so latisse went to visit um elizabeth and she was pregnant with 0.99

00:12:14.340 her first child with her husband walter devereux and apparently at this time she flirted with

00:12:21.080 robert dudley so queen elizabeth's on off long-term toxic boyfriend um so he was probably

00:12:30.300 is trying to make elizabeth jealous so she would marry him which she never did but robert dudley 0.90

00:12:35.120 if you're on the patreon i did a whole podcast about so this asshole robert dudley but basically 0.94

00:12:40.720 latisse is just like gorgeous pregnant young um and robert dudley's flirting with her queen elizabeth 0.56

00:12:45.820 was real mad about it um robert dudley also maybe killed his wife by throwing her down a flight of

00:12:52.780 stairs. Not my favorite person in the world. Um, anyway, when Elizabeth heard that her lookalike

00:13:01.780 cousin had flirted with Robert, she launched into a jealous rage. Um, and so Latisse understandably

00:13:08.780 headed back to hang out with her husband, Walter in their home in the countryside and stayed away 1.00

00:13:13.860 from her cousin slash Royal court for a while because that Elizabeth could hold a grudge as

00:13:19.980 we all know latisse and walter ended up having five children together two of them are daughters

00:13:25.920 called lady penelope and lady dorothy both of whom were very cool and they'll probably be in

00:13:31.600 a podcast again later just also i appreciate that she had a daughter called penelope not a name that

00:13:38.820 one comes across often in the tutor era or at least i haven't 1572 walter latisse's husband

00:13:47.540 was sent by the queen to ireland for like political reasons and he stayed there for two years and it

00:13:55.140 seems like perhaps during this two years latisse took up with robert dudley for real like not just

00:14:01.980 flirting but having a full-on affair when walter was in ireland he stayed in a place called kennel

00:14:08.660 worth castle and latisse came and visit him every now and then but they were like

00:14:13.180 you know long distancing it in 1575 robert dudley held a 19-day festival in honor of the queen

00:14:21.600 at kennelworth castle in ireland so for sure robert was there latisse was there walter was

00:14:28.840 there because that's where he was living the queen was there so they were all in the same

00:14:32.400 place at the same time in a very dramatic uh soap opera like moment it was apparent during

00:14:39.180 this 19-day festival that Walter and Robert did not like each other very much. And this was

00:14:45.400 probably largely because rumor had it. So the two, Latisse had had two of her five children

00:14:51.060 were born while Walter was in Ireland, but they visited each other. So it's not like impossible

00:14:56.340 that Walter fathered them, but there's the rumor that Robert may have fathered one or both of these

00:15:03.200 children. We'll never know for sure, but she did call one of the babies born during this period

00:15:07.860 robert which is the name of the man who is maybe her lover so that feels like maybe significant

00:15:13.640 and then when you know 1576 walter devereux died of dysentery note there was a big dysentery

00:15:23.320 epidemic going around at that time and that's the one correct me if i'm wrong i don't know where

00:15:29.460 you'd correct me but you know shout out whatever dysentery is the one it's like poo based where

00:15:36.380 like if you poo too close to the water you drink you get dysentery and dysentery is just like

00:15:41.200 awful diarrhea and you die so there was a big dysentery moment happening so it on the one hand

00:15:50.780 it wasn't super weird that walter died of it at that time because lots of people were getting it

00:15:54.140 dying of it but also some people found it convenient the way the people standing in the

00:15:59.960 way of robert dudley's love life kept falling down stairs or dying of dysentery with such useful

00:16:04.660 timing so remember the whole thing that robert dudley's first wife amy robsart died after falling

00:16:11.440 down a very short flight of stairs and it's like did he kill her did she kill herself

00:16:15.580 this whole thing um a lot of people assumed that robert had killed his wife so he could marry queen 0.96

00:16:22.620 elizabeth and queen elizabeth is like well i'm not gonna marry you now you're a wife killer and

00:16:25.840 it all didn't work out oh no right here walter died did robert dudley kill him i think so but 0.86

00:16:31.980 based on nothing but just a gut instinct that robert dudley is that kind of guy

00:16:35.860 so coincidentally a woman named alice draycott was at the same party as walter and she had shared

00:16:44.820 the same cup as him not sure why they're sharing cups she also died of dysentery or the same

00:16:50.600 symptoms as well so was the cup poisoned was there dysentery in the cup i don't know

00:16:55.760 so once again everyone's just kind of like this robert dudley guy are we looking at a serial

00:17:00.880 killer what's the deal so he's put under investigation again for being a murder again

00:17:06.520 and was again found not guilty but i mean the fact that the queen was his toxic on off long term

00:17:14.480 girlfriend you know was he gonna ever be found guilty of murder when everyone knew the queen

00:17:20.200 left him i don't know so the sort of practice at this time was that so latiz was now a widow

00:17:28.840 right hot young widow and the sort of practice at this time was that a widow should wait

00:17:33.200 at least two years to get married after their husband's death just to show you were like

00:17:38.560 mourning him properly and it was just sort of like that was polite and two years to the day

00:17:44.560 that walter died of quote-unquote dysentery latisse and robert dudley got secret sexy married

00:17:52.080 so why why did these two get married it was not for money reasons because there's every reason

00:18:02.740 to not get married so like it had to have been love slash sex slash ambition like they both

00:18:10.160 really wanted this this was not organized by other people for them so perhaps robert dudley

00:18:15.520 was like well i can't be with elizabeth so i'll just marry her 10 years younger doppelganger

00:18:19.980 and who was also very rich latisse 33 years old at this point gorgeous the widow of a fairly

00:18:27.160 prominent guy who left her some money oh wait no sorry walter hadn't left her quite as much money

00:18:33.100 as she needed for her and her children to live comfortably including that he didn't leave them

00:18:38.320 a house to live in so latisse and her children were just sort of like couch surfing staying for

00:18:42.960 a while in her father's house sometimes with friends just sort of wandering around which was 1.00

00:18:46.560 a shitty situation that happened a lot to widowed women because at the time women could only own 0.68

00:18:51.480 property if they inherited it from their spouse or their father as latisse had so many siblings

00:18:56.800 remember she's the third of 16 her family couldn't really give her anything and walter

00:19:02.460 devereux hadn't left her much either potentially because he was mad at her for having the affair 0.97

00:19:06.440 with robert dudley anyway so latisse this is like backstory latisse was not the sort of woman to

00:19:15.520 just like sit back and be like well i guess we're couch surfing forever i have no money the end 0.62

00:19:19.300 she went to court to plead with her with walter's executors to get more of his estate arguing that 0.73

00:19:26.480 it was her children's best interests not for her at all and which it was um after seven months of

00:19:32.000 negotiations she was granted more funds from his estate which was great except for walter had died

00:19:37.220 with substantial debts to the crown aka the queen so latisse went to her cousin and former

00:19:46.220 good friend queen elizabeth to request the walter's debts be forgiven elizabeth was like yeah

00:19:51.300 no way you flirting with robert deadly person at this point we're like flashing back latisse and

00:19:57.840 robert aren't actually married this is like how they came to be married so now latisse by now 34

00:20:03.340 she's been in the courts like wrangling with her dead husband's estate for a year gorgeous wildly 1.00

00:20:09.480 fabulous widowed mother of four younger lookalike of a gorgeous queen and somewhat in need of a

00:20:14.820 house and some money so she's just looking around like where what can i do and here we have robert

00:20:19.660 dudley 46 years old um dirtbag lifelong unrequited lover of queen elizabeth possible multiple

00:20:27.480 murderer person who had flirted scandalously with latisse a few years back and was potentially

00:20:33.200 the father of some of her children so both of them for maybe for various reasons they decided

00:20:39.860 to get married she needed basically a husband just so she could have like a house and he i don't know

00:20:46.780 he liked her i don't know anyway i i guess like in the absence of any obvious other reason it

00:20:55.380 must have been love so it seems like you know like this is a very rare motivation not in this

00:21:01.060 podcast because we're always talking with the secret sexy marriages of hot young people in

00:21:05.020 love but the thing is that for these two getting married was actually an incredibly terrible

00:21:10.380 decision so and what other reason is there for terrible decision other than love because why

00:21:17.840 is it a terrible decision i mean this this stop me if you've heard this before so anybody as rich

00:21:23.980 as them especially somebody related to elizabeth or who she was in love with had to get the queen's

00:21:28.580 permission to get married letiz and robert had already witnessed how much elizabeth freaked out

00:21:32.880 at the rumors that these two had been flirting behind her back and at this point i don't know

00:21:38.440 i don't have the the timeline in front of me but i feel like the gray sister situations have already

00:21:43.640 happened here with mary and katherine gray so they just know like getting married when you're

00:21:48.540 a relative of the queen without permission does not tend to go over well anyway they knew that

00:21:53.960 they couldn't ask for permission so they had to get secret sexy married so exactly two years after

00:21:59.340 walter died of quote dysentery latisse knowles and robert dudley were married in a secret ceremony

00:22:05.280 september 21st 1578 this was not a last minute like spontaneous thing even just getting the

00:22:12.080 guests in town and preparations probably would have taken like a year so during which time

00:22:17.160 everybody kept it secret secret sexy wedding planning elizabeth had zero idea there were only

00:22:23.560 six guests at the wedding all of them family members even after the marriage everybody 1.00

00:22:28.320 continued to keep it a secret because obviously elizabeth would lose her mind when she found out

00:22:33.680 and maybe they thought they could hide the news from her forever not sure but as we know this was

00:22:39.460 elizabethan england there were spies and courtiers everywhere spilling secrets so it took about two

00:22:44.860 months later which frankly is better than either the gray sisters managed uh the queen found out

00:22:51.060 her favorite niece had married her favorite boyfriend and lost her mind so elizabeth 0.92

00:22:56.280 apparently boxed latisse in the ears like hit her punched her like physically assaulted her 1.00

00:23:02.440 and banished latisse from court permanently and refused to accept the marriage even existed like

00:23:07.900 when you were around her you had to pretend robert dudley wasn't even married robert well

00:23:13.200 just like nowadays elizabeth blamed the women but found the man mostly blameless

00:23:17.460 like she was mad and felt betrayed by robert getting secretly married to her lookalike younger

00:23:23.080 cousin and so elizabeth initially banished robert from court too but she couldn't stay mad and

00:23:28.600 eventually led robert back but only him not latisse so robert got to hang out at court all the time

00:23:34.080 still being elizabeth's favorite but he had to pretend like he wasn't married and latisse was

00:23:39.040 stuck at home by herself but latisse was like you know what i'm gonna make this work for me

00:23:44.760 i'm latisse knolls let's just do this so she lived mostly with her knolls relatives in the

00:23:50.460 countryside until 1583 she was like elizabeth must surely have calmed down by now let me see

00:23:58.660 they got married in 78 so five years five years after their secret marriage latisse was like okay

00:24:05.220 can we all just move forward um so latisse decided to move into robert's family home

00:24:10.520 but in fact elizabeth was not any calmer about any of this because she'd been doing a very good

00:24:15.960 job of pretending robert and latisse hadn't gotten married and this house moving reminded her about

00:24:20.920 this thing she's trying to pretend wasn't happening but there wasn't anything she could

00:24:24.420 do she'd banished latisse from court not from england and there's no way to stop her cousin

00:24:29.120 from living with her husband latisse and robert had one child together a boy named robert there's

00:24:38.200 a lot of Roberts in this story just I don't even know make it a drinking game have a some eggnog

00:24:44.900 every time I say Robert but only if it's a different Robert this is the third Robert because

00:24:49.400 there was Latisse Latisse's son Robert Devereaux there's Robert Dudley himself I know this is like

00:24:56.120 Robert Dudley Jr basically although this Robert Dudley Jr died age three from old-timey reasons

00:25:04.860 so as a clue to robert's priorities like yes when he was with elizabeth he had to pretend he wasn't

00:25:10.400 married but he did manage to take some time away from being elizabeth's boy toy to be with latisse

00:25:15.680 during the the grief of losing their son so elizabeth wouldn't let him go but robert was

00:25:23.620 seemingly loyal and devoted to latisse as well he should be she deserves complete adulation so

00:25:32.700 the queen put robert dudley in charge of a number of military campaigns that he was not at all

00:25:39.500 qualified to lead because she loved him and it's very much like a trump putting jared kushner in

00:25:45.180 charge of stuff situation where you're just like this person isn't good at stuff but i like him so

00:25:50.240 let's put him in charge of stuff elizabeth also had the secondary motivation of potentially

00:25:54.820 wanting to separate robert from latisse in a series of events i don't totally understand but

00:26:00.080 to summarize here robert wound up being declared the governor general of the netherlands you know

00:26:05.920 how that happens and a rumor started spreading that latisse was planning to head over to the

00:26:10.160 netherlands with an entourage and set up sort of like a fake royal court there which she would act

00:26:14.900 as like fakey queen which was not true at all but elizabeth thought it was because she was ready to

00:26:19.860 believe the worst of latisse and really she would take any excuse to just like scream about how much

00:26:24.180 she hated latisse what was really going on was that robert was planning to hand over authority

00:26:29.480 to latisse to look after his affairs in england while he was away and he only kept up the netherlands

00:26:34.460 job for two years and then he came back to england and then he suddenly died from malaria probably

00:26:41.580 he and latisse had been in the middle of a trip between their different houses at this time so

00:26:46.420 she was with him when he died so remember the thing about oh sorry r.i.p robert edley

00:26:51.740 so remember the thing about widows have to wait two years to get married again

00:26:56.640 and also remember how when women were widowed they sometimes didn't have any money or a place 0.91

00:27:01.400 to live so basically latisse didn't even wait two years this time she got married just six months

00:27:06.960 after robert's death the reasons for this one are pretty much easier to figure out robert dudley had

00:27:12.620 died and left her with surprise a bunch of debt this is the shittiest thing like i've come across

00:27:19.060 this in other stories too where like men are in charge of all the money women can have their own 0.75

00:27:22.640 money, but the men are bad with money and leave the wives with debt. These, these assholes. So 1.00

00:27:28.280 Latisse's new husband was named Christopher Blount and he was able to help her pay off the

00:27:35.520 debts. Honestly, at this point, Latisse, 46 years old, really just wanted to be able to like live

00:27:40.660 in one house and not have to couch surf all the time, not have debts and just like relax, live

00:27:45.460 her life. Christopher was about 10 years younger than her and he'd been a soldier alongside Robert

00:27:51.260 deadly and also a friend of robert deadly so i guess they knew each other because latice had

00:27:56.320 ignored the whole wait two years thing some people thought this was very scandalous of her to do to 0.99

00:28:01.860 marry this younger man after not waiting two years but latice was just like fuck off i'm latice 0.99

00:28:06.520 knolls i'm 46 years old i do what i want tits out not literally so at this point latice had been 0.99

00:28:14.100 banished from court for so long she didn't even care anymore which must have destroyed elizabeth

00:28:19.540 Elizabeth like banished Latisse from court and Latisse was like cool didn't want to be there

00:28:23.500 anyway like it didn't bother her I admire that so there's no point of her even returning to London

00:28:29.700 so she left the house she shared with Robert Dudley and moved to a new home in the countryside

00:28:33.600 with her new husband Christopher Blount it is now 1597 which is what almost 20 years after her

00:28:44.060 marriage to Robert Dudley had caused her to be banished and Elizabeth was now like maybe I'm

00:28:49.480 open to reconciliation so she spread the word through like whisper networks and so latisse

00:28:53.580 headed back to london for the first time in what 20 years and she was granted a short meeting with

00:28:59.800 elizabeth so at this point latisse 46 elizabeth 56 and so they met you know older wiser maybe

00:29:10.680 their red hair turning a little blonde and but all that happened at this meeting was latisse kissed

00:29:17.140 elizabeth and elizabeth kissed her but latisse was still banished and elizabeth didn't forgive

00:29:21.400 her so like why did she i don't know the meeting was just maybe some sort of like power play

00:29:25.820 i imagine this meeting had a lot of meaningful glances maybe some like foreboding sipping of 1.00

00:29:33.140 beverages while looking at each other and i mean given the reputation both women and how jealous 1.00

00:29:38.700 they were of each other probably some like amazing outfits so the reason that latisse got this meeting 1.00

00:29:43.580 with elizabeth like why right this is a weird thing was likely due to the intervention of her

00:29:48.840 son robert devereau so latisse's first son who is maybe secretly robert deadly son

00:29:55.900 robert devereau so this is the one so when walter devereau died remember he left her with not a lot

00:30:06.480 of money and then latisse went to fight to be like i don't need money my kids need money like

00:30:10.220 robert devereau was one of those kids robert devereau had grown up to become queen elizabeth's

00:30:15.780 new favorite so with robert deadly dead queen elizabeth needed a new robert around and so she

00:30:21.860 like she chose robert devereau robert deadly's stepson there's so much just weird stuff going

00:30:26.620 on with like elizabeth can be with robert so now she's with his stepson and then robert couldn't

00:30:31.100 be with elizabeth so then he went with her cousin like just a lot of look-alike weirdness going on

00:30:36.180 anyway so robert devereau not unlike his stuff with robert dudley actually i feel like perhaps

00:30:46.340 even worse than robert dudley like he just sucked he's awful literally awful so but the same thing

00:30:55.340 elizabeth sent him off to lead military campaigns and he just he literally robert devereau wandered 0.68

00:31:00.220 off when he got bored on a military campaign he's just like i'm tired of this i'm gonna go like

00:31:04.380 drink ale in the bar or whatever like at least Robert Dudley like didn't do that like anyway

00:31:12.140 Robert Devereaux literally the worst so he wandered off of a command in Ireland randomly

00:31:20.460 and then got put in jail for being absent without leave like like when I say he literally wandered

00:31:25.080 off I'm not using the word literally figuratively like he just like left he just like peaced out

00:31:29.820 so latisse his mom did her best to plead with elizabeth to forgive him including sending

00:31:35.420 elizabeth a gift of a new gown which you know good try elizabeth did like fashion a lot but

00:31:42.040 elizabeth neither accepted nor refused the gown which was like the worst thing you know in terms 1.00

00:31:47.940 of rudeness and apparently latisse trying to intercede made elizabeth even more mad about

00:31:53.340 the whole thing and then this whole thing happened where robert devereau conspired with latisse's

00:31:58.940 husband christopher blount and some other things to do a thing called essex rebellion which wound

00:32:05.500 up with both of them being put on trial and then executed for treason so robert devereau

00:32:10.840 literally the worst um and now he's dead so um he's executed latisse's husband was executed

00:32:20.160 because they both tried to like turn on queen elizabeth like nice try god it's like 0.98

00:32:24.620 so many cool women in these stories and so many just shitty sons and it's this shitty society 0.98

00:32:30.180 where it's like well the sons are in charge of everything and men are more important than women 0.96

00:32:33.600 where it's like but women are so much smarter anyway so latisse remained in london during the 1.00

00:32:39.660 whole trial um and but you know she lost her son as well as her husband a man who she referred to 0.59

00:32:45.920 as her best friend so now i mean the story keeps going this is the thing like how can there be

00:32:52.820 more the story keeps going so like how much more wildly interesting stuff can happen in one woman's

00:32:57.900 life like quite a bit more so the thing is that before robert dudley married latisse so he's first

00:33:05.840 married to amy robsart later he married latisse but like between those two he'd had a son with

00:33:12.100 a woman named douglas sheffield who i stan because douglas is a cool name for a woman now frankly

00:33:20.280 back then a woman named douglas like i'm reading a story right now where the women are douglas

00:33:25.680 and latisse after all these katharines it's thrilling for me douglas sheffield love her

00:33:32.060 so robert dudley had a child with douglas sheffield um who is named guess what robert

00:33:38.420 that's our fourth fourth robert in the story robert dudley just keeps having sons calling

00:33:44.640 them all Robert get over yourself honestly so Robert Dudley Jr.'s mother Douglas later in life

00:33:51.480 claimed that she'd actually been married to Robert Dudley so Robert Dudley Jr. was not illegitimate

00:33:56.420 and actually legitimate but the thing is that Douglas had also been married to someone else

00:34:01.280 at the same time so like what what Douglas I admire her she was like doing what she could

00:34:08.320 but it truly sounds like she was not actually married to Robert Dudley and she was just trying

00:34:12.060 get some money, which I respect. Got to respect a scammer. And so Robert Dudley Jr. took Latice

00:34:18.380 to court saying that he, Robert Dudley Jr., should have inherited Robert Dudley's estate,

00:34:23.480 not Latice. So his whole claim was based on the fact that his parents were secretly married,

00:34:29.260 meaning that Robert Dudley's marriage to Latice was not legitimate because of bigamy. But again,

00:34:36.560 Douglas was already married to someone else when she said she married Robert Dudley.

00:34:40.240 and all that latisse had inherited from robert deadly was a bunch of debt so like what was

00:34:46.060 robert deadly jr even doing like get it together anyway latisse finally won this case and like at

00:34:53.760 last she can go two weeks without being in court for some like executor based thing but guess what

00:34:58.340 not so fast she had to go to court again because now it looked like her third husband christopher

00:35:03.660 blount had maybe messed her around when he claimed to be paying off robert deadly's debts 0.99

00:35:07.300 and so now latisse owed even more money to the crown like this fucking debt oh my god and it's 1.00

00:35:12.900 all just from her stupid god-awful husbands like can she live so robert dudley and his debts took 1.00

00:35:19.060 up far too much of this poor woman's life anyway eventually latisse won the case against robert 0.99

00:35:25.320 dudley jr um in the midst of all this latest debt related litigation elizabeth the first

00:35:32.700 died and her successor james the first was like okay what's going on latisse seems like really

00:35:40.720 cool don't know why elizabeth hated her so much why don't i james the first just cancel all the

00:35:45.720 debts latisse owes to the english crown thank you thank you james the first finally latisse got to

00:35:53.660 have some peace and quiet like literally finally so she's by all accounts a loving mother to her

00:36:00.360 children she's especially close to her daughters Penelope and Dorothy again both of whom very cool

00:36:05.920 people Muses they did a lot of cool stuff she had 18 grandchildren of whom she was closest with

00:36:14.120 the son of Robert Devereaux who is also named Robert is that five or six Robert Dudley

00:36:21.820 robert ridley jr robert devereau other oh my god i don't even know anyway so grandson robert

00:36:30.980 like everyone's just called robert um robert devereau jr lived much of his life with latisse

00:36:38.340 his grandma at her country estate latisse herself remained in quote excellent health up until she

00:36:44.760 was about 90 years old and she was said to walk a mile a day frankly if you are 90 years old and

00:36:52.160 you're walking a mile a day like respect if you're doing that and it's like 1633 even more respect

00:37:00.040 so latisse knowles passed away christmas day 1634 at the age of 91 following a quick illness

00:37:07.980 so she was buried as per her request next to robert dudley in the beauchamp oh god how do

00:37:15.980 you say it beecham in the beecham chapel of collegiate church of saint mary warwick so

00:37:21.620 she's married buried next to her second husband robert dudley opposite their shared tomb is the

00:37:28.040 burial place of their son the first robert dudley jr who died age three so latisse was the countess

00:37:36.920 of Essex via her marriage to Walter Devereaux and then the Countess of Lester via her marriage to

00:37:42.180 Robert Dudley and again to learn more about all the details because there's like this is quite a

00:37:48.300 saga I know so Nicola Tullis's book I super recommend Elizabeth's rival and it's been so

00:37:56.200 long since I've done this time to go on these scandalous scales so Latisse Knowles in terms

00:38:02.040 of scandalousness interesting so she was surrounded by people who were doing scandalous 1.00

00:38:08.220 things like no one ever thought did she poison her husband Walter Devereaux it was like did

00:38:12.560 Robert Dudley do that to marry her she flirted with Robert Dudley Elizabeth blamed her but I 0.98

00:38:18.580 don't think a lot of the scandal landed on her at the same time she was banned from court forever 0.97

00:38:23.200 for a secret sexy marriage which is one of the most scandalous things you could do

00:38:27.120 i'm gonna give her a seven for scandalousness scheminess i appreciate her scheminess so firstly 0.51

00:38:37.840 just like the whole secret sexy wedding planning and elizabeth didn't find out about it the wedding

00:38:43.040 like planning a wedding for a year to elizabeth's favorite and the fact that the wedding was kept 1.00

00:38:47.860 a secret for two months speaks to some excellent scheminess and also just the way that she um 0.97

00:38:54.240 bartered like the way that she went all her court stuff and it seems like she won every court case 0.99

00:38:58.840 like she's very persuasive clearly i think i'm gonna give her a seven for scheminess as well 0.97

00:39:06.020 significance i think is where she might lose some points because she is significant

00:39:10.220 to my heart when i found this issue of bbc history extra magazine and i was like what

00:39:16.960 these noodles who's that like it truly sent me down a whole a whole tunnel of just learning 0.90

00:39:22.680 about all these cool tutor women these cool boleyn women significant to me high significance to like 1.00

00:39:28.800 global world history not so much maybe like the fact that robert dudley married her meant that

00:39:36.440 elizabeth couldn't marry him but like robert dudley could have married anyone i'm gonna give her

00:39:43.460 a six for significance because i love her her daughters penelope and dorothy did very cool

00:39:50.080 stuff and then her son robert devereau like she was surrounded by a lot of significant stuff but

00:39:55.840 she herself was not doing significant stuff but tertiarily vicariously i'll give her a six

00:40:01.520 the sexism bonus for her is interesting because you know everyone gets at least a five always 1.00

00:40:08.560 because that's just the bullshit you put up with from the patriarchy but latisse herself like she

00:40:14.140 was married at age 17 to a 32 year old man which is i was just kind of like what life was like 0.98

00:40:20.420 the sexism she's kind of faced sexism from elizabeth who blamed her for robert dudley 0.87

00:40:26.440 marrying her where it was like equally his fault which is some bullshit but like she found ways to 0.96

00:40:31.620 thrive and that was partially because she was like i don't know like she was a higher class 0.98

00:40:36.780 woman with all these good connections but we've seen horrible things happen to women like that 1.00

00:40:41.240 as well so well that's again like her scheminess her cleverness i don't think sexism was a major 1.00

00:40:46.000 oh my god what am i even talking about i was about to say sexism wasn't a major effect on her life 1.00

00:40:51.200 but yeah it was because she kept inheriting all this bullshit debt from all of her shitty husbands 1.00

00:40:55.880 and then she didn't have a house to live in so she had to go to court all the time i'm gonna give her 0.98

00:41:01.980 an eight for sexism so let's see where this lands her so that's 28 all together and why does that

00:41:10.660 put her on the full scale of things this is quite good actually frankly um she's in very good

00:41:18.160 company with a 28 on the scandalous scale cleopatra has a 28 lucy hay the spy has a 28

00:41:26.440 um she's just below catherine lady catherine gray had a 29 and i think that's fair in terms of like

00:41:32.420 the scandalous scale like catherine gray had more she specifically did more scandalous things i would 1.00

00:41:40.100 say jail babies etc so this is good uncomfortable with latisse's placement here she's above 0.81

00:41:47.140 she's above francis gray she's above yeah towards the top but sort of like the middle of the top

00:41:53.500 i feel okay about this like she's cool i love her to pieces but to get to the top you need to have

00:41:58.520 that significance that's where joanna of naples agrippina like they're like 30 plus and that's

00:42:04.740 that's how you get those sorts of scores so that was our festive spectacular and again if you're

00:42:11.020 like wait what was the connection to festivities literally at all was that latisse died on christmas

00:42:17.700 day so that's a connection and also her name means happy and happy holidays so my regular reminders

00:42:27.300 of everything so i've just updated the recommended books list on bookshop.org

00:42:34.020 so if you go to the link is in the show notes but if you go to my list on bookshop.org there's a list

00:42:39.200 there of all the books that i recommend on this podcast including this one by nicola tallis the

00:42:44.020 biography of latisse knowles super interesting it's really interesting in that rosencrantz and

00:42:49.020 gildenstern way to like learn about the reign of elizabeth and that time period through the eyes of

00:42:54.480 somebody who is sort of like in it but not really in it and also if you got some sort of like book

00:43:00.940 gift card for festive celebration reasons um and you're like but i want to get a cool history book

00:43:08.540 like you can look at my recommends there there is my teespring shop as per ever teespring.com 0.94

00:43:15.300 slash stores slash vulgar history to get all of your tits out merch if you want to support this

00:43:21.700 little podcast slash me and also there's the extra bonus episodes so if you go to patreon.com 0.97

00:43:27.820 slash ann foster writer and if you pledge there then you get access to uh every month i'm doing

00:43:34.300 at least one bonus podcast there a lot of them are in the so this asshole series talking about 0.89

00:43:39.340 shitty men who i'm like to scream about i've done one about robert dudley i feel like i might want

00:43:45.140 to do one about robert devereau who was like for sure i am gonna do one about robert devereau

00:43:50.160 eventually anyway that's on the patreon um i just just posted also for december there a thing about

00:43:57.200 oliver cromwell and how he canceled christmas did he cancel mince pies apparently that's like a big

00:44:04.360 myth in the uk i had not heard of it i mean spoiler he did not forbid mince pies anyway

00:44:11.440 um i have a website which is ann foster writer.com which is where i put all my history writing essays

00:44:18.160 and you can follow me on social media instagram vulgar history pod twitter vulgar history and

00:44:25.280 you know what this is the last episode of this year there's going to be a new season coming out

00:44:30.580 next year there will be a 2021 season i am working on it it'll be maybe january i'm gonna say

00:44:37.440 february but we'll see that's coming up and until then despite the fact that a vaccine is in

00:44:44.360 existence. I think you all know that you need to keep your masks on, your tits out, and I'll talk 0.98

00:44:51.300 to you all next time. 0.99

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Vulgar History - December 23, 2020

Queen Elizabeth's Lookalike Younger Cousin And How She Stole The Queen's Man

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