Vulgar History - Regency Era Spy Grace Dalrymple Elliott

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast. My name is 0.73

00:00:16.200 Anne Foster and we are in our Regency era, still ongoing. This season on the podcast

00:00:21.780 we're talking about what was happening in England in the early 1800s, aka the time period

00:00:27.220 that Bridgerton takes place, and also the time period featured in my book, Rebel of the Regency,

00:00:32.660 the scandalous saga of Carolina Brunswick, Britain's Uncrowned Queen, available in bookstores

00:00:37.240 now everywhere. And today's topic, we're going to be talking about Grace Dalrymple Elliott,

00:00:43.340 who was born in Scotland, and she spent some time in the French Revolution, like in Paris.

00:00:49.520 And then she returned to England to be there for the Regency era. There's so much to her story,

00:00:54.320 and I'm really excited to have a guest join me for this episode because it overlaps with part

00:00:59.620 of what he's doing in his podcast. It's Gavin Whitehead from the Art of Crime podcast,

00:01:04.620 who we've had on the podcast a few other times before. The episode's about Charlotte Corday.

00:01:09.120 We also talked about Madame Tussauds, and this is another iconic crime, or I guess sort of,

00:01:14.400 is being a spy a crime? I don't know, just sort of like intrigue-based saga. I'm so happy to have

00:01:19.900 Gavin here again. So he is, as I said, from the Art of Crime podcast. He has a new podcast series

00:01:24.840 that's just dropping this week. I think that is called Raven that I know you're going to love

00:01:29.440 as well. Anyway, I do want to say also in terms of my book being published, I've been doing a

00:01:34.960 couple of events and I have a few more coming up and I'll talk more about that at the end of the

00:01:39.100 episode. So this is your tantalizing cliffhanger. So make sure you stay tuned after the episode for

00:01:43.760 a bit more detail about where I'll be and when and how we can all meet up. But in the meantime,

00:01:48.340 Here's me and Gavin talking about the iconic Grace Dalrymple Elliott, a.k.a. Dally the Tall.

00:02:00.120 Okay, so I'm joined by a returning guest. I think, depending on how you count episodes, this is either his third or fourth appearance on Vulgar History. It's Gavin Whitehead from the Art of Crime podcast. Gavin, welcome.

00:02:13.940 And thank you so much for having me back.

00:02:16.080 I'm delighted to make either my third or fourth appearance today.

00:02:19.920 Well, it's because you, like you were on, we did Madame Tussauds.

00:02:22.920 We did Charlotte Corday.

00:02:25.480 And then we talked about Princess Caribou, quote unquote,

00:02:29.460 but that was like on your podcast.

00:02:31.120 But then I played it on my podcast also.

00:02:34.060 It's a crossover moment.

00:02:36.260 It's easy to lose count when you're looking at crossovers.

00:02:39.740 But also when we're having such a nice time,

00:02:41.560 I was like, wow, we've recorded so much.

00:02:42.920 And I will just say, like listeners out there are excited.

00:02:45.880 Like you're, whenever I ask them, like, which guest should we have back?

00:02:48.780 Everyone, your name always comes up.

00:02:50.480 Like you're a beloved returning guest.

00:02:52.740 Oh my gosh.

00:02:53.920 Don't flatter me right at the beginning.

00:02:57.040 Well, and then it turns out, so I don't even remember how we figured out that we were both

00:03:00.520 researching the same person at the same time, but here we are.

00:03:03.800 And so it just made sense to bring you on for this episode, which is about Grace Delrymple

00:03:07.640 Elliott, who was a notable figure during the French Revolution, but then she lived on into

00:03:12.460 the Regency era, which is why I'm able to still count her in my Regency era season.

00:03:18.100 So Grace Delrymple Elliott. So she, most of almost everything that we know about her,

00:03:23.440 she wrote a memoir. We love a memoir writing courtesan on this podcast.

00:03:29.800 And so she wrote a memoir about her time in the French revolution. And that's where a lot of

00:03:33.820 people got a lot of information about the French revolution from. Now, like anyone writing a book,

00:03:38.840 I myself just wrote a book, Rebel of the Regency.

00:03:41.380 You should buy it.

00:03:43.100 Casual, casual mention.

00:03:44.900 Love it. 0.99

00:03:46.300 But, you know, she needs to make it juicy. 1.00

00:03:48.640 She needs to make it sell.

00:03:49.880 I've pre-ordered my audio book.

00:03:51.900 I want everyone to know that.

00:03:53.700 So what's your, come on, people, come on.

00:03:56.960 It is available as an audio book.

00:03:58.560 That's a great point, Graven.

00:03:59.700 Thank you, everybody.

00:04:00.520 A book, an e-book, an audio book.

00:04:03.700 Grace Diller and Elliot, her book,

00:04:05.200 it was published posthumously so not during her life but she wrote it's kind of like when you and

00:04:13.080 i did the episode about madame tussaud and madame tussaud was where it's like did this really happen

00:04:17.740 to you or did you just know people like you just want to throw some famous names in so like grace

00:04:22.000 was certainly involved with some famous names um but you know her her story is perhaps exaggerated

00:04:29.980 at points but we don't hate that we don't mind that she's just like making a good saga for us

00:04:34.800 all exactly she certainly she was in paris during the french revolution and honestly

00:04:39.720 who's going to remember accurately exactly what happened right in a time of widespread

00:04:46.280 you know blood running down the streets like a river like you know you're not going to be like

00:04:50.980 oh actually that happened two weeks later so where were we yeah so but gavin can you just

00:04:57.380 let everyone know your feelings about grace in general just so they know where we're both coming

00:05:01.040 from? So I kind of have a soft spot for Grace Elliott. For reasons that we'll discuss later on,

00:05:09.360 I'm sure, we are not on the same end of the political spectrum. In fact, we would probably

00:05:14.380 vehemently disagree on some points, but Grace shows such insane courage and self-possession

00:05:23.700 in the course of the narrative that we are about to unfold for you that I cannot help but feel

00:05:29.580 a certain respect for her almost even in awe in some of the more intense situations

00:05:35.500 i think that she's you know in terms of like where does she land on the political spectrum

00:05:41.280 and whatever it's like as we tell her story it makes sense where why she feels i mean just to

00:05:47.920 be honest like in the french revolution she's on the side of the royal family she's not on the side

00:05:52.180 of the market ladies on the side of you know the people in the street the mob because that's how

00:05:58.460 she experienced it and like of course she's on the side of the people who are her friends who 1.00

00:06:02.260 are paying for her lifestyle like why why exactly i mean her entire livelihood depends on financial 0.97

00:06:08.760 support from the royal family right and she's also she also knows them personally and she would

00:06:14.980 prefer not to see her friends like decapitated in public for example so and if you're just like 0.72

00:06:20.520 hanging out at the opera with your friends or whatever and then like a bunch of market ladies

00:06:24.440 come in and start like you're just trying to have a great time at the opera you know why would you

00:06:29.720 side with those people who are ruining your good time annoying it's like get off your phone i'm at

00:06:35.040 the opera yeah get it together so grace dell and bill elliott so she wrote a memoir journal of my

00:06:42.500 life during the french revolution posthumously published in 1859 there is one um and honestly

00:06:48.640 like if you want to read about her life like read her memoir but if you want to read a more

00:06:53.480 contemporary book i write a book called an infamous mistress by sarah murden and joanne

00:06:58.020 major and there's like a pretty healthy wikipedia as well just to get some information about her but

00:07:03.960 just enough for me to know that i was like this is this is a saga i need to tell on this podcast

00:07:08.160 so she is a scottish person um shout out to all the scottish people listening and she was born

00:07:15.820 with a scottish name which was griselle which griselle it's like some of you hear the name

00:07:23.260 like Griselda. It's like the same initial name. So Griselda, I had not come across this, but I

00:07:29.260 guess it's a very common Scottish name in olden times. So she's born Griselda Dalrymple. Her

00:07:34.160 mother also called Griselda. And then when she got to England, Grace is basically the English

00:07:39.600 version of Griselda. So she's just like, let's just play down the Scottish part and let's fit

00:07:44.400 in a bit better. Scottish people, not beloved in England at the time. Anyway, so she was the

00:07:49.220 youngest daughter of Grisel Brown and Hugh Dalrymple. And then her parents separated

00:07:54.420 around the time she was born. So just, you know, not, you get into a lot of the family story in

00:08:01.380 this book, an infamous mistress, but basically all you need to know is like, she was a little

00:08:05.000 kid. She had a sister called Janet, uh, who changed her name to Jacinta to be, everyone's

00:08:12.640 just kind of like slightly changing the name. I don't hate it. Um, anyway, so her parents

00:08:17.040 separated and she was raised mostly by her mother and her mother's parents. And then eventually she

00:08:23.360 was educated in a French convent. So this is like, her father was a lawyer. Like this is a pretty

00:08:28.380 well-off family. She's not born into poverty at all. She's educated in a French convent and

00:08:34.780 through the rest of her life, she is constantly going back and forth between France and Great

00:08:39.620 Britain, like in a real casual way, I would say. She's just, she's like, she's bouncing back and

00:08:46.400 forth like someone would casually like a rich person just be i'm just spending the weekend in

00:08:50.420 in la and i'm going to new york and back and forth like what okay like but she's on ships anyway 0.99

00:08:57.680 she was and she's introduced into society you know if we picture like a bridgerton type moment 0.80

00:09:06.440 it's like oh here's grace and she's like tall and striking um how would you describe her appearance

00:09:14.580 Gavin like there's a couple portraits of her stunningly beautiful I think just kind of an

00:09:20.960 objective way right like you know a gorgeous person when you see one in the street and that 0.95

00:09:26.740 was grace um honey colored hair um kind of pale skin fair skin you would say slender striking 0.99

00:09:36.380 kind of ticking a lot of the boxes for conventional beauty you might say and she really what noticed

00:09:43.580 what I what jumps up to me looking at her various portraits is she really likes a strong eyebrow

00:09:48.700 she's got like a real dark eyebrow yeah it's an eyebrow with attitude yeah she's you know like

00:09:57.100 we've gone in in our current culture it's like you know from like the thin brow to like a really 1.00

00:10:02.040 strong brow and now it's like it's a more modest brow but she she's like the Cara Delevingne of

00:10:06.360 her time she's just like she's bringing you brow so she's like tall and willowy and gorgeous and 0.89

00:10:12.560 And she's, of course, on the marriage market.

00:10:14.520 She's like 16 and well off.

00:10:17.260 And so she catches the eye of this guy, John Elliott, who was a prominent and wealthy physician who proposed to her and she accepted and they got married in London.

00:10:27.560 I think he was, I don't, I forget if he was Scottish or English, but they certainly moved to London.

00:10:33.240 She was 17.

00:10:34.760 He was 35.

00:10:36.660 And this is a real like skater boy.

00:10:42.560 Could I make it any more obvious? 0.99

00:10:44.940 She was a courtesan.

00:10:46.200 He was a physician.

00:10:48.220 What more can I say?

00:10:50.440 What more can I say?

00:10:52.840 It did not function from minute one.

00:10:56.380 It did not do well.

00:10:58.880 They did not get along.

00:11:01.040 I would imagine the age gap was a large part of it.

00:11:03.860 But also, as we're going to see, she's just not someone.

00:11:06.320 He might have married a teenager thinking, oh, she'll be quiet and demure.

00:11:11.040 and i can kind of like groom her or whatever but like grace is gonna be grace like she's not

00:11:15.960 she's not gonna do what she's told yeah yeah as we see throughout her life and so she um

00:11:22.100 right away several affairs right she had affairs he had affairs there's like various sagas were

00:11:29.300 like so in this time and place to have affairs in london you couldn't do it in your own house

00:11:35.020 So you went to these kind of like sort of brothels, sort of bordellos. 0.99

00:11:39.280 It's just kind of like a fuck hotel. 0.98

00:11:44.420 They have these in Japan. 1.00

00:11:46.060 They're like love hotels.

00:11:47.300 It's just a place where you go to have affairs. 0.99

00:11:50.000 But in the 18th century, they called them fuck hotels. 1.00

00:11:53.140 Yeah, that was the phrasing of the olden times, fuck hotels. 1.00

00:11:57.280 But so she would just go there and like see her lovers. 0.99

00:12:00.220 And he would go there and see his lovers.

00:12:01.380 There's one instance where I think they both.

00:12:03.040 oh yes this is so funny each other yeah did you ever hear that eminem it's oh no it's pink it's

00:12:11.440 pink and eminem have you and um they're both playing characters in the same song and they're

00:12:17.380 in a relationship and they're both cheating on each other and there's the bridge where they like

00:12:22.300 see each other they're driving past each other on the road and they both see each other and they

00:12:27.520 both know they're going to cheat at the same time it's a great it's a really funny song but yeah

00:12:32.480 it's basically this that exact moment it's exactly that so like she's having affairs he's having

00:12:37.020 affairs and then she kind of like focuses on one guy who is uh lord valencia who i wrote in my notes

00:12:43.600 is hot i don't i just assume he was because well if grace is going after him if she's like this

00:12:50.020 intent on him and he's also closer to her age which is like 17 so he's not like twice as old

00:12:56.520 as she is possible probably yeah i imagine he's some sort of like rake he's some sort of like

00:13:01.820 anyway himbo like she's having a nice time with this libertine yeah and you know like this is

00:13:08.820 grace's vibe as well like she was not destined to be like a little trad wife like she was gonna

00:13:13.460 she's got a libertine tendencies you know yeah anyway for some reason this this was one affair 1.00

00:13:21.780 too much her husband um hires like a private investigator to get proof that grace is having 0.99

00:13:27.920 this affair and so then the private investigator sees grace going into the fuck hotel um and then 0.99

00:13:33.900 he sues her for adultery he wins um i think i forget if she like has to pay him money or 0.97

00:13:39.920 something but they're not i don't think they get a divorce do they get a no do they because she

00:13:46.120 she's grace elliot for the rest of her life people always call her mrs elliot yeah i i i think

00:13:51.600 you know what like this isn't stopping her this is not getting in her way i just know from my book

00:13:56.280 rebel of the regency available in stores now that the only way you could get a divorce in this time

00:14:02.500 was to prove that the woman had an affair so potentially that's why he was doing this so he

00:14:06.880 could marry somebody else who he liked better it definitely led to a criminal conversation trial

00:14:11.840 and was quite scandalous for sure yeah like he saved her for adultery and she was found

00:14:17.460 to have done it so yeah whether they divorced or not like her reputation is ruined like

00:14:22.720 probably they must have divorced because later there's a guy who she wanted to marry her and he

00:14:26.860 didn't so they must have divorced right but the important thing here is like her reputation is

00:14:31.860 now she's not just like it's ruined right she's like a fallen woman or whatever fallen woman 0.56

00:14:37.420 but coming this fall on lifetime grizzle elliot

00:14:44.220 so it's interesting because it's like because she was like an upper class woman and then this 0.99

00:14:52.180 happen so she's a fallen woman but that just makes her be like an appealing mistress to other 0.99

00:14:57.600 like upper class men it's not just like oh my god now she has to like go and live in poverty 1.00

00:15:01.680 and whatever she's just like no like i'm gonna do sex work but it's gonna be like courtesan level 0.99

00:15:06.460 sex work i'm gonna be like it's like a sugar daddy type situation would be the closest thing 0.97

00:15:10.960 we have now like i sleep with lords and that's it like if you don't have a lord in your name

00:15:16.240 like what are we doing here what are we even talking about well and the lords are like hey

00:15:20.980 do you want to like do you want to we're recording this in the break between part one and part two

00:15:25.600 of the most recent series of bridgerton where the cliffhanger was benedict says to his maid sophie

00:15:32.060 like would you be my mistress and everyone's like how dare you um but for people like him

00:15:37.000 having a mistress was kind of like a sweet deal like they would pay for you to have your own house

00:15:41.920 usually they'd pay for you to have like jewel like she would be set up so and this is just 1.00

00:15:48.060 to work with what she's got like like you mentioned her reputation is completely shattered like what 1.00

00:15:53.020 is she going to do seek out respectable work no it's not really an option right no and she can't 1.00

00:15:58.160 do any work right because she's a woman and all the times like maybe she could be an actress but 0.95

00:16:02.780 that's not respectable no no yeah so she just kind of like she like meets some guys and they like

00:16:08.480 love her and they pay for her um listeners who and this is where gavin and i first bonded about the

00:16:14.600 French actress Rochelle.

00:16:17.640 Oh, that's right.

00:16:18.380 Yes.

00:16:19.160 It's a Rochelle-like situation

00:16:21.220 where she just kind of like, 1.00

00:16:23.740 all these lovers would just pay for her 1.00

00:16:25.700 to have jewels in her homes 1.00

00:16:27.080 and she's just like, great.

00:16:28.940 And that's what you're going to do.

00:16:31.620 No, keep your jewels.

00:16:34.020 Yeah, no, give me the jewels.

00:16:35.400 Like, pay for my house.

00:16:36.300 Thank you.

00:16:37.640 So she just became a mistress to various men

00:16:39.920 in both France and England.

00:16:41.240 And I would imagine

00:16:41.820 because she went to school in France, 0.99

00:16:43.040 she's clearly fluent in the french language she can fit in there and she's gorgeous just like 0.99

00:16:48.360 you hepburn who's meowing here next to me um so her next she's got like various you know lovers

00:16:56.380 but the major one who enters at this point is lord chumlee now there's twice as many letters

00:17:03.560 in that as you might yes based on my pronunciation um but when i was helping out with the audiobook

00:17:11.240 book of my book, Rebel of the Regency, available now. I had to verify the pronunciation of a bunch

00:17:16.980 of names for the audiobook reader. You had to do that? Yeah. I've always wondered who tells

00:17:24.500 narrators how to pronounce certain names. Is it always the author? I don't know. In this instance,

00:17:30.860 it was. In this instance, it was amazing. The more you know. I was just like, why did I put so many

00:17:36.400 names in this book why did i son of a bitch yeah next time if i if i'm so lucky as to get to write 0.98

00:17:42.100 another book i'm gonna put a lot less names in it yeah so i got my friend isabel who is an english 0.84

00:17:47.320 person in england um and she actually stepped forward she was just like let me tell you how

00:17:52.820 to pronounce these names because like no one is angrier than a british person who hears an american

00:17:58.800 person mispronounce a british word yeah yeah anyway so it looks like it should be lord chal

00:18:04.180 Mondoli but guess what Lord Chumlee because guess what he's in my book so um or Lady Chumlee is

00:18:11.520 anyway so she meets Lord Chumlee at a masquerade ball in Paris amazing iconic Bridgerton vibes

00:18:18.600 I mean how many liaisons just started a masked ball you know in the Sofia Coppola Marie Antoinette

00:18:26.140 movie that's where she meets um Axel von Fursten at a masquerade ball in Paris it's just like that's

00:18:30.420 where you meet yeah so he meets her and he's just like oh my god she's great which she is she's

00:18:36.080 like gorgeous she's witty like everybody loves her like she you know she strives hard in her

00:18:42.280 life to like make do but like people just fall for her like she's beautiful but also charming 0.72

00:18:47.760 like her personality she's attractive in every sense of the word word right she just draws people

00:18:53.740 in and this guy lord chumley is like be my mistress come back with me to england she's like

00:18:57.780 yeah why would i say no that'd be foolish but also i want to say like when she was in paris

00:19:04.500 she was hanging out with like like she was i think she was at versailles and stuff like she

00:19:08.940 was like up in the high society in paris like she was there she she learned about all the outfits

00:19:14.160 like we see later on like she's very influenced by what they're wearing like the the diaphanous

00:19:18.500 white gowns and stuff like she's got a real french style about her so she and chumlee um they were

00:19:25.240 together officially for like three years during which time chumley commissioned the famous artist

00:19:31.580 thomas gainsborough gainsborough who is kind of like the portrait artist in england at this time

00:19:37.480 like every famous person from this time who there's a portrait of it's by gainsborough like

00:19:41.980 that he's the guy like you would know more about this from your art-based podcast so he painted

00:19:48.020 this full-length portrait of grace can you i don't know just describe like the effect of this portrait

00:19:53.380 It's like a full body, like you see her beautiful eyebrows.

00:19:58.780 Yeah, I mean, it shows off her beauty.

00:20:01.240 There's this beautiful lighting that kind of falls upon her, really accentuates some of her features.

00:20:08.760 She's wearing, it also tells you a little bit about the kinds of clothing that she liked to wear.

00:20:12.720 She has on a choker that she was known to wear, for example.

00:20:17.240 I think she altered the color of her hair for this portrait as well, if I'm not mistaken.

00:20:23.200 I'm sure she did.

00:20:24.080 She was like always keeping up with the trends.

00:20:25.700 But in terms of the choker, I just wanted to say in all portraits of her, it's like she famously always wore like a velvet ribbon around her neck.

00:20:33.400 That was kind of like her thing.

00:20:36.040 It's like she's got the eyebrows.

00:20:37.660 She's got the velvet ribbon.

00:20:39.800 That's Griselle.

00:20:40.680 That's our grace. 0.99

00:20:41.340 That's Griselle. 0.99

00:20:42.760 Griselle.

00:20:44.220 Do you know the story, the like children's Halloween story about the girl with the yellow ribbon around her neck?

00:20:51.020 Do you know what I'm talking about?

00:20:51.900 I don't think so, no.

00:20:53.580 This might be a Canadian thing, I don't know.

00:20:55.340 There's this very famous children's story

00:20:57.180 that has traumatized generations of children

00:20:59.120 and continues to.

00:21:01.560 Love it.

00:21:01.840 It's in a book that's called

00:21:02.920 Very Scary Stories for Children or something.

00:21:06.820 Anyway, it's about this woman,

00:21:08.140 and she has a yellow ribbon around her neck,

00:21:11.200 and then she's like,

00:21:11.660 I just can't take off the ribbon around my neck,

00:21:13.080 and she marries a guy,

00:21:14.040 and he's like,

00:21:14.400 oh, I want to take off the ribbon on her neck.

00:21:15.940 And then one day he does,

00:21:16.820 and her head falls off. 0.64

00:21:18.920 Oh, yes.

00:21:19.520 I have heard some version of that, yeah.

00:21:21.020 Yeah. So I just feel like Grace is

00:21:23.020 walking around with this ribbon around her neck and I'm just like,

00:21:24.900 what if you take off the ribbon, Grace? What's going to happen,

00:21:27.080 Grace? It's like, why are

00:21:29.020 you afraid of going to the guillotine, Grace? 0.98

00:21:31.080 You already lost your head. 0.98

00:21:32.820 Yeah. Are you hiding the lake?

00:21:35.660 Anyway, so this

00:21:36.500 beautiful painting, it's currently housed

00:21:38.880 at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

00:21:40.860 And so one day, Lord Chumley is friends

00:21:42.780 with the Prince of Wales. Of course.

00:21:45.180 At this time, the future husband

00:21:46.880 of Caroline Brunswick, because this is like

00:21:48.680 20 years before they got married.

00:21:49.860 Have you done work on Carolina Brunswick?

00:21:54.000 I actually wrote a book about Carolina Brunswick.

00:21:56.240 Oh, you wrote a book?

00:21:57.500 Yeah, it's called Rebel of the Regency.

00:22:00.400 When is it available?

00:22:02.120 It's available now, actually.

00:22:03.780 It's available now in stores everywhere.

00:22:06.820 And also, guess what?

00:22:07.780 Audiobook. 1.00

00:22:08.600 Oh, shit. 0.99

00:22:10.720 Feel bad for whoever has to say Chumley. 0.99

00:22:15.640 There's two different Chumleys in the book.

00:22:17.920 When I sent this to my friend Isabel,

00:22:19.500 She was like, you have two different spellings.

00:22:21.800 She's like, this is also Chumley.

00:22:24.920 That's so funny.

00:22:26.600 Anyway, so this guy Chumley, so he's friends with Prinny, which is the nickname of Prince George, the Prince of Wales, future George IV. 0.98

00:22:34.020 It's a shortened version of Prince because he is just a shitty person with a shitty nickname. 0.94

00:22:39.720 So we call him Prinny. 0.99

00:22:40.920 Prinny.

00:22:41.440 That is his name.

00:22:42.440 So Prinny at this point is like a young man.

00:22:44.220 He's like 18-ish. 0.82

00:22:46.600 And he's just entering his kind of like fuckboy era.

00:22:49.500 So very briefly, Prinny was the oldest son of King George and Queen Charlotte. 0.80

00:22:54.580 So King George is the one who lost America, American Revolution, famously.

00:23:01.820 And then Queen Charlotte is the one from Bridgerton.

00:23:04.580 So this is their oldest son, Prinny.

00:23:07.220 Anyway, he was raised very, very, very like not allowed to have fun.

00:23:12.760 They tried to make him be a very serious person.

00:23:14.620 And then as soon as he had his own house, when he was 18, he was just like, I'm all I'm going to do is party constantly, have mistresses and be drunk for the rest of my life.

00:23:25.440 So that's his vibe.

00:23:26.740 I mean, it's how a lot of 18 year old men would probably behave if, you know, they had endless wealth.

00:23:33.580 Exactly. It's just he just never stopped doing that.

00:23:36.700 So he was visiting his friend Chumlee and he saw this full length portrait of Grace and it's just like, oh, my God, who is this hot woman?

00:23:42.780 because he's prinny and he just like loves older women he loves mistresses and he's just like will

00:23:47.940 you introduce me to this person and like what's chumlee gonna do it's like he's the prince um

00:23:53.020 and so at this point prinny and you know what you'll probably come back on this podcast to do

00:23:58.360 an episode about this person later so prinny's current mistress was an actress called mary

00:24:02.740 robinson aka perdita and who is a really interesting person um and also wrote books

00:24:10.320 anyway he was with perdita and then he just saw this painting and he's like never mind i'm gonna

00:24:16.140 date this person so he dumps perdita um and then starts dating grace and because perdita

00:24:25.460 was this actress and because prinny is a prince of wales like there's a lot of this is like

00:24:30.240 the dawning of tabloid culture there's a lot of drawings of them so the people are gossiping about

00:24:37.860 like the prince of wales is dating an actress and then he dumps the actress for grace who's kind of

00:24:42.040 this notorious figure because of her divorce trial right so then like this alleged feud between

00:24:48.240 predita and grace like that you know people the same way as like back in the day it was like

00:24:54.280 angelina jolie versus jennifer aniston like people love like it's the stuff of gossip columns i mean 0.54

00:24:59.660 yeah yeah since since the invention of tabloids just like oh two women we can pit against each 0.69

00:25:05.260 other right right so there's another woman who was kind of part of this group and she was really 1.00

00:25:12.660 short i want to mention at this point that grace because she had a nickname called dally the tall

00:25:18.300 i guess dally short for dalrymple yeah yeah so she's dally the tall and then there was this

00:25:25.240 other actress who was very short and she was called the bird of paradise because she was

00:25:30.680 small and like to dress colorfully so it's like perdita delhi the tall and the bird of paradise

00:25:36.040 i mean that's pretty awesome like a great collection of it's a fantastic collection

00:25:42.140 yeah like personalities i don't know yeah so just like these are the the main characters

00:25:49.540 in the newspapers of the day eventually grace becomes pregnant so she has a child which is a

00:25:57.640 daughter. And she claims that Prinny, the Prince of Wales, is the father of this daughter. Now,

00:26:03.380 was he biologically? We'll never know because she was actively still with Chumley and also a few

00:26:08.820 other people. So she has this daughter, but on the birth certificate or on the baptism record,

00:26:13.920 she says the father is the Prince of Wales. And Prinny kind of seems to have accepted that that

00:26:19.100 was his daughter. Although, although Prinny's whole family, because they were very inbred at

00:26:24.840 this time, were all very blonde. And this little girl, whose name was Georgiana Augusta Frederica, 0.97

00:26:32.160 which is just the female versions of all of Prinny's names, George, August, Frederick,

00:26:37.320 she was like a dark-haired child. So Prinny made some sort of joke one time where he's like,

00:26:44.020 you know, until black is white and white is black, like, I don't know if this is my child,

00:26:48.640 but you know recessive genes etc so she has a child georgiana um prinny is just like widely

00:26:56.300 understood to be the father of this child and then randomly to me but i guess this made sense

00:27:02.980 at the time chumley the like ex-lover who's not married he's just a bachelor is like i'll raise

00:27:09.660 this child that is my friend's child like did prinny ask him to i don't know maybe he suspected

00:27:16.600 that it was his child or maybe he just wanted to help out grace i mean it's interesting that he

00:27:22.600 would take that responsibility chumlee kind of throughout this whole story like even once they

00:27:27.680 stop being lovers like he's kind of always there for her yeah yeah he just kind of liked to help

00:27:33.060 out you get the sense that there were deeper feelings there but also reasons why they could 1.00

00:27:39.120 never marry right yeah because she's so scandalous but the fact that grace had allegedly the 0.96

00:27:45.200 illegitimate child of the Prince of Wales made her even more famous as this kind of like scandalous

00:27:49.340 person but also like having an illegitimate child is like a rite of passage for a Prince of Wales

00:27:55.860 right yes oh my gosh so I think I was telling you this before we were recording but when I was

00:28:01.500 researching my book Rebel of the Regency because there's a chapter about it's the chapter is called

00:28:05.640 We Have to Talk About Prinny and it kind of outlines sort of like who were his mistresses

00:28:11.860 and like who are the people he maybe had children with.

00:28:14.080 And I mentioned Grace just in the context of

00:28:15.880 maybe that was one of his children.

00:28:18.580 But yeah, he had various illegitimate children

00:28:21.980 with various people, Prinny did.

00:28:23.800 And all of his brothers did.

00:28:25.780 And that's just what's happening.

00:28:28.560 But if you're the mother of a girl who is Georgiana,

00:28:32.340 we'll talk later when we're more into like

00:28:33.740 the Regency era of it all.

00:28:35.200 But like she was a desirable person to marry,

00:28:39.080 you know, because she was the illegitimate

00:28:40.960 daughter of the king.

00:28:41.860 Yeah. 0.98

00:28:43.000 Anyway, eventually, Prenny, as was his want, he got tired of her.

00:28:46.660 But you know what?

00:28:47.420 He didn't just dump her like he did to some other people.

00:28:50.160 He, like, handed her off to his friend.

00:28:53.560 The same way he had stolen her from Chumlee.

00:28:55.360 He was like, you know what?

00:28:57.380 I'm tired of her.

00:28:58.180 But my friend, he has various mistresses.

00:29:01.020 I think she would get along with him.

00:29:02.160 And that friend is Philippe the Duke d'Orléans over in France.

00:29:06.940 Now, if you listen to this podcast, Booker History,

00:29:09.600 we did a whole Marie Antoinette series. We talked about the French Revolution and I forget why,

00:29:14.400 but I started calling him Ryan Phillippe. And that is who this is. This is, Ryan Phillippe

00:29:20.500 emerged in the Marie Antoinette season as sort of a stealth villain, honestly, because he was like

00:29:26.720 a cousin of the Royal family. And he thought if he could get the Royal family deposed, that maybe

00:29:31.840 he could be the King. And that was like guiding all of his moves. And then he eventually got his

00:29:36.140 head cut off because that's not how the french revolution works sir but i was just like my god

00:29:41.860 grace was mistress of like two of my least favorite men in history like yeah pretty and

00:29:48.920 ryan philippe like these guys they just like to talk you know and just like talk about nothing

00:29:56.540 and they thought they were so smart she missed the patience of a saint grace to put up with them

00:30:01.800 I mean, she's as long as they keep the jewels coming, you know.

00:30:06.380 Yeah, but wow.

00:30:07.920 So she's with him.

00:30:08.660 He has and he has various mistresses like that's just his vibe. 1.00

00:30:12.160 And she becomes one of his like harem. 0.89

00:30:14.580 And so she went off to Paris to go be the mistress of this guy.

00:30:18.940 So this is Paris 1780s.

00:30:21.440 I don't know if you want to set the scene a little bit, Gavin.

00:30:23.860 What was what was Paris like in the mid 1780s?

00:30:26.560 Oh, well, a great political awakening is underway and will ultimately culminate in the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789.

00:30:37.560 There's growing resentment of the royal family, especially Marie Antoinette, who is both a foreigner and a woman, two strikes against her.

00:30:46.260 but also, of course, known to indulge in all kinds of luxury kind of lifestyle that the

00:30:53.080 vast majority of French people would never be able to enjoy. And then again, like, especially 0.86

00:31:00.440 toward the end of the decade, you start to see like really severe shortages of both food and

00:31:07.040 firewood. So people are like starving to death, freezing to death in particularly hard winters

00:31:13.840 that then affect the harvest.

00:31:15.540 And life is just getting really hard

00:31:17.720 for ordinary French people.

00:31:20.820 I'm trying to think of what would be similar today.

00:31:24.180 Like to go, to be like, you know what?

00:31:27.100 I'm going to go live in Paris now.

00:31:29.320 It's like, now you're going to move to Paris

00:31:31.940 in the middle of this?

00:31:33.760 But she was living in the, like with Ryan Phillippe.

00:31:37.180 So he had sort of, because he was like

00:31:39.220 related to the royal family,

00:31:40.440 he had sort of like a fake Versailles type situation.

00:31:43.060 like a house that he lived in that was attached to all these shops and stores we call it his mall

00:31:48.000 his outdoor mall complex um which we call la fufu versailles because he was trying to be like i should

00:31:55.300 be the king instead of them he's like i'm the king of the people so he had like shops and stores and

00:32:00.280 operas so people could like come there and like he was more popular than marie antoinette and her

00:32:04.740 husband because he was like in paris they were like a bit far away in versailles and anyway

00:32:10.160 who could have known where this was all headed i know not her but she was just like great i'm

00:32:16.900 gonna go be the mistress of ron philippe i'm gonna live at la fufu versai in the mall and

00:32:22.540 she was just like she had several years of just like having a nice time having a great time food

00:32:28.100 she's gorgeous she's great like she like this is where people are wearing those like the really 1.00

00:32:32.980 simple white muslin dresses the like marie internet's favorite famous fuck dress as i call 1.00

00:32:38.400 it. Grace looked great in that, you know, powdering her hair. She's having a great time. 1.00

00:32:44.460 And then one day the French Revolution started. I love this. She describes this day, the July 12th, 0.96

00:32:51.740 1789. So two days before the fall of the best deal, which is, you know, obviously cited as like

00:32:56.800 the outbreak, but two days before it's a Sunday and she's just having like a low key,

00:33:03.700 relaxing lazy sunday she gets up she and the duke of orleans they go out of paris they go to one of

00:33:11.760 his chateau outside outside the city and she's sunbathing and the men are off fishing and then

00:33:18.980 they have a great feast it's just like a killer time they're like all right let's go back into

00:33:23.640 the city we're gonna go to one of our favorite theaters just cap off this lovely sunday they

00:33:29.580 come in all hell has broken loose in Paris because um the firing of of Jack Necker and

00:33:38.120 people are like dying in the street and they're just like oh my god and yeah basically it's the

00:33:44.240 first you know um uh instance of like kind of mass violence and demonstrations of the French

00:33:51.760 revolution right and we were talking before about like what side is she on it's like she's on the

00:33:55.700 side of like her and her friends who are in a cart trying to not be murdered like understandably so

00:34:00.460 she's like pro royals she's pro marie antonette pro louis the the 16th like she's just like

00:34:07.920 because those are her friends and that's yeah this is how she's surviving is by these people

00:34:12.680 funding her lifestyle so and she's not anyone who's been like reading about like oh my god

00:34:18.300 like the popular sovereignty like maybe people should have a say in their government that kind 0.58

00:34:24.540 of shit like no that's not of interest to her and like she was not right and like it would have been 0.77

00:34:31.520 surprising if it was because yeah there's an amazing example of grace elliott's staggering 0.99

00:34:39.360 tone deafness so the day after this shit goes down on july 12th july 13th again like riots in 0.92

00:34:47.700 the street people dying because of like just like the abject poverty that so many french people were 0.96

00:34:57.300 living in so she she decides that it's a good day to go see her jeweler because she wants another

00:35:03.700 diamond so she like gets in the carriage and like there are there's a mob in the street she can't

00:35:11.960 pass through and she's like excuse me like i'm trying to go get my like some jewelry and 1.00

00:35:18.620 apparently someone uh like just shoved like a head on a stick like a severed head on a pike

00:35:24.960 through the window of her carriage and she just fainted but then she had to go home she had to go 0.54

00:35:29.980 home didn't get her didn't get her diamond i just want to mention heads on pikes heads on sticks

00:35:35.480 comes up a lot in french revolution there's just a lot there's just it feels like you can't go

00:35:40.180 anywhere without a head on a no stick being shoved at you but yeah this it's giving me

00:35:44.460 madame du barry you know oh yes yes yes at this time where she was like oh my god someone stole

00:35:51.460 my jewels and she put up posters all over me like did anyone see my jewels like starving peasant 0.61

00:35:56.380 woman have you seen my jewels have you seen my jewels please return them to this my manor house 0.89

00:36:01.900 where i have other jewels like excuse me my jewels like you can think of like one of those missing

00:36:06.460 pet posters that you see like on a you know a phone uh a telephone pole or something but it's

00:36:12.900 just like diamonds instead of a dog in the middle of the french revolution like excuse me um if you

00:36:17.280 find my jewels can you please it's like so the tone deafness like this kind of shows what how

00:36:23.780 much this was the wealthy people in paris at this time didn't understand what was happening but also

00:36:31.560 didn't realize that everything had changed, you know, like they didn't realize like you can't

00:36:38.160 just go buy your diamonds. Yeah. And in her journal, it's important to note that she says

00:36:43.680 almost nothing about the arguments in favor of the revolution. You see no intellectual engagement

00:36:50.340 with that at all, nor is there much acknowledgement of the widespread suffering of the vast majority

00:36:58.980 of french people at this time it she seems just like completely removed it's like doesn't she 0.98

00:37:03.980 doesn't give a shit she's like does not give a shit yeah yeah and it's like i don't know fair 0.98

00:37:10.840 enough like perhaps she should have but like in her life experience like and everyone right i mean 0.99

00:37:18.760 everyone she was around like yeah this like what she's describing is how everyone was it's not just

00:37:24.200 her like everyone in her sort of social class so this is what 1789 um and then she because she was

00:37:31.220 friends with prinny um and because there starts being sort of like a clamping down of like people

00:37:37.100 england and france and like sending letters back and forth is kind of tricky so she became sort of

00:37:42.820 like she would secretly communicate some letters back and forth um between members of the british

00:37:47.840 government and members of the exiled french court in belgium so she's doing some i would say like

00:37:52.560 light spy adjacent shenanigans it's something like espionage for sure yeah but this is also

00:37:59.320 where you're like why doesn't she just go back to england at this point and the reason she does

00:38:03.220 not come back to england at this point is because she has so many debts that she um is afraid that

00:38:09.460 if she goes back she'll be put in debtor's jail so she would rather stay in paris during the french

00:38:14.380 revolution then risk going to debtor's jail seems like um so she's just kind of like

00:38:22.500 she stays like it's 1789 like time passes we get up to 1792 she's still there yeah she's just like

00:38:32.040 yeah and hanging out okay so what is this so oh this is just a bit after so it's something that's

00:38:38.040 like we'll talk about that in a second because we're gonna get into some of her like active

00:38:42.000 espionage adjacent shenanigans. So 1792, the, um, the Tuileries, can you set the scene?

00:38:49.920 What happens? Sure. So, um, date is August 10th, 1792. A kind of mass hysteria comes over Paris

00:39:00.640 on this date because there is widespread fear of an imminent foreign invasion, I believe by the

00:39:06.280 Prussian army. And basically the guy in charge, uh, the Duke of Brunswick has made very clear

00:39:11.520 that he is just going i'm so sorry i'm so sorry the duke of brunswick the father of caroline of

00:39:16.080 brunswick rebel of the regency yeah absolutely is who it is the duke of brunswick that's her dad

00:39:22.460 and i'll talk about that in my book rebel of the regency

00:39:24.580 he has basically vowed to raise paris to the ground so everyone is freaking out um it scares

00:39:32.300 the holy hell out of parisians but it also has the unintended effect of touching off an armed

00:39:37.740 insurrection. So a bunch of people weapon up and they march down both banks of the Seine toward

00:39:43.980 the, is it Tuileries? I've always heard Tuileries, but I'm just going to say Tuileries because that's

00:39:51.680 what I've heard. And I took French for reading in grad school, but that doesn't mean I know how to

00:39:56.520 say any of it. So I'll just say Tuileries. I could totally be wrong. Anyway, so that's where

00:40:05.220 the royal family has been living since they relocated from Versailles. And there are like

00:40:11.760 thousands of rioters descending on the palace and Louis and Marie Antoinette are like, let's get the 0.88

00:40:19.180 fuck out of here. And they do that. So they evacuate. And the rioters arrive at the palace. 0.87

00:40:26.920 They are looking for the royal family. They are confronted by the guards. These are Swiss guardsmen.

00:40:32.360 there are also national guardsmen there as well they're about a little over 2 000 but they are

00:40:38.060 vastly outnumbered and the insurrectionists are like listen you need to take us to the royal 0.97

00:40:43.860 family right now or we're gonna fucking kill you and the swiss guardsmen are like guess what we 0.98

00:40:49.800 took a vow to protect the royal family so bring it on they fire on the mob and the palace just 1.00

00:40:57.560 descends into absolute carnage. What results is often called the slaughter of the Swiss guardsmen.

00:41:05.820 Like 800 of them were brutally just massacred by the insurrectionists and they would not just

00:41:13.500 cut them down. They would do things like castrate their corpses and hold up their genitals as 0.61

00:41:20.400 trophies out on the street. So it was extremely brutal. This is often cited as like one of the

00:41:25.000 most horrific incidents in the french revolution and terror spreads because like there's just this

00:41:32.020 intense bloodletting going on at the royal palace right and grace elliott happens to live not too 0.60

00:41:39.840 far away yeah yep she lives not too far away at all and for once in her life she's like huh maybe

00:41:46.440 i should get out of here now's the time to like maybe now is the time yeah yeah but at this point

00:41:51.860 there was sort of like um because of everything that happened with the french revolution like

00:41:56.360 listen to my or gavin's various podcasts about this for more details but like you couldn't get

00:42:00.700 in or out of paris like there was guards there was like a gate like there's a fence like you

00:42:05.960 can't just leave paris um and so she's like okay i need to get out of here and like her boyfriend

00:42:11.700 ryan philippe had like gifted her this property outside of town she's like it'd be great to go

00:42:15.600 there, but how can I get out? Like the gates to the city are closed. And then, um, so it's sort

00:42:22.780 of like, this is like, she tells the story herself, but like her, her maid reminds her like,

00:42:27.680 oh, but you have this porter, like one of your servants has a house that like, there's a hole

00:42:34.780 in the wall near his house that maybe you can climb the fence or something like that.

00:42:38.920 so she's just like we're gonna do it like let's get gone like i'm tall we can do it that's right

00:42:46.540 so they go to this house that's like near the wall um oh but this is a part where like she

00:42:52.760 hadn't worn good shoes where it's just like she doesn't get it like i don't know what shoes she

00:42:57.540 had that would be good for this walk but like yeah well i think she was also terrified like

00:43:02.780 she's like i need to get the hell out i don't have time to pack right like just

00:43:06.040 go get gone like you said yeah so she i mean if you could describe what happens like she's wearing 0.95

00:43:12.880 these like white silk slippers like her feet just like with no soles on them no soles and it's a 0.99

00:43:19.400 long like it's a pretty long walk to this nearby village where she has a property and so she

00:43:26.160 makes the walk and um by the time she reaches her house her feet are just like bleeding um

00:43:33.460 she has a pretty frightening run-in with this unknown figure along the way um she's worried

00:43:41.960 that he might pose some kind of threat to her but yeah she eventually makes it there and just

00:43:46.580 collapses you know it's like very late at night early in the morning and yeah it's like pretty

00:43:52.700 dramatic but she is able to make it she does it she like climbs the fence um she gets to this

00:43:58.920 house so she herself is safe um and then she's i presume i don't know just like soaking her feet

00:44:04.860 i don't i don't know that's right yeah just like bandages on her feet and she stays there for

00:44:12.140 for some period of time and then um a messenger boy arrives from paris with a message from her

00:44:17.480 friend mrs mailer and so mrs mailer like the message basically says like there's this guy

00:44:26.120 only you grace can help save his life can you return to paris to save this man's life

00:44:30.980 and so to even just to like return from this like small town into paris she had to get a passport

00:44:36.880 because like things are so controlled so she got like a 24-hour passport right it's a thing i guess

00:44:43.020 like you need to get in and out of the city yeah and so she goes there so they're sort of like um

00:44:50.120 oh this is sorry so the tuileries that was august yeah yes yeah yeah so this is september so like a

00:44:57.040 month later so during the guess what september massacres september massacres i love this scene

00:45:03.240 because she rolls up okay well i just want to like explore like the mob the september massacres

00:45:08.300 are like the mob just like breaks into various prisons and just starts like killing all the

00:45:12.000 prisoners yeah um and so grace gets her 24-hour passport and she gets to paris and they're like

00:45:17.540 girl what why do you want to come in like have you not heard and she's like heard of what but

00:45:23.980 it's it's another amazing moment where she arrives in paris from another location and like

00:45:30.020 while she was gone all hell has broken loose right yeah so she gets to the like border control like

00:45:37.720 to enter paris and she's like hey i have this 24-hour passport can you and it's funny because

00:45:41.720 her her friend mrs mailer is like hey there's a person i need to help she doesn't say who it is

00:45:46.380 or why grace but grace is just like you know what i'm being called upon to help and i shall do it

00:45:50.720 and this is where it's like where like i i ride for her where it's just like yeah she's like i

00:45:55.720 will help this person yeah like yeah so the guards are like what are you doing here and she's like

00:46:01.360 my mother is sick and i just got a 24-hour passport to come and see her as she dies yeah yeah

00:46:07.140 okay so she goes to mrs mailer's house and and explain explain who is there who's this man okay

00:46:13.800 So she discovers a man who she has seen before.

00:46:18.000 He is an English-born aristocrat by the name of the Marquis of Champs-Aînay.

00:46:23.340 She had never really had a substantive interaction with him, but she knew him from, like, royal circles and everything.

00:46:32.100 He and the Duke of Orleans had had this really bitter falling out ever since the revolution.

00:46:37.820 So she hadn't seen him in recent years.

00:46:39.800 But he was the governor of the Tuileries Palace.

00:46:43.220 And this is where we're going to flash back in time to the slaughter of the Swiss Guardsmen, because he is present for that again on August 10th.

00:46:50.800 And this is where the story just gets so intense.

00:46:53.820 Like from this point on, the story is so intense.

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00:49:48.540 And we're back. So the slaughter of the Scarsman is happening. The Marquis of Chanson 8 is in the

00:49:56.060 palace, and he basically has two options. He can stay and fight. If he goes that route, there is

00:50:01.700 virtually a 100% chance that he will not only die but have his corpse desecrated like those of his

00:50:08.820 comrades or he can flee and he chooses to flee so he takes a running start and leaps out an upper

00:50:16.600 story window window of the palace landing not on the ground but instead literally in a heap of

00:50:23.480 corpses on a pile of bodies pile of dead bodies and he just lays there because he's like i it's

00:50:30.100 too dangerous for me to get up and make a run for it right now. I will be taken. There's no way I'll

00:50:34.360 survive. So he just lies there again, surrounded by his comrades, uh, just like drenched in their

00:50:40.140 sweat and blood. And he stays there for several hours and someone is combing through the pile of

00:50:46.120 bodies later on and recognizes him. And it's an ally takes off his jacket, gives it to him. He's

00:50:52.020 like, look, you've got a disguise, like get the hell out of here and go. Now's the time where you

00:50:55.820 can make a run for it. So he leaves and he tries to find help at various places across Paris, but

00:51:02.980 he's kind of thwarted wherever he goes. And there's this one really intense moment where

00:51:08.100 a horseman rides through the streets and makes a public pronouncement. And he's like, listen,

00:51:15.300 if anyone is caught aiding and abetting anyone who tried to defend the royal family at the 0.97

00:51:21.820 Tuileries Palace today, you will be put to death. So basically, anyone who tries to provide assistance

00:51:30.500 to the Marquis of Chancenay is screwed. So nobody wants to help him. Finally, he thinks, he remembers 0.95

00:51:38.220 Mrs. Mailer, and for some reason, he's acquainted with her, and he happens to know that she's a

00:51:43.320 pretty staunch royalist, and so is her maid. And she lives alone with her maid. So he goes to her,

00:51:48.840 finds her and i love this i love this part of the story so he goes up to the building and there's a 0.95

00:51:55.600 porter it's like who are you here to see oh i'm a monsieur he comes up with some bullshit name he's

00:52:00.700 like i'm monsieur charlie totally totally totally revolutionary yeah that's right monsieur

00:52:10.640 jacobin yes like yeah so he's admitted he goes upstairs explains the predicament to mrs maylor

00:52:17.700 And so Mrs. Mayer's like, okay, I will harbor you here.

00:52:21.140 You have somewhere to stay.

00:52:22.520 And they devise this ruse.

00:52:24.440 So they're like, listen, the porter has seen you enter this house.

00:52:27.740 And he's going to get suspicious if he doesn't see you leave because he knows you don't live here.

00:52:32.240 So they go back downstairs and leave the property.

00:52:36.600 And Mrs. Mayer makes sure that the porter sees both of them go.

00:52:40.640 And then she lingers and she strikes up a conversation with the porter.

00:52:43.700 He's like, oh, my God, have you heard about all this, like, bloodshed over at the palace? 0.55

00:52:47.100 And they're crazy. 0.99

00:52:47.880 He's like, damn, I know, right? 0.99

00:52:50.020 So while they're talking, Chancenay sneaks around to the side entrance and is led in by the maid. 0.98

00:52:57.520 And then he just hides up in the attic for about three weeks until Grace Elliott is summoned.

00:53:03.100 And the reason Grace Elliott is summoned is because she lives out of town.

00:53:08.320 So it's kind of a better idea for her to hide him because Paris, like everything is popping off in Paris, right?

00:53:14.340 But there's a more specific reason, which is that the state has introduced this new form of terror and control, namely what are called the domiciliary visits.

00:53:24.600 So these are visits that take place in homes and businesses.

00:53:29.040 And when these occur, the entire city locks down. 1.00

00:53:32.180 and if the like pikemen are patrolling the streets and if you're seen out and about 1.00

00:53:37.700 it could look suspicious things may not go well with for you indeed they almost certainly will 1.00

00:53:43.860 not go well for you and these domiciliar visits are getting ready to start tonight so that's why

00:53:50.320 mrs mayor is like grace you have to get here now and get him out of here because if i'm discovered

00:53:56.080 harboring this fugitive like people know at this point that chancenay has escaped and they're

00:54:01.680 looking for him actively so she's like it's too this is too dangerous you have to get him out of

00:54:06.800 here i want to mention also too because this this is part of the drama chanson is like very ill

00:54:13.020 right he is right he's got like various oldie timey symptoms well just like

00:54:17.460 nervous fever and i'm like i don't know what that means but yeah but he's like i don't know

00:54:23.540 he's just like sweating he's dehydrated he's not thriving he's probably like traumatized honestly

00:54:29.280 yeah yeah he's probably just like in like long-term shock and just like you know immune system not

00:54:34.540 great so he's kind of like sweaty not doing great right so grace shows up and she like learns the

00:54:39.360 situation she's like great you know what i will help this sweaty man she's like it's really fine

00:54:44.460 i have my passport like i got my passports all we have to do get to the city walls get out of here

00:54:49.460 right because the city walls like the city gates are going to close later tonight like let's just

00:54:54.980 chill let's let the sun go down and because we don't want to be seen out and about in the daytime

00:55:00.620 let's just let the sun go down then we'll get my carriage we'll go to the city gates i've got my 0.98

00:55:05.180 passports boom we're out of here but guess what the city gates are closed city gates are fucking 0.68

00:55:13.020 closed and now yes and so grace kind of starts to panic because again like the domiciliar visits 0.87

00:55:21.260 are about to start like they could start at any time and they need to be off the street when that

00:55:27.560 happens but luckily for chanson a grace is like oh my god i've escaped the city once before in the 0.96

00:55:34.360 past 30 days so check me out because i know where there's a breach in the wall so let's go in there

00:55:39.440 like hop in our carriage we'll go back to where my porter lives it's totally fine we've done this

00:55:43.680 before if we hurry we can make it they get in the carriage um then they get out in front of uh or

00:55:51.240 near like, you know, down the street from the breach. And they're getting ready to go in.

00:55:56.020 They round a corner. And at the opposite end of the street, they see a group of patrolmen

00:56:02.200 armed to the teeth. And it just hits both of them. The domiciliary visits have already started.

00:56:08.820 It's too late. They're not going to be able to escape the city. So this is this amazing moment

00:56:15.660 to where you kind of have to like appreciate grace elliott because she starts to cry like 0.97

00:56:22.460 tears are streaming down her face she's like oh my fucking god like what are we gonna do 0.96

00:56:25.680 how can we ever escape this situation chancene is like listen i'm not gonna ask you to put your 0.99

00:56:32.220 life in danger for me i will turn myself in you can just go home like you don't have to do this

00:56:36.680 and grace is like no dude ride or die like we are doing i've made i've made a promise that i would

00:56:42.240 protect you we're gonna do this so let's turn around they do a 180 they go the opposite direction

00:56:47.700 and eventually they head to another part of the city and they are able to they happen to pass by

00:56:57.300 grace elliott's residence and a bunch of residents at lefoufou versailles her because she had she had

00:57:03.760 lodgings there from when she was being the lover of ryan philippe so she's like oh my god i have a

00:57:08.620 palace right here like okay yes i just want to set up like so that's where they are they're back at

00:57:12.620 the mall they're at la fufu versailles and um some of grace elliott's servants are like hanging out

00:57:18.120 outside because remember grace elliott has been out of the city for like i don't know three or

00:57:22.400 four weeks at this point they don't really have anyone to like wait on hand and foot um but i

00:57:27.740 guess she could come back at any time that's the thinking so she realizes that there's no way she's

00:57:33.240 going to be able to get past them and she tells chancenay to like duck out of sight she's like

00:57:37.940 go hide in that building um i'll see what i can do so she just kind of materialized like hey

00:57:43.000 everyone what's up like just popping back home and they're like okay great and this is great but

00:57:49.940 grace elliott knows that her house is not going to be the most hospitable place for chancenay 1.00

00:57:56.500 because she has a Jacobin cook and like a radical revolutionary who like hates the aristocracy

00:58:04.280 which is fascinating that that person would be working for Grace Elliott but anyway they're able

00:58:11.520 to devise a way to sneak Chancenay actually they don't even sneak Chancenay into the

00:58:17.780 He comes to the door, he's like, hello, bourgeoisie.

00:58:20.420 It's me, Monsieur Jacobin.

00:58:23.880 Yeah, they're like, they're in the middle of like coming up with a great scheme, right?

00:58:28.460 Because, yeah, the porter is like an ally.

00:58:31.760 And he's like, okay, we can sneak him into the house.

00:58:33.880 And then just like they hear a knock at the door. 0.94

00:58:36.040 And Chanson A is there.

00:58:37.080 And Grace is like, I happen to be in the neighborhood.

00:58:39.740 Chilly, chill, you guys.

00:58:41.100 Hey, what's up?

00:58:42.400 And the Jacobin cook recognizes him. 0.82

00:58:44.420 and it's like you like a like you should be dead right now like people are searching for you to 0.98

00:58:52.220 kill you but b you're actually putting all of us at risk even by showing up on our doorstep 0.97

00:58:58.500 because you are wanted so it's a really dangerous situation anyway grace is able to get the cook 0.99

00:59:05.560 out of the house and they get they sneak kind of sneak chanson a in and the porter has the idea

00:59:11.760 of hiding Chancenay between two of Grace's mattresses

00:59:16.800 in her bedchamber.

00:59:18.520 And that's what they do.

00:59:19.660 In the bed, I want to clarify it.

00:59:21.080 Like when I first read that he's between two mattresses,

00:59:23.080 I was picturing the mattresses were leading up

00:59:24.500 against the wall or something.

00:59:26.240 But no, it's like literally like mattress,

00:59:28.320 Chancenay, other mattress, Grace gets into the bed.

00:59:32.260 So he's just like smushed.

00:59:34.440 He's like sweaty, panicky guy.

00:59:37.240 It's just like smushed inside her bed.

00:59:40.000 Yes, yeah.

00:59:41.220 And I guess they're able to, like, arrange the bedding some way that you wouldn't be able to tell.

00:59:46.080 I don't know.

00:59:46.580 It's hard for me to kind of picture how exactly this was working.

00:59:49.420 But, yeah.

00:59:50.080 But, yeah.

00:59:50.860 So, he's in between two mattresses, and Grace just, like, hangs out there.

00:59:55.940 At 4 a.m., the domiciliary visits come, or, like, begins at, sorry, at 4 a.m., the domiciliary visit begins at Grace's residence.

01:00:05.280 And the way she tells it in her memoir, word has reached these patrolmen that she is sheltering Chantinet. So they just, like, storm into her house, dozens of them, and just start, like, tearing things to shreds, like, overturning furniture, rifling through any place where Chantinet could be hiding. They're just, like, going for it.

01:00:29.500 and finally like according to grace elliott something like 40 men just enter her bed 0.67

01:00:36.840 chamber and she's sitting in bed in her nightgown in her nightgown cover story because she's like

01:00:43.620 well they won't get me to get out of bed if i'm in my nightgown that would be exactly right i know

01:00:48.380 it's like we're like decapitating everyone like blood and gore running down the streets but like

01:00:53.940 chivalry hasn't died you know yeah right but still imagine like you're in bed 40 armed men

01:01:01.920 just into your bedroom i mean it would be this like completely terrifying scenario if it played

01:01:07.840 out exactly as grace described it and yeah they they kind of get into this back and forth and

01:01:13.340 at first she's like oh you're not going to make me rise and dress in front of you because they

01:01:17.840 want to search her bed they think that possibly chanson could be hiding there she's like at first

01:01:22.680 she's like, oh my God, you're not going to make me do that. And then she kind of changes tack and

01:01:27.480 she's like, well, wait a second. What if I actually pretend to be this like gracious hostess? Like

01:01:32.080 maybe that could disarm them. So she's like, well, actually, you know what? Like, why don't I get up

01:01:36.020 and get dressed? And then I'll, I'll personally escort you through my house. You can totally be

01:01:39.940 my guest, like search wherever you want. And you know what? Maybe like my jock up and cook can like

01:01:45.040 throw together a pie for you to be great. Like you guys have been working all night. You need

01:01:49.500 some nourishment, right? They're like, oh my God, Grace, you're like,

01:01:52.680 so cool sorry for like destroying all of your furniture like you know it's just part of the job

01:01:59.220 it's part of the job and um so they basically like you know what it's fine like you can stay in the

01:02:04.860 bed don't don't trouble yourself we still have to search it but like you don't have to get out

01:02:09.020 and someone does search the bed but they don't find just like casually yeah casually like oh my

01:02:14.140 god i can't believe we're doing this to her like she's such a cool person and like anyway so they

01:02:20.180 they leave and chanson is undiscovered and he emerges where the mattress is just like

01:02:27.460 drenched in sweat drenched in sweat like barely able to she's actually like concerned that he

01:02:32.900 might suffocate or something like under because he's like literally between two mattresses

01:02:38.820 for a long time too he was hiding there for for quite some time and so yeah she she sets him up

01:02:44.660 the boudoir um unbeknownst to quite a few of her housemates like they don't even know that

01:02:50.740 a fugitive is being harbored in the in the house and he stays there for several for uh several days

01:02:55.120 while kind of finally yeah the city gates heparin is here she's here for this exciting

01:03:00.640 which is that the city gates eventually reopen and frankly they just are able to leave well

01:03:06.420 actually first she caught up on ryan philippe and she's like i know these guys had some beef

01:03:10.140 but like maybe he can help and ryan philippe is like girl sorry i can't and i'm like i can hate

01:03:14.260 this dude i know he's never yes but then he does come through for them he does come through for

01:03:20.020 them later so they escape back to her like house outside of town um and he sent a message being

01:03:25.140 basically like okay there's this mail cart that he can sneak into and if you like bribe the driver

01:03:31.080 we can smuggle him out um and chanson we didn't mention but he was originally from england

01:03:37.020 so he was able to eventually smuggle himself back to england

01:03:40.620 and grace like she she got away with it she gets away with it yeah yeah for now for now but i mean

01:03:50.280 like everyone it's sort of it's a real paranoid situation everybody's a spy everywhere i'm sure 0.68

01:03:54.340 the jacobin cook is like telling everything to everybody in her mouth yeah and eventually work

01:03:59.900 on around that because grace elliott has been doing this but also we mentioned before about

01:04:03.340 like sending like facilitating the secret correspondence correspondence yeah yeah so

01:04:08.180 she's helping like so ryan philippe had been bros with prinny back in england for a long time both

01:04:12.560 of them were like oh we're two guys too bad we can't be king we'd be so much better than the

01:04:17.040 current kings me like let's share mistresses like they were friends and so ryan philippe had been

01:04:22.340 corresponding with england because ryan philippe wants to like take over and be the king of france

01:04:25.920 and stuff grace elliott friends with both of them so she's just like been helping like compared to

01:04:31.300 what we just described like some low-key espionage type stuff just letter-based stuff well i have to

01:04:36.980 think i off i get the sense from reading her journal that we just don't even know the half

01:04:42.660 of what she was up to um it's just a gut feeling i can't really prove it but certain things in

01:04:48.840 there make me suspect that she was doing more yeah than she than she uh reveals well that's

01:04:54.380 the thing too because it's kind of like how much does she want to reveal like in this memoir you

01:04:58.160 know well she says so to jump ahead to the next major episode she's kind of like right she word

01:05:05.280 has gone around that she's a spy etc etc and one night this other aristocrat the contest uh day

01:05:16.400 perigard perry is it perigard or perijard i don't know i don't know i don't know but she

01:05:24.200 basically wants the chanson aid treatment and she's like hey can you help me immigrate i would 0.75

01:05:29.680 prefer not to die here and grace elliott's like oh yeah that's like old hat this so she is hiding

01:05:35.660 uh perry jar or she she has i'm gonna say perry jar over um and um it just so happens that the

01:05:46.080 guards come calling basically to detain to search grace elliott's uh residence and possibly to 0.91

01:05:53.560 detain her and so grace elliott is like fuck um and so she tells the countess to leap into 0.98

01:06:00.980 a closet so she had previously set this up so i feel like she's running sort of like the 0.97

01:06:06.920 like the safe house for like runaway exactly there's no way like you do not set this up if

01:06:14.280 you if you think you might use it just one time right like but yeah so she she has this like safe 1.00

01:06:21.040 house set up and she's removed all the shelves from inside the closet and also like put up a 0.96

01:06:26.780 sheet of paper so that someone can hide in there and then there's also a way to fasten the door

01:06:32.300 from the inside of the closet and i'm like this is not her first time first rodeo right like

01:06:38.420 i'm sure you'd only set this up if you planned to help if you were planning to like help people

01:06:44.480 like really yeah i've got an aristocrat in like hiding spot number one hiding spot number two

01:06:48.980 like the secret bookshelf we got the secret passageway someone's up to me like she's got

01:06:53.980 to figure it out ever since the mattress scenario she's like we gotta we gotta make plan b c d like 1.00

01:06:59.420 yeah yeah that's right so um the countess like jumps in there and the guards come in and they're

01:07:08.700 searching you know they've heard that she's a royalist they know she's suspect they're looking

01:07:13.100 for any potentially damning evidence that they can find and they come across um a letter from a guy

01:07:19.920 named jeffrey wright addressed to charles fox who was an english member of parliament it's

01:07:26.280 we talked about in a couple weeks ago we did an episode about georgiana the duchess of devonshire

01:07:31.860 who's very involved in politics charles fox was one of the one of her main guys that was her friend

01:07:37.680 he liked to just for fun fact um powder his hair fun colors like pink i love that i didn't

01:07:44.640 that's awesome he was he was he was a politician but he was also like a fashion plate yes i love

01:07:51.020 it i love it and um he's interesting i've come across i've come across some of my research as

01:07:55.800 well but i didn't know about the pink hair which i love this is where it's like so i just wanted

01:08:00.560 to say like they find this letter between her and him and it's like guys it could just be about like

01:08:05.080 hair products yeah right like what what are you using for your brows they're so lush like do you

01:08:11.360 have a gel like it probably just about that like well the thing is that it's not even from grace

01:08:16.300 elliott it's from jeffrey wright but to charles fox to charles fox and and um grace elliott was

01:08:22.980 sort of the go-between so she has no idea what is even in this letter that is being you know held

01:08:28.220 up as incriminating evidence against her so they they take her uh they place her under arrest

01:08:35.660 uh take her to a guard room it's miserable uh she's the only one i wanted to say so this is 1793

01:08:42.640 like i i did my whole french revolution season and i was in it and i knew all of it and then

01:08:48.500 like i've gradually started forgetting things but this is like robespierre era this is like

01:08:54.140 every like the french revolution is kind of like the heads on pikes era and a rose beer takes over

01:08:59.700 and i was just kind of like this sort of like fascist dictatorship situation where just like

01:09:03.720 people could be so it's like that there's kind of like these like you're put in front of sort of

01:09:08.800 the place where she's taken she's put in jail and then she's going to be put on trial but it's just

01:09:12.420 in front of kind of like the government of the time yeah yeah yeah and she eventually is going

01:09:20.320 to go before the revolutionary tribunal and that's where she the revolutionary tribunal just kind of

01:09:25.080 like these guys yeah yeah she she winds up there um and again she's just terrified at this point

01:09:31.920 she really starts to fear for her life because again she has no idea what is in this letter she

01:09:37.560 has no idea and the contents of it are basically going to seal her fate so she stands before the

01:09:45.360 revolutionary tribunal and one of them starts attacking her he's like i know her she's a

01:09:51.160 royalist like she is not to be trusted put her to death and then another person breaks in and is

01:09:55.660 like wait a second this letter is addressed to charles fox and he's actually sympathetic to

01:10:01.780 the revolutionary cause so like why would we just assume that this is some like something

01:10:06.960 going on they have not opened the letter yet at this point the letter is

01:10:11.060 but and yet they're still like it's like who even care it's like almost an afterthought at

01:10:17.940 this point in the conversation was like just kill her um but yeah so eventually they decide

01:10:23.560 to have grace elliott open the letter and then read it themselves i think because it was going

01:10:29.680 to be in english and their english wasn't good enough darkly comic moment to like a life or

01:10:38.340 death scenario for grace elliot where she has to like literally read this letter aloud for them

01:10:45.580 um and she may have done some translation as well but yeah so she opens the letter

01:10:50.920 and takes it out and her hands are just trembling right and it turns out that the letter is just

01:10:59.480 full of praise for france there's a french language manifesto extolling the virtues of

01:11:07.160 the revolution. And basically everyone at the tribunal is just delighted by what they hear

01:11:15.400 in the letter. So Grace is able to go free despite this brush with death, but that only

01:11:21.200 lasts for so long. She does wind up in prison again later on. And that's a whole saga unto

01:11:26.400 itself. It is a saga unto itself that I think perhaps one day you will talk about on your

01:11:31.820 podcast but um in terms of grace like she's in jail but then eventually she just like everything

01:11:39.760 falls apart when well this whole thing kind of falls apart when robespierre ends up dying and

01:11:44.540 just a lot of people just got freed at that point and she was freed like she was in jail for like

01:11:50.780 a year or so she said that she claimed that one of the people she met in jail was josephine de

01:11:55.680 Beauharnais right who later became the wife of Napoleon and the Empress of France and also

01:12:01.800 supposedly shared a cell with Madame Tussauds when she was in prison probably didn't yeah we didn't

01:12:08.520 just a lot of people it's it's just kind of like you want to throw the names in there to make your

01:12:12.820 memoir be more like oh I know them yeah right but so she's released and so in terms of what happened

01:12:19.520 to her. Like this is, this is, you know, in The Hunger Games, the book and the movie,

01:12:25.660 the first one. Oh no, no, no. The last one, the one where like they overthrow the government and

01:12:31.420 stuff. And then Katniss and PETA, and then there's an epilogue and they're like, we live in a farm

01:12:35.140 now and we have children and everything is quiet and it's just like domestic. And like, we don't

01:12:41.360 do anything like that anymore. And I read that the first time when I was younger and I was like,

01:12:45.160 that's a, you know, not a really great ending. And I'm just like, yes, this is what we all want

01:12:48.800 living through the living group what grace is living through it's like yes all we want is just

01:12:53.180 to like live in a little house and live a soft life and that is effectively what grace does

01:12:58.080 like yeah yeah she's living her best hunger games epilogue life exactly like remember her daughter

01:13:05.720 Georgiana was being raised by Chumlee back in England um and so she's grace wants to go back

01:13:12.680 there and see her um eventually she is given uh it's called an annuity from prinny which is just

01:13:18.740 kind of like thanks for services rendered like here's your like pension for having been my

01:13:23.020 mistress um she's like peace great and so it seems like part of the the guidelines of that

01:13:32.160 sort of like NDA adjacent it's like but please don't live in England anymore so she goes back

01:13:37.160 to France which at this point Napoleon has taken over and like the revolution's certainly not

01:13:42.540 happening anymore so she's just like she's got friends there she's having she like her whole

01:13:49.020 life like she just depends on rich men to pay for her and as she's getting older you know like that 0.94

01:13:54.700 becomes more of a requirement because she's maybe not winning over as many new admirers but chumlee 0.99

01:13:59.820 is still there for her right um and then she ends up well prinny as is his wand stops paying this 0.99

01:14:07.120 pension to her because he sucks does that to most of his mistresses and actually side note so we 0.86

01:14:14.240 talked about his mistress from earlier um perdita aka mary robinson so he had sent all these letters 0.99

01:14:19.160 being like be my mistress i'll pay you all this money so mary robinson left her husband to be with

01:14:23.120 and then when he dumped her mary robinson was like i'm gonna publish these letters if you don't give 1.00

01:14:27.680 me a payment i love that i love a good letter blackmail like it's so good it's just like she

01:14:35.940 saved all those letters because she knew this was going to happen eventually yeah so at this point

01:14:41.740 um she comes back to england grace so at this point she is reliant on her aunt who is named

01:14:49.260 janet um and she also had a friend who we're going to talk about in a later episode lady

01:14:54.340 warsley seymour fleming the scandalous lady w by who who wrote that one oh hallie rubenhold

01:15:04.200 yes we're mutual fans of of hallie rubenhold friend of the podcast hallie rubenhold that's

01:15:10.840 right um so she and grace had like they had been friends for quite a while anyway so she's back in

01:15:16.240 england and she gets to like reconnect with her family like the dalrymples dally the tall gets

01:15:20.620 to see the other dally the tall but basically she's with her aunt um i think her aunt janet

01:15:27.480 she like she really won herself she went to be with her elderly aunt and she's helping on so

01:15:33.500 the aunt is like, guess what? You're my heir now. So it's like, great. Like, so she knows she's

01:15:37.000 going to like have some money. She'll be taken care of. So she's writing her memoir at this

01:15:40.880 point about like my time in the French revolution, because I think she's just kind of like, I need

01:15:44.720 money. Like I lived through all this shit. Like I'll write a book about it. But at this point, 0.99

01:15:50.460 the three exiled sons of Ryan Phillippe show up in town. And so they're like, can we hide out with

01:15:56.840 you? We heard you do that. So she's kind of like, you know, the French revolution era is like never

01:16:02.060 quite that's right from her life i never got rid of my panic rooms like i have always had at least

01:16:08.780 a half dozen panic room like aristocratic panic rooms in every house i have these like fake 0.75

01:16:15.000 mattresses with like a little person-shaped hole in them like come in it's fine so she's back there

01:16:21.420 eventually i haven't had this segment in my podcast for a while in this regency era but

01:16:26.440 it's called caroline's corner where we talk about the connections between the person we're talking

01:16:30.000 about in carolina brunswick okay and what happened is that um grace's daughter georgiana

01:16:35.320 because she is the ultimate daughter of the prince of wales like she has various opportunities

01:16:40.400 presented to her in society and one of them is she becomes a lady in waiting to carolina brunswick 0.99

01:16:45.220 hell yeah there you go so and carolina brunswick who would have known like carolina brunswick as

01:16:52.100 you will know when you read my book rebel of the regency she was a very maternal figure she loved

01:16:57.560 caring for children and like being sort of a mentor to people and so I think the fact that

01:17:03.100 like this was her estranged husband's illegitimate daughter like I think she probably would have

01:17:07.280 known she would have known Georgiana's parentage and I think she would have been very nice to her

01:17:11.760 and taken her because she was similar age to Caroline Brunswick's own daughter like I think 0.95

01:17:16.220 that was probably like a nice situation eventually Georgiana she finds herself a good marriage 0.99

01:17:23.000 she gets married um and some other grace's friends like from back in the day like name her

01:17:28.740 their heir like the duke of queensberry who was like a major figure i think he invented boxing

01:17:35.780 rules it's like the duke of queensberry's rules oh anyway so he when he died he left a bunch of

01:17:42.200 money to her as well as to some other people including the chevalier day on oh also in my

01:17:48.700 season i'm doing we haven't mentioned this but i'm doing a season on spies um on the art of crime

01:17:54.680 and the chevalier dion is is in it yeah so i love that the queensberry was just like gave money to

01:18:00.940 kind of all the cool people like love that film like the end of grace's story like as told by

01:18:06.920 like she wrote her memoir and that's what what you've read that's what people should read but

01:18:10.660 if you want to see what happened to her later like i read this other book about an infamous mistress

01:18:14.500 and it's just a lot of like various people die various people leave for money but then the people

01:18:20.220 then someone contests the will so then she doesn't get the money it's just like a lot of like that's

01:18:25.520 what the later part of her life seems to entail a lot of um court cases but i like this this

01:18:31.280 description of somebody who saw grace as a as an older woman described her as a tall handsome

01:18:36.300 much rouged old lady oh much rouged dressed in white muslin draperies love it it's still looking

01:18:46.780 good yeah i love it i love it it's sort of like oh what's the thing with like little edie

01:18:52.480 um gray gardens it's giving me gray gardens anyway so her daughter georgiana she um was

01:18:58.860 married she got a good marriage you know she debuted and like we're in the regency era for

01:19:03.500 the record like 1811 like this is the actual regency era and grace is still there but she's

01:19:09.520 just like again living her soft hunger games life which must have possible like she lived through 0.95

01:19:13.500 enough shit like i all i want is for her to just sit around having a nice time writing her memoirs 0.96

01:19:18.720 her daughter had a daughter um who she named also georgiana um but this is how grace there are 1.00

01:19:27.840 descendants today of grace dollar and poll elliott through her daughter which i guess would also be

01:19:33.420 descendants of prinny or chumley possibly yeah other guys i don't know anyway her daughter

01:19:40.420 pre-deceased her so it was a weird it not a lot of details about this but her daughter had a child

01:19:48.200 was pregnant again and then while heavily pregnant had a fall that injured her spine

01:19:54.640 and then she died ah did did grace elliot ever have any other children no just the one daughter

01:20:02.180 i wonder how she managed that well if you read my book rebel of the regency i do have part of the

01:20:09.000 book where i talk about contraception i do i do but it's true like grace elliott was having all

01:20:16.100 these affairs with all these people and if she i don't know if there's different herbs and things

01:20:20.340 you can do um a lot of these men these lords like they knew about they're kind of these like

01:20:25.520 reusable condoms you could have that you like tie at the top with a ribbon which didn't help

01:20:29.540 against disease but did help prevent pregnancy and there was various abortion options so

01:20:35.780 her daughter died the the child she's carrying died and so grace outlived her child she's still

01:20:42.300 she's still in it just a lot of money-based things are happening she she had invested in the stock 0.56

01:20:50.920 market she's able to cash out some bonds she had invested like she was doing what a woman could for

01:20:56.220 herself in this situation like she'd always been dependent on men to help her out and then she kind 0.83

01:21:00.180 of got some inheritances but she's trying she handled her money better than a lot of other

01:21:04.180 people we've talked about on this podcast who like Georgiana the Duchess of Devonshire who is just

01:21:08.820 wildly in debt constantly but she did get to spend time with her granddaughter Georgiana part two 0.94

01:21:17.200 who I feel like the Chumleys might have also raised or something like that anyway so Grace

01:21:22.420 down from elliot she dies may 15 1823 she was back in france at this point so she kind of went

01:21:28.860 to spend her like you know retiree era back at one of these houses she had access to in france

01:21:34.920 and her death was registered the following day as uh georgette dalrymple born in scotland

01:21:42.080 widow elliot is how she was remembered there you go which is like out of all the men in her life

01:21:49.900 elliot this husband it's like i forgot he was even there yeah yeah she had so little to do with him

01:21:56.380 i mean he's like enough i mean why would you remember him when she's like going to bed with 0.74

01:22:02.020 the prince of wales and the duke of orleans it's like yeah she she honestly moved up in the world

01:22:09.060 yeah after he broke up with her but just the fact that she's like oh the widow elliot i mean she

01:22:13.200 made it all the way to the top right i mean she made it all the way to the top can't go higher

01:22:17.920 really so as you know gavin on my podcast of course four people in four different categories

01:22:24.280 um and what you may not know is that this season the regency era so like i'm giving a score to all

01:22:29.620 the these biographical episodes in these four categories and then at the end of the season

01:22:33.160 like i'm bridgerton i'm gonna have like an audience vote for who is the diamond of the season

01:22:37.640 so everybody gets their scores from the episodes but then there's going to be sort of like a public

01:22:42.300 vote and then we'll like combine them like i'm dancing with the stars to see love it who will

01:22:47.060 the diamond of the season so grace elliott like she lived through the regency era she

01:22:51.700 and the french revolution she was the mistress to the regent and so on a scale of zero to ten

01:23:00.920 the first category um scandaliciousness and this is it's not just like what do we think now but

01:23:08.580 like what did people think then and i feel like the fact that she was divorced by her husband

01:23:12.620 yeah and then she became a mistress to the prince may have had an illegitimate child by

01:23:19.800 prince of wales like pretty scandalous like at once like totally expected and yet also scandalous 0.99

01:23:27.140 yeah like i feel like people like you know she was she could go to the parties but she wasn't

01:23:33.580 like no one would be like oh i want my son to marry her it's like she was a scandalous person 0.92

01:23:38.780 people loved it it was a kind of scandal that was seductive right i mean to a certain set

01:23:44.500 yeah exactly it's kind of like accepted to be that level of scandalousness but then

01:23:49.900 in the french revolution like her espionage era is like literal scandal right right i mean she's 0.57

01:23:55.360 yeah so i feel like she has a score pretty high right like but who's a 10 on scandalousness like

01:24:03.700 what what is a 10 a 10 on skandaliciousness i feel like if she had murdered somebody 0.94

01:24:08.720 in addition to everything else like a skandaliciousness would be somebody who like

01:24:13.080 um i'm trying to think of someone who you might know um you know like lola montez or somebody who

01:24:20.140 just like i'm scrolling i'm scrolling we gave madame tussaud a three yeah yeah not high school

01:24:28.740 i would say for for like grace elliott it feels like maybe like a seven or eight right i would

01:24:34.820 say most of the sort of courtesan type people have a pretty high score in this i'm gonna say 0.69

01:24:38.400 an eight for scandalousness because between the like public affair of the divorce you know like

01:24:44.760 that ruined her name was literally a scandal having a legitimate child with the prince of wales

01:24:49.640 um and then just the spy stuff i think yeah i don't know how she's gonna score in other areas 1.00

01:24:55.060 but i think scandalousness is she's got it she's got it she's an infamous mistress 0.58

01:24:59.620 exactly exactly like if that's the title of your biography i mean you gotta come by that honestly 0.65

01:25:06.660 and grace elliott certainly does yes for the next category again a zero to ten score and it's

01:25:12.760 scheminess scheming okay i mean i mean it's like nine or ten right i mean i think it's like both

01:25:20.440 like the literal schemes of her like espionage era like the mattress scenario like she came up

01:25:31.400 with lots of plans like that she was sending these letters and stuff but then also just the

01:25:35.040 scheminess of like being a woman in her situation finding ways to like thrive yeah totally like

01:25:40.180 figuring out how to to live the life of luxury she wanted when she couldn't work herself when

01:25:46.860 her name was ruined yeah i mean even just like the the the pivoting like when she's there with 0.93

01:25:53.360 the guy and she's like okay we're gonna we need to flee paris we're gonna climb the wall damn it

01:25:57.660 we can't climb the wall we're gonna go to my house wait we're gonna like i think when called

01:26:02.840 upon her scheminess i'm gonna like i feel like a 10 i feel like i feel like 10 too i'm just always

01:26:09.360 wary of like you know giving the 10 but i feel like she totally has earned it i feel like she

01:26:14.480 earned the perfect score the number of schemes um and kind of the the bugs bunnyness of some

01:26:21.820 like that's more charming to me like you can picture her like sawing a hole in the floor like

01:26:28.200 it's just so like preposterous but like yeah um okay the next the next category is her

01:26:37.300 significance brackets to history and i think as a memoirist yeah that's where i feel like her

01:26:46.000 significance is like i was gonna say i mean her journal is considered one of the most important

01:26:53.200 english language eyewitness accounts of the reign of terror like it if you haven't studied

01:26:58.820 the french revolution like you probably wouldn't have heard of her but for those who for people

01:27:04.660 who do look at this period of history like yeah it you know her writing is considered really

01:27:09.700 important and i think oh it's mostly her her memoirs like her her actions you know like she

01:27:17.060 personally saved clearly several people like she helped convey some letters back and forth you know

01:27:22.800 like we don't know the ripple effects of all that stuff but i think just her recording of what

01:27:27.560 happened like no one else in her situation wrote so candidly yeah i'm gonna counterbalance that

01:27:34.080 though with sort of like the fact that you don't really hear about her unless you're starting the

01:27:37.960 french revolution like there's not there's not statues of her there is there is i will say there's

01:27:43.060 one movie it's called there's a movie the lady and the duke and it's like about her and ryan

01:27:48.040 philippine yeah and what i know about this movie is it's french and when it if you make a movie

01:27:55.120 about the french revolution and you're in france and you don't side with the revolutionaries then

01:28:00.480 people will riot how dare you suggest that the revolutionaries were anything other than correct

01:28:09.140 and i think this movie really does try to portray how she talks about just like the brutality of it

01:28:15.800 all and i think it debuted a con or something and there was like i think a riot which is like

01:28:20.120 you're kind of proving the point here people of france right i i think i read about this too

01:28:25.440 they saw it as like royalist propaganda basically yeah yeah so i don't know for significance for me

01:28:33.580 i'm feeling like a like a six or seven or maybe should it go lower i don't know i mean again like

01:28:40.920 her journal is it's really important as a document her journal is really important as a document i

01:28:46.620 think the fact that she pops up like just in my research of carolina brunswick who we read about

01:28:51.900 it in my book, Rebel of the Regency. Like, I don't know the actual check right now. I don't

01:28:57.440 think she's in the index of my book. I'm just checking one sec. Because I was looking at people

01:29:03.240 of the time who were writing about stuff and I just don't remember. Oh, she's in. Yes. She's in

01:29:09.640 the index, but just in the context of the affair with printing and her. There you go. But I feel

01:29:15.600 like any book about this era, she's going to be in the index. Like I feel she was just like always

01:29:20.540 there i think i think anyone who finds out about her will be fascinated about her and can like

01:29:25.560 work in a line you know in a book like she gets a few sentences she was just like a significant 0.80

01:29:31.020 person and the fact that she was like yeah she was upper class etc but a lot of people were she

01:29:35.540 was like the daughter like the abandoned daughter of an edinburgh lawyer and she like was she was

01:29:42.740 like the Forrest Gump of this era she was like every significant thing I am gonna say 6.5 okay

01:29:51.300 I like it I like it and then the final category just to explain to listeners who may not know

01:29:57.100 and to you as a reminder so it's what we call the sexism bonus and this is where this category is

01:30:02.600 mostly there for people who maybe don't score highly in the other categories but that's because

01:30:06.880 of the patriarchy they weren't able to really thrive and do what they wanted so this is a way

01:30:11.200 to give them points um in terms of sexism like how much did this get in grace's way i feel like 0.99

01:30:16.700 it certainly did but she pivoted and like figured out how to make it work for her like she became 1.00

01:30:22.520 this fallen woman right but then she became a courtesan and like she could not have found more 1.00

01:30:27.100 powerful people to be the mistress of like yeah i don't think she had a child but that 1.00

01:30:33.560 clearly didn't stop her and her ascent like there's other people who like they marry and 1.00

01:30:40.640 their husband is terrible and then they just have you know baby after baby and they're not able to

01:30:44.920 pursue their dream of you know being a scientist or whatever but like nothing really stopped her

01:30:49.860 nothing stopped her i mean she she was like bad-mouthed in the press over and over again

01:30:55.300 you know i mean her her reputation did take a serious hit because of the criminal conversation

01:31:02.440 situation so i feel like yes she was able to rise pretty much as high as she possibly could have

01:31:10.460 but i also do feel like she's not like a zero or one i feel like she did contend with some you know 0.99

01:31:16.520 with some sexism it's like in her case it was really sort of like slut shaming type yeah how 0.99

01:31:21.880 dare this woman have affairs or how dare this woman be a mistress it's like well they were 0.98

01:31:27.000 literally cheating on each other at the same time yeah yeah so the double standard of that like i

01:31:32.840 think for sure like the way that she was dumped um it's a tricky category for i'm just gonna say

01:31:37.620 what about five you know five sounds fair to me like i feel like any higher than five would not

01:31:43.520 be right yeah so this gives her a final score of 29.5 and let me see i'm just looking up if you

01:31:52.940 want to see the whole scale you or listeners or anyone if you go to vulgarhistory.com there's like

01:31:57.320 this the full scale of all the people we've ever judged is there 29 is certainly in the highest

01:32:03.220 echelon of people um mary shelley has a 29 um let me see who else there's claire claremont

01:32:12.200 mary shelley's sister has 29.5 so i think this is a good neighborhood i would put her in i think

01:32:19.520 all of them would get along she was like one generation older than mary shelley and claire

01:32:23.420 claremont but i think it's kind of like wasn't yeah mary shelley didn't she go over to cover

01:32:30.000 the french revolution mary shelley's mom went over to paris during the french revolution to chase

01:32:41.180 after a man yeah that she wanted to be with and it was a similar thing to grace it would no well

01:32:47.460 similar to grace dalrymple elliott in the sense of like going to paris in 1792 is like a bananas

01:32:53.380 decision yeah yeah um for like north korea like let's just go you know yeah yeah over there yeah

01:33:02.180 like mary wilson craft knew what she was getting into and she was on the side of the revolutionaries

01:33:07.620 she's like i want to be there to watch this like beautiful thing unfurl and she got there and she's

01:33:11.280 like ah rivers of blood like yeah yeah yeah that's what it looks like mary wilson craft is a 32 for 1.00

01:33:16.760 the record okay yeah that's cool she i think she had a much more of a sexism angle to her story 1.00

01:33:23.660 because she as a lower class person to grace like the struggles she had about having children and 0.94

01:33:30.360 stuff just like really fucked up her life a way that uh grace didn't like having i think when 0.70

01:33:36.760 you have an illegitimate child and the father is the prince of wales yeah it doesn't fuck up your 0.78

01:33:41.380 life as much as having an illegitimate child and the father is just some guy some dude basically

01:33:46.600 oh no but she's 29.5 just making sure i put her appropriately this list is like getting very 0.94

01:33:51.900 unwieldy 29.5 so exactly the same as claire claremont um interestingly lady jane gray has a 29.5

01:34:01.160 um some other french revolutionary people olympe de gouge 29.5 love her yes and then another spy

01:34:11.360 i don't know if you know about her etta palm de alders is she where is she from she's uh the

01:34:18.100 netherlands yes i listened i actually listened to your episode about her yes yeah because that's

01:34:22.580 that's some spy spy i was like oh spy yeah yeah so grace don't know elliot she's hanging out with

01:34:28.280 like the other french revolutionary lady spy type people i think that's a that's seems like they're

01:34:33.020 they would get along i'm sure i think yeah come over and hide in my panic room it would be like

01:34:39.540 the game like a game recognizes game situation right like yeah and i think as much as like the

01:34:46.360 press played up the grace elliott versus perdita rivalry like i feel like she was a girl's girl 0.53

01:34:51.320 as well like i don't think she was ever jealous of other women who are mistresses of people it's

01:34:57.800 just like well the guy i was with chose a new mistress okay that's fine like i don't i feel

01:35:01.800 like she was chill about stuff which i appreciate yeah um gavin thank you so much for joining me

01:35:09.000 Tell everybody about your exciting podcast project that is available now.

01:35:14.940 Yes, it is available now.

01:35:16.520 I've been working on it for a long time, but February is Black History Month, and this 0.95

01:35:21.740 project is suitable for such a month.

01:35:23.900 So it's called Raven, and it is about an unforgettable man with an unforgettable name,

01:35:29.520 Raven Chanticleer.

01:35:31.380 He was not a contestant on RuPaul's Drag Race, in case you were wondering, but he's

01:35:36.700 this amazing figure who moved to new york in the 50s he was born in 1928 completely reinvented

01:35:43.480 himself uh became a multi-talented artist just did everything you can imagine and uh for 30 years he

01:35:50.360 had a very unusual dream of opening his very own wax museum devoted to black history and after three

01:35:58.040 decades he finally fulfilled that dream and opened it in harlem obviously the kind of uh capital of

01:36:04.920 Black America, you might say. So the African American Wax Museum, as it's called, gets all

01:36:10.280 kinds of attention. It's written about in the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Billage Voice,

01:36:13.660 et cetera, et cetera. In 2002, Raven dies and his family members disregard his dying wishes

01:36:21.160 to keep the museum open and gut it, sell the property, and rumor circulates that they're

01:36:29.580 going to destroy all of his wax figures that he made himself. So various community members in

01:36:35.760 Harlem get very angry and try to intervene to no avail. It's believed that all of Raven's wax

01:36:43.500 figures are trashed by the family by 2010, except, plot twist, that is not true. And I've been

01:36:51.460 reconstructing what happened to this amazingly unusual, unforgettable museum in New York.

01:36:58.480 So Raven is part character study.

01:37:00.480 It looks at this guy, Raven Chanticleer,

01:37:02.760 who is a volume 11 personality.

01:37:04.680 And it's also part detective story,

01:37:07.100 trying to work out what happened

01:37:08.760 to some of Raven's wax figures

01:37:10.720 that miraculously survived.

01:37:12.120 So it's kind of like, I would say,

01:37:13.660 S-Town, Serial, This American Life,

01:37:15.740 sort of in that vein.

01:37:17.340 Yeah.

01:37:17.900 So if you're interested, you should listen to it.

01:37:20.180 Again, it's called Raven.

01:37:22.680 And this is available.

01:37:24.380 I mean, are all the, is it like a weekly drop

01:37:26.740 or like all the episodes come out all at once?

01:37:28.620 What's your strategy?

01:37:29.940 It's going to drop weekly

01:37:31.420 and there are five episodes at this point.

01:37:34.620 I can't wait.

01:37:35.300 This is such a fascinating thing.

01:37:36.780 I mean, you know,

01:37:38.480 you and I talked before about Madame Tussauds

01:37:39.880 and like wax figures.

01:37:41.140 Like I think does anyone

01:37:41.900 who starts a wax figure museum

01:37:43.820 is just like an interesting person

01:37:45.440 I want to know more about?

01:37:46.680 Yes, yes.

01:37:47.720 It's a bizarre, it's a strange,

01:37:49.240 like it's like an unusual dream.

01:37:52.720 Yeah, if that's your dream,

01:37:54.140 then I'm like, you're an interesting person

01:37:55.480 and you deserve a five-part podcast yes exactly that's fantastic so raven everybody listen for

01:38:01.560 that raven i don't know if i mentioned i have a book it's called rebel of the regency um

01:38:06.900 grace delremple elliot is mentioned on pages 23 and 24

01:38:10.320 um so you can you can see her her there in my book as well anyway thank you so much gavin

01:38:18.760 and so raven is like that's what you're you know that's just happening right now but then your

01:38:23.660 ongoing podcast series is The Art of Crime, which people can also find.

01:38:27.780 Yep. The Art of Crime, doing spies this season, a lot of really cool female spies on the show. So 0.51

01:38:34.820 I think fans of Vulgar History might be able to get into it. In fact, there might be a very

01:38:39.620 special guest in one episode who also hosts Vulgar History, maybe.

01:38:44.760 That sounds like a guest that I would love to hear what that person had to play about. 1.00

01:38:49.100 Various lady spies. I think that's worth listening to. 0.88

01:38:51.540 thank you so much gavin it's always such a treat to talk to you and i mean like grace like what a

01:38:58.400 character like i love it's been a great conversation and i love i love letting people

01:39:03.180 know about her because more people should ditto thank you for having me on

01:39:07.280 so i have a few things to remind you about firstly go listen to gavin's miniseries

01:39:15.280 podcast miniseries raven which is available wherever you get your podcasts and also if

01:39:20.100 just love hearing his voice. Listen to episodes of his podcast, The Art of Crime, which is also

01:39:25.260 available wherever you get podcasts. I wrote a book. It's called Rebel of the Regency,

01:39:30.140 a scandalous saga of Carolina Brunswick, Britain's Uncrowned Queen. It is now available. It's out

01:39:35.340 there. It's out in the world. I've been so excited to see people sending me pictures of you with the

01:39:39.640 book or the book in bookstore windows. Keep sending me those pictures. It makes me so happy.

01:39:44.040 Groups of people having a book club meeting about it. I'm just so delighted that you're all

01:39:48.580 embracing this book and really supporting this book and Carolina Brunswick, who so many people

01:39:54.600 will now know her story. And that that's what it's all about for me, just because everybody should

01:39:59.700 anyway, and everybody should hate her husband, Prinney, which more and more people will.

01:40:04.580 So because my book has just been published, I'm like doing a little mini book tour. So my next

01:40:10.180 stop is I'm going to be on Friday, February 27th. I'll be in Vancouver, British Columbia

01:40:15.340 at iron dog books. And I can't wait to see a bunch of you there. I'll do the event. And then

01:40:21.260 we're going to be having an after party afterwards as well. So more information about that coming

01:40:26.200 soon. But so to RSVP for this event, which is free, but iron dog books just loves the RSVP

01:40:32.300 because they know how many chairs to set up. So you can get the information about that.

01:40:36.140 Vancouver appearance, February 27th at rebel of the regency.com and then click on events and all

01:40:42.220 the information is there. And I'm so excited to say that my next stop after that is I'm coming to

01:40:48.100 London, England, which is going to be really fun to go back there and see a bunch of sites I've

01:40:55.300 planned to see. But one of the sites I want to see is all of you. So I'll be having an event

01:40:59.060 details TBD. I don't know exactly where we're going to be. That depends on how many of you

01:41:03.720 are coming. It's going to be on Sunday, March 15th. So if you're going to be in or around London,

01:41:09.800 England, please, please, please RSVP to me so I can see how many people are coming and make a plan

01:41:15.180 of what is a good place for us all to meet. And the RSVP for the London event will be vulgarhistory.com

01:41:21.280 slash RSVP. And I'm so excited to be going there to a place where Carolina Brunswick

01:41:27.060 once lived. And I'm excited to hang out with all the people who will be able to come to that event

01:41:34.120 as well and so next week um there'll be another episode of vulgar history i'm never not releasing

01:41:40.440 episodes as you all know just double checking what the next episode is because i don't want

01:41:45.740 to lie to you so yeah we're staying within the regency era next week is another iconic iconic

01:41:52.460 woman from the regency era who may or may not have heard of before but you're never going to forget

01:41:58.140 her story once you hear it. And until next time, all my friends, keep your pants on and your tits 1.00

01:42:05.040 out. Vulgar History is researched, scripted, and hosted by Anne Foster. Editor is Christina 1.00

01:42:12.120 Lumagi. Theme music is by The Severn Duo. Regency era artwork by Karen Moynihan. Social media videos

01:42:18.660 by Magdalena Denson. Transcripts of this podcast are available at vulgarhistory.com by Aveline

01:42:24.020 Malik. You can get early ad-free

01:42:26.140 episodes of Vulgar History by becoming a

01:42:28.080 paid member of our Patreon at patreon.com

01:42:30.460 slash annfosterwriter.

01:42:32.440 Vulgar History merchandise is available

01:42:34.100 at vulgarhistory.com slash store

01:42:36.220 for Americans, and at vulgarhistory.redbubble.com

01:42:39.600 for everyone else. Follow us on social media

01:42:42.080 at vulgarhistorypod. Get in touch with me

01:42:44.280 at vulgarhistorypod at gmail.com.

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Vulgar History - February 25, 2026

Regency Era Spy Grace Dalrymple Elliott

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Transcript