00:00:45.420hello and welcome to vulgar history of feminist women's history comedy podcast my name is ann
00:01:02.820foster and this is ann's version where for the last couple weeks and for the next couple weeks
00:01:08.980i'm revisiting some classic episodes of the podcast which are now remastered not re-recorded
00:01:14.280but just Christina Lumagi, who has been our amazing editor for quite a while, but was not
00:01:18.860around when I was recording the first season, you know, and I was figuring out how the podcast
00:01:23.040worked. Anyway, she's been cleaning up the audio to make it a bit more pleasant for you to listen
00:01:27.000to. And also it gives me the opportunity to revisit some of these stories. And I'm really,
00:01:31.680I really, I'm content with the episodes, like the people who I profiled in the first season
00:01:36.240of this podcast. I think it really set the tone for what this podcast is about and the kinds of
00:01:40.960stories we're going to tell, which is lesser known people from history, but of a scandalous
00:01:47.320nature, like people who are adjacent to maybe better known stories. And I think Jeanne de
00:01:51.640Lamotte is such a good example of that. So I first heard about Jeanne de Lamotte. I might say this in
00:01:56.540the episode as well, but there's a podcast that I love. And I also have a website and Instagram
00:02:00.940called Frock Flicks, where it's people who are so knowledgeable about historical costuming and
00:02:08.320they give reviews of different movies and they kind of critique how accurate they are or not.
00:02:14.480And just in the course of one of those, they mentioned that the wigs were really good in a
00:02:17.980movie called The Affair of the Necklace starring Hilary Swank. And I was like, well, what's The
00:02:21.840Affair of the Necklace? And then I looked up what the story was. And that is how I came across this
00:02:25.900book that's called How to Ruin a Queen, Marie Antoinette and the Diamond Necklace Affair by
00:02:29.680Jonathan Beckman. I think it might be out of print, but you can still get it used or you can
00:02:33.320get an ebook of it. It's really readable. I've read it more than once. It's such a good story.
00:02:36.880And that's where I just really love the story of Jean de Lamont, this grifter. She really set the scene for, in terms of vulgar history and just sort of setting the template, you know, Carolina Brunswick is there as this kind of scandalous British royal family adjacent person. Francis Howard is, of course, our tits out icon.0.58
00:02:54.580And Jean de Lamont really, I think she had the scene for later episodes about people like Catalina de Arauzo and Lola Montez, just these kind of grifters who were maybe born not super well off and then just through force of will and just their dirtbag ways just kind of like became notorious.0.92
00:03:12.980She's also, her story has got other things we like to talk about, like pamphlets.
00:03:16.480Anyway, please enjoy this episode about Jean de Lamont, and I'll pop on afterwards to give
00:03:23.000you a bit more, just more thoughts about this story and about vulgar history and some clues
00:03:28.620as to what the next major vulgar history season is going to be about.
00:03:33.480So enjoy past me telling you this story.
00:03:44.540My name is Anne Foster, and this is a feminist women's history comedy podcast.
00:03:49.940For this, the inaugural season of this podcast, where I'm kind of figuring out what I'm doing,
00:03:56.300and you're kind of figuring out what I'm doing, and we're all just sort of having a nice time
00:04:00.180figuring this all out, because I'm just a woman in Saskatoon, sitting in my apartment with a
00:04:07.560microphone. Anyway, that's all the more time for me to tell stories to you. And so thus far,
00:04:13.680In this season, we've been looking at women who, quote unquote, misbehaved, because inspired by the famous quote by Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, well-behaved women seldom make history. We're looking at women who made history because they did not, quote unquote, behave well in various different ways.
00:04:33.680and we've looked at women whose personality just sort of like bucked against the societal
00:04:37.340expectations and what people thought a princess should be like. We've looked at women who just
00:04:43.380live tits out and did a body swap to avoid anyone finding out that she was not a virgin and then1.00
00:04:49.320killed a man and then admitted to it. And both of those women were from noble families. And today0.99
00:04:56.160we're looking at another woman who was sort of from a noble family, but basically was a regular
00:05:02.820everyday lady and that's what i really wanted to get to a story like this early on in the show just
00:05:09.060to establish we're not talking about just royals we're not talking about just rich people it just
00:05:14.500so happens that if you're looking at what women in history have been written about they tend to be
00:05:20.260rich people and royals because other women just no one thought were interesting enough to write0.95
00:05:27.100anything about which is tragic and that's why one day when i get a time machine i want to go back
00:05:32.460and just hang out and see what life was like for the everyday people. Anyway, today we are
00:05:39.740looking at a woman whose full name is Jeanne de Valois Saint-Remy. Then she got married and she
00:05:46.960became Jeanne Comtesse de la Motte. We're just going to call her Jeanne with my Canadian French
00:05:54.700accent. Basically, she was descended from the bastard son of a French royal. So she had like0.98
00:06:04.540that slight royal lineage, but the French royals had a lot of illegitimate children. So it didn't
00:06:11.880really do much for her. So basically, she was descended from the Valois family who were the
00:06:18.580rulers of France for a while. And we're going to look at some other members of the Valois family,
00:06:22.740perhaps in another episode. But basically, her great-grandfather was the ultimate son
00:06:29.640of the French king, Henry II. Because of these sort of royal roots, they had sort of an allowance
00:06:37.560that the royal family gave to everybody who was sort of like a descendant of a descendant
00:06:41.840of a French bastard, which is like great, but also not so great because it was not
00:06:48.240super a lot of money. So Jeanne and her sister were both sent off to convent school. And the0.98
00:06:56.080plan for them was to become a nun. But as we shall see, that did not suit Jeanne's personality0.86
00:07:02.080whatsoever. Although she might have found her way to do lots of cool stuff as a nun as well. But
00:07:09.300basically, she liked stuff. She liked jewels, and she liked wealth, and she liked gorgeous outfits.
00:07:16.520And because this was, what year was she born? She was born in 1756. So this is like edging up on like French Revolution era slash Marie Antoinette slash like she likes the big wigs, the hats, like she just, she was somebody who was living in a material world.
00:07:36.100and she was a material girl but she did not have very much money but what she had was
00:07:41.000ambition so after she basically left nunnery school decided that wasn't for her she went
00:07:47.660to stay with a family friend and then became pregnant with twins which is just like oh if
00:07:53.960you're pregnant with twins and it's like the end of the 18th century you just hope you don't die
00:07:59.140in childbirth basically she did not and like a couple months before she gave birth or no a month
00:08:04.080before she gave birth. She got married to a man who was the nephew of the family she was staying
00:08:08.340with. So she was married before she had the baby. She had baby twins, but they both died very,
00:08:15.800very young because infant mortality was pretty considerable then. And that did not stop her.
00:08:22.680So basically her husband was a man named Nicolas de Lamotte, who he called himself the Comte de
00:08:28.780Lamont, which is basically, I think, sort of a made up title that he just sort of called himself
00:08:35.800because he wanted to sound impressive. But actually, he was just pretty boring and useless.0.99
00:08:40.780And John, I'm guessing, again, she might have married him because of the whole pregnant with0.98
00:08:46.200twins situation. The world society she was living in, she had to marry the father of the twins or0.67
00:08:51.600someone. Anyway, so she was not super into him because he was useless. And she was just getting0.99
00:08:57.160started living this amazing life that you're going to learn about. So she not only liked
00:09:02.180glamour and jewels and dresses and giant wigs, but she also sort of felt that they were owed to her
00:09:09.120because her family was descended from this illegitimate royal family member and before
00:09:16.180that from an actual royal family member. So she just kind of saw, you know, Marie Antoinette
00:09:20.040hanging out and felt like that should be me. I should, I should be able to live this fancy,
00:09:25.560amazing life like she is leaving so basically she decided she wanted to get some more money0.99
00:09:31.700she wanted to get an increase in the allowance that she got as a descendant of a descendant
00:09:36.320of a descendant and she's like okay i mean she who can she ask to give her this money that would
00:09:42.440actually give her this money when the french royal family was like paying this money to all
00:09:46.480these people and didn't have a lot to spare at the moment and so she thought what she's going
00:09:52.220to do is talk directly to Marie Antoinette, like girl to girl, just be like, Hey, we're both like
00:09:58.240glamorous, amazing women. You get me Marie Antoinette. Like, can you please see about
00:10:04.560getting me more allowance money? And so the thing is at the time, and I don't know all the details
00:10:11.020about how this whole situation goes, but it seems like anyone who's like dressed nicely enough
00:10:15.800could just like go to Versailles, which was where the French royal family lived, just go in there
00:10:21.520and hang out which is like a pretty nice rule so she figured she would just dress up nicely
00:10:26.860go to Versailles you know accidentally on purpose run to Marie Antoinette and be like hey can I get1.00
00:10:32.520some more allowance money from you but Marie Antoinette had heard about Jeanne knew that she1.00
00:10:38.920was sort of this like notorious sort of con artist type person and knew to basically avoid her
00:10:46.800Meanwhile, in another part of Versailles, there was a man named Cardinal de Rohan,
00:10:51.780who was basically on the outs with Marie Antoinette because he was obsessed with her and gross.
00:10:59.520He tried to stop her from marrying her husband, Louis XVI.
00:11:04.320And basically, she had kicked him out of court because he was gross and obsessed with her.
00:11:09.900And he would do anything to win her affection back, basically.
00:11:15.540remember that name basically jean was like okay i can't get in to see marie antoinette but i need
00:11:21.720to just figure out what's going on around court learn what the goss is and find a way that i can
00:11:26.540i can get close to marie antoinette and get this money or find another way to get money
00:11:31.180in the meantime jean took a lover who is a famous gigolo named reto de villette and she also became
00:11:40.820the lover of Cardinal de Rohan so she's married took two lovers do it yes just live your life
00:11:48.620and so spending time with Rohan she like quickly learned like he's obsessed with Marie Antoinette0.59
00:11:53.700and just like really wants to be friends with her again so Jean was like hmm what a crazy
00:12:01.300coincidence I happen to be totally great friends with Marie Antoinette you know just a relative
00:12:06.880etc um and if you want i can like put in a good word for you if you cardinal rohan pay me jean
00:12:14.340just like lots of money and jewels and rohan basically did i mean he gave her money and
00:12:20.580jewels and she pretended that she was putting a good word with marie internet but she wasn't
00:12:25.280actually doing that and this is just kind of like a way for her to get money and jewels because she1.00
00:12:28.720is all about that luxury lifestyle. And then the necklace. So I'm going to post a picture of the1.00
00:12:36.960necklace on the Instagram, which is vulgar history pod at Instagram, just so you can understand
00:12:43.160what I'm talking about. It is the ugliest necklace in the history of, okay, like I'm just,
00:12:54.220I'll describe it to you, but like, just go to the Instagram to see this picture. So meanwhile,
00:13:00.640in another part of France, two jewelry makers had made the most expensive necklace in the history
00:13:07.520of jewelry. And it was also, I would say the ugliest necklace in the history of jewelry.
00:13:15.520These two men had made it because they had hoped that the previous King's mistress,
00:13:20.780So, not Marie Antoinette's husband, Marie Antoinette's father-in-law's mistress, who is a woman named Madame DuBerry, who we will talk about on another podcast, almost definitely.
00:13:32.520Basically, these jewelers had made this disgusting necklace, hoping that Madame DuBerry would want to buy it.
00:13:39.200Then she died, and they were left with this, like, extremely expensive necklace.
00:13:44.080That's okay. It's sort of like if you made an apron out of diamonds, but like really tacky with tassels at the bottom connected to a multi-layer choker also made of diamonds and sort of held together with ribbons.
00:14:07.420it's sort of like a pinny like when you're playing sports in elementary school and you
00:14:13.960have to like wear a pinny it's like a pinny made of diamonds with jeweled bows on it and
00:14:22.020four tassels like four giant tassels it's just like so ugly but there's so many diamonds on it
00:14:30.580it was like super expensive and the thing is so these jewelers have made this disgusting necklace
00:14:35.260and they're like, okay, so Madame de Bourie is dead, but let's try and get Marie Antoinette to
00:14:39.640buy it. But obviously Marie Antoinette would not buy it because it was disgusting looking and also0.98
00:14:45.660insanely expensive. And she, even she did not want to spend that much money. So they were just like,
00:14:52.640oh my God, we have this disgusting necklace. It costs so much money, but no one's buying it.
00:14:57.980That means that we're actually sort of going bankrupt over just having it. Oh, and also
00:15:01.600the necklace itself was so heavy, like it was uncomfortable to wear. So it's like disgusting
00:15:07.220and impractical and heavy and uncomfortable to wear. So basically it was this nightmare.
00:15:14.680They should never have made it. And John was like, this is the opportunity I've been waiting
00:15:19.440my whole life for. So she assembled her squad. And I have to say, having, having done just a
00:15:26.260couple episodes so far, when, when one of the women we talk about assembles a squad, I'm just0.82
00:15:30.500like oh shit's getting real like i love a squad i love a team leader so jean put together a team
00:15:37.660of people for this like for her plan so the squad was herself her husband nicholas who's just kind0.98
00:15:43.960of like there ballast um her gigolo lover devillette was also involved and the mark was going
00:15:50.980to be cardinal de rohan so the thing is that her lover devillette was skilled at forgery which is
00:15:58.980like you know he's a gigolo slash forger like that's good diversify your skill set so he made
00:16:05.820fake letters that were allegedly between marie antoinette to jean to make it look like the two
00:16:13.440of them are like super good friends the two women so she showed the letters to rohan and the letters
00:16:19.560were all saying the letters were basically devlet having written as though he was marie antoinette
00:16:24.960saying like, I, Marie Antoinette, I want this disgusting necklace. I want this diamond apron
00:16:29.660that hurts the neck. But this necklace is too expensive. And my husband, the king won't give
00:16:35.020me permission to buy it. If only someone like Cardinal de Rohan would like lend me the money
00:16:40.980so I could buy the necklace. So this is the letter. Like de Villette wrote a letter from
00:16:46.160Marie Antoinette to Jean saying like, if only someone would loan me Marie Antoinette the money
00:16:52.240to buy this disgusting necklace which is like quite a quite a letter basically saying just
00:16:58.280exactly what John needed it to say for the whole plan to work and so Rohan Cardinal de Rohan was
00:17:03.820like oh my god this is amazing like Marie Antoinette wants money to buy this disgusting
00:17:08.240necklace like if I loan her the money then maybe she'll let us be friends again even though I
00:17:12.860Rohan am totally creepy and John was like great this is totally you know what I'm so happy to
00:17:19.360bring the two of you together in friendship and i john will be i'll be the middleman i'll be the
00:17:25.040intermediary so i john will pick up the necklace from the jeweler's shop and then i'll pick up
00:17:33.500rohan's money and then i'll exchange them basically but don't worry about it the plan was like
00:17:41.800weirdly convoluted and even to rohan who is like not who is willing to believe almost anything if
00:17:49.060him and that he could be friends with Marie Antoinette was like, this seems a little sketchy.
00:17:53.660So I'd just like to confirm with Marie Antoinette that this is all actually what she wants to
00:17:59.880have happen. And Jean was like, okay, you know, I'm not going to let this, she's got a plan and
00:18:05.720she's going to stick to her plan. And so what she did is she went out and she found a woman who0.96
00:18:10.740looked a lot like Marie Antoinette. This woman, her name was Nicole Le Guay-Doliva, who was a
00:18:18.500sex worker and basically nicole was told to just like go to versailles dress up fancy anyone could
00:18:26.800get in apparently and just like sit under in this garden in versailles and then when rohan comes by0.63
00:18:34.000just kind of like be non-committal and like pretend like you like him so nicole went to the
00:18:39.520garden dressed like marie antoinette and just kind of was like yeah okay smiled a nod to what rohan
00:18:44.660said. She agreed to forgive Rohan. She might not have even known she was impersonating the queen.
00:18:51.340She just knew to dress up fancy and go to Versailles, which is what she did. I can't see how
00:18:56.600she wouldn't know she was impersonating the queen. Like Rohan probably must have called her
00:19:00.980your majesty, et cetera. But anyway, so Nicole was just like, she got paid and she did her job
00:19:06.540and great job, Nicole. So Nicole did what she needed to do and Rohan was back on board.
00:19:13.800So Jean was sent out to do her like, obviously, obvious plan.
00:19:18.940So she went to pick up the necklace from the jewelers.
00:19:22.080And the jewelers were told that Rohan was behind the purchase and Jean was sort of his like messenger person.
00:19:28.220But they were told that they couldn't give the necklace directly to the queen because, you know, the queen allegedly didn't want her husband to know about it.
00:19:35.900So they were told, give the necklace to Jean and she'll give it to the queen.
00:19:40.580and then the money Rohan will pay you later, basically. So Jeanne didn't pay the jewelers.
00:19:47.160They just gave her this, like, I don't even know, 50 pound diamond penny with tassels on the bottom.
00:19:56.520Four tassels. It's like, you might think like, you know what? Are you just like exaggerating?
00:20:01.080It's like, no, it's like actively ugly looking. Like, like it's just so ugly.
00:20:07.380And now we're just going to take a break for a word from our sponsors.
00:20:11.820Before you knew what a stock was, you traded snacks, cards, turns.
00:20:17.500You knew what something was worth because you felt it.
00:20:20.980That instinct to trade didn't disappear.
00:22:58.540Anyway, she got the jewels and then she brought the necklace to her husband, Nicholas.
00:23:04.160And then just like in that part in Ocean's 8 where Mindy Kaelin was, she took the necklace apart, hiding off in the room.
00:23:11.340Nicholas disassembled the necklace and into just like all separate diamonds.
00:23:15.720side note in oceans eight there is a part where they're in the like the room with all the necklaces
00:23:22.880and the jewelry and stuff and one of the necklaces there is in fact a replica of this necklace i was
00:23:28.480like oh my god it's the necklace from this so once you've seen the picture maybe you'll know
00:23:32.800what i mean or maybe you saw that movie and you know this whole story and you're like i noticed
00:23:36.440that too and that was amazing anyway so nicholas took apart the necklace and he started just sort
00:23:42.120of like low-key selling the diamonds like a few at a time at like different shops so nobody thought
00:23:46.720like why does this man have literally 50 pounds of diamonds the jewelers meanwhile were like why0.84
00:23:51.780isn't anyone paying us for the necklace and then they realized like oh shit um we just clearly got0.82
00:23:59.160conned and then they had rohan cardinal de rohan arrested for defrauding them because they thought
00:24:04.540he was one behind everything they thought he had sent jean there they thought he was going to pay
00:24:08.600for it rohan of course didn't know that anything untoward was happening and so he uh just and he
00:24:15.800also has no chill so he just like squealed on everybody so he said basically jean um i think
00:24:24.180was behind this also de valet the gigolo um nicole the sex worker and also he just i'm i'm not i can't
00:24:33.000remember exactly why this happened but he also was like and count kegliostro which is just like
00:24:39.240that he just brought him in as well so that's just happening so all these people were brought in
00:24:44.700on this con but the thing is this is this is france it's like just just before the french
00:24:52.300revolution happened so like the people of france just like really hated the king and queen at the
00:24:59.900moment. They would believe any terrible thing anybody said about them. So even though Marie
00:25:04.620Antoinette had nothing, nothing, nothing to do with any of this, the letters were forged. She
00:25:09.300didn't want the necklace. She'd never been friends with Sean. She still hated Rohan,
00:25:14.160but everybody was just kind of like, ugh, Marie Antoinette, we know all about her. This is,
00:25:18.620I bet she wanted the necklace. I bet she got Rohan to buy it for her. So like they were,
00:25:22.440they were ready to believe the worst about her. And so the only way that Marie Antoinette and her
00:25:27.200husband figured they could prove their innocence was to have like a giant, a giant public trial
00:25:32.800for Jean and her co-conspirators. But hot twist, the very act of having a public trial basically
00:25:41.380backfired because Jean went up on the stand and she put on an amazing show. She just acted like0.99
00:25:47.320a martyr and she was just like, oh my God, I can't believe I'm in this position. Like I never did
00:25:54.240anything bad a day in my life and everybody like she just want everybody's sympathy and everybody
00:25:59.420already was predisposed to hate marie antoinette and the king so it didn't take a lot for jean
00:26:05.320to win their sympathy but still like she she put on a show she did a good job there
00:26:09.400and the although there wasn't like newspaper tabloid press but there was like pamphlets
00:26:15.360and so all these pamphlets got published about how like she was the true victim
00:26:20.040and people like cheered her when she went in and out of court and so eventually Cardinal Rohan
00:26:26.860Nicole and Count Cegliostro were all acquitted although the two men were sent into exile
00:26:33.720de Valette the gigolo slash forger was also exiled from the country and Jean was despite
00:26:41.180having all this public sympathy she was found guilty of basically being a con artist and she0.52
00:26:46.200sentenced to be whipped, branded, and imprisoned. But even though like the whole squad were literally
00:26:53.540found guilty, Marie Antoinette was still super unpopular and everybody still kind of blamed her0.72
00:26:58.680for the whole thing. But so you might think, you know, that's it. Jean is going to be whipped,
00:27:04.280branded, sent to prison, and that's the last you ever heard of her. But that's not what happened.
00:27:08.000what happened is she disguised herself as a boy and escaped from prison it's like went all the way
00:27:16.840to london like she crossed the waters to get from france all the way over to england she went to
00:27:24.040london and then she published her autobiography which was called memoirs of the comtesse de
00:27:30.900valois de la motte which was her sort of fake title she got from her husband combined with her
00:27:36.240own actual sort of royal illegitimate name. Anyway, she published her, she disguised herself
00:27:41.320as a boy, went to England and published her memoirs, which is how we know a lot of what
00:27:46.220we know about her. And so like any good memoirist, she did her best to make herself come across
00:27:51.960as the heroine. She just leaning into public sentiment made Marie Antoinette seem like
00:27:58.680the bad guy in this whole situation. So this all seems like she might have then lived happily
00:28:04.820ever after in London, is a popular memoir writer, just sort of like this famous person, but plot
00:28:12.200twist, she died at age 35, having fallen out of her hotel room window. So this is like, what?
00:28:22.080Basically, she was perhaps jumped out of her hotel window trying to escape from debt collectors,
00:28:27.320not to intentionally kill herself, but just to escape. But she apparently injured herself very
00:28:32.560a badly, you know, broken legs, just like awful. But also like, did she jump? Was she pushed?
00:28:40.800I mean, nobody knows, but basically that, that is what happened. So she died in 1791, August 23rd,
00:28:49.2601791, which was basically two years before Marie Antoinette herself was executed during the French
00:28:56.160revolution. And so the two women were connected in this weird way. They both died within two years
00:29:02.980of each other. And if you want to pay regards to this heroine, Jeanne is buried in London,
00:29:11.320where she, where she died. She's buried in St. Mary's churchyard in Lambeth in London, England.
00:29:18.580So first I just super want to shout out where I first heard about this story. It's from an amazing
00:29:24.880book literally one of the best books i think i've ever read in my life true story is the true crime
00:29:30.800slash historical non-fiction book how to ruin a queen by jonathan beckman he just gets in depth
00:29:37.200into all of this and just like like explaining who jean is who who her co-conspirators are like
00:29:44.020what the mood was like in france just like all the weird details of like literally this whole saga
00:29:49.500which is just like I can't it's just like how is this even a true story like every plot twist is
00:29:55.780just like what and then that really there's a couple movie versions of this in 2001 there's
00:30:01.480a Hilary Swank movie that came out called The Affair of the Necklace and that's what this whole
00:30:05.600thing became known as to history the whole ugly necklace tricking the jewelers into giving it to
00:30:11.980her Marie Antoinette becoming the villain like it's just known as The Affair of the Necklace
00:30:16.700And that's also the title of the Hilary Swank movie, which is like for costumes. Great. For like hairstyles. Great. But it really kind of overcompensates and trying to make Jean sympathetic where she should just really be this like badass con artist, I think.
00:30:36.520but here they try and make it I don't know it's just they're trying to make you feel bad for her0.97
00:30:42.300to like understand why she did this where it's like I understand why she did this like she
00:30:46.900wanted a luxurious life and she saw what people are doing in Versailles she was super smart and
00:30:51.180she did it anyway the movie is worth seeing because basically because every version of this
00:30:56.800story is worth seeing and also Hilary Swank does a good job and the costumes and hair are super
00:31:02.480amazing. And actually now I'm just remembering that is where I heard about the whole thing to
00:31:06.960begin with before I even read the book. Frock Flicks is a website where costume designers talk
00:31:12.820about different costumes in different movies, et cetera. And they sort of explain what's
00:31:17.720accurate and what's not accurate. And so they were, they did a post about this movie,
00:31:22.080The Affair of the Necklace, where they especially complimented how the wigs were so good in this
00:31:26.640movie. And I was like, what is this Affair of the Necklace? Then I looked it up. Then I found
00:31:30.940the Jonathan Beckman book. And here we all are and our lives are so much better. There was a 1946
00:31:36.140French film, L'Affaire du Collier de Lorraine. So the affair of the necklace, basically in French.
00:31:43.520In 1929, there was a German silent film called Cagliostro. And then the 1979 Japanese anime
00:31:50.160Rose of Versailles involved some of this stuff as well. And now it is time to get on to
00:31:57.320just scoring this basically to see where jean de valois saint remy de la motte fits on our
00:32:06.080scandalicious scale so i mean if for some reason you haven't listened to the previous episodes of
00:32:13.480this podcast this is where i score the story just not because i'm not scoring the people i don't
00:32:19.520want to say that any person is any more valuable than any other person but just like in terms of
00:32:24.080a story how how do these all rank and then at the end of the season we can see kind of like which
00:32:30.960was the most skandalicious story we went to so there's four categories the first of wish is the
00:32:38.460eponymous skandaliciousness score so for jean we've got a lot we've got a lot to work with here
00:32:46.960we've got the and again like the skandaliciousness is like in the time and place where she lived
00:32:52.860so the fact that she was eight months pregnant with twins when she got married and she gave0.99
00:33:00.660birth to the babies a month after the wedding pretty scandalousness like for the time time
00:33:08.000and place the fact that she in short order took two lovers one of whom was a infamous gigolo
00:33:16.500slash letter forger. Scandalicious. The fact that she took up with Cardinal de Rohan,
00:33:23.140pretended she was friends with Marie Antoinette, and executed the entire affair of the necklace.
00:33:29.160I mean, we're getting into scheminess next, but in terms of scandaliciousness, just the fact that
00:33:33.520she, this is, this is going to be a high score. I think there was no murder involved in this story,
00:33:43.140which is why I'm going to give her a nine out of ten had there been like she had a squad1.00
00:33:50.300she had the like sexy the the affairs with the men she had the the baby a month after she was1.00
00:33:58.960married like scandalousness is there but I'm giving her a nine out of ten because she didn't
00:34:05.740actually there was no actual murder committed here not that murders should be committed but
00:34:11.600in terms of like a story and how scandalous is the story that's that's how i'm grading her because0.96
00:34:17.700the last episode francis howard i mean she got a 10 for scandalousness and she deserved it the0.97
00:34:25.960next category is scheminess and this is where i think jean can really step up so the complexity
00:34:33.360of her plan like she took up with rohan figured out that he wanted to be friends with marie0.97
00:34:38.640Antoinette found out about this ugly necklace realized she could use the ugly necklace and0.86
00:34:43.460Rohan's feelings for Marie Antoinette together so that she could get the necklace for herself
00:34:48.440bringing in Nicole the Marie Antoinette look-alike sex worker like the levels the levels of this
00:34:56.660like oh for scheminess I think I don't know I don't want to like score everybody really high
00:35:04.240because then it's like where can you go from there but at the same time oh I'm gonna give her
00:35:09.260an eight for scheminess because wow this was amazing scheminess and then the fact that she
00:35:14.940disguised herself as a boy to escape prison and went to England like her scheminess super high0.91
00:35:22.520but I'll say is basically it was the one scheme and it was an amazing scheme but like to get a
00:35:30.86010 in scheminess. I think you need to have like numerous schemes. So eight in scheminess.
00:35:38.400Significance is the next category. And this is an interesting one to think about because
00:35:42.620at the time, and I think this is what we're finding a lot of the stories, like these stories
00:35:47.800seemed huge at the time, but they became sort of more ephemeral. But the affair of the necklace was,
00:35:53.800I think, one of numerous factors, but it was one of the factors that really led to
00:36:00.480um the french revolution like it didn't this specific thing wasn't like the straw that broke
00:36:07.120the camel's back but it was it just made everybody hate marie antoinette a little bit more
00:36:15.160which just got everybody a bit more worked up the fact that she was this martyr got everybody else
00:36:20.360more worked up like the significance is not like she didn't throw the match that started the fire
00:36:26.220but she was like she was like if the fire was a pile of hay this was like a big old clump of hay
00:36:32.820in that fire if that's a metaphor I don't know but overall like the significance to like
00:36:38.780world history I'm gonna I'm gonna give her a three I think like it is significant but
00:36:47.020we're gonna look at other people whose stories are have more significance the final scoring
00:36:54.220factor is the sexism bonus. And I want to, I think, redefine that because the first two episodes
00:37:01.140we did were both wealthy, noble women. Jeanne kind of was noble, but she was also an impoverished1.00
00:37:09.860peasant. So there's, there's classism and there's sexism and they go together, especially in these
00:37:17.180stories of women like Jeanne. So for this, we're looking at how much did the fact that she was a0.82
00:37:23.780woman and that she was a poor woman how much did that hold her back how much did that affect her
00:37:29.940life like if she had been a man in the society how might things have turned out differently
00:37:35.100and this is an interesting one again I thought that this bonus would be much more
00:37:41.160apparent in figuring out these scores but sort of like with Francis Howard like0.75
00:37:46.600jean was she was a woman and it was a shitty time to be a woman it was a shitty time to be
00:37:54.760poor women but she kind of saw the cards she was dealt and went from there so like she got married1.00
00:38:02.120young pregnant which is like probably not her fondest dream but that kind of got her the1.00
00:38:09.920marriage so she was able to do that like basically she could have stayed in the nunnery and that
00:38:13.840would have been an okay life but she got married instead she took the lovers she had all this0.96
00:38:18.120ambition and she's able to pull off this plan because she was a woman but I will say if had
00:38:25.500she been born a man with this much ambition and cleverness and drive she may have she may have
00:38:32.960not taken the fall quite as much as she did like I think the fact that all the men involved in her
00:38:38.560scheme were sent in exile whereas she was like whipped and thrown in prison I mean that's that's0.97
00:38:43.820the sexism right there. So everybody, as far as I can imagine, is always going to get at least a1.00
00:38:51.020five in the sexism area. Lower class women will also get the sexism slash classism. I'm going to1.00
00:38:58.680give her a seven, a seven in this category, which adds up to 27. She gets a 27 out of 40, which is,
00:39:08.080i think the highest score of anybody yet and i mean well deserved the whole like well-behaved0.71
00:39:17.300women sell to make history thing she's like such an example of a woman who just we know about her
00:39:24.800well firstly because jonathan beckman wrote that amazing book because frog flicks did the review of0.82
00:39:30.100the hillary flank film and because i'm doing this podcast now but we know about her like