Vulgar History - March 25, 2020


Women Leaders, part 5: Almost-Queen Matilda

Topics
Women Leaders, part 4: Killing Vikings With Murder Bees Women Leaders, part 6: Genocidal Warrior Queen, Isabella I

Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

33

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Toxicity

16

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Hate speech

10

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Ready to take your investing knowledge to pro level? This is Fidelity Connects,
00:00:04.400 your daily edge in the markets. Get deep insights on real-time market topics that
00:00:08.860 may impact your investment portfolio. Listen to Fidelity Connects on Spotify today and power
00:00:13.500 your next move tomorrow. Hello and welcome to the Vulgar History Podcast. My name is
00:00:29.860 Anne Foster, and this is quarantine edition, season two. Our theme is women leaders in history
00:00:37.360 and the men who whined about it. And I'm recording this in the past. You're listening to this in my
00:00:43.900 future. And today that I'm recording this, everything is chaos. A lot of people are working
00:00:50.040 from home. There's a pandemic going on. Everything's pretty intense. And I like listening to
00:00:59.260 podcasts about history and other things to sort of get my mind off of what's up in the
00:01:05.180 world. And perhaps you do too. And perhaps you're listening to this in the far off distant
00:01:09.680 future and you're like, oh man, remember in March of 2020, all that weird pandemic stuff
00:01:16.160 was happening. What a crazy time. Here's a podcast someone recorded when that was all
00:01:21.300 happening, where she talked about her feelings. So today I'm going to do my best to bring
00:01:28.120 you as delightful a podcast episode as usual. And honestly, the story is so great. I couldn't
00:01:33.520 wait. I couldn't not do this. Honestly, doing the podcast is kind of therapeutic for me.
00:01:39.260 Anyway, I hope you enjoy listening to it. And it's a story that I did a pile of research for.
00:01:46.780 I like literally finished researching yesterday, I think, because it's a story I kind of knew,
00:01:52.720 but I really wanted to make sure I got all the minutiae and the details correct, because it's so
00:01:56.920 it's sort of the story that inspired this whole season of the podcast so we're talking about
00:02:02.520 empress matilda who's a person you may or may not know about or you might have vaguely heard about
00:02:09.620 her but i read a book about her a bit ago it's a recent ish book by katherine hanley that's just
00:02:16.220 called i think it's just called matilda but i'll put links in the show notes it is an excellent
00:02:22.080 excellent excellent biography actually first i heard her interviewed on the bbc history extra
00:02:26.000 podcast about this book and it got me thinking about the whole just the double standards that
00:02:31.160 women leaders have faced since seemingly as we've been learning on this podcast time immemorial oh
00:02:37.580 the book is actually called matilda colon empress queen warrior by katherine hanley but again i'll
00:02:43.940 put links in the show notes and she really dives into matilda's story in a super interesting very
00:02:48.440 readable sort of way that really gets your attention and really i like history books like
00:02:54.140 this that really sort of help you imagine what the person was like, what the situation was like,
00:02:59.320 not just like this battle, this war, etc, etc, but really like why people are making the decisions
00:03:04.180 they were making and just kind of what the whole context of the world was. And in some ways, my
00:03:10.100 hobby, my interest in reading about history is part of what's keeping me pretty, I wouldn't say
00:03:16.800 calm, but I would say like head on my shoulders-ish vis-a-vis the current global pandemic
00:03:22.860 because it's like so much shitty stuff has happened all the time all the time all over the
00:03:28.420 place awful things weird things unexpected things stuff like a pandemic when it happens like if
00:03:34.220 you're talking about like back in the day you've got your black plague going on the 1918 influenza
00:03:40.900 like these things come up and it's just sort of reminds you that like we're all still people like
00:03:46.300 we have we have the internet and stuff now but like things aren't that different from whatever
00:03:51.740 you know a thousand years ago just in the terms of like we're still fragile human bodies and
00:03:57.780 and the flu can whatever so it's just sort of like it puts into perspective as well the women
00:04:03.000 who are looking at this season and last season frankly but just thinking about the odds and
00:04:07.860 what you're up against not just like from society as we'll see what happens with Matilda but also
00:04:13.060 just the world and how everything can be bonkers and it's like so much easier to just kind of sit
00:04:20.180 back and be like, well, here's the world and let's just like deal with it. But to be someone
00:04:24.860 like Matilda, who's just like challenging the status quo slash almost dying in childbirth in
00:04:30.640 like the year 1100 something, like to just keep going to anyway, all the stuff she does is all
00:04:36.400 the more impressive when you just put in the context of just like the world in general. So
00:04:41.680 without further ado, we're going to get into this story. So I did mention the Matilda book by
00:04:47.560 Catherine Hanley, Matilda, Empress, Queen, Warrior. And there's another book that was a
00:04:52.420 mega reference for me in this, which is a book that is called She-Wolves, The Women Who Ruled
00:04:57.980 England Before Elizabeth by Helen Castor. Also super recommend. Also put in the show notes so
00:05:04.020 you can get some more information about these books. And also I'm figuring some stuff out about
00:05:08.980 like how I'm going to link to them. There's this really great website called bookshop.org
00:05:13.360 where you can like make lists and stuff. So by the time I post this, maybe that'll all be working.
00:05:17.240 who knows where the link is going to lead you in the show notes. But what I can tell you
00:05:20.380 is that if you go to audibletrial.com slash vulgar history, you can get one month free
00:05:26.540 trial of Audible. And maybe you can listen to the Matilda book there because it's also good
00:05:31.960 as an audio book. Full disclosure, that's how I read it. So we're going back. So the last episode
00:05:38.180 we did was about Aethelflaed. You've got to love my laptop when I type in A-E, it auto finishes
00:05:46.880 I said to Aethelflaed, that is how much I have read about the awesome person. So last time we
00:05:51.600 talked about Aethelflaed, Lady of the Merchians. And so she was around circa 870 till the year 918.
00:05:58.380 And then we're going to zoom ahead a little bit. So she was part of the Anglo-Saxon scenario,
00:06:03.620 but now we're moving into the Norman dynasty. So we're going to have a little history lesson now.
00:06:09.640 If you're on a self-isolation or quarantine, you know, here's some learning for you,
00:06:14.780 maybe for your youths who you're homeschooling. So William the Conqueror was a man who invaded
00:06:21.800 England in 1066 with his wife, Matilda of Flanders. That's not the Matilda we're going to 0.98
00:06:27.320 be talking about. Guess what? There's 11 different people called Matilda in this story. 11. I'm going
00:06:33.820 to do my best to differentiate them for you. So this is the first Matilda, Matilda of Flanders,
00:06:39.200 wife of William the Conqueror. So he was from Normandy, which was an area of France. And when
00:06:47.320 he invaded England and took over, there's the Bayou Tapestry tells that whole story. And he
00:06:52.400 brought in with him the new Norman dynasty and also the French language. And he sort of replaced
00:06:58.640 everybody, all the officials with new French people. He made French the language and a whole
00:07:03.800 new regime. Like he just sort of swept away the whole Anglo-Saxon situation. And so although he 0.87
00:07:10.620 brought in with him a sort of French thing where generally a king is inherited by his firstborn
00:07:17.160 legitimate son, there was a whole, there were some shenanigans and his illegitimate son, Henry,
00:07:23.520 wound up taking over when William died. This is one of several Henrys. So just like buckle up.
00:07:31.260 So, Henry was both King of England and Duke of Normandy, because that was William the Conqueror's title when he took over England.
00:07:40.600 So, at this point, England was like the England that we know, the little island, and then across the Channel, part of France.
00:07:47.620 So, it was sort of like bi-coastal.
00:07:49.720 So, as far as dynasties go, the Normans were still pretty new in the sense of like William the Conqueror was the first, and then Henry was the second one.
00:07:57.760 so much dependent on having a clear line of succession to follow him after he died henry
00:08:03.020 because he wanted to continue on having normans being in charge this is like not entirely dissimilar
00:08:08.400 from you're familiar with the saga of henry the eighth that whole thing where he was just like i
00:08:12.720 have to have the tutors keep going oh no daughters um so what happened here is that so we had
00:08:19.300 william the conqueror his wife matilda flanders his ultimate son was henry henry's wife also
00:08:27.160 called Matilda but she had her name changed to Edith or her name was Edith and it was changed
00:08:32.580 to Matilda because at this point in time just like women had to be called Matilda apparently
00:08:36.540 so we're going to call her Edith Matilda sort of like on the hills Justin Bobby Edith Matilda so
00:08:43.020 she was incredibly pious and religious to the point that after she had one daughter and one son 0.91
00:08:48.020 she basically ran off to become a nun literally washing the feet of lepers like wearing a hair 0.86
00:08:53.580 shirt like just like super religious in this kind of like 1100s sort of way so henry was a norman 0.58
00:09:01.000 from france and edith matilda was the daughter of the scottish king malcolm the third and also a
00:09:06.740 descendant of alfred the great alfred the great being the father of ethelflaed lady of the marshes
00:09:12.740 i think so edith matilda had some anglo-saxon to her so it was a beneficial marriage for henry
00:09:17.960 because he was the heir of this french guy who took over but edith matilda brought over the
00:09:22.700 Anglo-Saxon stuff. So it was a good alliance to sort of solidify them as leaders. So genetically,
00:09:29.800 what this meant was that their children were even more legitimate English rulers than either
00:09:34.280 Edith Matilda or Henry because they had both sides. So their first child born was our heroine,
00:09:40.620 the main Matilda, who's born on or around May 7th, 1102. So this is like 100-ish years later
00:09:50.160 than Ethelflaed. So one year later, Matilda's brother was born and he was called William
00:09:54.620 Ethling. So the Normans, being a new dynasty, hadn't quite sorted out what their inheritance
00:09:59.800 rules would be. Like generally, but they were like, you know what we're going to do? We're
00:10:03.380 going to do sons are more important than daughters because that's just kind of what everyone's doing
00:10:07.340 all around us. And they also were like, so sons outrank daughters, which means William Ethling
00:10:13.440 will be the heir, but also legitimate children outrank illegitimate children. So even though
00:10:18.560 we'll get to it but um henry had a lot of illegitimate children but william etheling was 0.83
00:10:23.800 he was it he was the heir so edith matilda the mom she was super religious basically became a
00:10:31.320 after having two children um side note her mother margaret of scotland uh literally was made a saint
00:10:38.240 so it's just like a long line of super religious scottish women so everything rested on william
00:10:44.620 Etheling's shoulders vis-a-vis inheritance because there was not going to be any more
00:10:48.440 sons. Edith Matilda pieced out of childbearing entirely. Henry had 24 illegitimate children
00:10:57.020 that we know of, including three other girls also named Matilda. So our Matilda tally is now up to
00:11:04.360 five. So we have our Matilda and she has three illegitimate half-sisters also called Matilda.
00:11:09.960 her mother also called matilda her grandmother matilda that's just where we're at right now
00:11:15.740 um henry's oldest and most important bastard was named robert earl of gloucester and we'll hear 0.88
00:11:22.220 more about him later but spoiler he's great this is not a story where like men are awful to women
00:11:29.380 all the time and then everyone dies like some of our other episodes in this podcast season there's
00:11:35.280 some of the good guys in this story. It's a refreshing, Robert of Gloucester being one of
00:11:40.100 them. So little is known about Matilda's earliest life, but she probably stayed with her mother,
00:11:46.500 was taught to read and was educated in religious morals because God knows Edith Matilda was
00:11:51.380 all about religion. Among the nobles at her mother's court where she was raised were her
00:11:56.420 uncle David, who was later made King of Scotland. So because remember, Edith Matilda's father was
00:12:02.260 the king of scotland so her brother becomes king of scotland later david also an important good
00:12:06.920 dude later on uh robert of gloucester good dude her half-brother also there also there her cousin
00:12:12.960 stephen of blois blois her cousin stephen and he's going to become important later is he a good guy
00:12:19.820 we will see in 1108 when she was six henry left matilda and her brother in the care of anshelm
00:12:26.720 the archbishop of canterbury while he traveled to normandy anshelm was a favored cleric of
00:12:32.200 Matilda's mother. So Henry was like bopping back and forth, like England, Normandy, like pretty
00:12:37.580 regularly, because that's what happens when you're the King of England slash Duke of Normandy. You
00:12:42.380 have to keep checking on both parts of what you're in charge of. So as a princess, Matilda's job was
00:12:49.560 to marry someone important to help maintain and or grow England and her father's land ownership.
00:12:55.340 Luckily, King Heinrich of Rome slash Germany, he's not entirely Holy Roman Emperor.
00:13:03.880 So we had ancient Rome in some previous podcasts this season.
00:13:08.740 What happened is that Rome sort of fell apart, stopped being Rome.
00:13:13.500 And then Charlemagne, this guy came in and he was like, you know, it's great.
00:13:17.780 Rome.
00:13:18.060 I'm going to call this area, which is kind of basically Germany slash Austria.
00:13:23.060 I'm going to call this Rome, the Holy Roman Empire, even though it wasn't like, just because
00:13:27.220 he thought that made it sound impressive.
00:13:28.380 So there's not actually a connection between the Holy Roman Empire and the old time Roman
00:13:33.540 Empire.
00:13:34.320 And what's happening in this period, where are we?
00:13:38.740 1108.
00:13:39.840 So King Heinrich was king of Germany and also of Rome, sort of.
00:13:45.060 Other people have written about this.
00:13:46.500 That's not, we're just talking about Matilda.
00:13:48.660 I find it very confusing.
00:13:49.880 Frankly, there's a pandemic going on.
00:13:51.700 Let's just move on.
00:13:52.480 So effectively, Matilda was eight years old and she was shipped off to Germany to marry 24 year old King Heinrich, which is not weird for this situation because they didn't actually like become man and wife at this point.
00:14:05.940 When she was eight, she was crowned the queen of Rome, Germany, but she wasn't actually married to Heinrich until four years later when she was 12.
00:14:13.880 And that was that's still weird.
00:14:15.240 But like so much is weird.
00:14:17.300 Anyway, she went over.
00:14:18.860 She became his sort of protege slash wife.
00:14:22.480 two years later when she was 14 she accompanied heinrich to rome where he was crowned holy roman
00:14:28.060 emperor so that whole thing that he was dealing with sort itself out making her the empress so
00:14:34.220 this is controversial because the pope was away that day so a different person actually crowned 0.95
00:14:39.620 them so it's like is she really the empress but like that's a stupid controversy like obviously 0.78
00:14:43.860 she's the empress she considered herself the empress from that point on and that's how 0.92
00:14:47.780 she became known as Empress Matilda. It's from this time. So in 1115, the sixth Matilda enters
00:14:55.100 this story. This is Matilda of Tuscany, who was an accomplished military leader slash countess 0.80
00:15:00.380 in Italy. She died, which spurred on some dynastic struggles for who would be in charge of what 0.73
00:15:05.900 parts of what, because this is why you want to have like a really strong dynasty. So when you
00:15:09.900 die, it's obvious who's going to inherit. So there's not all these scuffles about who's in
00:15:13.220 charge of what. At one point during this whole thing, Heinrich ran off to do a campaign and he
00:15:17.420 left his wife matilda who is 16 years old at that this point in charge of italy as his regent so
00:15:22.900 like she's not a teenage trophy wife here like she's been from the time she was eight she would
00:15:29.060 have been sort of raised and taught how to be a ruler how to govern govern things to the point 0.66
00:15:34.640 that he left her in charge when she was 16 years old like she knew what was going on matilda and
00:15:40.600 heinrich didn't have any children so there might have been a child lost in infancy and life just
00:15:45.440 kind of continued on like this. They were married. She was growing out of being a teenager and into
00:15:50.360 being an adult-sized person. And then 1120, everything changed. So the whole thing where
00:15:58.980 England was divided between England and Normandy meant people were going back and forth on ships
00:16:03.160 a lot, as I mentioned. So in 1120, what happened is King Henry and his entourage went over on one
00:16:09.200 ship, the sort of like grown-up ship, while William Ethling, who's Matilda's brother slash
00:16:13.700 henry's heir went across on another ship that was like the party ship so william ethling's ship
00:16:18.900 was filled with a bunch of his half siblings remember he had 24 of them as long as his friends
00:16:24.260 and his wife um william ethling's wife is the seventh matilda in the story matilda of anjou
00:16:29.480 the this ship the party ship was called the white ship and oh also on board the ship was one of the
00:16:37.240 half sisters matilda fitzroy their half brother thomas fitz steven so it's just like party ship
00:16:42.940 full of illegitimate royals slash William Ethling heir to the throne. So they were drinking and
00:16:47.540 partying and whatever. And they were like 300 people on board. Although some disembarked because
00:16:52.280 the drinking was a bit much for them, which is like the drinking was a bit much for you,
00:16:56.320 like French nobles in the 11th century. Like that's a lot of drink. So one of the passengers
00:17:01.220 who got out was Matilda and William Ethling's cousin, Stephen, who I mentioned before,
00:17:07.040 foreshadowing he didn't die and then in a sort of titanic scenario the passengers challenged the
00:17:13.460 captain to sail faster than the king's ship because there's like the grown-up ship then
00:17:17.180 there's the white ship the party ship next to it so they were just like drag racing ships but then
00:17:22.360 the the white ship the party ship struck a submerged rock and the rock and i'm not sure why
00:17:27.920 i forgot to look this up has a name it's called a kill kill a beautiful kill a buff something beef
00:17:35.440 I'm not sure why this rock has a name. Famous rock. So the white ship capsized. William
00:17:40.020 Ethling got on an escape raft, a lifeboat. I'm not sure what's up. And he could have
00:17:45.020 escaped, but he went back to save his half sister, Matilda, not our Matilda, the other
00:17:50.360 Matilda sister. But then he went back in this raft and then others climbed onto the raft
00:17:55.240 to try and save themselves. And then they all drowned. Their half brother, Thomas Fitzstephen,
00:18:00.140 allegedly survived along with a butcher named Barold by clinging onto the rock, the
00:18:05.260 But when Thomas heard that William Esling had died, he let himself drown rather than have to face
00:18:11.140 his father, the king, with this bad news. Everyone knew the king was going to freak out.
00:18:15.420 In fact, oh, so Barold, the butcher, was the only survivor. So everyone was so afraid of how much
00:18:20.900 they knew King Henry was going to freak out that they didn't tell him about the disaster for like
00:18:24.780 a few days. And when he found out, he obviously freaked out. So he was like, shit, I need an heir.
00:18:31.980 He has these 24 illegitimate children, several, at least three of whom just died in this disaster, but illegitimate children he didn't want them to inherit. His only other legitimate child was Matilda, and it's just like, what, a girl? That's weird. 0.99
00:18:46.980 So he quickly married another woman who is named Adeliza, which is a great name, not just because it's not Matilda, but also because it's not Matilda.
00:18:57.780 And basically he married her to try and have another son and heir so that he could make the succession more straightforward.
00:19:04.960 So at this point, that's what everyone assumed would happen.
00:19:06.800 So Matilda continued on being empress back in Germany slash Rome.
00:19:10.700 So five years pass and now it's 1125 and Matilda's husband Heinrich died.
00:19:16.680 and she hadn't had any children with him she didn't stick around there because she wasn't
00:19:20.700 the regent to the next emperor and also there's a thing where holy roman emperor was elected
00:19:25.340 question mark not i researched a lot about matilda i did not research a lot about holy
00:19:31.520 roman empire so other people can fill in those blanks for you if that interest but effectively
00:19:36.120 matilda had like holy roman empire germany slash rome was kind of like bye so she she suddenly lost
00:19:43.620 her job and her status and the way she'd been living for 15 years. Note, the new Holy Roman
00:19:49.140 Emperor was Heinrich's longtime nemesis Lothair, which is a very evil sounding name. That is very
00:19:54.540 cool. So Henry hadn't had a child in five years with his new wife Adeliza, so Matilda was starting
00:20:00.720 to seem like a much more important sort of person. Henry was still hoping to have a new son with
00:20:05.820 Adeliza, but just to make things go more smoothly in general, he held a formal event where all the
00:20:10.340 nobles swore to support matilda as his heir until he had a new son so sort of like a stopgap measure
00:20:15.700 there's actually some everyone was like this is a great idea because he's the king and they wanted
00:20:19.720 to make him think all of his ideas are good and there's actually some fighting among the nobles
00:20:23.980 for who got to swear allegiance to matilda first because they're all just so excited to get to
00:20:28.460 prove their loyalty the three who all wanted to be first were robert of gloucester matilda's half 0.95
00:20:33.820 brother, the eldest of the 24 bastards, and good dude. Scotland's King David, who is Matilda's 0.94
00:20:41.260 uncle, Edith, Matilda's brother, also a good guy. And Stephen, who we're going to hear about later,
00:20:47.800 but her goddamn cousin, who almost died on the white ship disaster, but didn't because he didn't 0.99
00:20:51.980 like to party so hard. So the plan wasn't actually for Matilda to take over. It was more that everyone 0.99
00:20:58.640 to pledge allegiance to her in anticipation that maybe in case Henry and Adeliza didn't have a
00:21:04.020 child, Matilda would have a son and that new son would be the king. And hopefully Henry would live
00:21:09.000 long enough to just have that boy be the new king. So to make this happen, Matilda needed a new
00:21:14.300 husband for various reasons, including land that they wanted to have control over. The best and
00:21:22.140 only option was Geoffrey, the son of the Duke of Anjou. He was also the brother of Matilda of Anjou,
00:21:29.700 William Aetheling's wife who died on the party ship. Geoffrey was also 15 years old and Matilda
00:21:35.420 was 23. So Matilda had been empress, like empress of the Holy Roman Empire for 15 years, the entire
00:21:42.960 lifespan of Geoffrey. So she had a lot of experience and he was a teenager. Apparently he was
00:21:48.840 very handsome but he was also 15 years old and a duke so she didn't want to marry a 15 year old
00:21:54.760 duke having just come off of being literally the empress and also like that means that she'd be
00:22:01.200 sort of downgraded to like duchess which is just like not what she wanted to do she resisted but
00:22:06.100 henry didn't care what she thought he personally had jeffrey knighted and despite matilda probably
00:22:11.300 still grieving for her husband slash mentor of 15 years her father made her do it and so she married
00:22:17.100 jeffrey and i just want to mention that jeffrey's father is called folk which is an amazing name
00:22:23.320 f-u-l-k and he quickly left to go to the new to the kingdom at that point it was a new latin
00:22:30.540 kingdom of jerusalem where he married melisendi the queen of jerusalem so jeffrey was now duke
00:22:37.700 of normandy because his father ran off to become king of jerusalem which is like gotta read about
00:22:43.300 that later melisendi sounds amazing so matilda married this teenage boy she didn't want to
00:22:49.140 she refused to use her title of duchess and insisted to still be referred to as empress
00:22:54.420 by 1129 which is less than two years into their marriage the couple were living in
00:22:59.040 separate countries because they hated each other so much henry was like this is not great for the
00:23:06.600 plan of you having a child that will be my new heir so he did some mediation and by 1131 he
00:23:13.060 got them back in the same place. And two years later, age 31, Matilda gave birth to her first
00:23:20.000 child, who was a little redheaded baby son who she named Henry. Less than a year later,
00:23:25.160 she was giving birth again, but in a much more challenging experience. The second baby was a boy
00:23:30.500 named Jeffrey who survived his birth, but Matilda almost died. Like she was so close to dying that
00:23:35.640 she started preparing her will. And just to serve an example of her being amazing, even as she was
00:23:40.980 like dying in the year 1130 whatever she forced her father to agree to let her be buried in a
00:23:49.460 place of her choosing instead of where he wanted to put her so she's just like negotiating even
00:23:53.740 while dying but then she didn't die hooray matilda and jeffrey now the parents of two sons and
00:23:59.400 jeffrey being now i think 20 at least not 15 anymore they developed a new relationship based
00:24:05.100 on being parents of these two sons and they started to get along on that sort of respect
00:24:09.240 But, unfortunately, Geoffrey and King Henry did not get along.
00:24:13.640 Matilda was in the middle of all of this, so by 1135, she and her father were fully estranged.
00:24:19.520 Matilda and Geoffrey and their sons were off in Anjou,
00:24:22.680 and Matilda was pregnant for the third time while Henry hung out in Normandy.
00:24:27.040 King Henry went off on a hunting trip one day,
00:24:29.680 when he made the mistake against Doctor's orders to eat lampreys for supper,
00:24:34.220 which are a kind of eel.
00:24:36.000 and they famously killed him because of food poisoning related reasons so he died super
00:24:43.540 unexpectedly from eating lampreys on a hunting trip age 67 r.i.p and then everything suddenly
00:24:50.940 went chaos super quickly partially because every it's just like where everybody was located
00:24:56.660 at the time and who was close and who was where and you had to deliver messages by horses
00:25:00.980 so by the time the word reached matilda in anju that her father had died she rode north to claim
00:25:06.860 that some disputed castles that she'd been promised as part of her dowry and this would
00:25:11.000 later become her main headquarters for what she was going to do later she was not able to do any
00:25:16.480 more though she couldn't head over to england because her pregnancy was really really um not
00:25:22.820 pleasant for her she was not able to travel like remember she almost died in the last last time
00:25:28.160 she was what now like 35 so even now like if you're 35 years old that's like you know you want
00:25:33.980 to check in with your doctor pretty regularly about your pregnancy and this is like you're 35
00:25:38.060 and like the year 1135 she couldn't go off and do anything because she was practically dying of
00:25:43.480 pregnancy so meanwhile oh so jeffrey was also busy with a rebellion in anju so everyone's kind
00:25:49.900 of like on their separate parts of the chessboard meanwhile as soon as he heard the news matilda's
00:25:54.800 cousin Stephen, who you may remember, who is also in another part of France, grabbed a ship and
00:26:00.960 rode flat out. So basically he grabbed a ship, sailed over the narrowest part of the English
00:26:06.240 Channel, which is fortuitously close to where he was. He didn't sleep. He just rode flat out to
00:26:10.800 London where he visited his brother, also called Henry, the Bishop of Winchester, who was sort of
00:26:16.540 the Pope's representative in England. And with his help, Stephen declared himself the new king
00:26:22.900 on December 22nd, three weeks after the king died. Stephen was crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury
00:26:29.000 and Henry hadn't even had a funeral yet and Matilda was off being pregnant in France. So Stephen had
00:26:36.000 been one of Henry's favorites, but a number of reasons why this is like an unexpected turn of
00:26:41.000 events. Part of which is that he wasn't even the oldest of his brothers. His oldest brother is
00:26:45.420 called Thibaut. So this was an incredibly bold move of him to take. The precedent that he was
00:26:50.440 following was though basically that of literally Henry himself who had done a really similar thing
00:26:56.260 so Henry's father William the Conqueror had died oh no when the Conqueror died then his son became
00:27:04.080 king that son died in a hunting accident and then Henry was the brother of that son so but basically
00:27:09.020 the same thing happened a king died in a hunting accident Henry was just like I'm king now and took
00:27:13.380 over even though he wasn't sort of supposed to be so Stephen this is kind of like not unexpected
00:27:19.020 it in that way, I guess this is not unprecedented. So Matilda would have been weird in the sense of
00:27:24.800 it being a straightforward succession because no Norman King had actually done that yet. 0.84
00:27:29.000 But the fact that she was a woman made it all even more complicated because even though there
00:27:32.700 wasn't a rule that said like women can't be in charge, no one had really done that before. 0.59
00:27:38.920 And now for a quick advertising break. 0.52
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00:28:30.740 The war is over and both sides lost
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00:29:34.500 Hi, I'm Whitney. And I'm Katie. And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire. We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want to listen to. We get right to the story. We don't do a lot of extra talking, and when we do, it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser, murderer, or scammer. You'll laugh, but only at the people who deserve it.
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00:30:30.420 or wherever you get your podcasts new episodes every friday and we're back also note steven had
00:30:38.260 been one of the first nobles back in that previous thing where henry had gotten everybody to pledge
00:30:43.240 their support of matilda steven was one of those three guys fighting to be the first ones to pledge
00:30:47.100 so betrayal so there hadn't been a woman in charge of england before to the point that there wasn't
00:30:52.500 even a word for that because at this point the word queen meant woman married to the king like
00:30:58.740 that was why part of why ethel flood was just called lady of the merchant like there wasn't 0.80
00:31:03.820 so matilda was fighting to become king effectively this is part of the reason why she liked her 0.78
00:31:08.960 title of empress because it was sort of on par with emperor it wasn't as less than as queen as
00:31:15.760 sort of less than the king so stephen set off a chain of events that led to a civil war known as
00:31:22.920 the anarchy. So King David of Scotland, who is Matilda's uncle, who had been another one of the
00:31:29.820 first ones to pledge to Matilda back in the day, heard what Stephen had done, rushed down to sort
00:31:34.040 of defend Matilda, but Stephen had more troops than he did. And they wound up just sort of
00:31:38.480 reaching an agreement where King David wouldn't invade anymore. In July 1136, Matilda gave birth
00:31:45.240 to her third son, who she named William in her headquarters over there in France. And for the
00:31:52.440 next two years Stephen was king and Matilda was presumably tending to her three young children
00:31:58.960 slash scheming and her cause was lost like her cause was effectively lost like no one thought
00:32:03.560 that she was she had a chance at all until suddenly Robert of Gloucester her oldest half-brother
00:32:09.460 good dude switched sides and pledged to be her champion at around the same time her uncle David
00:32:15.200 the Scottish king also began fighting on her behalf so suddenly her dead-in-the-water chances
00:32:19.760 were revived again with these powerful allies and their forces in 1139 she stepped up personally
00:32:25.900 to like make her claim like to say like you know what i am the true monarch it's not just these
00:32:32.460 people fighting for her but she's stating this herself that itself is basically an act of war
00:32:37.340 slash treason one of her first acts was she sent a messenger to the pope to try and get them on
00:32:41.540 her side against stephen but the pope was like what's done is done stephen is the king but
00:32:46.640 Mattel was like, ugh, fine. So she set out on foot, well, on a boat. And then she got off the
00:32:52.880 boat. And then she set foot on English soil for the first time in eight years, that year, and it
00:32:58.520 was on. She also had a surprise new ally. And this is a twist I love, you know, women's, her step
00:33:05.080 mother, Adeliza, remember her father's second wife, who had by now remarried and had six children with
00:33:11.540 her new husband so clearly she was not the impediment to having a child with Henry at
00:33:16.340 Elisa uh invited Matilda to come and stay with her at her her castle in Arendelle and to dock
00:33:23.380 her ships there so just to so we know everybody is Jeffrey her former teenage husband now an adult
00:33:29.460 husband and the three sons were back in Normandy Matilda was like doing her own thing she's with
00:33:34.920 Robert of Gloucester and they're hanging out at Elisa's castle in Arendelle so the thing about
00:33:40.980 steven is he is a lot like um stanis baratheon on game of thrones i believe he was actually the
00:33:49.280 inspiration for stanis baratheon and game of thrones in terms of like a younger brother who
00:33:52.940 takes over and who's also just like really obsessed with um ethics and morality so and
00:33:59.160 chivalry so steven was like well i can't attack this castle because adelisa is there and she's
00:34:04.220 the former king's wife she's a dowager queen i can't go there because matilda's there she's the
00:34:09.540 king's the former king's daughter she's also the empress like i'm a guy i can't invade a castle with
00:34:14.880 two queens in it so what he did is he ordered matilda to go and join robert of gloucester so
00:34:20.980 robert of gloucester was off camped somewhere nearby so that he could perhaps go and sort of
00:34:26.080 attack them there stephen made a lot of like what are you doing sort of moves which makes the story
00:34:32.600 more interesting frankly so matilda's like okay i'll go i'll go be with robert of gloucester but
00:34:37.240 en route she got even more nobles to join her side and then my notes say battles battles battles
00:34:43.820 subterfuge etc other people write about the details of the battles but just bear in mind
00:34:49.100 that all happened and then it's 1141 and steven winds up captured in battle by matilda's forces
00:34:54.560 he tried to like sweet talk his way out of being in jail by like talking to his guards and like
00:34:59.780 being like what if i just go for like a walk in the woods and run away so she ended up having to
00:35:04.040 like literally put him in chains but she couldn't kill him because killing him was like a precedent
00:35:08.360 of like a monarch can't kill their monarch she but she had the upper hand she had beaten stephen's
00:35:14.440 forces but she needed the support of his brother bishop henry who you might remember from he helped
00:35:20.960 stephen in the first place and on march 2nd 1141 he gave matilda his blessing to be the new monarch
00:35:27.000 there was a ceremonial procession she was declared officially lady of england and normandy but not
00:35:33.140 king or queen. For that, she'd have to be crowned at Westminster Abbey. And this is the point at
00:35:39.180 which the whole thing just gets like, oh, I hate it. So she had won in battle and she was now a
00:35:45.720 lady of England and Normandy. And people were like, but you know what? She's sort of full of
00:35:50.780 herself. She's sort of stuck up. She's prideful. She's arrogant, which are like words that no one
00:35:55.620 ever uses or used against her father, against her brother, against her grandfather, like
00:36:02.480 william the conqueror no one was like oh william the conqueror he's a bit full of himself he's kind
00:36:07.580 of stuck up like these are completely gendered insults so and she was she clearly like there
00:36:14.200 was no role model for her in this situation there had never been a female monarch of england that 0.97
00:36:19.280 she knew of um so she probably was emulating her powerful father um and her first husband
00:36:25.980 her powerful father Kama and her first husband like these two older men who she saw being these 0.64
00:36:32.520 like super powerful kings and she would act like that but when people saw a woman acting like that
00:36:36.900 they're just like what are you doing people are like why isn't she more like her mother and 1.00
00:36:41.060 grandmother who were saints like who were like humble and modest like she should be like them
00:36:46.760 but then if she was like that then she couldn't rule and so there's just this awful like vicious 1.00
00:36:51.300 cycle um her haughtiness and insolence was seen as unfeminine and therefore unnatural and then 1.00
00:36:58.100 she didn't so bishop henry her latest fan who had agreed to crown her was like i'm gonna give
00:37:04.480 you suggestions and you should do exactly what i say and she was like take that into consideration
00:37:08.860 i was empress for 15 years like i know what i'm doing um and then he was really mad that he that
00:37:15.620 she didn't do what what he had said even though no one ever had that expectation of for instance
00:37:20.320 her father or her cousin um men didn't have the sort of expectation that they should do what their
00:37:27.000 advisor said uh when she spoke um one chronicler said that her voice was not with an unassuming
00:37:33.580 gentleness but with a voice of authority um and she with a grim look her forehead wrinkled into
00:37:39.240 a frown every trace of a woman's gentleness removed from her face blazed into unbearable 0.99
00:37:44.160 fury so men were just kind of like she's this woman and she's talking and that's gross to us
00:37:49.720 Bishop Henry wanted her, the final straw for him was that he wanted her to endow Stephen's
00:37:55.620 personal estates to Stephen's son, Eustace. And Matilda was like, why would I do that?
00:38:01.400 Eustace would then try and take over from me. That's a stupid thing to suggest. And Bishop 1.00
00:38:05.960 Henry was really mad about that and decided to switch teams again, betraying her to go and help
00:38:11.500 Stephen instead. And then, so Stephen's still in jail, still in chains. And then what is this now
00:38:17.840 like the eighth the eighth Matilda in the story we're going to call her Mathilde because that's
00:38:23.240 how it's written so Stephen's wife Mathilde had been queen and she was pretty amazing herself
00:38:29.800 she was working hard to get him or at least his sons to be king now instead of Matilda to try and
00:38:34.440 get rid of her and because Mathilde was acting on behalf of her powerful husband and not in her own
00:38:40.200 name she wasn't facing the same double standards as Matilda and was able to act more independently 0.87
00:38:45.340 ironically enough the same chronicle that criticized matilda's behavior as being so arrogant 1.00
00:38:51.820 and not womanly the same person cheered on matilda for forgetting the weakness of her sex and women's
00:38:58.620 softness she bore herself with the valor of a man like this was good for her like he's cheering on
00:39:03.580 matilda for being this sort of amazon badass meanwhile saying like but matilda like she was
00:39:10.980 sort of snooty to people anyway matilda kept planning her coronation even as unbeknownst to
00:39:17.240 her matilde with the help of bishop henry was launching attacks and wound up being matilda's
00:39:22.580 undoing so on june 24th 1141 matilda was sitting down for a pre-coronation banquet
00:39:30.840 which was interrupted suddenly by all the bells and all of london tolling and thousands of
00:39:35.760 Londoners bursting in with weapons in hand against her. This was all put together by Mathilde and
00:39:41.960 Bishop Henry. So Mathilde and company fled and the Londoners ransacked her lodgings and like
00:39:47.760 smushed up all her food and whatever. So turned against her and as such she was never actually
00:39:53.640 crowned Queen of England. One of the main voices against her at this point was goddamn Bishop Henry 0.98
00:39:59.220 who was like she didn't listen to my advice. She gloated too much. She's a woman. It's gross. We 0.99
00:40:04.420 had to get rid of her and this is also partially and he really liked Mathilde because although 0.97
00:40:10.100 Mathilde was it's like super badass warrior woman who like I kind of like her as well might do a 0.99
00:40:15.480 little podcast about her sometime later but when she went to talk to Bishop Henry she was she acted
00:40:20.260 all pious and humble and you know she went to him with like womanly tears and he was like oh that's 0.83
00:40:25.120 how women should behave so she just knew how to play that game a bit better I guess Mathilde
00:40:30.080 respect anyway so matilda learned of bishop henry's betrayal and rode off to winchester to face him
00:40:35.840 down face to face and he ran away of course because he was so strong like so brave and
00:40:42.280 criticizing her from a distance but he couldn't bear to see her in person because he awful um he
00:40:48.480 appealed to matilde as matilda's team settled into winchester in a blockage scenario blockade
00:40:54.660 scenario waiting for him to return so bishop henry and matilde's team their army surrounded
00:41:01.360 them and besieged the city so they're in winchester um this is all called the route
00:41:06.420 of winchester this whole event so so we've got matilde's teamed up with bishop henry
00:41:12.600 the army is surrounding winchester where matilda is sieged with her supporters on sunday september
00:41:18.720 14th Robert of Gloucester good dude and his army made a huge last stand mostly to distract the
00:41:25.260 enemies so Matilda could escape and she did riding a stride so instead of the side saddle way the
00:41:31.900 women often did she fled 40 miles northeast she rode flat out for literally for two days to the
00:41:38.340 point where her body was so exhausted that for the final part of her escape she had to she was like 0.87
00:41:43.060 laid out on sort of a stretcher between two horses because she was so fucking tired um amazing so he
00:41:50.780 robert of gloucester did the destruction matilda escaped road flowed out flat out like she wasn't 0.78
00:41:55.740 just like sitting around being i should be queen she was like doing amazing stuff but she seemed
00:42:00.360 got news back in the safety of gloucester that robert of gloucester good dude had been captured
00:42:05.520 by steven's forces and robert was really crucial to her whole thing like he was her half brother
00:42:10.840 he was this like all the armies respected him so much he was he was super important to her whole
00:42:16.880 her whole cause and the only way to get him freed was to do a prisoner exchange to give them steven
00:42:22.060 in exchange for robert and so she's like what to do and while this is all happening uh jeffrey was
00:42:28.380 doing an amazing job back in normandy sort of taking over there to the point where it seemed
00:42:33.760 like steven could just not get a foothold over normandy so it was like is it gonna split up like
00:42:38.220 is England and Normandy two separate places now bonus fun fact uh there's two twin brothers named
00:42:44.440 Robert and Walleran of Leicester who were involved in this whole situation one was on Stephen's side
00:42:50.340 one was on Matilda's side they were twins so Robert of Gloucester went to help Geoffrey in Normandy
00:42:57.080 because he's so helpful and Geoffrey figured that he could get his help but he was so helpful that
00:43:02.100 Geoffrey kept delaying his return um not wanting him to go back because Robert of Gloucester was
00:43:07.160 so helpful to him um but then oh no while that was happening robert of gloucester was away matilda
00:43:13.120 was left on her own i mean with her you know bodyguards etc in oxford and steven's team
00:43:18.560 came over and sieged oxford they surrounded it tried to take it over robert so pissed he stormed
00:43:24.200 back to england uh this time he brought with him matilda's nine-year-old son henry and began
00:43:28.860 fighting to free her so now it's december 1142 matilda and her her colleagues had they've been
00:43:35.240 sieged in this castle starving like literally starving for three months so she just decided
00:43:41.160 you know what it's time for another trademark matilda daring escape and so what she does is
00:43:46.340 with three bodyguards they all cloak themselves in white because it was snowy outside for
00:43:51.020 camouflage so they snuck out through a side gate um they're camouflaged against the freshly
00:43:55.740 fawn snow because it is december they were on the on a river but it was wintry enough that they
00:44:01.940 could walk across the river so they walk across the river got away nobody saw them at all and
00:44:08.060 steven was like oh good for her and he just like assed on oxford and suddenly again her cause seemed 0.99
00:44:14.140 lost but then it lived for another day the guy the chronicler who before wrote all those stupid
00:44:19.460 stuff about her um which is a work that was sort of talking about how great steven is so of course
00:44:23.840 he always said shitty things about her but he he was like you know what that was a cool thing she
00:44:29.160 did she probably did it for attention but like it was cool and having brought nine-year-old henry
00:44:34.380 over it was sort of a lucky thing for matilda and jeffrey because he was their ace in the hole
00:44:39.760 because if people didn't want a woman leading which was the main reason why people didn't want
00:44:46.420 to support matilda let's be real um he her son was a strong option matilda could not personally
00:44:52.680 command troops on the battlefield which a couple times had been sort of what saved her that she was
00:44:58.960 able to to flee and also because Stephen didn't want to attack her because she was a woman but
00:45:03.960 that sort of got in her way as people seeing her as a leader but more importantly her most important
00:45:09.220 subjects were unwilling to accept a woman as a leader her son brought with him the same birthright
00:45:14.420 like being a descendant of the pre-king Henry but without the baggage of being a woman so it's at
00:45:19.720 this point an utter stalemate between Stephen and Matilda the Matilda seems to begin pivoting to
00:45:25.620 begin fighting not for the crown for herself to become king but on behalf of her son henry for
00:45:31.460 him to become king and her son henry stayed in england until 1144 when he returned to france
00:45:36.940 to train under his father jeffrey to learn more about how to be a king etc and then the years
00:45:42.680 went by uh some of matilda's strongest fighters died mostly of natural causes robert of gloucester
00:45:49.220 good dude died of a fever very sad um some of her other fighters headed off in crusades like
00:45:55.460 They're just like, we've been fighting for you for a long time.
00:45:57.920 We kind of want a change of scene.
00:45:59.320 Then in 1147, her son Henry by this point was 14 years old, redheaded, short and stocky, 0.52
00:46:06.280 very impetuous.
00:46:07.100 He decided to just like invade England on his own against literally everyone's advice,
00:46:12.260 including Matilda's.
00:46:13.600 So he just sort of like sailed over with mercenary forces, but then he did not do amazing.
00:46:18.160 It was all sort of chaotic.
00:46:19.200 Stephen is just like, what is this?
00:46:20.740 And then Henry ran out of money to pay his mercenaries.
00:46:23.800 and so he asked matilda and jeffrey like hey can you loan me some money to pay my mercenaries and 0.93
00:46:29.120 they were like no because this was a stupid thing you just did so then henry turned to steven like 0.86
00:46:35.280 the man who's trying to usurp to be like can you pay me money for the mercenaries and steven 0.98
00:46:39.920 paid him money for the mercenaries like steven was also a good dude question mark so the stalemate
00:46:46.440 like that there's a little drama but the stalemate continued on only occasional battles every now
00:46:51.720 and then like everyone was tired of fighting and now it's 1148 matilda heads off back to normandy
00:46:58.880 which jeffrey had successfully taken over and it's not like she's retreating from the whole
00:47:04.220 england side of things it's more just like that's where more of her power was because jeffrey had
00:47:09.180 been officially named duke of normandy so steven didn't have that title at all anymore and then
00:47:14.360 in 1149 matilda's uncle david king of scots good dude knighted her son henry which was sort of like
00:47:20.780 like in roman times getting the toga this was like now he's a man and so that meant his cause
00:47:26.900 was even more real a thing for people to to stand behind because he wasn't a boy he was a man
00:47:31.920 he was 14 so matilda settled into life like she seriously like switched gears to be like now i'm
00:47:37.580 the mother of the king i'm not going to try making myself anymore so she lived in personal quarters
00:47:43.160 at a priory um because she'd always been sort of a religious-y sort of person so now she's living
00:47:48.600 sort of a nun-ish life. She began focusing more on the Normandy side of things.
00:47:53.620 Geoffrey died in 1151. Unexpectedly, he was young, 38. At that same year, her son Henry returned to
00:48:00.080 England. He's now 18 with a small army just to drum up some support again for the cause.
00:48:05.780 But everybody was exhausted still from the years of war and nobody really wanted to fight. Like,
00:48:10.840 not on either side, like not Stephen's side, not on Henry's side. Everyone's just like,
00:48:14.320 enough war honestly in 1152 henry married eleanor of aquitaine who was a very famous woman who maybe
00:48:23.120 i'm going to do a podcast about next week she was the duchess of aquitaine like she wasn't just the
00:48:29.360 daughter of the duke like she literally had the power herself so she was a super eligible woman
00:48:35.200 an amazing person for him to marry because through that match that side acquired a whole bunch more 1.00
00:48:40.380 french territory she was super powerful it was like power couple type situation um and that same
00:48:47.820 year stephen's wife mathilde died r.i.p 1153 henry returned to england where he and stephen met to
00:48:56.060 formally hash out some peace terms that wound up including stephen would adopt henry as his son
00:49:02.560 in order to name him as his heir in place of stephen's own son eustace eustace was really
00:49:08.340 mad about this by the way he stormed out ran away and then died of like fever or whatever so in 1154
00:49:15.680 stephen died so what had happened is effectively matilda and her son had cornered stephen to a
00:49:24.660 point where he agreed to make matilda's son his heir to not make his own sons his heir in order
00:49:30.520 to sort of like finagle this he had to like adopt henry who was an adult but so that's sort of like
00:49:36.780 shades of like ancient Rome stuff too so it's just sort of it sucks that um Henry got named
00:49:42.080 the heir as Stephen's adopted son instead of as the rightful king Matilda's son but but just wait
00:49:47.440 so unlike the last two previous king deaths Henry was out of town but nobody else rode in a horse
00:49:54.860 to take over he was in Normandy at the time and he actually had to wait six weeks for the winds
00:49:59.620 to be favorable enough to sail over and Matilda's son Henry became the new king of England as Henry
00:50:06.260 fitz empress so he went by that name so it meant like the son of the empress so even though he was
00:50:13.000 the adopted quote-unquote son of stephen henry was for for his whole life he was like i am the
00:50:19.020 son of the empress the son of matilda and upon his coronation all the troubles in normandy ended like
00:50:25.420 things just kind of sorted out because i was like oh great a man is in charge we're fine matilda
00:50:31.520 Matilda spent the rest of her life in Normandy, often acting as Henry's representative and 0.98
00:50:36.100 presiding over the government. Early on, Matilda and her son issued charters in England and Normandy
00:50:41.660 in their joint names. So he clearly, like he respected his mother, he knew she knew what she
00:50:45.480 was doing. He relied on Matilda for advice and policy during the early years of his reign because
00:50:50.220 she was empress for 15 years. Like she knew what was up. She helped to deal with several diplomatic
00:50:55.700 crises one of these involved hand of saint james which is literally a hand one of those relics of
00:51:02.400 like a piece of desiccated saint body so matilda had brought the hand of saint james back with her
00:51:07.660 from germany many years before the new holy roman emperor considered the hand to belong to them and
00:51:13.520 he requested that they return it to germany matilda and henry were like nope it's gonna stay here
00:51:18.700 because tourists like to come here and visit it and finally they're able to buy off the holy roman
00:51:23.420 emperor with a bunch of expensive gifts um including a large luxurious tent chosen by
00:51:30.120 matilda sure um in her old age matilda paid increasing attention to church affairs and her
00:51:36.220 personal faith so like her mother and her grandmother just like really leaning into the
00:51:39.580 religious side of things and she remained in normandy kind of governing it on her son's behalf
00:51:45.560 for most of her life she was apparently more easygoing as she got older but i mean like her
00:51:51.960 son's king like what did she have to worry about uh there's a chronicler named mont saint jacques
00:51:56.720 who met her and he described her as being of the stock of tyrants so she still had this like cool
00:52:02.640 attitude that had rubbed some people the wrong way before she never lost that good matilda died
00:52:08.600 on september 10th 1167 at the priory where she was living surrounded by the monks who would become
00:52:15.180 sort of like her found family at that point her remaining wealth was given to the church because
00:52:20.220 she was super religious as she was buried under the high altar in abbey by the archbishop her
00:52:28.400 tomb's epigraph includes the lines great by birth greater by marriage greatest in her offspring
00:52:33.860 here lies matilda the daughter wife and mother of henry and the concept of a female ruler did not
00:52:40.980 come up again for 400 years like because every other king after this either had a son or was
00:52:47.880 usurped by a guy like it never came up again that the only possible person was a woman what happened
00:52:53.840 400 years later that was the whole thing with queen mary the first and queen elizabeth the
00:52:58.500 first and the whole henry the eighth scenario and we're going to deal with all of that i have to
00:53:03.500 assume in a whole podcast season of its own but when that was all happening people sort of look
00:53:09.620 back at matilda to be like because at that point she could be a precedent for mary for elizabeth 0.97
00:53:14.600 to kind of see like okay well could a woman be in charge like what might that look like so that
00:53:20.020 precedent was kind of there and that is the life of empress matilda and i just really admire her 0.74
00:53:27.220 a lot to subject her to our little silly scale so the scandalous scale we have four categories
00:53:33.440 and as per ever like we're not saying one woman is better than the other we're just kind of like
00:53:38.680 this is a way of measuring where they each fall into these different categories the first category
00:53:43.600 is scandalousness. So this is sort of like what sort of juicy goss comes out of this story. And
00:53:50.320 Matilda was like a very upstanding person. So there's minimal scandalousness to say. She was
00:53:55.440 a little girl. She was married to an older man. That's not really scandalous. That's just like
00:53:59.860 how things went. And then she went back. She married Jeffrey. She didn't want to be with
00:54:03.340 Jeffrey. They sort of separated and they were forced back together. They had kids like,
00:54:08.080 although I'm going to give her a couple points. I'm going to give her a three for scandalousness 1.00
00:54:12.380 because some of her escapes were just like just so cool um the next category is scheminess which 1.00
00:54:18.560 for somebody who wasn't literally a queen it's more like were they doing like courtly scheming
00:54:23.280 but for someone like matilda who was like overseeing battles her scheminess is a 10 like flat
00:54:28.700 out a 10 like dressing up in white to escape in the snow a 10 like slipping out of like having
00:54:34.380 someone distract her enemy while she like runs out and then like rides on a horse for two days
00:54:38.620 like she knew what was up and then even the fact that eventually she was like you know what
00:54:42.400 there's too much sexism here they're never gonna accept me as leader i'm gonna switch to my son
00:54:47.420 like that's like her scheminess is pretty great significance is interesting because she was never
00:54:54.060 actually crowned queen of england she was called lady of the english she it was the first time that 0.86
00:55:00.060 a woman got this close to almost being queen so like if she was the first woman queen that would
00:55:05.660 be like 10 i'm gonna give her seven for significance because she really broke a lot of ground that was
00:55:11.060 later used by her later descendants elizabeth and mary to sort of figure out how to seven
00:55:17.160 sexism bonus so this is how many points do we give her for how much did her sex hold her back and for 1.00
00:55:23.940 her i'm giving her this might be the first of anyone a 10 because if she had been a woman if 1.00
00:55:29.240 the culture had been less sexist she would have just taken over and she would have been amazing 1.00
00:55:33.360 because she was amazing because she knew what she was doing because she was amazing but the whole 1.00
00:55:38.680 thing like even the fact that like she couldn't come over and fight for her throne because she 1.00
00:55:42.820 was pregnant is awful like that's that's a full-on 10 like sexism just like wrecked her chances
00:55:49.120 so that's 20 that's a 30 so she's in second place in this not contest so just to be clear so in
00:55:59.120 first place is from earlier this season agrippina the younger 31 empress matilda 30 and then just
00:56:05.040 below her is elizabeth bathory with 29 and then cleopatra and lucy hay with 28 so i love i love
00:56:10.700 that she's up there i love that she's up there even though her scandalousness was very low
00:56:14.880 because she made up for it in these other other areas so this is vulgar history my name is ann
00:56:20.580 foster you're listening to this in the future and i hope pandemic stuff is a little less wild and
00:56:28.680 weird. And I hope the story was a fun little diversion for you. So again, if you go to
00:56:33.920 audibletrial.com slash vulgar history, you can get 30 day trial and a free audio book. I would
00:56:40.400 suggest looking for there's the Catherine Hanley book of Matilda and also She Wolves by Helen
00:56:46.360 Castor, the two main sources for my my research for this podcast, which you can get there. I'll
00:56:50.760 put those in the show notes. You can also support the show by getting some of our merch, which if
00:56:56.000 you go to teespring.com slash stores slash vulgar history i've been making um merch based on each
00:57:03.920 though each woman each week of the the podcast i have a tie-in shirt or a tote bag or mug or
00:57:10.040 whatever usually it's a picture like an oldie time looking picture that i've overlaid with
00:57:14.320 hilarious text um you can take a look there if you want to support us in that way and also just
00:57:19.080 like show your support for which which are your favorite skandalicious women history if you want
00:57:23.140 to straight up just like support me love it um if you go to patreon.com slash ann foster writer
00:57:29.160 you can find some more of my writing at ann foster writer.com and we're on instagram and twitter at
00:57:35.040 vulgar history pod on instagram and vulgar history on twitter um wash your hands social distancing
00:57:42.740 um don't touch your face and i'll talk to you all next time vulgar history is researched written and
00:57:51.400 hosted by ann foster that's me the editor is christina lumagi theme music is by the severn
00:57:57.720 duo the vulgar history show image is by deborah wong transcripts are written by avilene malik
00:58:03.320 find transcripts of recent episodes at vulgar history.com
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