Vulgar History - Women Leaders, part 5： Almost-Queen Matilda (Rerelease)

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00:00:30.000 Hello, and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast.

00:00:34.360 My name is Anne Foster, and you may be able to hear some cat purring. That is my cat,

00:00:38.760 Hepburn, who's been my co-host ever since the show started in 2019. I think in one of those

00:00:44.960 first episodes, I was like, oh, I guess this is going to be one of those podcasts where I

00:00:48.100 mention my cat because she likes to hop up and purr directly into the microphone.

00:00:52.740 And ever since then, she's been part of the podcast. And today we're listening to

00:00:56.700 one of the early episodes of this podcast. So Vulgar History has been around now for

00:01:01.180 five years. We started in November 2019, and I've been revisiting some of these classic episodes

00:01:10.520 from the earlier ones. It was in a few years ago where I started working with an actual editor,

00:01:16.820 who is the amazing Christina Lomagui, who takes my random recordings and

00:01:21.700 filled with cat noises and makes them sound good. So she's going back. And when we re-release these

00:01:28.660 episodes, so she's cleaning up the audio from these older episodes where I was doing my best

00:01:32.240 to try to research, record and edit and editing, not my strong suit. Anyway, this is a very

00:01:38.300 interesting episode to be revisiting at this point in time, partially because it's, so this

00:01:43.560 is the episode about Empress Matilda. And so this episode came out in March, March 25th, 2020,

00:01:49.640 which was evident in the intro that you're going to hear when we get into the the actual

00:01:56.000 classic episode because well you know and you hear this you'll you'll think back and remember

00:02:00.840 like yeah march 2020 was a real weird time that was the month when like the world shut down and

00:02:06.960 no one knew what was happening and what was going to happen and lots of lots of things have happened

00:02:12.860 lots of unprecedented times have happened since then but that was a really weird time and so just

00:02:17.600 listening to myself from back then, it's like, yeah, that was a real weird time. And then as now,

00:02:23.600 I do continue to find distraction, but also some comfort in reading about people in history who

00:02:30.040 lived through challenges and how they got through them. But also in listening to, re-listen to this

00:02:35.860 episode myself, there's some connections to later episodes. Like, first of all, the thing I kept

00:02:40.640 thinking of when I was going back through this episode is the resonances with Fredegund. Fredegund

00:02:46.020 and Brynhild who were if you're a new listener welcome and like pause this go listen to the

00:02:51.900 Fred again episodes then the Brynhild episode then come back because there's such Fred energy

00:02:56.880 to all of this what Matilda was up to I mean her escape in the snow reminds me of Fred again

00:03:04.100 disguising as trees you know like and her unrelenting just like get it the way that it's

00:03:09.860 like now this person's on her side now this person's not on her side like there's not a

00:03:13.820 Brynhild frenemy in this, but it's cut pick Fredigan energy. So I was, yeah, maybe that's

00:03:20.280 part of why I like this story so much and why I like Fredigan's story so much. I just like a woman 0.78

00:03:25.620 leading armies and just like not stopping, just always going. And then also how it's kind of like, 0.97

00:03:31.560 okay, I guess if I can't be in charge, then I will just basically rule, but it'll be my son

00:03:36.820 who's technically in charge. Anyway, the other connection I wanted to mention is that, and I do

00:03:41.640 say this in the episode, that Matilda's grandmother is Margaret of Scotland. And we've done an

00:03:46.840 episode about her just last year with a special guest, E.K. McAlpine from It's Like History,

00:03:52.580 because that's St. Margaret of Scotland, who's E.K.'s person, like the way that Fredegand is my

00:03:57.680 person, Margaret of Scotland is hers. And so that's an interesting connection. And I do also

00:04:02.800 want to say, when you listen to this episode, partway through, you will hear Anne of the past

00:04:07.900 in March of 2020, allude to the fact that maybe next week, there's going to be an episode about

00:04:13.440 Eleanor of Aquitaine. There was not, I did not do an episode about Eleanor of Aquitaine in 2020,

00:04:19.860 nor have I in the subsequent four years, five years done an episode about Eleanor of Aquitaine.

00:04:27.480 Perhaps one day I will. I still find her story incredibly overwhelming to even wrap my head

00:04:32.380 around and we're deep in the 18th century now, but who knows, maybe in the future here, I'll set

00:04:38.280 myself up, you know, later we'll do an inception level five years from now. I'll redo this episode

00:04:42.860 with a third new intro where I'll be like, ha ha, I still haven't done it, but maybe in the future,

00:04:46.960 I'll do a whole Eleanor of Aquitaine like series or mini series or something. Her story is huge

00:04:51.460 and I can't deal with it, but you know, I did think I could back then and I did not.

00:04:56.660 anyway so listen to a little baby ann and of march of 2020 working through

00:05:04.580 those unprecedented times you know i was just thinking like again i don't know if you can hear

00:05:09.980 she's literally next to the microphone she and i had some good times in early 2020 i was working

00:05:16.100 from home we just like snowed on the sofa all day i feel like she had a nice time having me around

00:05:21.800 and at the same time i think she was glad when i went back into the office because she and i were

00:05:26.140 both. We like our alone time. Anyway, here's the episode. Enjoy.

00:05:37.560 Hello, and welcome to the Vulgar History Podcast. My name is Anne Foster, and this is quarantine

00:05:43.280 edition, season two. Our theme is women leaders in history and the men who whined about it.

00:05:50.200 And I'm recording this in the past. You're listening to this in my future. And today

00:05:56.880 that I'm recording this, everything is chaos. A lot of people are working from home. There's a

00:06:02.960 pandemic going on. Everything's pretty intense. And I like listening to podcasts about history

00:06:12.320 and other things to sort of get my mind off of what's up in the world. And perhaps you do too.

00:06:18.220 and perhaps you're listening to this in the far off distant future. And you're like, oh man,

00:06:22.600 remember in March of 2020, all that weird pandemic stuff was happening. What a crazy time. Here's a

00:06:30.020 podcast someone recorded when that was all happening, where she talked about her feelings.

00:06:35.640 So today I'm going to do my best to bring you as delightful a podcast episode as usual. And

00:06:43.000 honestly, the story is so great. I couldn't wait. I couldn't not do this. Honestly, doing the

00:06:47.320 podcast is kind of therapeutic for me anyway I hope you enjoy listening to it and it's a story

00:06:55.520 that I did a pile of research for I like literally finished researching yesterday I think because

00:07:02.020 it's a story I kind of knew but I really wanted to make sure I got all the minutiae and the details

00:07:06.760 correct because it's so it's sort of the story that inspired this whole season of the podcast

00:07:12.500 So we're talking about Empress Matilda, who's a person you may or may not know about, or you might have vaguely heard about her, but I read a book about her a bit ago. It's a recent-ish book by Catherine Hanley that's just called, I think it's just called Matilda, but I'll put links in the show notes.

00:07:31.460 It is an excellent, excellent, excellent biography. Actually, first I heard her interview on the BBC History Extra podcast about this book, and it got me thinking about the whole, just the double standards that women leaders have faced since, seemingly, as we've been learning on this podcast, time immemorial.

00:07:48.500 Oh, the book is actually called Matilda Colon, Empress, Queen, Warrior by Catherine Hanley.

00:07:54.680 But again, I'll put links in the show notes.

00:07:56.600 And she really dives into Matilda's story in a super interesting, very readable sort

00:08:00.520 of way that really gets your attention.

00:08:02.000 And really, I like history books like this that really sort of help you imagine what

00:08:08.660 the person was like, what the situation was like, not just like this battle, this war,

00:08:12.180 et cetera, et cetera, but really like why people are making the decisions they were

00:08:15.720 making and just kind of what the whole context of the world was. And in some ways, my hobby,

00:08:22.440 my interest in reading about history is part of what's keeping me pretty, I wouldn't say calm,

00:08:28.460 but I would say like head on my shoulders-ish vis-a-vis the current global pandemic, because

00:08:34.540 it's like so much shitty stuff has happened all the time, all the time, all over the place,

00:08:40.180 awful things, weird things, unexpected things, stuff like a pandemic when it happens, like if

00:08:45.440 talking about like back in the day you've got your black plague going on the 1918 influenza

00:08:52.120 like these things come up and it's just sort of reminds you that like we're all still people like

00:08:57.520 we have we have the internet and stuff now but like things aren't that different from whatever

00:09:02.960 you know a thousand years ago just in the terms of like we're still fragile human bodies and and

00:09:09.400 the flu can whatever so it's just sort of like it puts into perspective as well the women who are

00:09:14.500 looking at this season and last season, frankly, but just thinking about the odds and what you're

00:09:19.380 up against, not just like from society, as we'll see what happens with Matilda, but also just

00:09:24.660 the world and how everything can be bonkers. And it's like so much easier to just kind of sit back

00:09:31.660 and be like, well, here's the world and let's just like deal with it. But to be someone like

00:09:36.240 Matilda, who's just like challenging the status quo slash almost dying in childbirth in like the

00:09:42.180 year 1100 something like to just keep going to anyway all the stuff she does is all the more

00:09:47.860 impressive when you just put in the context of just like the world in general so without further

00:09:54.240 ado we're going to get into this story so i did mention the matilda book by katherine hanley

00:09:59.420 matilda empress queen warrior and there's another book that was a mega reference for me in this

00:10:04.840 which is a book that is called um she wolves the women who ruled england before elizabeth by helen

00:10:10.940 Castor. Also super recommend. Also put in the show notes so you can get some more information

00:10:16.880 about these books. And also I'm figuring some stuff out about like how I'm going to link to

00:10:21.280 them. There's this really great website called bookshop.org where you can like make lists and

00:10:26.080 stuff. So by the time I post this, maybe that'll all be working. Who knows where the link is going

00:10:29.540 to lead you in the show notes. But I can tell you is that if you go to audibletrial.com

00:10:35.120 slash vulgar history, you can get one month free trial of Audible. And maybe you can listen to the

00:10:40.640 matilda book there because it's also good as an audiobook full disclosure that's how i read it

00:10:46.040 so we're going back so the last episode we did was about ethelflaed you've got to love the my

00:10:54.400 my laptop when i type in a e it auto finishes it to ethelflaed that is how much i have read about

00:11:00.440 the awesome person so last time we talked about ethelflaed lady of the mercians and so she was

00:11:05.660 around circa 870 till the year 918. And then we're going to zoom ahead a little bit. So she was part

00:11:12.580 of the Anglo-Saxon scenario, but now we're moving into the Norman dynasty. So we're going to have

00:11:19.780 a little history lesson now. If you're on a self-isolation or quarantine, you know, here's

00:11:24.560 some learning for you, maybe for your youths who you're homeschooling. So William the Conqueror

00:11:31.640 was a man who invaded England in 1066 with his wife, Matilda of Flanders. That's not the Matilda 0.91

00:11:38.220 we're going to be talking about. Guess what? There's 11 different people called Matilda in

00:11:42.960 this story. 11. I'm going to do my best to differentiate them for you. So this is the

00:11:49.060 first Matilda, Matilda of Flanders, wife of William the Conqueror. So he was from Normandy,

00:11:53.740 which was an area of France. And when he invaded England and took over, there's the

00:12:01.020 Bayou Tapestry tells that whole story. And he brought in with him the new Norman dynasty and 0.67

00:12:07.260 also the French language. And he sort of replaced everybody, all the officials with new French

00:12:12.300 people. He made French the language and a whole new regime. Like he just sort of swept away the

00:12:17.660 whole Anglo-Saxon situation. And so although he brought in with him a sort of French thing where

00:12:24.260 generally a king is inherited by his firstborn legitimate son, there was a whole, there was some

00:12:30.900 shenanigans and his illegitimate son, Henry, wound up taking over when William died. This is

00:12:38.380 one of several Henry's. So just like buckle up. So Henry was both King of England and Duke of

00:12:47.360 Normandy because that was William the Conqueror's title when he took over England. So at this point,

00:12:52.340 England was like the England that we know, the little island, and then across the channel,

00:12:57.460 part of france so it's sort of like bi-coastal so as far as dynasties go the normans are still

00:13:04.480 pretty new in the sense of like william the conger was the first and then henry was the second one

00:13:09.000 so much dependent on having a clear line of succession to follow him after he died henry

00:13:14.260 because he wanted to continue on having normans being in charge this is like not entirely

00:13:19.060 dissimilar from you're familiar with the saga of henry the eighth that whole thing where he was

00:13:23.520 just like i have to have the tutors keep going oh no daughters um so what happened here is that so

00:13:30.060 we had william the conqueror his wife matilda flanders his illegitimate son was henry henry's

00:13:37.340 wife also called matilda but she had her name changed to edith or her name was edith and it

00:13:43.320 was changed to matilda because at this point in time just like women had to be called matilda

00:13:47.160 apparently so we're going to call her edith matilda sort of like on the hills justin bobby

00:13:52.360 edith matilda so she was incredibly pious and religious to the point that after she had one 0.99

00:13:58.400 daughter and one son she basically ran off to become a nun um literally washing the feet of 0.71

00:14:03.520 lepers like wearing a hair shirt like just like super religious in this kind of like 1100s sort 0.54

00:14:10.400 of way so henry was a norman from france and edith matilda was the daughter of the scottish king

00:14:16.240 Malcolm III and also a descendant of Alfred the Great. Alfred the Great being the father of

00:14:22.160 Aethelflaed, Lady of the Mershes, I think. So Edith Matilda had some Anglo-Saxon to her. So it was a

00:14:28.160 beneficial marriage for Henry because he was the heir of this French guy who took over, but Edith

00:14:32.940 Matilda brought over the Anglo-Saxon stuff. So it was a good alliance to sort of solidify them as

00:14:38.480 leaders. So genetically, what this meant was that their children were even more legitimate English

00:14:44.500 rulers than either Edith Matilda or Henry because they had both sides. So the first child born was

00:14:50.880 our heroine, the main Matilda, who was born on or around May 7th, 1102. So this is like

00:14:59.200 hundred-ish years later than Aethelflaed. So one year later, Matilda's brother was born and he was

00:15:05.300 called William Aetheling. So the Normans, being a new dynasty, hadn't quite sorted out what their

00:15:10.600 inheritance rules would be like generally but they were like you know what we're gonna do we're gonna

00:15:14.720 do sons are more important than daughters because that's just kind of what everyone's doing all

00:15:18.740 around us and they also were like so sons outrank daughters which means william etheling will be the

00:15:25.100 heir but also legitimate children outrank illegitimate children so even though we'll get

00:15:30.580 to it but um henry had a lot of illegitimate children but william etheling was he was it he

00:15:35.620 was the heir so edith matilda the mom she was super religious basically became a nun after

00:15:42.900 having two children um side note her mother margaret of scotland uh literally was made a

00:15:49.240 saint so it's just like a long line of super religious scottish women so everything rested

00:15:55.400 on william etheling's shoulders vis-a-vis inheritance because there was not going to

00:15:59.300 be any more sons. Edith Matilda pieced out of childbearing entirely. Henry had 24 illegitimate

00:16:07.860 children that we know of, including three other girls also named Matilda. So our Matilda tally

00:16:14.760 is now up to five. So we have our Matilda and she has three illegitimate half sisters also called 0.94

00:16:20.800 Matilda. Her mother also called Matilda. Her grandmother, Matilda. That's just where we're 0.90

00:16:26.180 out right now um henry's oldest and most important bastard was named robert earl of gloucester and 0.90

00:16:33.180 we'll hear more about him later but spoiler he's great this is not a story where like men are awful

00:16:40.240 to women all the time and then everyone dies like some of our other episodes in this podcast season

00:16:45.800 there's some like good guys in this story it's a refreshing robert of gloucester being one of them

00:16:51.540 So, little is known about Matilda's earliest life, but she probably stayed with her mother, was taught to read, and was educated in religious morals, because God knows, Edith Matilda was all about religion.

00:17:04.820 Among the nobles at her mother's court where she was raised were her uncle David, who was later made king of Scotland.

00:17:11.140 So, because remember, Edith Matilda's father was the king of Scotland, so her brother becomes king of Scotland later.

00:17:16.220 David, also an important good dude later on.

00:17:19.040 uh robert of gloucester good dude her half brother also there also there her cousin stephen

00:17:24.720 of blois blois her cousin stephen and he's going to become important later is he a good guy we will

00:17:31.580 see in 1108 when she was six henry left matilda and her brother in the care of anshelm the

00:17:38.440 archbishop of canterbury while he traveled to normandy anshelm was a favorite cleric of matilda's

00:17:44.020 mother. So Henry was like bopping back and forth, like England, Normandy, like pretty regularly,

00:17:49.400 because that's what happens when you're the King of England slash Duke of Normandy. You have to

00:17:53.820 keep checking on both parts of what you're in charge of. So as a princess, Matilda's job was

00:18:00.780 to marry someone important to help maintain and or grow England and her father's land ownership.

00:18:05.940 Luckily, King Heinrich of Rome slash Germany, he's not entirely Holy Roman Emperor.

00:18:15.100 So we had ancient Rome in some previous podcasts this season.

00:18:19.960 What happened is that Rome sort of fell apart, stopped being Rome.

00:18:24.720 And then Charlemagne, this guy came in and he was like, you know, it's great.

00:18:28.900 Rome.

00:18:29.400 I'm going to call this area, which is kind of basically Germany slash Austria.

00:18:34.040 I'm going to call this Rome, the Holy Roman Empire, even though it wasn't like, just because

00:18:38.440 he thought that made it sound impressive.

00:18:39.580 So there's not actually a connection between the Holy Roman Empire and the old time Roman

00:18:44.760 Empire.

00:18:45.540 And what's happening in this period, where are we?

00:18:49.900 1108.

00:18:50.760 So King Heinrich was king of Germany and also of Rome, sort of.

00:18:56.280 Other people have written about this.

00:18:57.740 That's not, we're just talking about Matilda.

00:18:59.880 I find it very confusing.

00:19:01.120 Frankly, there's a pandemic going on.

00:19:02.820 let's just move on so effectively matilda was eight years old and she was shipped off to germany

00:19:07.240 to marry 24 year old king heinrich which is not weird for this situation because they didn't

00:19:15.020 actually like become man and wife at this point when she was eight she was crowned the queen of

00:19:19.760 rome germany but she wasn't actually married to heinrich until four years later when she was 12

00:19:24.940 and that was that's still weird but like so much is weird anyway she went over she became his sort

00:19:31.680 of protege slash wife. Two years later, when she was 14, she accompanied Heinrich to Rome,

00:19:37.680 where he was crowned Holy Roman Emperor. So that whole thing that he was dealing with

00:19:42.040 sorted itself out, making her the Empress. So this is controversial because the Pope was

00:19:47.340 away that day. So a different person actually crowned them. So it's like, is she really

00:19:52.180 the Empress? But like, that's a stupid controversy. Like, obviously she's the Empress. She considered 1.00

00:19:56.560 herself the empress from that point on and that's how she became known as empress matilda is from

00:20:02.560 this time so in 1115 the sixth matilda enters this story this is matilda of tuscany who was an

00:20:09.400 accomplished military leader slash countess in italy uh she died which spurred on some dynastic

00:20:15.000 struggles for who would be in charge of what parts of what because this is why you want to have like

00:20:19.760 a really strong dynasty so when you die it's obvious who's going to inherit so there's not

00:20:23.240 all these scuffles about who's in charge of what at one point during this whole thing Heinrich ran

00:20:27.180 off to do a campaign and he left his wife Matilda who is 16 years old at that this point in charge

00:20:32.520 of Italy as his regent so like she's not a teenage trophy wife here like she's been from the time she

00:20:39.320 was eight she would have been sort of raised and taught how to be a ruler how to govern govern 0.94

00:20:45.080 things to the point that he left her in charge when she was 16 years old like she knew what was

00:20:50.440 going on. Matilda and Heinrich didn't have any children, though there might have been a child

00:20:54.880 lost in infancy and life just kind of continued on like this. They were married. She was growing

00:21:00.260 out of being a teenager and into being an adult-sized person. And then 1120, everything

00:21:07.080 changed. So the whole thing where England was divided between England and Normandy meant

00:21:12.620 people were going back and forth on ships a lot, as I mentioned. So in 1120, what happened is King

00:21:18.520 henry and his entourage went over on one ship this sort of like grown-up ship well william

00:21:23.000 etheling who's matilda's brother slash henry's heir went across on another ship that was like

00:21:27.920 the party ship so william etheling's ship was filled with a bunch of his half siblings remember

00:21:32.580 he had 24 of them as long as his friends and his wife um william etheling's wife is the seventh

00:21:38.500 matilda in the story matilda of anjou the this ship the party ship was called the white ship

00:21:44.680 and oh also on board the ship was one of the half sisters matilda fitzroy their half brother thomas

00:21:51.800 fitz steven so it's just like party ship full of illegitimate royals slash william etheling

00:21:56.560 heir to the throne so they were drinking and partying and whatever and they were

00:22:00.120 like 300 people on board although some disembarked because the drinking was a bit much for them

00:22:04.980 which is like the drinking was a bit much for you like french nobles in the 11th century like that's

00:22:10.520 a lot of drink so one of the passengers who got out was matilda and william i think's cousin

00:22:15.880 steven who i mentioned before foreshadowing he didn't die and then in a sort of titanic

00:22:22.480 scenario the passengers challenged the captain to sail faster than the king's ship because there's

00:22:26.900 like the grown-up ship then there's the white ship the party ship next to it so they were just

00:22:31.460 like drag racing ships but then the the white ship the party ship struck a submerged rock

00:22:37.320 and the rock, and I'm not sure why, I forgot to look this up, has a name. It's called a

00:22:41.740 Killebeuf. Something beef. I'm not sure why this rock has a name. Famous rock. So the white ship

00:22:50.300 capsized. William Ethling got on an escape raft, a lifeboat. I'm not sure what's up. And he could

00:22:56.140 have escaped, but he went back to save his half sister, Matilda, not our Matilda, the other Matilda

00:23:01.960 sister. But then he went back on this raft and then others climbed onto the raft to try and

00:23:06.940 save themselves, and then they all drowned. Their half-brother, Thomas Fitzstephen, allegedly

00:23:11.740 survived, along with a butcher named Barold, by clinging onto the rock, the Killebjof. But when

00:23:17.860 Thomas heard that William Essling had died, he let himself drown, rather than have to face his

00:23:22.980 father, the king, with this bad news. Everyone knew the king was going to freak out. In fact,

00:23:27.260 oh, so Barold, the butcher, was the only survivor. So everyone was so afraid of how much they knew

00:23:32.620 King Henry was going to freak out that they didn't tell him about the disaster for like 0.97

00:23:36.020 a few days and when he found out he obviously freaked out so he was like shit i'd need an 0.97

00:23:42.840 heir like he has these 24 illegitimate children several at least three of whom just died in this 0.98

00:23:49.460 disaster but illegitimate children he didn't want them to inherit his only other legitimate child

00:23:54.640 was matilda and it's just like what a girl that's weird so he quickly married another woman who is

00:24:02.160 named Adeliza, which is a great name, not just because it's not Matilda, but also because it's

00:24:07.800 not Matilda. And basically he mirrored her to try and have another son and heir so that he could

00:24:13.700 make the succession more straightforward. So at this point, that's what everyone assumed would

00:24:17.600 happen. So Matilda continued on being empress back in Germany slash Rome. So five years pass 0.94

00:24:23.600 and now it's 1125 and Matilda's husband Heinrich died. And she hadn't had any children with him.

00:24:29.980 she didn't stick around there because she wasn't the regent to the next emperor and also there's

00:24:33.900 a thing where holy roman emperor was elected question mark not i researched a lot about

00:24:40.340 matilda i did not research a lot about holy roman empire so other people can fill in those blanks

00:24:45.120 for you if that interest but effectively matilda had like holy roman empire germany slash rome 0.61

00:24:50.680 was kind of like bye so she she suddenly lost her job and her status and the way she'd been living 0.99

00:24:56.900 for 15 years. Note, the new Holy Roman Emperor was Heinrich's longtime nemesis, Lothair,

00:25:03.460 which is a very evil sounding name. That is very cool. So Henry hadn't had a child in five years

00:25:09.260 with his new wife, Adeliza. So Matilda was starting to seem like a much more important

00:25:13.720 sort of person. Henry was still hoping to have a new son with Adeliza, but just to make things go

00:25:18.660 more smoothly in general, he held a formal event where all the nobles swore to support Matilda as

00:25:23.240 his heir until he had a new son so sort of like a stopgap measure there's actually some everyone

00:25:28.400 was like this is a great idea because he's the king and they wanted to make him think all of

00:25:32.560 his ideas are good and there's actually some fighting among the nobles for who got to swear

00:25:36.180 allegiance to matilda first because they're all just so excited to get to prove their loyalty

00:25:40.360 the three who all wanted to be first were robert of gloucester matilda's half brother the eldest 0.80

00:25:46.120 of the 24 bastards and good dude um scotland's king david who is matilda's uncle edith matilda's 0.98

00:25:53.780 brother also a good guy and stephen who we're going to hear about later but her goddamn cousin 0.99

00:26:00.260 who almost died on the white ship disaster but didn't because he didn't like to party so hard 0.93

00:26:04.420 so the plan wasn't actually for matilda to take over it was more that everyone would pledge

00:26:10.200 allegiance to her in anticipation that maybe in case henry and adeliza didn't have a child

00:26:15.580 Matilda would have a son and that new son would be the king and hopefully Henry would live long

00:26:20.440 enough to just have that boy be the new king. So to make this happen, Matilda needed a new husband 0.84

00:26:25.980 for various reasons, including land that they wanted to have control over. The best and only

00:26:33.540 option was Geoffrey, the son of the Duke of Anjou. He was also the brother of Matilda of Anjou,

00:26:40.360 William Aetheling's wife who died on the party ship.

00:26:43.620 Geoffrey was also 15 years old and Matilda was 23.

00:26:47.880 So Matilda had been empress, like empress of the Holy Roman Empire for 15 years, the

00:26:53.800 entire lifespan of Geoffrey.

00:26:55.960 So she had a lot of experience and he was a teenager.

00:26:59.500 Apparently he was very handsome, but he was also 15 years old and a duke.

00:27:03.740 So she didn't want to marry a 15 year old duke, having just come off of being literally

00:27:08.980 the empress.

00:27:10.360 And also, like, that means that she'd be sort of downgraded to, like, duchess, which is just, like, not what she wanted to do.

00:27:16.320 She resisted, but Henry didn't care what she thought.

00:27:18.480 He personally had Geoffrey knighted.

00:27:21.320 And despite Matilda probably still grieving for her husband slash mentor of 15 years, her father made her do it.

00:27:27.360 And so she married Geoffrey. 0.51

00:27:29.320 And I just want to mention that Geoffrey's father is called Fulk, which is an amazing name, F-U-L-K.

00:27:35.620 and he quickly left to go to the new to the kingdom at that point it was a new latin kingdom

00:27:42.100 of jerusalem where he married melisendi the queen of jerusalem so jeffrey was now duke of normandy

00:27:49.380 because his father ran off to become king of jerusalem which is like gotta read about that

00:27:54.700 later melisendi sounds amazing so matilda married this teenage boy she didn't want to she refused

00:28:01.380 to use her title of duchess and insisted to still be referred to as empress. By 1129, which is less

00:28:07.760 than two years into their marriage, the couple were living in separate countries because they

00:28:12.340 hated each other so much. Henry was like, this is not great for the plan of you having a child

00:28:19.680 that will be my new heir. So he did some mediation. And by 1131, he got them back in the

00:28:26.000 same place. And two years later, age 31, Matilda gave birth to her first child, who was a little

00:28:32.400 redheaded baby son who she named Henry. Less than a year later, she was giving birth again,

00:28:37.680 but in a much more challenging experience. The second baby was a boy named Jeffrey who survived

00:28:43.400 his birth, but Matilda almost died. Like she was so close to dying that she started preparing her

00:28:48.040 will. And just to sort of an example of her being amazing, even though she was like dying in the

00:28:53.980 year 11 30 whatever um she forced her father to agree to let her be buried in a place of her

00:29:01.220 choosing instead of where he wanted to put her so she's just like negotiating even while dying

00:29:05.400 but then she didn't die hooray matilda and jeffrey now the parents of two sons and jeffrey being now

00:29:11.460 i think 20 at least not 15 anymore they developed a new relationship based on being parents of these

00:29:17.320 two sons and they started to get along on that sort of respect but unfortunately jeffrey and

00:29:22.760 king henry did not get along matilda was in the middle of all this so by 11 35 she and her father

00:29:28.900 were fully estranged matilda and jeffrey and their sons were off in anjou and matilda was pregnant

00:29:35.000 for the third time while henry hung out in normandy king henry went off on a hunting trip one

00:29:40.160 day when he made the mistake against doctor's orders to eat lampreys for supper which are a

00:29:46.300 kind of eel and they famously killed him because of food poisoning related reasons so he died

00:29:53.940 super unexpectedly from eating lampreys on a hunting trip age 67 rip and then everything

00:30:01.780 suddenly went chaos super quickly partially because every it's just like where everybody

00:30:07.180 was located at the time and who was close and who was where and you had to deliver messages by

00:30:11.860 horses so by the time the word reached matilda in anju that her father had died she rode north to

00:30:17.900 claim that some disputed castles that she'd been promised as part of her dowry and this would later

00:30:22.460 become her main headquarters for what she was going to do later she was not able to do any more

00:30:28.000 though she couldn't head over to england because her pregnancy was really really um not pleasant

00:30:34.800 for her she was not able to travel like remember she almost died in the last last time she was what

00:30:40.220 now like 35 so even now like if you're 35 years old that's like you know you want to check in

00:30:46.180 with your doctor pretty regularly about your pregnancy and this is like you're 35 and like

00:30:49.560 the year 1135 she couldn't go off and do anything because she was practically dying of pregnancy

00:30:55.020 so meanwhile oh so jeffrey was also busy with a rebellion in anjou so everyone's kind of like on

00:31:01.460 their separate parts of the chessboard meanwhile as soon as he heard the news matilda's cousin

00:31:06.260 Stephen, who you might remember, who is also in another part of France, grabbed a ship and

00:31:12.180 rode flat out. So basically he grabbed a ship, sailed over the narrowest part of the English

00:31:17.460 Channel, which is fortuitously close to where he was. He didn't sleep. He just rode flat out to

00:31:22.020 London where he visited his brother, also called Henry, the Bishop of Winchester, who was sort of

00:31:27.760 the Pope's representative in England. And with his help, Stephen declared himself the new king

00:31:34.120 on December 22nd, three weeks after the king died. Stephen was crowned by the Archbishop of Canterbury

00:31:40.220 and Henry hadn't even had a funeral yet and Matilda was off being pregnant in France.

00:31:46.120 So Stephen had been one of Henry's favorites, but a number of reasons why this is like an

00:31:51.440 unexpected turn of events. Part of which is that he wasn't even the oldest of his brothers. His

00:31:56.060 oldest brother is called Thibaut. So this was an incredibly bold move of him to take. The precedent

00:32:00.980 that he was following was though, basically that of literally Henry himself, who had done a really

00:32:06.820 similar thing. So Henry's father, William the Conqueror had died. Oh no, when the Conqueror

00:32:13.580 died, then his son became King. That son died in a hunting accident. And then Henry was the brother

00:32:18.760 of that son. So, but basically the same thing happened. A King died in a hunting accident.

00:32:22.880 Henry was just like, I'm King now and took over, even though he wasn't sort of supposed to be.

00:32:26.920 So, Stephen, this is kind of like not unexpected in that way.

00:32:31.260 I guess this is not unprecedented.

00:32:33.700 So Matilda would have been weird in the sense of it being a straightforward succession because no Norman King had actually done that yet. 0.74

00:32:39.920 But the fact that she was a woman made it all even more complicated because even though there wasn't a rule that said like women can't be in charge, no one had really done that before. 0.86

00:32:50.500 And now for a quick advertising break.

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00:35:34.880 and we're back also note Stephen had been one of the first nobles back in that previous thing

00:35:43.720 where Henry had gotten everybody to pledge their support of Matilda Stephen was one of those three

00:35:48.080 guys fighting to be the first ones to pledge so betrayal so there hadn't been a woman in charge

00:35:53.440 of England before to the point that there wasn't even a word for that because at this point the

00:35:57.800 word queen meant woman married to the king like that was why part of why Aethelflaed was just

00:36:04.200 called lady of the merchant like there wasn't so matilda was fighting to become king effectively

00:36:09.880 this is part of the reason why she liked her title of empress because it was sort of on par

00:36:14.680 with emperor it wasn't as less than as queen is sort of less than the king so stephen set off

00:36:22.540 a chain of events that led to a civil war known as the anarchy so king david of scotland who is

00:36:29.180 Matilda's uncle who had been another one of the first ones to pledge to Matilda back in the day

00:36:34.480 heard what Stephen had done rushed down to sort of defend Matilda but Stephen had more troops than

00:36:39.080 he did and they wound up just sort of reaching an agreement where King David wouldn't invade anymore

00:36:44.600 in July 1136 Matilda gave birth to her third son who she named William in her her headquarters over

00:36:53.160 there in France and for the next two years Stephen was king and Matilda was presumably tending to her

00:37:00.520 three young children slash scheming and her cause was lost like her cause was effectively lost like

00:37:05.820 no one thought that she was she had a chance at all until suddenly Robert of Gloucester her oldest

00:37:11.660 half-brother good dude switched sides and pledged to be her champion at around the same time her

00:37:17.520 uncle David the Scottish king also began fighting on her behalf so suddenly her dead in the water

00:37:22.180 chances were revived again with these powerful allies and their forces in 1139 she stepped up

00:37:28.260 personally to like make her claim like to say like you know what i am the true monarch it's

00:37:34.940 not just these people fighting for her but she's stating this herself that itself is basically an

00:37:39.720 act of war slash treason one of her first acts was she sent a messenger to the pope to try and get

00:37:44.160 them on her side against stephen but the pope was like what's done is done stephen is the king but

00:37:49.520 Mattel is like, ugh, fine. So she set out on foot on a boat and then she got off the boat

00:37:55.980 and then she set foot on English soil for the first time in eight years that year. And it was

00:38:01.860 on. She also had a surprise new ally. And this is a twist I love, you know, women's, her stepmother

00:38:08.300 Adeliza, remember her father's second wife who had by now remarried and had six children with

00:38:14.420 her new husband so clearly she was not the impediment to having a child with henry at eliza

00:38:19.680 uh invited matilda to come and stay with her at her her castle in arendelle and to dock her ships

00:38:26.660 there so just to so we know everybody is jeffrey her former teenage husband now an adult husband

00:38:32.680 and the three sons were back in normandy matilda was like doing her own thing she's with robert

00:38:38.160 of Gloucester and they're hanging out at Adeliza's castle in Arendelle. So the thing about Stephen

00:38:44.520 is he is a lot like Stannis Baratheon on Game of Thrones. I believe he was actually the inspiration

00:38:52.680 for Stannis Baratheon on Game of Thrones in terms of like a younger brother who takes over and who's

00:38:56.880 also just like really obsessed with ethics and morality and chivalry. So Stephen was like, well,

00:39:03.720 I can't attack this castle because Adeliza is there and she's the former king's wife.

00:39:09.060 She's a dowager queen.

00:39:10.180 I can't go there because Matilda is there.

00:39:12.040 She's the king's, the former king's daughter.

00:39:14.000 She's also the empress.

00:39:14.920 Like I'm a guy. 0.99

00:39:16.160 I can't invade a castle with two queens in it.

00:39:19.160 So what he did is he ordered Matilda to go and join Robert of Gloucester.

00:39:23.400 So Robert of Gloucester was off camp somewhere nearby so that he could perhaps go and sort of attack them there.

00:39:31.020 Stephen made a lot of like, what are you doing?

00:39:33.720 sort of moves, which makes the story more interesting, frankly. So Matilda's like,

00:39:37.720 okay, I'll go, I'll go be with Robert of Gloucester. But en route, she got even more

00:39:41.400 nobles to join her side. And then my notes say battles, battles, battles, subterfuge, etc.

00:39:48.440 Other people write about the details of the battles, but just bear in mind that all happened.

00:39:53.320 And then it's 1141 and Stephen winds up captured in battle by Matilda's forces.

00:39:58.020 He tried to like sweet talk his way out of being in jail by like talking to his guards and like

00:40:02.660 being like what if i just go for like a walk in the woods and run away so she ended up having to

00:40:06.920 like literally put him in chains but she couldn't kill him because killing him was like a precedent

00:40:11.260 of like a monarch can't kill their monarch she but she had the upper hand she had beaten stephen's

00:40:17.340 forces but she needed the support of his brother bishop henry who you might remember from he helped

00:40:23.860 stephen in the first place and on march 2nd 1141 he gave matilda his blessing to be the new monarch

00:40:29.900 There was a ceremonial procession. She was declared officially Lady of England and Normandy, but not king or queen. For that, she'd have to be crowned at Westminster Abbey. And this is the point at which the whole thing just gets like, oh, I hate it.

00:40:45.120 So she had won in battle and she was now a lady of England and Normandy.

00:40:51.120 And people were like, but you know what?

00:40:52.680 She's sort of full of herself.

00:40:54.280 She's sort of stuck up.

00:40:55.360 She's prideful. 0.87

00:40:56.240 She's arrogant, which are like words that no one ever uses or used against her father,

00:41:03.380 against her brother, against her grandfather, like William the Conqueror.

00:41:06.260 No one was like, oh, William the Conqueror.

00:41:08.180 He's a bit full of himself.

00:41:09.960 He's kind of stuck up. 0.78

00:41:11.360 Like these are completely gendered insults. 0.87

00:41:14.420 So, and she was, she clearly like, there was no role model for her in this situation. There had never been a female monarch of England that she knew of. So she probably was emulating her powerful father and her first husband, her powerful father, comma, and her first husband, like these two older men who she saw being these like super powerful kings and she would act like that.

00:41:38.160 But when people saw a woman acting like that, they're just like, what are you doing?

00:41:41.600 People are like, why isn't she more like her mother and grandmother who were saints, like

00:41:45.760 who were like humble and modest, like she should be like them. 1.00

00:41:49.780 But then if she was like that, then she couldn't rule.

00:41:52.060 And so there's just this awful, like vicious cycle. 0.98

00:41:55.500 Her haughtiness and insolence was seen as unfeminine and therefore unnatural.

00:42:00.520 And then she didn't.

00:42:02.060 So Bishop Henry, her latest fan, who had agreed to crown her, was like, I'm going to give

00:42:07.380 you suggestions.

00:42:07.880 and you should do exactly what i say and she was like take that into consideration i was empress

00:42:12.840 for 15 years like i know what i'm doing um and then he was really mad that he that she didn't

00:42:18.920 do what what he had said even though no one ever had that expectation of for instance her father

00:42:24.180 or her cousin um men didn't have the sort of expectation that they should do what their

00:42:29.900 advisor said uh when she spoke um one chronicler said that her voice was not with an unassuming

00:42:36.480 gentleness but with a voice of authority um and she with a grim look her forehead wrinkled into

00:42:42.140 a frown every trace of a woman's gentleness removed from her face blazed into unbearable 0.99

00:42:47.060 fury so men were just kind of like she's this woman and she's talking and that's gross to us

00:42:52.620 bishop henry wanted her the final straw for him was that he wanted her to endow steven's personal

00:42:58.920 estates to steven's son eustace and matilda was like why would i do that eustace would then try 0.99

00:43:05.540 and take over from me, that's a stupid thing to suggest. And Bishop Henry was really mad about 0.94

00:43:09.920 that and decided to switch teams again, betraying her to go and help Stephen instead. And then,

00:43:16.640 so Stephen's still in jail, still in chains. And then what is this now like the eighth,

00:43:21.340 the eighth Matilda? In the story, we're going to call her Mathilde because that's how it's

00:43:26.300 written. So Stephen's wife, Mathilde, had been queen and she was pretty amazing herself. She

00:43:33.100 was working hard to get him or at least his sons to be king now instead of matilda to try and get 0.98

00:43:37.440 rid of her and because matilde was acting on behalf of her powerful husband and not in her

00:43:42.780 own name she wasn't facing the same double standards as matilda and was able to act more

00:43:47.560 independently ironically enough the same chronicle that criticized matilda's behavior as being so 0.99

00:43:54.140 arrogant and not womanly this same person cheered on matilde for forgetting the weakness of her sex

00:44:01.000 and women's softness. She bore herself with the valor of a man. Like this was good for her. Like 0.97

00:44:05.960 he's cheering on Mathilde for being this sort of Amazon badass. Meanwhile, saying like, but Mathilda,

00:44:12.080 like she was sort of snooty to people. Anyway, Mathilda kept planning her coronation,

00:44:18.620 even as unbeknownst to her, Mathilde, with the help of Bishop Henry, was launching attacks and

00:44:24.120 wound up being matilda's undoing so on june 24th 1141 matilda was sitting down for a pre-coronation

00:44:33.340 banquet which was interrupted suddenly by all the bells and all of london tolling and thousands of

00:44:38.660 londoners bursting in with weapons in hand against her this was all put together by matilde and

00:44:44.860 bishop henry so matilda and company fled um and the londoners ransacked her lodgings and like

00:44:50.640 smushed up all her food and whatever so turned against her and as such she was never actually 0.95

00:44:56.520 crowned queen of england one of the main voices against her at this point was goddamn bishop henry 1.00

00:45:02.180 who was like she didn't listen to my advice she gloated too much she's a woman it's gross we had 0.95

00:45:07.440 to get rid of her and this is also partially and he really liked matilde because although matilde 0.96

00:45:13.820 was it's like super badass warrior woman who like i kind of like her as well might do a little 0.99

00:45:18.480 podcast about her sometime later but when she went to talk to bishop henry she was she acted

00:45:23.160 all pious and humble and you know she went to him with like womanly tears and he was like oh that's

00:45:28.000 how women should behave so she just knew how to play that game a bit better i guess matilde respect

00:45:33.700 anyway so matilda learned of bishop henry's betrayal and wrote off to winchester to face him

00:45:38.720 down face to face and he ran away of course because he was so strong like so brave and

00:45:45.180 criticizing her from a distance but he couldn't bear to see her in person because he awful um he

00:45:51.380 appealed to matilde as matilda's team settled into winchester in a blockage scenario blockade

00:45:57.560 scenario waiting for him to return so bishop henry and matilde's team their army surrounded them and

00:46:04.760 besieged the city so they're in winchester um this is all called the route of winchester this

00:46:10.520 whole event so so we've got Mathilde's teamed up with Bishop Henry the army is surrounding

00:46:16.860 Winchester where Mathilde is sieged with her supporters on Sunday September 14th Robert of

00:46:22.720 Gloucester good dude and his army made a huge last stand mostly to distract the enemies so 0.67

00:46:28.680 Mathilde could escape and she did riding a stride so instead of the side saddle way the women often

00:46:35.300 did she fled 40 miles northeast um she rode flat out for literally for two days to the point where 0.71

00:46:41.520 her body was so exhausted that for the final part of her escape she had to she was like laid out on 0.56

00:46:46.480 sort of a stretcher between two horses because she was so fucking tired um amazing so he robert 0.58

00:46:54.120 lost to the destruction matilda escaped road float at flat out like she wasn't just like sitting 0.89

00:46:59.360 around being i should be queen she was like doing amazing stuff but she seemed got news back in the

00:47:04.260 safety of gloucester that robert of gloucester good dude had been captured by steven's forces

00:47:09.560 and robert was really crucial to her whole thing like he was her half-brother he was this like all

00:47:15.980 the armies respected him so much he was he was super important to her whole her whole cause and

00:47:21.300 the only way to get him freed was to do a prisoner exchange to give them steven in exchange for

00:47:25.660 robert and so she's like what to do and while this is all happening uh jeffrey was doing an amazing

00:47:32.180 job back in Normandy sort of taking over there to the point where it seemed like Stephen could

00:47:37.340 just not get a foothold over Normandy so it was like is it going to split up like is England and

00:47:41.880 Normandy two separate places now bonus fun fact there's two twin brothers named Robert and Walleran

00:47:48.560 of Leicester who were involved in this whole situation one was on Stephen's side one was on

00:47:54.060 Matilda's side they were twins so Robert of Gloucester went to help Geoffrey in Normandy

00:47:59.960 because he's so helpful and jeffrey figured that he gives his help but he was so helpful that

00:48:04.980 jeffrey kept delaying his return um not wanting him to go back because robert of gloucester was

00:48:10.060 so helpful to him um but then oh no while that was happening robert of gloucester was away matilda

00:48:16.020 was left on her own i mean with her you know bodyguards etc and oxford and steven's team

00:48:21.440 came over and sieged oxford they surrounded it tried to take it over robert so pissed he stormed

00:48:27.080 back to england uh this time he brought with him matilda's nine-year-old son henry and began

00:48:31.760 fighting to free her so now it's december 1142 matilda and her her colleagues had they've been

00:48:38.120 sieged in this castle starving like literally starving for three months so she just decided

00:48:44.040 you know what it's time for another trademark matilda daring escape and so what she does is

00:48:49.240 with three bodyguards they all cloak themselves in white because it was snowy outside for

00:48:53.920 camouflage so they snuck out through a side gate um they're camouflaged against the freshly

00:48:58.620 fawned snow because it is december they were on the on a river but it was wintry enough that they

00:49:04.820 could walk across the rivers they walk across the river got away nobody saw them at all and steven

00:49:11.340 was like oh good for her and he just like a siege on oxford and suddenly again her cause seemed lost 0.99

00:49:17.360 but then it lived for another day the guy the chronicler who before wrote all those stupid 0.72

00:49:22.340 stuff about her um which is a work that was sort of talking about how great steven is so of course 0.71

00:49:26.740 he always said shitty things about her but he he was like you know what that was a cool thing she

00:49:32.040 did she probably just did it for attention but like it was cool and having brought nine-year-old

00:49:36.700 henry over it was sort of a lucky thing for matilda and jeffrey because he was their ace in the hole

00:49:42.660 because if people didn't want a woman leading which was the main reason why people didn't want

00:49:49.300 to support matilda let's be real um he her son was a strong option matilda could not personally

00:49:55.580 command troops on the battlefield which a couple times had been sort of what saved her that she was

00:50:01.860 able to to flee and also because stephen didn't want to attack her because she was a woman but

00:50:06.840 that sort of got in her way as people seeing her as a leader but more importantly her most

00:50:11.760 important subjects were unwilling to accept a woman as a leader her son brought with him the

00:50:16.600 same birthright like being a descendant of the pre-king henry but without the baggage of being

00:50:21.020 a woman so it's at this point an utter stalemate between stephen and matilda the matilda seems to

00:50:27.220 begin pivoting to begin fighting not for the crown for herself to become king but on behalf of her

00:50:33.460 son henry for him to become king and her son henry stayed in england until 1144 when he returned to

00:50:39.580 france to train under his father jeffrey to learn more about how to be a king etc and then the years

00:50:45.580 went by. Some of Matilda's strongest fighters died mostly of natural causes. Robert of Gloucester,

00:50:52.640 good dude, died of a fever, very sad. Some of her other fighters headed off in crusades. They're

00:50:58.540 just like, we've been fighting for you for a long time. We kind of want a change of scene.

00:51:02.220 Then in 1147, her son Henry by this point was 14 years old, redheaded, short and stocky, 0.52

00:51:09.180 very impetuous. He decided to just like invade England on his own against literally everyone's

00:51:14.640 advice, including Matilda's. So he just sort of like sailed over with mercenary forces, but then

00:51:19.680 he did not do amazing. It was all sort of chaotic. Stephen is just like, what is this? And then Henry

00:51:24.420 ran out of money to pay his mercenaries. And so he asked Matilda and Jeffrey, like, hey, can you

00:51:30.260 loan me some money to pay my mercenaries? And they were like, no, because this was a stupid thing you 1.00

00:51:34.540 just did. So then Henry turned to Stephen, like the man who's trying to usurp, to be like, can you 0.99

00:51:40.860 pay me money for the mercenaries and steven paid him money for the mercenaries like steven was

00:51:45.920 also a good dude question mark so the stalemate like that there's a little drama but the stalemate

00:51:51.480 continued on only occasional battles every now and then like everyone was tired of fighting

00:51:56.640 and now it's 11 48 matilda heads off back to normandy which jeffrey had successfully taken over

00:52:03.780 and it's not like she's retreating from the whole england side of things it's more just like that's

00:52:10.860 because Geoffrey had been officially named Duke of Normandy. So Stephen didn't have that title at

00:52:15.520 all anymore. And then in 1149, Matilda's uncle David, King of Scots, good dude, knighted her

00:52:22.220 son Henry, which was sort of like a, like in Roman times, getting the toga. This was like,

00:52:27.100 now he's a man. And so that meant his cause was even more real, a thing for people to stand

00:52:33.020 behind because he wasn't a boy. He was a man. He was 14. So Matilda settled into life. Like she

00:52:38.240 seriously like switched gears to be like, now I'm the mother of the king. I'm not going to try

00:52:42.660 making myself anymore. So she lived in personal quarters at a priory because she'd always been

00:52:49.120 sort of a religious-y sort of person. So now she's living sort of a nun-ish life. She began

00:52:53.840 focusing more on the Normandy side of things. Geoffrey died in 1151. Unexpectedly, he was young

00:52:59.980 at 38. At that same year, her son Henry returned to England. He's now 18 with a small army just to

00:53:06.200 drum up some support again for the cause. But everybody was exhausted still from the years of

00:53:11.760 war and nobody really wanted to fight. Like not on either side, like not Stephen's side,

00:53:15.640 not on Henry's side. Everyone's just like enough war, honestly. In 1152, Henry married Eleanor of

00:53:22.940 Aquitaine, who is a very famous woman who maybe I'm going to do a podcast about next week. She was

00:53:29.340 the Duchess of Aquitaine. Like she wasn't just the daughter of the Duke. Like she literally had

00:53:35.180 the power herself so she was a super eligible woman an amazing person for him to marry because 0.97

00:53:40.360 through that match that side acquired a whole bunch more french territory she was super powerful it was 0.97

00:53:46.140 like power couple type situation um and that same year stephen's wife mathilde died r.i.p. 1153

00:53:55.660 henry returned to england where he and stephen met to formally hash out some peace terms that

00:54:01.920 wound up including Stephen would adopt Henry as his son in order to name him as his heir in place

00:54:08.740 of Stephen's own son, Eustace. Eustace was really mad about this, by the way. He stormed out, ran

00:54:13.560 away, and then died of fever or whatever. So in 1154, Stephen died. So what had happened is

00:54:23.020 effectively Matilda and her son had cornered Stephen to a point where he agreed to make

00:54:29.160 matilda's son his heir to not make his own son's heir in order to sort of like finagle this he had

00:54:35.340 to like adopt henry who was an adult but so that's sort of like shades of like ancient rome stuff

00:54:41.540 too so it's just sort of it sucks that um henry got named the heir as stephen's adopted son instead

00:54:47.180 of as the rightful king matilda's son but but just wait so unlike the last two previous king deaths

00:54:54.880 henry was out of town but nobody else rode in a horse to take over he was in normandy at the time

00:55:00.020 and he actually had to wait six weeks for the winds to be favorable enough to sail over

00:55:04.220 and matilda's son henry became the new king of england as henry fitz empress so he went by that

00:55:12.560 name so it meant like the son of the empress so even though he was the adopted quote-unquote son

00:55:17.680 of stephen henry was for for his whole life he was like i am the son of the empress the son of

00:55:23.920 matilda and upon his coronation all the troubles in normandy ended like things just kind of sorted

00:55:29.720 out because i was like oh great a man is in charge we're fine matilda spent the rest of her life in

00:55:35.780 normandy often acting as henry's representative and presiding over the government early on matilda

00:55:42.220 and her son issued charters in england and normandy in their joint names so he clearly like

00:55:46.400 he respected his mother he knew she knew what she was doing he relied on matilda for advice and

00:55:51.180 policy during the early years of his reign because she was empress for 15 years like she knew what

00:55:56.140 was up um she helped to deal with several diplomatic crises one of these involved hand of

00:56:01.640 saint james which is literally a hand one of those relics of like a piece of desiccated saint body

00:56:07.920 so matilda had brought the hand of saint james back with her from germany many years before

00:56:12.080 the new holy roman emperor considered the hand to belong to them and he requested that they

00:56:17.660 return it to Germany. Matilda and Henry were like, nope, it's going to stay here because tourists 0.98

00:56:22.460 like to come here and visit it. And finally, they were able to buy off the Holy Roman Emperor with

00:56:26.960 a bunch of expensive gifts, including a large, luxurious tent chosen by Matilda. Sure. In her

00:56:35.420 old age, Matilda paid increasing attention to church affairs and her personal faith. So like

00:56:40.140 her mother and her grandmother, just like really leaning into the religious side of things. And

00:56:44.100 she remained in normandy kind of governing it on her son's behalf for most of her life she was

00:56:50.940 apparently more easygoing as she got older but i mean like her son's king like what did she have

00:56:55.840 to worry about uh there's a chronicler named mont saint jacques who met her and he described her as

00:57:01.820 being of the stock of tyrants so she still had this like cool attitude that had rubbed some 0.97

00:57:07.300 people the wrong way before. She never lost that. Good. Matilda died on September 10th, 1167 0.99

00:57:13.520 at the priory where she was living, surrounded by the monks who had become sort of like her

00:57:18.920 found family at that point. Her remaining wealth was given to the church because she was super

00:57:23.800 religious. She was buried under the high altar in Abbey by the archbishop. Her tomb's epigraph

00:57:32.060 includes the lines great by birth greater by marriage greatest in her offspring here lies

00:57:37.620 matilda the daughter wife and mother of henry and the concept of a female ruler did not come up again

00:57:44.580 for 400 years like because every other king after this either had a son or was usurped by a guy like

00:57:52.060 it never came up again that the only possible person was a woman what happened 400 years later

00:57:57.520 That was the whole thing with Queen Mary the first and Queen Elizabeth the first and the whole Henry the eighth scenario. And we're going to deal with all of that. I have to assume in a whole podcast season of its own. But when that was all happening, people sort of look back at Matilda to be like, because at that point, she could be a precedent for Mary for Elizabeth to kind of see like, okay, well, could a woman be in charge? Like, what might that look like? So that precedent was kind of there.

00:58:24.520 and that is the life of empress matilda and i just really admire her a lot to subject her to

00:58:32.140 our little silly scale so the scandalous scale we have four categories and as per ever like we're

00:58:38.300 not saying one woman is better than the other we're just kind of like this is a way of measuring 0.91

00:58:42.780 where they each fall into these different categories the first category is scandalousness

00:58:48.280 so this is sort of like what sort of juicy goss comes out of the story and matilda was like a very

00:58:54.360 upstanding person so there's minimal scandalousness to say she was a little girl she was married to

00:58:59.980 an older man that's not really scandalous that's just like how things went and then she went back

00:59:04.760 she married Jeffrey she didn't want to be with Jeffrey they sort of separated and they were

00:59:08.860 forced back together they had kids like although I'm gonna give her a couple points I'm gonna give

00:59:13.140 her a three for scandalousness because some of her escapes were just like just so cool um the next 0.98

00:59:19.220 category is scheminess which for somebody who wasn't literally a queen it's more like were 1.00

00:59:24.800 they doing like courtly scheming but for someone like matilda who was like overseeing battles

00:59:29.420 her scheminess is a 10 like flat out a 10 like dressing up in white to escape in the snow 0.81

00:59:34.380 a 10 like slipping out of like having someone distract her enemy while she like runs out and

00:59:39.760 then like rides on a horse for two days like she knew what was up and then even the fact that

00:59:43.940 eventually she was like you know what there's too much sexism here they're never gonna accept me as

00:59:48.540 leader i'm gonna switch to my son like that's like her scheminess is pretty great significance

00:59:53.920 is interesting because she was never actually crowned queen of england she was called lady of

01:00:00.100 the english she it was the first time that a woman got this close to almost being queen so like if she 0.92

01:00:06.300 was the first woman queen that would be like 10 i'm gonna give her seven for significance because

01:00:12.240 she really broke a lot of ground that was later used by her later descendants elizabeth and mary

01:00:17.480 to sort of figure out how to seven sexism bonus so this is how many points do we give her for

01:00:23.980 how much did her sex hold her back and for her i'm giving her this might be the first of anyone 1.00

01:00:28.860 a 10 because if she had been a woman if the culture had been less sexist she would have 0.99

01:00:34.540 just taken over and she would have been amazing because she was amazing because she knew what 1.00

01:00:38.820 she was doing because she was amazing but the whole thing like even the fact that like she

01:00:42.920 couldn't come over and fight for her throne because she was pregnant is awful like that's

01:00:48.280 that's a full-on 10 like sexism just like wrecked her chances so that's 20 that's a 30 so she's in

01:00:56.360 second place in this not contest so just to be clear so in first place is from earlier this

01:01:03.260 season agrippina the younger 31 empress matilda 30 and then just below her is elizabeth bathory

01:01:09.380 with 29 and then cleopatra and lucy hay with 28 so i love i love that she's up there i love that

01:01:14.540 she's up there even though her scandalousness was very low because she made up for it in these other

01:01:19.680 other areas so this is vulgar history my name is ann foster you're listening to this in the future

01:01:26.320 and i hope pandemic stuff is a little less wild and weird and i hope the story was a fun little

01:01:33.600 diversion for you

01:01:40.380 Part of when I do these revisiting episodes, I look back to see how did I score these people

01:01:44.460 and would I score them the same now, given other people that we've looked at and what they got up

01:01:49.900 to. And I was like, no, I think like, even though I didn't have a lot to compare her against, I think

01:01:54.860 30 is a solid score for Matilda. Well, the only place she could have gotten more points in was

01:02:00.500 the scandalousness. And honestly, as much as it's like, oh, she was like going to war to take over

01:02:05.240 the country like everything she did was like by the book really except for escaping in the snow

01:02:10.700 which is iconic and amazing I couldn't increase her score if I wanted to because I feel comfortable

01:02:16.780 with how I scored her before but where she is with a 30 I mean in terms of the like I don't even know

01:02:25.020 200 people who've done this podcast or whatever like 30 and above I think is remarkable I think

01:02:33.320 that really means those that's sort of like the upper echelon of like the tits out brigade

01:02:37.120 like oldie timey version and i think having her i think that she was the first 30 we had anyway

01:02:44.200 so she's i'm comfortable with her at a 30 you know like people who are like a bit higher than

01:02:49.660 her are people who are more scandalous like nefertiti like um margaret tudor like they both

01:02:55.280 have 31.5 for instance anyway yeah so empress matilda honestly it wasn't a story that i have

01:03:02.860 thought about in ages like i do have a thing i'm sure i've told you this before

01:03:06.500 where i sometimes i forget who i've even done podcasts on i have to like do a search of myself

01:03:11.440 and like go back through my own podcast app to be like did i do an episode on that i i remembered

01:03:16.700 sort of the broad story of matilda but not all the all the things the 11 matildas like the actual

01:03:23.120 good guys helping her out sometimes the the party ship like this is a great story told very well

01:03:29.660 by me in 2020. Anyway, so what is coming up next week is such a treat for your ears and it's coming

01:03:39.240 along with a big and exciting announcement. So next week, major episode, major returning guest

01:03:45.660 co-host, major topic, major news being announced next week. Um, it has to do with, uh, in-person

01:03:54.120 event. And so stay tuned next week for a very special episode of Vulgar History.

01:04:01.240 I have a mailing list. So that's the first thing. If you're going to do one thing,

01:04:05.320 if you're like, I like this podcast and I want to keep up with it, here's one thing you can do

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01:04:23.360 it's it's not overwhelming it's just a little a little taste so every month just kind of what are

01:04:28.200 the latest updates podcast news live event news news about my book i'm writing if you didn't know

01:04:35.380 i'm writing a book it comes out next year and uh book recommendations movie recommendations

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01:04:45.460 that's the one thing you can do so just sign up for the mailing list at vulgarhistory.com

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01:06:47.640 asshole and vulgar peace theater so vulgar peace theater is where alison epstein lana wood johnson 1.00

01:06:53.660 and i talk about costume dramas i don't think there is a costume drama about matilda which is 0.95

01:06:59.840 preposterous i do think that the house of the dragon tv show is quasi inspired by matilda i

01:07:07.660 think what's what's her name the blonde one rhinera yeah the one played by emma darcy is

01:07:14.760 sort of a matilda type figure where it's like she should have been the next monarch but she's not

01:07:19.320 she's a woman that's the closest we've gotten like how are we as a society there's still not

01:07:24.600 a movie about Matilda. Like not to mention how many movies there aren't about like queer people

01:07:30.460 from history and like black people from history and like so many things. But like, this is like

01:07:35.820 a white woman from English history who was a heroine. Like this is not a movie, like get it

01:07:41.380 together, buddy. Anyway, so Vulgar Peace Theater, you can listen to if you pledge $5 or more a month

01:07:47.020 on the Patreon. And what else? I have a sub stack. If you like to listen to, or if you like to read

01:07:56.220 words that I write, because my book isn't out yet, but if you want to be like, what's it like

01:08:01.060 to read something Anne wrote on sub stack every other week, I post essays about women from history.

01:08:06.540 I'll probably do one about Matilda because after redoing this episode, I was just like,

01:08:10.280 I ride for this woman. I am obsessed with Matilda. Just like the Fredegand adjacent energy

01:08:15.020 has me excited. Anyway, if you want to read my feminist history essays, you can subscribe to

01:08:19.780 those vulgarhistory.substack.com. We also have a beautiful brand partner, Common Era Jewelry,

01:08:27.620 which is a woman owned small business that makes beautiful jewelry inspired by history and by women

01:08:33.400 from history. And I do know that Tori, the owner, she's got new pieces are coming out. I'm always

01:08:39.660 like, can you just like give me a preview? Can you let me know who it is? I don't get previews,

01:08:43.600 even though we're brand partner, maybe one day there'll be a Matilda design. I don't know. She

01:08:48.680 really goes for people from history who are fairly well-known. How well-known is Matilda? I'm going

01:08:53.780 to say I can't assess this anymore because to me, Fred again is the most famous woman in all of

01:09:00.280 history, but the average person might not know who it is. But there are amazing people whose faces

01:09:06.080 are designed into beautiful necklaces and rings from common era. So there's people we've talked

01:09:11.100 about on the podcast. Agrippina is there, Hatshepsut is there, Cleopatra, Boudicca,

01:09:17.080 Anne Boleyn is there, as well as mythological figures like Medusa and Aphrodite. For all my

01:09:25.320 sapphics out there, there is a sappho design as well. And these pieces from Common Ear Jewelry

01:09:31.700 are available in solid gold, as well as in more affordable gold vermeil. And vulgar history

01:09:36.940 listeners, get 15% off your order from Common Era by going to commonera.com slash vulgar or

01:09:45.020 using code vulgar at checkout. And if you want to really show someone you love them,

01:09:52.560 and if that, maybe that person's yourself, like show self-love to yourself with vulgar history

01:09:57.240 merchandise. If you're in America, you can go to our American store, which is vulgarhistory.com

01:10:02.540 slash store. Or if you're outside the US, you can also go to vulgarhistory.redbubble.com,

01:10:08.860 which is our international store, because I know people listen to this from various different

01:10:13.180 places and we want the shipping to be the best for everybody. And that's where there's two

01:10:17.680 different stores. When I was first doing this podcast before I was working with actual artists

01:10:24.480 who I pay for their beautiful designs, it was me and like Microsoft paint. And I was like

01:10:29.060 designing things, having a nice time, not the most artistically stimulating, but you know what,

01:10:33.800 the classic, classic Velcrochristian merchandise. The design I made at that time, because I tried

01:10:38.180 to make a shirt design for every episode, which was a ridiculous thing, but also kind of a fun

01:10:43.820 project for me. The one for Empress Matilda, I believe was just plain white, like just white,

01:10:50.240 just plain, like a t-shirt that's white. And then it said in small letters, like Empress Matilda

01:10:54.380 escaping in the snow or something like that. I found it hilarious. It's like in so many cities

01:10:59.960 that have inclement weather, you can buy those postcards that are just like gray and it's like

01:11:04.820 London on a foggy day or whatever. Anyway, that was a design I did. Do you want me to bring it

01:11:10.260 back? Let me know. You can get in touch with me at the form. Well, about that, about anything.

01:11:16.420 If you go to vulgarhistory.com, there's a little button that says contact me and then that sends

01:11:20.180 an email to me. And then you can let me know what you're thinking of. And if you want this classic

01:11:25.080 design back in the Vulgar History store, I will get an actual artist to design it. And yeah, I'm

01:11:31.120 on various social medias and you can contact me in those ways as well. I'm on Blue Sky, I'm on

01:11:35.860 Instagram, I'm on threads. Just look at Vulgar History Podcast and there I will be. Next week,

01:11:41.800 major episode, huge news, a guest you're going to all be so happy to hear from. And I'm really

01:11:49.260 excited for you to finally be able to tell you what this guest and I have to tell you.

01:11:53.680 So until next time, channel Matilda, you know, just like put your enemies in chains, 1.00

01:12:01.520 trap them in castles, put on white, escape in the snow and just like fuck off the patriarchy 1.00

01:12:08.680 today and all days. And until next time, keep your pants on and your tits out. 1.00

01:12:13.700 vulgar history is researched written and hosted by ann foster that's me the editor is christina 0.99

01:12:21.760 lumagi theme music is by the severn duo the vulgar history show image is by deborah wong

01:12:27.780 transcripts are written by avilene malik find transcripts of recent episodes at vulgarhistory.com

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Vulgar History - February 12, 2025

Women Leaders, part 5： Almost-Queen Matilda (Rerelease)

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