Breaking the Boy Code - Inside, I Really Feel Hurt： Boys and Islamophobia

00:00:00.000 Okay, so I am an Amini Muslim, and like, every, um, every religion has some type of stereotypes.

00:00:08.780 Like, you gotta be honest, and like, um, I just want to explain something that

00:00:12.380 every stereotype has some truth in it, or else it wouldn't be a stereotype in the first place. 0.92

00:00:19.680 Like, um, like, Muslim terrorists, there are some Muslim terrorists, I mean, like, a lot,

00:00:24.920 but like, it's not like, really like, North America, where I live, like, 0.98

00:00:28.000 so like please don't use that against us this is reyhan you're listening to breaking the boycote

00:00:35.180 since october of 2018 i've been part of a community of facilitators in toronto called

00:00:58.120 the art of facilitation with an organization called partners for youth empowerment if we've

00:01:02.920 had any like actual conversations, I probably talked about it because I tend to tell everybody

00:01:08.260 about this course and about this community. So it was with this community a couple months ago that

00:01:14.340 I revisited the art of questioning. If that's really the right way to put it, I'm not really

00:01:19.580 sure. But sort of exploring, well, what's the significance? What do questions unlock if all

00:01:24.680 you do is ask? And then the next month was both introspection and discussion about power. And

00:01:31.740 I was sort of lucky enough to end up in a circle with a bunch of women of color and mostly just

00:01:35.840 listen, you know, to what they had to say about power and hierarchy and their experiences of

00:01:40.460 racism in different workplaces. And those two experiences were part of the origin of this

00:01:45.860 episode, wondering what might I learn if I was able to have a conversation that really just

00:01:52.740 consisted of a lot of questions, with a boy of color talking about his identity and talking about

00:01:57.740 the intersections of masculinity and racism. And this conversation, this whole episode was

00:02:06.840 extremely eye-opening, both because of Rehan, who as you'll see is mature and reflective,

00:02:14.620 he's articulate about the feelings that he has about Islamophobia and his identity

00:02:18.240 within the context of Canadian multiculturalism, and because of Fatima, who's a youth worker with

00:02:24.480 the Edmonton Mennonite Center for Newcomers, and she was able to speak about racism both as an

00:02:29.060 educator supporting youth who are new to Canada and as a Muslim woman. Both of them just offered

00:02:35.640 me such a rich conversation. And in fact, they both touched on a lot of the same topics. So

00:02:40.420 for this episode, I'm going to try something a little bit different in intertwining their

00:02:45.020 conversations sort of together. So I'll start with Rehan explaining what it means to him to be

00:02:51.600 Muslim well there are a lot of Muslims but like I am not any Muslim so basically what that means

00:02:58.060 is like we're very very uh it's basically the same thing as other Muslims but the only difference

00:03:03.020 is that like we have like Khalifa's so so far we have five that's our fifth one and uh we believe

00:03:09.240 that God sent them as a messenger uh to like teach us but the other the other um types of Muslims

00:03:15.600 They also believe in, like, all that stuff. 0.54

00:03:18.240 But, like, I'm pretty sure, like, one of the main big differences is the Caliphas.

00:03:23.600 There's actually, like, a lot of fun activities.

00:03:25.840 Like, every year, we have, like, a local, a regional, and a national Isloma.

00:03:32.820 And Isloma is basically, like, when we all, like, join up and we do, like, activities together.

00:03:38.600 Like, summer, like, some question and answer sessions.

00:03:41.780 some like sport uh sport like competitions like basketball soccer etc and it's very fun in general

00:03:48.800 and like local is basically well like um your local like your street regional is like your

00:03:54.320 whole entire like uh like city i guess you could say and nassau is like a whole entire canada and

00:03:59.660 like it's very fun to like see and meet new people and like have fun and sometimes we and usually we

00:04:05.540 always uh sleep over there too and we just like have fun every muslim um i'm not gonna say like

00:04:11.520 every muslim because i don't know how about other people but like most of them muslim sorry um we

00:04:15.940 have like five prayers a day um and sometimes there's six uh it's called the hajit so the

00:04:22.360 hajit is like very very very early sometimes you get three four like latest to go with is five

00:04:27.640 probably and then we have fajr the earliest to probably go to four and like the latest to

00:04:32.340 probably go to seven or something like that around there zohar is always usually at two o'clock

00:04:36.800 usher is probably combined with zohar it's like five o'clock around there in the afternoon you

00:04:41.020 know um and uh then there's maghrib which is when the sun goes down and then there's isha which is

00:04:48.200 like very very late at night like usually like in summertime it's like 11 or 10 but in the winter

00:04:53.040 it's probably 7 um yeah and i forgot to mention sorry uh fudger it demonstrates that like it

00:04:59.780 shows that the sun is coming up like sunrise you're probably thinking oh it's really hard

00:05:05.960 because it's in urbic too right and like uh but like at first it was really hard when i was young

00:05:11.140 because you you have to like learn how to read namaz or prayers um like when you're seven usually

00:05:16.080 that's like your average age when you should um and like at that time i was always whining i was

00:05:20.620 like no mom i don't want to memorize it but as you like keep on praying it becomes easier and easier

00:05:25.520 so um yeah i also want to give you a background on fatima because what she does is really really

00:05:30.920 interesting and it's helpful to know what background she has so that you can better

00:05:35.160 understand the perspectives that she shares. So I work at the Edmonds and Mennonite Center

00:05:39.820 for Newcomers as a youth complex cases worker. So my role is to support newcomer students and

00:05:46.620 their families in school settings. So most of my clients are refugees just because I speak Arabic

00:05:52.880 and a lot of the refugees need an Arabic speaking worker. My role is part advocacy and part violence 1.00

00:05:59.960 prevention so we can get disclosures where you know the youth are telling us about some of the

00:06:04.500 challenges they're having at home but then also part of our role is advocacy with the school

00:06:09.160 so i'm helping the schools to understand the needs of the families of the youth

00:06:13.440 you know understanding the trauma that they went through why they might be behaving in certain

00:06:18.020 ways in a classroom and also helping the students understand you know the education system in

00:06:23.520 canada and navigating what their needs are to get to the goals that they want to achieve

00:06:27.780 my clients come to me either through community referrals or through the school referrals so

00:06:33.760 sometimes i'll have a principal or a teacher come to me and say there's a family that could

00:06:38.220 use some support also sometimes it comes through the children so they'll come to us and say hey

00:06:43.160 you look like me or you look like you understand my challenges can you help me talk to my teacher

00:06:47.620 about this because they're not understanding me or um you know challenges that are occurring

00:06:53.420 between students so um a lot of bullying things like that but we'll have the kids come to us and

00:06:58.080 ask for support and say i don't know how to go to my teacher about this but can you help me with it

00:07:02.740 Fatima has seen a lot of Islamophobia in schools, and she's been part of challenging it.

00:07:07.920 But first, I want you to listen to Rehan.

00:07:10.320 Before our conversation, I let him know that I wanted to ask him about Islamophobia.

00:07:14.400 And honestly, that was part of his reason to want to be part of the podcast, because he had a lot to say about it.

00:07:18.760 And listening to him, you can tell this is something that has been with him for a long time.

00:07:25.080 Like, it's not hypothetical.

00:07:26.960 it's a current you can hear that it's a current that runs from his family and

00:07:30.460 his mosque through his class at school directly to his heart I just think about 0.93

00:07:38.120 it the stereotypes and the myths about everyone like oh women are so

00:07:42.500 oppressive in Islam and men do all the work and like you can't be like a citizen

00:07:49.280 to like your country like for example like if you live in Canada like me you 0.98

00:07:53.720 can't be a Canadian citizen because you're like Asian or something or 1.00

00:07:56.400 themselves and like the one that like hits me the most is that oh all muslims are terrorists 0.99

00:08:01.740 so this was when like isis was becoming a big thing and like it was like elevating and like 0.94

00:08:08.360 it was becoming famous on the news and then that's when the stereotype really became famous

00:08:12.660 muslim terrorist like sometimes when i'm just talking and having fun because they just like 0.60

00:08:18.040 this joke going on right now like nowadays it's like oh school shooter and like i don't know why 0.97

00:08:22.720 But for some reason, someone always has to bring up the, like, the topic or, like, Muslim cherished or something.

00:08:29.240 Like, it's only one group.

00:08:30.840 Like, why do you think that's every single one of us?

00:08:33.620 That really hurts my feelings emotionally.

00:08:35.820 Because, like, people, and even if they say it as a joke, it still hurts me.

00:08:39.100 Like, some people in my class are like, oh, oh, no, school shooter, cherished Muslims.

00:08:43.100 Like, I laugh along with them, but inside, I really feel hurt.

00:08:47.480 And at first, I was okay with it, too.

00:08:49.380 If I want to be honest, I was actually seeing it, too.

00:08:51.920 Because I thought it was a joke and everything.

00:08:53.660 But that was when I was young.

00:08:54.480 But now that I've matured, I realized that, like, you shouldn't say it.

00:09:00.260 Like, because you're really talking about yourself in a way. 0.97

00:09:02.880 You're saying, like, Muslim terrorists. 0.99

00:09:04.100 You're saying that you're a terrorist yourself if you're Muslim. 0.98

00:09:06.740 And you shouldn't, like, really use it against yourself.

00:09:08.920 You should be proud of yourself, you know?

00:09:10.420 Have confidence.

00:09:12.940 Fatima's heard this kind of language, too.

00:09:14.760 And she's seen how these kinds of jokes and stereotypes influence young people in a number of different school settings.

00:09:20.040 She echoed a lot of what Rehan said. She elaborates on the impact of anti-Muslim

00:09:27.300 stereotypes for girls in particular, which is what Rehan is getting at, right, when he says,

00:09:32.660 the very first thing he said is the stereotype about women being so oppressed within Islam,

00:09:38.340 but he doesn't have any personal experiences with that, so at least not that he shared with me. So

00:09:43.120 Fatima really added a lot to that, and she also adds the perspective of both intentional and

00:09:49.160 unintentional racism from teachers and what that looks like when it's directed towards Muslim

00:09:54.000 students. A lot of the girls that I work with that wear hijab are called towel heads. They're told to take it off. There's been incidents where I've had girls come into my program after school and be like, someone just tried to rip my hijab off on the bus. 1.00

00:10:09.880 or, you know, someone physically attacked me on the bus 0.66

00:10:13.500 or verbally assaulted me.

00:10:15.340 We see a lot of that more with the girls 0.99

00:10:17.140 just because they're visually representing Muslim 0.99

00:10:20.660 when they're wearing she-has. 0.99

00:10:22.800 The boys, we see it as well once people hear their name 0.98

00:10:26.060 or they identify as Muslim.

00:10:27.880 They get a lot of similar comments.

00:10:31.100 Again, derogatory language,

00:10:34.040 telling people to go back to their country, things like that.

00:10:36.400 If you don't deserve to be here and go back to your country, 1.00

00:10:39.880 Actually, Go Back to Your Country is an interesting one

00:10:43.280 because we get that for refugees and for Canadian-born people of colour as well.

00:10:49.120 We see that a lot.

00:10:51.660 Yeah, a lot of just, like, comments and things.

00:10:53.660 A lot of that feeling, that need to, like, hide your identity

00:10:57.060 and feeling scared of people finding out who you are.

00:11:00.540 We see that a lot in the boys because of that.

00:11:04.180 Surprisingly, you know, the first thing that came to mind for me

00:11:06.980 when I asked that question earlier was the teachers.

00:11:10.600 So we do a lot of our role is advocacy with teachers

00:11:14.260 and, you know, having to have conversations of, like,

00:11:17.700 hey, what you said is not appropriate and not inclusive,

00:11:21.100 especially in a classroom setting.

00:11:23.100 So we do get a lot of teachers that make assumptions

00:11:25.180 and do project those onto the kids as well.

00:11:28.340 And then, of course, they come and they seek us out

00:11:30.800 and they're like, is this okay?

00:11:32.760 I'm not feeling comfortable with it.

00:11:34.280 Why am I not feeling comfortable with it?

00:11:36.040 And then, you know, it's my teacher. My teacher's supposed to make me feel comfortable. Am I overreacting? And a lot of, I guess I would say gaslighting of the kids just feeling like they're not valid in their concerns when it comes from educators.

00:11:52.520 We definitely get teachers that will, like, question, for example,

00:11:57.440 I was talking to one of my colleagues about this right before you called,

00:12:00.460 and she was telling me about how her daughter, when she was in school,

00:12:05.420 she put on pay-off because her friends all put it on and she just wanted to give it a try.

00:12:11.320 And when she went to school, she would have, her teacher would constantly comment of, like,

00:12:15.460 oh, you used to be so pretty and your hair was so nice and what a waste,

00:12:19.600 She said, did your parents force you to put that on?

00:12:23.340 And then to a point where the girl felt really uncomfortable and ended up taking it off because her teacher kept commenting about it.

00:12:30.440 And, you know, as my co-worker was sharing the story, it was not a shock to any of us.

00:12:36.100 We've all seen similar things before.

00:12:38.400 You know, it's those assumptions that because she's wearing hijab, that also means she can't do any of those things.

00:12:44.020 Or that assumption that because she's Muslim, her parents are telling her she can't do those things.

00:12:48.500 So it's like kind of that jumping to tell a girl not to listen to her parents

00:12:54.820 based on that teacher's assumption of what her parents are saying,

00:12:58.860 if that makes sense, and then challenging that,

00:13:01.160 even if it was never disclosed, but that was actually said in the home.

00:13:04.680 So even for, I mean, myself, I wear hijab and I work in schools, right?

00:13:08.580 And I do, as a professional and as a youth worker,

00:13:13.020 I get that assumption in schools where teachers will assume that I...

00:13:17.960 I'm not fully equipped for my job because I must be oppressed in some way where I must be, you know, biased to, for example, if I'm supporting a client who is having challenges with her parents or if she is disclosing violence, then some of the teachers might not trust me to be the best person to deal with it because they have the stereotype that I would side with the parents.

00:13:41.140 or so there's a lot of these things that come up um and the the thing with some of these

00:13:47.040 microaggressions is they come with um they come from a place or an intention of sincere support

00:13:54.200 um and you know a lot of people it's hard to challenge someone whose intentions are good

00:13:59.720 um it's a lot harder to challenge that than to challenge someone whose intentions are nasty

00:14:04.940 um so you know if i'm talking to a teacher and they're making these assumptions

00:14:08.480 and I challenge it, they may say, you know,

00:14:12.220 oh, but I just want to make sure she's safe

00:14:14.320 or I just want to look out for her best interests

00:14:16.140 without realizing that their assumptions are actually what's oppressive

00:14:20.720 or their assumption is taking away from the individual's best interests.

00:14:26.520 Anyone who works in education

00:14:28.420 or has raised kids through the education system

00:14:31.260 knows how immense of an impact teachers can have on their classroom.

00:14:36.360 so i asked fatima what teachers could do to become part of the solution rather than part of the

00:14:45.440 problem um the biggest thing that teachers can do is create space for dialogue and make sure it's

00:14:52.640 safe space for dialogue so you know encouraging opinions but making sure that those opinions are

00:14:58.660 not hurtful or offensive i think a lot of biases and assumptions people don't recognize they have

00:15:04.360 until they say them out loud.

00:15:06.720 So to actually respond to the question,

00:15:09.320 then they might realize that, okay, wait, this isn't appropriate

00:15:12.340 or this isn't logical or this isn't fair of what you're saying.

00:15:17.280 So it causes people to rethink what their comment was

00:15:21.160 and why they said it and what they really mean by it.

00:15:25.640 I find that representation is also huge.

00:15:29.400 You know, there was a school a couple years back

00:15:32.420 where it was an elementary school and some of the students wanted to fast during Ramadan.

00:15:39.120 And so they were fasting and the other students started taunting them

00:15:43.420 and drinking juice boxes in front of them and eating candy in front of them

00:15:47.420 and laughing about it and taunting them.

00:15:50.080 So the principal reached out to our team and said,

00:15:53.360 is there anyone that can come and talk about fasting

00:15:57.020 and talk about what's the purpose of Ramadan and why are these kids fasting?

00:16:02.420 maybe it'll help you know so what that principle did was create that opportunity to talk about it

00:16:07.720 created that space for dialogue um and so one of my co-workers went in and she spoke about you know

00:16:13.960 why why people fast during Ramadan and what the purpose is for it and you know she she at the time

00:16:20.640 described that the students went from feeling um very alienated and embarrassed and isolated

00:16:27.040 themselves to feeling very proud when they were hearing someone talk about it um you know they

00:16:32.780 sat there and they were like yep that that's what we follow and that's what we believe in and they

00:16:36.220 felt good about it um so just having that opportunity to like have someone represent

00:16:41.220 those kids because they may not feel the confidence to represent themselves um having someone speak

00:16:47.600 for them um with confidence helps them resonate that confidence within themselves i think it's

00:16:54.880 so valuable and important for kids to be able to see people um adults that they can relate to and

00:17:00.380 that can kind of give them the confidence that they're having struggles with themselves you

00:17:07.080 know seeing teachers ask those questions in a genuine and sincere way um not in an accusing

00:17:12.740 and like judgmental way um it makes them feel proud and excited to share who they are with

00:17:18.120 their teachers and if they feel safe with their teachers then they will feel safe with other

00:17:21.880 students. I really am a strong believer that teachers and principals set the tone of the

00:17:28.280 classroom. I've seen classrooms in very diverse schools where the teachers were not inclusive,

00:17:34.380 and that resonated immediately. And I've also seen the opposite, you know, where

00:17:38.460 the school itself might not be very diverse, but, you know, there's that one teacher that's very

00:17:44.240 inclusive and open to dialogue, and that resonates in the classroom as well. So it really is

00:17:50.480 dependent on the tone of the teacher set. In terms of like teachers equipping themselves,

00:17:56.200 I know that there's not a lot of training that goes into their undergraduate degree on these

00:18:01.320 topics. But, you know, there's additional professional development training that teachers

00:18:05.460 can take, lots of different opportunities for teachers to learn about newcomers,

00:18:10.280 to be able to understand their needs. So it's about, you know, the teachers looking for the

00:18:14.900 opportunities, creating a space for themselves to learn, so that they're able to also teach

00:18:19.760 their students what they've learned to share what they've learned and again to foster that

00:18:23.380 environment um there's also an organization here called the center for race and culture and so

00:18:29.420 they've developed a resource not specifically about Islamophobia but um about um like racism

00:18:36.440 and talking about racism in a classroom setting so they've developed an entire program um called

00:18:42.200 race and respect so it's embedded in the curriculum um and it goes hand in hand with

00:18:47.400 the Alberta curriculum and you know teachers can use activities from it in their classrooms again

00:18:53.600 to talk about racism to do it in an inclusive way and I think that's easily transferable to

00:18:58.480 conversations about Islamophobia as well. If you look up race and respect by the Center for Race

00:19:05.320 and Culture it's really not hard to find and it's a really cool resource and if you look at theme 2

00:19:10.120 which illustrates how stereotypes and prejudices are learned perpetuated and reinforced in our

00:19:14.560 Society, that's like the subtitle, there's an activity called Challenging Stereotypes.

00:19:20.900 And we can hear, and part of why I feel so privileged to create this podcast is because

00:19:25.760 getting the perspective from an educator, we can hear then firsthand what kind of difference

00:19:30.400 that would make, because it made a difference for Rehan. He makes the distinction between when he

00:19:37.940 was young and, I think he said something like, now that he's matured. And you can hear this

00:19:42.480 difference yourself. Something has shifted between when he was younger and how he feels now.

00:19:48.160 And that's significant because it wasn't just growth. Although, I mean, I can tell you he has

00:19:53.540 been changing and growing into a self-assured young man. There was a transformation of some kind

00:20:01.420 from hurt to confident. That doesn't happen on its own all the time. So for Rehan, part of that

00:20:11.360 transformation happened with an activity that was designed and facilitated by his English teacher

00:20:15.200 last year. And honestly, like listening to the details and having downloaded that resource,

00:20:20.880 like she might have gotten it from the Center for Race and Culture.

00:20:26.160 This is how Rayhan describes it. I just want to give an example of my teacher, my English teacher.

00:20:32.080 She made us a whole entire activity about stereotypes. And this activity I think will

00:20:37.280 help you and you should try it too what he did was he was like i don't care if it's this is mean

00:20:42.360 or i don't care if it's offend you but please write all the stereotypes that you know on a

00:20:47.960 piece of paper so what we did was i and me and my friends my friends and i sorry um we wrote like

00:20:54.600 like all the stereotypes that we knew on a piece of paper and like we probably laughed and i regret

00:21:00.460 like laughing like because after activity i learned something very special but like when we're writing

00:21:05.400 it down i was like really thinking like oh what kind of stereotypes could there be and then i

00:21:12.300 remember so many stereotypes i forgot about but as in point so as i was saying after we wrote all

00:21:17.640 the stereotypes our teacher was like we're all exploring like the different stereotypes and then

00:21:21.940 she wrote them down all together in one big really big piece of paper and then we're investigating

00:21:26.360 we're like are all of these stereotypes even true and then we're looking at them and we were like 1.00

00:21:33.140 saying that there's like one um i'm gonna give you an example black people are always poor 0.92

00:21:37.580 and black people are always robbers i'm just i'm sorry if i'm finding black people in general 1.00

00:21:41.620 but like that's like the only ones i can think of right now but like it's not really fair and i 1.00

00:21:46.740 think that will like very like encourage you to like stop like thinking about stereotypes and

00:21:52.700 stop saying them out loud and like i very i thank my english teacher for doing this so much

00:21:57.400 because that's that actually is what encouraged me to stop like talking about stereotypes and

00:22:01.800 making like jokes about them in general like before i used to be like a lot of walk bird like

00:22:07.880 all the summer to scream that stuff and i was like uh i just used to say oh school shooter muslim

00:22:11.980 shooter like whatever but like then that activity really like hurt me and like i was like imagine if

00:22:17.720 i was in their shoes imagine how i would feel so like since that day i really stopped like i tried

00:22:23.060 my best to stop like doing stereotypes and i think you should try that in general too i used to ask

00:22:27.680 your teachers and school you should try with your friends or just in general that would help you to

00:22:31.900 like stop like uh saying stereotypes and stop offending other people as with other stereotypes

00:22:37.620 part of the seriousness of islamophobia is that it's not just jokes in the hallway it also manifests

00:22:46.080 in real violence i did a bit of like honestly i did the shortest bit of research and found that

00:22:52.740 a poll in 2015 found that 44% of Canadians disliked Muslims, with anti-Muslim sentiment

00:22:59.540 on the rise and the highest rates of anti-Muslim sentiment in Quebec. Statistics Canada found

00:23:05.580 that hate crimes against Muslims in Canada grew 253% from 2012 to 2015, with an all-time

00:23:12.540 high in 2017. 2017, when the Quebec City mosque shooting at the Islamic Cultural Center of

00:23:23.760 Quebec ended with six worshippers being killed and 19 injured. And the name of the shooter,

00:23:33.700 Alex Bissonnette, was written on the ammunition cartridges used to kill 50 and injure another

00:23:39.900 Muslims in the Christ Church massacre in 2019. So it's real violence, and that has had an effect

00:23:48.660 on Rehan as well. I was just like looking up the other day, you know, at some stuff, and then I see

00:23:54.360 like, oh, Christ Church, it's actually in New Zealand, and this is like this year too in March,

00:24:00.540 and I saw like 49 people shot and dead. Like that's probably like one of the most like amount

00:24:07.780 of people i've seen that in the mosque and like i've seen some videos on twitter about it too

00:24:11.800 the guy was like a recording or something i don't really remember clearly but like like that kind of

00:24:17.220 stuff like the reason why um it's so many people is because when you're reading your prayers

00:24:22.140 like you just can't stop unless it's a really really big emergency like you can't stop right

00:24:26.980 and like some people i'm pretty sure stopped and they just ran away but the people who are really

00:24:32.040 religious i'm pretty sure when they were praying and like they heard that there's like a shooter

00:24:35.260 or something they were probably praying to god like so much like oh god please don't let them

00:24:39.540 sue me please don't and god please i love you etc and sadly it happened to them you know

00:24:46.540 their time was gone and like it's just very sad to see this stuff happen and i hope this never

00:24:52.320 happens again i actually thought about this like a few like a really long time ago because the

00:24:58.340 first time i actually heard about a school shooting i mean i was sorry sorry um like a

00:25:02.120 moth shooting was like probably when I was 10 because that's like one of the biggest uh moth

00:25:06.920 shootings I forgot what it was I'm sorry um you can't inform me about that but I remember it

00:25:11.140 happened and there's a video about it I like that night I actually started crying because I was like

00:25:16.320 oh what has that ever happened to me I like I also like as I said before imagine if you were

00:25:22.080 in the person's shoes that people like the people died like imagine if you were praying and a guy

00:25:26.740 who was shooting and I don't know if I would do if I would like just leave the prayer like which

00:25:31.860 is like really bad but usually only emergency i guess as emergency or if i would keep on praying

00:25:36.100 and pray to god like please don't make me die and like it's just very scary in general i hope it

00:25:41.160 never happens to me and i hope it never happens to anyone and like just stay safe that's the main

00:25:46.680 key just always stay safe and always like be with someone you trust i don't think i've heard a 13

00:25:53.040 year old urging people to stay safe before and that probably speaks to my white privilege like

00:25:59.560 when he talks about hearing about a shooting at age 10 that by the way about three years ago is

00:26:04.480 the Quebec shooting that he's talking about well I cried when I was 10 but I did not cry because I

00:26:10.440 was scared of being killed at my place of worship that's it that was so far that was not even close

00:26:17.120 to possible in my world and I'm not saying that to feel sorry for him but to acknowledge that there

00:26:22.860 is a blind spot in my understanding of his identity in the ways that we can relate to each

00:26:28.040 other. There is learning that I have to do in order to better understand who he is and how I

00:26:33.060 can support him effectively. And this is part of why talking to Fatima was so meaningful, because

00:26:38.760 she could speak about it, and she could speak about it as an educator to me. And honestly,

00:26:45.880 for her, the sensation of violence was even more tangible for her youth, because many of them are 1.00

00:26:49.580 refugees who have flood violence and come to Canada. Specifically with the Christ Church one, 1.00

00:26:56.320 because it was such a big act of violence 1.00

00:26:59.420 that I remember Ramadan was right around the corner

00:27:03.260 and people were wondering, can we go to the mosque?

00:27:06.660 Can we go pray during Ramadan?

00:27:08.220 Are we going to have to be terrified for our lives?

00:27:10.780 And so many people across the community, the Muslim community,

00:27:15.180 youth, adults, everybody was terrified.

00:27:19.520 Like, is this safe to go to the mosque?

00:27:21.800 I know a lot of the mosques here in Edmonton

00:27:24.060 amplified their security at that time.

00:27:26.320 Um, during our Haid prayers, we had the Edmonton police, um, having presence around, uh, the

00:27:34.480 mosque for the Haid prayer because the prayer, the Haid prayer usually gets a large number

00:27:38.580 of people.

00:27:39.100 I would say, um, our biggest mosque here is around 20,000 people, uh, coming out for the

00:27:44.560 Haid prayers.

00:27:45.140 So there was a lot of police presence to make sure people feel safe.

00:27:49.020 Um, you know, the police helicopter was there and it's like, it's this feeling of comfort,

00:27:54.780 but it's also really scary

00:27:56.840 that this is what it's come to

00:27:58.180 and those were a lot of the feelings being resonated

00:28:00.580 by the youth

00:28:01.360 I've heard students saying

00:28:03.840 I'm not going to the prayers this year

00:28:06.140 I'm scared

00:28:06.680 we fled for more not to come and put ourselves

00:28:10.380 in more danger 0.99

00:28:11.060 we're not going to the mosque this year

00:28:12.900 so a lot of people have stayed home that year

00:28:15.380 scared to go

00:28:16.880 in terms of

00:28:19.340 violence in general

00:28:21.560 a lot of my students

00:28:23.560 my clients

00:28:24.780 being refugees have shared stories of the war in Syria and you know the stories like things you

00:28:32.220 want to hear of in movies um they're telling you as if it was like a dream you know they're telling

00:28:38.900 you everything that they've witnessed um you know those who've witnessed their parents being

00:28:43.160 assassinated and those who have lost lives themselves and things like that um and yet

00:28:49.460 they're still living in fear um you know a lot of them say like that we came to Canada we thought

00:28:54.140 we were going to be safe but then we came here and there's a lot of hatred here i'm surprised by

00:28:59.060 it we never expected we thought we always thought canada was multicultural and we wouldn't face that

00:29:04.100 here but people are yelling at us in the street to go home and people are threatening us and

00:29:08.540 attacking us in the streets like we don't know we don't feel safe um so we've definitely heard

00:29:13.880 a lot of comments like that um and then of course there's the trauma right like that

00:29:18.700 triggers um i remember actually on new year's eve i was watching the fireworks and there was

00:29:25.140 a syrian family you know standing nearby and i i heard one of the kids saying to their parents

00:29:31.300 of like oh this sounds just like back home and you know he wasn't referring to fireworks back

00:29:36.200 home he was referring to the gunfire um you know and also talking about like there was a specific

00:29:42.620 type of fireworks where i guess it's like kind of drops down it looks like it's raining

00:29:47.300 and then they commented, they're like,

00:29:50.700 oh, this is like when there was chemical attacks on us.

00:29:53.440 And so that trauma is already there.

00:29:55.840 It's carried with them.

00:29:57.880 And the fact that they're still making these comments

00:30:00.660 and still feeling unsafe shows that the fear isn't completely gone

00:30:04.220 and they're not completely safe just yet.

00:30:07.740 And so comments like that are very, very common

00:30:10.760 in the Muslim community for sure,

00:30:12.320 especially within refugee circles.

00:30:15.100 That's an important perspective to hear.

00:30:17.300 And I guess I haven't mentioned this on the podcast, but in 2017, I bicycled across the country doing a documentary project about the 150th anniversary.

00:30:26.320 And I can tell you, based on all the conversations and research that I did, that a lot of Canadians like to pride ourselves on our multicultural society and on our work to support refugees, especially in the last few years and especially in comparison to the United States.

00:30:41.080 but you can hear that perspective we thought we fled violence and but violence doesn't end just

00:30:47.680 because you cross a border and just because we can point to a historical event and say that was

00:30:53.460 islamophobia manifested in violence doesn't mean that it's not still happening now

00:30:58.220 this is to some extent the point in the conversation where rehan really started leading

00:31:03.980 the way um i have a sense that rather than talking about his memories of violence that

00:31:10.680 happened three years ago, it was important for him to talk about violence that is happening right now.

00:31:17.640 Okay, can I just do one? Yeah. So I just want to add on, this is like a very, very important thing

00:31:25.740 that I need you to listen very closely. So when a white person kills a black person, it's called 0.96

00:31:31.320 self-defense. When a black person kills a white person, it's called murder. When a black person 0.99

00:31:36.520 kills black person, it's gang violence. When white people kill white people, it's an accident. When 1.00

00:31:42.040 Muslim people kill white people, it's terrorist. That's what I was mentioning before. And when 1.00

00:31:48.280 white people kill Muslims, it's mental health issues. Most of the time, they just want to do 1.00

00:31:53.280 it because they hate Muslims. And that's not fair. And the most important one is that when the 0.94

00:31:59.220 Chinese government holocaust against Muslim, people just do world silence. And this leads me 0.70

00:32:04.620 on to my next point is the chinese holocaust on muslims they've been raping them sexually 0.99

00:32:11.340 they've been forcing them to do stuff they don't want to like changing their religion marrying 0.99

00:32:16.520 like someone who isn't muslim like that's okay but like it's it's their choice if they want to

00:32:22.040 do that or not and they were just doing like they've been making them suffer like in multiple

00:32:26.820 of ways and um the other day i saw a video right it was like a chinese officer she was whipping a

00:32:34.820 muslim uh muslim guy and this muslim guy was also chinese right and like he was getting whipped

00:32:40.280 his blood all over him and like he was like saying allahu akbar god please save me and all

00:32:46.020 means like god is the greatest and like he was praying for his life basically and he was crying

00:32:53.380 and he was screaming.

00:32:55.120 And it just, like, I was about to, like, almost cry,

00:32:58.000 but, like, after I just started thinking about some good stuff,

00:33:01.340 and, like, it just really hurt me.

00:33:02.660 How would it be different for you to watch something like that

00:33:04.820 compared to, like, someone like me?

00:33:06.660 Because I don't have anything in common with him.

00:33:08.240 I think it's sad.

00:33:09.020 Like, I would be sad and be like, that's violent.

00:33:10.380 Honestly, I think, like, the similarities from both of us

00:33:14.360 is that we would both be sad,

00:33:16.700 but I think that me personally, I would feel more sad

00:33:21.320 and I would feel it more emotionally and more sensitively

00:33:24.620 because it's like, imagine if, like, people were discriminating you

00:33:30.140 because of a stereotype, just because of a rumor.

00:33:33.440 It's the same thing as saying, like, there's another really famous stereotype.

00:33:37.300 It's saying that homeless people are always homeless because of drugs.

00:33:41.440 And sometimes that is true, but sometimes it's not their fault.

00:33:44.540 Sometimes it's bankruptcy, sometimes they get robbed,

00:33:46.640 sometimes there's so many options.

00:33:48.500 but like you just can't make stereotypes like and even if you do make a stereotype please like

00:33:54.220 do something about it you know like it's just not fair to others because like imagine if you

00:33:58.120 were in their case imagine if you were in their shoes imagine how you would feel if someone was

00:34:02.180 saying that to you and you i'm pretty sure you would be like feeling like very emotionally

00:34:07.140 like sensitive and like you would want to cry like almost too i think the first step the very

00:34:13.520 first step if you have social media and if you don't have social media but i'm gonna start off

00:34:17.700 with social media if you do have social media please share it i don't care if you feel embarrassed

00:34:23.580 don't like care what other people think like at first i was embarrassed to like share this problem

00:34:28.300 too because what if people were like oh like this isn't even true the news hasn't said it so why are

00:34:32.980 you saying it and like like even if like even if the news doesn't say it even if the news is silent

00:34:38.320 you should act upon it and even if you don't have social media just tell your friends your family

00:34:43.840 and like reach out to people you know do something about it like even if someone judges you don't

00:34:49.080 care about people how about people judge you you're yourself you get to do whatever you want

00:34:53.500 and you get to act however you want it's your life you make your own rules second step once

00:34:58.960 you've done that take a bigger responsibility and take a more um take a bigger act upon yourself

00:35:05.900 and like maybe that could be like oh protesting getting a permit to like protest

00:35:10.260 like your city hall or wherever you live just like force your government to reach out to like

00:35:15.900 your um like your provincial government and then like your national government and then you could

00:35:21.700 just like try to force china and like investigate into this problem like don't just like believe the

00:35:27.180 news because the news like the other day they're saying oh china says that like you're not really 0.51

00:35:31.820 doing a holocaust nothing's happening you're just like uh like like looking at new stuff etc like

00:35:37.160 blah blah blah well i don't believe them because even if it isn't true at least try and investigate

00:35:42.880 into this problem because even if it's a teeny weeny tiny bit of like that you think it's gonna

00:35:48.360 be true like just just go for it act upon it you know and like third like even if they aren't

00:35:53.820 listening like the chinese holocaust isn't the only big part about islamophobic like islam in

00:36:00.560 general like all their problems that they're facing there have been multiple like over like

00:36:05.060 a thousand like problems that they've been facing like um like stereotypes about women being

00:36:10.080 oppressive like i probably stated before and like how men do all the work and like it's just like

00:36:15.300 not fair so like i encourage you all to go up like search up or like even if you can't search

00:36:20.360 up just ask your friends if there are any muslim friends ask anyone in general because i'm pretty

00:36:24.480 sure like one out of five people like ask are probably gonna know about muslims and what they

00:36:28.320 are and who they are and what they do and what they've been faced in the history so i just ask

00:36:32.840 them like like can you please explain to me like what's been going on in your history

00:36:37.160 and like i'm pretty sure that will encourage you to do something about the chinese holocaust

00:36:41.280 like protesting you're getting a glimpse of the kind of person that reihan is aware right of the

00:36:48.820 world around him willing to speak his mind brave enough to stand up for someone that needs it

00:36:54.440 honestly he's a good um example of the reason that i love working with the young generation

00:37:01.280 Like, for example, some of his knowledge coming from social media.

00:37:05.120 I can tell you that I've learned about Islamophobia and racism from what he posts online. 0.52

00:37:09.800 Like that white kills black set of analyses of racism in the media was from a meme that he shared on Instagram.

00:37:17.560 And he talks about seeing videos on Twitter. 0.92

00:37:19.520 I know that there was a video about the Uyghur concentration camps that trended on TikTok.

00:37:23.500 And that raised a lot of awareness.

00:37:25.820 But he isn't just informed about what's going on.

00:37:28.400 And he is correct about what's going on, by the way.

00:37:31.100 You can look all that up.

00:37:32.440 He also has concrete ideas for what to do that are both idealistic and practical, like

00:37:38.440 social media.

00:37:39.440 Look it up.

00:37:40.440 Share about it.

00:37:41.440 Tell your friends.

00:37:42.440 He knows that you need to get a permit to organize a protest.

00:37:45.880 He knows that learning about Islam and challenging stereotypes might be a place to start for

00:37:50.100 some people, and that that could have a direct impact on their awareness of and compassion

00:37:54.360 for what's going on in China right now.

00:37:58.400 According to Fatima, Rehan's commitment to speaking up about what's happening

00:38:01.740 and his intuition that connecting and educating might help end stereotypes about Islam

00:38:06.220 are both resonated in the larger Muslim community.

00:38:10.180 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something talked about in Muslim circles.

00:38:13.620 I see it a lot on social media, but not in mainstream media.

00:38:18.700 I think this, with many other challenges happening in Muslim countries,

00:38:25.240 whether it's in Somalia or it's in the Middle East or wherever it is,

00:38:30.800 I think there's this kind of known feeling that if it's happening to Muslims,

00:38:36.480 it's not going to make it to the mainstream media.

00:38:39.160 Muslims are only ever shown in the mainstream media if they're the perpetrators, really.

00:38:44.480 So it's that this awareness piece or this passion to raise that awareness

00:38:49.380 is very resonated in the community in the sense of, like,

00:38:54.760 Why isn't this being talked about?

00:38:56.760 Why isn't this on the forefront?

00:38:58.680 There's literally people being put in concentration camps

00:39:02.200 and being murdered and being very violently assaulted.

00:39:10.360 Why is this not on the forefront of the news?

00:39:12.840 You know, why is this not being spoken about?

00:39:15.180 And so there's that feeling of, like,

00:39:16.940 does this mean because they're Muslim their lives don't matter?

00:39:20.660 Does this mean that because they're Muslim we don't talk about it, 0.74

00:39:22.920 we don't care?

00:39:24.760 It's very similar to a lot of other challenges.

00:39:28.680 Feeling like Muslims or people of colour from any other country actually is, you know, any violence is less important than if it was against a Western country, an American or a Canadian.

00:39:45.660 That would be a lot more spoken about and valued and given the respect than it is otherwise.

00:39:53.200 So, yeah, that feeling of, like, needing to raise awareness has really heavily resonated in the Muslim community.

00:40:00.260 Right now, about the Muslims in China, there's also some stuff going on in Somalia.

00:40:05.000 You know, all of that is being talked about in the Muslim community, but unfortunately, not much anywhere else, really.

00:40:10.260 um so yeah i think i you know it's it actually warmed my heart that you said he he wanted to

00:40:16.760 mention that because you know that shows that he saw a platform and an opportunity to speak about

00:40:22.040 something that's not being spoken about and he you know with confidence spoke about it so that's

00:40:27.100 that tells you he's looking for that platform to speak if ending violence was as simple as

00:40:33.820 raising awareness. Rayhan would probably have talked about becoming a journalist

00:40:38.680 or some sort of influencer but the last major thing that he talked about was the

00:40:43.740 potential of having diverse friend groups and learning about other cultures.

00:40:51.000 You get the feeling that with all the idealism and first-hand knowledge of a

00:40:55.780 young second-generation immigrant he believes in how good his country could

00:41:00.500 be. You can really hear that. In talking about his generation, he's carrying the wisdom of someone

00:41:06.640 like Maya Angelou. I don't know what the poem is called, but the quote is, we are more alike

00:41:12.000 than we are unalike. When you have like friends that are from different cultures, you actually

00:41:18.120 learn a lot about it. And it's not just that, I learned like a lot of similarities. Like I have

00:41:23.640 one friend, he's from Turkish, he's Turkish, right? And basically, like I always taught Turkish

00:41:29.400 people turkish people like different from us you know like uh they just like they're probably some

00:41:34.500 of them are muslims but like i didn't think there's really religious around that stuff and i'm sorry

00:41:38.960 but it's all kind of stereotypes right as i was saying before and it's all these rumors being

00:41:42.500 spread but one of my friends um he's turkish and he's telling me he's like most of the same cultural

00:41:47.380 food as me he like he's also muslim and even though he isn't as religious as me he still does

00:41:52.160 like some religious stuff and it's not just that i have like a lot of christian friends um that's

00:41:57.840 why like i know a lot about like churches and like i know like that the bible uh like we have

00:42:03.200 like a lot of similar stuff because like the four books that god gave us if you do believe in god

00:42:08.460 i'm sorry if you don't um that's okay too but like um like my mom told me like in the quran

00:42:13.700 that's our religious book it says like we got that like apparently got the last um religious

00:42:18.980 book is four right and like the bible i don't know the order but i think like the jewish one

00:42:23.520 was first correct me if i'm wrong but i'm sorry i was called like a torturer i think and then i

00:42:28.700 forgot the second one it's probably the bible or uh another culture i forgot and the last one is

00:42:33.420 the kron so and it was saying like in the olden days i honestly still do it but like you're

00:42:40.140 encouraged to read all four books because all talking about like god like even though it's

00:42:45.460 all these similar things things but like my my mom was telling me like in the kron like

00:42:50.200 and the bible like um it says like it encourages you to like go on and like move to the next book

00:42:56.040 which is the Quran and I'm just very grateful that I have like uh diverse friends and I live

00:43:01.360 in this country because if I live like a like a probably an Asian country because most Asian

00:43:05.860 countries are like only like one uh culture and uh I'm just very grateful that I live here because

00:43:12.360 I get to know like a lot of people I get to know a lot of things and I get to go like some other

00:43:17.140 like activities because i have a friend um he's actually like uh korean but he's also christian

00:43:22.100 at the same time he's uh i actually went to waterline with him and his church and like i

00:43:26.880 really bonded to like them and like at first i always thought that oh uh priest always had to

00:43:31.980 wear like that black shoe and like it's all kind of stereotypes right and like he came with like

00:43:36.660 a t-shirt like a polo t-shirt like normal clothes i'm like why aren't you wearing like a priest

00:43:40.840 like uniform like he's like excuse me i'm like oh i'm sorry i thought that you guys you guys

00:43:45.320 you're aware and like i felt like very embarrassed because i don't want to kid that's what everyone

00:43:49.160 thinks but like i'm really grateful for this opportunity that like i get to like meet other

00:43:54.520 people and like i get to like share my experiences that's what i love the most i think the most

00:44:00.840 important thing i'm very grateful for this that our generation has been learning a lot and a lot

00:44:07.320 about other cultures in general like um we had like a guest speaker of school once for like first

00:44:12.600 nation she's like an author and she was saying like you guys like not even my muslim generation

00:44:17.960 but just my generation the whole entire world in general so you're saying you guys are so lucky

00:44:23.380 that you guys are learning about first at first nations because what if it was like my age we

00:44:28.200 like barely learned about these things we like because at that time like residential schools

00:44:32.140 were still going on all the stuff and like it was very sad to hear and like i'm just very grateful

00:44:38.160 that we're learning about other cultures

00:44:39.860 because, like, Pakistan,

00:44:41.900 like, that's where all my background came from.

00:44:44.120 It's, like, a Muslim country,

00:44:45.540 like, a Muslim country in general, right?

00:44:48.380 But in Canada,

00:44:50.020 it's, like, a multicultural country, right?

00:44:53.440 I, like, I don't know.

00:44:54.260 I'm not sure if America is,

00:44:55.340 but all I know is, like,

00:44:56.180 there's a lot of multicultural people there, too.

00:44:58.240 So I'm just very grateful

00:44:59.580 that we get the opportunity

00:45:00.460 to learn about other cultures.

00:45:02.380 And not just a First Nation in general.

00:45:03.760 That's just the most important one.

00:45:05.340 I'm just very grateful for this opportunity.

00:45:06.940 I just want to thank all my teachers, my volunteer school, and everything in my community.

00:45:11.940 One of the educators that I follow on Twitter wrote an article in the New York Times about

00:45:15.940 white supremacists and the processes of recruiting young boys to be part of the alt-right.

00:45:22.940 And in that article she quotes Jackson Katz, who said,

00:45:27.940 To counteract the seductiveness of that appeal from the right, we need to offer them a better definition of strength.

00:45:33.940 strength. That true strength resides in respecting and lifting up others, not

00:45:38.500 seeking to dominate them." And I love that intersection of our

00:45:46.880 concepts of masculinity and our commitment to challenging white

00:45:55.820 supremacy and other patterns of domination. It's an important connection

00:45:59.980 to be made. The last thing that I want to touch on sort of in response to this

00:46:04.300 quote is the centrality of friendship because peer groups, like anybody with

00:46:09.200 kids knows, peer groups are a large part of young people's lives and often to some

00:46:13.240 extent their first experience of making choices about respect and lifting up

00:46:17.620 others, those things happen through friendship. First of all Fatima talks

00:46:23.380 about the importance of diversity within friend groups and there's such an

00:46:27.220 an eye-opening perspective that I also think could be brought to a completely different

00:46:31.220 analysis because what she's talking about is trauma-based friendships and how that basically

00:46:37.160 becomes the foundation of your identity.

00:46:38.640 And I think that could be totally applied to boys who are drawn to white supremacy or

00:46:43.500 the men's rights advocacy groups on Reddit and other places online.

00:46:48.380 In the interest of time, I'm going to leave it at that, but just put that in your mind.

00:46:51.860 Secondly, we have Rehan talking about how his friends have been changed by his advocacy

00:46:55.720 for Uyghur Muslims and how he has been changed by having true friends definitely yeah like we have

00:47:02.840 so I run a program called Global Girls and it's a program for immigrant teen girls and so a lot

00:47:10.560 of our participants are Muslim from Syria from Somali and from those are the two predominant

00:47:16.580 groups that attend but also from other countries as well and I remember one day a girl came into

00:47:23.120 the program and was crying and she's like someone just tried to rip my sister's tree job off on the

00:47:27.480 bus um so this is what i was referring to earlier in our conversation and you know immediately

00:47:33.760 girls who've never met each other before and for the first time all just

00:47:38.360 came together to be an emotional support in being with and for each other um not because

00:47:45.000 as I've been

00:47:48.540 or that those friendships are immediately formed

00:47:52.760 which is I mean it's

00:47:56.220 beautiful in the sense that they've developed these friendships but it's also sad that that's what they had

00:48:00.580 in common to develop a friendship over whereas everyone else would develop a friendship

00:48:04.780 over common interests with more common barriers or common

00:48:08.400 challenges that they're facing and since then we've had conversations

00:48:12.680 with the girls of like how do you how do you what makes you feel safe when you're on the bus what

00:48:18.060 makes you feel safe when you're in transit um and again a lot of them say like traveling in groups

00:48:23.820 being around other people not feeling alone um they've shared stories of being groped and being

00:48:29.660 you know everything that women are harassed with everything that women are harassed with

00:48:34.360 um on in public spaces and on top of that that's on the phobia and on top of that the racism and 0.98

00:48:40.820 the comments. So the girls are pretty open about their experiences, but the sad thing is every

00:48:47.800 single one of them has a story, and that's the part that's heartbreaking. We definitely see a

00:48:54.740 lot of the students engaging with students of diverse backgrounds and religions, and I think

00:48:59.720 it's very beneficial in terms of, like, building a harmonious society, like having friends of

00:49:08.040 different backgrounds, then you getting to

00:49:10.040 know other religions, other cultures

00:49:11.820 is very important.

00:49:14.720 Like I said, I think it's

00:49:15.940 important for youth to be able to develop

00:49:17.780 friends based on interest, not based

00:49:19.780 on challenges. Whereas we see a lot

00:49:22.000 of those friendships are

00:49:23.980 being developed based on challenges of like

00:49:26.000 I said, you know, I've experienced

00:49:28.160 this, you've experienced this, we can relate

00:49:30.080 to each other through it.

00:49:32.100 Which is very

00:49:33.360 it's

00:49:35.800 It's, I'm losing the word I'm looking for, but it's, it's beneficial in the sense of

00:49:43.040 like, you build solidarity, you build understanding, it's therapeutic, you feel validated, but

00:49:51.120 it's not all that a friendship should be.

00:49:53.260 I think it's very important for children and youth to have their identities be more

00:49:59.200 than just their challenges.

00:50:01.100 So if your friendships are all based on your challenges, that becomes your identity and

00:50:05.320 that becomes your life whereas you're losing your hobbies and your interests in that process and so

00:50:10.760 I think it's important for you to find friends who share their interests as well which is going

00:50:16.700 to give you a diverse group of friends so if you're really into you know for example the student you

00:50:22.540 spoke to he's into basketball so of course everybody who plays basketball isn't going to be

00:50:28.420 the same culture and same religion as him he's going to find more diversity there or if you're

00:50:33.200 interested in art to be able to make friends who are interested in that as well that your

00:50:37.720 conversations can be about things you like and enjoy and not just about the challenges and barriers

00:50:42.820 that you're facing in your life um so i think it's important to have friends of both um people

00:50:47.900 you can relate to in terms of challenges and experience but also people who you can relate

00:50:51.920 to in terms of interests and hobbies and goals and all these other things and i think that group

00:50:58.500 to be a diverse group of friends for sure.

00:51:01.120 I actually think that will help a lot

00:51:03.100 because, like, I'm going to talk about me in general.

00:51:07.320 Like, if my friends were my friends right now,

00:51:10.740 they probably want to know about the Chinese Holocaust

00:51:12.700 because most of them have social media, right?

00:51:15.560 And, like, I told all my friends about it.

00:51:17.540 They're, like, they were really surprised

00:51:18.720 because I was one of the first ones I knew about it, okay?

00:51:21.140 And then they're, like, really surprised.

00:51:23.540 And, like, some of them who had social media,

00:51:26.000 they started posting on social media too.

00:51:27.820 And I was very happy because I was, like, I even told them, like, thank you.

00:51:31.660 Because, like, they actually took the initiative to, like, talk about it.

00:51:34.380 And they weren't embarrassed.

00:51:35.460 And they did it all for me.

00:51:36.960 And I was very grateful to them.

00:51:38.380 And, like, even when, like, other stuff is happening, like, stereotypes are being formed, I always, like, help them out.

00:51:45.440 I always do something about it, you know.

00:51:47.260 And that's good.

00:51:47.720 You should always do something about it.

00:51:49.080 You should act up upon it.

00:51:50.040 Don't be scared about what other people think.

00:51:52.140 I actually used to be, like, very shy when I was young, too.

00:51:54.840 i used to like um i always used to be like oh no i'm not gonna say that because they're gonna judge

00:52:00.540 me oh no that's not cool that's not a cool thing to do and then um i started going more on social

00:52:06.380 media in general and i started looking i started looking at my idols i started looking at them

00:52:11.160 like posting weird stuff too like in general and like you too jonathan like i saw you like

00:52:16.520 posting like a million stuff that like even if like people's like some people are like hating

00:52:20.960 on you in your comments you didn't care i really like love that about you and like you're also one

00:52:25.380 of my idols and like i think like a really good thing that you should do is like you should like

00:52:30.480 find someone who really like encourages you and you should try to follow them you know you should

00:52:35.200 like um find an idol i guess and not even just that just you should like keep on trying to build

00:52:40.180 that self-confidence you know like just do it as i said before because i used to be scared about

00:52:44.180 what my cool friends would think i love those cool friends now because if they like if they

00:52:49.220 judge me they're not really good friends right and that's why like i only have like some friends

00:52:53.960 now but i don't care because they're trustful friends and you should always have like a group

00:52:58.180 of friends that you can always trust one more thing just a reminder go follow my instagram

00:53:04.260 at underscore soul time dot rk 47 anyway i like how he puts it trustful friends it might sound

00:53:13.320 small but a friend who shares your post about muslims on instagram well maybe that's a friend

00:53:19.120 who demonstrates that they have your back, visibly, and that they will stand up for you

00:53:24.620 the next time someone makes a terrorist joke, or they will sit with your sister on that

00:53:29.720 bus where someone tried to rip her hijab off. That's allyship. And similarly, a teacher

00:53:35.860 who facilitates a lesson about challenging stereotypes in your classroom is a teacher

00:53:39.400 who demonstrates that they see you for you, and they will challenge things like racism

00:53:44.880 or sexism in their community, and they will support maybe diverse friendships, knowing

00:53:49.420 that intercultural understanding is part of how we will make a better world.

00:53:54.340 That kind of demonstration goes a long way for a young person.

00:53:59.240 So January 29th, in about two weeks, is the anniversary of the Quebec mosque shooting,

00:54:06.140 and a day that organizations from all across Canada have called for the government to designate

00:54:10.740 as the National Day of Action Against Hate and Intolerance.

00:54:15.060 I encourage you to recognize that day, and use it as a day to challenge your own assumptions,

00:54:19.900 to stand against stereotypes, and end cycles of violence.

00:54:23.920 Do it again the next day, and the day after that.

00:54:30.200 My name is Jonathan Reed and I'm white, acknowledging that learning about other experiences and

00:54:34.340 challenging my biases is part of how I seek to engage in feminism and support the boys

00:54:38.460 that I work with.

00:54:40.480 This podcast is supported by Next Gen Men, which is where I've learned a lot about intersectional 1.00

00:54:44.160 feminism.

00:54:45.320 To find out more about this national leader on engaging boys and men in gender equity,

00:54:48.980 visit nextgenmen.ca.

00:54:52.500 This project is also supported by listeners like you.

00:54:55.320 A huge shout out to my current crew on Patreon who helped me launch season 2 and made this

00:54:58.960 episode possible.

00:54:59.960 I love you guys.

00:55:00.960 If you are able to donate just $2 per episode, please visit patreon.com slash boy podcast.

00:55:05.840 It goes a long way because each episode is a ton of work.

00:55:08.740 can contact me at breakingtheboycode at gmail.com or at boypodcast on social media. The next time

00:55:14.780 you hear a boy making a joke about racism or anything like that, ask him what if it wasn't

00:55:18.460 a joke and maybe read him that Maya Angelou poem.

00:55:38.740 Thank you.

Breaking the Boy Code - January 13, 2020

Inside, I Really Feel Hurt： Boys and Islamophobia

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