Breaking the Boy Code - The Ways Boys Experience Cultural Community

00:00:00.000 We're being, now being joined by Adrian's.

00:00:02.300 Let's go.

00:00:03.000 Hi, Adrian.

00:00:03.800 Hi, Andrew.

00:00:04.520 Where's Adrian's?

00:00:05.580 Oh, thank you.

00:00:06.460 Oh, it's you.

00:00:07.460 Can I say something, Adrian?

00:00:09.400 Check, check, check.

00:00:10.700 One, two, one, two.

00:00:13.020 Morning, everybody.

00:00:14.240 Good to see y'all.

00:00:16.560 Okay, can you hear, try Sadiq, say something.

00:00:19.060 Oh, hello.

00:00:22.280 Can you hear?

00:00:23.140 I can hear.

00:00:23.860 Yeah, I can hear y'all.

00:00:25.240 I can hear y'all.

00:00:26.860 What's up?

00:00:28.780 I'm good.

00:00:29.580 I'm good. Y'all are looking good. Y'all grown. Y'all grown. Oh my gosh.

00:00:33.980 You're sitting on the chair.

00:00:35.220 You just got smaller.

00:00:37.120 No.

00:00:37.680 Oh wow. That's true. That's true.

00:00:56.380 Hi there. Welcome to the podcast.

00:00:59.160 My name is Jonathan, and you're listening to Breaking the Boy Code.

00:01:02.880 We're on the final pair of episodes based on this...

00:01:06.020 Is it weird? I was going to call it a treasure trove of footage,

00:01:10.020 and then I was like, that's kind of a weird thing to say.

00:01:12.760 We're on the final pair of episodes based on this collection of audio footage

00:01:15.860 that's been on our digital shelf since the middle of the pandemic.

00:01:19.620 This conversation was about exploring resilience and well-being,

00:01:24.480 knowing that those are some of the most important things

00:01:26.300 that boys of color might be carrying with them into high school and beyond. Adrian and I used

00:01:32.600 the framework of an organization called the Umbrella Project. I first connected with Jen,

00:01:37.320 who founded the Umbrella Project, through a gathering called the Outdoor Collective,

00:01:40.580 organized by our friends over at Shout Out and Erewhon, Shout Out Alive Outdoors. You know,

00:01:44.960 the event that, you know, I participated in and sort of facilitated out over a couple of years,

00:01:50.120 unfortunately, didn't make it through the pandemic. But one of the experiences there

00:01:54.420 really stuck with me. It was this tool called the Umbrella Assessment. You can find it at

00:02:00.200 umbrellaproject.co, but I'll summarize by saying it's a self-reflection tool that offers a way to

00:02:06.880 look at your own well-being skills and resources and identify the ones that are strongest and the

00:02:13.740 ones that you could work on to have a stronger capability to weather the realities of life.

00:02:19.880 whether, you know, pun somewhat intended, but that's kind of the, you know, the metaphor of

00:02:24.260 this umbrella is that, like, that you're gonna face rain. And so, like, what's sheltering you

00:02:30.300 from that? What is, what are your, like, protective factors, skills, and resources?

00:02:34.780 As you know, part of what my friend and co-facilitator Adrian and I were doing

00:02:39.780 with this project was trying to adapt existing resources to encapsulate different intersections

00:02:46.240 of identity, in particular, the experience of being a boy of color. So with the umbrella

00:02:52.780 assessment, we took out a couple of their skills. We dropped, first of all, we dropped

00:02:57.740 cognitive flexibility, which was about adaptation when things are new or when things aren't

00:03:02.560 working. And we replaced it with what we called resistance. Now, each of the skills has three

00:03:09.260 sort of questions. And so the three that we wrote for resistance were, I have a cultural

00:03:14.220 community that helps me navigate my everyday challenges and triumphs. I have peers and or

00:03:20.240 adults with whom I feel comfortable talking about systemic barriers like racism. And my voice and

00:03:26.680 my opinions are heard and valued in my classroom and school. So that was one, you know, set of

00:03:33.240 resources that we added to this framework. And the other one, well, first of all, we took out

00:03:37.080 intrinsic motivation, which is about sort of enjoying the challenges of school and work,

00:03:41.700 and we replaced it with culture.

00:03:45.200 The first sort of prompter question was,

00:03:47.620 my cultural identity has a positive impact on my life,

00:03:51.740 which was followed by,

00:03:53.520 I have easy access to books, movies, and music

00:03:56.640 about people who look like me,

00:03:58.900 and I have cultural traditions or practices

00:04:02.700 that I am part of that help sustain my mental health.

00:04:06.800 Both of these additions were based on the idea

00:04:09.320 that while you do have, you know, individual skills, strengths, and resources, you also

00:04:15.580 have a context. Traditions that you've grown up with, communities that you belong to,

00:04:23.280 connections to parts of your identity or to the people around you that sustain you in ways that

00:04:28.900 cannot be ignored. You know, like, for example, there was a research study that said Black adults

00:04:35.380 said that race and ethnicity were not only important, as a quote, but quote, central to

00:04:41.620 their identity. And so this all led to a really interesting conversation about empathy and

00:04:47.940 resilience, community and authenticity. So without further ado, here's what they had to say.

00:05:05.380 the way we're going to do it is I'm going to give you a piece this piece of paper which has

00:05:14.520 a bunch of basically categories with statements and I want you to we're going to do each category

00:05:21.920 one at a time so the category that we're doing first is empathy but empathy to begin with is

00:05:28.180 the following statements I am good at understanding the way other people feel

00:05:32.480 don't say it out loud yet although we will talk about it

00:05:36.500 so write down the extent to which you're good at understanding the way other people feel number

00:05:42.300 two before getting upset with somebody i try to imagine how i would feel if i was

00:05:47.140 so question for you all um when you think about being empathetic okay if you when you think about

00:05:56.000 being empathetic you ever think of the challenges that people that are in similar you ever think

00:06:00.900 about people who are in similar or different like marginalized groups as you I think it depends

00:06:06.580 because like as a kid my siblings when something happens to them I was like I bet I went through

00:06:11.040 that I know how it feels I went through that so like you feel you get people get more empathetic

00:06:18.160 the older they get because that's when you experience it because the kid you can't really

00:06:21.660 feel empathetic because what have you experienced yeah like when you get older like if something

00:06:28.440 having to see you we can't feel empathetic because like we've probably never been through it before

00:06:33.000 you're like a grown-up job everything our own house yeah which but we're just a bunch of kids so

00:06:40.360 so empathy is easier when you've actually been through similar experiences when you get wiser

00:06:44.760 and things yeah or like if or like unless you got like a like us on you got unless you got like a

00:06:50.120 master we on speed dial master away once you got like him on a speed dial or you can go back to

00:06:57.880 the spirit world master from kung fu panda yes i'm the wise man i think that's like you're you're

00:07:03.680 touching on it there of like imagining what that person could be going through and being able to

00:07:10.260 feel through that would be a really important part outside of having like the necessity of

00:07:15.340 having to experience that thing in order to understand because imagine as well imagine

00:07:20.080 you're having such a hard time with something and you have a friend or like yo i have an

00:07:24.520 experiences so I don't know what to say in you right now like I feel like that's a slap in the

00:07:29.260 face but if you have someone like oh man I'm sorry that you've experienced that I must have been tough

00:07:34.540 empathy you don't really need the experience helps but again I think it's something that

00:07:41.600 bets to mention something that you kind of like imagine yourself in the situation or to support

00:07:46.080 with like imagining this like you seeing someone get stabbed in a movie it like it doesn't like

00:07:52.880 you don't feel anything like oh they got stabbed a big plot twist betrayal right but then after in

00:07:59.280 real life when you get stabbed you actually feel it like it hurts a lot so you can't really imagine

00:08:04.720 the pain that someone else has been going through you have to really you have to actually just

00:08:09.520 experience it so you guys are saying there's a difference between like sympathizing to somebody

00:08:15.920 and saying oh yeah that sucks and like actually understanding yeah what they're feeling can we do

00:08:21.520 the next category yes okay growth mindset number one is i can greatly change how good i am at

00:08:28.460 almost anything by practicing can i say my first my score nine nine number two though

00:08:36.380 i didn't i didn't even read that hard challenges over easy oh oh that's oh

00:08:42.320 now i'm just gonna i'm just gonna do it so most of you are pretty high like whether it's seven

00:08:49.200 eight or nine you're all pretty high on gross mindset i prefer hard challenges over easy ones

00:08:53.040 like late game situations you know tie game crowd yelling and everything send the game to overtime

00:09:00.000 as i did you know i lost the game i like the thing i like those challenges you know i believe

00:09:05.200 i can improve my intelligence through hard work you know well i haven't had a b minus like someone

00:09:11.120 here before and like and turning into a thing but uh yeah so i believe that my hard work could

00:09:20.340 think could improve intelligence because like the b minus actually once a grade she couldn't

00:09:24.960 change that mine's a cheese so yeah i believe that i believe that i can improve my intelligence

00:09:31.380 through hard work and also i can greatly change how good i am at almost anything by practicing

00:09:37.460 you know i believe that practice makes perfect you know once you practice you're one step closer

00:09:42.900 to perfection but no one is perfect you know but like just repetition you know make the shots

00:09:48.380 you know so i think the critical thing with growth mindset is that there's a difference

00:09:52.580 between like being naturally and inherently good at something versus believing that you can improve

00:09:58.200 by practicing but me i have like i've applied those in school wherever i go so like i can

00:10:06.540 greatly change how good i am at almost anything by practicing that part i've like practiced i

00:10:13.340 remember i have practiced for like grade three equal and then and then i got a really good grade

00:10:19.240 i just only got i got for language i got 3.5 but the rest are four i got that without studying like

00:10:26.940 see you don't have to study for anything if you really think about okay when you get high school

00:10:31.280 okay you have to study but elementary you don't need to study no but if you do if you get like

00:10:36.520 all fours you'll get like you'll get like a scholarship and go to a gifted school but

00:10:41.560 i i just want the scholarship okay but who wants to go to gifted school we're just smart kids

00:10:47.060 because i can elevate my education but whether or not you go to a different like a special school

00:10:54.080 or anything like that you still build skills and habits that are going to make make you more

00:10:58.020 effective at whatever the only question i had is like you feel like you're for your ratings that

00:11:02.580 you've placed you feel that pertains to all you think that relates to all aspects of your life

00:11:08.240 like best events in basketball actually i mentioned academics do you feel like you have a growth

00:11:13.320 mindset in all the different areas of your life yes yes you know how i said it first

00:11:18.760 so there's no places there are no places where you feel like you don't if you have challenges

00:11:25.700 it's a bit harder for you to have that mindset for me i put a two down i put a two on growth

00:11:31.780 mindset why because see like when i say i can really change how good i am at almost practicing

00:11:40.500 anything like i know at myself i wouldn't practice because i'm actually really lazy i'll be like give

00:11:45.340 up halfway because i'm actually lazy yeah and like i prefer hard challenges over easy ones

00:11:52.380 that's just come on hard over easy it's like my my i could do it i could do it i could do a hard

00:12:00.980 challenge and do it right but like if I think about it I would pick the easy one

00:12:06.080 so that's the zero right there and then I believe I could improve my

00:12:10.140 intelligence through hard work it's like I can't do work like it's too much for

00:12:18.220 me like I'm like I could I've been passing by my whole life without doing

00:12:24.380 like without doing hard work or anything and I've been passing by great so like

00:12:29.960 Like, I know I have to do hard work later in life, right?

00:12:34.740 But until then, I'm gonna live it easy.

00:12:37.520 Okay, let's do the next categories.

00:12:38.940 Okay, next one is grit.

00:12:40.940 Wait, these are the words we use for the thing.

00:12:44.600 This is the character trait of the rock.

00:12:46.460 Character powers.

00:12:47.300 So the one question I have for grit is,

00:12:49.460 are there certain times when it's okay to give up?

00:12:51.740 Yes, it is okay.

00:12:52.940 Sometimes it's okay.

00:12:54.340 Yeah, sometimes. Not all the time.

00:12:55.640 What are the circumstances?

00:12:56.840 What are the situations where it's okay?

00:12:58.700 And do you have, I know, do you have a situation that you've gone through where you had to?

00:13:04.880 Nah.

00:13:05.200 Nah, I gave up.

00:13:07.440 Okay, but Siddi, you came out swinging and saying it is okay to sometimes give up.

00:13:10.820 Yeah, it's okay.

00:13:11.880 It's okay to sometimes give up because stuff can be challenging and, like, stuff is not always meant for you.

00:13:17.980 If that makes sense.

00:13:19.880 Yep.

00:13:20.080 but like let's say if you had like like you had like a big goal and then like you just like just

00:13:27.140 lost confidence and you're like no i can't do that anymore you don't give up on that you still have

00:13:31.980 to keep going what i mean by don't give up i'm like like what kind of situation specific like

00:13:37.000 if if your friend's doing something that's that's cool and stuff and you want to do it to impress

00:13:43.300 him and when you do it and it's really really challenging you just you don't have to do it to

00:13:48.180 impress him or anybody else because it's really challenging it's not meant for you it's not like

00:13:53.660 what you want to do it's just because you want to impress somebody else be yourself yeah one more

00:13:58.880 quick question for you a lot of you for the most part say that like never giving up that's that's

00:14:04.260 the motto that's the mantra do you feel like you have to stay committed to the things that you do

00:14:11.100 because of either your race or because of you being a boy so like nothing involves in um my

00:14:19.980 characteristics so like not give like not giving up is like a characteristic where like i just

00:14:25.980 created it and like it's like it's just my mind like it's my brain it's basically like the nucleus

00:14:33.340 of the body like no it's like the me you're bringing out the big words um for me i would

00:14:40.700 just say if you ever think about giving up just remember why you started yeah yeah that one's too

00:14:50.060 i'm trying to steal mine that was a good quote i'm stealing that let me let me throw another

00:14:57.740 let me throw another question at you like do you feel pressured not to give up no no no is this

00:15:04.140 natural yeah okay let's do the next category which is self-compassion can i read it sure

00:15:20.580 okay when i handle things the wrong way i remind myself that everybody makes mistakes from time to

00:15:26.940 time so you said you have always had really high levels of self-compassion he's gonna say how do

00:15:33.100 you ever get mad at yourself or down on yourself or you usually you know let things go and forgive

00:15:38.440 yourself look at myself this is kind of like similar this is similar to growth mindset though

00:15:45.740 when you think about it it's similar to growth mindset what do you mean

00:15:48.180 when you get mad at mad at yourself like you're technically not improving well like technically

00:15:55.860 you are but like a little bit you're not because you're just mad at yourself like when you think

00:16:00.980 about growth mindset you're like the total opposite like you don't get mad you just like

00:16:06.320 okay i got that grade i'll improve like in the situation remember that the three i got for the

00:16:11.600 three minus three minus for the first thing and then i improved yeah but you cried first

00:16:17.440 no i didn't i didn't even cry you're saying for a growth mindset to be possible that you need

00:16:22.740 self-compassion yeah right any other thoughts on self-compassion i think i know the answers

00:16:28.560 right there i want to i want to make my own in my own words you guys like i but what i think it

00:16:34.400 means is like like being nice to yourself like don't beat yourself down because you can make

00:16:39.680 mistakes yeah that's what i think it means what i think it means is when i handle things the

00:16:46.640 wrong way i remind myself that everybody um well my question sounds like y'all have really high

00:16:53.200 self-compassion i'm just gonna ask if there are any situations that you've experienced

00:16:57.440 where you find yourself being hard on yourself more often than not probably when i was younger

00:17:03.600 like younger younger like when i was like probably five i was like like like i'll probably get mad

00:17:09.600 because of how like i'm not fast and like now like i know that okay i don't need to be mad

00:17:17.200 at myself it's just natural i can improve you know yeah yeah i used to get mad at myself because like

00:17:24.960 if i if i ever wanted to do something i would think it all the way through and even ahead

00:17:28.960 like if something happened i would have like five backup plans and that one thing i didn't think of

00:17:34.260 happened i was getting mad at myself another thing okay well that brings us to the next category which

00:17:39.260 is kindness the first one is i care what happens to other people when i'm kind to others it makes

00:17:45.440 me feel good and i look for opportunities to be kind to others okay like whoever's three and two

00:17:53.020 talk about that like what exactly I mean I mean depending if you do something

00:17:58.000 dumb I would I care it's like when you do dumb things like why should I care 0.94

00:18:06.400 and you did those dumb things yeah I like my body I don't have a care thing 0.99

00:18:10.900 while body I yeah I really she couldn't care 1.00

00:18:17.580 What about little kid? Little kids? Yeah, I couldn't share. Like, I'll be respectful. I'll, like, play with little kids. Older women. I'll play, like, older women. Like, I'll be respectful. Hold the door. Yeah, whatever. But I really couldn't care. 1.00

00:18:30.720 Why do you do it if you don't care? Yeah. I mean, it's like a respectful thing to do.

00:18:36.640 Well, like, if you don't care, you're being respectful. If you see an elderly, right? That's like, like, daddy's helping you through the door because they're on a wheelchair and disabled, right? 0.59

00:18:44.340 i mean like why not like you're already going through the door might as well not hold it for

00:18:48.400 them too right but you uh you rated you rated your kindness really low but then you described

00:18:55.540 being kind exactly yeah exactly it seems like you might have like a self-perception of not being

00:19:02.500 kind but you actually might be more kind than you think or at least you're kind so you're saying

00:19:08.260 your kindness isn't motivated by like love like it's not like you love those people but you're

00:19:12.100 still going to be generally kind and respectful respectful not kind there's a difference i mean

00:19:19.040 i can respect someone but i won't be i don't have to be nice to them well technically respecting

00:19:24.040 being nice though when you think about it like let's say for example i don't okay i don't let's

00:19:28.660 say i hated kobe right but i respect him for the player he is uh so you technically appreciate

00:19:36.160 someone uh like i'll respect i'll respect that kobe had a great mentality he played the game

00:19:41.900 amazing right but that doesn't mean i won't be kind like i have to be kind to him okay

00:19:47.560 any other examples of the difference between respectfulness and being nice

00:19:53.100 the difference is like i don't think there's no difference though you don't think there's a

00:19:59.020 difference there is a difference well like a small little teeny bit different but like that

00:20:03.520 won't matter okay see you also rated yourself pretty low um okay for the first one i care what

00:20:10.600 happens to other people like i put zero but before you say anything let me explain on that first

00:20:16.480 so like it depends it depends who the person is and like what type of person they are so if it's

00:20:23.520 like my family member yes i'm gonna care what happens for them if it's like a random guy i'm

00:20:28.580 not going to say that like i'm not going to say i don't care about them how do i say this it's not

00:20:34.880 like i want it to happen to i want the bad things to happen to them but i just feel like yeah i just

00:20:40.240 feel like on the news it's i don't know how to explain it even like even even family members

00:20:49.000 if i don't know okay for the first one basically it's a one so like i'm just saying i don't i'm

00:20:56.140 I'm not saying I don't care about the person.

00:20:57.780 I'm not saying I specifically want that to happen

00:21:01.620 to the person, but I'm saying if it's my family member

00:21:05.620 or somebody that I know, yes, I'm going to care

00:21:09.080 what happens to them.

00:21:12.680 Okay, what about the other ones?

00:21:14.520 Oh, when I'm kind to others, it makes me feel good.

00:21:17.560 Yeah, I put like a, it's like a two and a half.

00:21:20.940 I'm just saying two and a half, yeah.

00:21:23.000 I look for opportunity to be kind to others.

00:21:29.540 No, but actually, yes, okay, sure, yes.

00:21:32.240 I think why I know why he picked one,

00:21:35.660 because when you think about it,

00:21:38.820 you're gonna be kind either way when one person comes.

00:21:42.880 So let's say, like you all said, opening the door,

00:21:45.320 let's say, okay, he's being kind,

00:21:47.520 but let's say you don't look forward

00:21:50.440 to going to kindness.

00:21:53.000 like yeah it's like it's like natural that's what he's trying to say okay well it's natural for you

00:22:00.260 yeah right one thing i'm noticing a lot there are a lot of hypotheticals that come into this

00:22:04.480 situation when looking into the what the question's asking it's really experiential it's like

00:22:12.180 it's asking like for kindness like i care about what happens to other people like looking back

00:22:19.440 at everything that's happened like have you expressed that or when i'm kind to others it

00:22:24.560 makes me feel good like thinking about what you've experienced before that encompasses that

00:22:29.140 as opposed to thinking about extremes or about hypothetical situations so just be mindful of

00:22:36.000 that even when it comes to the ratings that says here like seldom true of me means that it's like

00:22:43.340 rarely true for me you know what I mean so just think about it that way of like based off of how

00:22:50.360 you present yourself in the world in the present and what you know of yourself how you would answer

00:22:57.400 these questions as opposed to thinking about the as opposed to thinking about in this situation

00:23:03.100 if this were to happen I would probably do this so that's the only thing I sort of like

00:23:09.920 challenge you to think about so what I'm saying is like through these questions they're like

00:23:15.860 statements right like so when you come to this statement think about what you've done in the

00:23:22.860 past think about who you are now and like how true is it based off of someone was watching you

00:23:29.140 let's this let's go this way if someone was watching you on a tv and saw your life up until

00:23:34.520 this point what if they say that that statement was like true of you you know so thinking about

00:23:41.780 like everything that you've gone through and answering as opposed to thinking about hypothetical

00:23:46.100 situations and how you think you might respond to them is kind of the gist of what the questions

00:23:52.240 are getting at so i don't know if that makes anything easier or more complicated yeah it does

00:23:58.940 uh so like like when you're younger like you don't know what like you you basically just don't know

00:24:05.060 what like what anything is you just like you're just like a classic human just like knowing any

00:24:12.180 knowing nothing and then while growing up you're like evolved like you'll know like okay so this

00:24:18.500 is right that's right to do and then while you're growing up you'll know like how to apply to them

00:24:24.860 in like real life situations and that now i'm in i'm like so for these now i'm an eight but like

00:24:32.920 when i was probably when i was younger i'll probably be like probably be like a two

00:24:38.260 because i'm not used to them so but so basically experience makes like make something better

00:24:46.220 so you've built a lot of these things yeah yeah it's like because when you're when you're young

00:24:52.340 all you think about is doing whatever you like you don't you know you just don't think at all

00:24:59.360 you just do you just do whatever you want to do and stuff but then like you get older people

00:25:04.940 start to teach you or you learn from like watching shows or watching movies if you work with young

00:25:10.440 people you know you're an educator or a coach or a volunteer that I want to just want to say two

00:25:15.700 things first of all I appreciate you to be spending you know your free time listening

00:25:21.760 to boys voices and thinking about how to support their well-being and positive development and

00:25:26.320 also to show up for them day in and day out that's huge second of all i know you're probably hungry

00:25:34.080 for training for resources i mean that's where the most passionate and committed educators i

00:25:39.120 know are at so listen we've been developing this for years now a series of professional

00:25:44.000 development sessions on positive masculinity mental health and well-being anti-feminist

00:25:49.920 influences like Andrew Tate and consent education with boys. All tied to the Next Gen Manual

00:25:56.380 Program Guide. This past school year, 100% of participating educators said they learned

00:26:01.580 something new and that it was relevant to their work with students. 92% of them said that they

00:26:06.280 felt like they had a clear actionable next step to put something into action. And 70% of them

00:26:11.320 actually did be the one to make a difference for the boys in your school. Become a champion

00:26:16.760 of the next generation of men at nextgenmen.ca slash mentors.

00:26:26.820 Next category is resistance. It is as follows. I have a cultural community that helps me navigate

00:26:37.260 my everyday challenges and triumphs. I have peers or adults with whom I feel comfortable

00:26:43.980 talking about systemic barriers like racism and my voice and opinions are heard and valued in my

00:26:49.840 classroom in school i actually have a strong community that helps me navigate my everyday

00:26:55.260 challenges what community like community as in like like community community or like cultural

00:27:03.620 community like let's like hinduism like that stuff uh-huh probably like a little bit because

00:27:10.120 there's like not that many Sri Lankan people like as like probably there's more but like I have

00:27:15.840 I don't know what does it look like in your life right now

00:27:20.100 like you guys are talking about cultural community yeah that's what it says

00:27:25.480 not like actual community well then the um I'm from Congo and the Congolese community

00:27:32.740 it's from it they also help me with my everyday challenges I could just give them a call and

00:27:38.480 everything and they'll help me so what does that look like in your life support it but like what's

00:27:44.680 an example like they're showing me that they're there you know who's the they my my community

00:27:53.500 my congolese community my mom my dad my cousins my family friends

00:28:00.620 okay your family and your family friends yeah i think about like a group of people that you

00:28:08.320 regularly connect with for support. So when I think of this, the question that was asked,

00:28:14.280 I have a group of like six friends who are like Black identifying males who I connect with maybe

00:28:23.280 like once a month or so just to check in to see how things are going and also just to talk about

00:28:27.980 length because I know that there are experiences that we all sort of encounter and face that maybe

00:28:33.320 other folks don't. So that's one community. You could think like religious communities as well

00:28:37.960 as a part of that too depending on um what your affiliations are too i think that that's like

00:28:45.100 you both kind of touched on it too when it comes to like like your own like background your cultural

00:28:49.840 background like i have folks in my life who are jamaican who i connect with as well to provide me

00:28:56.120 and my family support um mostly when it comes to having that sense of like having that sense of

00:29:02.880 connectedness within like the city so community is just like a group of folks i think within this

00:29:09.740 question in particular is like folks who look like you folks with the same race potentially

00:29:13.220 same gender as well um and how you're able to what does it look like to be in that space with

00:29:19.760 them and what does the support look like in being in that in that group with that group of people

00:29:26.460 okay so with that explanation of community as a group of people that you're regularly in touch

00:29:35.280 with that you can like that are part of your life that you're regularly kind of

00:29:39.680 in and out with each other what about your community like in your everyday life what does

00:29:44.600 that look like like my family and my parents and my stuff they're really they're pretty

00:29:50.580 support supportive so was my siblings are not they're not that supportive yeah

00:29:56.760 um like but I feel like if I if I'm going through stuff they'll help me get

00:30:03.900 through it and like how do I say this it's like a on the tip of my tongue but

00:30:11.100 I don't know how to say it what okay so like in my community

00:30:20.280 basically my community it's not it's not only my family it's like some of my

00:30:24.900 friends back in Sudan I remember like at least two or one of them because there

00:30:30.760 was like lots of people I made friends with because when I first came there I

00:30:34.200 like I didn't know any of the language I didn't know any of the thing just any of

00:30:39.300 the cultural stuff because I was born here and then I'm like I'm I'm I went to

00:30:43.260 sudan in like 2013 or 2014 so there's people in your family and also outside your family that

00:30:52.440 are supportive well to me it's not like my like my like cousins and all stuff to me it's like

00:30:59.380 my friends my like good friends so like there's like a friend he lives very far from here he's

00:31:06.840 just very supportive you know we just you know we just do comedy well it's basically like he's

00:31:11.920 like a brother to me like basically like my Sri Lankan friends are like brothers and sisters

00:31:17.200 like yeah what makes them so close how they like support me so like like and then how like they're

00:31:25.980 so interactive to me like they know like what I'm talking about like like they clearly know

00:31:31.620 what I'm what I'm talking about like when it comes to like a cultural community I mean like

00:31:39.980 My cousins live like a five-minute walk from my house.

00:31:42.680 I can go anywhere I want, really.

00:31:45.180 And then if you want to come see what I can talk to,

00:31:47.900 no, there's not really anybody.

00:31:50.540 Because like my parents, that's a big no-no.

00:31:54.860 And then like my cousins, they're much older, a lot older.

00:32:00.440 Last one on this page is authenticity.

00:32:03.500 It's easy for me to tell people what I feel.

00:32:06.580 I'm happy with the kind of person I am.

00:32:09.980 Okay, so what makes, what makes authenticity so easy or so possible in your lives?

00:32:15.420 Because authenticity is like, it's, it's basically your heart.

00:32:22.300 Yeah.

00:32:23.640 You be yourself.

00:32:25.240 Like, there's no reason for you to be like someone else.

00:32:28.520 And I'm happy, but like, from like, what person I am, like, I, I, I don't wish to be like,

00:32:34.100 like I don't wish to be like well basically like basketball wise like like I wish he had

00:32:41.200 I wish I had 50 skills but like like but like casually like as like a human I don't wish to

00:32:48.260 be like I don't wish to be like city I just like like I like no I just like myself like being

00:32:55.420 just being myself like I like I like my you know I like my hands you know I like my it's just

00:33:02.680 basically like self-compassion yeah self-love totally yeah Sadiq what do you think mine is

00:33:10.300 similar to what actually it's not too similar it's easy for me to tell people what I feel

00:33:15.140 be quiet uh yeah it's it's it's yeah it's pretty easy to tell people what you feel but sometimes

00:33:22.620 you but sometimes when you're feeling uh sad or depressed about something you you cover it uh

00:33:31.340 and tell your friends that, oh yeah, I'm doing great, when you really aren't.

00:33:36.120 So it's difficult for the people that are suffering from depression

00:33:39.840 or going through some challenges right now.

00:33:46.720 I'm happy for the kind of person that I am.

00:33:51.240 I just wish I was taller. I'm not even lying. I wish I was taller.

00:33:54.800 You're going to get taller, bro.

00:33:56.300 I know, but like...

00:33:59.100 Probably going to be six.

00:34:00.040 You're in grade 7. How tall are you?

00:34:02.980 5'1".

00:34:03.780 Like 5'1". 0.94

00:34:04.860 You're not even that bad. When I was here, you're 5'3".

00:34:07.160 You're not that bad.

00:34:08.400 When I'm with friends, it's easy to be myself.

00:34:12.200 Basically, yeah.

00:34:14.020 For me, it's easy to tell people what I feel.

00:34:18.540 You know, because I'm a talkative person, and I like to express myself and things like that.

00:34:24.120 And I just talk a lot.

00:34:26.340 And then I'm happy with the kind of person I am.

00:34:29.460 yes i'm very happy because i don't have any insecurities i'm just happy

00:34:35.420 then but when i'm with my friends it's easy to be myself yeah it's easy to be myself because

00:34:41.440 i think that's why that's why my friends chose to be my friends i wouldn't really

00:34:46.720 consider you as my as my friend if i had to act a certain way around you and not be myself you

00:34:52.960 know because it'll feel weird and things like that yeah right i mean it's worth acknowledging

00:34:59.220 that that does happen like get people act one way around their around their friends because

00:35:03.900 that's the way they think their friends expect them to act yeah but it's kind of cool that it

00:35:08.180 sounds like you found friendships where that that's not the case he knows what true friendship

00:35:12.940 is how did you have you always had friendships like that yeah like what to i'm allowed to um

00:35:20.280 express yourself yeah oh it's easy to be myself yeah

00:35:24.520 okay I want to go back to Sadiq pointed out that when you're feeling stuff that's really hard

00:35:32.500 that can actually be harder to talk about how you're feeling yeah because because if you're

00:35:39.160 going through like some mental problems uh you can't if if you tell people that they're gonna

00:35:45.440 start I don't know you start feeling anxious you start feeling some anxiety because you just

00:35:53.440 really don't want to tell anybody and you're covering up to make it feel like you're okay

00:35:57.680 when you're really not because of what happened to you and i just feel like if like you just need

00:36:04.420 to talk to somebody if you're feeling that way just talk to some somebody and maybe like they'll

00:36:09.460 help you they'll help you feel better and like yeah that's that's basically what i mean kind of

00:36:16.420 it's kind of like the giver like the book giver like has anybody read it the giver from

00:36:22.860 I can't remember.

00:36:24.360 Yeah, John is, like, no, like, spoiler alert,

00:36:27.660 but, like, John is, he's, like...

00:36:29.260 No spoiler alert.

00:36:30.360 Yeah, spoiler alert.

00:36:31.560 I don't even want to read it.

00:36:32.560 He doesn't want to read it.

00:36:33.360 He doesn't want to read it either.

00:36:34.360 I don't want to hear this.

00:36:35.360 So, basically, John is, so, John is, he kind of, like,

00:36:41.060 he has strict rules.

00:36:42.660 He has strict rules.

00:36:43.660 So, like, not, like, tell his mem-

00:36:45.360 like, tell his, like, the memories that were transmitted to him.

00:36:48.860 Memories that were transmitted to him.

00:36:50.360 And, like, he just can't, like...

00:36:52.360 So there was this part where, like, they were playing, like, a child's war game,

00:36:56.020 and, like, he got, like, a terrible memory out of that.

00:36:58.740 And, like, he, like, he told him to stop playing the game, and he was, like, angry.

00:37:03.400 And his friends were, like, why did you tell us to stop the game?

00:37:05.820 Like, there's nothing wrong about it, but because they don't know the memory.

00:37:09.580 And, like, he can't.

00:37:10.640 So, like, it's kind of similar.

00:37:11.860 What happened?

00:37:12.440 Why did he tell him to stop?

00:37:13.360 Is he done?

00:37:14.380 Yeah.

00:37:14.780 Because he had a terrible memory.

00:37:15.860 You know what I said?

00:37:16.440 What was the memory?

00:37:17.000 Is he done?

00:37:17.480 It was, like, there was, like, a boy.

00:37:20.020 He asked for water.

00:37:21.380 he was like like like i can't say bro like he was like i said to stop playing yeah

00:37:30.740 no it reminded to it reminded him that so but what happens in the giver though is he has rules

00:37:37.300 about what he can say and what he can't right he just can't transmit his memories to anybody he

00:37:42.500 can't like tell anything what happens to the training this is strict too it's like it's a

00:37:46.980 a dystopian society so are you saying that the rules and the giver are kind of similar to

00:37:53.120 sometimes the rules of being a boy that you can't talk about some yeah because like not not like

00:38:00.160 that but like like like how sadiq said like like you can't like tell like you can't tell like like

00:38:07.060 difficult um situation like like uh like a family issue like you just like it's just you can't say

00:38:16.200 it out loud you just kind of like express it you just like it's like this is in you like and then

00:38:21.940 the rules for john is he just has it in him yeah that's why yeah okay that's yeah totally interesting

00:38:29.080 connection so and sadiq you also mentioned when you are doing stuff you could tell somebody

00:38:34.620 who is the somebody like people in your community like it could be like your best best best friend

00:38:43.160 your parents your siblings or somebody that like you really really trust or you can like go to like

00:38:49.680 a therapist and talk to them maybe they're like they'll help you and like get in control and get

00:38:55.640 like i don't know you said somebody in your community somebody that you trust

00:39:01.440 where does that trust for authenticity come from like if you know them for a very long time or

00:39:06.980 they're really good at keeping secrets that doesn't mean anything though how if i i know i know people

00:39:12.880 for a long time and I still don't trust them.

00:39:14.720 Oh yeah, no, that's not what I mean, but I meant, like,

00:39:18.840 Like, how they're, like, interactive.

00:39:20.920 Yeah, they actually, like, have your back.

00:39:23.280 They don't, they don't, like, turn you down on anything,

00:39:26.480 and they're just really good, really good people.

00:39:28.880 They appreciate who you are.

00:39:30.240 Yeah, who, like, who understand you, who, like, helps you,

00:39:36.580 and who knows, like, what you're going through.

00:39:39.980 And, like, for your parents, they're the ones that gave birth to you.

00:39:48.160 They're the ones that, like, brought it to the world.

00:39:51.100 So I'm not saying that you should, like, say all your secrets to your parents.

00:39:55.540 I'm just saying that your parents could be supportive in some situations that you're going through and stuff like that.

00:40:03.900 My name is Jonathan, and this is Breaking the Boycode.

00:40:07.120 one of the things that we heard most clearly in this recording session is that you are never

00:40:12.100 alone for me that goes back to the team at next gen men one of the reasons that getting this

00:40:17.240 podcast back on the air was possible was because they gave me their time going through transcripts

00:40:22.540 they gave me their energy helping problem solve the issues with audio footage they gave their

00:40:27.200 encouragement like they are always the first in line to appreciate and advocate for the voices

00:40:32.940 of these boys.

00:40:35.060 NextGenMen is an organization

00:40:36.100 that punches well above

00:40:37.120 its weight class

00:40:37.880 and we rely on listeners like you.

00:40:40.100 So seriously,

00:40:40.620 wherever you are,

00:40:41.500 pull out your phone,

00:40:42.760 type in nextgenmen.ca

00:40:44.560 slash support

00:40:45.460 and meet us there.

00:40:48.080 You can reach me

00:40:49.380 at boypodcast

00:40:50.600 at nextgenmen.ca

00:40:51.640 or at boypodcast

00:40:52.860 on social media.

00:40:54.720 As Sadiq said,

00:40:55.460 the people he can trust

00:40:56.520 are the people who understand

00:40:57.920 and who truly know

00:40:59.340 what he's going through.

00:41:01.280 If you're listening to this,

00:41:02.940 That's you.

Breaking the Boy Code - December 04, 2024

The Ways Boys Experience Cultural Community

Episode Stats

Transcript