00:10:12.860And that was part of what this deal with China is about.
00:10:15.000I think the big question is whether that is going to work.
00:10:17.060But I think it's something that, you know, we do need to try.
00:10:19.380But I think, you know, the other piece of that is that, okay, we're getting more EVs into Canada. But in the process of doing that, the Prime Minister is continuing to water down environmental rules that were put in during the Trudeau era, right? And, you know, even I was listening to CBC yesterday, and they were saying that the modeling on these new kind of like approaches to automobiles, the environmental modeling has not even been done. So they don't know really what the impact is.
00:10:44.840And again, it's like a further watering down through some kind of like new convoluted scheme that Carney has come up with to try to pretend that the environmental, you know, bona fides of Canada are not being like left behind, but they very clearly are in his pursuit of like economic growth and diversification and things like that.
00:11:02.980No, Paris, the carbon capture is going to save us.
00:11:11.180Supriya, did you, are you on board with that take?
00:11:14.120like what do you think do you think that uh we are pursuing uh this diversification and profit
00:11:20.840at the expense of uh the environment with this auto uh yeah rules and stuff i mean maybe look
00:11:27.880i think we we've got we have to diversify our trading partners i think that's clear i think a
00:11:32.520lot of what para said is absolutely right i mean my whole thing is that if we are moving this way
00:11:37.160and we're going to start doing more and more trade with you know countries that we wouldn't
00:11:41.480traditionally necessarily have embarked on trade agreements with, be honest with us. And I look at
00:11:50.140this in the context of like, you know, the entire relationship, the 180 pivot that this government
00:11:55.280has taken with respect to the Modi government in India. And so, you know, if you're saying that
00:12:01.000we need to ignore some of the allegations that have been made, or that the political level isn't
00:12:07.340going to deal with these allegations anymore it's now completely uh into the levels of like national
00:12:12.860security advisors and intel and law enforcement then like just be straight with us tell us that
00:12:18.640you don't actually it doesn't really matter to you right now the allegations of an extrajudicial
00:12:23.780extraterritorial murder of a canadian citizen on canadian soil and that it doesn't matter to you
00:12:28.780that jagmeet uh singh uh and it was was you know had to get an rcmp detailed because the rcmp gave
00:12:35.460him a duty to warn that he had, you know, allegedly agents of the India, of the government
00:12:41.480of India that were tailing him to the point where his wife had to give birth with armed guards
00:12:47.360present. And like, to me, it's still wild that this isn't a bigger story. Because I think that
00:12:54.280if Jagmeet Singh was named John Smith, and his wife had to give birth under the presence of armed
00:12:59.520guards because of a credible threat to their life from a foreign government, to me, that would be a
00:13:06.500little bigger deal within the press gallery and within the political chattering classes than it
00:13:12.360is right now. We've all just seemed to have forgotten it. In the meantime, we have completely
00:13:16.640vindicated and validated the Indian disinformation campaign against the Canadian government and the
00:13:21.640Canadian RCMP and our intel services um and so here we are hoping to ink a free trade deal0.78
00:13:29.520eventually with them which again like okay sure fine you know we've got a lot of stuff that they
00:13:34.860want okay but at what cost and if you're going to do that then just be straight yeah and it you
00:13:41.440know it makes me think about uh I mean Carney really seems to be like pragmatism over everything
00:13:46.740But I think there's a degree to which, as much as it is a myth that we have this like rules-based order, some of that myth is necessary, I guess, for enforcing some norms.
00:14:00.340Like, you know, having consequences, having at least acting as though there are these rules is somewhat important on an international stage.
00:14:09.060So even if it is incredibly flawed, incredibly unfair and incredibly racist in many ways, the way that this is sort of adjudicated and laid out on the international stage, you know, I do worry about how much we're leaving by the wayside in terms of trying to enforce values in this world at the expense of this pursuit of pragmatism.
00:14:35.360And I think that you laid that out really well, Supriya.
00:14:39.180I think you see that in kind of like Carney's approach to foreign policy as well, right?
00:14:43.460Where, you know, obviously he really wants to not anger Donald Trump too much.
00:14:48.180So anytime the United States breaches international law, you know, you kind of see like these
00:14:54.460statements from Canada and from Mark Carney kind of like acting as though the country
00:15:05.200so it's okay or like they literally kidnap uh the president of venezuela and it's like yeah well he
00:15:10.840was a bad guy uh but we would like for people to respect international law or something and it only
00:15:15.460really becomes a problem when they start to to make those uh kind of threats against greenland
00:15:20.200right uh because it's a you know european and whatnot um yeah sorry can i just jump in there
00:15:25.920because you're going on a list and i think it's a good list the one thing i would add to that is
00:15:29.720that canadian icc judge that's been sanctioned by the u.s this is a canadian who can't use her email
00:15:34.540can't use your banking can't travel and we've been like pretty silent about it which is again
00:15:40.420like you know i get that there's a fine line but does it mean you can never stick up for your0.79
00:15:44.480values does it mean you can never stick up for a canadian that's being bullied by the entire heft
00:15:49.840of the american government like i don't know i was even shocked that like you know the big story
00:15:55.400that really interviewed her and talked about what she's going through was published by irish media
00:15:59.900and not canadian media it's like what are you guys doing yeah yeah yeah yeah and and you know
00:16:05.800these are all it's it's been fascinating like i i felt like i got a bit of a i gleaned a bit of
00:16:11.580his mindset in in the speech that he gave where he he talked about countries having to basically
00:16:16.980earn the right to stick up to trump and like basically to me that suggested that he felt we
00:16:22.440hadn't earned that ability yet um before and so i was like okay so is that your explanation for
00:16:29.640all of these kind of gutless moves and and for that to be true again like the after really
00:16:35.800matters and i feel like we we haven't seen super clearly uh what the after looks like yet because
00:16:41.720there haven't been any big tests yet so i'm very curious to see how that goes um speaking of big
00:16:48.600tests um i you know we've got some some by-elections coming up uh a lot of uh liberals have uh you
00:16:56.600you know moved on to greener or international pastures um and uh more to come it seems yeah
00:17:04.640and you know and now conservative twitter's like you see you see all the liberals are leaving too
00:17:09.440and i'm like it's a little different i'm floor crashing but you know um we don't have to use
00:17:13.660our critical thinking skills all the time i guess um and so they got a physician daniel martin is
00:17:20.080running in christia freeland's old writing and then there's also and this one i think is more
00:17:26.720interesting um the ontario ndp deputy leader dolly bigham and i'm sorry if i'm saying her name wrong
00:17:34.320i've literally i hadn't heard of her which is embarrassing um because i don't cover uh you
00:17:39.520know provincial politics that that closely um and uh you know she is running in bill blair's writing
00:17:47.360so i i guess like what do you guys think like she's running for the liberals um what do you
00:17:52.640guys think of these announcements are these big gets for the government my dog clearly thinks that
00:17:59.360so maybe i'll i'll mute myself and let you guys sound off with your thoughts on them
00:18:04.640yeah i mean paris what do you think because i think i probably agree with rachel that the dolly
00:18:08.800uh switcheroo to the federal level liberally is probably a little bit more interesting just
00:18:13.600because, you know, and that's not a knock on Dr. Martin at all.
00:18:17.080Like, I think that's also a good name.
00:18:19.900Folks would probably know her best from like a 2014 Senate testimony0.99
00:18:23.300that she would have given to the U.S. about the benefits of public health care.
00:18:28.220So, look, I think the thing that I find interesting is that now this has created
00:18:32.880this whole ripple of drama in Ontario politics,
00:18:36.380because now that Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, he represents Beaches East York federally,
00:18:42.680It's the neighboring riding of Scarborough Southwest. He's now saying now that Dolly's going to move federally, he's going to do the switcheroo to go back to provincial politics and, you know, run in that riding.
00:18:52.940And now there's some suggestion on corners of the Internet that the Ontario Liberal Party is going to swoop in just to say or make rules, like make a made up rule to suggest that if you're running in that by-election, then you can't then also run for leader, which seems like a rule that's only meant to cock block Nate out of running for leader.0.88
00:19:16.440And it seems like a really dumb idea to me.
00:19:19.280But let's see what they end up doing.0.87
00:19:20.920like what's what's the i think i think they're just they hate themselves they hate winning
00:19:26.200they hate everything they hate joy you know like added to the list sounds about right yeah
00:19:34.520i had not heard that actually um i knew that nate was planning to run to that riding but i hadn't
00:19:39.400heard the the additional uh part of that story uh not surprised with the ontario liberals though
00:19:45.000um uh yeah i i think i would say in general like i i agree right i would say the one i was more
00:19:50.280interested in was danielle martin moving into that seat just simply because again i knew i had
00:19:55.000a better idea of who she was you know i feel like the past few years you know she's been kind of like
00:19:59.260off the radar but you know it was a name i remembered as someone who was a real defender
00:20:03.320of public health care which is you know obviously something that's very important to me especially
00:20:07.300at a time where we see alberta um you know challenging the the public health care system
00:20:12.120you know once again right um and i think that we need more defenders of the public health care
00:20:16.140system. Maybe we don't see the fence of the Canada Health Act enough from the federal government.
00:20:21.660But I think, so I think what I would say is, maybe I find these a little bit surprising,
00:20:26.820because on the one hand, you have someone from the NDP, the Ontario NDP moving into a liberal
00:20:32.020seat. And you have someone like Danielle Martin, who at least I consider to be more of like
00:20:35.960a progressive voice, moving into these seats at a time where the Liberal Party seems to have
00:20:40.480taken a significant shift toward the right. You know, you hear these jokes that the Mark Carney
00:20:45.100government is effectively a progressive conservative government, you know, kind of wrapped in a liberal
00:20:49.580kind of cloak, right? And so I guess that was the only piece of that that kind of surprised me. We
00:20:54.840have seen these like conservative floor crossers, and talks of potentially more of them. But to see0.99
00:21:00.560the Liberal Party kind of attracting these more, you know, at least the voice that you assume to
00:21:07.320be more progressive, I don't, you know, I don't know the Ontario NDP deputy leaders politics very
00:21:12.980well, but I would assume it's a pretty progressive politics if that was the position that she held.
00:21:17.580Then, yeah, that was kind of like the more surprising piece for me, which again, you know,
00:21:21.680I think brings up not just questions about the liberals and where they're going, but questions
00:21:26.540about the NDP as well and what's happening, you know, on that side of things. But yeah, I would
00:21:33.040like to see Danielle Martin in parliament. I don't know what role she'll have under a liberal1.00
00:21:36.640government and how much power she'll have to kind of, you know, defend public healthcare. But yeah,1.00
00:21:42.460guess we'll see but like if her thing was public health care shouldn't she be running at the1.00
00:21:45.820provincial level yeah totally like to me it's also just like a bit of a mismatch oh that dog
00:21:51.820has opinions man unless it's like unless it's like you know defending the canada health act
00:21:56.940and making sure that provinces actually hold to their responsibilities right but um again that
00:22:01.500that requires more than one single mp to to do that unless they're moving her right into the
00:22:05.820the health portfolio and you know telling her to go after it okay i think my dog is oh no she's
00:22:13.860still busy but they the thing i heard her food just arrived her food delivery so she's very
00:22:19.380excited right now it's like doggy uber eats but anyway not really it's just dry food
00:22:24.160but uh no basically like i totally i agree with you guys on um on several friends especially like
00:22:35.580The thing that really struck me about Dolly specifically is you've got to worry and wonder about, I think it definitely either says something about the Ontario NDP's fortunes or about Dolly herself.
00:22:52.260Because to me, it's an expression of sort of, I don't know, political cynicism or, you know, it's the kind of thing that at least makes the onlooking public feel more cynicism because Mark Carney's liberals have, you know, to date been very much governing like a progressive conservative party.
00:23:14.040So it's one thing for conservative MPs who identify maybe as progressive conservatives who maybe don't see themselves in the same to the same degree as conservatives under the Pierre Polyev banner, as they might identify with Mark Carney's liberals.
00:23:30.220like you could I can see how someone could cross the floor under those circumstances without
00:23:34.460betraying their personal politics but it's harder for me to see that from someone with an NDP
00:23:41.300background jumping to this federal liberal party and you know it just makes me wonder about the
00:23:47.520impact that that has on you know how Canadians feel about our politics like you know are these
00:23:53.220people in it for uh actual desire for change based on firmly held principles or is it power
00:24:00.960for power's sake and I just think that in these moments it's uh it can be really I don't know uh
00:24:08.960disenfranchising in a way uh for people to witness I don't know if you guys agree with that though
00:24:14.940because I'm not as familiar with Dolly's politics so I would just say that like I don't know like I
00:24:20.880I agree with your assessment in terms of like it being perhaps a little bit easier on the ideological spectrum for progressive conservatives or those that would consider themselves progressive conservatives within the current conservative caucus to floor across over to the carny liberals.
00:24:36.600But the only thing I would say to that is that all of every single one of those caucus members decided to put their name on a ballot under Pierre Polyev as conservative leader.
00:24:45.640None of them were there when he wasn't leader. Right.
00:24:47.740like they were all so so to me it's like what changed right what changed was he lost the
00:24:53.880election and they're not in government so all of them would have been fine with the leadership
00:24:59.160style of Pierre Polyev had they been on those government benches and not on the opposition
00:25:03.380benches so I don't know more cynicism well yeah like I just said I don't like letting them go
00:25:09.520on that because to me that's a real cowardly kind of thing to do like at least um in in the context
00:25:16.440of Dolly, you know, like, I also don't disagree. Like, I would have thought her to be a little
00:25:23.360bit more on the progressive side of the ledger. And so, again, going to the carny liberals is
00:25:28.980somewhat head scratching. But then you're like, okay, but there are at least a lot of progressive
00:25:32.840liberal caucus members within that caucus still, right? And so it's not like she wouldn't have a
00:25:38.920home within liberal caucus, I guess, and so I don't, so I don't know, like, to me, and I also
00:25:47.880don't know how closely folks, like regular normal normies, right, that aren't steeped in politics
00:25:54.660every day, even fully will recognize the cross, and I don't mean that from like, but like she has
00:26:04.100a lot of name recognition in scarborough southwest she's been serving as the mpp there for quite some0.57
00:26:09.820time so i'd imagine as she's door knocking around as a liberal i don't know if she would provoke
00:26:16.100cynicism because most people would be like oh you used to be provincial oh now you're federal oh okay
00:26:21.500yeah sure um but i don't know maybe i maybe that's overly simplistic no i hope you're right
00:26:27.700there's also like a lot of i would say you know at least from like personal experience and i feel
00:26:34.260like what i've seen in the polls there's a lot of you know kind of like goodwill extended toward
00:26:38.600mark carney and his liberal party at the moment as well uh especially given like the political
00:26:43.080dynamics with the united states you know i know people who who vote ndp regularly but are not like
00:26:48.860you know super like diehard political people partisan people who are like
00:26:52.560yeah i like mark what mark carney's doing he i think he's doing a good you know it's like
00:26:56.800they're not paying attention to every little detail but they like the fact that they think
00:27:01.380that he's the guy to to go against trump especially when polyev is the other option right um so yeah
00:27:07.240so you know i i think it's right to be concerned about the cynicism but i feel like with where a
00:27:14.360lot of the public is at the moment i don't know if they're paying too much attention to to the
00:27:18.100floor crossing and i don't know if you come from my part of the country the the parties all seem
00:27:22.440very similar and we're used to that kind of thing anyway so yeah you know I but I found it
00:27:28.560interesting what you said about like I mean the people feeling as though Carney is the guy for
00:27:33.880this moment right like the NDP like is it dead is there a way for it to come back from the brink I
00:27:41.860mean recent polling some of it has been really bad like depending on which pollster you look at
00:27:47.180One of them even had, I think, the NDP with no seats if an election were held. I think it was
00:27:52.780like two days ago. Can the NDP survive, first of all, under this electoral system? And can it come
00:28:03.580back from its current political out-to-pasture-ness? So I'm old enough to remember when everybody said
00:28:14.220the liberal party was dead right i remember that and there were all these articles and all i think
00:28:20.940there was even a book written uh to suggest that from now on the conservatives were going to be
00:28:25.740unstoppable and just now that harper had his 2011 majority here on out it's blue sails all the way
00:28:32.620through so i think you know the party can come back i think what they've sort of had difficulty
00:28:39.500with in light of and you know the conservatives had this difficulty as well but like when everything
00:28:44.860is focused on trump and the economy and trade then the guy who has steered not a country not
00:28:54.540just through one crisis but through two separate crises right first the 08 financial crisis and
00:28:59.580then uh post brexit in the uk they're like okay yeah he's the guy um i think what the ndp should
00:29:07.820be doing is raising issues where they are differentiating themselves from the liberals
00:29:13.980and pointing out the mismatch between the rhetoric and action um but i mean they need a leader first
00:29:20.460and i don't think that's certainly helping them right now that they're you know and no that's not
00:29:23.660a knock on don davies i think he's doing a great job as interim leader um but you know they need
00:29:27.980a permanent leader in place to sort of figure out what's what's going on um and to really get their
00:29:34.540their vibe and their mojo back but i think there's a lot of stuff that they could be hammering the
00:29:39.500government on from a progressive side particularly on a lot of the tech stuff right um like think
00:29:44.220about the way that this government is just sort of going all in on ai which is basically just to
00:29:49.660slash a bunch of public service jobs um and rely on chat bots like i don't know like to me that's
00:29:57.260worrying it's worrying when you when you when you hear the the minister of uh ai and digital
00:30:03.260innovation uh refer to needing regs around ai that are light tight and right because of what the us
00:30:10.860is doing right like i i i don't know like um there's there's a lot of material there for the
00:30:16.380ndp to go after so i wait till they get a leader and i guess i'll start doing it i don't know
00:30:22.060chris i know that must have been hard for you to listen to because you love ai and evan solomon so
00:30:26.700much so i don't know if you have a rebuttal totally well like and when evan solomon like
00:30:32.140explicitly comes out in in response to media reports suggesting that the uk canada and i think
00:30:37.260it was australia are talking about banning x to like very clearly say we're not banning x and then
00:30:42.760you have toby lutke responding basically like thanking him for what he's doing yeah which is
00:30:48.220like terrible right but but to your point supriya around the role of the chatbots i can't remember
00:30:54.460the exact stats but there was i believe it was an auditor general report recently on the chatbot
00:30:58.260that Revenue Canada had rolled out about how inaccurate the information that it was providing
00:31:03.760the Canadians was, right? So it's like, you really can't depend on these things. But the government
00:31:09.000has fully bought into the notion that one, they should be kind of like jumping on this AI bandwagon,
00:31:14.060but also, it seems that they are very much desiring to keep the tech industry on side,
00:31:20.680rather than, you know, kind of having them as opponents as they have become at the end of the
00:31:25.260Trudeau. I hadn't noticed. I don't remember. Yeah. How do you feel about like the, this shift
00:31:33.400from it's still under the liberal banner because you did a lot of work to, um, you know, address
00:31:38.960that sort of social media, you know, tech stuff and privacy and data protection. Yeah. I mean,
00:31:46.520look, I think it's an interesting shift again. Like I get that you need to have stakeholders
00:31:52.420on site. I'm not discounting that. But I just, look, and I'm not one of these people that's like,
00:32:00.460AI is all bad. Like, I just don't think that LLM chat bots are like, what's going to save us,
00:32:06.660right? Like, I don't, to me, that's not the promise of AI is like this, like trying to make
00:32:12.760a penguin surfing down a whatever, like a snowboarding hill, right? Like, to me, the advent
00:32:20.060in AI is going to be looking at a bunch of different scans of radiological scans of different
00:32:26.000cancers and figuring out what some of the precursor markers are for that, not necessarily
00:32:32.600what we're using it for currently. So I don't know. To me, I think we need proper guide rails.
00:32:39.800I think we need risk assessments on technologies. I think a broad duty to act responsibly
00:32:44.280makes a whole heck of a lot of sense um it worries me when regulations are described as
00:32:51.200needing to be light tight and right uh and the reason given is that then we'd be off offside
00:32:55.940from the u.s without acknowledging that the eu um and you know much of the rest of the world is
00:33:02.640moving in a different direction um but again like it just the it's the longer term stuff that kind
00:33:11.860worries me because what happens when we go all in on these chatbots you know not just for cra but
00:33:17.380for other like do you remember how what a big deal it was when passports were slightly delayed and
00:33:22.020people were all up in arms like what do you think is going to happen when people are trying to get
00:33:25.540benefits or they can't you know or the or the chatbots giving them wrong information for their
00:33:30.340for their stuff like they're going to be repercussions to these things and i don't
00:33:33.860know if we've thought them out properly totally and we've seen how that's played out in other
00:33:37.780parts of the world already right where these technologies have been rolled out and people
00:33:40.900have been really negatively affected by it and i think i would just add like on the technology
00:33:44.580point like i completely agree with everything that you're saying and it's like on the one hand
00:33:49.460if we're in this moment where we're questioning our relationship to the united states and you
00:33:53.620know what it means to have for canada to have sovereignty in in this new era being totally
00:33:58.740dependent on so many of these u.s technologies you know is you know obviously calling that in
00:34:04.020the question right especially when we see the way that they have been using it for example like you
00:34:07.700said against the icc judge the canadian one but many others as well and how quickly people can
00:34:12.580be cut off but then the other piece of that as well is um you know to think about the harms that
00:34:17.860actually come from a lot of these technologies right and of course the reason why there was
00:34:21.940a discussion about banning x was because this platform and and the grot chatbot on it was
00:34:26.340being used to create non-explicit non-consensual explicit images of like millions of people
00:34:31.700including children including children yeah and the government and and like evan solomon could
00:34:37.500simply say that you know basically we think this is wrong but was not really doing anything you
00:34:42.220know tangible about it right and i think for a lot of canadians this slap is like the completely
00:34:46.620wrong way to be approaching this especially in this moment right um and to say that we are not
00:34:53.260banning x as a quote tweet of his condemnation of those deep fakes i just found that like just such
00:34:59.880own goal too which by the way is christ he didn't mention x in the in the in the original tweet
00:35:07.160about being a generator and disseminator of child sexual abuse material but managed to mention the
00:35:14.140platform by name in a tweet posted slightly after midnight on a weekend to say they weren't going
00:35:19.540to ban it um yeah that the tech bros immediately lauded as paris mentioned earlier yeah it's it's
00:35:26.160shocking right uh it would be a good opportunity for the ndp to come in and really have something
00:35:30.140uh strong on tech policy to try to differentiate themselves exactly um and you know paris you
00:35:36.640mentioned new brunswick as well that they uh they've made the move to uh get off of x i mean
00:35:42.040so clearly it can be done totally like you know i think good on susan holt for uh you know making
00:35:49.820that move and i would like to see every other canadian province not to mention the federal
00:35:54.440government follow suit and do exactly the same thing. Like, why should you be posting on this
00:35:59.440platform that has this chatbot that's enabling these things, that is run by a man who, again,
00:36:06.420explicitly attacks Canada, has been associated with the Trump agenda, and has turned this platform
00:36:11.020into something that is basically where the algorithm is designed to push out these right-wing
00:36:16.080and far-right messages and to try to radicalize people down this path. Especially when you see
00:36:21.180that these accounts are not even, these government accounts are often not even getting very much
00:36:25.080traction. Like not many people are looking at and even seeing these things. So like,
00:36:28.820why are you posting there? Why are you legitimizing this platform when there are other ways that you
00:36:33.640can get this message out to Canadians? And I would say, I think it's a time again for the
00:36:37.680government to think about, yeah, they should be posting on social media platforms where people
00:36:42.020actually are, you know, I have problems with Facebook, but there's a lot of Canadians who
00:36:45.680use Facebook a lot more than use Twitter X. So I think it's justified in still posting there.
00:36:51.180But, you know, thinking about the ways to continue reaching Canadians that are not through these platforms that are owned by American companies in a way that, you know, maybe has not been as much of the focus for a while.
00:37:03.300Okay, I want to make sure that we have time to talk a little bit about the conservatives, the Conservative Convention, the rogue U.S. trip, all that stuff, because we're going to pivot to audience questions in about 10 minutes.
00:37:15.280So first off, let's talk about the fact that they opted to keep Poliev. What do you guys think about that? Do you think, like, Supriana, I'll go to you first. Like, is this a good thing for the Conservatives? Is this a good thing for Mark Carney? What does this mean for the future of the party? Does it actually mean anything when he was widely expected to survive this? Like, does it mean he's going to survive to the next election? What are your thoughts on this?
00:37:39.320Yeah, I mean, I think the writing was kind of on the wall that he was going to survive the leadership review, right? He's very much beloved by the Conservative membership, by the Conservative base. So, I mean, I don't think anybody that has a knowledge of Canadian federal politics thought that this guy was not going to pass his leadership review with flying collars.
00:37:59.360I think the problem that the conservatives are going to have, and this is going to be true whomever is leader, but it's particularly true of Polyev because of his own style that he's developed over the years, is that you need an answer to Donald Trump and you don't need a good answer.
00:38:16.960you just need an answer and they're not then right now their their move is to just pretend he doesn't
00:38:22.960exist um and you can't do that because there's one person that's responsible for like upending
00:38:28.960our relationship with the u.s and it is donald trump right now and then you know by extension
00:38:33.160of that his administration and the rest of the mega folks that are uh you know pushing it
00:38:38.260but the we all know the reason why he's not doing that right and it's because a sizable
00:38:43.540chunk of the conservative uh voters um approve of donald trump in in much higher numbers than
00:38:51.140the rest of the country and it you know if you look at it it's like you look at ndp liberal
00:38:55.780black quebecois voters there's like you know less than like five percent support for trump
00:39:00.500uh his policies his agenda etc you look at conservative voters depending on the poll it
00:39:05.220goes anywhere between 35 and like 40 ish 41 42 that's not an insignificant amount of people
00:39:12.420right so like they are in a bit of a pickle um i think the thing where polyev does have a path to
00:39:19.060victory is if donald trump and the u.s trade issue kind of recedes to the to the background
00:39:26.580somewhat and he can make crime and affordability and some of these other more pocketbook issues
00:39:32.340uh into the foreground and make that like the the main sort of driving question but
00:39:37.540he's still going to need some sort of answer to trump um and he doesn't have one even with
00:39:43.220jameel and we'll talk i know i'm sure we'll talk about this a little bit more but like
00:39:46.260he's kind of dancing around what the issue is right he's like our relationship with the united
00:39:52.020states is very important and it's like i'm here to make sure it's repaired and it's like well who
00:39:55.940broke it face like what like enjoy that impression yeah yeah yeah yeah you know who's got an answer
00:40:04.580at least is very much trying to present himself as having an answer is jason kenny he's like i i
00:40:09.380could if i was pierre polyev i'd feel those knife points at my back like jason kenny is clearly
00:40:13.780angling to uh phil polyev's shoes once he's clearly so blatant even on cbc he was like straight up
00:40:20.260right away being like talking about how you know you really should have gone after trump in his
00:40:24.100speech and it just anyway yeah um but paris your thoughts on yeah i i think it's completely
00:40:30.580unsurprising that that he that he you know got a high amount of support i do wonder if you know
00:40:36.120in response to now having survived the leadership race and again i know that there's like a constant
00:40:40.680discussion of oh is this the moment where he finally like pivots and presents a different
00:40:44.100face and blah blah blah like if there's ever a time for him to do it now is the time to do it
00:40:48.500but i don't actually expect him to do it right but if he was going to seize the opportunity now
00:40:52.780that he doesn't get need to get like the hardcore base to support him in a leadership vote if he was
00:40:57.940going to present a different face, now would be the opportunity for him to try. Again, I think
00:41:02.940the nature of who he is makes that very difficult for him to do, and I don't expect him to do it.
00:41:08.620I think maybe the other piece I would add is, you know, if we're thinking about like a prime
00:41:13.080minister, Polyev, I think the discussion that we had about the NDP is actually very
00:41:17.260important to that, right? Because on the one hand, you kind of need the NDP to start splitting that
00:41:22.740vote, to start pulling the vote away from the liberals in the electoral system that we have
00:41:26.880for him to rise and to get there. But then the other piece of that is that I think
00:41:30.880while he is there, it also creates an incentive for the NDP to be lower because you have a lot
00:41:37.520of people who are more progressive leaning, who just really do not want to see him become
00:41:43.660prime minister because they associate him with Trump. And so they are willing to leave their
00:41:49.240vote with the liberals in order to make sure that the conservatives don't form government, right?
00:41:53.820um so yeah there's there's attention there as well yeah i you know another person who i think
00:42:00.560wants polyop's job is jamil javani that's my theory about his whole uh gambit with honestly
00:42:06.380his gambits overall like he's been really trying to push brand jamil javani like he
00:42:12.160posts all these videos to his social media with his jamil javani background and no conservative
00:42:18.160party branding he's like doing this do we know who all the signatures are from on that sign
00:42:23.100know i have no idea i'm assuming maybe it's like campaign team but i'm not sure um but also like
00:42:29.780i don't know i i got a very clear sense from the way that everyone reacted to this in the last week
00:42:37.300that this was a rogue trip to washington like even polyette when he was being asked about it by
00:42:43.220reporters first of all he like filibustered in french for like he spoke for like three minutes
00:42:48.860to the media, just like going on and on, on his way into his meeting with Carney, uh, yesterday,
00:42:53.420I believe. And then he also, or two days ago, I think, um, anyway, and, uh, and he, when he spoke
00:43:01.740about Jamil Giovanni's trip, he's like, well, I tell all of my MPs to, uh, defend their writings
00:43:07.520and their writings interests. And I'm like, okay, so you, at least he's either intentionally
00:43:14.220distancing himself from this for some kind of strategic reason if he was aware or he didn't
00:43:19.780know and jamil javani said or jamil javani said i'm going and there's you can't stop me and that's
00:43:25.120to me also why he ended up with the briefing from the blanc he just said okay well i'm going so you
00:43:30.460either tell me something or you don't but i'm gonna go and have these conversations i don't know
00:43:33.940what you guys what your read is on this but it seems to me like he's just a rogue dude who wants0.99
00:43:38.900attention and is going down to the states and like looking like the biggest ass kisser ever0.96
00:43:44.620with the way that he's talking about his conversations and like the kind of messages
00:43:49.100he's bringing back and ask his or two specifically the united states not to canada but i'm very
00:43:55.100curious to see your reactions to to this whole move and your thoughts on it sapria you want to
00:43:59.260take first crack yeah sure i mean look i agree with you about the branding thing because that's
00:44:04.520the first thing that sort of jumped out at me right there's no conservative branding anywhere
00:44:07.780He's got that giant blue banner behind him. It says Jamil Javani, right?
00:44:11.280There's presumably a CPC logo on there somewhere, but you don't see it.
00:44:15.020All you see is that blue banner and then that restore the North cap,
00:44:18.040which again is his own personal brand associated with his like, you know,
00:44:22.220Canadian Charlie Kirk university tour that he's doing.
00:44:25.660It has nothing to do with Karapaliev or the general conservative brand, you know,
00:44:31.540But I think the tone on its face that Jamil is taking of like, I'm going there for Canada, this is not a partisan issue.
00:44:41.860I think that's largely what the vast majority of Canadians would want to hear and expect from our elected politicians.
00:44:48.660I think, again, it gets tricky because this is the problem he's going to run into is that you have to call out the cause of the mess.
00:44:54.660And the mess, once again, is Donald Trump.
00:44:56.680And again, you know, to your point of whether or not he had the blessing of his leader, I mean, I'd also ask if he had the blessings of his colleagues who are the actual trade critics, right? Like, he doesn't represent the government of Canada. He doesn't represent the official opposition. He doesn't have a critic role on the opposition benches. So it's like, dude, how are you going there? Under what capacity? You're going there because you're bros with the vice president?
00:45:21.120Okay, cool. But that doesn't give you legitimacy or the authority to negotiate a hugely complicated and multifaceted trade file. So good for him. He got like a week's worth of news cycle out of it. But like, I don't, I don't really expect this to be anywhere.
00:45:38.920And I'd imagine that if I was in the leader's office, like the leader of the official opposition, Pierre Polyev's office, I would keep my eye on Jamil.
00:45:47.960And I would and I would have I probably would have brought him in for a little bit of wrist slapping, you know, like what's like, who told you to go down there?
00:45:56.040Why don't you tell me? And I think this likely caught the conservatives off guard, which, again, to me, doesn't say team player.
00:46:03.080It's it says I'm thinking about my own personal ambitions a few years from now.
00:46:08.920Yeah, like you were on that panel, the power politics panel, when David Cochran, the CDC host, was speaking to Lisa Raitt, a former conservative cabinet minister, who I assume is still fairly tapped in with the conservatives.
00:46:21.160And you can correct me if I'm wrong about that. But like, you know, and she asked David, did he inform the opposition that he was going?
00:46:28.620and just like here and then her going here here after you said that he had no like reason to be
00:46:34.940there no one told him to go there makes me think that yes this did catch them off guard was that
00:46:39.820your takeaway from her reaction too and do you think that's fair to yeah yeah i i think that's
00:46:44.740fair to assume um and i'll be interested to see like what happens next so like he he said he had
00:46:49.560the message from the president for canadians which is like we love canada and it's like okay great
00:46:54.360i guess but then he goes on this pivot about how like canadians shouldn't be you know pursuing
00:47:00.520stuff with china and it's like well have you looked at what the u.s is doing like again it
00:47:04.700just seems very bizarre to me that the conservatives refuse to call out the very obvious 800 pound
00:47:11.700gorilla in the room yeah paris your thoughts on jamil's uh little vacation yeah i i don't have
00:47:18.820really a ton to add. I clearly do not like this man at all. You know, he's obviously very much
00:47:24.880aligned with like the politics of a JD Vance and Donald Trump. And it's not really a figure who I
00:47:30.640want to see getting more attention or, you know, more prominence in Canadian politics. I just think
00:47:36.840it was really a big joke. And, you know, if anything, I think that it probably got more
00:47:40.820attention than it deserved, which was exactly what he wanted, but maybe was not what he should
00:47:46.460have gotten yeah okay guys i want to turn to audience questions i know we were i tried to
00:47:52.940leave a little time for us to talk about harper but i got too into all the other stuff so uh you
00:47:57.440know his his uh beautiful harper's good now apparently uh is what i've learned yeah carney
00:48:02.580had very nice things to say about him which uh you know isn't a huge surprise because he has very
00:48:06.180nice things to say about carney but um you know uh we'll see if there's maybe an audience question
00:48:11.540about that but uh i want to give the audience a chance to ask you guys some stuff because supria
00:48:16.020i know has a hard out of noon so she's gonna have to jump off um but paris maybe maybe paris and i
00:48:22.340will linger a little bit longer um but while i give the audience a chance to put their questions
00:48:27.460in the chat can you guys please tell them where they can keep up with you supri i'll let you
00:48:32.340go first oh yeah okay so i'm on instagram at soups davetti i'm on blue sky at supriya
00:48:40.180i'm on twitter at supriative eddie i write for uh the toronto star and canada's national observer
00:48:47.700so you can read me there and i'm on power and politics and real talk with ryan jesperson on
00:48:53.200mondays nice and you paris where can they find you um yeah i'm on i'm on blue sky that's the
00:49:01.140main place that i post uh i have a podcast called tech won't save us i have a newsletter called
00:49:05.380disconnect those are the main things i have a book coming out later this year but you know you'll have
00:49:09.680to stay tuned for more information on that nice okay I'm actually not seeing any questions in
00:49:15.500the chat just yet so do you guys want to take a crack on like what what was your thought what
00:49:20.000are your thoughts on uh the presentation and the framing that Harper got uh in this last week um
00:49:27.140you know do you feel as though it's been a fair reflection of his legacy um is this just the
00:49:31.980polite thing to do um you know like what what are your thoughts on it was obviously because his
00:49:37.980portrait was unveiled uh you know so there it is for those of you who are watching on video um
00:49:43.700yeah what were your thoughts on the treatment harper got this week sabria maybe i'll let you
00:49:47.480go first yet again uh just because i know that you've got a that heart out and i want to make
00:49:52.540sure you get your your licks in or lack thereof yeah look i mean i think to paris's remark about
00:50:00.620apparently stephen harper is good now i think you know it's likely in direct comparison to what the
00:50:07.860current iteration of the conservative party is right it's kind of like somewhat analogous to
00:50:12.020the way that um in the states people yearn for george w bush right um because now we're dealing
00:50:18.900with with trump and i'm not comparing you know maga to the current conservative party but i just
00:50:24.740think there's like oh remember a time when the prime minister could speak in full sentences and
00:50:29.540didn't just speak in slogans like so i think there's a bit of that right um but like i don't
00:50:35.540from my perspective like again like anybody who uh is a liberal an ndp or a black quebecois that's
00:50:43.620around my age i mean we have a lot to thank prime minister harper for because the reality is the
00:50:48.580harper government is what radicalized a bunch of millennials to get into politics right like
00:50:54.180i i still remember writing a final paper for this environmental law class i took in my third
00:50:58.660year of law school where we were looking at canada's role uh in the asbestos industry uh
00:51:04.340you know and how we were pushing it into the global south and there was this environment
00:51:08.020canada report that i needed to cite that had been pulled down it'd be completely scrubbed
00:51:11.700off of off of government websites um so i put down i put out a few emails trying to track down this
00:51:16.980report and my law professor ends up getting a call from environment canada asking why i needed the
00:51:24.340report what type of paper i was writing what type of research she did what qualified us to write
00:51:30.260about the industry and it was just like it was weird and chilling and dystopian and i was like
00:51:35.220i don't like it and uh i you know i was like okay this is this is silly and i yeah that's
00:51:44.660was the beginning of my foray into um becoming a capital l liberal so this is supriya's uh
00:51:51.140backhanded compliment for harper thank you for being such an that a bunch of us got into politics
00:52:05.160Like, I feel like these are all people who didn't actually live during the Harper years
00:52:10.340or something like that, or, you know, have just decided to completely forget what the
00:52:13.640Harper government was and what it did and what it represented.
00:52:16.820And like, even to Supriya's point about it being like, you know, something better than0.75
00:52:21.360what we're seeing now with Polyev, it's like, you know, but at the same time, it very much
00:52:26.080set the stage for uh for the conservative party that we had now i i would argue in in the sense
00:52:31.780that you know i don't i don't think you'd have a pier poliev without uh you know stephen harper
00:52:36.660and the government that that he created right it was like it felt like harper was somewhat
00:52:40.940restrained from really going for it um you know because of you know the merger with the pcs but
00:52:47.040also like the the nature of the moment that he was operating in and the need to make sure that
00:52:50.720he kept enough canadians on side to try to get his majority government um but i feel like you've
00:52:55.380seen a lot more of that kind of fall away, you know, under the Polyev leadership, of course,
00:53:00.780you know, things have changed since then. But at the same time, it's like, you know,
00:53:06.100you mentioned the positive words from Mark Carney. And as Supri is talking about, you know,
00:53:10.420the kind of repression and stuff that we saw under the Harper regime, it also brings to mind how
00:53:15.880Carney is gutting Statistics Canada and, you know, so many of these important agencies, and we don't
00:53:21.080seem to be talking nearly enough about what he's doing to the capacity of the public service,
00:53:26.100you know, which was obviously something that Harper took kind of a bone saw to as well.
00:53:31.600So yeah, I just, I think it's absolutely shocking to see how he's treated, but I also think it's
00:53:36.880not surprising because I think we tend to have this, you know, kind of history, especially when
00:53:42.360people die, but also when they're being honored, these ways of kind of like forgetting the negative
00:53:45.800parts of what they've done and kind of, you know, trying to look at the positives. And I think that
00:53:50.540does us all kind of a disservice and actually understanding how we got to the point um that
00:53:55.140we're at today uh and speaking of representation of harper i would say you know i think he looks
00:54:00.420a bit thinner than i remember him being at any time in his portrait then you think you think
00:54:06.520they yassified him a little bit i do yeah definitely treatment that's funny okay i'm
00:54:13.700gonna let sapria slip away um paris maybe if you've got just a couple more minutes there's
00:54:18.060a couple of questions in the chat that we'll just like i'm just gonna bounce thanks guys
00:54:24.140this is awesome okay take care um all right so paris uh i'm gonna pull up it's people have
00:54:31.740honestly just been chatting in the chat which is really nice to see that's what you want in a chat
00:54:36.220right definitely um but it's a little hard i'm having a hard time like finding the question so
00:54:41.580i apologize in advance but there is one here from curlow tech who says i feel like there's
00:54:46.700a huge opportunity for the NDP to fill the ever-widening gap on the left that the liberals
00:54:51.360are leaving behind. What do you think it would take for them to regain their footing?
00:54:56.640Oh, I definitely think so. Obviously, if you listen to the party hacks, they will tell you
00:55:01.580the complete opposite. If you listen to the people who are often representing the NDP in media,
00:55:07.460they talk about it needing to be more electable and things like that, which means to have more
00:55:10.820of a centrist leader. Obviously, I think that's completely the opposite of what they need,
00:55:15.220especially at a moment where you have, you know, a Mark Carney, who's basically a progressive
00:55:18.980conservative leading the country. Yeah. And so, you know, I think that that basically means
00:55:26.380the NDP does need to take that direction, what it actually looks like, how they do that effectively,
00:55:30.500I think is a bigger question. And whether given the political moment, they can get enough Canadians
00:55:35.380on side with a message like that is also like, you know, it's not something against the message,
00:55:41.200But just a reflection of the moment that we're in where I think Canadians are focused on pushing back against Trump and also making sure that Pierre Polyev doesn't become the prime minister, at least, you know, Canadians on that on that side of the spectrum.
00:55:53.140Right. And which is why they've kind of parked themselves with the liberals for the for the moment.
00:55:57.780You know what that means for the leadership race.
00:55:59.780You know, I think our kind of co-leader chosen pair, Rachel, has, you know, kind of been eliminated at this point.
00:56:10.240Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, we'll have to see we'll have to see who comes out on top. You know, I think that there's arguments to be honestly, I think that there's arguments to be made for each of them. And I think that each of the candidates are making those arguments. You know, obviously, the person whose policies I'm more interested in are Avi Lewis, you know, quite clearly. Right.
00:56:30.480um but yeah again like i i think there's an open question about the ndp at the moment not that
00:56:39.020they're going away but you know whether they can really gain traction in this in this moment i
00:56:44.000think uh yeah it's still something we that remains to be seen yeah definitely it's um yeah i i because
00:56:51.740i i agree like i don't want to count uh any party out like what supria was saying because i i also
00:56:57.620remember when the liberals were like quashed down to almost nothing and and the NDP has been here