Bubble Pop with Rachel Gilmore - November 21, 2025


Getting to know the underdogs in the NDP leadership race (feat. Tanille Johnston and Tony McQuail)


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 13 minutes

Words per minute

172.91

Word count

12,761

Sentence count

322


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 Hello, I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist. Welcome to
00:00:10.780 Bubble Pop. This is the weekly show where we talk about some of the biggest headlines
00:00:15.320 and juiciest news tidbits so you don't have to doom scroll. We got to kick that habit, folks.
00:00:21.360 It's just melting our brains. And for season two, as you know by now, we are doing it live.
00:00:27.960 So just a reminder that if you want to support the show, you can subscribe on Patreon, Substack,
00:00:33.340 and YouTube, as well as anywhere you like to listen.
00:00:36.480 And today, I have got a very special show for you.
00:00:40.640 In one week, the NDP leadership candidates will face off in the first debate for the
00:00:47.200 race to replace former NDP leader Jagmeet Singh.
00:00:51.820 But who is actually running?
00:00:54.680 And what the heck do they stand for?
00:00:57.520 Well, today, you're going to get to hear from two of the candidates.
00:01:02.800 I'm calling them the underdogs, which I hope they don't take offense to because it's a compliment.
00:01:08.240 Because the thing is, while they might not have had the same profile as some of their competitors
00:01:13.840 going into this, it's so important to get to know the underdogs because next thing you know,
00:01:20.320 they end up coming out on top. So first up, you will be hearing from Tennille Johnson.
00:01:26.800 sorry, Tamil Johnston. She's a social worker, a city councillor, a mother, and a former city
00:01:32.720 councillor who almost won a federal NDP seat in the last election. Unfortunately, strategic voting
00:01:39.840 split the vote on the traditionally NDP seat and guess who snuck in? None other than residential
00:01:46.240 school denier, Erin Gunn. So we're going to have a lot to chat about. Speaking of strategic voting
00:01:51.920 though, electoral reform is a key aspect of this other leadership candidate's push. Tony McQuail
00:01:58.720 is a farmer, educator, and advocate for a more sustainable Canada. But more on him at 1230.
00:02:06.160 And just a reminder, I'm going to be trying to leave about 10 minutes at the end of each of
00:02:09.760 these interviews to take some audience questions. I will prioritize those who use the super chat
00:02:14.400 function. But please ask away anyway, because we usually have time to take some of both.
00:02:19.840 and then after that we're going to do a little right lightning round with both of the candidates
00:02:24.640 together so with that let's bring up our first ndp leadership candidate i am so excited we've got
00:02:33.360 tenille johnston her key priorities touch on housing health care the environment free and
00:02:38.560 accessible post-secondary education increasing child's care spaces electoral reform public
00:02:44.160 transit and increasing the representation and participation of indigenous people she's doing
00:02:49.040 everything she can to personally contribute to that last pillar as she's the first indigenous
00:02:54.480 woman in ndp history to run for the federal party's top job that injects some much needed
00:02:59.840 diversity into an otherwise pasty as hell race so to neil welcome to bubble pop
00:03:11.120 hey how's it going how are you doing
00:03:14.400 Good, you know, just your average crazy Thursday morning here in Likulto territory in Campbell
00:03:24.540 River, where I'm born and raised and proud to be from.
00:03:28.400 Yeah, I can imagine.
00:03:29.980 I feel like, you know, just describing all of the hats that you wear, I'm like, this
00:03:35.420 is just a busy woman.
00:03:37.520 So thank you for making some time for this.
00:03:39.740 I did want to start off by asking you one thing that's really struck me about the leadership
00:03:50.480 candidates, and it's not really a surprise when you think about it because you're all running
00:03:56.020 for the leadership of the same party, is that there is a lot of overlap in the positions and
00:04:02.420 what a lot of you guys stand for. So I wanted to, right off the bat, give you an opportunity
00:04:07.060 to kind of give me and the audience your elevator pitch.
00:04:12.280 What is it that sets you apart from the other candidates?
00:04:16.860 I think there's some physical stuff for sure.
00:04:20.600 Like I'm about a decade younger
00:04:23.000 than the next youngest person in the race.
00:04:25.080 So I'm a different generation in its entirety.
00:04:28.820 Social work is my game.
00:04:30.920 That's my education.
00:04:31.820 That's my passion.
00:04:32.540 That's the lens that I bring to everything.
00:04:34.380 As you've already offered,
00:04:35.480 I'm an Indigenous woman. So that comes with its own worldview and lens that is unique to everyone
00:04:42.440 else in the race. And I come with that ability to have very challenging conversations and work
00:04:49.040 across excessive difference. As a social worker, you enter into conversations that
00:04:55.380 the person in the room already doesn't like you. It's already extremely heated. And you have to
00:05:01.120 leave that room with some sort of agreement in place on how you're going to work better together
00:05:05.200 moving forward and i i believe that that is the work of politics you are working with folks that
00:05:10.560 arguably are going to disagree with you 99 of the time but for the betterment of the country you
00:05:16.320 have to come towards some sort of alignment and agreement to make decisions that are going to be
00:05:21.040 good for all canadians so i feel like that skill set sets me apart from a lot of the other folks
00:05:26.880 um in the race along with just you know my lived experience um definitely was there a moment in
00:05:33.200 that lived experience that made you decide that you wanted to be someone who uh you know
00:05:40.000 wasn't just an advocate but led that advocacy i think we look for those moments that are telling
00:05:48.000 us what to do um a couple a couple for me so when i was super young this is elementary school years
00:05:54.400 two things happened one um i was hearing a group of friends talk about people that they didn't know
00:06:01.120 were my cousins in a pretty racist way and these are young kiddos right that probably didn't know
00:06:06.880 the way they were talking was racist and they didn't know that i was related to them because
00:06:10.640 i lived on the opposite side of town when i was really young than the rest of my family so i went
00:06:15.120 to a different elementary school i wasn't arguably on the native side of town so i i wasn't lumped in
00:06:20.480 with that so there was that and then also in my grade three four split class we were talking about
00:06:25.760 ferries um and we were talking about how the united states was making this plan to build a
00:06:32.160 bridge from continental united states to hawaii and i kind of put my hand up and i was like well
00:06:38.080 that doesn't really make any sense like why don't they build us a bridge from campbell river to
00:06:42.000 quadra don't tell quadra i said this um and then they can have our ferry and they can ferry across
00:06:48.160 because me like you know as a young person didn't understand why they needed a bridge and they
00:06:52.080 couldn't use a boat and and my teacher at the time was an exchange teacher from australia
00:06:59.680 she said if you ever run for politics like you you've got my vote and then and then my name from
00:07:04.000 like from birth um you know we're named at 10 moons um and that is how our community affirms
00:07:10.320 that you know we're here to stay in the human world and uh like loosely translates to speaks
00:07:16.800 loud or voices heard so i think there's a lot of things that have just been adding up into this
00:07:21.280 place and and really owning you know where i have a skill set i am not the best beater i am not
00:07:27.360 fantastic at making regalia um i'm learning my language but it's very challenging um i don't
00:07:33.200 know a lot of my family's songs but other people do and and you know this is a space that i've got
00:07:40.320 some talent in i guess to be honest and and i need that space because our people need to be present
00:07:46.000 in these conversations i'm glad that you've said that you have talent in that space because i think
00:07:50.720 often as like you know women and i i'd imagine also especially as a racialized woman that's not
00:07:55.680 something that uh society tells you you can say and it's it's good to hear you say it because
00:08:00.960 you know we should be proud of our accomplishments in those ways um you know i i did want to ask you
00:08:07.040 about uh what was very nearly uh it was almost another incredible accomplishment which would
00:08:15.040 would have been you winning that federal seat
00:08:18.520 in North Island Powell River.
00:08:19.900 And just the heartbreaking loss to Aaron Gunn, of all people.
00:08:25.560 I'm so sorry.
00:08:28.600 For those of you who aren't familiar with Aaron Gunn,
00:08:31.360 he made headlines during the federal election
00:08:35.280 because of his comments about residential schools, which
00:08:39.160 effectively just completely diminished downplayed
00:08:43.900 And it was horrific.
00:08:46.220 Like he said, there was no genocide.
00:08:47.940 Stop lying to people and read a book.
00:08:50.180 Said that Indigenous groups in Ontario
00:08:51.740 asked for residential schools and called them much maligned.
00:08:54.940 So it was, I think it adds another layer of pain to this.
00:08:59.560 And lots of pundits seem to blame strategic voting
00:09:04.240 for his win.
00:09:05.620 I wanted to ask you, what did you learn from
00:09:09.080 not only the campaign itself, but also the end result?
00:09:12.640 Yeah, I mean, going into that, I knew what the possibilities were, right? I knew that there was a chance that if the Liberals polled enough votes, that all it would do is like pave that yellow brick road for Erin.
00:09:28.360 But like did not let that discourage me in any way, shape or form, because it shouldn't. Just because something's going to be hard or near impossible doesn't mean you don't do it.
00:09:36.100 I definitely learned the lack of understanding of our unique political geography in North
00:09:45.040 Island, Pal River, and arguably in a number of ridings across BC, where it doesn't matter
00:09:51.480 what's happening on the East Coast as far as the Prime Minister is concerned for an
00:09:58.280 election.
00:09:59.480 What matters is how your unique political geography sits so that you are informed about
00:10:04.560 the way that you vote.
00:10:05.380 And I think because it was a fear based election, everyone was terrified and they took this any anyone but Polly of approach.
00:10:14.500 It's it freaked people out. And I think the Liberal Party championed on that really hard and made the entire country think that they had to vote for the liberals in order to keep Polly of from leadership.
00:10:26.620 When realistically in North Island, Powell River specifically, that is absolutely not true. The only thing that was going to happen is what did happen is if you vote liberal, you're essentially paving the way for a conservative seat to be created.
00:10:41.480 liberals haven't won here in in decades and decades and decades not even when justin trudeau
00:10:47.100 was here with his fancy hair and his great personality it didn't work it didn't happen
00:10:52.100 because we are blue orange we have been for forever and ever and and i i feel like that
00:10:58.020 was a really hard learning for folks in north island pal river that that last election and
00:11:02.560 something that we just didn't have the educational tools out early enough fast enough broad enough
00:11:07.700 to really solidify to folks that your vote is orange if you want to keep out conservatives
00:11:12.780 your vote is orange in North Island Power River. It is so interesting to me that so often people
00:11:19.920 think that strategic voting just means vote liberal. Like I remember I was living in a
00:11:25.940 riding that had been NDP for a long time in Ottawa Centre at the time. It had been NDP for a while
00:11:31.740 and I was having drinks with some friends on election night and I was chatting with one of
00:11:36.860 them and they said oh yeah I voted strategically in Ottawa Centre so I had to vote Liberal and I
00:11:41.140 was like do you do you know how the math works down yeah we're gonna go through something here
00:11:48.100 and don't be offended yeah so I really think there's like this this weird misunderstanding
00:11:52.400 where people think voting strategically just means people who would otherwise vote NDP voting Liberal
00:11:56.820 and they don't necessarily look at the the actual facts of the history of their writing and and what
00:12:02.760 strategic voting would actually look like in that context. But, you know, I did want to ask you
00:12:07.840 more broadly about, obviously, the NDP suffered a pretty brutal loss in that election. And this
00:12:16.040 was something I asked on my live stream on Tuesday, and a lot of folks in the chat wanted
00:12:20.880 to hear from you guys. How would you make the NDP relevant again? Yeah, I mean, we need a big
00:12:29.800 change up, right? One of the biggest things for me is we need to own our faults. We need to own
00:12:36.700 where we've made mistakes, where we haven't shown up. I think we relied too heavy on what we thought
00:12:42.500 were pre-existing relationships, but we weren't actually honoring those relationships in a good
00:12:47.820 way to realistically expect that vote to come behind us and those assurances with that. So we
00:12:54.640 we need to kind of start start again start fresh accept accept our failures where they were uh
00:13:02.640 listen to what folks need from us and then reinvest in those relationships and they have
00:13:07.520 to be broader than you know the the labor industry so uh you know ndp champions being like the the
00:13:14.000 working class party the party of the people um but a lot of folks don't identify as even being
00:13:20.240 a worker. Like when I hear working class, I think of like, like the mine that my dad worked at. I
00:13:26.580 think about, you know, the logging company that my uncle owns. Like I think about these types of
00:13:31.560 industry, right? Not necessarily like our hairstylists that are, you know, they actually
00:13:36.400 have unions that they belong to. So I think we need language that really represents a lot more
00:13:42.540 Canadians that we can be that inclusive party and going to those spaces and places like touching
00:13:47.840 base with our national pride collectives um across the country visiting our libraries one of our only
00:13:54.160 public spaces left in the country to say hey librarians we see you we got you like like tell
00:13:59.760 us what you need from us at a federal level because we don't do much federally for our our
00:14:04.000 public libraries and and i think we and i think we should those folks are on the front lines of
00:14:08.400 our housing crisis on the front lines of our toxic drug supply crisis and and we don't support them
00:14:13.200 to do that work that they they never signed up for either i mean they're librarians like they
00:14:17.360 They don't want to be, you know, witnessing some of the really hardest parts of lives of folks.
00:14:22.260 Like they want to honor the, you know, the Dewey Decimal System.
00:14:26.000 And as they, as they should.
00:14:28.140 Yeah.
00:14:29.520 Get librarians back to the Dewey Decimal System, you know, by providing adequate social supports and rectifying root causes of poverty and addiction.
00:14:38.040 Imagine the social media campaign around that.
00:14:39.720 Yeah.
00:14:40.100 I feel like I need to workshop the way I worded it.
00:14:43.100 Yeah, exactly.
00:14:44.300 Oh, dare you say that.
00:14:45.300 You know, speaking of, you know, policies and social programs and all that, you know, I was looking at what you highlighted on your website here about as your key priorities.
00:14:59.140 And one thing I noticed about it, that is something that I hear the pundit class and like the panelists on various political analysts and analysis shows, yada, yada.
00:15:13.480 they always come back with the same criticism and I heard them levy this at Jagmeet Singh a lot
00:15:19.320 during the election too um and I don't necessarily fully buy it although as someone living in Quebec
00:15:25.480 I also think that that's a very dramatic thing to say that could uh really piss some people off
00:15:31.220 but a lot of the stuff that you define as key priorities will get you that classic pushback of
00:15:37.740 you know those are provincial responsibilities health care education housing to a degree um
00:15:43.360 How do you address these key priorities of yours without pissing off the provinces by stepping on their toes, especially in Quebec?
00:15:55.220 Yeah, so I think, I mean, that's another key area where we have a ton of nation building to do.
00:16:01.060 We arguably have a giant trench between the federal NDP party and the provincial NDP parties.
00:16:08.180 And we need to fix that. We need to bridge that.
00:16:10.760 And and we need to help is the way I see it. We sign checks over to the provinces all the time, yet we we don't really help in that space.
00:16:21.720 We chuck money at a problem, but we're not necessarily moving the types of policies and legislation that we need to to actually allow our provinces to really get some stuff done.
00:16:32.380 And especially in health care. I mean, our federal health transfers, in my opinion, are not nearly enough to offer our health care industry, our provinces a chance at having a really solid impact in our health care system.
00:16:48.500 I mean, we just went through a pandemic. We are on like over a decade of toxic drug supply crisis
00:16:57.200 in BC. It's these these challenges are monumental. And did we rise to the occasion and like
00:17:05.960 permanently adjust funding to provinces? No. We sent, you know, a bunch of grants. We chucked
00:17:11.640 money at a problem saying fix it, knowing that the repercussions of the pandemic are still alive
00:17:17.200 and well. We have umpteen different flus now that everyone's getting. There's huge repercussions
00:17:22.860 and our toxic drug supply is alive and well. So none of these things have changed yet the funding
00:17:29.120 has not kept up to even give our provinces a fair shot. So I don't view it as stepping on toes but
00:17:34.600 it's also how you frame it right. We should be going to our provinces saying where are like your
00:17:39.900 big gaps, where are we in the way and how do we move out of the way to help you in that. So that's
00:17:46.260 i view that work not necessarily kind of the big hammer coming down saying do better with less like
00:17:51.700 i i don't think that's how we get anywhere we really we really need to help even like yesterday's
00:17:56.980 announcement breaking down inter-provincial barriers for for purchasing a number of different
00:18:02.260 goods across the country fantastic but we missed food we missed food like when all of our
00:18:11.540 conversations and the bickering that's happening in the house of commons right now about the the
00:18:16.100 of food costs like maybe that should have been the number one before you know being able to purchase
00:18:21.700 that uh hyundai from across the border you know like so we need to set our priorities so that they
00:18:27.940 match with the provinces because the provinces are doing the work they are doing they're the
00:18:32.580 wheels of the vehicle you mean i can't eat lng that's wild i thought no way it's great right
00:18:40.820 it's so great it'll just coat the entire inside of your body and you'll never i hear it i hear
00:18:46.260 it's really good for you like uh carbon neutral or whatever same as calorie neutral definitely
00:18:51.940 not carbon neutral but um so tenille i did have one last question for you before i turn to the
00:18:58.900 audience and uh folks in the chat if you guys have some questions for tenille i'm gonna uh
00:19:03.940 leave about seven minutes to for you guys at the end here um so feel free to drop those in the chat
00:19:10.660 now. But Tenille, my last question for you is, I know you mentioned earlier, you know, on the
00:19:16.620 playground, hearing some kids say racist stuff about your cousins. And I just want you to picture
00:19:23.800 that little girl that you were. And she's standing in front of you. And you just became NDP leader.
00:19:33.720 And I want to ask you, what do you see in the eyes of that young Indigenous girl when she looks at
00:19:40.380 you and what would you say to her about it? I would say, take me to them. We're going to go
00:19:47.260 have a conversation and we're going to set some stuff straight. Um, yeah, I, I hope that young
00:19:54.000 indigenous people feel super empowered when us like older folks or whoever step into these
00:20:00.080 positions because arguably this race was not built or structured for someone like me. It's not built
00:20:08.240 for your actual average working Canadian it's not built for someone that's coming from a rural
00:20:13.740 riding I'm arguably a nobody from from the middle of nowhere on the opposite side of the country
00:20:18.340 of Ottawa there's there's a lot of inequities that are that are in the leadership race itself and
00:20:24.760 and I believe as a party we can we can do better in that we can structure races where we are
00:20:29.560 inclusive where we are lifting up people from rural areas that that that want to put their
00:20:33.920 voice forward and feel they have the skills necessary to do the work that our party needs
00:20:37.480 to do, especially right now where I feel like we need a nation builder. Arguably, I mean,
00:20:44.600 wouldn't it be amazing if we won the prime minister spot next election, but arguably we
00:20:50.460 have epic nation building to do before we do that. And I really feel that that's where my
00:20:53.980 skillset is as a naturally inclusive, like collaborative person. So yeah, I think standing
00:20:59.520 with our kiddos in that and showing them like how to have those strong conversations because racism
00:21:05.480 is not going away um we we want to tackle it head on 100 um as a mother of two status indians um
00:21:14.900 i'm very conscious of what the world's going to look like for them what it looks like right now
00:21:19.640 and where they're going to have to have hard conversations because they're also white passing
00:21:22.760 so they don't look they don't look native um and that carries its its own type of discrimination
00:21:28.180 that that comes with it when you're when you're not you're not native enough you're not brown
00:21:33.180 enough but then you're also not white enough at this at the same time so it yeah there's there's
00:21:39.340 lots of work to do and i hope that those tiny kiddos feel that like i'm approachable and and
00:21:45.820 that i'm willing to help in any of those really hard conversations that's great um so we did get
00:21:52.540 a few questions coming in in the chat uh so the first one actually um you know you you just talked
00:21:59.740 about inclusion and obviously there is a really big problem right now in Alberta um and it's
00:22:07.480 happening in other provinces too uh Ninja Cupcake wants to know uh what would Tenille's plan be
00:22:15.220 to tackle provinces like Alberta slashing the hell out of our civil rights like trans rights
00:22:20.380 workers rights access to free health care um I'll just leave you to it do you have uh yeah I mean
00:22:26.180 first like shout out it's trans day of remembrance today so shout out there please um hug your people
00:22:33.060 give them some love today okay um i think alberta is a prime example of a province we need to spend
00:22:38.820 a whole lot more time in it's one of those provinces that we've written off numerous
00:22:43.780 ridings in alberta as being unattainable we can't go there we're never gonna win so we'll have a
00:22:49.940 paper candidate and and call it a day we have some amazing human beings like i shout out calgary i
00:22:58.020 see you i know you're there like there's some great humans um peace river like all you guys
00:23:04.420 like there's so many rural ridings that are amazing in alberta and and i think we need to be
00:23:09.380 a lot present there because to change these big things we have to win right we need to win we
00:23:14.020 have to be strategic about it and we have to earn every single vote you can't just expect people to
00:23:19.220 vote for you because maybe you said the right thing that one time you got to show face you got
00:23:23.860 to show up and build those those networks to support each other because that's how we're going
00:23:28.260 to be able to come come up against these huge challenges and and healthcare is one that i i
00:23:34.100 know we need to fund better but we also need our uh canadian health act and the agreements that we
00:23:40.500 have in place with provinces for what's going to happen for those money to be fairly robust
00:23:44.420 right just sending a whole chunk of money with no kind of a responsibility attached to it outside
00:23:50.020 of provide health care isn't enough we need specifics so that we can create accountability
00:23:54.500 in those agreements so we have something to not only hold our provinces against but collect data
00:24:00.020 on like where is that stuff going well how is it funded does it need more funding to actually hit
00:24:04.180 the dot we need to be doing that type of work so that so that we're you know not totally reining
00:24:10.500 in and controlling everything the provinces are doing but making sure there's a level of
00:24:14.500 accountability for your tax dollars and that they're adequately funded to do the complex
00:24:19.780 and specialized work that we're asking them to do yeah so we have another question here that
00:24:25.540 i think is a good one which is how will you encourage the strategic voters to support the ndp
00:24:32.500 yeah so this comes down to education and and i would love us and this is my whole thing too is
00:24:39.140 is like every day, not just election day, showing up, showing up, showing up all the time. We're
00:24:43.480 present everywhere all year long. It doesn't matter if it's election year or not. We need
00:24:48.020 our candidates out early. We need those education pieces that shows folks what their political
00:24:54.560 geography looks like in each of their ridings. Because even in the last election, talking to
00:24:59.800 folks that were in different areas of the country, I urged them to talk to their EDAs,
00:25:04.720 pull up their voting history and figure out how their riding sits because if it is truly like
00:25:10.720 anyone but polyev like sometimes that does mean that the liberals are going to win in a riding
00:25:15.940 that's going to keep a conservative seat out and that's a tough pill to swallow that's you know
00:25:20.800 that's that's not you know all ndp all day long every single time but we have to be conscious of
00:25:26.860 this stuff this is a part of the strategy that builds better coalitions that builds better
00:25:31.240 relationships that can get you to that that um majority seat in in the house of commons but we
00:25:39.320 have to be smart of it and we have to be out there nice and early we i know there's a lot of work
00:25:44.120 happening right now within the ndp to do that that research um into how the last election went and
00:25:50.600 bringing that forward but we need that information to get to every single member we need everyone to
00:25:55.880 understand what happened in their riding and we can be doing all that work right now arguably we
00:26:00.120 should have started as soon as possible resourcing EDAs to be able to do that educational piece out
00:26:06.360 to their membership to to highlight um that history within each riding because that's the
00:26:11.880 only way to do it there's there's no central strategic one-liner that's going to fit across
00:26:18.360 the country it has to be EDA by EDA yeah well Tenille I wish there's more questions in the chat
00:26:25.640 and I wish I could ask them, but I want to make sure we have time to do everything we have planned
00:26:31.080 for today's episode. So I'll have to wrap it up there. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sure you can follow
00:26:36.000 Tennille on socials and ask her these questions directly yourself. So Tennille, I'll give you the
00:26:41.000 chance if you'd like to just tell people where they can keep up with you and how to support you
00:26:46.100 if they liked what they heard today. Yeah, totally. So I'm on almost every social media
00:26:51.220 platform that's reasonable i am not on x just to put that out there um i'm on mastodon if anyone
00:26:57.860 knows what mastodon is or you want to know check it out um so yeah google me any social media
00:27:03.220 platform that suits your abilities your needs the way you communicate find me on it uh shoot me an
00:27:08.100 email shoot me a message on on facebook i do try to be as responsive as possible instagram's another
00:27:13.700 good one you can message me on there and i try to get back to people in a in a fairly timely way
00:27:18.580 because i want to personally answer your questions i want to be the person that you're hearing from
00:27:22.580 um and i'd be more than happy to do that and then obviously if you ever get a chance to maybe hit
00:27:27.460 the donate button we're fundraising like crazy right now because we want to stay on that ballot
00:27:31.860 and the price tag is hefty so please anything you can five bucks 20 bucks the max at 1750 if
00:27:39.220 you're really feeling it uh really great really really appreciate it and that's you can find that
00:27:43.700 that on my website at Tenille.ca. Great. Thank you so much, Tenille. And Tenille will be back
00:27:49.700 in about half an hour after we chat with our next guest. So thank you, Tenille. I'm going to
00:27:55.900 pull you off screen now. So that was Tenille Johnston. But now it's time to turn to our
00:28:04.420 other leadership hopeful today. As I already mentioned, Tony is a farmer who is seeking to
00:28:10.720 merge the NDP and the Greens to mitigate vote splitting, which we just talked about a lot. So
00:28:16.820 I think we're going to continue having a really good conversation about that. Tony also, like
00:28:21.900 many Canadians, would like to see electoral reform in our country. On top of that, he's running on
00:28:29.360 four R's, representation, regeneration, redesign, and redistribution. He's also talking about four
00:28:39.500 Ds, but I'm going to let him tell you about those. Tony says that his approach prioritizes
00:28:45.800 cooperation over division, renewable energy over resource depletion, and fairness over unchecked
00:28:52.520 inequality. So with that, Tony, welcome to Bubble Pop. Well, thank you, Rachel. And I should correct,
00:29:00.060 I made the mistake of doing a wordplay when I first announced it talking about the green
00:29:05.180 democratic progressives and talking about a merger. So we'd have GDP as the initial because
00:29:13.660 the economists love GDP, which ignores the main half of the economy, which is the unwaged part,
00:29:20.760 which is mother nature and our communities and families. So that was sort of a joke.
00:29:25.260 We don't have time to go through the process of trying to merge parties. But what we do need to
00:29:31.020 do is figure out how people who are concerned about the environment and concerned about
00:29:36.840 people in their community work together so we don't split the vote.
00:29:41.000 And that's my first R, representation, because, you know, the first past the post system has
00:29:47.460 been in place since confederation when only rich men had the vote.
00:29:53.100 And after the first world war, when women and ordinary working people got the vote,
00:29:57.660 They didn't change the system, so it has continued to keep the 99% from being fairly and adequately
00:30:04.420 represented in Parliament.
00:30:06.200 And until we change that, we're never going to get on to my regeneration, redistribution,
00:30:12.800 and redesign ours, or all the good things that Tennille was talking about.
00:30:16.480 So we've got to face up to that, and the whole thing about strategic voting is the political
00:30:22.320 parties that believe that the environment and people are important need to behave strategically
00:30:28.160 by talking way before an election and say, well, what can we agree on? We can disagree about stuff
00:30:36.000 and that's fine. Any relationship, you're likely to disagree on some things. But what do we agree
00:30:40.460 on? And do we agree that we got to close tax loopholes? Do we agree that a progressive wealth
00:30:46.460 tax would make sense? What do we agree on? What do we agree on about the environment? What do we
00:30:51.940 agree about how we really build a nation by investing in our communities across Canada,
00:30:58.420 and then put together a program, and then only run one candidate for that program in
00:31:03.520 each riding. So people know what the strategic vote is in their riding if they're concerned
00:31:07.740 about the environment and concerned about building a Canada that works for people. Don't
00:31:12.000 leave strategic voting up for them to try and figure out which of these people is under
00:31:18.120 the right where's the p under the shell no let's figure that out and make sure it's really clear
00:31:23.400 to them that's the strategic thing that the the parties and the leaders of the parties need to do
00:31:28.600 so that's my first star but i'll let you go back to you because i know that's fine yeah if you'd
00:31:35.240 like to keep explaining your r's because i was going to ask you about what sets you apart from
00:31:39.880 the other leadership candidates and it sounds like that's part of it well it's certainly part of it
00:31:44.920 I mean, I think one of the things that sets me apart is I'm a few years older than most of the
00:31:49.320 candidates. So you put Tennille and me together, we'd make a great team. But I bring 45 years of
00:31:57.000 experience to this process. I've run five times federally, twice provincially. I was a school
00:32:02.360 board trustee for three terms, and I served as the executive assistant to the minister of agriculture.
00:32:08.200 And I got involved in politics, not because I wanted to be a politician, because I like being
00:32:14.120 a farmer but i got involved in politics during the high interest rate and energy crisis of the 1970s
00:32:22.360 energy prices quadrupled and then they doubled again during that decade of the 70s
00:32:27.640 and our brilliant leaders at the time and the conservative and liberal parties and
00:32:31.720 their advisors decided that the way you fight inflation caused by energy price escalation
00:32:38.120 which of course creates a huge inflationary wave across the economy because so everything depends
00:32:43.960 to some extent on energy they fought it with high interest rates which just made the waves higher
00:32:51.240 because for homeowners and farmers and small businesses now here was one more increased
00:32:57.640 expense to their lives in operation so what they really did and what really made was clear to me
00:33:04.120 is they created an excuse for creating a system that transferred wealth from farmers and small
00:33:09.480 businesses and homeowners to the 1%, to the rich who already were the bankers and had big deposits
00:33:15.080 in the banks. And it just was a crooked scheme. And it still is the way we've got our economy
00:33:20.760 structured and our tax system structured. But Ed Broadbent was the person who made sense to me.
00:33:25.480 So I got involved in politics because I wanted to change the way we treated the planet
00:33:30.600 and how we treated each other. So I bring that longstanding conviction for well over 50 years
00:33:37.720 because I felt that way before, but I really got politicized for the 1980 federal election.
00:33:47.560 Representation is first because until we deal with that first-past-the-post system and actually
00:33:52.760 get a proportional system in place, we have to figure out how to work together
00:33:56.760 when those are the rules we're playing with. But then regeneration because, you know,
00:34:02.440 this i'll get into the deep part our our leadership has been delusional for the last 45 years
00:34:09.720 we knew i took an environmental studies degree at waterloo while i was farming
00:34:13.800 and we knew in the 70s we'd seen photographs of the planet taken from the apollo missions right
00:34:20.760 we knew it's this little space in space with a little atmosphere and a living film of people
00:34:27.560 plants, animals on the surface. And you can't keep expanding energy and resource consumption
00:34:33.520 in that. And you can't keep dumping into that atmosphere without serious consequences. But
00:34:39.220 for the last 45 years, we've had a capitalist, corporate, consumerist ideology that tells us
00:34:46.320 that we've got to keep growing. And we've got to keep growing what really is a cancer on the
00:34:52.380 planet now in terms of how our economy works. And as a farmer, I see the shredding of the
00:34:58.380 life support system that we have. When I was married 50 years ago in our orchard, it was just
00:35:04.160 with the bees in the full blooms. And this year, 50 years on our anniversary date, I went out into
00:35:11.040 our orchard and it was silent. And I saw an insect there, an insect there, an insect there.
00:35:16.260 And, you know, insects are a very important part of the food web of life. And, you know, we are moving into a place where if we don't start, well, if we don't stop doing the damage and start healing the damage, we are not creating a space that's going to be good for my kids and grandkids.
00:35:37.780 So that's why regeneration is second. We've really got to do this. And I think we can do it because what gives me hope is what I hear from people across the country in communities, nature clubs, pollution cleanup groups, all sorts of different things, people naturalizing their yards.
00:35:57.880 that people want to do something but they need support and leadership to do that and that would
00:36:03.000 be nation building because you could provide that support across the country people figuring out how
00:36:07.240 to change the transportation so that they create maybe a municipal uber so regeneration we got to
00:36:13.400 get on it but then the redistribution part you know our economy has been structured by people
00:36:19.160 who believe that you want to accumulate capital for it to work well well they've done a really
00:36:23.320 good job man when i got involved in the 80s we were talking about millionaires now we're talking
00:36:29.160 about multi billionaires and there's a big difference between a million and a billion
00:36:33.960 rachel because if i told you you had a million seconds to live you'd have 11 days but if i told
00:36:41.000 you you had a billion seconds to live you'd have 31 years so it's just you know when you write it
00:36:48.040 it's an m or a b or three zeros but you know when it's 31 years to 11 days that gives you a sense
00:36:54.360 of how out of proportion really obscenely out of proportion things have gotten so we need you know
00:37:00.360 we need a wealth tax uh we need a closing loopholes and we need to recognize that the rich
00:37:08.440 need to pay for the services they get because they'll use airports uh seaports the road system
00:37:14.600 the legal system, all that a lot more than a homeless person on the streets in Ottawa,
00:37:19.320 which unfortunately I got to see when I was at the Canadian Labor Congress Forum.
00:37:24.040 And so finally, the fourth R is redesign, because we need to work with people across Canada on how
00:37:31.240 we redesign our communities and our activities so that we meet our basic needs while using a lot
00:37:37.320 less energy and a lot fewer resources and figure out how to take what we have and share it in a
00:37:43.400 way that benefits and builds our communities in a truly regenerative and long-term healthy
00:37:49.240 sustainable manner. So that's where my 4Rs come from. These are the delusional thinking,
00:37:55.400 the denialist behavior that they are engaged in which is saying, well, we can just keep on this
00:37:59.400 track. Stability and growth, stability and growth. No, I do not want to stabilize a system that has
00:38:05.160 created this kind of inequity in society in terms of wealth. And the people who produce the wealth
00:38:11.080 aren't getting to share in it and that also is taking us down the track growing us into
00:38:16.920 ecological collapse so you know we can't keep accepting their denial of reality and then we
00:38:24.680 certainly got to stop the destructive choices i mean when i when i see carney talk at nation
00:38:29.320 building about liquid liquefied natural gas pipelines large non-modular nuclear reactors
00:38:36.360 and then more mining and more mineral extraction and then his second tier is uh is carbon capture
00:38:44.520 by the people who brought you carbon release um what a bunch of um as a farmer we can take
00:38:52.520 carbon dioxide out of the air through photosynthesis and growing plants if we invest in
00:38:57.960 helping farmers do stuff they already you know know how to do and expand the um
00:39:04.360 carbon capturing things there are benefits to farmers in terms of soil quality
00:39:09.240 and better better crop growth and production there's benefits in terms of water retention
00:39:15.960 because lands more porous when it has higher carbon or higher organic matter in it which
00:39:21.160 reduces the risk of flooding downstream and from the farmer's perspective if you get a big rain
00:39:26.680 it also means you hold on to it so if then you then followed by a drought there are win-win
00:39:31.400 solutions out there but our current leadership are not interested in them because they don't
00:39:36.200 make money for the corporate elite and so that's something we've got to address and understand
00:39:41.640 i'll slow down there for a minute no no that was fantastic i think the whole point of these
00:39:47.640 interviews is to give people an intro into who you and teneal are so uh you know feel free to
00:39:53.480 to go on as long as you want i uh yeah well from i've been a holistic management certified
00:40:00.360 educator for about the last 15 years but we took our first holistic management course
00:40:05.560 back in the mid 90s and it was transformational for our farm which is why i became an educator
00:40:10.840 some years later um but the idea of holistic management was that you know things there are
00:40:17.800 complex things and there are complicated things my tractor's complicated the airplane's complicated
00:40:23.080 but they they have linear relationships in a lot of the ways they connect a ranch a farm a family
00:40:29.320 a country those are complex there's so many different things going on in them so you need
00:40:35.480 management systems that let you manage complex systems and adapt so that you keep going toward
00:40:42.600 a goal rather than assuming well we made the plan and now we just stick to it um so
00:40:49.320 when i first was thinking about running i asked the people on my uh email contact list
00:40:56.120 whether they thought it was a good idea whether they thought these concerns were worth
00:40:59.960 putting at a national leadership process and got pretty good response on it but i also asked them
00:41:05.800 what would you want for the quality of life in canada what would you hope for the future vision
00:41:10.760 and what are some of the things you think we need to do to make that happen and i created what is a
00:41:16.840 holistic goal for canada and i'd like to to read it um to you because the one of the real values
00:41:22.600 of a holistic goal is by stating quality of life and vision it gives you something to aim for and
00:41:28.440 i think that the quality of life goals here in in this holistic goal for canada would be something
00:41:34.600 that could unify people because i believe we have to reach out well beyond the membership of the ndvp
00:41:41.160 or the membership of the ndp and the green party we need to build a green progressive coalition
00:41:46.600 of people who are concerned about the planet and they are concerned about their community
00:41:51.320 and their family and want to figure out how we make something that works for both of those and
00:41:56.840 so i i think we have to reach out to the over 50 of people who've given up on voting and i agree
00:42:02.760 with teneal we have to have people understand and i don't know if you can see my cake chart in the
00:42:07.000 back here but it's a cake chart designed by a woman named hazel henderson who said i'm tired
00:42:12.760 of power charts i'm an economist but i'm tired of power charts i want a cake chart and their cake
00:42:17.800 chart has nature at the bottom the family and community is the next layer the public sector
00:42:23.160 and then the private sector and she said the really important thing to remember about a layer
00:42:28.200 cake is every layer depends on all the layers below it and you know part of the problem from
00:42:34.360 our economist point of view is these two layers don't show up in gdp because they're the unmonetized
00:42:40.120 stuff so if we only use gdp as a measure of how well we're doing and what we should be doing
00:42:47.000 we are neglecting the workers who are the unwaged workers in the family and community layer,
00:42:52.920 which are somebody coaching the ball team or the hockey team, mom looking after the kids at home,
00:42:58.600 somebody with a partner who has a disability and they're having to do care for. That whole layer
00:43:05.640 is critical work for a society to succeed. And we need to make sure that when we talk about workers,
00:43:11.880 the 99% understand that they're all part of what we're talking about with workers.
00:43:17.560 And then when you get to the next layers, there's waged workers that are unionized,
00:43:23.000 and there are wage workers that are not. And we need to be sure that people understand
00:43:27.240 their people we're talking about, both in the public sector and the private sector.
00:43:31.960 But it's the top three layers of that cake that are the people that I think we need to
00:43:37.400 be working with and working for to create a green progressive movement.
00:43:40.840 and so we need to reach out to the people who've stopped voting but we also need to reach out to
00:43:45.400 the disillusioned liberals and the concerned conservatives who are starting to understand
00:43:51.080 that the people who actually run their party and make the decisions are not them they are the one
00:43:57.160 percent in canada and they've been doing it since confederation and before confederation
00:44:01.960 that's why we have to solve the issue of first past the post but it's also if we're going to
00:44:05.960 get a country that works for canadians the 99 have to be represented fairly around the table
00:44:13.400 and you know our electoral system is rigged so let me let me read you the holistic goal
00:44:18.440 for canada and then um that so quality of life as a country we meet the basic needs for water
00:44:25.800 food shelter clothing health care and education for every canadian resident everyone has access
00:44:33.640 to fresh air clean water and healthy green space everyone has time and energy for themselves their
00:44:40.440 families their friends their occupation everyone has an opportunity to contribute and be involved
00:44:46.680 in their community so that's the quality of life people have and this is a goal i know we're not
00:44:51.640 there now and we'll never get there unless we get control of the decisions that governments make to
00:44:58.280 help us get there but that's the quality of life the vision is canada is a compare a caring
00:45:04.920 compassionate country both to its residents at home and the broader world community we make
00:45:11.240 decisions carefully considering their impact on the planet the people and the economy the earth
00:45:17.800 is healing communities are thriving and conflict at home and abroad is decreasing now how many
00:45:24.440 people don't think that would be a nice idea. That's the vision that hopefully people can
00:45:29.880 come together behind and then say, okay, how do we get there? And then in the holistic goal,
00:45:36.120 there's three parts. And the third part is what are the systems and behaviors you have to do
00:45:41.000 and work on to make this real? And that is we develop mechanisms for participatory democracy
00:45:48.440 and proportional representation so that all voices can contribute to discussions and decisions
00:45:54.440 from the local to the national level we support locally designed projects to enhance local well
00:46:00.680 being and resilience we prioritize stable regenerative food production with adequate
00:46:06.440 local processing and distribution to meet domestic needs before focusing on exports
00:46:12.680 we work with provinces municipalities housing cooperatives and housing non-profits to build
00:46:18.520 affordable and inclusive ecological housing we work with provinces and municipalities to address
00:46:25.000 and discourage real estate speculation and profiteering we ensure that one full-time job
00:46:31.080 can cover the basic cost of living for a family using a living wage supported by a fair tax system
00:46:37.480 and guaranteed annual income we support non-violent communication and conflict conflict resolution
00:46:44.760 from the individual to the national and international level and once you have your
00:46:50.440 holistic goal then every time you're making a decision passing a law developing a program
00:46:58.520 exploring a policy you test it against that decision that goal and say is this going to
00:47:04.440 take us toward it and it worked wonders in terms of our farm and family when we did that and it's
00:47:11.800 been used at municipal levels in community organizations as well as on farms and ranches
00:47:18.440 and so you know that's what i would say is you know if if this is something that sounds good
00:47:24.280 no you know it's just pie in the sky and no friggin government ever delivers what it says
00:47:28.920 it's going to do well people people can feel that way because that's the way the damn system's
00:47:34.200 working and will continue to work as long as we leave the power in the hands of the one percent
00:47:39.880 but we can change that if we create a green progressive movement for all the people who do
00:47:46.840 want something that will work for their families and work for their community and work for the
00:47:52.120 planet and that that to me is why i'm in this race because i mean after the 2025 elections
00:47:59.480 in ontario and federally i felt i could either lie down in despair or get on with stuff but
00:48:06.360 But how much time do we have left in this part of the thing, Rachel?
00:48:11.360 Well, I was going to probably ask you a quick final question
00:48:15.060 while I give the audience a chance to ask some stuff and put it in the chat.
00:48:20.080 So the one thing that I, and I guess I'll go ahead with that,
00:48:25.340 if that's all right with you, time-wise.
00:48:28.220 By being a typical politician, I may or may not answer it
00:48:30.880 because there's something I need to say.
00:48:32.880 Okay, well, that's exciting.
00:48:34.680 So I just quickly wanted to ask you about, you know, and maybe this is me being the it's never going to happen person you were referring to.
00:48:45.400 But, you know, that's sometimes the foil that the journalist plays. Right.
00:48:49.100 And I did want to ask you, I mean, we saw Justin Trudeau.
00:48:53.080 He promised electoral reform and, you know, broke his promise on that regard.
00:49:00.000 And I think that was in large part also because of the fact that he was so wedded to the idea of a ranked ballot rather than actually listening to what experts and what the outcome of the study was when they studied the question.
00:49:14.420 But, you know, that was the closest that we've gotten on a federal level to achieving electoral reform.
00:49:19.440 And I wanted to ask you both sort of how you would suggest we approach this differently to actually achieve it and also how you would go about convincing people to join this sort of green progressive movement if they feel a lot of loyalty to the sort of more tribal party politics that exists now.
00:49:38.700 Well, as I say, I think if we build a strong enough green progressive movement that doesn't
00:49:47.280 run competing candidates in ridings, we could get there in the next election.
00:49:52.660 And with the way things are going in terms of both the environment, I see ecological
00:49:56.860 collapse from a farmer's viewpoint on the ground level, and I see social collapse at
00:50:03.200 the news feed level.
00:50:06.300 we are not headed to good places. And if people are concerned about that, then we need to give
00:50:11.440 them a clear option. And if I'm the prime minister, after the next election, the first
00:50:18.420 thing I will be doing is bringing in a citizens assembly, take it out of the hands of the
00:50:22.780 politicians, a citizens assembly on electoral reform that would provide, we would use in the
00:50:29.240 next two election cycles. So people actually got to experience how it would work. The other thing
00:50:34.620 I would bring in next would be a citizens assembly on a fair, the principles of a fair
00:50:40.980 tax system so we can really look at how we redesign our system. But I also want to talk
00:50:45.400 about electoral systems because the NDP leadership have created, as Tennille alluded to, a very
00:50:53.140 difficult set of rules and very short timeline for somebody who didn't already have a national
00:51:00.040 social media following to get out there and get their views known. And I want to make an
00:51:05.500 announcement right now. I talked to Tennille last night to see how things were going and
00:51:10.000 it's pretty tight for them because we have to get another 33,000 of donations because the party's
00:51:16.280 taking 25% of each donation to get the 25,000 that we need by November 30th. Well, I believe
00:51:24.280 in cooperation and collaboration and the need to deal with screwed up electoral systems.
00:51:30.000 And the NDP system for this election was not designed to make it easy for somebody like
00:51:35.160 Tennille or me to get well known in a time frame where we could raise the money. And they're asking
00:51:39.920 for three quarters of the money in a year when New Democrats already donated federally for a
00:51:45.680 federal election. I mean, they know how this system works. They could have split it over two
00:51:50.780 years, but they've got one quarter in 2026, three quarters now. So money is really hard for people,
00:51:57.380 campaigns like mine and Tennille's to raise. So I want to tell your listeners, do not donate to
00:52:03.740 the Tony McQuail campaign now. Donate to the Tennille Johnston campaign. We are going to stop
00:52:09.320 fundraising. We have a wonderful crew of people who've come to this. This is not denying or
00:52:16.620 trying to reduce what we've done and what we've accomplished so far. But I don't want
00:52:23.460 both of us to try and raise money and in effect squeeze both of us out of the race. So in
00:52:30.200 the interest of cooperation and collaboration and dealing with awkward electoral systems,
00:52:37.880 we're going to walk our talk and we're going to say we're not fundraising until Tennille
00:52:42.920 has the $25,000. She needs to be in the race and pay it by November 30th. And we trust that her
00:52:50.860 campaign will let us know when they do, and then we can start fundraising again. But if one of us
00:52:56.840 has to go, it's me. But we will be in Montreal, and we will be campaigning as hard as we can.
00:53:05.040 And if I have to drop out, I may have to keep going as an unofficial candidate if our team
00:53:10.020 wants to keep pushing the ideas and and things that we feel we needed to bring and wanted to
00:53:15.620 bring to this campaign and we will be sending out an email later today to all the NDP membership
00:53:21.700 with a button that they can go to and donate to Tennille's campaign saying um you know this
00:53:27.620 is the reality you know the breach said it back in may and if you if you know the breach media
00:53:33.300 system look up what they said about a rigged NDP leadership race and how how it was going to be
00:53:38.980 designed to not make it easy for not star candidates um i'm not a star candidate i'm just
00:53:44.740 a farmer from ontario um with no social media following until now because of all the young
00:53:51.220 people who've come to the campaign thank you know wonderful wonderful folks working on the campaign
00:53:55.780 but but that's as a as a holistic management farmer i practice planned adaptive grazing so
00:54:04.660 that if the grass isn't growing i have to change the plan and so right now i'm trying to be a
00:54:09.700 holistic management politician practicing adaptive political campaigning and so friends if you liked
00:54:18.180 what teneal had to say and you liked what i had to say send donations to teneal until she gets to
00:54:23.700 the point where she makes her payment uh back to the party on november 30th and and then if you've
00:54:29.140 got anything left i'd be our campaign would love to see it wow that is i i have to pull teniel up
00:54:36.020 to get her reaction because that is an incredibly uh generous and and huge move in this leadership
00:54:42.500 race so teniel i mean how did you feel hearing that i mean it's pretty overwhelming yeah it's
00:54:50.260 pretty overwhelming i mean it's not now i now i need to not cry tony um when human beings can
00:55:00.420 be human beings and and live values that we talk about all the time it's pretty inspirational
00:55:07.780 like for tony to recognize that and to to not just say it but actually like
00:55:14.980 allow it to take a form of action is pretty inspirational. And I, yeah, I mean, I can't
00:55:23.080 really say thank you enough. And I just really hope people can witness that. Yeah, it's big.
00:55:30.660 It's really, really, really, really big. Well, Daniil, I would love to see any of our
00:55:36.060 leadership candidates. I think anyone would do a better job as prime minister than what we've got
00:55:41.380 place now in terms of the issues that I think are critical for our survival. But the other thing I
00:55:47.140 want to say is that some of those other leadership candidates helped us out when we were short of
00:55:52.340 signatures for the nomination papers. And I want to say thank you. That's what a collegial,
00:55:59.300 cooperative, political movement can do for each other. We've got to pick each other up.
00:56:05.940 and we've got to pick each other up as a community as canada and and we've got to stop
00:56:13.780 creating and that's what first past the post does is create a political system
00:56:17.860 where you can get advantage you know two or three percent change going from 38 to 40
00:56:23.940 can now give you a hundred percent control of the parliament because that just leads to the kind of
00:56:28.420 pitbull politics that is so corrosive and so destructive to society and we've got to let go
00:56:34.660 with that. We've got to get rid of it. But until the rules are changed, we've got to figure out
00:56:39.600 how to adapt and make the system work for the 99%. And, you know, I would be delighted to see
00:56:46.880 you there. I'd be delighted for you to raise $25,000 tomorrow and say, go back to helping
00:56:52.120 Tony get on the podium. But if it doesn't happen, I'm delighted that as long as you're still there
00:56:59.840 and we haven't pulled money so much
00:57:03.400 that we neither one make it.
00:57:04.960 So I'm with you, friend.
00:57:07.760 I appreciate that.
00:57:10.320 Wow.
00:57:10.920 Well, thank you so much for doing this in a space
00:57:15.040 where we can all kind of share in this really powerful moment
00:57:17.600 that was just incredible to watch.
00:57:19.540 It's not the kind of moment you see in politics very often.
00:57:21.740 So Tony, out of curiosity,
00:57:24.160 what made you want to do this?
00:57:27.360 and particularly with respect to Tennille specifically to help her candidacy in this way?
00:57:32.880 Well, my sense is that Abby Lewis is probably not going to have a big fundraising problem.
00:57:38.320 I hope Heather doesn't have one, but she's already been an MP. She's got connections across.
00:57:44.240 Rob, I assume, has pretty good union connections. I didn't call him to check on that,
00:57:50.560 but I assume he's got some people who can donate close to the upper limit that you're allowed to
00:57:55.840 donate. But Tennille and I are coming from this from a place of relatively national ignorance
00:58:01.920 about who we are and what we offer. And we've had to build a campaign that then became a national
00:58:08.720 campaign in a very, very short period of time with three very high financial hurdles. I mean,
00:58:14.800 if the party had just taken the inflation rate to what the last leadership was,
00:58:21.040 this wouldn't be a problem for me or Tennille because it would have been at $38,000.
00:58:25.840 for the whole campaign. Not $100,000, but $133,000 of donation because the party is taking 25% of
00:58:34.160 each donation. So my sense was that, and the reality was we got the nomination signatures
00:58:41.760 and I got wonderful support from people in Huron-Bruce who've already worked with me for
00:58:46.940 the last 45 years and know me. In fact, we're going to have to send some money back because
00:58:50.940 one of our seniors has donated twice and they've over overdone the limit right um and it just came
00:58:57.980 in yesterday so we got to figure out how to send money back to them but but we didn't i didn't have
00:59:04.140 that kind of national exposure or experience from people who've known me and worked with me
00:59:09.180 so we didn't make the first 25 000 it's a place where i had to draw on my my i still have a little
00:59:16.220 business in terms of my consulting and our solar panel and a little bit of pay that my daughter
00:59:21.280 pays me for working on the farm. I had to draw it out of that account and out of our personal account
00:59:27.300 to send enough money to our campaign to pay the first $25,000. And so at some point, we'll need
00:59:34.860 to raise the money. I think it's, my chief financial officer tells me it has to be a loan.
00:59:40.800 i can't just give it um but i would like to get it back actually so hopefully after teniel's good
00:59:50.400 and if i keep going it's all good we'll eventually raise enough money over 133 000 to pay me back
00:59:58.240 but if i don't make it through this next hurdle then our campaign will be needing to figure out
01:00:03.920 how to pay me back and pay a bunch of expenses because we've just been absorbing i've just been
01:00:08.240 absorbing one at this point but we are going to be in montreal and i will be trying to use my
01:00:14.800 two years of high school french from over 50 years ago to uh do a little something off i'll say um
01:00:22.560 but we're coming we're going to ride share it there so we're going to have a little band that
01:00:27.040 somebody has and we're all going to put in some gas money and we're going to get there because
01:00:31.920 ride sharing is one of the best ways to reduce to increase the passenger kilometers per liter
01:00:39.200 and to reduce the amount of vehicle traffic on the road so we're going to not only walk
01:00:44.880 our talk but drive our talk as well so i might skip ahead and kind of do the little lightning
01:00:51.520 round now if that's okay with you guys but tony before i do can you tell people where they can
01:00:56.320 follow your campaign and keep up with you and support you and i guess also cheneal
01:01:01.920 well there's um yeah uh at at tony mcwayo green progressive dot ca that's our website was started
01:01:09.600 by a high school student who liked what i was saying and and came on board to start it and it's
01:01:15.680 now got some other folks helping because his life got busy i'm apparently on a number of
01:01:19.840 social media platforms that being an old farmer i don't know much about but there's we've got
01:01:25.760 a wonderful team putting on blue sky mastodon um instagram i think there's some on x possibly on
01:01:34.720 twitter um and if you want to get sort of connected to our instagram stuff if you go to our website
01:01:40.400 and go to my campaign launch that's an instagram uh one um but uh yeah and and i'm i i know very
01:01:50.160 little about running a website but i think maybe we'll try and put an x on the donate section of
01:01:56.560 button on ours for a while and say go go to teniel's until we hear that they've got the money
01:02:02.400 they need wow anyway that's great okay so one of the lightning things i just thought of that i
01:02:09.200 really want to do is can i hear each of you say a little sentence in french about you know uh how
01:02:15.760 you feel about next week's debate just one little sentence just go for it who wants to go first
01:02:37.760 what would i say um a word that describes i mean bien i guess like good
01:02:45.760 oh my god this is funny i'm looking forward to seeing how the debate goes i think it'll be a
01:02:57.980 fun watch for the french components but uh i take it you guys are practicing your french though you
01:03:03.500 know yeah for sure yeah my brain is like so challenged by it because my adult life has
01:03:12.340 spent trying to learn licola which is like incredibly different so i went to start trying
01:03:18.660 to read french and i was like my brain is like um what are you trying to make me do
01:03:24.020 so it's just i was like wow that that brings up something that i think is really important to say
01:03:31.220 as long as we let language or race or sexuality or sexual orientation divide us as a people
01:03:40.260 we will always be under the thumb of the one percent. I will never be fluent in French,
01:03:46.660 but I also won't be fluent in the more than 70 indigenous languages that are part of the nation.
01:03:52.580 I don't speak Ukrainian. We have to accept that unless you plan to be a career politician and
01:04:00.340 then go polish your French or go into schools where you were groomed to be one of the elite
01:04:07.460 in this country you may not know french or you may not know english but does that mean that you can't
01:04:14.100 i found when we had katimovic billets that i got along a lot better with the kids from working
01:04:19.940 class quebec on the farm than i did with white privileged kids from rosemont and so we need to
01:04:28.260 figure out how to not let race, language divide us in ways that disempower us as the 99% who
01:04:39.780 make this country go round, who create the wealth of it, and have a real big vested interest in
01:04:45.940 having an ecology in Canada that lasts and that we can all live in.
01:04:51.780 yeah it's a very uh heartwarming message i uh i did also want to ask each of you to uh maybe in
01:05:02.420 like ideally a sentence or less but if you if you need to do a little more that's okay too
01:05:07.460 um i i really would love to hear one thing that you've heard from another leader ship hopeful
01:05:15.140 not leader, leadership hopeful in this campaign that you thought was really great.
01:05:22.740 And one thing that you found concerning or really disagreed with from another candidate
01:05:28.180 in this campaign. So whoever wants to go first. I think Rob Ashton's comment that you need leaders
01:05:38.020 who actually, when they put on working boots, they fit and have been broken in by working in them
01:05:43.040 for a number of days and years rather than people who put on work boots for the photo op thank you
01:05:49.900 Pierre so that was your uh your good one yeah good one yeah man there's there's there's a lot
01:05:59.740 that we agree on there's a yeah there's a lot that we agree on so um one thing that's uh different
01:06:06.820 on my campaign but um something that I don't disagree with on on another one that I would
01:06:11.280 still support is like Avi's approach to electrifying buses. I think it's great. I think
01:06:17.080 it's a plan that does use Canadian steel. I think putting electrified buses all over the country is
01:06:22.260 a really great idea. My preference is rail for lots of reasons, but not something that I don't
01:06:28.520 disagree with. I think we need variety in our approach to transportation that's accessible and
01:06:33.480 can help all communities so yeah nice all right now be mean what's your uh oh god I find it I
01:06:41.980 find it very endearing that you both immediately had the the positives and but you don't have to
01:06:48.380 name the candidate if you don't well I'll say one thing that is kind of a blanket statement
01:06:52.200 that has maybe um come up in a number of ways throughout this leadership race is
01:06:57.400 is there is this um folks are trying to make a direct comparison to Mamdani
01:07:03.500 and i have a soft spot sore spot for when minority successes are leveraged by privileged people
01:07:14.380 and in this leadership race there is a lot of privilege that exists
01:07:18.780 and and seeing the news articles and stuff come out and just conversations that are happening and
01:07:24.620 and that minority success being leveraged for for the potential success of another person
01:07:29.420 that is arguably white um is is challenging for me like i really it just it hits me differently
01:07:36.220 when i when i see that when i witness that and i have not really inserted myself much in those
01:07:40.300 conversations i wouldn't say i avoid it but i'm conscious of that each individual minority's
01:07:45.660 success is should be celebrated for what it is and honored for what it is and not leveraged for
01:07:50.380 someone else's you know uh opportunities that's actually i think a really important reminder and
01:07:55.660 kind of call-in moment for all of us to recognize that Zoran Mamdani, I mean everyone in the
01:08:01.500 progressive world is just aching to be compared to him, and I've certainly thrown it out there
01:08:07.420 at folks too, but I think it's really important not to diminish the aspect that this was the victory
01:08:12.300 of also a racialized person, and that's something that we need to remember and not diminish. So
01:08:17.900 thank you for that, Tanil. That's really poignant. Tony, how about you? You gotta...
01:08:22.860 Well, yeah, I think if there's a concern that I have is it's really easy to talk about being green and the environment, but I'm not hearing a clear call to get off the capitalist, corporate, consumerist, growth-oriented train crash that we're on.
01:08:43.720 And so I'm not I'm not hearing people. And that's why I wanted to be in this race is to talk about degrowth, to talk about the need to severely reduce or significantly reduce our energy and resource use while figuring out how we do that while maintaining and improving the lives of people.
01:09:02.260 As a small farmer for the last 50 plus years, we've had to live a frugal life.
01:09:10.040 So materially, it's been a pretty frugal life, but it's also been an incredibly rich and wonderful life in terms of friendships and community and family.
01:09:19.140 And as a farmer, I'm so blessed to be able to be out working in nature 95% of the time sleety days moving the cattle are not always a joy.
01:09:29.260 But we have to figure out how we can get off the hamster wheel that that capitalist corporate consumer society has most people on.
01:09:41.100 And that by limiting their access to housing, to food, to making that always a desperate struggle, means that we're destroying the planet on which we need to live so that the rich can get richer.
01:09:53.120 Because that was the other thing that, you know, my father was an accountant and he told me two things.
01:09:57.560 He said, money's like manure.
01:09:59.260 It does the most good when you spread it around.
01:10:02.980 But the other thing he said, and he works with some pretty rich folk as an accountant,
01:10:08.440 was that one of the problems with money is you can always want more.
01:10:14.100 And so our billionaires still think they need more.
01:10:17.000 I'm sorry, they don't.
01:10:18.820 We need to figure out how to change the economy so it's distributive
01:10:22.880 and so that the wealth that has been accumulated since before Confederation
01:10:28.540 and certainly since before people working people got the vote starts to get spread back out around
01:10:33.900 the community so it really does more good um for canadians across the country so you know i i need
01:10:42.060 i i wanted to hear somebody talking about d growth and i still do hear myself talking about d growth
01:10:48.700 and uh i i kind of hear tenille talking about uh some of that too but i i don't feel that that maybe
01:10:55.340 be, you know, growth has been promoted as such a good thing for so long in terms of our economic
01:11:01.360 discourse that if you don't talk about growth, you know, nobody will vote for you. Well, at this
01:11:06.140 point, if you don't start talking about degrowth, you're talking about, well, let's just keep feeding
01:11:10.560 the cancer cells here. Have some more sugar. You know, no, I'm sorry, folks. We need to talk about
01:11:16.280 degrowth and how to do it fairly and effectively and quickly.
01:11:23.360 Great. Well, guys, I know I've already kept you a little bit over the time that we had planned
01:11:28.640 for today. So I'll just give you one last opportunity in that I'd love to have each of
01:11:36.380 you say in one sentence what you hope the listeners retain from today and from hearing
01:11:43.700 from you today? What is one thing that you really hope sticks with them? Go for it. Whoever wants to
01:11:49.840 go first. Send your donations to Tennille's campaign until it's got the money it needs
01:11:54.660 and then send it to us. Fantastic. Tennille? I hope that you hear that we need the right
01:12:03.760 leader for the here and now and that that job of prime minister isn't necessarily it. We need
01:12:09.260 someone that can bring us together and move into the next election and really slay and get back
01:12:14.580 that leverage in the House of Commons. And I would be honored to do that work for the party.
01:12:20.020 Great. Well, thank you both so much for your time today. This was an incredible conversation.
01:12:25.680 Apologies to the folks in the chat that I wasn't able to take more questions. These guys just had
01:12:29.880 so much interesting stuff to say. And I couldn't stop listening and just like asking my own
01:12:37.120 questions so thank you for indulging me chat but just remember that both of them are very accessible
01:12:41.680 so if you want to reach out i'm sure they'd be happy to answer your questions directly
01:12:45.680 and good luck to you both on thursday uh hopefully i can try to swing by the debate we'll have to see
01:12:52.160 because i'm in montreal but uh either way best of luck to both of you and thank you again for
01:12:57.040 your time today thank you thanks so much rachel bye bye rachel thank you for listening to this
01:13:08.240 week's episode of bubble pop i'm rachel gilmore your least favorite person's least favorite
01:13:12.720 journalist if you enjoyed this episode consider subscribing on youtube patreon sub stack or
01:13:17.920 wherever you like to listen you can also find me on tick tock instagram twitch and blue sky
01:13:23.440 i'd like to give a special thank you to hans vivian wenzel for making the incredibly groovy
01:13:27.680 music for bubble pop you can find more of his stuff on spotify under the artist name hans
01:13:32.560 that's a lowercase h with an exclamation mark thank you again for spending this time with me
01:13:37.760 this is my dream job i know i say that every week but that's because it's true every week and
01:13:43.040 I couldn't do it for one second without your support, so thank you, and I'll see you next time.