00:00:59.320Hello, I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist. Welcome to
00:01:04.640Bubble Pop, the show where we talk about some of the biggest headlines and juiciest news tidbits,
00:01:09.580so you don't have to doomscroll. Today, I am so honored to have primary care physician
00:01:15.320Yipeng Ji back on the show. Last time he was on, he was about to leave to join an effort to march
00:01:20.880to the Rafa crossing to try to break Israel's siege on Gaza. This time, he's at the tail end
00:01:26.640of days spent on board a Freedom Flotilla that's about to leave for Gaza, carrying medical supplies,
00:01:32.260prosthetics for children, and other essential humanitarian aid. The Freedom Flotilla Coalition
00:01:37.340came into being in 2010. And together with its preceding movement, it has been trying to bring
00:01:43.300aid to Gaza since about 2008. You might be familiar with this movement because of their
00:01:49.040recent flotilla, the Madeleine, which had climate activist Greta Thunberg on board along with many
00:01:54.500other inspirational people. Before it could deliver aid to Gaza, it was illegally intercepted by the
00:02:00.680Israeli government. Now the Handala, the newest slotilla, is trying again. Yipeng Ji, who has
00:02:06.900previously been on the ground in Gaza providing aid amid the genocide, is just finishing his time
00:02:13.080spent on the Handala, and he joins us on this show today from on board. Yipeng, welcome back to Bubble
00:02:21.000pop thank you for having me back rachel of course it is my genuine honor um you know obviously we're
00:02:29.320recording this on a thursday and you technically disembarked although you are back on it right now
00:02:37.560from the hondula yesterday correct um i i just want to ask you like
00:02:43.800how you're feeling right now to be quite honest it's a lot of mixed um emotions because
00:02:51.000yeah because just just like there are ongoing massacres and in gaza and and this is why we're
00:03:00.060doing this um and so as much as there is so much hope there is so much um collective care and wisdom
00:03:09.440from being surrounded by these beautiful souls on this boat but also uh the the incredible team
00:03:17.280that make this vote possible and the freedom flotilla coalition team and actually the local
00:03:23.760community here too that has welcomed us at the port and has run like events and community and
00:03:30.320cultural events so it's it's it's a lot of mixed emotions because we are still organizing around
00:03:36.960ending genocide and and to know that there are palestinians in gaza who are messaging me
00:03:43.760um some who i know some who i haven't met yet and hope to meet one day are anticipating and
00:03:50.360waiting for the arrival of this boat and how that gives them hope and how that gives them joy
00:03:55.640despite them not having enough food to eat starving um or experiencing the ongoing
00:04:03.200environments it's it's it's it's yeah it's mixed emotions yeah i can only imagine um
00:04:13.340Now, I do want to ask you a bit more about that. But before we dive into that, I think that some folks listening might not be super aware of the freedom flotilla movement, they might have seen a few headlines here and there. But I'm, I'm wondering if you could tell them a little bit more about what this movement is, and what it's hoping to achieve.
00:04:36.800Yeah, of course. So, I'm sitting on the Handala Freedom Flotilla, which is the 37th vote that the Freedom Flotilla Coalition will be sending to Gaza to challenge Israel's ongoing illegal siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip.
00:04:57.660Israel has controlled what goes in and out of the Gaza Strip and tightened that grip to not allow so many things, essential medicines, food, putting the entire population of the Gaza Strip prior to this overt genocide that started October 7, 2023, which is a population of 2.2 million, which I don't know, you know,
00:05:27.600like this is many many have have have been slaughtered by israel during this genocide
00:05:34.880um since 2007 that this uh illegal siege and blockade has been uh conducted and upheld by
00:05:43.280israel actually maintained by the west maintained by other complicit states that allow israel to do
00:05:48.880this with impunity because this is illegal international law and what is permissive
00:05:57.840under international law is to actually sail on international waters and then to arrive
00:06:03.840in sovereign calestinian territory and calestinian waters to deliver aid to a much
00:06:12.960a much-needed aid to a population. And this started as something called the Free Gaza Movement
00:06:21.120in 2008 in response to Israel's illegal siege and blockade of the Gaza Strip in 2007.
00:06:28.880And the group was able to bring in supplies and medicines and food and aid through five different
00:06:39.280ships across four missions in the fall of 2008. But after which Israel tightened its grip even on
00:06:50.660these ships that were bringing basic supplies that is still just a drop in the ocean with respect to
00:06:59.420what Gaza needs and deserves. And beyond those first few ships that arrived there have been
00:08:00.400the Handel of Freedom Flotilla that I'm sitting on
00:08:02.400is the 37th boat since this long history.
00:08:08.440And I think it's important to kind of mention the 10 activists that were killed at many more injured by the Israeli forces on a 2010 Freedom Flotilla Coalition boat, the Mab-i-Memar.
00:08:26.380these 10 Turkish activists were killed. I believe six of them through autopsies were actually
00:08:35.260shot point blank from behind. So they were executed by the Israeli military on board
00:08:45.340their ship. But this did not deter activists. In fact, more boats came afterwards, many more boats
00:08:55.180since 2010 to challenge Israel's illegal siege and blockade.
00:09:00.220It's so inspiring. And I feel like it's just honestly so
00:09:06.940revealing that of the Israeli government and state's intentions, that they would disrupt
00:09:15.820people who are bringing very basic aid, you know, like that. It just how can you?
00:09:21.500I just I don't understand how you can logically look at that and feel as though your intentions
00:09:31.620are good you know what I mean so it's it's obviously I mean clearly there's so many reasons
00:09:37.400to not feel as though the Israeli government's intentions are good um it just keeps showing
00:09:42.100itself again and again and again but it's just such a bare basic thing and and such a such a
00:09:50.140cruelty. It really strikes me. So I did want to ask you, I mean, you sent me some of the most
00:09:57.500like beautiful, you know, in the face of all of that, these beautiful images from the flotilla,
00:10:06.420you know, the messages scribbled on board from different activists from different parts of the
00:10:12.820world. I wanted to ask you if you could tell us a little bit about what it's been like being
00:10:20.000on board? I truly believe that it's been the experience of a lifetime and the honor and privilege
00:10:27.600of a lifetime to be on board the Honda African flotilla at this kind of point in time to be
00:10:34.620surrounded by these really incredible beautiful human beings on board this flotilla who have so
00:10:44.860much like so many stories so much experience so much wisdom um individually and then as a collective
00:10:52.060oh my gosh like the the the things that we can accomplish together when we strategize when put
00:10:59.820our efforts together is is powerful is is is sending this vote right and um i think part of
00:11:07.980of what some people might not realize is that we stand on the shoulders of giants, of ancestors,
00:11:16.300of so many people who have taught us right from wrong, who have taught us what it means to build
00:11:24.060people power against oppression in the face of injustice. And there's so much incredible energy
00:11:34.920on this boat and on the land that the land team that supports this boat like there are hundreds
00:11:42.920if not thousands of people that make something like this possible and to be in their company
00:11:49.620to learn with them to learn from them to be guided by them to be mentored by them
00:11:56.000to feel cared for by them to be held by them to cry together to laugh together it is
00:12:02.500It is really like healing in the face of bearing witness to what is incomprehensible or that is felt by so many of us because our colleagues and friends and comrades are in Palestine and for some team members, it's their families.
00:27:30.080in the face of injustice and oppression
00:27:32.120to end that complicity in our own communities,
00:27:37.700in our own local, state, governments, and what.
00:27:40.820Yeah, and I think what you just described there actually perfectly refutes the ridiculous premise that I am going to mention here, but not because I think it has any validity, but because I want to give you the chance to say your piece in response to this.
00:28:04.260because one thing that I have found really disgusting in the wake of these kinds of efforts
00:28:10.520are folks who have suggested, and I barely even want to say it, they try to say this was performative
00:28:17.460or that it's ridiculous to think you can succeed. There was an op-ed published in the National Post
00:28:23.480mocking the March to Gaza participants for needing help after being arrested in Egypt.
00:28:28.380um these are bad faith arguments to be clear um whose only goal appears to be to try to stop good
00:28:34.860people from trying so i don't want you to feel like you have to engage with the substance of
00:28:39.500these critiques because there is none but i want to give you the chance if you'd like to to say
00:28:46.940your piece to people who make those claims yeah i don't know if i have really an answer for them
00:28:54.320because um that's not where where our time and energy is is going right to to to explain ourselves
00:29:02.640to people who never had the intention of helping people who are oppressed who never had the
00:29:10.480intention of standing against injustice and these bad faith actors do this to dissuade people from
00:29:20.560um understanding their actual like power and collective power um
00:29:28.960so i guess like one thing that's really interesting as well like after the enduring
00:29:36.720like the global march to gaza about it being a performative action you know i think about
00:29:44.160a friend who was with me said like you know everything in life is is technically performative
00:29:49.200like everything that we do um to an extent um is never going to be enough to tackle those those
00:29:57.680these systems of oppression being capitalist colonial imperial like machines that uh like
00:30:05.680run this world but what we can do is to challenge it we know um like we know
00:30:14.080We know how hard it is to challenge these massive machines of oppression.
00:30:23.240This is not what we're concerned with.
00:30:26.060We're concerned with what can we do physically as individuals and as collectives working
00:30:58.040So when we know that like what we do is building upon
00:31:03.900generations and decades of human rights movement work,
00:31:08.900movement work. We are not swayed or affected by these kinds of comments because these kinds of
00:31:20.420comments are by bad faith actors only meant to divide the movement, waste and distract our time
00:31:29.760main resources. And if anything, you know, it does help us find the people who we need to spend more
00:31:39.580time with and organize with so that we can co-create the society and the world that we all want to live
00:31:45.900in. One that is more equitable, more fair, more inclusive, more tolerant of all different peoples
00:31:54.940And I would also say that, like, the things that we do, people will measure success in different ways.
00:32:15.420And to, like, you know, something like this has been successful even before it takes off.
00:32:24.940because we've already touched the hearts and minds of the Palestinian people in Gaza,
00:32:30.000but also a lot of people around the world.
00:32:32.420People come to the boat here in Gallipoli to interact with the boat,
00:32:39.380to interact with the people on the boat, to send messages of love.
00:32:43.320There's so much unexpressed love for the Palestinian people in Gaza
00:32:49.040by the people that we've met here in Italy.
00:32:51.380We've had so many tears of joy, tears of sorrow, beautiful smiles, and this is really, really meaningful because it shows, like, even if you call it a performance, and you can call it that, and there are forms of art that are literal performances, like the dramatic arts.
00:33:21.380uh the visual arts like these are things that are really important in social movements as well
00:33:27.620they give people um back language they give them back culture they give them back hope and joy
00:33:33.860um to be able to resist colonial um erasure in all of its forms including in culture including
00:33:41.620in the arts so um we need it all and um and something like this i think can include all
00:33:51.620those things and does include all those things um in in its mission yeah yeah that's super super
00:33:59.860well put um you know the another piece of the puzzle obviously is um pressure on governments
00:34:09.300right and uh earlier this week um i asked you if you had a message for the canadian government and
00:34:18.580i'm just going to quickly read out what you told me you said quote the time to end your
00:34:22.820complicity in israel's crimes was yesterday today do what is necessary and within your power to
00:34:29.140end israel's crimes sanctions and free trade and arms trade full two-way arms embargo anything less
00:34:36.980is ongoing complicity and active involvement in allowing israel to commit genocide now i sent that
00:34:44.260to the foreign affairs minister's office and asked them to respond to your words and two days later
00:34:52.820they finally acknowledged my request as of the time we're doing this interview it's right now
00:34:58.420literally the second 11 40 a.m on thursday july 17th um while they have acknowledged it they have
00:35:05.460not sent me a response i want to ask you how you feel about that but also more broadly how you feel
00:35:14.900about the canadian government's handling of all of this
00:35:23.860i mean it's just awful yeah um i like to go for example i one of the questions i remember
00:35:32.820and reflecting on now i've been asked before recently is like do you think like the canadian
00:35:38.980government will like um help you if you are in trouble for example on the boat um
00:35:46.260well the canadian government was completely useless when i went into gaza they were also
00:35:52.580completely useless um in helping uh palestinian canadians evacuate gaza they were also completely0.64
00:36:02.020useless when Canadians were arbitrarily detained, some questioned, and some deported from Egypt0.67
00:36:12.260during the Golden March to Gaza. So I have no expectation that they will do anything meaningful
00:36:20.500to support the Handel of Freedom Flotilla, even if there was a Canadian on board moving forward
00:36:28.420in the next few days. And this is in line with what their policies have been around Palestine.
00:36:38.580A complete dismissal, a complete turning away from the issue, the root causes of what's happening,
00:36:46.740being Zionist Southern colonialism now manifesting as genocide by Israel. And Canada still says,
00:36:54.900well, Israel is our ally, while Canada still says Israel has the right to defend itself after it
00:36:59.860attacked Iran, for example. Canada says one thing and does another. Canada will say,
00:37:07.700well, we've cancelled a few different, you know, permits for technologies that go to Israel.
00:37:16.100Well, those permits were around 30 permits, making up around 12% of the existing permits
00:37:23.140at that time this was like over a year ago in january last year and so 88 percent of permits
00:37:27.780still still were maintained um and i learned you know a few weeks ago that canada approved new
00:37:35.220spending um for arms technologies from canadian companies that go to israel over over 30 million
00:37:41.940um and that was just this year um so canada will say one thing and then do another
00:37:46.820and while we've seen some degree of language
00:39:33.460being the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls, but it doubles down, continues to
00:39:41.380double down. And I don't know what more to say to them. I've met with ministers, I've met with
00:39:49.140members of parliament, and they have the same talking points that Global Affairs Canada gives
00:39:55.860them. And then the Global Affairs Canada budgetary assessments that they put out say another thing.
00:40:03.220So it's really remarkable gaslighting and doublespeak.
00:40:12.500It makes you want to lose your mind and go insane,
00:40:17.300but I just think it means we continue working with the people
00:40:23.300that see it for truly what it is, support one another,
00:40:26.980and we push really hard for these institutions like the federal government
00:40:33.220like every level of government to end their complicity because they're not going to do so
00:40:37.460voluntarily because their capitalist and colonial interests will supersede the interests and people's
00:40:43.700right to life and dignity and self-determination. You know, speaking of supporting each other
00:40:51.060in the face of a government that's unwilling to do so, I wanted to ask you how people listening
00:40:56.580can support the hundala um i think the best thing to do to support the hundala is to to talk about
00:41:08.020the hundala freedom flotilla to keep your eyes on it but know that the hundala freedom flotilla
00:41:14.180is not the only story we all know that the story is the genocide in ghazin this is why
00:41:22.420people are doing this but there is a degree of protection when the international community
00:41:30.500is watching the handle. Israeli forces will do what they will but a degree of protection is given
00:41:40.420to the people on this boat and to the boat itself if we are all bearing witness and so
00:41:47.540some of the things that are being kind of worked out right now is to make sure
00:41:51.380live streaming and making sure those kinds of protections are on board so that um the ongoing
00:41:58.660communication between the hundla boat and the rest of the world will continue um and perhaps
00:42:04.820once again be cut off by the israeli forces when if and when they um uh intercept and that is what
00:42:12.900they did for the madeline the last boat is they immediately went for the telecommunications and
00:42:18.340cut them. And this is true of the police. When no one's watching, the repression and the brutality
00:42:29.620is much worse. So that's, I think, the best way to support. And I think beyond that is to,
00:42:41.220I think, not let the people on this vote and not let the Freedom Flotilla Coalition
00:42:48.340Do the work alone, maybe think like and be inspired by how people can do this and maybe get involved, maybe volunteer with the coalition, maybe volunteer with a local campaign that is part of this coalition, or maybe like do something entirely different with the people around you in your neighborhood, in your backyards to end some degree of complicity in Israel's crimes or to really just like start a culture.
00:43:18.340of movement building, of understanding we have the power
00:43:22.340to do amazing things as people of conscience in this world
00:43:31.340who want to see a different society, who want to see change in this world
00:43:34.340and are willing to put in the work to do that.
00:43:37.340And will not just be rhetoric, but actually material things
00:43:41.340to help change those conditions of our neighbours,
00:43:44.740of our community members who are suffering from the impacts of capitalism and colonialism in our
00:43:52.100own backyard and to do that as a group and to continue to learn to make mistakes and to grow
00:43:57.220together and to kind of make that commitment for what we can do to help not be changed by the world
00:44:06.580and to keep that kind of like hope and inspiration for a better world but to put in that work
00:44:13.460One of the things I keep asking people on this boat is like, why do you do so much, right?
00:44:23.340Like, why do you feel the need to, like, it's one thing to have a solid political analysis.0.76
00:44:29.040It's one thing to know that what's happening in Palestine is wrong.
00:44:31.580It's another thing to put in a lot of time and energy and work to try to change those conditions.
00:44:37.280And I think it's just really beautiful kind of like this like paradigm and this like worldview of like, I have the power to do something really meaningful in this world.
00:44:48.700And we're even more powerful when we do it with other people.
00:44:52.980And the more that we can kind of build this movement culture into our communities, into our schools, into our institutions, like we can do amazingly beautiful, powerful things for the people around us, people that we love.
00:45:06.660and actually do that for people that we love
00:45:09.960on the other side of the planet as well.
00:45:12.420We're seeing like trade unions take stands