00:00:00.000Hello, I'm Rachel Gilmore, your least favorite person's least favorite journalist. Welcome to
00:00:12.480Bubble Pop. This is the weekly show where we talk about some of the biggest headlines and
00:00:17.280juiciest news tidbits so you don't have to doom scroll. And for season two, as I said last week,
00:00:23.600we're doing it live, baby. So it's just a reminder that if you want to support the show,
00:00:29.180you can do so on Patreon, Substack, YouTube, as well as anywhere you like to listen. You can also
00:00:34.560use the super chat function on YouTube while we're live to ask questions that we'll do our best to
00:00:40.020answer at the end of the episode, provided they're appropriate. All right, so let's pop your bubble.
00:00:47.340Today, I am so honored to have primary care physician Yipeng Ji back on the show. He's been
00:00:53.680very generous with his time with Bubble Pop. Yipeng has previously been on the ground providing
00:00:59.320aid in Gaza amid the genocide. He's traveled with the activists who tried to march to Gaza to break
00:01:05.540Israel's deadly siege, and he spent time on board a previous recent freedom flotilla that tried to
00:01:11.700do the same, carrying medical supplies, prosthetics for children, medication, and other essential
00:01:17.900humanitarian aid. But on top of his relentless, fearless advocacy to try to end Israel's genocide
00:01:23.820in Gaza and Canada's complicity, he's also worked on and studied the structural and colonial
00:01:30.040determinants of health here at home. And given we just marked the National Day for Truth and
00:01:34.780Reconciliation, we're going to talk about that too. So without further ado, let's bring in
00:01:41.100Yipeng. Yipeng Ji, welcome to Bubble Pop. Thank you so much for having me, Rachel.
00:01:48.600Thank you for being on the show again. I've really, I'm constantly barraging you with
00:01:54.000requests to do this podcast. So I really appreciate it. So I wanted to start things off
00:02:00.380by talking about the Samud Flotilla. You were previously on board of the Kandala,
00:02:07.920which is one of the flotillas that sailed before this one can you tell us a little bit
00:02:14.340about that experience and what it's like on board of one of these vessels
00:02:18.820yeah of course and it's so good to be chatting with you again like this because the last time
00:02:27.500we chatted was was when I was on the hundula boat I was sitting on it and I remember chatting with
00:02:33.320you um in that capacity and the hundala boat was the 37th boat sent under the freedom flotilla
00:02:41.460and it started as the free gaza movement back in 2008 so the first four boats actually made it to
00:02:47.840the shores of gaza under the free gaza movement but since 2008 only 37 boats have been sent up
00:02:55.780until the Handala. And with the Global Samud Flotilla, which came as a grassroots movement
00:03:03.940because of some of the organizers from the Global March to Gaza, and they had to re-think their
00:03:10.820strategy after being stopped in Cairo, in Ismailia, to not be able to advance further to the Rafa
00:03:18.740border um and to have like you know the 4 000 um activists volunteers from all over the world
00:03:25.300um try to march to the rafa border to demand you know entry of humanitarian aid they sent over 40
00:03:31.860boats in a matter of these past few days but there's also more boats and flotillas um on their
00:03:38.580way under the thousand madeline uh boats to gaza and the freedom flotilla coalition as well so
00:03:45.300So there's more boats on their way as we speak that are sailing on the Mediterranean Sea towards Gaza.
00:03:51.520And I think it's also just a reflection of how much the movement for Palestinian liberation has grown to see this amount of escalation by people's movement and activist movement for a liberated Palestine.
00:04:09.100because these boats are not only carrying humanitarian aid and just everyday ordinary
00:04:14.280volunteers and activists from around the world who took time away from their jobs, their families,
00:04:19.560their lives, and, you know, some really incredible stories of people like selling their car to be
00:04:26.360able to do this and to be on these boats, to be in solidarity with the Palestinian people and
00:04:31.480their right to exist, their right to life, their right to liberation. It's not just carrying
00:04:36.380humanitarian aid, but it's a symbolic gesture, a presentation of the need for governments and
00:04:44.220states to do this. There's like, for the Samud flotilla at least, there's like 44 different
00:04:51.060international countries, citizenships represented. And these are the states and the governments that
00:04:57.620are responsible, including many more around the world. They're responsible for breaking Israel's0.98
00:05:02.100illegal siege, but also responsible for punishing and preventing genocide, which as an international
00:05:07.120community, we have utterly failed to do so. But they are filling that gap that is left open by
00:05:13.160states and governments because they failed to do what is necessary in this moment to punish and
00:05:18.400prevent genocide and to end illegal occupation in the West Bank. And it also is a highlight to
00:05:26.040the necessary things that we need to do when we have privilege in this world, when we hold foreign
00:05:31.840um citizenship our lives somehow matter more in this world to to people to governments and states
00:05:40.140so we have to put our bodies on the line to do what we can and it also highlights the absolute0.77
00:05:45.480need uh for palestinian um palestinians right to return um and uh there are many palestinian
00:05:53.260friends and comrades who want to be on these boats who should be on these boats who should
00:05:57.240be able to return to their traditional you know indigenous territories but are unable to because
00:06:04.680of Israel's colonial project that is continuing to expand in the region and continuing to expand
00:06:11.800with American support into the Gaza Strip as we can see it's a colonial project.
00:06:19.000Yeah you know it must be a really powerful thing being on board a boat of like-minded people who
00:06:26.920are all so steadfastly dedicated to opposing a genocide especially in the face of the failures
00:06:32.680of states i'm just wondering if you could describe a little bit emotionally how that feels being on
00:06:37.880board i think it's a really special feeling to be surrounded by people who not only share similar
00:06:47.640politics but actually um their uh world view on how we get things done in this world how do we
00:06:56.440create the change necessary is that we are the ones that create it we don't sit around and wait
00:07:01.320for governments and states to issue their statements and follow through with their
00:07:06.760actions because we know that they haven't and um just to be with people who from once again like
00:07:14.340all walks of this life on this planet from different professions. And there's also language
00:07:21.800barriers and things that we have to work through. But it's beautiful to be with people, having spent
00:07:27.800some time with the Hundula Freedom Flotilla team, to know that there are people all around the world
00:07:33.580who refuse to stay silent, but also refuse to do nothing about it. So they're doing everything
00:07:43.940that they can actually within their power um as a volunteer as someone who has experience in
00:07:50.020activism as someone who has experienced sailing boats it is a it is such a beautiful like um
00:07:58.500intermeshing of uh experiences of of people sharing what their skills are what their
00:08:04.980capacity is to be able to go on these boats um and sail to Gaza because not everyone can
00:08:34.540to escape political violence and persecution,
00:08:38.660and to be repressed in that experience to see their work of being on the seas to document these things.
00:08:47.660It's just seeing a lot of like the intersections of social justice but also environmental justice activism work
00:08:56.660like convalesce in on Palestine, which is such a beautiful thing.
00:09:01.660I remember learning about people who also are part of sea shepherding,
00:09:07.660which is, you know, to protect against illegal crimes, against, you know, environmental causes
00:09:16.580like, you know, overfishing and, you know, protecting the seas. And so you have people
00:09:24.180that do all these different kinds of social activism work to make this planet a better
00:09:29.300place, who are the helpers of this world, who are the, like Francesca Albanese, the UN Special
00:09:34.860of the Torah in Palestine, it says it, are the antibodies for a healthy society. And to see them
00:09:40.340all kind of come together on the issue of Palestine, because Palestine right now is the0.54
00:09:45.380moral issue of our time, is the holocaust of our time, to see everyone kind of put in what they can0.64
00:09:53.260in terms of their energy, their skills, what they have to offer, and to do this, and to see the Samu0.83
00:09:59.060flotilla, to see the Thousand Madeline flotilla, to see the Freedom Coalition flotilla,0.60
00:10:04.400and there will be more because we've seen how Israel can't actually stop every boat and I think
00:10:12.180the more that people like see the work of these kinds of direct action we'll be able to grow the
00:10:19.420movement towards a full liberated Palestine but this is not only about Palestine this is about
00:10:25.480colonialism and structural oppression and racism and discrimination and environmental you know
00:10:31.300uh abuse like all over the world because people see how their um social justice work their movement
00:10:38.740for liberation for their their peoples for their land is connected with palestine in this moment
00:10:46.520it's just so so clear um i think for so many people and and to be with people that not only
00:10:52.180have that sharpened politics but have this paradigm of this is how we get things done
00:10:58.560We are the ones that do it and we will put in the work and we will find the people to do it with.
00:11:05.340Yeah, I think one thing that was really incredible is, you know, we know waking up today that Israel has illegally kidnapped the activists from all of the from the Sumud flotilla boats.0.55
00:11:20.060However, we also know that as they were illegally intercepting these boats, one of them actually made it into Palestinian waters, which I believe is the first time that's happened in many, many years with this flotilla movement.
00:11:37.940And as you mentioned already, more are on the way, like the Conscience and the Thousand Madelines.
00:11:44.100So I guess I wanted to ask you, how do you feel seeing this huge effort still be quashed by Israel, but also have these little moments of breakthroughs and of unwillingness to give up?0.55
00:12:00.580How has this week felt to you as someone who's done this relentless advocacy work?
00:12:06.480you know I think when I saw the Handala boat back in July be intercepted by Israeli forces I
00:12:15.500was actually extremely gutted I felt like that boat for some reason I think maybe just because
00:12:21.400of spending time with the boat and with the people on that boat I just felt like that boat was going
00:12:26.020to make it for some reason there's this there's this kind of like radical optimism that I held0.86
00:12:30.740that no this boat's going to make it it's for the children of Gaza how could they stop this boat for
00:12:35.320the children of Gaza. It had baby form. It had prosthetic limbs for the children. And Haweda
00:12:40.180Araf, who was on the first boats that arrived and was part of the initial movement way back in 2018,
00:12:47.280she was on that boat, right? And I felt like something was going to happen. I felt like it
00:12:52.560was fate that that boat was going to make it. It did not. And just seeing that interception happen
00:12:58.840live was gutting. But when I saw what the Samud flotilla was going through, I actually didn't
00:13:07.160have that same reaction because I was seeing how the Israeli forces were not very effective
00:13:14.840in stopping over 40 boats. And you just mentioned the McKenna boat that was actually able into
00:13:23.000Palestinian territorial waters. That's the farthest any boat has gotten, I think, since 2008 when the
00:13:27.720first few boats actually arrived just a few miles off of the um shores of gaza and and actually it
00:13:34.440allowed for um palestinian fishermen um to fish because the israeli navy was busy
00:13:42.680you know tending to uh activists trying to bring in humanitarian aid and so um there's actually a
00:13:50.600lot of successes from the Samud flotilla already of course I'm very worried about my friends and
00:13:59.720colleagues and comrades who are on those boats like I know multiple Samud flotilla boats but I
00:14:07.960know that Israel will probably detain them maybe torture them maybe hurt them a little bit but they
00:14:14.520will be like released and deported um in in time um this this is you know their their experience
00:14:23.320of repression by the israeli forces is incomparable to what palestinians in gaza are still going
00:14:29.480through and and they know that too having spent time with them they know that their lives are
00:14:34.760not more valuable or meaningful than a palestinian oh no it looks like yipeng's connection just got
00:14:43.800lost um hopefully he'll be back in just a moment um but uh in the meantime i i think what he was
00:14:51.480saying was really powerful it really struck me what he was saying about the uh the fishermen
00:14:57.880being able to fish um it's a bit absurd the reality that they were doing so in the context of
00:15:05.560Israel's forces trying to stop humanitarian aid from being delivered but the fact that these
00:15:16.680fishermen were able to fish and were able to do that because of this effort just goes to show how
00:15:23.160one boat can make a difference because these fishermen were able to feed their families
00:15:28.120because of that, and that is truly incredible. Yipeng is back, so I'm just going to bring him
00:15:35.720back on. Thank you. I know he's joining us from, I believe, his clinic, so the connection isn't0.96
00:15:42.840necessarily as good as it might otherwise be, but welcome back, Yipeng. We are just chatting about
00:15:48.440how wonderful and inspiring it is that the fishermen were able to potentially feed their
00:15:54.920families because of that one boat that got through so it's it's truly inspiring um you know i did
00:16:02.200want to ask you about the canadian government's reaction we do know that there was at least
00:16:09.720one canadian passport holder who was uh detained as a part of the samud flotilla and there are
00:16:17.720more canadian passport holders on the way um i reached out to the government this week
00:16:23.880and I asked them what they are going to do for the flotilla, including for the Canadians who
00:16:28.520are traveling to Gaza. In their response, they told me, quote, the government of Canada is not
00:16:34.920able to guarantee the safety of Canadian travelers or to provide them with security and protection
00:16:41.160abroad. What do you make of that, particularly in the face of, you know, other states providing said
00:16:49.160aid the irish foreign ministry saying that they are going to assist citizens who were illegally
00:16:55.640intercepted they didn't use the term illegal as far as i saw but you know we know it's an
00:17:00.680illegal interception as well as the colombian government expelling israeli diplomats south
00:17:06.760africa's president requesting the immediate release of those abducted what do you make of canada's
00:17:13.240in action. Well it's interesting you bring up Zahira because she's actually one of my friends.
00:17:24.440I met her in Toronto and I actually spent time with her in Cairo, Egypt, doing some mutual aid
00:17:30.440work for Palestinian families who are living in Egypt, in Cairo, because they've been forcibly
00:17:37.400displaced ethnic group plans from Gaza and you know just to see the Canadian government
00:17:44.920not only not care about their own civilians but not do everything within their power under their
00:17:51.160own obligations under international law things that they've committed to because we live in you
00:17:57.480know this like rules-based order after World War II where we've set up the United Nations
00:18:02.440we've set up things like um uh you know the prevention of of genocide convention um not only
00:18:10.280prevention but punishment as well to say never again in this world and yet we're seeing it happen
00:18:16.520again actually live streamed right right in front of us and um you know canada has very like easy
00:18:24.520things and and actually obligations under international law like stop sending weapons
00:18:30.760to the perpetrator of this genocide to end trade well at least to reevaluate that trade agreement
00:18:38.760to sanction israel and to also prosecute um canadian institutions and individuals that
00:18:46.360have committed war crimes in gaza under the israeli military kind of banner and these are
00:18:52.520the most decent things and the most basic and most um uh moral and legal things that bring canada
00:19:00.120up to its own standard under international law like obligations but in addition to that there's
00:19:06.600there's also the responsibility of bringing in humanitarian aid to a besieged population because
00:19:11.720we live in this um you know international um you know social world order where when when something
00:19:19.160happens anywhere in the world we are supposed to help them and and canada has repeatedly failed to
00:19:27.480to do so along with so many other states in allowing Israel to forcibly withhold the aid
00:19:35.200that they choose to the entire Gaza Strip. You cannot be asking the occupying military force
00:19:44.180that is committing genocide against a population in a confined geographic location. You cannot be
00:19:51.840the ones asking them for permission to bring in things. You actually have to break that blockade
00:19:57.100and that siege that is an obligation and responsibility of all states and governments
00:20:01.900including canada i i remember uh when there were boats under i think italy under spain um that were
00:20:10.060supposed to accompany the samud flotilla and last minute they all chickened out and uh and and left
00:20:17.340them out to dry but but there was also um you know i think canadian um navy boat that was in the
00:20:24.700region as well and so why didn't canada send that boat not only to protect the smooth flotilla but
00:20:31.100just to just to bring in aid right we've seen time and time again israel has continued to
00:20:37.900systematically withhold um necessary things like food water fuel medicines medical supplies baby
00:20:46.140formula from entering the gaza strip and every human rights organization every humanitarian
00:20:53.980organization that's basically been working on the ground in gaza including the united nations
00:20:59.420is calling this genocide what are we still doing you know talking what are we still doing
00:21:05.740with with statements canada has even threatened sanctions against israel um a couple months ago
00:21:12.220with um other other countries but but there is no actual action and so i i think for so many of us
00:21:21.340especially you know us in canada like canadians are are i think rightfully furious and enraged
00:21:28.940that um when when canada has a role to play um on the international stage when canada says they um
00:21:38.220you know are um you know really like wanting to advocate and advance um women's and and the rights
00:21:45.820of of girls and females like this has been a huge priority for the canadian government
00:21:50.860um at least under the trudeau government you know it shatters all of the things that people
00:21:56.380um have once thought of of what canadian values are what canadian uh what canada's role is on
00:22:02.940international stage um and and we're just capitulating to fascists we're capitulating
00:22:09.260to Trump's America or capitulating to Netanyahu's Israel. And we saw how Carney even applauded
00:22:19.500Trump's plan for a complete takeover of the Gaza Strip, a colonial plan in cahoots with Israel.
00:22:29.580So when Canadians are seeing this, I think we have to absolutely hold our government accountable for their actions on the international stage, their actions at the United Nations General Assembly.
00:22:44.880Oh, my gosh, I can go on and on, because I remember just a few days ago seeing our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Anita Anand, speak at the United Nations General Assembly, telling, oh, we need to, we're asking Israel to protect Palestinians.
00:23:00.960We're asking Israel to protect, you know, health care or hospital institutions that they shouldn't be under attack.
00:23:07.000When that very day, Israel attacked Nasser Medical Complex, hitting a nurse who's working in that hospital, in the hospital, with a gunshot wound to the skull, to the head, with an Israeli drone.
00:23:23.920so it's just absurd for Canada still to be asking Israel to protect Palestinians when Israel is the
00:23:33.680one committing genocide against Palestinians as concluded by the United Nations and the absurdity
00:23:40.220that our federal foreign affairs minister can say this at the United Nations General Assembly
00:23:46.880How does that not make, you know, a farce and, you know, humiliation out of Canada on a world stage?
00:23:57.320And there's so much work to be done to kind of repair that if Canada wants to step on to the bright side of history, you know, the best moment is now.
00:24:09.000It's, I don't know, the more that we see this happen and, you know, I told you earlier, it's just the more insane I feel.
00:24:16.880Like if we are seeing things for what they are with our eyes wide open and to see Canada capitulate time and time again to Trump and to Trump's America and to Israel, it's bringing down an entire international rules-based order that Canada was applauded and applauds itself for setting up after World War II.
00:24:44.400um so it's it's disappointing frustrating it doesn't even i think put it i think it's just
00:24:51.740i i feel i feel like we're going insane the more that we continue to see this happen
00:24:55.980yeah well it feels like they have no respect for the intelligence of their own citizens
00:25:03.900to be able to stand in front of us and tell us that the things that we are seeing and hearing0.68
00:25:10.640aren't what's happening like it's just it's ridiculous and so insulting that they think0.97
00:25:17.940we're stupid enough to believe that um i mean you've been on the ground in gaza i know i've
00:25:26.820asked you this before when you've been on the podcast but i i think it's so valuable to hear0.91
00:25:33.000because of the fact especially that international journalists aren't allowed in um you know there's
00:25:38.720incredible Palestinian journalists on the ground uh risking their lives every day to bring us
00:25:44.240reporting and to bear witness to this genocide but while i have you here i i was wondering if
00:25:51.200you'd be willing to share with us what sort of things you saw when you were there
00:25:58.720yeah of course um i worked in multiple primary care clinics in central rafa
00:26:03.920last year in february so like a year and a half ago more than a year and a half ago and um i was
00:26:12.100supposed to work at nasser medical complex um the hospital that's made i think multiple news cycles
00:26:18.300because um it's been attacked multiple times once you know on live television where it was
00:26:25.200double-tapped by an Israeli airstrike, killing tens of journalists, first responders,
00:26:34.320including medical students, including Mohammed Al-Habibi, who was a final-year medical student,
00:26:41.960and it was his 24th birthday, and he was working at the hospital to become a doctor,
00:26:47.400and he was killed in that series of airstrikes. I ultimately didn't work at that hospital because
00:26:53.460is surrounded by Israeli tanks and later besieged by the Israeli military while I was in Rafa,
00:27:00.420in the primary care clinics that I worked at. And during that besiegement, you know, doctors,
00:27:05.620nurses, patients were abducted or killed or thrown in mass graves and buried around that hospital.
00:27:13.300And healthcare was specifically targeted, like the Israeli military cut off the probes of
00:27:21.060ultrasound machines to make them inoperable in the future. And you only do this because
00:27:26.900you want to destroy the last line of defense for a Palestinian civilian population
00:27:35.860that is just trying to continue to exist on their land. The primary care clinics that I
00:27:42.260worked at in central Uefa did not have basic things like antibiotics, like Tylenol or Advil
00:27:48.020for pain management we brought these medicines and started to prescribe them but that is not
00:27:53.820a solution for a few international doctors to come in and bring a few suitcases worth of medicines
00:27:59.480for a population at that point in central rafa was 1.4 million um is not a solution um and just
00:28:09.600seeing like the children that came through my the clinic that i worked at the majority of patients
00:28:14.800i saw were children um some of whom were just so starved and malnourished they were already skin and
00:28:21.920bones at that point you know a year and a half ago and only recently are people talking about
00:28:26.980there's famine there's famine people have been taught like the the threshold to call things
00:28:33.320like something like famine is very high but there was forcible starvation in gaza just a year and a
00:28:40.300half ago because of that blockade and that blockade actually is an 18 year old blockade
00:28:46.280because I remember seeing patients or seeing children that would greet me at the clinic
00:28:50.040because there's no school they don't know what to do so they just hang out at the clinic they
00:28:55.460would greet me and say you know what's my name how how am I doing and I thought that these children
00:29:01.060are much younger than than they appeared but then I later learned from other you know people at the
00:29:07.500clinic. No, these kids are actually older. They've been stunted, physically stunted, because of that
00:29:13.380existing, you know, 18-year blockade on what can enter the Gaza Strip, mainly, you know, food and
00:29:19.840supplies and necessary things for survival, for aid. And there's that long-standing Israeli policy
00:29:27.100of limiting the caloric intake of the entire Gaza Strip. And to see some of those things play out
00:29:33.620right in front of me, it was just a reminder of the impacts of colonialism on Palestinian people
00:29:42.300as indigenous peoples to that land. I remember seeing a child as approximately nine to 10 years
00:29:51.780old who was just skin and bones. He was being carried in by his mother, no longer able to walk
00:29:58.500when he was previously able to walk and I could wrap my index finger and thumb around the upper
00:30:06.140arm and the lower leg of this child and you know we were told by the World Health Organization you
00:30:13.160know you should use a measuring tape we didn't even have measuring tape we didn't have anything
00:30:18.100barely anything and but I didn't need such a tape to know that this child was in need of you know
00:30:25.600severe um you know um was in severe conditions and needed you know really intensive therapy like
00:30:32.240if i saw this patient in canada you would you know admit them to a pediatric hospital for
00:30:36.800refeeding to monitor them so that they can um you know be in in a monitored situation to kind of
00:30:42.800recover i spoke to the local doctor who was also not a local doctor who was you know um displaced
00:30:49.840from the north and he said well there's no such resource and all we could offer this child was
00:30:54.640IV fluid. IV fluid, which just introduces another source of possible infection,
00:31:00.800irritates the child, makes the parent or guardian or, you know, sometimes it's a,
00:31:06.560you know, family member, sometimes it's just, it's someone else, it's just a friend because some
00:31:10.400children are just completely alone, right? Like wounded child, no surviving family.
00:31:15.440And it makes for a situation where, you know, one of the other doctors is working with
00:31:21.200at that time you know a year and a half ago you know called it like torture like like we're just
00:31:27.540torturing some of these kids by just giving them iv fluid when what they needed was nutritious food
00:31:33.000clean water decent shelter all of which was being targeted um with airstrikes or systematically
00:31:39.820withheld by the borders of these like kilometers and kilometers of aid trucks not being let in
00:31:45.000and she called it torture and and i and i i agree with her i think it's this form of medical
00:31:50.560violence where when patients do not have the things necessary for their survival
00:31:55.900and you do medical interventions like iv fluid to try to prolong their life but you also prolong
00:32:04.000their suffering um so you do question like are you doing more harm than good and so that that i
00:32:10.760think comes comes to mind a lot and I didn't have the experience of this but I know other
00:32:16.880health care workers have which is like doing operations doing surgeries on children without
00:32:23.520anesthetics and like what what does that do to the child what does that do to the health care
00:32:30.580worker who's also from that community who's trying to save their people and and you signed up to do
00:32:38.100no harm and you're doing this kind of work. And it's not a reflection of, you know, Palestinian
00:32:43.600health care. It's a reflection of the legal blockade. It's a reflection of the Israeli
00:32:47.860attacks on health care, where the Israeli military have systematically attacked the hospitals and
00:32:54.520clinics over and over again. The primary care clinics that I worked at in central Rafa last
00:32:58.200year no longer exist. And before they were destroyed by the Israeli military because they
00:33:03.120invaded Rafa, that clinic actually functioned basically as a morgue to store dead bodies. It
00:33:08.960wasn't functional as a clinic, it became a place to store dead bodies from the multiple Al-Mawasi
00:33:14.940tent massacres over the course of last summer. And it was just awful to see a place that used to be
00:33:23.060where kids would play and laugh, a place of healing, a place where people would come to get
00:33:29.720healthcare, a place of life, has been turned into a place of death, a place where dead bodies are0.77
00:33:36.940stored, a morgue, and that is because of Israel's attacks on healthcare, but because of the0.86
00:33:45.280policies of attacking healthcare and this incessant need, I think, to advance their0.90
00:33:51.880colonial project, which is genocidal in nature, which is just death and destruction at its core.
00:33:59.720you know the whole time that you were describing just this nightmare this intentionally inflicted
00:34:10.500nightmare i couldn't stop thinking about the fact that that was february last year
00:34:16.040how do you reflect on your time in gaza now knowing how much worse the world has allowed
00:34:26.960israel's genocide to get i mean i think about how we have failed how how some of us you know who
00:34:41.040have been there and left we thought maybe if we just told the world what we saw maybe if we
00:34:48.040pressure our governments and explain to them what we saw that they would change their ways
00:34:53.220um but it was a really important lesson for me to know that that's not the world that we live in
00:34:59.820um you know to present the facts um doesn't make people in power um people with political and
00:35:09.400capital and economic interests to change their ways it's uh people power it's it's movement
00:35:16.740power that will put the necessary political pressure on states, on governments, on companies
00:35:26.980and institutions to change their ways. It's the only thing that ever has. I knew that to an extent,
00:35:33.120but I didn't know how much people will go to support Israel and support Zionism and support
00:35:44.940settler colonialism in Palestine it was a but also what a privilege to learn that you know
00:35:52.560Palestinians have been telling us for decades and generations the truth and and so many of us
00:36:01.760have been doing what we can and we've we've been treated like how Palestinians have been treated
00:36:10.580for decades and generations um been labeled as been labeled as anti-semitic been labeled as
00:36:21.460spreading lies um been labeled as all these things and we are not by simply wanting um
00:36:28.720palestinians like any people in this world the right to self-determination the right to life
00:36:35.200and dignity and the right to simply exist, to simply just exist in this world without bombs
00:36:43.860falling over their head. I think about the healthcare workers that shared food with me
00:36:51.140and they really encouraged this, you know, to break bread together, to spend time together
00:36:57.900and to eat together. And now the same healthcare workers who I'm in touch with, they
00:37:05.080don't they can't feed their children they can't even feed themselves they're still working night
00:37:11.560and day to look after their people in their community on empty stomach so um we have so
00:37:20.120much work to do i keep thinking about how um people ask me how do you keep going how do you
00:37:25.640have the energy what do you mean right like i i have a roof over my head i have food in front of
00:37:31.320of me. I have money to spend. I'm not the one with bombs dropping over my head. We have so much work
00:37:38.640to do to end the forms of complicity and active involvement that our companies in our backyards,
00:37:44.420our governments and states are so entrenched in the catastrophic suffering and extermination
00:37:53.260of an entire peoples and I think about what you know someone asked me a few
00:38:03.820days ago it's a question not I think for people who are tuning in but it's for a
00:38:09.100question other people who haven't acted despite knowing is how are you so
00:38:15.280comfortable with you know other people's catastrophic um suffering um how how are
00:38:25.800how are people living their lives and are so comfortable knowing what's happening in palestine
00:38:31.060and not doing anything about it um so i think that's that's that's where i end up is it is
00:38:40.360action it is solidarity it is um you know the the work of the flotillas but it's also the work of the
00:38:47.640the march but it's also um we have our own demonstrations and direct actions and marches
00:38:53.400here in ottawa there's um new divestment work that is happening um with our pension plans there's um
00:39:01.560divestment work within our own hospitals and you know so there's so much work to be done
00:39:05.640and then that's our responsibility to do like there's so many fronts that are worth fighting
00:39:13.980and and yeah we are we are we are not the ones to give up we we have a responsibility we have
00:39:26.620to keep going just my Palestinian healthcare worker colleagues they're going and they check
00:39:34.500in on me still and they you know and it's just like they're checking in on me the humanity of
00:39:42.120these people they're checking in on me wow you know it's as you're describing uh much of this
00:39:54.520it's it's also making me think about the disparities that exist within our own health
00:40:02.960care system here um obviously it's nowhere near the same but i i do think that given that it was
00:40:11.360just the national day for truth and reconciliation this week i know that you've studied the impact
00:40:18.240of colonial and structural determinants of health and just describing the impact of a colonial
00:40:26.000project on the health of children and other people um canada was born of a colonial project
00:40:34.000and the legacies of it continue to impact communities especially in the health care
00:40:39.120system to this day and i was wondering if you could maybe speak to that a little bit
00:40:44.720um you know to try to also bring this conversation home uh in that respect
00:40:51.840Absolutely. I studied the impacts of settler colonialism on health here on Turtle Island
00:41:03.360before I studied the health of Palestinians in Occupy Palestine. But it's because I studied
00:41:12.000the impacts of settler colonialism on Indigenous peoples, First Nations,